SR20 Exhaust manifolds that dont crack? [Archive] - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

Grimace

08-15-2011, 10:23 AM

What exhaust manifolds are people running that actually do their job and don't fall apart? I've tried 3 different manifolds now with pretty much the same results.

Heres my Mazworx manifold after 3 months / 6000 miles.

http://i631.photobucket.com/albums/uu34/Grimace_240/Silvia/2011-08-15115938.jpg

http://i631.photobucket.com/albums/uu34/Grimace_240/Silvia/2011-08-15115959.jpg

http://i631.photobucket.com/albums/uu34/Grimace_240/Silvia/2011-08-15120025.jpg

http://i631.photobucket.com/albums/uu34/Grimace_240/Silvia/2011-08-15120107.jpg

Okinawandrifter87

08-15-2011, 10:27 AM

Have you thought about using stock exhaust manifold but porting and polishing it out and then getting it swain coated after?

Grimace

08-15-2011, 10:34 AM

I've thought about it, but really wanted to stay topmount. I plan on pushing 400+ out of this engine before im done with the car.

whitey240

08-15-2011, 11:55 AM

Those are some amazing cracks. Does your car sit outside? What do your EGT's look like at peak?

OkiDori17

08-15-2011, 02:03 PM

full race manifolds are really nice and youll keep your topmount. my buddy has one and it works amazingly, i have mine sitting at home waiting to be installed =]

dopplganger1

08-15-2011, 02:23 PM

The mainfold is not always the problem. What does your downpipe setup look like? Does it hang below the frame rail? Does it have a flex section? Because any of your exhaust scrapping would put a strain on it since the whole leverage factor. Then also the egt plays a factor

Sent from my T-Mobile myTouch 3G Slide using Tapatalk

codyace

08-15-2011, 03:25 PM

The mainfold is not always the problem. What does your downpipe setup look like? Does it hang below the frame rail? Does it have a flex section? Because any of your exhaust scrapping would put a strain on it since the whole leverage factor. Then also the egt plays a factor

Well said. Flex section is a must regardless. Any turbo bracing?

fliprayzin240sx

08-15-2011, 04:57 PM

Funny how this came up...my Mazworx manifold did the same shit around the WG neck. Thats the funny shit too, it cracked on a spot that shouldnt have cracked since there really isnt any stress on it other than having a MV44 wastegate and open dump tube on it. My DP had a flex pipe on it. I didnt even know it was cracked since it was wrapped. The guy I just recently sold it too noticed the soot burn on the wrap under the flange and peeled it back.

I'm still pissed about since I spent $800 on it with the same result as a damn Ebay one. Atleast if the Ebay one cracked, i wouldnt be so pissed since i would have expected it to crack.

Send it back to Mazworx and have them reweld it. Considering its cracking on the weld instead of the metal, I'd blame the welds.

codyace

08-15-2011, 10:36 PM

Send it back to Mazworx and have them reweld it. Considering its cracking on the weld instead of the metal, I'd blame the welds.

Without a doubt that is the issue. It's one thing if the pipe cracks, another if it breaks exactly along the weld

HIGHFIVEBETA

08-15-2011, 10:48 PM

Mark should be able to fix it no questions asked. The oem one should do wonders but what can you do if you have a top mount setup... You need a tubular piece.

My isis bottom mount is still holding up just fine!

rcdad123

08-15-2011, 10:53 PM

tube exhaust manifolds are pretty thin, unless you use the 1/8 inch kind that they use on log type manifolds. you have to use a really good design(very effective), brace to hold the turbo`s weight. i used to race a car with a big heavy turbo on a full race tubular exhaust manifold that never cracked because of the effective triangulated design brace that it had. it was not a race car, it was a daily driver honda civic with a gt35r making 600+WHP. the manifold is not designed to hold the weight of the turbo, you have to have a brace.

usdm180sx

08-16-2011, 12:20 AM

Full race

laksjdjhfhg

1quk240

08-16-2011, 01:28 AM

Mine don't crack and are backed by a warranty. Also having a flexpipe on the downpipe helps. Check out my work. I've sold a couple manifolds to people on here

http://zilvia.net/f/gb-forced-induction/399273-twin-scroll-tial-s13-s14-sr20-gtx3071.html

Pm me if you have any questions

codyace

08-16-2011, 09:59 AM

1quk240

08-16-2011, 11:53 AM

That's a nice little setup!

Thanks. Should have video and dyno numbers on my daily driver soon

codyace

08-16-2011, 08:31 PM

Thanks. Should have video and dyno numbers on my daily driver soon

I know where I"m pointing people now for Top Mount setups :D

andrew600

08-17-2011, 09:08 AM

i like my stock mani. no issues at all:)

1quk240

08-17-2011, 09:45 AM

I know where I"m pointing people now for Top Mount setups :D

For sure! I will be coming up with a new design soon also.

Zerolift Autolab

08-17-2011, 10:00 AM

Mazworx does warranty their manifolds.
Contact them regarding your issue.

Howie Felter Snatch

08-24-2011, 03:47 PM

My understanding is that some exhaust manifolds are not designed to withstand the full weight of a turbo/elbow/downpipe configuration. How low is your 240 and have you ever had any scraping issues with any of your exhaust components?

brian3676

08-25-2011, 04:04 PM

The DOC Race ones are really nice. In reality though, all SS manifolds will crack in time no matter how good of quality SS or welds there are. Its the flaw of SS manifolds. You can always add bracing to help support the turbo and downpipe.

DOCRACE.COM | CUSTOM TURBO MANIFOLDS | PERFORMANCE PARTS (http://www.docrace.com/_products/sr20/sr20.php)

s14unimog

08-26-2011, 02:13 PM

I've had two Tomei's crack in two different locations... Here is the most recent failure. Before anyone assumes insanity, the cracks were in completely different areas. The first was within the divider at the collector and now these at the runners. Tomei replaced it once, I'm currently waiting to repair this one in an effort to see if they'll replace this one too. for reference, I have a flex section on the vertical drop, polly hangers, poly engine/trans mounts... this shouldn't happen.

What troubles me about manifold failures is that they often seem to be within the weld, as if it split apart. Correct me if I'm wrong (which I'm not) but shouldn't the weld be as strong as the surrounding material; of course if welded correctly? My understanding is that the surrounding material should fail before a quaility weld should. WHY do almost all SS manifolds have little bitty tiny TIG welds that almost look fused with no filler rod? Why not triple pass that shit; lets see a broken tube FOR ONCE!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v721/s14unimog/9to1Reassemblycont-08-16-11014.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v721/s14unimog/9to1Reassemblycont-08-16-11015.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v721/s14unimog/9to1Reassemblycont-08-16-11016.jpg

copmagnet

08-26-2011, 09:11 PM

the weld itself should be STRONGER than the metal around it for the most part. If the weld breaks, its a bad weld. The metal should give around the weld before the weld itself does.

Pictures 1,2, and 3 all look to be broken along the edge of the weld, except one spot that crossed. Meaning the metal failed, not the weld. Pic 4 is an obvious weld fail. Stainless steel is extremely brittle, it doesn't have nearly the "give" to it of regular steel. Probably one reason it cracks so easy, what with the weight of a turbo sitting on it and all. There's a lot of leverage at work hanging a turbo off the side of the engine, get some heavy duty bracing in there to support it, should help a lot.

s14unimog

08-27-2011, 02:47 PM

Pictures 1,2, and 3 all look to be broken along the edge of the weld, except one spot that crossed

Before agreeing with you I think its important to consider that the starting point of the failure has significantly more to do with the diagnosis rather than pictures of the most visible damage. I wonder where it gave first... We're all pretty aware of the weight of turbo system here and the likeliness of damaging stress it can induce on a manifold, so no need to reiterate what caused it.

copmagnet

08-28-2011, 02:15 AM

Well sure, but its damn near impossible to tell from the closeup pics where the likely starting point was. Anybody with much welding/fabrication experience could look at them and figure that out fairly quickly though I should think. From what little I can see, it looks to me like there just wasn't enough filler put in. The weld cut into the steel slightly, and without the right amount of filler was undercut on either side slightly. Therefore, the steel in those places was thinner than in other, and more prone to failure. Concave weld beads is what makes me lean towards that conclusion, a proper weld should be more convex. Now I'm no master fabricator by any means, but I did do steelwork and welding for a living for quite a few years. Better pics would go a long way towards figuring it out, but in this case its already broken so a bit late. Too much emphasis on pretty welds and not enough on strong ones imo.

codyace

08-28-2011, 09:09 AM

t Concave weld beads is what makes me lean towards that conclusion, a proper weld should be more convex. Now I'm no master fabricator by any means, but I did do steelwork and welding for a living for quite a few years. Better pics would go a long way towards figuring it out, but in this case its already broken so a bit late. Too much emphasis on pretty welds and not enough on strong ones imo.

I'm with you on that one for sure. It seems like most of these manifolds always seem to have a lack of filler material in the welds (dare I say most of them are done this way to look pretty, as forum experts place appearence first when it comes to welding).

Like above, lack of bracing is another thing that so many skip. I know when we're hanging T4+ turbos off a v8 setup, we always try to brace it with a hard/metal brace to the block (or to a chassis point if flex sections or motor plate cars) to help alleviate stress.

codyace

08-28-2011, 09:11 AM

Another thing I've often wondered, is if the flange itself is partly responsible for the failure as well....it seems like manifolds with split ports seem to have less issues than ones using a solid piece btween them all.

Also curious as if the Tomei piece is 100% stainless on the flange as well, or if it's regular steel. To me if it was all stainless, that may lead to failure as well.

s14unimog

08-28-2011, 04:30 PM

From what little I can see, it looks to me like there just wasn't enough filler put in. Too much emphasis on pretty welds and not enough on strong ones imo.

Exactly where I'm at on this... I just don't see the reason for little bitty TIG welds; outside appearance of course.

I'm with you on that one for sure. It seems like most of these manifolds always seem to have a lack of filler material in the welds (dare I say most of them are done this way to look pretty, as forum experts place appearence first when it comes to welding).

same thing, exactly my thoughts...

Another thing I've often wondered, is if the flange itself is partly responsible for the failure as well....it seems like manifolds with split ports seem to have less issues than ones using a solid piece btween them all. Also curious as if the Tomei piece is 100% stainless on the flange as well, or if it's regular steel. To me if it was all stainless, that may lead to failure as well.

From what I could tell about the piece when I first got it I'm fairly sure its 100% stainless. I actually spoke with Tomei Friday and they intend to warranty the claim. Question is now, should I take advantage of that at their expenses with this likely to happen again or reweld it, recoat it, and have it on the motor in a couple days; I'm looking at 2 weeks + if I follow up with the claim.

Grimace

08-30-2011, 10:42 AM

Update from my end...

My downpipe, Nor any part of my exhaust has ever hit the ground. The lowest point is the kit on the car, and I'm just not baller enough to let this kit touch the ground. I don't have any bracing on my turbo, and never have. I don't see how bracing the turbo is going to keep the wastegate tube/welds from failing. I shouldn't have to brace the wastegate on a 700 dollar "top of the line" manifold anyways.

Mazworx did warranty the manifold, but I had to ship it at my cost. They said turn around time should be 2 weeks. However, anytime I ever hear 2 weeks from a shop I smell bullshit. Monday the 5th is their deadline, and as Ive yet to receive an email, phone call, or any word at all. I doubt it will be on time.

I gotta say, So far I'm not impressed by Mazworx regardless of how their shop car preforms. Issues thus far.

1. They straight out lied to me about the fitment of the manifold. I asked and was told 3 times before ordering this manifold that it had ZERO fitment issues on RHD cars. Welp, That simply isnt true. You have to move the heater lines for the downpipe to clear, and even then the rubber hoses sit MAYBE 1/4 inch away from it. You simply can not route them out of the way due to where they connect through the firewall. When I called and told them about this, they simply said "just take out the heater lines".

2. After the manifold failed they refused to pay to ship the manifold to them. I can provide proof that the manifold was used less then 3 months. My car was on the dyno 05-27-11, This is the first time/day this manifold was used. I started to hear an exhaust leak I thought to be a failed gasket around the end of last month. The manifold then totally failed 08-10-11. Their excuse is I bought the manifold back in January which is true, However until 05-27-11 it sat in a climate controlled room/shop not even bolted to engine.

The bottom line is, Their manifold failed due to quality control/design flaws. The customer service I have received sucks. They wouldn't even work with me over a 25 dollar shipping charge. Let alone the 80 dollars in gaskets I have to buy again. I will not recommend any parts or service from Mazworx after this. Which is disappointing as I was planning on buying the z32 trans adapter kit, and the solid axle conversion for our cars.

Sorry for the long post, Just felt the need to vent that out there.

Highway Riding

08-30-2011, 10:49 AM

Thanks for sharing.. Been looking at all of these mani's and am glad I stayed with the stock sr....

codyace

08-30-2011, 11:12 AM

From what I could tell about the piece when I first got it I'm fairly sure its 100% stainless. I actually spoke with Tomei Friday and they intend to warranty the claim. Question is now, should I take advantage of that at their expenses with this likely to happen again or reweld it, recoat it, and have it on the motor in a couple days; I'm looking at 2 weeks + if I follow up with the claim.

Tough call to make for sure. I wonder if they'd cover the cost to have the stainless welded locally....

theboy

08-30-2011, 11:32 AM

Tough call to make for sure. I wonder if they'd cover the cost to have the stainless welded locally....

Nope, because they couldnt prove it broke, thus they wont warrantee it. Every company out there usually has to have proof of failure to do anything with the parts. And speeaking from experience in working at a big name company in the warrantee department. They will try to give you the run around for a while until you finally give up on trying to get your money back or the product fixed/replaced. Thats why they pay people to talk to you on the phone.

JSimpson

08-30-2011, 05:55 PM

Grimace

08-30-2011, 06:57 PM

Dude it might be your motor or your climate or some wierd shit. I had an ebay/megan last for 7 years without issue. My mazworx manifolds are absolutely flawless and I would assume yours is the same... Its not the manifold if you have had so many crack... is your harmonic balance in good condition? Do you rev your motor super high?

The engine runs fine. Its a BPU Redtop running 1bar. The engine itself is factory, Its never been messed with internal wise. Its tuned Via power FC with the revlimit at 7100rpm. Climate wise im no different from Florida where mazworx is based at.

The only part ive ever really had crack was the wastegate. The runner on the mazworx manifold had a bad weld, That is why it too is cracked.

codyace

08-31-2011, 09:32 AM

Nope, because they couldnt prove it broke, thus they wont warrantee it. Every company out there usually has to have proof of failure to do anything with the parts. And speeaking from experience in working at a big name company in the warrantee department. They will try to give you the run around for a while until you finally give up on trying to get your money back or the product fixed/replaced. Thats why they pay people to talk to you on the phone.

I've had companies cover products to be repaired locally, so long as you provide reciepts and prove of it all (pictures etc etc). Not saying he should expect it, but I've personally had this work out for me.

With that said, I 100% agree with what you said though, my experience isn't the norm, but that's not to make it impossible.

s14unimog

09-01-2011, 07:27 AM

Tough call to make for sure. I wonder if they'd cover the cost to have the stainless welded locally....

they didn't exactly offer it but I told them I would be okay with a repair and that I would not require a replacement kit (with the header wrap/studs/etc..) but I would need the damaged one back if they wouldn't claim it. I get the feeling they're just going to send me another one off the shelf. I would repair it myself if I had decided to keep it. Miller Syncrowave FTW!

codyace

09-01-2011, 07:32 AM

they didn't exactly offer it but I told them I would be okay with a repair and that I would not require a replacement kit (with the header wrap/studs/etc..) but I would need the damaged one back if they wouldn't claim it. I get the feeling they're just going to send me another one off the shelf. I would repair it myself if I had decided to keep it. Miller Syncrowave FTW!

'But it's not pretty, welds must not be good'

;)

s14unimog

09-01-2011, 07:38 AM

^Ya I doubt I can replicate their quality but I'll assure you they won't split... Don't hate on my bugger welds :Ownedd:

Grimace

11-17-2011, 11:49 AM

Think its time I bring this thread back to life.

I ended up getting my manifold back Then this happened,
http://i631.photobucket.com/albums/uu34/Grimace_240/Silvia%20SR%20install/2011-10-06141824.jpg

http://i631.photobucket.com/albums/uu34/Grimace_240/Silvia%20SR%20install/100_1236.jpg

http://i631.photobucket.com/albums/uu34/Grimace_240/Silvia%20SR%20install/2011-11-12232608.jpg

The manifold that was repaired did crack again. Mazworx got another one made and had it next day aired to me. I'll post up when it arrives.

I'm looking at a total of pretty much a week down time, Which isn't bad and the shipping was paid for this time. Hopefully what ever reason for my old one cracking doesn't follow with the new one.

fliprayzin240sx

11-20-2011, 08:52 AM

So they fixed it, and broke even worst. Fucking awesome. I pretty much just took it in the butt since they have no record of me buying the manifold and refused to warranty/back their part. I will never buy any Mazworx product ever again...

My situation was pretty shitty, I sold the manifold for $450, didnt realized it was cracked. Since I they have no record of me buying it from them and the fact I sold it pretty much told me my shits out of luck. Thankfully, the buyer agreed to keep it after I gave him $100 back and use the money to reweld the manifold.

codyace

11-21-2011, 08:31 AM

I think their idea of just 'throwing more weld on it' to fix it...ey yi yi.

Darren

11-21-2011, 08:38 AM

steve shadows

11-22-2011, 12:46 PM

codyace

11-22-2011, 09:51 PM

I had a peakboost that would crack all the time especially after time attack sessions, we welded some big triangle shapped braces around the collector to the main tubes on all sides and stopped it once and for all. Most of the tube collector or tube manifolds for top mount need some sort of additional bracing even after coming out of the box on most cars, especially if you have solid motor mounts or a really rigid chassis on the car...

I've always found it funny how Turbo 911 manifolds bash off the ground at track days, and last forever...yet a bullshit 4 cylinder manifold on street cars crack.

The difference is fabrication and parts. Internet dweeebs (not you steve, just using it loosely) fall into this hard on attraction to stainless steel and concave welds, which are shit.

With that said, turbo bracing/support is key. Even simple rod ends into a piece of threaded rod is enough.

S14 James

11-24-2011, 09:26 AM

I've got a hybrid-dynamics that has never given me any problems, I thought the Mazworx manifold would be based off that since Jay made a move down there (closed up H-D and joined Mazworx) and shortly after they started stocking their own kit.
I guess something was lost in translation.
-James

Def

11-24-2011, 09:35 AM

Just wondering if those who've had manifolds crack on them (which is by no means uncommon) have EGT readings and / or flex pipes in their downpipes / exhaust.

The reason i ask is that the exhaust is very heavy, and the motor moving around or exhaust moving around can have a good amount of strain on the manifold... also, the higher your EGTs are, the more likely that the metal in the manifold will get brittle...

Also to that note, increasing the stiffness & mounting security of the exhaust would help, i'm sure..

just my .02

Stainless steel gets softer at higher temps, not more "brittle." Most metals aren't considered to undergo brittle failure anyway at room temp or above...

EGTs don't really play a huge role in it either.

Eliminating stress from the manifold is the way to do it.

But I will say all these horror stories are enough to keep me with my ported and header wrapped stocker. Cheap, and I never have to worry about it.

codyace

11-24-2011, 06:11 PM

But I will say all these horror stories are enough to keep me with my ported and header wrapped stocker. Cheap, and I never have to worry about it.

Stock Manifold Fanboys, we are the 1%!

-Seriously-

1quk240

11-24-2011, 07:21 PM

Or you could buy one of my manifolds. Haven't had 1 crack.

idahotuner

11-24-2011, 07:55 PM

has anyone ever heard of a full-race manifold cracking

s14unimog

11-24-2011, 08:31 PM

turbo bracing/support is key. Even simple rod ends into a piece of threaded rod is enough.

exactly.

msglnth

Kingtal0n

11-25-2011, 04:35 PM

Stock Manifold Fanboys, we are the 1%!

-Seriously-
^ ^ :werd:
If you dont own a shop and a tig welder, I might avoid anything but the OEM turbo sr20det manifolds on your daily.

That said, I was looking around my friend's shop the other day and I found this raw @$$ clean S15 setup. I was all "omfg wtfzorz I found gold! " and they are all standing around scratching their heads whispering "this guy is crazy..."
check this clean casting!
http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/4018/p1120643.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/521/p1120643.jpg/)

nevermind the fact its still attached to the 28. those come and go but manifolds like this... priceless! ;)