The 2020 Presidential Race

[exitspeed]

Like i said FEEL GOOD LEGISLATION

Virtue Signaling.

That and the identity politics is what the modern day Left is all about.

[Future240]

It would be impossible to round up all the guns in the US and prevent more from being illegally made and imported.

Have we stopped illegal importation of heroine, fentinal or cocain? It's also stupid easy to make guns. You'd create an overnight black market of barns, trailers and storage units converted into gun shops.


Excellent points.


Banning things has neve worked. It simply creates a violent black market. Not to mention the amount of police force, money (ie your taxes) on what would be an utter failure. The war on guns would fail just like the war on drugs has.



Now i am not saying we do nothing.


More intense background checks. I am fine with gun registrations like we do car. Nationwide carry with a gun license. Firearms are registered to you like cars are. When a sell between individuals are made, you transfer registration.


When it comes to mental illness perhaps we could implement a system where doctors flag individuals that have mental illness. That flag shows up in a gun database and before a person can purchase a firearm they have to be cleared by a doctor.


I am not saying any of these will/wont work, just spitballing. I think if both sides can be serious about guns we can get some thing actually accomplished



So can kids smoke weed if it's okay with their parents?

see prior response

[Future240]

SIDENOTE


My post with all the stats should say 4% not 2%. For reason Zilvia is tripping with editing posts.

[lewisfk]

Woooooow. This is shocking to hear people say you should need to serve to own a firearm. That is not what the 2nd amendment says nor should it.



The right of the people. And SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED.

You are not going to law abiding disarm US citizens. The facts about gun deaths verse ownership do not support such extreme measurements.

And also... https://www.instagram.com/tv/B1ZLrz5Hobf/?igshid=1xcy5h743rteh

I do not care about any document written in 1700s, that doesn't represent its population or has not been ratified! There is a segment of our population who lacks empathy and will not understand until a mass shootings directly affects them. A good guy with a gun idea, died in Parkland. In El Paso there were good guys in the parking lot, who fled the scene and did not help! If you want an assault weapon, serve this country! Do something: volunteer, mentor, start a non profit, Habitat for Humanity, or just listen to people who are suffering from these tragedies. I know someone will post that shootings involving assault weapons only make up a certain percentage of shootings, but the FBI stated this will become the new normal if we don't react and pass legislation!

[exitspeed]

I do not care about any document written in 1700s, that doesn't represent its population or has not been ratified! There is a segment of our population who lacks empathy and will not understand until a mass shootings directly affects them. A good guy with a gun idea, died in Parkland. In El Paso there were good guys in the parking lot, who fled the scene and did not help! If you want an assault weapon, serve this country! Do something: volunteer, mentor, start a non profit, Habitat for Humanity, or just listen to people who are suffering from these tragedies. I know someone will post that shootings involving assault weapons only make up a certain percentage of shootings, but the FBI stated this will become the new normal if we don't react and pass legislation!

If you don’t care, then go move to Canadia or Europe. Seems like a simple solution for you.

And Whoa whoa whoa...selective hearing. The OVERWHELMING amount of gun related murders are in low income cities across America, Milwaukee, Chicago, etc etc. These “mass shootings” are a small small fraction of gun deaths.

And yes there is a SMALL segment of people who lack empathy and commit a mass shooting. It just pails in comparison to the gun deaths every day around the country.

Now the mass shooting people, those are obvious mental health issues. You can not sure there and tell me someone capable of mowing down a bunch of people in public is a mentally stable person. They aren’t. Period. PERIOD. There’s so much defection when mental health is brought up versus new gun laws. It’s sad.

The shootings that happen every day are a social economic issue that needs to be addressed. The only problem is virtually EVERY SINGLE CITY that has a murder problem is they are ran and have been ran by Democrats for the last 50-100 years plus. And while gun deaths are going down, in these cities it’s still commonplace. Every single day I wake up and listen to the news report on multiple shootings and murders. Milwaukee has been ran by Democrats for 100+ years. Shit ain’t getting better.

There’s also a lack of empathy and regard for human life in these cities though. For instance in Milwaukee we also have an EXTREMELY serious problem of reckless driving causing death. Like really really fucking bad. Right along the story of the shootings every day is a story or multiple stories of people driving so crazy and fast (passing in curb lanes, excessive speeding, running red lights) that they crash and kill themselves or someone else. Literally every single day. This just started over the last 10 or so years.

No regard or empathy. It’s a social problem. Not a gun problem.

[Future240]

https://www.law.nyu.edu/sites/default/files/upload_documents/WHY%20BAN%20ASSAULT%20WEAPONS.pdf

Good read.

I implore those wanting to ban “assault” rifles to give it a read.

[midnight zenki]

That was a good read Future240 and your right just assault weapons is not the answer, throw handguns into the permitted category under my original thoughts in terms of re-legislating the 2nd amendment along with universal background checks, this should reduce the number of mentally unstable people from obtaining firearms while still accomplishing the opening statement of the amendment, "A well regulated militia".

To be clear, I am not calling for abolishing the 2nd amendment and never have in my posts, shift out of Fox News mode and please understand that. You know what would FEEL GOOD is not being among the 440 people killed in the stat you cited so callously equating those lives to acceptable casualties in comparison to traffic deaths.

Exitspeed: You didn't provide any response to the last time your gun stopped a crime or prevented an invasion

-The self defense argument is weak and surprise, misrepresented by the NRA https://takingnote.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/04/15/defensive-gun-use/ Only about 259 justifiable gun homicides (self defense) when we lose an estimated 40,000 people a year to car crashes https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-02-13/traffic-deaths-in-u-s-exceed-40-000-for-third-straight-year. Using Future240's previously stated logic I'll gladly trade the 259 lives because I compared that number to an unrelated statistic, sucks to be you.

-No ones talking about the role guns play in suicides (waiting for the but, but, they would use fertilizer bombs or knifes bullshit retort) https://afsp.org/about-suicide/suicide-statistics/

[lewisfk]

If you don’t care, then go move to Canadia or Europe. Seems like a simple solution for you.

And Whoa whoa whoa...selective hearing. The OVERWHELMING amount of gun related murders are in low income cities across America, Milwaukee, Chicago, etc etc. These “mass shootings” are a small small fraction of gun deaths.

And yes there is a SMALL segment of people who lack empathy and commit a mass shooting. It just pails in comparison to the gun deaths every day around the country.

Now the mass shooting people, those are obvious mental health issues. You can not sure there and tell me someone capable of mowing down a bunch of people in public is a mentally stable person. They aren’t. Period. PERIOD. There’s so much defection when mental health is brought up versus new gun laws. It’s sad.

The shootings that happen every day are a social economic issue that needs to be


addressed. The only problem is virtually EVERY SINGLE CITY that has a murder problem is they are ran and have been ran by Democrats for the last 50-100 years plus. And while gun deaths are going down, in these cities it’s still commonplace. Every single day I wake up and listen to the news report on multiple shootings and murders. Milwaukee has been ran by Democrats for 100+ years. Shit ain’t getting better.

There’s also a lack of empathy and regard for human life in these cities though. For instance in Milwaukee we also have an EXTREMELY serious problem of reckless driving causing death. Like really really fucking bad. Right along the story of the shootings every day is a story or multiple stories of people driving so crazy and fast (passing in curb lanes, excessive speeding, running red lights) that they crash and kill themselves or someone else. Literally every single day. This just started over the last 10 or so years.

No regard or empathy. It’s a social problem. Not a gun problem.


Sorry bro, to busy fighting for Freedom and Democracycy! Plus when those documents we're written I was considered 3/5 a person! Have you served? Don't tell anybody to go to any country! I know mass shooting do not make up the bulk of shootings in the USA. If the trend continued it could! That's what the FBI released! Crime is higher in urban areas due to systemic racism and a thing called red lining forcing minorities to live in one area without jobs or infrastructure. Don't call someone out if u don't know the facts, that's why I linked FBI crime statistics and NIBS.:duh:

[lewisfk]

Everybody is crying mental health is the issue, I say bullshit! There are thousands of men and women who serve this country who suffer from PTSD and they are not committing mass shootings. Some of these individuals are committing suicide! Don't use mental illness to justify or rationalize the actions of demons. Hate groups are responsible for the majority of the mass shooting that sparked this debate.

[Corbic]

To be clear, I am not calling for abolishing the 2nd amendment and never have in my posts, shift out of Fox News mode and please understand that. You know what would FEEL GOOD is not being among the 440 people killed in the stat you cited so callously equating those lives to acceptable casualties in comparison to traffic deaths.

If someone wants to commit mass murder, they don't need guns. So the argument that infringing on my rights and placing me in danger will prevent mass murder is idiotic.

[midnight zenki]

If someone wants to commit mass murder, they don't need guns. So the argument that infringing on my rights and placing me in danger will prevent mass murder is idiotic.

That’s just it though, your not in danger. If you want to be safe, stop driving. The gun just makes you FEEL GOOD.

Do you even read bro?

The quantity of non-gun mass causality attacks you posted are statistically insignificant. Guns are significant in comparison per year. You can’t legislate prediction of the future but you can address the commonality in the equation.

[Corbic]

That’s just it though, your not in danger. If you want to be safe, stop driving. The gun just makes you FEEL GOOD.

Do you even read bro?

Question is, do you?

Fact Sheet: Guns Save Lives

A. Guns save more lives than they take; prevent more injuries than they inflict

* Guns used 2.5 million times a year in self-defense. Law-abiding citizens use guns to defend themselves against criminals as many as 2.5 million times every year — or about 6,850 times a day. [1] This means that each year, firearms are used more than 80 times more often to protect the lives of honest citizens than to take lives. [2]

* Of the 2.5 million times citizens use their guns to defend themselves every year, the overwhelming majority merely brandish their gun or fire a warning shot to scare off their attackers. Less than 8% of the time, a citizen will kill or wound his/her attacker.[3]

* As many as 200,000 women use a gun every year to defend themselves against sexual abuse.[4]

* Even anti-gun Clinton researchers concede that guns are used 1.5 million times annually for self-defense. According to the Clinton Justice Department, there are as many as 1.5 million cases of self-defense every year. The National Institute of Justice published this figure in 1997 as part of “Guns in America” — a study which was authored by noted anti-gun criminologists Philip Cook and Jens Ludwig.[5]

* Armed citizens kill more crooks than do the police. Citizens shoot and kill at least twice as many criminals as police do every year (1,527 to 606).[6] And readers of Newsweek learned that “only 2 percent of civilian shootings involved an innocent person mistakenly identified as a criminal. The ‘error rate’ for the police, however, was 11 percent, more than five times as high.”[7]

* Handguns are the weapon of choice for self-defense. Citizens use handguns to protect themselves over 1.9 million times a year. [8] Many of these self-defense handguns could be labeled as “Saturday Night Specials.”

B. Concealed carry laws help reduce crime

* Nationwide: one-half million self-defense uses. Every year, as many as one-half million citizens defend themselves with a firearm away from home. [9] * Concealed carry laws are dropping crime rates across the country. A comprehensive national study determined in 1996 that violent crime fell after states made it legal to carry concealed firearms. The results of the study showed:

* States which passed concealed carry laws reduced their murder rate by 8.5%, rapes by 5%, aggravated assaults by 7% and robbery by 3%; [10] and * If those states not having concealed carry laws had adopted such laws in 1992, then approximately 1,570 murders, 4,177 rapes, 60,000 aggravated assaults and over 11,000 robberies would have been avoided yearly.[11]

* Vermont: one of the safest five states in the country. In Vermont, citizens can carry a firearm without getting permission… without paying a fee… or without going through any kind of government-imposed waiting period. And yet for ten years in a row, Vermont has remained one of the top-five, safest states in the union — having three times received the “Safest State Award.”[12]

* Florida: concealed carry helps slash the murder rates in the state. In the fifteen years following the passage of Florida’s concealed carry law in 1987, over 800,000 permits to carry firearms were issued to people in the state. [13] FBI reports show that the homicide rate in Florida, which in 1987 was much higher than the national average, fell 52% during that 15-year period — thus putting the Florida rate below the national average. [14]

* Do firearms carry laws result in chaos? No. Consider the case of Florida. A citizen in the Sunshine State is far more likely to be attacked by an alligator than to be assaulted by a concealed carry holder.

1. During the first fifteen years that the Florida law was in effect, alligator attacks outpaced the number of crimes committed by carry holders by a 229 to 155 margin.

2. And even the 155 “crimes” committed by concealed carry permit holders are somewhat misleading as most of these infractions resulted from Floridians who accidentally carried their firearms into restricted areas, such as an airport. [15]

C. Criminals avoid armed citizens

* Kennesaw, GA. In 1982, this suburb of Atlanta passed a law requiring heads of households to keep at least one firearm in the house. The residential burglary rate subsequently dropped 89% in Kennesaw, compared to the modest 10.4% drop in Georgia as a whole. [16]

* Ten years later (1991), the residential burglary rate in Kennesaw was still 72% lower than it had been in 1981, before the law was passed. [17]

* Nationwide. Statistical comparisons with other countries show that burglars in the United States are far less apt to enter an occupied home than their foreign counterparts who live in countries where fewer civilians own firearms. Consider the following rates showing how often a homeowner is present when a burglar strikes:

* Homeowner occupancy rate in the gun control countries of Great Britain, Canada and Netherlands: 45% (average of the three countries); and, * Homeowner occupancy rate in the United States: 12.7%. [18] Rapes averted when women carry or use firearms for protection

* Orlando, FL. In 1966-67, the media highly publicized a safety course which taught Orlando women how to use guns. The result: Orlando’s rape rate dropped 88% in 1967, whereas the rape rate remained constant in the rest of Florida and the nation. [19]

* Nationwide. In 1979, the Carter Justice Department found that of more than 32,000 attempted rapes, 32% were actually committed. But when a woman was armed with a gun or knife, only 3% of the attempted rapes were actually successful. [20] Justice Department study:

* 3/5 of felons polled agreed that “a criminal is not going to mess around with a victim he knows is armed with a gun.” [21]

* 74% of felons polled agreed that “one reason burglars avoid houses when people are at home is that they fear being shot during the crime.”[22] * 57% of felons polled agreed that “criminals are more worried about meeting an armed victim than they are about running into the police.” [23]



The quantity of non-gun mass causality attacks you posted are statistically insignificant. Guns are significant in comparison per year. You can’t legislate prediction of the future but you can address the commonality in the equation.

The quantity of mass gun attacks you posted is statistically insignificant.

Maybe if you want to make a dent in crime, ban Black People. I mean they are 13% of the population but are responsible for pretty much half of all Murder and crime... Then we toss in poverty, literacy, obesity, life expectancy, infant mortality... And boom, the US beats out all those Scandanavia countries you leftist nut hug.

*hard eye roll*

And for "just makes you feel good"

I'm not talking about my personnel safety just from criminals but also the aggragate state.

It can and will happen again. The worse thing to happen from WW2 has been turning the Nazis into some sort of abhorrent super villian and Holocaust as the worst human disaster ever. It covers up the mass murders before, during and since the war, committed all over the world.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190906/80bc8ea7f851ef2c1eed506e20644244.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190906/88e6f491025905a92d5c4daa7c6f6327.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190906/bac7bfe2795455a290a6f8f3b60356e2.jpg


300 million civilian owned guns and open communication makes that a bit harder. Which is why China created the great Fire Wall so they can just murder, intern, re-educate and harvest organs to their delight.

[lewisfk]

^^^I need a citation page for this post! This why the FBI started NIBS, PRO Gun groups have inflated the numbers for years to spread fear and prop up gun sales.


https://www.npr.org/2018/04/13/602143823/how-often-do-people-use-guns-in-self-defense

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41488081

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/firearms-research/gun-threats-and-self-defense-gun-use-2/

[midnight zenki]

Question is, do you?

Fact Sheet: Guns Save Live


The quantity of mass gun attacks you posted is statistically insignificant.

Maybe if you want to make a dent in crime, ban Black People.I mean they are 13% of the population but are responsible for pretty much half of all Murder and crime... Then we toss in poverty, literacy, obesity, life expectancy, infant mortality... And boom, the US beats out all those Scandanavia countries you leftist nut hug.

*hard eye roll*

And for "just makes you feel good"

I'm not talking about my personnel safety just from criminals but also the aggragate state.

It can and will happen again. The worse thing to happen from WW2 has been turning the Nazis into some sort of abhorrent super villian and Holocaust as the worst human disaster ever. It covers up the mass murders before, during and since the war, committed all over the world.


300 million civilian owned guns and open communication makes that a bit harder. Which is why China created the great Fire Wall so they can just murder, intern, re-educate and harvest organs to their delight.

Your right and people like you in this country are most likely to perpetrate it.

[lewisfk]

WTF Corbic?

Maybe if you want to make a dent in crime, ban Black People. I mean they are 13% of the population but are responsible for pretty much half of all Murder and crime... Then we toss in poverty, literacy, obesity, life expectancy, infant mortality... And boom, the US beats out all those Scandanavia countries you leftist nut hug.

Hold the fuck up! U might want to read through the thread! I posted actual crime stats for 2018. A smaller group of individuals will always have higher percentage, but by body count White People get the Gold Medal!

[S14rebuild]

That's the thing though. We do have certain forms of socialism, lets call them traits.


Bernie and company seem to want to transform the country into a primary socialist one. They called billionaires immoral. To the right, a lot of moderates and even some of those on the left that seems idiotic.


The ceo of star bucks made a great point on this. He took a mom and pop coffee store to an international brand and is a billionaire because of it. It is literally the American dream yet some of the loudest voices on the left say he is immoral because of it.


Another thing is the identity politics. The dems seem to be turning into the party of keyboard sjw's.


This for instance
https://www.politico.com/story/2019/05/17/lgbtq-anti-discrimination-legislation-1452388


A bill which would allow trans females to compete in womens sports. I believe this to be unfair to bio women as SHOCKER these trans women are shattering records.


https://www.aol.com/article/news/2019/05/01/transgender-weightlifter-mary-gregory-smashes-womens-world-records/23720231/


I would think most people would find issue with this. Yet EVERY SINGLE DEMOCRAT voted yes on this bill.


I found myself pushed to the right by standing still as the dems in some areas of went so far left.

That is 100% the truth that ive come across. Alot of people have said the exact same thing to me.

[S14rebuild]

I do not care about any document written in 1700s, that doesn't represent its population or has not been ratified! There is a segment of our population who lacks empathy and will not understand until a mass shootings directly affects them. A good guy with a gun idea, died in Parkland. In El Paso there were good guys in the parking lot, who fled the scene and did not help! If you want an assault weapon, serve this country! Do something: volunteer, mentor, start a non profit, Habitat for Humanity, or just listen to people who are suffering from these tragedies. I know someone will post that shootings involving assault weapons only make up a certain percentage of shootings, but the FBI stated this will become the new normal if we don't react and pass legislation!

Again with ignoring facts, and just beleve your own opinions...

[lewisfk]

^^ I'm not ignoring facts, I'm actually speaking facts. Bring your facts to the party, just don't quote somebody with no logical rebuttal or facts!

https://ucr.fbi.gov/nibrs/2017

Once again I have to drop facts! Unless there is a better source for Crime Stats than the FBI please post their information in this thread. White people made up more than half off all crime committed in the US while African Americans made 27 percent and the rest were Hispanics and Asian or other!

[Corbic]

Your right and people like you in this country are most likely to perpetrate it.Can't make up this shit.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190906/49e5fbea0f32e028a72e99cf5eb0db96.jpg

[S14rebuild]

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/former-democratic-congressman-shooters-kill-thousands-with-automatic-rifles-using-high-capacity-ammunition



I literly have nothing to say....the stupidity

[lewisfk]

Yes, his comments are stupid, there was no need to read in its entirety! I want health debate with facts, don't post crime stats if there not from a credible source.

[S14rebuild]

Yes, his comments are stupid, there was no need to read in its entirety! I want health debate with facts, don't post crime stats if there not from a credible source.

No....u want only ur found stats..

This is your democratic party talking stupidity out their mouths...defend it!

How can they be ones to try an infringe on my rights but dont have an ounce of knowledge about the subject.

[lewisfk]

No....u want only ur found stats..

This is your democratic party talking stupidity out their mouths...defend it!

How can they be ones to try an infringe on my rights but dont have an ounce of knowledge about the subject.

Really? The Republican party is a hot dumpster fire. There are actual Republicans running against the POTUS. One jack ass reporter doesn't represent an entire party, but the POTUS sharpie magic on a national weather map to win an argument is priceless!

[S14rebuild]

Really? The Republican party is a hot dumpster fire. There are actual Republicans running against the POTUS. One jack ass reporter doesn't represent an entire party, but the POTUS sharpie magic on a national weather map to win an argument is priceless!

Well i guess you and joe biden will make the world safe with ur dna and thumb print guns.

[lewisfk]

Whoever said I wanted fingerprint enabled guns? I actually enjoy my AR platform guns, and actually sold one on this forum. I will be acquiring 300 blackout in a few weeks, bought from a licensed FFL dealer!

[S14rebuild]

But youll vote for someone who wants to remove all the guns from the american people? Come on...this is halirous

[lewisfk]

I never said I would vote for that, read through the thread MR. Hilarious. I'm actually holding out for a Republican who is a moderate to challenge the POTUS. If the POTUS goes unchallenged then I will vote for the lesser of two evils! It takes more than a sitting President to take away gun rights!

[midnight zenki]

Can't make up this shit.

Dude, my proposal wouldn’t take your gun if you could pass a background check, aren’t mentally unstable or if you served in the military. Why you so upset?

[Corbic]

Dude, my proposal wouldn’t take your gun if you could pass a background check, aren’t mentally unstable or if you served in the military. Why you so upset?"shall not infringe"

Can we do the same for Voting?

Also, what does "mental unstable" mean? Who decides that? Are Gays, Transgender and Communists considered mentally unstable? Victims of abuse?

Why would veterans get an automatic exemption? They don't suffer from mental illness? They don't commit crimes?

I also already pass a background check for every firearm I've purchased, so you got one out of three.

Oh, also on the check, they ask if I'm mentally unstable... So we already do 2 of your 3. So you just want to green light any vet to get a gun?


Have you ever bought, owned or fired a firearm?

[Future240]

That was a good read Future240 and your right just assault weapons is not the answer, throw handguns into the permitted category under my original thoughts in terms of re-legislating the 2nd amendment along with universal background checks, this should reduce the number of mentally unstable people from obtaining firearms while still accomplishing the opening statement of the amendment, "A well regulated militia".

To be clear, I am not calling for abolishing the 2nd amendment and never have in my posts, shift out of Fox News mode and please understand that. You know what would FEEL GOOD is not being among the 440 people killed in the stat you cited so callously equating those lives to acceptable casualties in comparison to traffic deaths. ]

You say I am being callous.

I implore you to read a short story called the equation. Or at least The synopsis
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cold_Equations

I am not saying I do not care about those 440 people. What I am saying is that When making legislation I think we should look at the bigger picture. Versus the feel-good type of legislation that is directly in front of us. No one likes mass shootings. No one like people being killed. But if you look at the amount of mass shootings in the amount of people actually dying by these guns you will see that it is not as big a problem as the media likes to make it out to be. That is not my opinion that is strictly with the data says.

if you go further the data that Cornic posted shows more people are saved by these guns ( then more people are killed which is why I brought up the cold equation. If you did not read the synopsis essentially a woman hasn’t make a choice of either dying herself one person or killing an entire colony full of sick people plus the pilot she’s on the ship with.

Criminals will not care about your gun laws. Criminals will still find a way to get around gun laws. How many felons are caught with them to this day even though in most states feelings cannot purchase firearms. Ghost guns do exist. So simply banning guns or so-called assault rifles from the population is not a viable solution. Not even to mention where with this buy back money come from or how would it be enforced with the millions upon millions of guns that are in United States and the limited police force.

With the police have to go door-to-door to search homes for guns? Or would it be like drugs where ithe police get a tip or probable cause they can pull someone over to search for guns. That would lead to considerably more people incarcerated for having a banned item. The fallout from this is you would instantly create a black market guns. If you want to see what a black market does for a product that has a high demand see the war on drugs or to go back even further what happen when they made alcohol illegal.


Now more intense background checks I can get behind hell even though the more extreme in good registration with a gun license I can get behind training classes I can get behind closing gun show loophole I can get behind making private sales have to be documented and register I can get behind. These are feasible solution that could help slow down the number of shootings but it will honestly be unlikely to fully stop them.

As CORBIC pointed out earlier when people want to commit mass killings against other people if they don’t have guns they will simply use something else will it be a bomb or knives as he posted in those articles above.

Mass violence is not a gun problem it is a people problem. By better managing our social economic way of living in having resources for those who feel desperate her loss suicidal or otherwise mentally unstable I think that would have a greater impact on shootings then banning guns.

[Corbic]

With the police have to go door-to-door to search homes for guns? Or would it be like drugs where ithe police get a tip or probable cause they can pull someone over to search for guns. That would lead to considerably more people incarcerated for having a banned item. The fallout from this is you would instantly create a black market guns. If you want to see what a black market does for a product that has a high demand see the war on drugs or to go back even further what happen when they made alcohol illegal.


Kinda like when the Government murdered a man's Wife and Child?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruby_Ridge

Oh and let's not forget this gem of a American History, thanks Bill Clinton and Janet Reno... Did it feel good flexing those Federal muscles?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waco_siege


Also...

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190906/91ad7ec9d83b07ba73de52c540dcabcf.jpg

Now more intense background checks I can get behind

Like what? What does that even mean?


hell even though the more extreme in good registration with a gun license I can get behind training classes

So we'll have more proffecient mass shooters?
Training Classes only work to prevent accidents, not crime.

I can get behind closing gun show loophole

Oh please tell about this mythical Micheal Moore fable of a "gun show loop hole", how does that work, do tell...


I can get behind making private sales have to be documented and register I can get behind.

Because that solves what problem?

These are feasible solution that could help slow down the number of shootings but it will honestly be unlikely to fully stop them.

Please show me, which mass shooting any of that would have slowed down or stopped. Not a single one.

[exitspeed]

https://www.nydailynews.com/snyde/ny-isaiah-washington-republican-trump-supporter-greys-anatomy-20190905-xcvgzfalzrfwjgr4juthvboct4-story.html

People are getting deal woke folks. With big names like Isiah Washington coming out in support for the President it’s only going to snowball until 2020.

[Corbic]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190906/5dafcf4ee233af4e413c84f4aec1d7cf.jpg

[midnight zenki]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190906/5dafcf4ee233af4e413c84f4aec1d7cf.jpg

Take your memes and rants over to 8chan unless you plan on contributing credible information with sources to back it up other than a "google search" or twitter commentary.

[Corbic]

Take your memes and rants over to 8chan unless you plan on contributing credible information with sources to back it up other than a "google search" or twitter commentary.#leftcantmeme

[Future240]

Kinda like when the Government murdered a man's Wife and Child?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruby_Ridge

Oh and let's not forget this gem of a American History, thanks Bill Clinton and Janet Reno... Did it feel good flexing those Federal muscles?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waco_siege


Also...





Like what? What does that even mean?




So we'll have more proffecient mass shooters?
Training Classes only work to prevent accidents, not crime.



Oh please tell about this mythical Micheal Moore fable of a "gun show loop hole", how does that work, do tell...




Because that solves what problem?



Please show me, which mass shooting any of that would have slowed down or stopped. Not a single one.



Ya know. Im will real with you Corbic. I cannot answer a single one of these questions.


This is why real discussion is good when it comes to guns. Corbic questioned my (admittedly borrowed from the left) talking points and I could not come up with any real answers. The only thing i could get was
https://lawcenter.giffords.org/gun-laws/policy-areas/background-checks/universal-background-checks/


about the background check loophole.


Now that being said, I bought a gun from a gun show and I had to endure a background check so I cannot speak to that.






As I sit here and think about it, the gun debate seems to be able to be summed up by


Criminals gone criminal and banning things from law abiding citizens won't do shit.

[S14rebuild]

Lol goverment buy back "program"

First it will be a MANDATORY buy back....

Second where would this money come from that theyd pay me to turn my firearms in?(i never would)?

[Corbic]

about the background check loophole.

Now that being said, I bought a gun from a gun show and I had to endure a background check so I cannot speak to that.

As I sit here and think about it, the gun debate seems to be able to be summed up by

Criminals gone criminal and banning things from law abiding citizens won't do shit.

It's not a "loop hole", the idea of person to person sale has been around forever. It makes no sense that to pay fees and paper work when your father wants to give you his prized pistol or you want to trade a 45 for your brother's 9mm or your best friend is hard up for cash so you offer to buy his AR.

Go to any gunshow and there will be an FFL there doing transfers for $5-25. Nobody wants the liability of setting up a booth and getting blasted later on with a lawsuit becuase they unwittingly sold to a criminal.

You can't do cross state person to person sales, and once again, no one with common sense is going to sell to a stranger a pistol for cash at the Walmart parking lot.

Some FFLs work as a broker, $20 each way. You drop the gun off, the guy picks it up and does the paper work whenever and leaves the cash with the FFL.

Anyone looking for a Walmart parking lot deal is going to do it whether it's legal or not.

[Corbic]

Lol goverment buy back "program"

First it will be a MANDATORY buy back....

Second where would this money come from that theyd pay me to turn my firearms in?(i never would)?My dog ate all of mine. Also those cosmoline 48" sealed bags I bought on ebay are for car parts... but I accidently tossed them. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[S14rebuild]

It's not a "loop hole", the idea of person to person sale has been around forever. It makes no sense that to pay fees and paper work when your father wants to give you his prized pistol or you want to trade a 45 for your brother's 9mm or your best friend is hard up for cash so you offer to buy his AR.

Go to any gunshow and there will be an FFL there doing transfers for $5-25. Nobody wants the liability of setting up a booth and getting blasted later on with a lawsuit becuase they unwittingly sold to a criminal.

You can't do cross state person to person sales, and once again, no one with common sense is going to sell to a stranger a pistol for cash at the Walmart parking lot.

Some FFLs work as a broker, $20 each way. You drop the gun off, the guy picks it up and does the paper work whenever and leaves the cash with the FFL.

Anyone looking for a Walmart parking lot deal is going to do it whether it's legal or not.



Excellent info. This exact statement has been presented over and over again, and it falls on deaf ears...or i should say since it doesnt suit the "ban all guns" format its just brushed away and ignored.

[lewisfk]

With all the rhetoric that's so far left and right it makes my head hurt. Facts people, facts. The Democratic Party wants to ban assault styles weapons, but the gun lobby is a wing of the Republican Party and will not let that happen! This scenario will play out like a hamster in a hamster wheel. The best thing to do is go after unlicensed gun sales, tighter background screenings, up the age of purchase to 21 / 25 and a federal red flag law. Red Flag could have stopped Sandy Hook. The Air Force updating the FBI database for members with a dishonorable discharge, or bad REF Codes could of prevented the Summit Springs shooting. That's two mass shootings that could have been averted if we had stronger and better laws. Who disagrees and why? All military beaches need to update the FBI databases just not the Air Force.

[S14rebuild]

Wtf is "assualt style weapons"? A huge issue here is Democrats not refining that term. To them what looks scary is a weapon of war and an assualt weapon.

A fucking hyundai tiburon could look fast to some people doesnt mean its a racecar.

And dont get me started on the red flag laws.

Hell some simple snowflake on the forum could be butt hurt about my comments tell im a firearm owner...make one simple phone call and bam...life turned upside down.

Again crimals will continue to break the law no matter what. These laws ur so pushing to have will only strip, hurt and cost lives of the innocent law abiding citizens.

The push back the dems are seeing is because common folks can see thru the bullshit..... handguns cause more deaths why not try and ban those? More inner city gun deaths, why not try to right that?

Stated over and over..their not after JUST "assult style rifles". That is only the beginning. Then they will make reasons togo after other guns..till theres none left. Then what now weve been stripped of our 2nd amendment, maybe theyll go after the 1st.

If u want no guns, then send the police and the miltary out with sticks and stones....cause were all in this great country together, what you have, im no diffrence...

[lewisfk]

An assault weapon is any weapon model of military weapon or capable of firing in rapid succession without reloading.

Red flag laws came about due to the large amount of domestic violence and crimes of passion. Cruz was on several forums talking about committing a mass shooting and had history of violence. If the Flordia Police Department listen to the FBI and arrested him there would be no Parkland. Fellow members of the forum turned him in because of his insane statements.

[silverarrow27]

...or capable of firing in rapid succession without reloading.


So basically ANY gun with a clip or mag including revolvers all are considered "assault weapons" then if that's the definition Democrats are using. Even shotguns can and are capable of firing in rapid succession without reloading.

[S14rebuild]

so basically any gun with a clip or mag including revolvers all are considered "assault weapons" then if that's the definition democrats are using. Even shotguns can and are capable of firing in rapid succession without reloading.

bingo!

.........

[Future240]

An assault weapon is any weapon model of military weapon or capable of firing in rapid succession without reloading.




Legit question. Do you understand how guns work? This definition is so broad it just descrived almost every gun except bolt action rifles, muzzle loaders and single shell shot guns.


An automatic firearm continuously fires rounds (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cartridge_(firearms)) as long as the trigger (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trigger_(firearms)) is pressed or held and there is ammunition (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ammunition) in the magazine (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magazine_(firearms))/chamber (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chamber_(firearms)). In contrast, a semi-automatic firearm (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semi-automatic_firearm) fires one round with each individual trigger-pull.[1] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_firearm#cite_note-Carter2012-1)
Big difference.




Let me ask dropping the assault definition are you ok with guns like this


https://www.ruger.com/products/mini14RanchRifle/images/5801.jpg

[lewisfk]

Legit question. Do you understand how guns work? This definition is so broad it just descrived almost every gun except bolt action rifles, muzzle loaders and single shell shot guns.



Big difference.




Let me ask dropping the assault definition are you ok with guns like this


https://www.ruger.com/products/mini14RanchRifle/images/5801.jpg

That's not a broad answer. Gun manufactures literal went to Congress to lobby for the sales of the full automatic/military version. Congress said no to the sales of that version and compromised with the semi automatic version. There was an event that leaded up to that decision. California added the bullets version to law a few years later and then band them all together, after the famous bank robbery we're the police was out gun and the culprits had body armor. Congress coined the name assault rifle and classified all guns with similar attributes, like large capacity magazine etc.

The Gun Control Act 1968.

https://www.thoughtco.com/us-gun-control-timeline-3963620

[S14rebuild]

That's not a broad answer. Gun manufactures literal went to Congress to lobby for the sales of the full automatic/military version. Congress said no to the sales of that version and compromised with the semi automatic version. There was an event that leaded up to that decision. California added the bullets version to law a few years later and then band them all together, after the famous bank robbery we're the police was out gun and the culprits had body armor. Congress coined the name assault rifle and classified all guns with similar attributes, like large capacity magazine etc.

The Gun Control law 1968.

Never seen somone twist words so much on a very basic question....

Dont worry about the picture that was shown and asked for a reply....

[lewisfk]

Legit question. Do you understand how guns work? This definition is so broad it just descrived almost every gun except bolt action rifles, muzzle loaders and single shell shot guns.



Big difference.




Let me ask dropping the assault definition are you ok with guns like this


https://www.ruger.com/products/mini14RanchRifle/images/5801.jpg

That's not a broad answer. Gun manufactures literal went to Congress to lobby for the sales of the full automatic/military version. Congress said no to the sales of that version and compromised with the semi automatic version. There was an event that leaded up to that decision. California added the bullets version to law in 1999, after the famous bank robbery we're the police was out gun and the culprits had body armor. Congress coined the name assault rifle and classified all guns with similar attributes, like large-capacity magazine, and rate of fire etc.

[lewisfk]

Never seen somone twist words so much on a very basic question....

Dont worry about the picture that was shown and asked for a reply....

I didn't twist any words. You asked a question and I replied. You make the argument that my answer is to vague, but that's the answer Congress gave. I'm not for a ban on assault weapons. I only advocate for responsible use, but in a previous post I stated that I would be all for it if the Republicans will not debate or come up with response that would curb mass shootings.

[S14rebuild]

: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Ben Franklin


The issue is mass shootings are not happening like the democrats are protraying them tobe. They are using fear to push the Merican people into their submission. That is all.... to use the term mass shooting and define it by an attack with a firearm when 3 or more people ar injured is bullshit. Sooo when a gang shooting happens and 4 people are shot...that now is a mass shooting...

Thats just plan fucking stupid. They say common sense blaha blahh...but these have got to be the dumbest fuks ever.

[lewisfk]

The FBI has been categorizing mass shootings of 4 or more for years. The reason it's getting politicize is due to the age of the victims, location, and the ethnicity of the shooter and victims. Gang violence has gone down as a whole, but certain cities just can't get right! Chicago, D.C., New Orleans, and a few others. Most of these cities have a large Organized Crime (Mobs) that fuel the drug trade and violence. Most criminals in Chicago travel to Indiana to buy their guns, because of they're poor background checks and waiting periods. Indiana also doesn't require people to have a FFL license to sell guns to out of state individuals. Louisiana would not allow me to buy a handgun because I was from Texas without a Louisiana proof of residence. Even though I was military and resided on the base. I could of purchased from a none dealer without FFL license. This individual didn't even ask to see my license, just sign a bill of sale. The bill of sale did have two line sentence about not being a felon, but that was it.

[Future240]

That's not a broad answer. Gun manufactures literal went to Congress to lobby for the sales of the full automatic/military version. Congress said no to the sales of that version and compromised with the semi automatic version. There was an event that leaded up to that decision. California added the bullets version to law in 1999, after the famous bank robbery we're the police was out gun and the culprits had body armor. Congress coined the name assault rifle and classified all guns with similar attributes, like large-capacity magazine, and rate of fire etc.





Uhhhhhh



The term assault rifle is generally attributed to Adolf Hitler, who, for propaganda purposes, used the German word Sturmgewehr (which translates to "assault rifle") as the new name for the MP43, subsequently known as the Sturmgewehr 44 or StG 44.[6][8][9][10][11][12][13][14]









I am guessing you mean





Drawing from federal and state law definitions, the term assault weapon refers primarily to semi-automatic rifles, pistols, and shotguns that are able to accept detachable magazines and possess one or more other features.[2][10][11] Some jurisdictions define revolving cylinder shotguns as assault weapons.[12][13] Legislative definitions do not include fully automatic weapons, which are regulated separately as Title II weapons under federal law.[14][n 1] A key defining law was the now-defunct Federal Assault Weapons Ban of 1994.[14] At that time, the United States Department of Justice said, "In general, assault weapons are semiautomatic firearms with a large magazine of ammunition that were designed and configured for rapid fire and combat use."[3]

Common attributes used in legislative definitions of assault weapons include:

Semi-automatic firearm capable of accepting a detachable magazine[11][14]
Folding or telescoping (collapsible) stock,[14] which reduces the overall length of the firearm[16]
A pistol grip that protrudes beneath the action of the weapon[14]
Bayonet lug,[14] which allows the mounting of a bayonet
Threaded barrel, which can accept devices such as a flash suppressor, Suppressor,[14] compensator or muzzle brake
Grenade launcher[14]
Barrel shroud, which prevents burning of shooter's arm or hand as a safety device.[citation needed]
Dictionary definitions vary from legal definitions. Dictionary.com defines "assault weapon" as "any of various automatic and semiautomatic military firearms utilizing an intermediate-power cartridge, designed for individual use."[17] Merriam-Webster's online definition is "any of various automatic or semiautomatic firearms; especially: assault rifle."[18]





Like I said, broad. Depending on jurisdiction just about anything can be an assault weapon.

[Corbic]

Never seen somone twist words so much on a very basic question....

Dont worry about the picture that was shown and asked for a reply....It's why I blocked him. He's an endless spout of bullshit and lies. There is literally nothing true in his post.

I bet the fuck head has no idea what a Sturmgewehr is, let alone means.

[lewisfk]

Future I actually rephrased that paragraph because I have a shitty phone that times out on me! The Tommy gun and organizes crime lead the ban on fully automatic weapons, and I actually posted the Gun Act. In your long post you stated detachable magazine and high capacity, sounds familiar. I never said my definition is spot on from Webster dictionary. Please read the National Fire Arms Act 1934, Valentine's massacre of 1929. Gun Control Act 1968. I don't know how Hilter got in this, but thanks for that extra info!

[lewisfk]

It's why I blocked him. He's an endless spout of bullshit and lies. There is literally nothing true in his post.

I bet the fuck head has no idea what a Sturmgewehr is, let alone means.

Thanks for the compliment since you never post anything but personal feelings and hardly add facts. :rimshot:

What gun reforms do you approve of, let's start there!

[S14rebuild]

Thanks for the compliment since you never post anything but personal feelings and hardly add facts. :rimshot:

What gun reforms do you approve of, let's start there!



This is tiring. You copy and paste info that still doesnt answer questions.

Ban ar15s and ak47s but allow other weapons that fire the same caliber bullet. How the fuk does that make sense?

Ban ar15s and ak47s even though more deaths are caused from hand guns

Hell more people are killed in car accidents.

But NONE of those FACTS matter to the Democrats and for the sake of this thread you.

Every statement youve posted ive come back with clear information retaining to it and a solid rebuttal. Youve only opy and paste info off of other sites. Time and time again you kipped over simple questions asked to you and only attacked back at other comments..makes me think when are you running for the democratic party leader?

[lewisfk]

Once again I never said ban anything! I asked how you would solve or make it harder to commit mass shooting. What I posted was a significant events in the U.S. that prompted the many laws we have today. Example Valentine Masacare of 1929. I posted what I wanted done, red flag laws, updating the federal database by every military branch etc. What does car accident have to do with gun violence? Unless you're stating the rate in which your more likely to die. Our number one resource is our children and we need to protect the future at all cost. So what are your solutions, don't demonize me for trying to come up with solutions.

[Corbic]

Our number one resource is our children and we need to protect the future at all cost. So what are your solutions, don't demonize me for trying to come up with solutions.

So why are we not talking about the number one killer of childern then?

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190907/85ef467694a7f2813ad6c91e6a9328e4.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190907/46fca98f21ee3ca8fa02ee55bd7c2dd5.jpg

61% of African Americans die by Abortion.

After Abortion, Car accidents are the leading cause of death for childern. #bancars #mandatehelmets

[S14rebuild]

My steps

1..remove gun free zones
2..way better education/help for mental distable people
3.. help in the inner cities
4..armed guards at schools and events

I dont think those 4 to start are such a bad thing and could help

Like i said before there is no 100% way to solve this issue, criminals and bad guys will do what they want

[lewisfk]

I'm glad you're changing the subject. Abortion is a choice that women make with or without the consent of a man for numerous reasons. That is something the individuals involved will have to explain to their maker. I asked a question that know of you have answered, you just move the goal post or say I'm for a ban on your weapons.

[S14rebuild]

Shall not infringe apon....... VERY FUCKING CLEAR

[lewisfk]

My steps

1..remove gun free zones
2..way better education/help for mental distable people
3.. help in the inner cities
4..armed guards at schools and events

I dont think those 4 to start are such a bad thing and could help

Like i said before there is no 100% way to solve this issue, criminals and bad guys will do what they want

You're in favor of a police state or over-policing?

Education is a great start, not all people suffering from mental illness are going to commit a mass shooting. PTSD Veterans and active duty members are more like to commit suicide. Education is a must

Let's make it damn hard for the bad guys to get a gun from the start. Close gun loopholes.

[S14rebuild]

I didnt say over policing...
If we have armed guards protecting our money why not have atleast 1 protecting our children? Hell a metal detector would be nice.
Inner city schools have had them for years, whens the last mass shooting happened there?


And please tell me what are these gun-loopholes?

[lewisfk]

Show gun loopholes allow you or me to sell a gun to a felon without completing a background check. That is how Chicago gets a lot of firearms used in crimes. Illinois implemented a cooldown period to purchase guns to curb the inner-city violence, but these idiots just drive to Indiana to make a purchase. Another loophole is when women purposely buy guns for their significant other, who is a felony and will most likely commit another felony with that firearm.

[S14rebuild]

Fukn gunshow loop hole.....SOO FUCKING ANNOYING

it has nothing todo with a gunshow holy fuk

Its a personal transaction between 2 individual people.

Like if i was to meetup with you and sell you a gun.

Or better. If my dad had a firearm that was passed down in the family and then gave it to me. SAME FUCKING THING.

again....this has been posted over and over agin in this thread and its either ur to stupid to read it/comprehend. Or ur just being hardheaded.


And ontop of that it is ALREADY a crime to knowly sell a firearm to sumone that has a record, whos been clicly insane, u know COMMON SENSE.

BRO...are you that dense?

[midnight zenki]

So why are we not talking about the number one killer of childern then?

61% of African Americans die by Abortion.

After Abortion, Car accidents are the leading cause of death for childern. #bancars #mandatehelmets

A: Again you didn’t post a source so why aren’t you posting sources?

B: I already posted about auto fatalities, it’s different when it’s a self derived choice or accident as opposed to murder at another’s hands.

C: Abortion is still legal.


Shall not infringe apon....... VERY FUCKING CLEAR

Cherry picking as usual, the first words of the 2nd amendment are “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State”. In constitutional law the placement of the words matter a heavily. This simple amendment has very few, but those that preceded your credo could easily sway the balance in a reverse Moscow Mitch situation in the decades to come.

[S14rebuild]

A: Again you didn’t post a source so why aren’t you posting sources?

B: I already posted about auto fatalities, it’s different when it’s a self derived choice or accident as opposed to murder at another’s hands.

C: Abortion is still legal.




Cherry picking as usual, first words are to secure a well regulated militia. You should be scared. In constitutional law the placement of the words matter a heavily. This simple amendment has very few, but those that preceded your credo could easily sway the balance in a reverse Moscow Mitch situation in the decades to come.

Well regulated- doesnt mean strip the american people of there guns. And self protection.

No ones cherry picking anything the ENTIRE 2ND amendment proves my very point! Its either you agree/beleve in it or your against it. That very amendment founded this country, what we left behind and now ur selfthinging smartass wants to nit pick words in order for u to try and contort says and bend words to fit ur agend. Fuck that.

[Corbic]

I'm glad you're changing the subject. Abortion is a choice that women make with or without the consent of a man for numerous reasons. That is something the individuals involved will have to explain to their maker. I asked a question that know of you have answered, you just move the goal post or say I'm for a ban on your weapons.No subject change. You clearly stated: "Our number one resource is our children and we need to protect the future at all cost. So what are your solutions"

Funny how murdering childern is okay, because it's a personnel choice... But I need your permission to own 4.5lbs of plastic and steal.

Your rational being, that someone, somewhere, may one day, potentially, with a completely different 4.5lbs of plastic and steal, could, conceivably hurt a child...

Therefore, my constitutional rights should be revoked, my hobbies destroyed and my basic inalienable human right to defend my self denied (life, liberty and pursuit of happiness).


You want to protect childern?

End Abortion
Reinstitute the Nuclear Family
End Sexualization of Childern
End Communist Propaganda in Education
End Public Schools as we know it

There ya go. I just saved +150k lives without violating a single person's constitutional right, I've likely saved thousands more from suicide, "deaths of dispair" and potentially prevented future mass shooters.


What does "your solution" solve?

Violate 350 million peoples constitutional rights.

Confiscate guns from Law Abbiding Citizens : potentially leading to civil violence

Take guns from rape and domestic violence victims

The 4-6 people that commit mass homicide each year, are still going to obtain guns on the black market or devise ways to kill +10 people in a single instance (bombs, blades, vehicles, poison)

Gangs and Violent Criminals will still have black market access to guns, member who don't will innovate.

Background Checks:

Check fucking what? Someone posted a Trump meme or Hitler Joke? Someone has anxiety? Someone was late for work? Bad credit? Banned from Facebook?

What are you going to do when it comes to.. Someone is Black and lives in Chicago? Someone is Muslim and married to a Saudi? Someone is Gender Queer and was bullied in school? Someone voted for Bernie Sanders and hates Capitalism? They are a Seahawks fan?

Are you going to create a giant information data base and generate a "social credit score" for everyone in the US? Hmmm sounds like a marvelously totalitarian dream!

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190908/fe5d61225e7e2f0adaa6e127cd89b0af.jpg


I better stop talking to you, I don't need your low SCS to impact mine.

[Corbic]

A: Again you didn’t post a source so why aren’t you posting sources?

What numbers are you challenging?


B: I already posted about auto fatalities, it’s different when it’s a self derived choice or accident as opposed to murder at another’s hands.

So someone chooses to get hit by a drunk driver and dies? Someone chooses to get hit by a texting driver and die? Someone chooses to get hit by a speeding driver and die? A child chooses to have a parent not properly restrain them and die?

By your very logic those people killed in El Passo choose to die. They decided to go to Walmart, knowing full well that a Mass Shooting could happen, and they choose to go unarmed, deposited having the ability to arm themselves to prevent such an event.



C: Abortion is still legal..

So if we legalize Mass Shootings, then it wouldn't be a problem?

How would you do that? Like permit system? Lottery? Maybe a once a year "purge" event? Oh I know, just open up those "Socialist Centers" you leftist love and hire any would be mass killer to work there!!

[midnight zenki]

Well regulated- doesnt mean strip the american people of there guns. And self protection.

No ones cherry picking anything the ENTIRE 2ND amendment proves my very point! Its either you agree/beleve in it or your against it. That very amendment founded this country, what we left behind and now ur selfthinging smartass wants to nit pick words in order for u to try and contort says and bend words to fit ur agend. Fuck that.

Nope, clearly you don’t know shit, it was one of many not the one. “With us or against us”, damn Mcarthy. Constitutional law is a bitch, what I’m saying is if corporations can be people nothing is sacred and if the winds blow in just the right direction things could change. It’s highly unlikely but weirder things have happened.

[S14rebuild]

Nope, clearly you don’t know shit, it was one of many not the one. “With us or against us”, damn Mcarthy. Constitution law is a bitch, what I’m saying is if corporations can be people nothing is sacred and if the winds blow in just the right direction things could change. It’s highly unlikely but weirder things have happened.


Ahhh, i dont know shit....this is a correct statement.

[Corbic]

Nope, clearly you don’t know shit, it was one of many not the one. “With us or against us”, damn Mcarthy. Constitution law is a bitch, what I’m saying is if corporations can be people nothing is sacred and if the winds blow in just the right direction things could change. It’s highly unlikely but weirder things have happened.Yeah, like "right to privacy" is grounds to legally murder childern...

[S14rebuild]

This is exhausting......

Fukn round and round in the wheel.

Came here for car parts and enthusiasts

Have a headache instead

[midnight zenki]

What numbers are you challenging?




So someone chooses to get hit by a drunk driver and dies? Someone chooses to get hit by a texting driver and die? Someone chooses to get hit by a speeding driver and die? A child chooses to have a parent not properly restrain them and die?

By your very logic those people killed in El Passo choose to die. They decided to go to Walmart, knowing full well that a Mass Shooting could happen, and they choose to go unarmed, deposited having the ability to arm themselves to prevent such an event.





So if we legalize Mass Shootings, then it wouldn't be a problem?

How would you do that? Like permit system? Lottery? Maybe a once a year "purge" event? Oh I know, just open up those "Socialist Centers" you leftist love and hire any would be mass killer to work there!!


I am challenging your credibility moron, facts are derived from sources that others can view to form their own critical analysis.

Dude, shouldn’t you be out shooting up pizza joints looking for pedophiles?

[Corbic]

I am challenging your credibility moron, facts are derived from sources that others can view to forty their own critical analysis.



Dude, shouldn’t you be out shooting up pizza joints looking for pedophiles?I get it, you have no rational argument. So now you are just going to squeal, call peoples names and demand "facts".

Facts on fucking what?

You stated "car fatalities are a personal choice", first do you have evidence to support that? Second, I countered with "getting shot in a Walmart is a personnel choice". Do you have documentation to refute that?

[midnight zenki]

I get it, you have no rational argument. So now you are just going to squeal, call peoples names and demand "facts".

Facts on fucking what?

You stated "car fatalities are a personal choice", first do you have evidence to support that? Second, I countered with "getting shot in a Walmart is a personnel choice". Do you have documentation to refute that?

Nothing you have posted ever comes with a credible source or citation, it’s big shocking memes or pictures followed by a rant and endless what-aboutisms.

You can mis-quote me all you like, I said car fatalities are accidents. I don’t always get in an accident but when I do I always choose to. STFU.

[Corbic]

You can mis-quote me all you like, I said car fatalities are accidents. I don’t always get in an accident but when I do I always choose to.


If you "choose to" , it's not a fucking accident.

[midnight zenki]

If you "choose to" , it's not a fucking accident.

That’s the fucking point.

[Corbic]

That’s the fucking point.What's the fucking point? You don't care about car fatalities?

Surely that would fit your Green Agenda to end personal transportation and make us relient on thr Government to move about.

[Future240]

This is exhausting......

Fukn round and round in the wheel.

Came here for car parts and enthusiasts

Have a headache instead

Funny how loud noises can cause that. :rimshot:

[lewisfk]

I don't understand how someone yells about their personal freedoms but bash women for making a life-changing decision. I never said ban guns, I only ask for reasonable solutions I got few from future and zenk. It is 2019 why are people talking about a well-organized militia? There are men and women who volunteer to protect this country, and sacrifice their lives. I honestly believe to many citizens are sitting on their asses crying about personal freedoms and do nothing to earn them!

[S14rebuild]

I don't understand how someone yells about their personal freedoms but bash women for making a life-changing decision. I never said ban guns, I only ask for reasonable solutions I got few from future and zenk. It is 2019 why are people talking about a well-organized militia? There are men and women who volunteer to protect this country, and sacrifice their lives. I honestly believe to many citizens are sitting on their asses crying about personal freedoms and do nothing to earn them!

Cause in 2019 anything is possiable?

I mean hell its 2019 and crazy people with guns are shooting 4 or more people at a time... who thunk?

[Corbic]

I don't understand how someone yells about their personal freedoms but bash women for making a life-changing decision. I never said ban guns, I only ask for reasonable solutions I got few from future and zenk. It is 2019 why are people talking about a well-organized militia? There are men and women who volunteer to protect this country, and sacrifice their lives. I honestly believe to many citizens are sitting on their asses crying about personal freedoms and do nothing to earn them!Yeah, 2019

The "Progressive" Party that claims "the science is in" on Climate Change and mocks the religious...

Also believes in 56 Genders

Believes a Fetus isn't human and can be terminated at convince... But then also shrieks about eating meat or wearing fur.

Refuses to belive any scientific data or statistics on..

Guns
Gender/Sex
Economics, Micro and Macro
Intelligence
Reproduction
Psychology
Crime
Geography
History

[lewisfk]

Who would of think it, the FBI! They warned of the alt-right hate groups for the past 8 years. Fact, there is been more domestic terrorism in the US than foreign terrorism. Even major police departments across the U.S. advocate for the end of assault weapons, but hey what do they know? I just want reasonable reforms.

[lewisfk]

Yeah, 2019

The "Progressive" Party that claims "the science is in" on Climate Change and mocks the religious...

Also believes in 56 Genders

Believes a Fetus isn't human and can be terminated at convince... But then also shrieks about eating meat or wearing fur.

Refuses to belive any scientific data or statistics on..

Guns
Gender/Sex
Economics, Micro and Macro
Intelligence
Reproduction
Psychology
Crime
Geography
History

Who is mocking religion? Climate change is real! There are many lefties who believe in Economics and the markets. Elizabeth Warren is one of them. You might know agree with her views but when it comes to the numbers no one is calling her out on that.

[Corbic]

Who would of think it, the FBI! They warned of the alt-right hate groups for the past 8 years. Fact, there is been more domestic terrorism in the US than foreign terrorism. Even major police departments across the U.S. advocate for the end of assault weapons, but hey what do they know? I just want reasonable reforms.The same FBI that tried to cover up Ruby Ridge, Waco, OKC and failed to do shit about 9/11? The same FBI that has God knows what to do with Epstine and litterally spent two years with thr DNC trying to stage a Soft-Coupe of a rightfully elected president?

Kay, sure.

Also, sensible reform? You've litterally been asked 15 times what the fuck that means. "I just want to stop all murder and bring about world peace"

Since you didn't read it: Here is what your confiscation and "more" background checks get you:


What does "your solution" solve?

Violate 350 million peoples constitutional rights.

Confiscate guns from Law Abbiding Citizens : potentially leading to civil violence

Take guns from rape and domestic violence victims

The 4-6 people that commit mass homicide each year, are still going to obtain guns on the black market or devise ways to kill +10 people in a single instance (bombs, blades, vehicles, poison)

Gangs and Violent Criminals will still have black market access to guns, member who don't will innovate.

Background Checks:

Check fucking what? Someone posted a Trump meme or Hitler Joke? Someone has anxiety? Someone was late for work? Bad credit? Banned from Facebook?

What are you going to do when it comes to.. Someone is Black and lives in Chicago? Someone is Muslim and married to a Saudi? Someone is Gender Queer and was bullied in school? Someone voted for Bernie Sanders and hates Capitalism? They are a Seahawks fan?

Are you going to create a giant information data base and generate a "social credit score" for everyone in the US? Hmmm sounds like a marvelously totalitarian dream!

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190908/fe5d61225e7e2f0adaa6e127cd89b0af.jpg


I better stop talking to you, I don't need your low SCS to impact mine.

[exitspeed]

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/miley-cyrus-split-liam-hemsworth-isn-t-just-celebrity-fodder-ncna1042931

Framed differently, the picture is this: Men need heterosexuality to maintain their societal dominance over women. Women, on the other hand, are increasingly realizing not only that they don’t need heterosexuality, but that it also is often the bedrock of their global oppression.

This is the kind of shit that is going to get Trump re-elected. This is the radical Left.

[lewisfk]

Republican Mark Sanford is going to make a run for the GOP nomination. Approve or disapprove?

[Corbic]

Republican Mark Sanford is going to make a run for the GOP nomination. Approve or disapprove?16 times now...




What does "your solution" solve?

Violate 350 million peoples constitutional rights.

Confiscate guns from Law Abbiding Citizens : potentially leading to civil violence

Take guns from rape and domestic violence victims

The 4-6 people that commit mass homicide each year, are still going to obtain guns on the black market or devise ways to kill +10 people in a single instance (bombs, blades, vehicles, poison)

Gangs and Violent Criminals will still have black market access to guns, member who don't will innovate.

Background Checks:

Check fucking what? Someone posted a Trump meme or Hitler Joke? Someone has anxiety? Someone was late for work? Bad credit? Banned from Facebook?

What are you going to do when it comes to.. Someone is Black and lives in Chicago? Someone is Muslim and married to a Saudi? Someone is Gender Queer and was bullied in school? Someone voted for Bernie Sanders and hates Capitalism? They are a Seahawks fan?

Are you going to create a giant information data base and generate a "social credit score" for everyone in the US? Hmmm sounds like a marvelously totalitarian dream!

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190908/fe5d61225e7e2f0adaa6e127cd89b0af.jpg


I better stop talking to you, I don't need your low SCS to impact mine.

[Future240]

He himself even admitted he is unlikely to defeat the potus.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/former-sc-congressman-mark-sanford-announces-republican-primary-challenge-against-trump/2019/09/08/0f2c3e8e-d23f-11e9-9610-fb56c5522e1c_story.html

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/mark-sanford-announces-trump-primary-challenge-gop-has-lost-our-way

[midnight zenki]

He himself even admitted he is unlikely to defeat the potus.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/former-sc-congressman-mark-sanford-announces-republican-primary-challenge-against-trump/2019/09/08/0f2c3e8e-d23f-11e9-9610-fb56c5522e1c_story.html

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/mark-sanford-announces-trump-primary-challenge-gop-has-lost-our-way

Doesn’t matter much when Greed Over People is silencing challengers to Trump by eliminating primaries in multiple states https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.politico.com/amp/story/2019/09/06/republicans-cancel-primaries-trump-challengers-1483126

[exitspeed]

Doesn’t matter much when Greed Over People is silencing challengers to Trump by eliminating primaries in multiple states https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.politico.com/amp/story/2019/09/06/republicans-cancel-primaries-trump-challengers-1483126

Did you come up with a clever acronym when Hilary and the DNC conspired and gave her the nomination over Bernie?

[Corbic]

Did you come up with a clever acronym when Hilary and the DNC conspired and gave her the nomination over Bernie?Naw, they just murder dudes.

Just ask Shawn Lucas and Seth Rich... Oh wait.

[Agamemnon]

They are a Seahawks fan?.
Well I'm fucked.

[lewisfk]

Did you come up with a clever acronym when Hilary and the DNC conspired and gave her the nomination over Bernie?

^^Agreed!

The DNC is a basket case and is out of step with middle America and rural America. I believe moderate Republicans need t start their own Party! this will draw in Independents like myself and moderate Democrats. Will Hurd always gets my vote, he is a veteran, willing to compromise for the greater good, and doesn't compromise his morals.

[midnight zenki]

Did you come up with a clever acronym when Hilary and the DNC conspired and gave her the nomination over Bernie?

Nah, but Do Not Care comes to mind pretty quickly.

[Future240]

The POLITICAL SYSTEM is a basket case. I believe moderates need to start their own Party!


Fixed.
We need a real viable 3rd party.

[midnight zenki]

Fixed.
We need a real viable 3rd party.

I also agree with this.

[Corbic]

Fixed.

We need a real viable 3rd party.Can you imagine, being elected with only 26% of the counties votes instead of 46%? #NotMyPresident

A 3rd party sounds great I till you realize it may end up just being the party of California, Washington and New York.

[S14rebuild]

Trump 2020......done

[lewisfk]

^^ Ok. I think things like this will be his down fall, even the most die hard Republicans are pissed about this.

I find it insane that the CIA or FBI felt compelled to pull a deep Russian asset in 2017 because of the POTUS inability to keep his mouth shut. Fears confirmed in late 2017 when he leaks Israeli intelligence to Russia.

[feito]

It is 2019 why are people talking about a well-organized militia?
hong kong and venezuelan protesters come to mind
There are men and women who volunteer to protect this country, and sacrifice their lives.
hong kong and venezuelan military and police fighting off the protesters come to mind.
See how that works?
You dont want your freedom? Fine, but you wont force us into surrendering ours.
Freedom be scary yo.

[Future240]

Can you imagine, being elected with only 26% of the counties votes instead of 46%? #NotMyPresident

A 3rd party sounds great I till you realize it may end up just being the party of California, Washington and New York.

I get why it sounds bad on paper but a lot of people only vote for left or right because that is all there is and it’s been done that way so long.

We hand all this power to two parties and they play political softball with our nation.

Remember all the articles concerning the health of Hilliary? Now they are doing the same thing to Trump.

Barack put in regulations regarding climate change and the EPA Trump undos them.

If a democrat is elected then he or she will likely softball them back screaming climate change.

The parties now see to be more focused on beating the other party versus getting stuff done.

That being said I will say 45 is not part of the Republican Party. He is like Bernie in being an independent who adopted a label to get elected under one of the two parties.

In his own way he is trying to get stuff done. Can’t argue with that. His congress however......

Washington warned of this.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Washington%27s_Farewell_Address#Constitutio n_and_political_factions


Washington recognizes that it is natural for people to organize and operate within groups such as political parties, but he also argues that every government has recognized political parties as an enemy and has sought to repress them because of their tendency to seek more power than other groups and to take revenge on political opponents.[5] He feels that disagreements between political parties weakened the government.

Moreover, he makes the case that "the alternate domination" of one party over another and coinciding efforts to exact revenge upon their opponents have led to horrible atrocities, and "is itself a frightful despotism. But this leads at length to a more formal and permanent despotism." From Washington's perspective and judgment, political parties eventually and "gradually incline the minds of men to seek security... in the absolute power of an individual",[1] leading to despotism. He acknowledges the fact that parties are sometimes beneficial in promoting liberty in monarchies, but argues that political parties must be restrained in a popularly elected government because of their tendency to distract the government from their duties, create unfounded jealousies among groups and regions, raise false alarms among the people, promote riots and insurrection, and provide foreign nations and interests access to the government where they can impose their will upon the country.

[bmhossain]

hong kong and venezuelan protesters come to mind

hong kong and venezuelan military and police fighting off the protesters come to mind.
See how that works?
You dont want your freedom? Fine, but you wont force us into surrendering ours.
Freedom be scary yo.



Pretty sure we've seen this happen several times throughout history. Always in the name of peace initially. If you think the political elite don't believe that they should have total control over everything you're wrong. Once freedoms are lost it's not exactly easy to get them back. These two countries are a fine example.

[lewisfk]

hong kong and venezuelan protesters come to mind

hong kong and venezuelan military and police fighting off the protesters come to mind.
See how that works?
You dont want your freedom? Fine, but you wont force us into surrendering ours.
Freedom be scary yo.

Hong Kong is the only place in China were the citizens have full access to the internet, not controlled by the Government. They have the right to protest and show their frustration, there is no need for a militia! if you want to understand how militias work in the modern era, google Iraq. Militias are no different than mercenaries killing for power and money. (MODERN ERA)

Venezuela is fighting to overthrow a dictator who is propped up by Russia and Cuba. There is a food shortage, vaccine shortage, medicine, and electricity shortage. The people of Venezuela are fighting because the government is inept and miss handled the country's finances.
Venezuela
• Proven oil reserves: 303.2 billion barrels (17.9% of world total)
• 2017 daily oil production: 2.1 million barrels
• 5 yr. oil production change: -22%
• GDP per-capita: N/A

[lewisfk]

Everyone please check your favorite new outlet to verify this! Odesa Texas shooter failed Federal Background check to purchase a weapon. He purchased his guns from a private seller, and used those guns to kill 7 and wounded 25.


https://www.texastribune.org/2019/09/03/odessa-texas-shooter-bought-gun-private-sale-without-background-check/

https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/09/us/universal-background-checks-guns-texas-shooting-invs/index.html

[Corbic]

Pretty sure we've seen this happen several times throughout history. Always in the name of peace initially. If you think the political elite don't believe that they should have total control over everything you're wrong. Once freedoms are lost it's not exactly easy to get them back. These two countries are a fine example.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190910/cd705d46634f806e797dcf21eb58ec2c.jpg

[Future240]

https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/09/04/us/west-texas-odessa-shooter/index.html?r=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F

Some Sources say the investigation is still underway
Some say he for sure did a private sell.

Some say the seller was illegally making and selling guns
https://www.wsj.com/articles/authorities-suspect-man-of-making-and-selling-gun-used-in-texas-shooting-11567639127
Curious as to what the fbi will turn up.

Also
https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2019/09/09/after-odessa-shooting-no-universal-background-checks-editorials-debates/2268924001/


https://www.dailywire.com/news/48863/who-will-win-democratic-primary-latest-2020-josh-hammer

[Future240]

So 45 wants to ban flavored vapes.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/11/health/trump-vaping.html

https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/09/11/politics/donald-trump-vape-e-cigarette-flavors/index.html?r=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F&rm=1

This opinion piece pretty much sums of my thoughts
https://www.dailywire.com/news/51649/walsh-media-claim-theres-vaping-crisis-and-matt-walsh

[lewisfk]

^^ teenagers are dying from using flavored vapes at an unprecedented number. Walking pneumonia is up and it's all linked to vaping. All vape products need to be regulated by the FDA before they're sold to the masses. With this said, if you're willing to trust shit made in third world countries God be with you. The American vape association sued the previous administration in 2010 to up the age of tobacco use and to better enforce tobacco laws. This organization saw the writing on the wall, Obama and all elected officials failed the American youth.

[rvns14]

^^ teenagers are dying from using flavored vapes at an unprecedented number. Walking pneumonia is up and it's all linked to vaping. All vape products need to be regulated by the FDA before they're sold to the masses. With this said, if you're willing to trust shit made in third world countries God be with you. The American vape association sued the previous administration in 2010 to up the age of tobacco use and to better enforce tobacco laws. This organization saw the writing on the wall, Obama and all elected officials failed the American youth.

Enforcing tobacco laws already on the books would make tobacco use less common in the under aged and would increase the profit of vape companies, not protect them from third world products. And Boeing, Nissan, Apple all use components made in the third world.

[Future240]

^^ teenagers are dying from using flavored vapes at an unprecedented number. Walking pneumonia is up and it's all linked to vaping. All vape products need to be regulated by the FDA before they're sold to the masses. With this said, if you're willing to trust shit made in third world countries God be with you. The American vape association sued the previous administration in 2010 to up the age of tobacco use and to better enforce tobacco laws. This organization saw the writing on the wall, Obama and all elected officials failed the American youth.


First off that is a blatant lie. There have been 6 vaping deaths in the country.

https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/09/10/health/vaping-outbreak-2019-explainer/index.html?r=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F

Secondly keeping tobacco out of teens hands is a parent’s job not the governments.

I agree July should not market to kid or make false claims. That is far as the FDA should go.

The ATF should just enforce the laws that we already have. Also require a credit card for online purchases. That way you can help curb teens buying vapes online.

Wtf is with y’all being ok with this nanny state nonsense? Whatever happened to personal responsibility?

A teenager is smart enough to know they should not be vaping if they are taught right. If they still choose to (like so many did with cigs back in the day) then that is on them.

It is not the government’s job to babysit.


Let me also link this article
https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/09/03/health/ecigarettes-vaping-death-lung-disease-oregon-bn/index.html?r=https%3A%2F%2Fwww-m.cnn.com%2F2019%2F09%2F06%2Fhealth%2Fcdc-vaping-lung-disease-investigation-update-bn%2Findex.html%3Fr%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Fwww-m.cnn.com%252F2019%252F09%252F10%252Fhealth%252Fva ping-outbreak-2019-explainer%252Findex.html%253Fr%253Dhttps%25253A%25 252F%25252Fwww.google.com%25252F

Health officials say it's unclear whether there's a connection between cases, whether vaping definitively caused these illnesses and what components or chemicals of e-cigarettes might be responsible.

"We don't yet know the exact cause of these illnesses -- whether they're caused by contaminants, ingredients in the liquid or something else, such as the device itself," Dr. Ann Thomas, public health physician at Oregon Health Authority's Public Health Division, said in a statement.


From the first link
"At this time, more information is needed to better understand whether there's a relationship between any specific products or substances and the reported illnesses. The illnesses under investigation involve the broader use of vaping products -- including those being used with substances like THC; e-cigarettes are considered one type of vaping product," the statement said in part.

So basically it is unknown what the actual issue with vapes are as the investigation is on going but to “protect the kids” el presidente decides to make a sweeping ban.

This is a right side example of feel good legislation.

Bad Trump.

[S14rebuild]

^^ teenagers are dying from using flavored vapes at an unprecedented number. Walking pneumonia is up and it's all linked to vaping. All vape products need to be regulated by the FDA before they're sold to the masses. With this said, if you're willing to trust shit made in third world countries God be with you. The American vape association sued the previous administration in 2010 to up the age of tobacco use and to better enforce tobacco laws. This organization saw the writing on the wall, Obama and all elected officials failed the American youth.

Uhh...this guy just doesn't stop with the bs

[lewisfk]

^^ First off this is not b.s. Just because you do not like my post, doesn't make it fake or wrong.

[S14rebuild]

Hows to kool-aide today lewisfk?

[lewisfk]

Hows to kool-aide today lewisfk?

I was actually defending the Vape Association because they were proactive with the warnings and Congress failed to pass tougher laws. Currently adult vapers are being demonized for the actions of dumb children who are miss using the product.

[lewisfk]

First off that is a blatant lie. There have been 6 vaping deaths in the country.

https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/09/10/health/vaping-outbreak-2019-explainer/index.html?r=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F

Secondly keeping tobacco out of teens hands is a parent’s job not the governments.

I agree July should not market to kid or make false claims. That is far as the FDA should go.

The ATF should just enforce the laws that we already have. Also require a credit card for online purchases. That way you can help curb teens buying vapes online.


Wtf is with y’all being ok with this nanny state nonsense? Whatever happened to personal responsibility?

A teenager is smart enough to know they should not be vaping if they are taught right. If they still choose to (like so many did with cigs back in the day) then that is on them.

It is not the government’s job to babysit.


Let me also link this article
https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/09/03/health/ecigarettes-vaping-death-lung-disease-oregon-bn/index.html?r=https%3A%2F%2Fwww-m.cnn.com%2F2019%2F09%2F06%2Fhealth%2Fcdc-vaping-lung-disease-investigation-update-bn%2Findex.html%3Fr%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Fwww-m.cnn.com%252F2019%252F09%252F10%252Fhealth%252Fva ping-outbreak-2019-explainer%252Findex.html%253Fr%253Dhttps%25253A%25 252F%25252Fwww.google.com%25252F




From the first link


So basically it is unknown what the actual issue with vapes are as the investigation is on going but to “protect the kids” el presidente decides to make a sweeping ban.

This is a right side example of feel good legislation.

Bad Trump.



There have been six confirmed deaths through the CDC, and 450 cases of severe lung disease. There are 15 cases in different states were the teenagers had significant breathing issues prior to death, but the State Corner office has not ruled the cause of death. The common factor is all teenagers vaped heavily. When all the findings are released the numbers will only grow.

[Future240]

There have been six confirmed deaths through the CDC, and 450 cases of severe lung disease. There are 15 cases in different states were the teenagers had significant breathing issues prior to death, but the State Corner office has not ruled the cause of death. The common factor is all teenagers vaped heavily. When all the findings are released the numbers will only grow.

Source?

Let’s say it is 15 deaths

https://www.wsj.com/articles/youth-vaping-has-soared-in-2018-new-data-show-1537481424

There are millions of teenage vapers. 15 out of a single million is not “unprecedented”.

[exitspeed]

It’s not just the deaths though. There’s a lawsuit currently where a dude basically has the lungs of a 70 year old smoker. One report said 7 in 10 middle school kids are vaping or have vaped. That makes cigarettes stats from the 60’s look sad. Shit is not good.

One of the premises of being a libertarian is one of the few functions of the government is to to use resources to protect US citizens against things they can’t protect them serves against, hence the military. In this case, this shit is so unregulated, highly highly addictive and a major health risk I do believe this is an situation where the government should act in SOME way. However I don’t believe it should be a an outright ban. Although that may be necessary considering the amount of this stuff in the market. Ban it. Force the FDA to regulate it (like any other controlled substance) and then lift the ban when it’s safe.

[Corbic]

It’s not just the deaths though. There’s a lawsuit currently where a dude basically has the lungs of a 70 year old smoker.

Some how I think he was abusing the shit out it. All the deaths and injuries are related to modified Chinese Vape Sticks and mixing your own super juice. Shock, smoking the equivalent of 10 packs of cigarettes and a case of Redbull a day from a boosted vaporizer is unhealthy.


report said 7 in 10 middle school kids are vaping or have vaped. That makes cigarettes stats from the 60’s look sad. Shit is not good.

I call bullshit.

One of the premises of being a libertarian is one of the few functions of the government is to to use resources to protect US citizens against things they can’t protect them serves against, hence the military.

Oh this twisted logic will be good....

In this case, this shit is so unregulated, highly highly addictive and a major health risk I do believe this is an situation where the government should act in SOME way.


Yet all y'all calling for vape regulstions are likely the same assholes demanding legalization of pot.


However I don’t believe it should be a an outright ban. Although that may be necessary considering the amount of this stuff in the market. Ban it. Force the FDA to regulate it (like any other controlled substance) and then lift the ban when it’s safe.

This is the exact same bullshit "think of the childern" reactionary garbage is what has turned us into the craptastic over regulated borderline communist police state we've become.


One asshole backs over his kid and now backup cameras are MANDATORY.

If your so worried about the childern why don't you go after the real enemy.. Mother Fucking Domino's Sugar.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190916/66ab9096fdff1f79515cbf29e0d23b76.jpg


As far as kids vaping, that's a parental issue.

[Corbic]

Source?

Let’s say it is 15 deaths

https://www.wsj.com/articles/youth-vaping-has-soared-in-2018-new-data-show-1537481424

There are millions of teenage vapers. 15 out of a single million is not “unprecedented”.Exactly and I've seen more articles about flesh eating bacteria, alligator attacks and brain eating amoebas killing kids this year alone.

Ironic, 15 kids die over almost 20 years and it's an "epidemic".

20 people die BEA and it's "so incredibly rare" that it's considered statistical improbable and treatments simply don't exist because of its rarity deposited a 97% lethality rate.

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2019/07/how-brain-eating-amoeba-kills/594964/

[KA24DESOneThree]

if you want to understand how militias work in the modern era, google Iraq. Militias are no different than mercenaries killing for power and money. (MODERN ERA)

If you don't think militaries kill for power and money, you're deluding yourself. Anyone wearing a uniform might have nothing but the best intentions in mind, but the people sending them to fight don't.

We need a third, and fourth, and fifth party. But that's not going to happen. The US will continue its slide into being a shell of what it once could have been.

Stop being bullheaded buffoons. If something is "socialist" but costs less to implement and maintain than the current system, it's the right choice. If a good idea comes from someone you hate, that doesn't make it a bad idea. We're all in this country together.

[lewisfk]

^^ really, that's what I was saying! I was being sarcastic!

The Vape industry tried to self regulate, and the Government failed to pass meaningful laws. Most teenagers are buying knock of vape machines and nicotine made in third world countries. JUUL pointed this out in the last hearing. This is what I pointed out in several post.


Future.
https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/basic_information/e-cigarettes/severe-lung-disease.html

https://www.kens5.com/mobile/article/news/health/city-of-san-antonio-confirms-vaping-related-lung-disease-in-bexar-county/273-ff90e052-edb7-4254-800e-7f45f989b2fe

[S14rebuild]

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2019/09/15/beto_orourke_on_banning_assault_weapons_i_refuse_t o_acknowledge_the_polls_or_the_politics_or_the_fea r_of_the_nra.html#!





Yup........ this is perfectly fine?!

[lewisfk]

^^ no it is not! Beto is wrong! I want comprehensive back ground checks on everyone, if an individual wants to sale a gun they must contract a FFL individual to run the back ground check prior to the sale, and I want a portion of FFL fees to go to police and first responder!

[KA24DESOneThree]

^^ really, that's what I was saying! I was being sarcastic!

The Vape industry tried to self regulate, and the Government failed to pass meaningful laws. Most teenagers are buying knock of vape machines and nicotine made in third world countries. JUUL pointed this out in the last hearing. This is what I pointed out in several post.


Future.
https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/basic_information/e-cigarettes/severe-lung-disease.html

https://www.kens5.com/mobile/article/news/health/city-of-san-antonio-confirms-vaping-related-lung-disease-in-bexar-county/273-ff90e052-edb7-4254-800e-7f45f989b2fe

Mili-taries. Not mili-tias. I'm saying that military or militia, you're fighting for someone else's cause. Sometimes, you join because you want to fight for your parents, your neighbors, freedom... and sometimes you join because the chances of death are low and college is free.

I live in California. Face-to-face transactions are banned, but still happen. They will always still happen. There are a lot of guns out there with zero history.

Beto couldn't have my AR if I had one and I might buy one just to spite him. You know what I'd do with it? Nothing. I might go shoot lead-free ammo in an area so remote no one would ever know I'd been there. I might keep it stored in my safe. I might dress it up in a little princess outfit and throw it a tea party.

Kids don't have to go to school scared of being shot because the chances are overwhelming they'll be killed in a car crash on the way to or from school rather than in a school shooting. The chances are overwhelming they'll die young from obesity-related illnesses. The chances are overwhelming they'll die young from a medical mistake.

This is all stupid. People are stupid, and they vote.

[S14rebuild]

^^ no it is not! Beto is wrong! I want comprehensive back ground checks on everyone, if an individual wants to sale a gun they must contract a FFL individual to run the back ground check prior to the sale, and I want a portion of FFL fees to go to police and first responder!

So if my dad wants to give me a family ownednforearm, and passes it down to me...this is what u want?

[lewisfk]

I believe you have the right to receive a family heirloom, but if your a felon than no. The goal is to keep firearms out the hands of dangerous people. If you repaid your debt to society and your felony was not assault base, rape, or drug related than you should be able to own a gun. It is up to your State and its citizens to decide what you can own.

[S14rebuild]

But when u state comprehensive background checks FOR EVERYONE, that doesnt follow what u just said

[Future240]

^^ really, that's what I was saying! I was being sarcastic!

The Vape industry tried to self regulate, and the Government failed to pass meaningful laws. Most teenagers are buying knock of vape machines and nicotine made in third world countries. JUUL pointed this out in the last hearing. This is what I pointed out in several post.


Future.
https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/basic_information/e-cigarettes/severe-lung-disease.html

https://www.kens5.com/mobile/article/news/health/city-of-san-antonio-confirms-vaping-related-lung-disease-in-bexar-county/273-ff90e052-edb7-4254-800e-7f45f989b2fe

What we know
There are 380* cases of lung illness reported from 36 states and 1 U.S. territory. Six deaths have been reported from 6 states.
All reported cases have a history of e-cigarette product use or vaping.
Most patients have reported a history of using e-cigarette products containing THC. Many patients have reported using THC and nicotine. Some have reported the use of e-cigarette products containing only nicotine.
What we don’t know
We do not yet know the specific cause of these illnesses. The investigation has not identified any specific e-cigarette or vaping product (devices, liquids, refill pods, and/or cartridges) or substance that is linked to all cases.

So the cdc is saying the correlation seems to be thc vapes which are not legal in most places which means people are getting them from the black market and getting sick from some of them.

Meanwhile it would be law abiding vape shop owners that get fucked

Hmm sounds familiar.....

[lewisfk]

^^ Not just black market, most of these head shops or vape shops are selling bogus shit. Kids are their biggest market and do not want stop selling cotton candy or whatever flavor to them. The kids are doing a mod to juul so they can use THC products, can someone elaborate on that?

[S14rebuild]

If theres a will, theres a way.....just ban everything, lock everyone up...ILLEGAL

[lewisfk]

come on man, Beto is clown and he is making it harder to compromise for the better good!

[Corbic]

come on man, Beto is clown and he is making it harder to compromise for the better good!No, he's just speaking what ya'll are thinking.

Here's a compromise, repeal the NFA on SBR and Silencers.

[S14rebuild]

Betos a clow so what is biden?


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/politics/joe-biden-pushes-for-federal-gun-buyback-program-assault-weapons-ban-in-wake-of-mass-shootings/2019/08/05/6261d998-b7e5-11e9-b3b4-2bb69e8c4e39_story.html%3foutputType=amp


Or how about harris?

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/kamala-harris-willing-to-send-cops-to-peoples-homes-to-confiscate-banned-firearms



These Democrats will start a civil war. GUARNTEED

[S14rebuild]

No, he's just speaking what ya'll are thinking.

Here's a compromise, repeal the NFA on SBR and Silencers.

Got my vote!!!!

[Future240]

Ugh.

Kamala is so full of shit. I think she is the worse out of the bunch. In the last dnc debate she gave a bunch of non answers and basically said “orange man bad” to everything.

Biden was the most moderate but he is being pulled to the left to try and appease the dnc fan base.

[feito]

lol, leftists and their feelings... must tone it down in order not to offend any lefty snowflakes: undocumented immigrant for their illegal aliens, justice involve person for their convicted felons, and now mandatory buybacks for CONFISCATIONS. When it comes to firearms the vast majority involve will be rightists, and dems, you dont have to sugarcoat shit for us, say it like it is, we already know what it means anyway. CONFISCATIONS.

[tlieberman240]

Here's a compromise, repeal the NFA on SBR and Silencers.

I can agree with this 110%. SBR and silencer laws are some of the dumbest on the books.

[BryanSayWhat]

Here's a compromise, repeal the NFA on SBR and Silencers.
Yep, gun owners have been compromising since 1934 without receiving anything in return...

I spent the first half of my life living in Southern California and would love to move back, but the existing gun laws over there prevent that from happening.

[Corbic]

Fucking Savage.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190918/e59dde0e78b14f8d420daed925a32390.jpg

Trump 2020

[Future240]

I would like to see the numbers on this to see if it is far less expensive like he says

[spooled240]

Yeah I'm not really understanding the huge impact here..Aren't most, if not all new cars sold in CA identical to the same model cars sold in other states with less stringent smog standards? Unless there's some BS smog tax in CA that he trying to eliminate?

[S14rebuild]

Mr.trump...YOUR MY HERO

[Corbic]

I would like to see the numbers on this to see if it is far less expensive like he saysHis argument is California is forcing a 54mpg CAFE compared to the EPA's plan for 30mpg.

To achieve 54mpg fleet, makers are going to be forced to cram expensive hybrid/EV tech into every car, expensive materials to reduce weight and cut every non-madated safety system to meet these thresholds.

A Chevy Tahoe is safer then a Honda Fit. There is just no way around those physics.

Cars that do match great mileage and great safety are also extremely expensive, like a Tesla S or many luxury European cars.

EPA and FMVS have absolutely pushed up the price of New Cars.

A 60's loaded top engine Muscle car was $20k adjusted for inflation. A pedestrian Nova or Falcon barely $12k. With advancements in production I bet these cars would cost 2/3s of that today.

My Wife's 2015 Volkswagen Polo (Rus), manual, turbo, front airbags, ABS was only $9,950 new.

Build, Size, Interior and Safety are on par with a MKIV Jetta. Cheapest American Volkswagen is $19k, twice the price.


Who wouldn't buy a new S15 for $16k or R32 GTR for $25k? I assure you they are not melting the ice caps and murdering childern on the highways.

[Future240]

^^^I get the thought behind it. I just want to see some hard numbers.


For instance in this article different people say different things.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.sacbee.com/news/local/environment/article235219252.html

Then there is this point.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/2365337001

In the world of political softball would an auto maker really change up their plans Knowing the president will not be in power forever and that another president one day could simply reverse the rules.

Plus vehicles for sale in 2023 are likely in production or Bill phase now so it’s not like it would have a an immediate effect.

[Corbic]

^^^I get the thought behind it. I just want to see some hard numbers.


Hard Number is cost of cars haa dramatically risen in the last 25 years related to inflation.

Cars are also being held longer then ever, 12 year average now. While many will hail rust control and reliability, the fact is most people will say "I just can't afford a new $60k truck or $600/m for a Camry"


For instance in this article different people say different things.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.sacbee.com/news/local/environment/article235219252.html

Then there is this point.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/2365337001

Don't care, can't trust anyone anymore.

In the world of political softball would an auto maker really change up their plans Knowing the president will not be in power forever and that another president one day could simply reverse the rules.

California is going to sue. The courts will make a decision and set thr precidence. If they decide "No California", you won't be repleaing that with thr next DNC President. If they decide "Yes Cali!" nothing changes and more lawsuits will follow on other State V Federal issues.


Plus vehicles for sale in 2023 are likely in production or Bill phase now so it’s not like it would have a an immediate effect.

Not so much. Companies (like FCA) are just lined up to pay huge fines or shut down production lines.

Take the politics out of it, and it's just idiotic that California (et al) are able to bully OEMs and people into subverting Federal standards.

It's not just Intial sales that are an issue for OEMs and consumers, but also used vehicles. Cali (et al) have no problem rejecting registrations and certificates of other used vehicles. If OEM choose to say "fuck CARB" you'll be seeing lawsuits when someone buys a car in Texas then moves to Cali and can't register it. It's interfering with interstate commerce.

So for all the leftist suddenly "OMG States Rights Hypocrites!", yes, Indiana has a right not to be bludgeoned into adopting California standards by sheer economic/numerical force. This is also why we need to maintain the Electoral College.

As for the tree huggers, tail pipe emissions are not an issue. Oil companies don't care about automotive gasoline.

12 Largest Container ships (ones importing made in China slave labor Facist state products) contribute more pollution then ALL THR CARS IN THE WORLD.

All the Smog in Cali is from... Those Chinese Factories.


Oil production primarily supports electricity production, industrial bases, heating and.... PLASTIC.

Anything you own, touch or use that contains plastic is a petroleum product. Oil companies do not care about MPG. Such narrow minded morons. Emerging markets are adding millions of new vehicles. New plastic products add billions of barrels of crude. Expanding industrial nations can't get enough crude oil.

Big Oil has done zilch to increase Gasoline production. They don't care, they'll just adjust prices and maitian margins.

[Corbic]

I guess the good news is we're getting to see the DNC shed the sheep's clothing in a desperate attempt to pander and remain relevant.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190924/055628015a07c0c788e3fd55c01fc796.jpg

This is a scary reminder of the greatest weakness in a democracy:

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190924/2c7e39e38cab4f956265b87a7e6d48d2.jpg

Before the left went far left, we always had a national identy and a common core value system.
Arguments on policy and law where nuanced and technical.

Today, as the DNC drifts down the rabbit hole there is a growing divide. We see this frequently with failed democracies oversees. The majority takes power and operates with inpunity. Rampet corruption and abuse, they pass laws, policies and programs to the detriment of the minority group. Then the minority group reacts with violence and insurgence because they are unable to operate in the political space.

[Corbic]

Another baffling thing, in a quest to destroy thr oppsotion at all costs, the DNC remains against Trump and the trade war with China.

This should be universally praised by everyone. It should be a nuanced discussion, not a for/against.

Debate should be how. Much tarrif, tarrif on what? What sort of sanction? Travel Limits? Banking restrictions?


This topic hits everyone's interest.

American Jobs and Industry
America's Technical and Innovative Advantage
American Defense
America's Economy
Quality of Life

Human Rights
Dictatorships
Gender, Race and Religious Freedom
Anti-Facists
Climate Change / Polution
Ocean Polition
Anti-Colonialism
Anti-Usery
Protection of American Allies

World Peace

[KA24DESOneThree]

Any trade war is regressive. Those who can afford the increase least pay the brunt. The wealthy buy products made all over the world but the poor are limited to inexpensive items made in China, primarily. No one should want a trade war with China because it's unnecessarily painful for lower-income Americans.

I do business in China. The majority of my manufacturing is done in Shenzhen. Other than a single company in the US, there is no one to do my manufacturing here- not at the quantity I order. Even that company would require I treble my next order; no small feat and a literal impossibility given the cost of components.

When I went to China to vet companies, I heard "yes" a lot. I heard low MOQs. I saw technologically able and dynamic companies hungry for business.

If we decide that nationalism is the word of the day, we'll fall behind. We'll make expensive products that are subsidized rather than competitive. We'll fall victim to narcissism, to politics, to cronyism, to nepotism. We'll stagnate and we'll have no one to blame but ourselves. We need to celebrate American dynamism but also realize that certain industries just don't need our involvement. Maybe we can build a better, more ecologically-sound mousetrap, but that will come organically, not as the result of tariffs and protectionism.

[lewisfk]

^^ Agreed! I'm trying to figure out why he would ask Ukraine to do anything after the Muller Report and admit to it!

[Corbic]

Any trade war is . Those who can afford the increase least pay the brunt.

Lie. That's like saying ending slavery is going to unfairly impact the poor because the price of cotton will increase.

The jobs shipped over seas are the low paying, low skilled jobs.

The inexpensive garbage products that come back, think Walmart, also keep the poor in a cycle of procurement.

Think of the lesson about cheap boots vs expensive boots.


The wealthy buy products made all over the world but the poor are limited to inexpensive items made in China, primarily.

Again, lie.

Inexpensive products are made all over the world. Taiwan, Korea, Vietnam, Thailand, India, Pakistan, Turkey, Brazil, Mexico, Poland, Russia, Egypt, etc.


No one should want a trade war with China because it's unnecessarily painful for lower-income Americans.

Again, lie.

China is a criminal enterprise who has profited from theft, extortion, murder, corruption and political bullying.


I do business in China. The majority of my manufacturing is done in Shenzhen.

So you are biased.

Other than a single company in the US, there is no one to do my manufacturing here- not at the quantity I order. Even that company would require I treble my next order; no small feat and a literal impossibility given the cost of components./QUOTE]

Sounds like an opportunity to make a fortune then.

[QUOTE=KA24DESOneThree;6358372]When I went to Nazi Germany to vet companies in 1936, I heard "yes" a lot. I heard low MOQs. I saw technologically able and dynamic companies hungry for business.


So what. Doesn't excuse the genocide, organ harvesting, concentration camps, IP theft, human rights violation, pollution, corruption, financial market manipulation, espionage, colonization, etc

If we decide that nationalism is the word of the day, we'll fall behind.

Who said a thing about "nationalism"? Were talking about China and China alone.

Mind you, China's entire world view is based on Chinese Exceptism.


We'll make expensive products that are subsidized rather than competitive. We'll fall victim to narcissism, to politics, to cronyism, to nepotism. We'll stagnate and we'll have no one to blame but ourselves. We need to celebrate American dynamism but also realize that certain industries just don't need our involvement. Maybe we can build a better, more ecologically-sound mousetrap, but that will come organically, not as the result of tariffs and protectionism.

Wow....

What the fuck does any of that have to do with standing up to China and not letting them make a mockary of western human values?

In a hundred years transnational manufacturering will be looked at the same way we look at 18th century slavery.

Funny how people that demand $20/hr, free healthcare and think college is a human right... Also expect to buy cheap iPhones made by economic slaves at $5/day living under a fascist nightmare that is destroying the world's ecology.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[KA24DESOneThree]

Lie. That's like saying ending slavery is going to unfairly impact the poor because the price of cotton will increase.

The jobs shipped over seas are the low paying, low skilled jobs.

The inexpensive garbage products that come back, think Walmart, also keep the poor in a cycle of procurement.

Think of the lesson about cheap boots vs expensive boots.

We aren't talking about jobs. The jobs aren't coming back to the US. More on that later.

The inexpensive goods are all people can afford and yes, it does keep people in a cycle of procurement. However, when you need shoes and all you have is $25, you can't stretch for the $75 shoes. You literally cannot afford to buy quality products when you're living paycheck to paycheck, even if they save money in the long run.

$25 shoes from China are better quality than $25 shoes would be from the US. Reduce the cost of labor, increase the quality without decreasing the profit margin.

Again, lie.

Inexpensive products are made all over the world. Taiwan, Korea, Vietnam, Thailand, India, Pakistan, Turkey, Brazil, Mexico, Poland, Russia, Egypt, etc.

You have selective reading problems. Notice the word "primarily." At no point did I say all inexpensive products are made only in China.

US minimum wage: $7.25/hr.

Taiwan minimum wage $4.92/hr, Korea $9/hr, Vietnam $118-171/mo, Thailand $10/day, India $2.46-12/day, Pakistan $1/mo, Turkey $441/mo, Brazil $284.10/mo, Mexico $5.42-9.34/hr, Poland $3.89/hr, Russia $154.34/mo, Egypt no minimum.

As you can see, it is much cheaper for labor in many of the countries you listed. The low-skill, low-paying jobs are going to go to any number of countries other than ours.


Again, lie.

China is a criminal enterprise who has profited from theft, extortion, murder, corruption and political bullying.

What about the US in the nineteenth century? Literally committed genocide, stole land, refused to accept secession.

A lot of our space and medical research was conducted by war criminals we pardoned because we had to get ahead of the Soviets.

Political bullying? We use the threat of military force ALL THE TIME. We use economic sanctions ALL THE TIME.


So you are biased.

No. I'm just saying I have experience with production and the reasons why one would utilize a Chinese supplier.

Sounds like an opportunity to make a fortune then.

Nope. There's not enough money in it because the big players in my realm can absorb cost increases whereas the little guys can't. I've already cut my prices by 10% to compete in a competitive niche market. That 10% stings.


So what. Doesn't excuse the genocide, organ harvesting, concentration camps, IP theft, human rights violation, pollution, corruption, financial market manipulation, espionage, colonization, etc

Nice false quote. Glad you can put words in peoples' mouths like the best of them.

The United States, at various times in its existence, has participated in genocide, in forced human testing, in forced sterilization, in concentration camps, in human rights violations, in enormous pollution (by the way, we emit more CO2 per capita than they do), financial market manipulation, espionage, and colonialization. China's just doing it in the 21st century.

Who said a thing about "nationalism"? Were talking about China and China alone.

Mind you, China's entire world view is based on Chinese Exceptism.

Our whole military and economic attitude is based on American Exceptionalism. Our expansion west was based on American Exceptionalism. China has the potential to make our pp look smol and I think that's why the GOP is worried.


Wow....

What the fuck does any of that have to do with standing up to China and not letting them make a mockary of western human values?

In a hundred years transnational manufacturering will be looked at the same way we look at 18th century slavery.

Funny how people that demand $20/hr, free healthcare and think college is a human right... Also expect to buy cheap iPhones made by economic slaves at $5/day living under a fascist nightmare that is destroying the world's ecology.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

We aren't world police. Our job in the world is to do our thing and trade with people. If we don't like it, we need to make the decision as a group of consumers, not as a country. I didn't ask Trump to do shit and I'm seeing a metric assload of people not asking Trump either.

We've been a service economy for years, and the funny thing is that it's not really helping anyone but the wealthy, the ultra-wealthy, and the gods. We put ourselves in this position, not China.

[Future240]

https://www.politico.com/2020-election/candidates-views-on-the-issues/

Oh well fuck Weld then.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/09/23/politics/gop-primary-bill-weld-mark-sanford-joe-walsh-trump/index.html

Now back to The “Who to vote for” drawing board.

[exitspeed]

https://www.politico.com/2020-election/candidates-views-on-the-issues/

Oh well fuck Weld then.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/09/23/politics/gop-primary-bill-weld-mark-sanford-joe-walsh-trump/index.html

Now back to The “Who to vote for” drawing board.

What a fucking moron. Dude has no chance.

[lewisfk]

Well Damn, could a moderate Republican please stand up? Sanford, Walsh, or Weld pick your poison?

[Corbic]

Well Damn, could a moderate Republican please stand up? Sanford, Walsh, or Weld pick your poison?Who the fuck wants another RHINO?

Howabou a Moderate Democrat?

Country has moved way to far left in thr past 25 years. I don't see anybody happy. I bet you have more triggered mentally disabled communists today then you did with Regan.

What did we get with all this leftest swing?

[RalliartRsX]

Who the fuck wants another RHINO?

Howabou a Moderate Democrat?

Country has moved way to far left in thr past 25 years. I don't see anybody happy. I bet you have more triggered mentally disabled communists today then you did with Regan.

What did we get with all this leftest swing?

we got trump with all this leftist swing......??

[Corbic]

we got trump with all this leftist swing......??First "actual" Republican in 30 years.

If you look at where we are today, Bush Jr. was center left.


He'd only "right" tendency was his belief in God and family which put him apposed to gay marriage and abortion. Everything else, he held very left stances on for a Republican.

It's also amusing that Christian Values are "right" and Nazi Facist racist bigots... but Islamic Values are part of "inclusion and diversity"

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191001/9c9d2ce926a4dc7a0f46baeed49385de.jpg

[lewisfk]

^^ What does this child have to do with the sate of our politics? The country elected an individual who lacks empathy, sympathy, and lacks general education on how things work. (example tariffs) Farmers are getting financially subsidized, and the manufacturing industry has not come back near what he promised. I'm happy this child is allowed to fight for the environment, our generation basically fumbled the damn ball.

[S14rebuild]

The country elected exactly what it needed, a true Republican who calls out liars n bullshitters. Dont take no crap from anyone...even the little assholes who twitter post shit. Sorry ur too soft to deal with it, but he grabs his balls, yells from the rooftops...fuk all the snowflakes!


Now thats the leader we need, want and i fuckn voted for and 2020 ill hill dam get my vote again!


Tired of all these Democrats infringing on my rights. Make me give my $ away, fuckn socialist. Just like i tell the bum on the street coner..no i wont give u a dollar i worked for...you can fly a sign, u can get a job.

[lewisfk]

The country elected exactly what it needed, a true Republican who calls out liars n bullshitters. Dont take no crap from anyone...even the little assholes who twitter post shit. Sorry ur too soft to deal with it, but he grabs his balls, yells from the rooftops...fuk all the snowflakes!


Now thats the leader we need, want and i fuckn voted for and 2020 ill hill dam get my vote again!


Tired of all these Democrats infringing on my rights. Make me give my $ away, fuckn socialist. Just like i tell the bum on the street coner..no i wont give u a dollar i worked for...you can fly a sign, u can get a job.

WTF. Show me a DD214, Badge, or any damn thing you have, before you start calling someone soft. No need to be a keyboard warrior! I would never compromise my morals to vote for an individual who filled bankruptcy 4 times, sued countless times, and is only rich is because his daddy left him an inheritance. The election of Donald Trump showed that Americas will vote for anyone promising to enrich them, change everything back to whatever the status quo was.

[S14rebuild]

Just caused u served doesnt mean anything when it comes to politics..... that one stung didnt it...?

[rvns14]

Who the fuck wants another RHINO?

Howabou a Moderate Democrat?

Country has moved way to far left in thr past 25 years. I don't see anybody happy. I bet you have more triggered mentally disabled communists today then you did with Regan.

What did we get with all this leftest swing?

A Democrat lead economy recovery after a sham republican sovergn invasion

Regards,
2008-2019 Economic Recovery

[Corbic]

A Democrat lead economy recovery after a sham republican sovergn invasion



Regards,

2008-2019 Economic Recoveryhttps://www.amazon.com/New-Deal-Raw-Economic-Damaged/dp/1416592377


Go read a book.

[RalliartRsX]

https://www.amazon.com/New-Deal-Raw-Economic-Damaged/dp/1416592377


Go read a book.

Would you be so kind to explain to me how the disaster of TDR recovery from the Great Depression and his infringement on the Constitution, has anything to do with the recovery as successfully spearheaded by Obama and his team?? Are you trying to make the very illegitimate connection to Obama recovery??

I fail to see the link so would love to hear your viewpoint on how the two relates.

EDIT: Corbic, I have been doing a little reading on the New Deal. I can see how one can make the leap to the economic recovery similarities just strictly on face value (liberals supported the new deal while conservatives opposed it, having to prop up the banking industry, etc), however the intricacies, causes and nuances are where both recovery efforts begin to diverge.

I am curious to here your opinion Corbic.

[RalliartRsX]

EDIT: Corbic, I have been doing a little reading on the New Deal. I can see how one can make the leap to the economic recovery similarities just strictly on face value (liberals supported the new deal while conservatives opposed it, having to prop up the banking industry, etc), however the intricacies, causes and nuances are where both recovery efforts begin to diverge.

I am genuinely curious to here your opinion Corbic and how it relates to your response to the previous post about Obama's recovery and our current situation as imposed by trump and his admin.

[Corbic]

Obama didn't recover shit.

He spent Katrillians propping up every liberal fantasy and cash grab, prolonging the resession and then walked off stage the world in worse shape then when he started.

That's the comparison. A communist using economic crisis to force policy changes and federal money to buy support.

Hell, Obama even used the IRS and News as a weapon against his political opponents exactly the same way FDR did...

[RalliartRsX]

.....Oh Ok then.

Not sure what any of that has to do with Obama's recovery considering the actual facts state without Obama admin's intervention, there would be no recovery. If anything bunk mortgage backed securities, the banking industry (and people living above their means, which isn't a left/right wing thing) and the GOP's fascination with war is what brought to the crash of 08.

in addition, addressing your statement in regards to using the IRS and News Org against political opponents......considering again, none of it has anything to do with Obama's recovery.....or better yet, the New Deal from TDR.

Federal money to buy support of what?? How is Obama a communist?? And why, with what I mentioned above, that forcing policy changes was a bad idea considering what led to the crash in 08??

I am utterly confused as you have soo much unrelated and false statements wrapped up in your three line response that has nothing to do with the recovery at hand from either TDR or Obama :(

[exitspeed]

Despite all the impeachment bs, Trump is still hard at work. Another big win for the American people here.

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/trump-signs-18-billion-autism-cares-act/story?id=66002425

As a parent of a child who has been diagnosed as autistic (although it’s far more complicated than just saying he’s on the spectrum) and the reality of services that are offered to thin running out beyond school this is really great news.

Non partisan, just winning.

[lewisfk]

This is great, but who is paying for it? Smell like socialism!

[RalliartRsX]

Despite all the impeachment bs, Trump is still hard at work. Another big win for the American people here.

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/trump-signs-18-billion-autism-cares-act/story?id=66002425

As a parent of a child who has been diagnosed as autistic (although it’s far more complicated than just saying he’s on the spectrum) and the reality of services that are offered to thin running out beyond school this is really great news.

Non partisan, just winning.

Not shitting on trump, however Autism CARES became law in 2006 when it was originally called the Combating Autism Act. It was reauthorized in 2011. In 2014, it was renamed and reauthorized again.

This has been around since before trump and Obama actually, so I hope you were accessing this prior to the current trump signing (or atleast if you have had a chance to review the new Authorization it, any changes that were made help you and your son).

https://www.autismspeaks.org/autism-cares-act

[Corbic]

.....Oh Ok then.

3.Not sure what any of that has to do with Obama's recovery considering the actual facts state without Obama admin's intervention, there would be no recovery.


2.If anything bunk mortgage backed securities, the banking industry (and people living above their means, which isn't a left/right wing thing) and


1. the GOP's fascination with war is what brought to the


4. crash of 08.

Let's unpack this as nonpartisan as possible.

1. GOP is no more "war mongering" then the DNC, both historically and present. I'd argue the opposite since the DNC dragged us into the Civil War, WW1, WW2, Korea and Vietnam.

The reality is both parties are full of oligarchs who see war as a tool to build support. There are just as many, if not more, DNC members in the pockets of the "military industrial complex" as there are GOP. Plenty of Blue states have huge defense contractor presences, California, Washington, Maryland, New York, Massachusetts, Michigan, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Wisconsin, Illinois, etc.

DNC almost unanimously supported the conflicts in Afghanistan and Iraq until they didn't for political reasons. Once Obama was in, back to war! As he expanded drone strikes, supported the over throw of allies and stables governments and let the CIA run a muck. Whole DNC suddenly forgot about black sites and GITMO.

Another example, DNC howled when Bush "let" Russia invade Georgia. (Proven a internationally legal peace keeping intervention).

But then it was the GOP howling when Obama "let" the Russians "invade" Crimea (Condemned internationally... But Crimea was always Russia's)

Now we have GOP AND DNC crying about Trump. GOP cried Obama was soft on Iran, now the DNC is crying Trump is to soft on Syria and mean to Iran but he should have bombed Iran!

Both then cry he cuts spending or beats up on Lockheed and the Airforce...

Saddly thr US has become very good at applying force and the oligarchs are drunk on it.

*also interesting how the DNC cries NYT, Times, CNN and the intellegenence community lied to them and got WMD wrong... But now hold them as a gold standard.


2. Big Banks = GOP = Trump

Again, this is not correct. First, the banks fucking hate Trump. Trump wants to dismantle the Fed and has talked about returning to a gold standard.

For better or worse, he is not in lock step with "the financial community".

Second, most of these "big banks" heavily support the DNC, both in contributions and actions. It was no secret they wanted Hilary. Barny Frank and Chris Dobbs where basically the architects for the mortgage crisis.

Third, you mention "living beyond means" as a problem, but who made that possible? Many laws have been passed under the guise of "Social progression" and equality, equal leading laws, subsidized student loans to anyone with a pulse, mortgages for everyone!

Much of the loan industry has its hands tied. Further, you now currently have the DNC offering to relieve student debt, which is basically a giant banking pay off and vote bribe.

3. What interventions?

Massive Spending using Chinese financed debt, much of which was embezzled, stolen or lost. What did make it into the economy was then used to bank roll moving jobs to... China?

Healthcare reform that... Wait for it....

FUCKED EVERYONE

Rich people now pay 4x as much, poor people still don't have coverage, old people still don't have coverage and anyone that does have coverage pays out the ass... Oh and we spent a katrillaon dollars on it. Sounds Great!!!

4. The Afghan/Iraq conflicts did not crash the economy. Unsecured toxic mortgages being bundled and sold did. As stated, the orgin of this was the DNCs 1990's plan to get more poor people into homes and college. (mortgages and student loans).

Unfortunately neither party took action after the collapse to make corporate boards and exicutives personally responsible for their actions.


I find it interesting you have to have a license to teach, clean teeth, practice law and medicine , open a day care, sell cars, guns, alcohol, cooked food etc... But you don't have to have one to run a trillion dollar corporation into the ground and bankrupt a country...

[rvns14]

Let's unpack this as nonpartisan as possible.

1. GOP is no more "war mongering" then the DNC, both historically and present. I'd argue the opposite since the DNC dragged us into the Civil War, WW1, WW2, Korea and Vietnam.



Sigh, if only they had something reasonable to go to war for like hanging up a mission accomplished banner, not preventing people from being property; truly a dark time in history.

[rvns14]

Despite all the impeachment bs, Trump is still hard at work. Another big win for the American people here.

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/trump-signs-18-billion-autism-cares-act/story?id=66002425

As a parent of a child who has been diagnosed as autistic (although it’s far more complicated than just saying he’s on the spectrum) and the reality of services that are offered to thin running out beyond school this is really great news.

Non partisan, just winning.

I dont have children, not a big win for me.
If Wisconsin hadnt given Foxconn, millions in exchange for them to blow you a kiss, your local funding might provide more.

[Corbic]

Sigh, if only they had something reasonable to go to war for like hanging up a mission accomplished banner, not preventing people from being property; truly a dark time in history.Ummm,

You do realize Lincoln was a Republican, right? The DNC started the war to keep their slaves.

Also, Vietnam... Hmmm helping the French put down a colonial uprising.....

Hmmmm... WWI... Helping the monarchs destroy the world and murder millions over petty pride.

WW2... Hmmmm going to war with Germany... Because of Japan.... Because we want to save Poland... But then sign an agreement to give Poland to the Communists.

Cause, yeah, Half the world under Communist rule is so much better then Europe under Facist Germany. Hmmmm

[lewisfk]

^^wow! I love that flawed history lesson. We should all know about the Dixiecrats and how over time they became Republicans. Can we keep the tread relevant and focus on the last 25 years or so!
FYI Japan would have never attacked the U.S. if we didn't slap them with tariffs, blockaded their shipping lanes, and stop their expansion. Vietnam war started over a lie, the Navy Ship USS Maddox was never attacked.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.history.com/.amp/news/how-the-party-of-lincoln-won-over-the-once-democratic-south

[Corbic]

^^wow! I love that flawed history lesson. We should all know about the Dixiecrats and how over time they became Republicans.

No such thing as a Dixiecrat in 1863. Go back and read a history book.


FYI Japan would have never attacked the U.S. if we didn't slap them with tariffs, blockaded their shipping lanes, and stop their expansion.

The work of the DNC.... To stop the slaughter of millions of Chinese...


Vietnam war started over a lie, the Navy Ship USS Maddox was never attacked.

US had a presence there long before that. And we still had a DNC president and the media carried it.

Again, my point seems to be completely lost on you.

Both Parties push for war because both are full of Olagarch Politicians who benifit. The idea that the GOP is a "war mongering" group is idiotic.

[RalliartRsX]

Corbic. To Note: NO STANDING PRESIDENT can get us into a war unless voted in by Congress!

WW1 - The Vote by Congress was almost unanimous

Two days after the U.S. Senate voted 82 to 6 to declare war against Germany, the U.S. House of Representatives endorses the declaration by a vote of 373 to 50, and America formally enters World War I.

So no, the DNC DID NOT pull us into WWI. Germany torpedoed several ships, including an Italian ship carrying 27 Americans, all who perished at the hands of Germany. In addition, Germany started an all encompassing war against one of our biggest trading partners, an Allied, Britain.

https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/america-enters-world-war-i

WW2 - America remained neutral until Japan bombed Pearl Harbour. Congress only had one dissenting vote against entering war with Japan, and ultimately Germany and Italy.

America's isolation from war ended on December 7, 1941, when Japan staged a surprise attack on American military installations in the Pacific. The most devastating strike came at Pearl Harbor, the Hawaiian naval base where much of the US Pacific Fleet was moored. In a two-hour attack, Japanese warplanes sank or damaged 18 warships and destroyed 164 aircraft. Over 2,400 servicemen and civilians lost their lives.

Though stunned by the events of December 7, Americans were also resolute. On December 8, President Roosevelt asked Congress to declare war against Japan. The declaration passed with just one dissenting vote. Three days later, Germany and Italy, allied with Japan, declared war on the United States. America was now drawn into a global war. It had allies in this fight--most importantly Great Britain and the Soviet Union. But the job the nation faced in December 1941 was formidable.

https://www.nationalww2museum.org/students-teachers/student-resources/research-starters/america-goes-war-take-closer-look

Civil War -
The Democratic Party was formed in 1792, when supporters of Thomas Jefferson began using the name Republicans, or Jeffersonian Republicans, to emphasize its anti-aristocratic policies. It adopted its present name during the Presidency of Andrew Jackson in the 1830s. In the 1840s and '50s, the party was in conflict over extending slavery to the Western territories. Southern Democrats insisted on protecting slavery in all the territories while many Northern Democrats resisted.

The party split over the slavery issue in 1860 at its Presidential convention in Charleston, South Carolina.
Northern Democrats nominated Stephen Douglas as their candidate, and Southern Democrats adopted a pro-slavery platform and nominated John C. Breckinridge in an election campaign that would be won by Abraham Lincoln and the newly formed Republican Party. After the Civil War, most white Southerners opposed Radical Reconstruction and the Republican Party's support of black civil and political rights

https://www.thirteen.org/wnet/jimcrow/stories_org_democratic.html

However, the key is, those Democrats, who supported slavery, ALL SHIFTED TO THE GOP in the 1960s during the Southern Strategy

I am pretty sure you are going to ignore that last line because it doesn't fit your narrative. But whatever. I am not going to argue the rest......You yourself need to go read a book.

1960 TO 1964: RACIAL ISSUES REEMERGE, AND REPUBLICANS MOVE TO THE RIGHT

During the 1950s events such as the Supreme Court’s 1954 ruling ordering schools to desegregate (Brown v. Board of Education ) and the 1957 crisis attending the integration of Central High School in Little Rock, Arkansas, kept civil rights issues on the national agenda. However, the Democratic and Republican parties equivocated on civil rights issues, until 1964. That year, President Lyndon B. Johnson and northern members of Congress from both parties overcame fierce southern Democratic opposition to pass the Civil Rights Act of 1964, which outlawed segregated public places, including most private businesses, and banned employment discrimination. Meanwhile, Republicans moved sharply rightward on racial issues (Carmines and Stimson 1989), nominating Arizona senator Barry Goldwater for the presidency in 1964. Far more conservative on racial issues than previous Republican candidates had been, Goldwater argued forcefully against the Civil Rights Act, emphasizing his view that proper jurisdiction over civil rights policy lay with the states, not the federal government. Goldwater’s argument was not openly racist: He neither vilified blacks nor made openly segregationist appeals, as Thurmond and other southern Democratic politicians had for decades. Nonetheless, Goldwater’s position was enormously attractive to white southerners enraged by the national Democratic Party’s embrace of civil rights laws. President Johnson won a landslide reelection over Goldwater in 1964. But Goldwater carried five Deep South states that had not voted Republican in presidential elections since Reconstruction. The Democratic lock on the South was broken, and issues and developments after 1964 would continue to erode white southerners’ loyalty toward the Democratic Party.

The southern strategy, then, first emerged in 1964 to attract white southerners by positioning the Republican Party as the new political home for racial conservatism (Carmines and Stimson 1989). Columnist Robert Novak (1965) described the southern strategy as encompassing staunch anti-Communism in foreign affairs and conservative appeals for a less activist federal government in domestic affairs, and deemphasizing civil rights without endorsing racial segregation or discrimination, to attract white southerners but avoid alienating moderate whites with raw racial appeals. After 1964 the southern strategy flowered, but with a changing issue focus, favoring more covertly racial issues such as social welfare programs, “law and order,” school busing, and, in the 1980s, affirmative action and violent crime.

https://www.encyclopedia.com/social-sciences/applied-and-social-sciences-magazines/southern-strategy

[RalliartRsX]

Corbic

In terms of the Iraq war, Throughout late 2001, 2002, and early 2003, the Bush Administration (GOP) worked to build a case for invading Iraq. Did you already forget about WMDs??

[RalliartRsX]

And Corbic, I'm going to ask the qusitik question again since you went so far off on your diatribe

What does any of this or the Great New Deal have to do with Obama's recovery? You have zigged and sagged but refuse to answer my original question

[lewisfk]

Corbic, I literally got that information from the history channel, and the link provided. I find it funny how people pick and choose what parts of history to acknowledge when its covenant.

[S14rebuild]

https://www.guns.com/news/2019/10/03/boom-crime-drops-as-numbers-of-ar-15s-grow


So let me guess..its fake? Or lies? Made up facts maybe?

[K_never_broke_again]

https://www.guns.com/news/2019/10/03/boom-crime-drops-as-numbers-of-ar-15s-grow


So let me guess..its fake? Or lies? Made up facts maybe?

No, everything in the article that was presented as a fact was one. However anyone who's taken middle school math should be able to see that the number of violent crimes has nothing to do with the amount of MSRs to market.
Correlation≠Causation. On a side note, the reason so many people want guns like this banned or more strictly regulated isn't because of single deaths or homicides, it's because of mass shootings. banning this stuff isn't going to change those individual deaths, but its sure as hell going to make it harder for the trench coat kid to grab his dads gun and unload a 100 round mag into his high school class, you can't deny that.

[S14rebuild]

But more guns= more gun deaths right?

But "statistically" mass shootings arent even 1% of gun violents

Ban which gun?

https://imgur.com/jHUfAot

Or this one??

https://imgur.com/WDgcbSj

[S14rebuild]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/congresswoman-mocked-for-saying-ar-15-is-as-heavy-as-10-moving-boxes-fires-50-caliber-bullets%3f_amp=true


You seriously cant make this shit up. And these are the "elected" officals that im suppose to sign my rights over to?

This is just pathetic and embrassing.

[exitspeed]

This is great to see. To those in here (they know who they are) that think you can’t be friends people that don’t share your political ideology.

Best shit I’ve ever heard from Ellen.
https://twitter.com/TheEllenShow/status/1181395164499070976?s=20

[S14rebuild]

^My manhood wont let me click that link...

[exitspeed]

^My manhood wont let me click that link...

Try harder.

[S14rebuild]

I tried but my big balls and high testosterone levels just wont let me click it...

[Corbic]

This is great to see. To those in here (they know who they are) that think you can’t be friends people that don’t share your political ideology.



Best shit I’ve ever heard from Ellen.

https://twitter.com/TheEllenShow/status/1181395164499070976?s=20She looks like Odo from Deep Space Nine. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191008/70651b8e235971e1e145642a1c1669ff.jpg

[RalliartRsX]

And just like how Corbic ignored me correcting him on rampant and grossly inaccurate Communist label to the DNC, he also ignores me correcting him on his grossly inaccurate statements about WWI, WW2 and the Civil war....with a derogatory meme in regards to someone's "looks"

Just another day in the office here @ Zilvia :D :D :D
I don't hate the game though. Consistency is key :D

[S14rebuild]

And just like how Corbic ignored me correcting him on rampant and grossly inaccurate Communist label to the DNC, he also ignores me correcting him on his grossly inaccurate statements about WWI, WW2 and the Civil war....with a derogatory meme in regards to someone's "looks"

Just another day in the office here @ Zilvia :D :D :D
I don't hate the game though. Consistency is key :D


Bruhh.....this entire thread is just that......

Lmfao at @derogatory meme....... fukn snowflakes everywhere now a days

[RalliartRsX]

U mad bro? I ain't :)

[S14rebuild]

Not one bit...cant get mad over this thread..its ridiclous makes me laugh during my day

[Corbic]

Bruhh.....this entire thread is just that......



Lmfao at @derogatory meme....... fukn snowflakes everywhere now a daysYup, best to just ignore them.

[lewisfk]

And just like how Corbic ignored me correcting him on rampant and grossly inaccurate Communist label to the DNC, he also ignores me correcting him on his grossly inaccurate statements about WWI, WW2 and the Civil war....with a derogatory meme in regards to someone's "looks"

Just another day in the office here @ Zilvia :D :D :D
I don't hate the game though. Consistency is key :D


This is exactly how Dallas Fans act, we Dem Boys.

[Corbic]

https://youtu.be/9-SLqdhkvJo

[S14rebuild]

But more guns= more gun deaths right?

But "statistically" mass shootings arent even 1% of gun violents

Ban which gun?

https://imgur.com/jHUfAot

Or this one??

https://imgur.com/WDgcbSj




Anyone?........ignore this too?

[S14rebuild]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/congresswoman-mocked-for-saying-ar-15-is-as-heavy-as-10-moving-boxes-fires-50-caliber-bullets%3f_amp=true


You seriously cant make this shit up. And these are the "elected" officals that im suppose to sign my rights over to?

This is just pathetic and embrassing.


Ignore this stupidity im guessing?

[lewisfk]

https://youtu.be/9-SLqdhkvJo

WOW, this guy is special.

[S14rebuild]

Uhhhhhhhhhhhh

[TheRealSy90]

So this thread is basically: Post your opinions and ignore rebuttals.

[exitspeed]

So this thread is basically: Post your opinions and ignore rebuttals.

100%.

Totally useless.

[S14rebuild]

So this thread is basically: Post your opinions and ignore rebuttals.

Been done said that



But some how this seems all so legit..like post to urself

[Future240]

We know the righties in this thread are all Trump at this point.

Lefties in this thread I am curious to know. Who has your support and why?

[Corbic]

We know the righties in this thread are all Trump at this point.

Lefties in this thread I am curious to know. Who has your support and why?Conspiracy theories are they will drag Michelle Obama out last minute as a puppet candidate.

[S14rebuild]

Conspiracy theories are they will drag Michelle Obama out last minute as a puppet candidate.

Id stick my dick in her but she would never get my vote

[lewisfk]

We know the righties in this thread are all Trump at this point.

Lefties in this thread I am curious to know. Who has your support and why?

I prefer Warren due to her track record, and she is a financial guru. She wrote a majority of the financial consumer reform bills, and contributed to Obama's economic success. Biden is the logical choice!

[S14rebuild]

I prefer Warren due to her track record, and she is a financial guru. She wrote a majority of the financial consumer reform bills, and contributed to Obama's economic success. Biden is the logical choice!

This Biden?....

https://youtu.be/-wXGgL9haEg


Yup...seems like logical guy


I mean sumone who served this country and has ownd firearms..i would imagine youd have a little intelligence.

[lewisfk]

Nice dig, but I addressed this in a pervious post how dumbasses like yourself would not vote for a women. Heres to your witty come back.

[S14rebuild]

Nice dig, but I addressed this in a pervious post how dumbasses like yourself would not vote for a women. Heres to your witty come back.


Nice dig? Nothing was intended to hurt ur feelings. I was just showing you what a smart intelligent man biden is!


Lets not get urself upset and have name calling....

You show me a woman with true Republican values and a pair of balls...Ill vote for her!:cool:

[RalliartRsX]

"This move by the president will result in a restrengthening of ISIS." -- James Mattis.

[lewisfk]

^^ Even worse, the Kurds will be our enemy. The Kurds have fought alongside the U.S. since Desert Storm and we have spent billions on equipment and training. If our allies do not stop Turkey, we will pay with the blood of our military and civilians. The Kurds do not forget!

[Corbic]

^^ Even worse, the Kurds will be our enemy. The Kurds have fought alongside the U.S. since Desert Storm and we have spent billions on equipment and training. If our allies do not stop Turkey, we will pay with the blood of our military and civilians. The Kurds do not forget!So what.

Seriously. So what.

So what if Iran gains influence, Iraq and Turkey kill all the Kurds and Russia keeps Asad in power.

So what if the Kurds fall back in line with Asad to fight Turkey.


Why isn't Nato or the EU doing shit about Turkey, a member state? Why is it our problem?

Don't want Turkey violating Syian boarders and killing Kurds? Maybe we should... *shock*


Let the Russians stabilize the region and restore governmental power and end the Civil War.

We just had pages of ya'll calling Trump/GOP war mongers and now that Trump wants out of this Syria mess.... Your crying we need to go to. War with Russia, Iran and Turkey....

[Corbic]

"This move by the president will result in a restrengthening of ISIS." -- James Mattis.And yet a year ago you cried James Mattias was a mad man war monger, now your all about him.

The fuck man.

Do you want to go to war for 15 years with Syria and Turkey? Do you want 3k dead Americans, 40k crippled vetrans and trillions of debt?..

Kurds, Arabs and Pursians have been killing each other since Alexander the Great. We're not about to change that by sprinkling some cash and bombs.

[Corbic]

^^ Even worse, the Kurds will be our enemy. The Kurds have fought alongside the U.S. since Desert Storm and we have spent billions on equipment and training. If our allies do not stop Turkey, we will pay with the blood of our military and civilians. The Kurds do not forget!Literally You

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191014/74ada2ab3ae5eba248a6b9a16a6a51dd.jpg

[S14rebuild]

^LMFAO




cant wait to read replies

[lewisfk]

^^ Your awesome, I love the way you make fun of genocide! Russia has answered the Kurds call for help. I will set back and watch this shit show that the POTUS started, and hope or Spec Ops Community doesn't have to clean it up!

[Corbic]

^^ Your awesome, I love the way you make fun of genocide! Russia has answered the Kurds call for help. I will set back and watch this shit show that the POTUS started, and hope or Spec Ops Community doesn't have to clean it up!How did Trump start shit!?

He's choosing to disengage a bit further stir a pot of vomit and shit.

If Russian has "answered the call for help", then why do we need too? I thought Russia was evil and had to be stopped? Why are you not expecting France and Germany to control their boy Turkey?

Funny, how ya'll leftist cried about Trump cutting Turkey off from the JSF program...

Funny, your upset about "Kurdish Genocide", but litterally a dozen posts back are defending China and bitching about Trump's trade war with the Undisturbed World Champion, 70 years in a row, the King of Fucking Genocide - China.

[RalliartRsX]

Corbic: The man with little idea of history and how exactly ISIS came about and what very important role the Kurds played in (according to trump) "defeating" ISIS. Allied is is a word which comes to mind. Also, If you take the time to even bother to read, you would realize of the 11,000 of prisoners the Kurds currently house, several hundred of those are ISIS fighters and which they are doing at the behest of the US. If the Kurds need to go to war to protect themselves and unable to guard the prisoners, those very same ISIS fighters will be released into society. The Kurds themselves essentially said as much recently.

So now, not only do you have ISIS fighters returning to the battlefield trump claimed he conquered, now trump has essentially fostered another enemy in the case of the Kurds, as trump essentially left them to be slaughtered by Turkey, which could easily degrade into a SEPARATE, additional ISIS group. I am so happy that Corbic is so patriotic to want another 9-11. Good job Corbic....

And Corbic, please point out anywhere in my posts I said Mattis was a war monger.

It's like you live in a completely alternative universe, making up shit as you go, posting random unrelated memes and overall, just being angry at the sky. The grump old men thread serves you well

lol!

[lewisfk]

Corbic great FOX talking points! What does China have to do with the Kurds? Do you have ADHD? China is not our alley, and has nothing to do with the War on Terror. They have their own human rights issues they need to address, and this POTUS is ill equipped to solve.

[Corbic]

Corbic: The man with little idea of history and how exactly ISIS came about and what very important role the Kurds played in (according to trump) "defeating" ISIS.

ISIS came about because the US decided to over throw Sadam, bring democracy to Iraq which created a single party dominated ethnic-state that retaliated against the former Suni rulers... who then responded with violence to overthrow the government.


Allied is is a word which comes to mind.

You mean like Turkey and Iraq? Honestly, it sounds like you have no idea what the issue with the Kurds or any of the back story here.

Also, If you take the time to even bother to read, you would realize of the 11,000 of prisoners the Kurds currently house, several hundred of those are ISIS fighters

So what?


and which they are doing at the behest of the US. If the Kurds need to go to war to protect themselves and unable to guard the prisoners, those very same ISIS fighters will be released into society. The Kurds themselves essentially said as much recently.

So wait, are the Kurds fighting ISIS or only holding ISIS prisoners because they want to suck up to the US? Sounds like you are contradicting you own argument.

So now, not only do you have ISIS fighters returning to the battlefield trump claimed he conquered

So, in your brain, the Kurds will release ISIS Prisoners they captured back onto the battlefield... to fight them again... because why again?


now trump has essentially fostered another enemy in the case of the Kurds,

Since you and Lewinsky are both spouting this, I'm guessing this is what MSNBC is saying? Trump is making a Kurdish Joker now? Aren't you worried about the Syrian or Turkish Joker he'll make by starting another war?


as trump essentially left them to be slaughtered by Turkey, which could easily degrade into a SEPARATE, additional ISIS group.

And this is all Orange Mans fault. Germany, France and England have nothing to do with this? They have no obligation despite their own fucking ally is the source of the sour grapes? Why is no one else in the EU or NATO obliged to control their homie?


I am so happy that Corbic is so patriotic to want another 9-11. Good job Corbic....

You know, we could just go back to Obama's Muslim Ban.. the one that once Trump took over became the most RACIST thing ever... REEEEE

Also, if the Turks are going to slaughter all the Kurds... there won't be a Kurdish Joker.... because their all gone.

And Corbic, please point out anywhere in my posts I said Mattis was a war monger.

I'm not wasting time digging through the archives of Zilvia for your disparaging statements about Mattis.

The reality is, you hate Trump. Trump did something, therefore you hate it. If Trump bombed Turkey and pledge to join with Russia and deploy 300k soldiers to save Syrian Kurds... you'd be screaming he sold out to the Russians, wants to start WW3 and is wasting Trillions of dollars and ignoring his problems back home.


It's like you live in a completely alternative universe, making up shit as you go, posting random unrelated memes and overall, just being angry at the sky. The grump old men thread serves you well

lol!

Again, the problem here is I just don't feel like trying to explain the nuanced details to someone as dim witted as you and Lewinsky. I've now asked about NATO and the EU's responsibility 3 times and neither of you have even began to ponder it, likely because Rachal Madcow hasn't brought it up.

Ultimately the Kurds want to be an autonomous nation and the only way to do that is to carve out chunks from Turkey, Iran, Syria and Iraq. Go back in time and thank Churchill and the British Empire for this problem.

You can't be Turkey's ally if you are wanting to split off their sovereign land. You can't prop up Iraq as the regional counter balance to Iran (as we did in the 80's) if you carve Iraq up into 3 separate nations.

Syria, is just like Libya. You bump off Assad and the most violent and blood thirsty group will take over because they have the will to power. This would be ISIS or some form of them. The moderates, the educated, the peace loving will all continue to flee to Europe.

If you wanted stability and an end to violence in Syria, you should have backed Assad and the Russians 10 years ago. Put down the rebellion, crushed the Suni rebels and would have been over. Instead the US/Obama choose to support the uprising which became a splintered series of competing groups with no one having enough power to ultimately win and seize the throne.

Do you even know why Turkey is suddenly acting schizophrenic? Layout your game plan to save the Kurds, you going to plunge Turkey into a civil war?

Again, funny how all of a sudden you care about the Kurds because "oh no, Genocide! The Turks killed a Reporter!!!" yet we where just talking about China and you could give a shit less - never mind the millions in concentration camps, the tens of thousands executed each year, the thousands gutted for their organs, assassination of party members, reporters and businessmen. Forced breeding programs to eliminate the Tibetans, reeducation and forced conversion of Muslims. Oh yeah, and #FreeHongKong


But hey! Anderson Cooper said Trump made a bad call today! ORANGE MAN BAD.

[RalliartRsX]

I will answer a single question; EU responsibility.

So, why should the EU be responsible for what the US started Allied or not?? Just like how you want the US to be pulled out of all these wars because what goes on in other countries is none of our business, why then, on the same token, you state the EU should be also be held responsible for siting on the sidelines for a mess the US created??

You cannot have it both ways.

[RalliartRsX]

P.S Who is Anderson Cooper?? No seriously??

[lewisfk]

Corbic, Actually the POTUSjust said the Kurds are releasing ISIS fighter in hopes the U.S. comes back without any proof! He said this today.

[Corbic]

Corbic, Actually the POTUSjust said the Kurds are releasing ISIS fighter in hopes the U.S. comes back without any proof! He said this today.Which is not at all what Rallifart is saying.

It goes along with what I, Turkey and everyone else is saying.

Kurds are instigating trouble to draw the US into Syria and Turkey in hopes of getting us to give them a homeland.

[Corbic]

I will answer a single question; EU responsibility.

So, why should the EU be responsible for what the US started Allied or not?? Just like how you want the US to be pulled out of all these wars because what goes on in other countries is none of our business, why then, on the same token, you state the EU should be also be held responsible for siting on the sidelines for a mess the US created??

You cannot have it both ways.How is this the US fault?

Did the US start the Syrian Civil War? Did we create the boarders of the modern Middle East? Did we create the three thousand years of ethnic conflict?

Again, what is your solution?

The US attacks a sovergin NATO/EU state, kill millions and force them to give up portions of their national boarders so the Kurds get their own country?

Why are you not demanding Trump send troops to Hong Kong or Tibet?

[Corbic]

Again,

You all are falling for the bait to get sucked into another 15 year, trillion dollar war that ultimately will solve nothing.

https://youtu.be/Ca-_YRiRsBk

Actual interviews with "gas attack" survivors stating there was no gas.

Plenty out there debunking the whole "Assad used nerve gas" narrative.

[RalliartRsX]

Which is not at all what Rallifart is saying.

It goes along with what I, Turkey and everyone else is saying.

Kurds are instigating trouble to draw the US into Syria and Turkey in hopes of getting us to give them a homeland.

Why would the Kurds do this?? Within hours of trumps withdrawal Turkey started the invasions and the slaughter began immediately.

Why would the Kurds partake in the genocide of their people to draw the US into Syria?? More so, to draw the US into Syria and pull support from themselves?? The same US which the Kurds stood side by side with the US in the fight of ISIS?? Wouldn't the Kurds, with the US as thier Ally prior to trump, be in a much better position to chode thr US into having the US reclaim the land for the Kurds??

So they wait until trump withdrawals............to try to bring the US back into Syria?? How in the world does that make any sense??

Erdogan has said, even before all this, he wanted to essentially clear the lands of the Kurds and essentially claim it as his own. Nothing to do with the Kurds "instigating". Everything to do with the Oppressive regime of Turkey and wanted to dominate land. Without the US, the kurds would be whipped off the face of the planet.........which is currently exactly what is happening.

Why would the kurds take such steps to essentially commit mass genocide of it's own people?? Corbic, think about that for a sec.

[Corbic]

Why would the Kurds do this?? Within hours of trumps withdrawal Turkey started the invasions and the slaughter began immediately.



Why would the Kurds partake in the genocide of their people to draw the US into Syria?? More so, to draw the US into Syria and pull support from themselves?? The same US which the Kurds stood side by side with the US in the fight of ISIS?? Wouldn't the Kurds, with the US as thier Ally prior to trump, be in a much better position to chode thr US into having the US reclaim the land for the Kurds??



So they wait until trump withdrawals............to try to bring the US back into Syria?? How in the world does that make any sense??



Erdogan has said, even before all this, he wanted to essentially clear the lands of the Kurds and essentially claim it as his own. Nothing to do with the Kurds "instigating". Everything to do with the Oppressive regime of Turkey and wanted to dominate land. Without the US, the kurds would be whipped off the face of the planet.........which is currently exactly what is happening.



Why would the kurds take such steps to essentially commit mass genocide of it's own people?? Corbic, think about that for a sec.Again, stop with the nonsense Rhetoric.


What is the solution you think you have?

[RalliartRsX]

Thank you for addressing the gapping hole in your argument and time and time again, failing to answer any of my question

The solution: not leave the Kurds to get whipped off the face of the earth....

You should probably keep yelling at the sky lol

[lewisfk]

Which is not at all what Rallifart is saying.

It goes along with what I, Turkey and everyone else is saying.

Kurds are instigating trouble to draw the US into Syria and Turkey in hopes of getting us to give them a homeland.


Kurds are not instigating anything, they got left to the wolves. Under this administration the Kurds are nothing but a pawn, used and left to die. The POTUS even questioned if the Kurds are a true alley, because they didn't help fight in WWII. Please let that sink in, the Kurd didn't have a country until 1992.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/10/14/us-kurdish-relationship-history-syria-turkey-betrayal-kissinger/

[rvns14]

Anyone?........ignore this too?

Couple days old, working, etc...

Violent crime dropped in the 90s, after Roe v. Wade.

Culturally, gun ownership is ending on its own like smoking.

And, pro tip, dont befriend war criminals (ellen).

[S14rebuild]

Couple days old, working, etc...

Violent crime dropped in the 90s, after Roe v. Wade.

Culturally, gun ownership is ending on its own like smoking.

And, pro tip, dont befriend war criminals (ellen).



Gun ownership is higher more now then ever...i dont know where ur gettn ur facts from

[lewisfk]

Here you go. There are many more examples. Gun sales are going down, they will only go up if a Democrat wins the Presidency. The NRA will use fear to increase sales.











https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41488081

[S14rebuild]

^glad this guy uses the bbc to report on US information....seems legit.

[lewisfk]

^^ Actually the data came from Pew Research, you can see their name located on the bottom lefts of the graph. Pew Research is well known for its statistical data and its authenticity!

[Corbic]

The solution: not leave the Kurds to get whipped off the face of the earth....

What does that even mean. That is not an actionable plan. That is like saying "I support education and think kids should be smart" - that has no policy or action behind it.

How do you "not leave the kurds"? What does that look like.


You should probably keep yelling at the sky lol

I don't think you understand what that phrase even means.


Kurds are not instigating anything, they got left to the wolves. Under this administration the Kurds are nothing but a pawn, used and left to die. The POTUS even questioned if the Kurds are a true alley, because they didn't help fight in WWII. Please let that sink in, the Kurd didn't have a country until 1992.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/10/14/us-kurdish-relationship-history-syria-turkey-betrayal-kissinger/

I literally covered everything in that article.



Kurds are not instigating anything, they got left to the wolves.



Starting in mid-1962, the Shah of Iran ordered his intelligence agency, SAVAK, to help finance the Kurdish insurgency in northern Iraq to undermine the stability of the regime in Baghdad.


Clearly states there is a hundred years of the Kurds fighting insurgencies for independence and flip flopping sides to benefit their own goal. There are plenty of videos and articles about Kurdish raiders murdering Turks and fleeing across the boarder to hide in Syria. Killed over 100 people at a water works facility just recently. Is this all Kurds and Kurdish Paramilitaries? No, but it's enough to blur the lines.


The history extends back to 1920, when the Kurds, the largest ethnic group in the world not to have a state of their own, were promised autonomy in the Treaty of Sèvres. But the two great powers of the day, Britain and France, reneged in 1923 and carved up the Kurdish territories into modern-day Turkey, Iran, Iraq, and Syria. The Kurds rebelled against this betrayal and were crushed by their new British, French, Iranian, and Turkish colonizers.

Holy Fuck, just like I said!?!


Ultimately the Kurds want to be an autonomous nation and the only way to do that is to carve out chunks from Turkey, Iran, Syria and Iraq. Go back in time and thank Churchill and the British Empire for this problem.


Under this administration the Kurds are nothing but a pawn, used and left to die. The POTUS even questioned if the Kurds are a true alley, because they didn't help fight in WWII

Again, your very own article counters this by saying the Kurds have been a tool for everyone in the region for a hundred years. This has nothing to do with Orange Man Bad.


However, two close American allies in the region—Israel and Iran—quickly concluded that the Iraqi Kurds were ideological and strategic allies who could be exploited to keep the radical Arab nationalist regime in Baghdad—and its large military—tied down


That’s why, despite a deep affinity for the Kurds and their cause, the United States has always been clear—to itself, if not always in public—about its reluctance to support Kurdish independence.

So just like the other guy - what is you actual solution.

Are you going to create a Kurd homeland by force? Convince Iran, Iraq, Syria and Turkey to carve out parts of their countries, give up their regional oil rights, abandon Non-Kurds left behind and recognize a new nation?

Are you going to start conducting retaliatory bombings on Turkey, a NATO member, an EU partner? The poster child for a democratic liberal Islamic nation?

What are you going to do about Syria? Continue supporting various paramilitary quasi terrorist groups to overthrow some dude because he's an asshole? Then what? The country implodes like Libya. Are you going to support Russia and try and end the war and bring stability and law an order back?

[Corbic]

Here you go. There are many more examples. Gun sales are going down, they will only go up if a Democrat wins the Presidency. The NRA will use fear to increase sales.


NRA has never once convinced me to do shit. However fucking idiots in congress ranting and raving about taking rifles and AWB and new taxes and import restrictions certainly have.

You need to get into the hobby and community more and you'll understand. Vast majority of us hate the NRA as a bunch of money grabbing limp dicks. The problem is, they are the only civil rights group that stands up for us.

[S14rebuild]

https://gunowners.org

[lewisfk]

^^ Actually I belong to a local gun group and my current Commanding Officer is a Navy Seal & CIA recruiter here in Austin Texas. We discuss gun rights and politics through the lens of actual boots on ground and force shaping of the U.S. Navy. I'm well aware of the NRA and I became a member when I completed Hunter Safety back in 1996. I slowly lost interest once I joined the military and actual learned how they do business!

[Corbic]

Here you go. There are many more examples. Gun sales are going down, they will only go up if a Democrat wins the Presidency. The NRA will use fear to increase sales.

One chart doesn't make an article true. BBC is absolutely a propaganda machine and should be given as much credibility as you would Info Wars.

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/B3A8/production/_98129954_gun_price_640-nc.png


This is factually wrong. Typical AR pattern rifle is $500 to $800 today. An average 9mm pistol is $550. Only a few ultra trashy pistols retail for $200, think Diamond Back.


https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/FBC1/production/_108194446_optimised-usguns640-nc.png

I love this shit... OMFG $5 MILLION DOLLARSSSSS

[rvns14]

There are more guns, owned by fewer owners; like 240sxs now, several owners have many.
I also agree, the NRA is a marketing exercise; I support gun owners rights to have guns, but the NRA is bad news and more owners should be members of more responsible groups.

[lewisfk]

I call this the Beto Bounce! 2016 was the Hillary effect!


https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/30/us-gun-sales-down-6point1-percent-in-2018-extending-trump-slump.html

https://freebeacon.com/issues/monthly-gun-sales-up-10-percent-since-last-september/

https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/data-statistics

[Corbic]

There are more guns, owned by fewer owners; like 240sxs now, several owners have many.
I also agree, the NRA is a marketing exercise; I support gun owners rights to have guns, but the NRA is bad news and more owners should be members of more responsible groups.I call this the Beto Bounce! 2016 was the Hillary effect!


https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/30/us-gun-sales-down-6point1-percent-in-2018-extending-trump-slump.html

https://freebeacon.com/issues/monthly-gun-sales-up-10-percent-since-last-september/

https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/data-statisticsAlready gave up on the Kurds?

[lewisfk]

No I did not! I just proved my point with gun sales! To sum this up, the Kurds were left to be slaughter while the POTUS makes up lies justifying troop withdrawal. Republicans are outrage and begging the POTUS to reconsider troop withdrawal. WHY?

[Corbic]

No I did not! I just proved my point with gun sales! To sum this up, the Kurds were left to be slaughter while the POTUS makes up lies justifying troop withdrawal. Republicans are out rage and begging the POTUS to reconsider troop withdrawal. WHY?Military Industrial Complex.

We've covered this multiple times in the last few pages.

So you want Trump to invade Turkey?

[lewisfk]

^^What are you talking about? Turkey is invading Syria, because the U.S. left. Russia has taken the helm and directed Turkey not to go beyond 10 kilometers into Syria. If Turkey refuses and continues, this could lead to a bigger war. This will give plenty of time for ISIS to regroup and launch more attacks.