the extreme end of capital punishment? - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

*brndck* · 12-29-2009, 10:29 AM

China executes Briton despite UK, family pleas - Yahoo! News

CLIFFS: china executed a british man for smuggling 9lbs of heroin into the country. the uk claims he was mentally unbalanced.

is this too extreme? many of us in the u.s. wish we had stricter punishment for criminals, but where do you draw the line? how far is too far?
discuss.

Quote:

URUMQI, China – China brushed aside international appeals Tuesday and executed by lethal injection a British drug smuggler who relatives say was mentally unstable and unwittingly lured into crime.

British Prime Minister Gordon Brown said he was "appalled" at the execution of 53-year old Akmal Shaikh — China's first of a European citizen in nearly 60 years. His government summoned the Chinese ambassador in London to express its anger.

China defended its handling of the case, saying there had not been documentary proof Shaikh was mentally ill. Beijing also criticized Brown's comments, but said it hoped the case would not harm bilateral relations. The Foreign Ministry called on London not to create any "obstacles" to better ties.

Shaikh's daughter Leilla Horsnell was quoted by the BBC and other British media outlets as saying she was "shocked and disappointed that the execution went ahead with no regards to my dad's mental health problems, and I struggle to understand how this is justice."

The execution is the latest sign of how China's communist government, with its rising global economic and political clout, is increasingly willing to defy Western complaints over its justice system and human rights record.

Last week, a court sentenced the co-author of a political reform manifesto to 11 years in prison in what rights groups called a direct rebuff to international pressure. Diplomats from more than a dozen countries were shut out of Liu Xiaobo's trial on subversion charges. The United States called for his immediate release.

Earlier in the month, China urged Cambodia to interrupt a U.N. refugee screening process and subsequently Phnom Penh repatriated 20 ethnic Uighur asylum seekers accused of involvement in ethnic unrest in western China.

Shaikh, a Briton of Pakistani descent, was arrested in 2007 for carrying a suitcase with almost 9 pounds (4 kilograms) of heroin into China on a flight from Tajikistan. He told Chinese officials he didn't know about the drugs and that the suitcase wasn't his, according to Reprieve, a London-based prisoner advocacy group that is helping with his case.

He was convicted in 2008 after a half-hour trial.

He first learned he was about to be executed Monday from his visiting cousins, who made a last-minute plea for his life. They say he is mentally unstable and was lured to China from a life on the street in Poland by men playing on his dreams to record a pop song for world peace.

The press office of the Xinjiang region where Shaikh had been held confirmed the execution in a statement handed to journalists.

In his statement issued by the Foreign Office, Brown said he condemned the execution "in the strongest terms, and am appalled and disappointed that our persistent requests for clemency have not been granted."

"I am particularly concerned that no mental health assessment was undertaken," Brown said.

The Foreign Office said Foreign Minister Ivan Lewis on Tuesday had reiterated to China's ambassador, Fu Ying, statements by Brown and Foreign Secretary David Miliband condemning Shaikh's execution.

Brown had spoken personally to China's prime minister about the case. Miliband had earlier condemned the execution and said there were unanswered questions about the trial — including over whether there was adequate interpretation during the trial.

Chinese Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Jiang Yu responded that drug smuggling was a serious crime.

"We express our strong dissatisfaction and opposition to the British accusation," Jiang told a regularly scheduled news conference in Beijing.

The official Xinhua News Agency quoted China's Supreme Court as saying Tuesday that although officials from the British Embassy and a British aid organization called for a mental health examination for Shaikh, "the documents they provided could not prove he had a mental disorder nor did members of his family have a history of mental disease."

"There is no reason to cast doubt on Akmal Shaikh's mental status," the Supreme Court was quoted as saying.

Xinhua said Shaikh was put to death by lethal injection. China, which executes more people than any other country, is increasingly doing so by lethal injection, although some death sentences are still carried out by a shot in the head.

The Beijing-based lawyer for Shaikh's death sentence review, Zhang Qingsong, said Tuesday he never got to meet with Shaikh despite asking the judge and the detention center for access. He said China's highest court never evaluated Shaikh's mental status.

According to Reprieve, the last European executed in China was Antonio Riva, an Italian pilot who was shot by a firing squad in 1951 after being convicted of involvement in what China said was a plot to assassinate Mao Zedong and other high-ranking communist officials.

"The death of Akmal Shaikh is a sad indictment of today's world, and particularly of China's legal system. ... We at Reprieve are sickened by what we have seen during our work on this case," said Sally Rowen, legal director of Reprieve's death penalty team.

Reprieve issued a statement from Shaikh's family members saying they expressed "their grief at the Chinese decision to refuse mercy."

The statement thanked supporters, including those who attended a vigil for Shaikh outside the Chinese Embassy in London on Monday night, along with members of a Facebook group that drew 5,000 members in just a few days.

The statement asked the media and public to respect the family's privacy as they "come to terms with what has happened to someone they loved."

Gareth Saunders, a British teacher who knew Shaikh in Warsaw, said his friend was cheerful but obviously very mentally ill. He said the last time they met in an underpass, Shaikh said he was traveling to Central Asia but would return in two weeks.

"I tried to contact after two weeks, no reply. that was the last time I tried to contact him," Saunders told The Associated Press.

Brian · 12-29-2009, 10:37 AM

I don't feel that he deserved the punishment.

*slider2828* · 12-29-2009, 11:16 AM

We can't use our countries view on capital punishment against other countries IMO. In China, Thailand, and Singapore, if your caught, you will get the death penalty period. If you look at those area's history with drugs such as opium and the such, I think its valid. Current day laws are based on the history of the country as it is considered past precedence.

Also in those areas, drug offenses are considered much more serious than it is here.

murda-c · 12-29-2009, 11:23 AM

it's cool they just drive the price of drugs up and I make more money.

rb26man · 12-29-2009, 11:33 AM

i say punishment should fit the crime and that totally didnt fit

ryguy · 12-29-2009, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rb26man

i say punishment should fit the crime and that totally didnt fit

All depends on your viewpoint. 9 pounds of heroin is surely enough to effectively end the lives of other people. However, I disagree with the way China handled the mental disease aspect.

I personally think we should take a tougher stance on punishment in America.

aznpoopy · 12-29-2009, 11:48 AM

death penalty for drug smuggling? i'm totally down with that.

due process is another matter entirely. haha. US has a bit too much. but china has practically none at all.

driftking777 · 12-29-2009, 11:54 AM

I know this is going to seem brash, but laws like this, although might be harsh, keep honest people honest, and take scum of the streets.

I personally hate the way Americas Judicial system works. You can be a convicted murderer (and admit to it) and sit on death row for years. What a waste of tax payers money. And we wonder why there is over crowding in the prison system. Then im sure someone will say something about the mentally unstable, but thats a another topic almost in itself.

i have a much much longer speech, but my son is crying. so im ending this now...

g6civcx · 12-29-2009, 11:58 AM

Other countries don't value human life as much as America. What's left to discuss?

*slider2828* · 12-29-2009, 12:02 PM

Pfffft... the mental aspect of what? He was able to buy 9LBS of Heroin... Come on... 1stly he was able to buy 9lbs of it somewhere.... If someone has a line to buy 9lbs on the street let me know cause it ain't that easy. 2ndly, he sane enough not to take 9lbs of it himself. 3rdly 9lbs being smuggled into china means he had a means of slangin it, so he can't be stupid. 4th, he was caught with it.... (what else is needed). 5th, its like OJ being smeared with Nicole's blood. He couldn't get off, now if it was heroin on the dudes glove then maybe hahahah

driftking777 · 12-29-2009, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aznpoopy

death penalty for drug smuggling? i'm totally down with that.

due process is another matter entirely. haha. US has a bit too much. but china has practically none at all.

agreed. msglenth

driftking777 · 12-29-2009, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by g6civcx

Other countries don't value human life as much as America. What's left to discuss?

No some countries have zero tolerance for fuck ups. Neither do i. People make mistakes. But running drugs isnt a mistake, its a life choice.

Matej · 12-29-2009, 12:12 PM

Every criminal suddenly has a mental disorder.

driftking777 · 12-29-2009, 12:13 PM

btw, before this gets locked for becoming political or anti whatever, it should probably be moved to new OT section (whatever its called)

murda-c · 12-29-2009, 12:14 PM

Why don't the chinese just stop buying the drugs?

g6civcx · 12-29-2009, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by driftking777

No some countries have zero tolerance for fuck ups. Neither do i. People make mistakes. But running drugs isnt a mistake, its a life choice.

Or they have a population problem.

driftking777 · 12-29-2009, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by g6civcx

Or they have a population problem.

Yes china does have a population problem. So does alot of nations (Japan for one)

Which in my mind further proves the point, why allow all these fucks ups run the streets after you catch them? You shouldnt, there are plenty of good people in the world that prefer it to be safer. I know i do. Catching and releasing criminals is not on my list of "Its OK"

g6civcx · 12-29-2009, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by driftking777

Yes china does have a population problem. So does alot of nations (Japan for one)

Which in my mind further proves the point, why allow all these fucks ups run the streets after you catch them? You shouldnt, there are plenty of good people in the world that prefer it to be safer. I know i do. Catching and releasing criminals is not on my list of "Its OK"

I have no issue with capital punishment and the crimes for which capital punishment may be prescribed.

I do have an issue with the standard of proof. How much is beyond reasonable doubt? 99.9%? 99? 95? 90%?

Do we need eyewitness testimony? video evidence? forensic evidence? How much is enough to be sure the person is guilty?

There is always a slight bit of doubt with every conviction. I just don't know how much would be enough to overturn a capital punishment sentence.

drift_limo · 12-30-2009, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slider2828

We can't use our countries view on capital punishment against other countries IMO. In China, Thailand, and Singapore, if your caught, you will get the death penalty period. If you look at those area's history with drugs such as opium and the such, I think its valid. Current day laws are based on the history of the country as it is considered past precedence.

Also in those areas, drug offenses are considered much more serious than it is here.

so true.

I heard people in thailand that are from other countrys get cought and get the death penalty.

god bless america for real.
or else im pretty some in here would be on zilvia in cell block D right now.

upsdude · 12-30-2009, 08:04 PM

at least china has the balls to stand up to other countries and protects its sovereignty.. unlike the U.S. who bends over to whatever the U.N. wants, and apologizes for everything that is perceived as inappropriate. i'm not saying that china doesn't trample on it's citizens rights.

ronmcdon · 12-31-2009, 06:37 AM

Well, it is their laws and customs.
Dont go if you dont like it.
Its not like there are any surprises.

Tbh - i was actually surprised this was the 2nd european killed since the 1950's.
That seems very forgiving.

murda-c · 12-31-2009, 07:02 AM

Jeez guys it's just heroin.

not like it was anthrax lol.

*kingkilburn* · 12-31-2009, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by driftking777

Yes china does have a population problem. So does alot of nations (Japan for one)

Japan's population problem is that it is very sharply going down. No one's having any kids. The death to birth ratio is like 2/.75 or something along those lines. Even with immigration they can't keep up.

It probably a good thing for them though.

Brian · 12-31-2009, 01:43 PM

USA has a population problem.

have you guys driven in Southern California?

Weedm · 12-31-2009, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian

USA has a population problem.

have you guys driven in Southern California?

Hahaha. Everyday and I can't agree more. Doesn't matter what freeway you're on, if it's during week day rush hours you're certainly due to hit traffic regardless.

Back to the topic. I don't think the guy deserved a death sentence. A jail sentence for a certain amount of years would have been a better verdict in my opinion. Regardless of how harshly strict their drug smuggling laws are, ending a human life over such a crime is not correct. But that's just an opinion from someone who is from America.

Forgiving is to set a prisoner free, and realizing that the prisoner was you.

drift_limo · 12-31-2009, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian

USA has a population problem.

have you guys driven in Southern California?

no thats mexico we took it back.
lol

china has a bad population problem.

but as for there punishment I think they should. heroin is up there as one of the worse drugs and anybody that does it is just a loser.
so im glad they are gettin the death penalty. They should do the same for meth,coke and heroin addicts here in the US.

theicecreamdan · 12-31-2009, 07:24 PM

If somebody brought 9 pounds of heroin into my house I'd probably kill them... so.

HalveBlue · 01-06-2010, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drift_limo

They should do the same for meth,coke and heroin addicts here in the US.

Why?

usdm180sx · 01-06-2010, 09:12 AM

Who saw that movie "Red Corner" with Richard Gere back in 1997? He was an attorney in China charged with murder but it was a total setup. If he was found guilty the Chinese court was going to shoot him and mail his family a bill for the bullet.

ronmcdon · 01-06-2010, 11:02 AM

Wow, that film was older than id care to admit.
some things dont change much.

still it seems tame in comparison, to say Midnight Express in the late 70's
Dude was also busted for smuggling drugs.
No execution involved, but he was stuck in a miserable Turkish jail

12-29-2009, 10:37 AM	#2
Brian Post Whore! Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: usa Posts: 12,840 Trader Rating: (54) Rides Gallery: Brian Feedback Score: 54 reviews	I don't feel that he deserved the punishment. __________________ http://bhworld.wordpress.com/

12-29-2009, 11:16 AM	#3
slider2828 Premium Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 5,824 Trader Rating: (13) Feedback Score: 13 reviews	We can't use our countries view on capital punishment against other countries IMO. In China, Thailand, and Singapore, if your caught, you will get the death penalty period. If you look at those area's history with drugs such as opium and the such, I think its valid. Current day laws are based on the history of the country as it is considered past precedence. Also in those areas, drug offenses are considered much more serious than it is here. __________________ Turn and Burn!

12-29-2009, 11:23 AM	#4
murda-c Post Whore! Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Montgomery County, MD Age: 33 Posts: 3,197 Trader Rating: (1) Feedback Score: 1 reviews	it's cool they just drive the price of drugs up and I make more money. __________________

12-29-2009, 11:33 AM	#5
rb26man Zilvia Addict Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: where the hood ckatz is at Age: 34 Posts: 891 Trader Rating: (2) Feedback Score: 2 reviews	i say punishment should fit the crime and that totally didnt fit __________________

12-29-2009, 11:54 AM	#8
driftking777 Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: South Dakota Posts: 554 Trader Rating: (2) Feedback Score: 2 reviews	I know this is going to seem brash, but laws like this, although might be harsh, keep honest people honest, and take scum of the streets. I personally hate the way Americas Judicial system works. You can be a convicted murderer (and admit to it) and sit on death row for years. What a waste of tax payers money. And we wonder why there is over crowding in the prison system. Then im sure someone will say something about the mentally unstable, but thats a another topic almost in itself. i have a much much longer speech, but my son is crying. so im ending this now... __________________ Your RX7 has a rotary? Odd, You must have gotten the base model."

12-29-2009, 11:48 AM	#7
aznpoopy Post Whore! Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: New Jersey Age: 40 Posts: 5,013 Trader Rating: (1) Feedback Score: 1 reviews	death penalty for drug smuggling? i'm totally down with that. due process is another matter entirely. haha. US has a bit too much. but china has practically none at all.

12-29-2009, 11:58 AM	#9
g6civcx Post Whore! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Virginia, USA Posts: 5,764 Trader Rating: (5) Feedback Score: 5 reviews	Other countries don't value human life as much as America. What's left to discuss?

12-29-2009, 12:02 PM	#10
slider2828 Premium Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 5,824 Trader Rating: (13) Feedback Score: 13 reviews	Pfffft... the mental aspect of what? He was able to buy 9LBS of Heroin... Come on... 1stly he was able to buy 9lbs of it somewhere.... If someone has a line to buy 9lbs on the street let me know cause it ain't that easy. 2ndly, he sane enough not to take 9lbs of it himself. 3rdly 9lbs being smuggled into china means he had a means of slangin it, so he can't be stupid. 4th, he was caught with it.... (what else is needed). 5th, its like OJ being smeared with Nicole's blood. He couldn't get off, now if it was heroin on the dudes glove then maybe hahahah __________________ Turn and Burn!

12-29-2009, 12:12 PM	#13
Matej Post Whore! Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: N/A Posts: 9,423 Trader Rating: (39) Feedback Score: 39 reviews	Every criminal suddenly has a mental disorder.

12-29-2009, 12:13 PM	#14
driftking777 Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: South Dakota Posts: 554 Trader Rating: (2) Feedback Score: 2 reviews	btw, before this gets locked for becoming political or anti whatever, it should probably be moved to new OT section (whatever its called) __________________ Your RX7 has a rotary? Odd, You must have gotten the base model."

12-29-2009, 12:14 PM	#15
murda-c Post Whore! Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Montgomery County, MD Age: 33 Posts: 3,197 Trader Rating: (1) Feedback Score: 1 reviews	Why don't the chinese just stop buying the drugs? __________________

12-30-2009, 08:04 PM	#20
upsdude Post Whore! Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Fontana (the good part) Posts: 2,721 Trader Rating: (46) Rides Gallery: upsdude Feedback Score: 46 reviews	at least china has the balls to stand up to other countries and protects its sovereignty.. unlike the U.S. who bends over to whatever the U.N. wants, and apologizes for everything that is perceived as inappropriate. i'm not saying that china doesn't trample on it's citizens rights.

12-31-2009, 06:37 AM	#21
ronmcdon Post Whore! Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: beverly hills Age: 86 Posts: 4,254 Trader Rating: (6) Feedback Score: 6 reviews	Well, it is their laws and customs. Dont go if you dont like it. Its not like there are any surprises. Tbh - i was actually surprised this was the 2nd european killed since the 1950's. That seems very forgiving.

12-31-2009, 07:02 AM	#22
murda-c Post Whore! Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Montgomery County, MD Age: 33 Posts: 3,197 Trader Rating: (1) Feedback Score: 1 reviews	Jeez guys it's just heroin. not like it was anthrax lol. __________________

12-31-2009, 01:43 PM	#24
Brian Post Whore! Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: usa Posts: 12,840 Trader Rating: (54) Rides Gallery: Brian Feedback Score: 54 reviews	USA has a population problem. have you guys driven in Southern California? __________________ http://bhworld.wordpress.com/

01-06-2010, 09:12 AM	#29
usdm180sx Post Whore! Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: 562 Posts: 4,807 Trader Rating: (5) Rides Gallery: usdm180sx Feedback Score: 5 reviews	Who saw that movie "Red Corner" with Richard Gere back in 1997? He was an attorney in China charged with murder but it was a total setup. If he was found guilty the Chinese court was going to shoot him and mail his family a bill for the bullet. __________________ -Norm!

01-06-2010, 11:02 AM	#30
ronmcdon Post Whore! Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: beverly hills Age: 86 Posts: 4,254 Trader Rating: (6) Feedback Score: 6 reviews	Wow, that film was older than id care to admit. some things dont change much. still it seems tame in comparison, to say Midnight Express in the late 70's Dude was also busted for smuggling drugs. No execution involved, but he was stuck in a miserable Turkish jail

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