OptionZero

how will they know I have cams...i don't think they, on an automatic at least...are noticeable enough a power gain

Replicant_S14

They won't but if you aren't interested in classing the car where it's supposed to be, just run novice or time only.

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OptionZero

well...i am a novice

240 OR DIE

Well I hate speaking for others, but one local driver who codrives a 240 will most likely on a local event take top honors on the day for practicly every event. You put the same guy in another car and he still destroys everybody. What does that say, driver is everything. On my own person note I run STS locally, and usually place 1st or 2nd. Ive had quite a few events with a 1st place trophy and if im not in 1st in my class, I probably had the fastest run, but its those damn cones that get ya. My rival is a GSR and hes always on my ass or vice versa, the competition is great. I have a big event this weekend so Ill be focusing on a few things I need improvement on, like both hands on the wheel and slow in fast out. Anyways I think the car is competitive at a certain level, and then driving skill will make it much more competitive.


Good Luck and Have Fun

Justin

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Tricky1980

im so confused.. im running in stx class in my region and after 5 events i have 3 1st and 2 2nd place.. the cars in my class are a wrx, 2 6 cylinder mustangs and 1 mustang gt auto, and then radom cars that show up... i just have bolt on upgrades, agx, whiteline springs, underdrive pulley 17x7.5 rims(dont ask) j30 lsd short throw kit.. am i in the wrong class should i be higher... lower, any idea.. why is there a stang gt in my class!? he is the only one that ever beats me but that was only twice at bigger courses..???
jay

Replicant_S14

The j30 rear put's you in stx. That's the same reason I'm stx instead of sts. The stang is ok because of the 5.1L limit for N/a cars. I wouldn't worry about it anyway. I'd rather race GTs than ITRs.

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thelinja

What about the J30 diff moves you up to Street Touring? Is it because of the gearing?

Wei240

because it's a l.s.d, not gear ratios...

thelinja

I wouldn't think that would make a difference. VLSD was an option on 240's, so swapping a VLSD would still make it "stock." That would be the same as just selling a car with an open diff and buying a car with VLSD just so you can have a limited slip.
I still run stock class with an HLSD. It doesn't give me that much of an advantage since most of the surfaces I race on are really rough in some places and I still get wheelspin. Oh well, I just autox for fun and it's not like I'll ever win my region because there are some badass drivers around here.

240 OR DIE

Under STS rules if you upgrade the open diff to vlsd you have to swap in the same make and model as your car. So that says only a differential out of a 240 can be used. And of course the gear ratios are different so that is another reason. STX allows for any differential so you can go ahead and throw in that 1.5 cusco unit you allways wanted to get.

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nocomedown

what part of IN are you in? im gonna be in west lafayette for the next 4 (or so) years, and as soon as im able to have my 240 up at school with me (fall 2005), i want to start Auto-Xing, and up until that point, i'm gonna want to just attend as many events as a spectator as possible to get to know the people. if youve got any good info on the different events and organizations that run them in the area, please drop me a PM or email.

019

if you have an hlsd, then you should be in stx

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www.streetdynamics.com

thelinja

Yeah, but I don't have any other mods to back up the diff so I'm staying in stock. Also, that's a stupid rule about swapping in a viscous from a J30, it's the same thing as swapping in a vlsd from another 240. The unit is the same. I got a hell of a deal on the HLSD, so I'm not going to move up just so I can get spanked by heavily modded WRX's and smaller compacts such as civics and integras.

jmauld

I think the swaybar and spring rule is stupid too. So, I'll just run my car in stock.

Seriously, if you're going to play, play by the rules. If your local competiters find out that you're not playing by the rules, they'll dislike you for it. And they'll remember it for a really long time.

FYI: VLSD does not equal HLSD. Sorry to break the news to you.

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Jason
'95 240sx SE

Replicant_S14

Yeah, for STS the J30 rear wouldn't be legal period and even if you found a 240sx rear to put in, you'd need to also put in ABS since the two options were a package on north american cars. Goofy huh?

....or, just rock it STX. 2wd cars can use any diff in STX.



So you get spanked, So what?

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240 OR DIE

Not to brag but Im usually ahead of stx drivers by 1 to 2sec. At Houston Nat Tour the top SM times were still beat by STS(pesky civics).These guys are badass drivers, and extremely lightweight cars. Anyways jump in your beater get spanked or spank somebody or whatever just go have fun kicking somebodies ass. Later

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MovinUp-1

Justin, what are you smoking today? Leftover welding slag from trying to fix your subframe? STS was not faster than SM at the Houston Tour.

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Allen
Delta Region SCCA
SM 1990 240SX SR20DET

240 OR DIE

Thats what I get for listening to Brians overactive imgination. Shoulda know better, and no its medical grade opium.

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mikespeed95

OK, after reading a lot of this let me express 2 known facts i have learned in my 2 years of auto-xing


1) more than 50% of people cheat about classes.
2) more than 30% of the peopel i have talked to / almost 90% of the n00bs get stuck in the wrong class.


STS rules state, that a 240sx is allowed iwth open diff or vlsd, straight from scca. does your punkin say j30t on it? no, run sts. is it giving you any DISTINCT advantage? NO. RUN STS

I will be running a 2way lsd in sts probably, do i care? no, does anyone else? probably not. otehr than the fact that i should be able to outdrift them i am not seeing any distinct advantage warrantying me to run SM or STX and get pwned by cars on slicks.

strut bars / apc intake / one piece non adjustable racing seat vs reclinable / c/f hood, crap like that can alter your class. Is anyone gonig to contest it if you win? probably not, why? because the people who know the rules dont care about little stuff like that, most peopel understand that people modify their cars before they get into auto-x and are not going to penalize them for that.

My civic was illegal due to a DX motorswap in my EX ( shop blew up my motor, i am poor ) , which was totally illegal. to run in sts/dsp/hs IIRC i would have to remove my sunroof, power windows/locks, make my car a dx. Did anyone care enough to contest me? NO, was i cheating? yes.

nobody cares about little stuff, you can get away with it. same with internal modifications for drag racing, do they give you a huge advantage? no. do you ahve to tell people you have forged pistons /rods at stock compression so you can spray at the track? no.

same with motorswaps. if you have a LS in your civic i think you should be allowed to run sts, besides haveing a lto more torque , therefore wheelspin i dont see any advantage to it.

Auto-x is 90% driver, 5% car, 5% luck. little stuff in the rules can be overlooked. i am not saying though blatant rules violoations shoudl be allowed ( R compounds in STS is a serious NO NO , whats worse is when they still get beat )

im done ranting. little stuff nobody cares about can be overlooked. I am not a fan of cheating but if there is something little i want to do ( i.e. cams ) that is not legal for my class (STS) i am not going to skip over a mod i wanted to do to stay in my class. its 10whp, not enough to matter at an auto-x.

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MovinUp-1

So you feel that "little" mods like adding more power and having more available grip out of a corner with a better differential shouldn't make you move to the class you actually belong in.

Wow.

I can't argue with you on this. Because you are just flat out wrong.

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Allen
Delta Region SCCA
SM 1990 240SX SR20DET

jmauld

agreed! With that attitude, if I knew that you were cheating, I'd protest you regardless of if we were even in the same class as me.

If you did more digging, you'd find that A LOT less then 50% of people who take autocross seriously, will cheat. They may push the rules, but they won't flat out cheat.

I just can't get over that you think swapping an engine, changing cams, and who knows what else is "okay".

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Jason
'95 240sx SE

ryan hagen

damnn, i swapped a 1995 s14 ka24de into my 1991 s13 when my motor blew.
i guess that makes my car illegal, i even put my s13 cams into it... i better see about making it into a s14, this sucks, i was gonna be in my first autocross this weekend in mi, but i guess i ll opt out..........

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1990 hatch ka24de gt2871r

LanceS13

Opt out? Why?!? Do you think you're gonna be competitive at your FIRST autocross anyway? Go! Have fun!

Bottom Line: Rules are neccessary, even if they seem unreasonable in a particular case. The very nature of a rule makes it impossible for a specific exception to be made w/o opening the door for other LARGER exceptions...that is without severely complicating what is, in some cases, an already complicated rule set. Sorry, but that's the way it is. In your case ryan, I wouldn't protest you b/c I don't know the visual difference between an S13 and S14 KA...and I certainly wouldn't be able to pickup on the almost nill performance difference. Not that I condone this, but you could run GS until somebody is desparate enough to protest you...you still get the seat time. If they do, just move to SM at the next event...you'll get slaughtered, but you can still have fun and improve yourself until you can get yourself into a more competitive car.

A buddy of mine drives a turbo FC RX-7 with 15 year old worn out stock suspension, solid rear toe bushings, and a boost controller...and that's about it. He has to run SM2 and is really never a contender. But one event, he co-drove a Prizm in HS and trophied b/c of what he had learned while driving his way-non-competitive RX-7. I fear the day he can afford to put a good suspension and big R compounds on that car.

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MS SCCA
RX-7 ITS Project FOR SALE

ryan hagen

i did my first autocross, they put me in dsp, and raced some little VW's with roll cages that also run the northern michagan rally races, i got beat pretty good, i ran a 120.21 +1- cone as my best time, the cars in other classes were a vw something brand new, that ran a 106.?? as the fastest time, it killed a vette zo6, and a viper, the course was so tight that the viper got cone penalties alot cause he had to almost stop to get through, the v-dubs that were so short killed us. all the top times were rally cars and VW's actaully all the rally cars were VW's also. my friend who was in a differnt class got a 120.71 no cones with lowering springs and gr2's. it was hella fun, but now i know next time to show up with azenis sports, and some more suspension tuning.
so i d have to say raceing against other 240's is fun, and other rear wheel cars, but the little V-dub's have a huge advantage over us.

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1990 hatch ka24de gt2871r

LanceS13

120? As in 2 minutes? Damn that musta been a long course.
You may have been way behind the front runners, but how much did you improve your times from your first run...as a novice, that is much more important. Anyway, glad to hear you had fun.

But I was looking at your other mods just now...just fyi, you should be in SM anyway with the Z brakes and aftermarket control arms.

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MS SCCA
RX-7 ITS Project FOR SALE

Replicant_S14

Nah, it's just because it's your first auto-x. The only new vw that might be ok is the R32. It's neat, but it's also pretty heavy. The older vws do ok but I have a '01 GTI and mod for mod, the 240 will eat it's lunch......unless it's a drag race

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ryan hagen

the corners were tight, like really tight, the 240's(2) the vette zo6(1) and viper(1) got beat and had alot of cones. a yellow r32 got a 106 and that was the best time. the shorter cars had a huge advantage, like a mini cooper would have anihlated all at this, a clown car could have. but the best time didnt count, it was this guy in a dune buggy looking thing that he had built, i heard his time was better than the r32 but this thing was not street legal in like any way. it had a Vw motor, out of a old bug, and had like huge negative camber, probally weighed 1500lb or less with driver.
my first run was a 125.?? off course, missed 1 gate

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1990 hatch ka24de gt2871r