Zohan

So I hear a lot of people saying how different it is driving a 230hp car vs. 500+ hp car and I would not doubt it, especially in 90's cars with very limited traction control technology. So if someone could go a little in depth as to what things someone should have in mind before going all out on a motor. I've been in high hp cars, but new ones like GTR's, ferrari's, etc. and I know they torque steer sometimes, even mine does a little bit, really want a ride in a built 2jz 240
thanks!!

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Drift_FX

long story short because i need to get some sleep....

build the suspension/safety of the car first, then add power as your driving skill increases.... thats the correct way to do it.....

RoXiE.S14

fast goes BWAAAAAAAAAAAA. Slow goes "nnnyeeeeeeeEEEE!!!"

Zohan

So if I'm on the right page, with higher speeds, your movements and reactions need to be a lot more precise since high hp aren't as forgiving to mistakes?

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PeaceOnesxWai

Compensate power with wider wheels, stickier tires, more downforce.

DJ-of-E

go pure stock S13 first. If you could do buttonwillow CW13 faster than 2:25 ( (or 1:38 on Streets of Willow CCW) on hankook RS3 tires or equivalent, then build suspension and safety. If faster than 2:05 (1:30 on Streets of Willow) CCW with same tires, then build power.

If any point in time you can't reach those times under those specifications, you suck at car control and don't bother with "MOAR POWAAA1!!!"

Adding more power keeps the learning curve for car control even steeper. Not only that, you have to fine tune your suspension again to handle the power properly at "what point" you want the suspension to act.

Now adding more power adds another level of difficulty as we are "greedy" for more power and not learn how to use it properly. Take it to an SCCA sanctioned auto-x and I can beat your 2JZ 240SX with a stock miata with 20 year old stock suspension.

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MrMigs

The others already went into detail with their recommendations on tuning stages building up to the point of going high-power, so I want to focus on something else.

The other thing is how you plan to enjoy the car and whether or not you really think that 500hp is going to make your car a lot more fun for you long-term or if it's just going to be a passing feeling. It may or may not be worth doing all that work. And I only say this because it sounds like you're looking for opinions to help you decide whether or not you want to have a high-power 240.

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ZX88

you dont need that kind of power in a 240. around 300 is perfect.

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MrMigs

Again it depends on what the dude expects out of his car. Even 300 might be more than he needs for what he wants to do (whatever that is). Or it may not be enough.

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kojiki88

Im at 305 rwhp and I am already bored/used to that kind of power. I'm shooting for around 450 on the next phase of upgrades.

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zooopreme

Everybody wants to jump into a JZ or a V8 without even trying to drift their KA or stock SR. People complain about the lack of power because they lack a lot of different skills in the basics of controlling a car. Kinda like owning a fancy bike without knowing how to ride it correctly.

300hp in my honest opinion is more than enough for a street driven car/weekend track car. Anything above that use, you'll need to prioritize things like your suspension set up/chassis rigidity/wheel +tire rather than power. While power is great, I can see a more advanced and skilled driver taking your 300hp car and driving it better than these power hungry scrubs just on skill alone.

People typically forget that a lot of professionals started out with less hp and were still able to make something of themselves. But no...it's always shortcuts to get more internet credits from other dweebs.

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InsTanCeZ

It actually takes a lot more skill to drive higher horsepower cars because you will need very good throttle control to prevent the car from over steering when exiting corners. If you look at some of the crazy built time attack S-chassis over in Japan lapping on courses like Tsukuba, they have about 500-650hp built SR20DETs, but they have fully adjustable suspension arms, custom built racing dampers, and a fully seam welded chassis with roll cages. They also run as much tire as they can. 295/30r18 front and rear is common, and they use s-tires such as Advan A048s so they can get as much grip as possible. A lot of work goes into aerodynamics too. They usually have front splitters and big rear wings. That's just to give you an idea of how much work goes into making a 500hp car controllable on the track.

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BoostSlideWayz

Like someone mentioned everyone just wants to skip actually trying to build an awesome KA and just swap in an SR,RB,2jz etc. If you build an engine correctly you can squeeze some awesome power out of it.

My ka24e-t isnt massive power, but its fun and thats all that matters to me.


But yeah i think it really depends on the type of driving you plan on doing. If you want a car that handles awesome in tight corners you wont even need that much power. Just good gear ratios and proper suspension.

For my supra project im hoping just in the 340 WHP range and ill be happy. For the most part i dont plan on serious driving with it. Its literally just a freeway car thats only driven once maybe 3 times a month tops.

i know for me, 450 WHP in a supra was alot more than i imagined. My first ride in one was very raw and hard hitting power. And thats when i decided not even i needed that much power.

Makes me laugh at myself when i was 18 wanting a 700 HP supra with no experience even riding in a boosted car.

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InsTanCeZ

I'm assuming you're talking about building a grassroots drift car or grip car. Either way I would worry about making the engine more reliable rather than making more power. Somewhere around 300hp is usually enough. If I was building an S-chassis, I wouldn't want more than about 400hp if I was driving it on the street. Anywhere past that and you usually end up running into issues with reliability, at least with an SR20DET. More than 400hp would be tough to control with most street cars anyways. You have to realize that big horsepower street cars like GTRs, Corvettes, and what not are engineered from the factory to drive safely on the streets with the amount of power they have, so that's a whole other story and you can't really compare a car from the 90s, that was designed to use around 220hp from the factory, to cars like that.

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BoostSlideWayz

For me my ka is fine in the 200 HP range, dont really need any more. Ive built the engine with quality parts so it should be fine. its been a couple years since the build.

for the supra i wouldnt compare it to cars like those. i just want a car thats fun and more power than 180 whp for stock. gets boring with how heavy the car is.

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zeitgeist

With 360whp in my S14 I could take it upwards of 150mph but im scared to with only 225 and 255 sized tires to go past even 100mph. I could but no need to risk it. Needs more grip and bracing for me to feel confident in the car.
My S13 on the otherhand has 130whp but with the bracing and proper sized tires I feel I could confidently take this thing to 150mph and feel stable

Call me a crappy driver or whatever, but why risk losing your life without a good setup?

EsChassisLove

Fucking tires, LSD and suspension.

No baby 225 bullshit. Full rubber 9.5 all around or wider on sticky 285s or bigger.

I have a 500hp SR20. It breaks loose at 60mph in 2nd gear. But I have meaty, sticky tires and great brakes to control it. I do just fine.

Lots of fun.

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lude4life13

Not being able to go past 100mph while staying stable has WAY more to do with suspension, aero, etc. than it does with having 255 series tires lol. Go get an alignment and I bet you'll be much happier.

ILoveJDM

ive had a couple 300whp sr20s and a 550whp fd rx7.

500+ is a rocket ship..make sure you have plenty of room in front of you in every direction before you put the pedal down..if this is for drifting - 500+ picks up ALOT of speed quickly.

#1 if this is a highway car, you need a rear spoiler. I had a gt wing on my rx7, tons of highway rolls..260km/h +, took the wing off one day for gits and shiggles and rear end was floating around.

#2 upgrade your fucking brakes.

#3 upgrade your tire compound and width. no fucking front camber at 9 deg. I have a car with a ton of track width and camber up front and it cant stop in a straight line for shit.

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shogun!

Mine has done 175 mph with the old engine (300-350hp). Steady as a rock.
In its upgraded version, it manage over 200 mph.
It has all what is needed to have great fun on track, quarter and street.

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Zohan

So true as well, everyone wants crazy high hp cars, I'd be happy to get around 300 with my Ka. I'd like to one day tune in the suspension as well, but as a youngster on a budget, I just want a reliable smooth build to kick me back in my seat sometimes, yet controllable drifting on the street or track, nothing over 4-5k in total

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Zohan

Yeah exactly!! As I mentioned, those cars are loaded with safety equipment, assists and what not, whereas powerful cars like 240's, supras, or Rx7's don't and thats where the raw power comes out and can turn your day into a disaster if you can't keep in on the road.

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Zohan

Yes, I have a big country labs wing and an origin 3d gtc wing, I have a set of wilwood brakes once I get my new rotors, I will put them on, as well as overfenders to run a more aggressive width.
Thanks for the tips

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Zohan

sounds like fun!! a little high hp for my daily applciations, but I definitely need to get some new tires and overfenders so I can run a 0 camber with my 9.5's

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Zohan

In your opinion, do you think a stock low mile KA needs internals to handle 300hp on a good tune?

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Chuki_KA24e

People get 300+ reliably all day long out of decent stock ka's, on stock internals, low and high mileage, with a good tune. You can find out everything you will need and exactly how to pull it off by looking at this link right here:

www.ka-t.org • Index page

do it sideways

Ka-t's are like ebay parts , hit or miss, I wouldn't do it. Sr20's are far more reliable! And as far as having a lot of hp , obviously move up slowly with your skill level, don't jump from stock ka to 500hp. And yea 500hp is a lot of power in a little 240, so it's not going to be a easy car to control, gotta make sure suspension and tires are dialed in(no used old tires) For drifting it has pros and cons, it's going to pick up speed quickly and u have to have very good throttle control, but then u don't need clutch kick much at all and a lot of times don't need to downshift in critical transitions like a lower hp would need to.

collegekid

First figure out what you want to do with the car. Determine its purpose and then people can better help you.

Regardless, I would build the suspension first. Build a car with suspension and a motor you can "outdrive" instead of a car with a crapload of power you don't even know what to do with.

You leave yourself the possibility to improve your driving with your suspension fully addressed. Here's how it could go:

1. You build the motor all out with like 400hp and don't really touch the suspension besides coilovers. Let's say you go to the track (does'nt matter how you race) but you might lose control because you never adjusted your suspension to how you will drive. You might crash and say goodbye to your 240 minus the motor if you can salvage it and the 3 wheels that didnt get destroyed.

2. Start from the ground up like how everyone says. I thought I could build a motor and worry about suspension later. I was wrong. There is a lot down there that you can make better. Believe me, you can go apeshit with spending money on stuff down there.

I'm getting close to finishing up only my Rear suspension and I already have over 2 grand out back with a stock differential not counting coilovers. I still have the front to do.

I know there are plenty of people who can swap in a junkyard v8 for under 2 grand.
You can always find a motor. Do the motor last if you already have your ka or sr running properly.


I would recommend you
-google some suspension basics threads, roll center thread here is very informative
-I see that your sig says your car is low, search for the SPL parts geometry correction pdf on their site, splparts.com
-Look into getting an aluminum steering bushing
-isis rear arm package is like $400, it's a good start to learning how to adjust all the settings to where you want it. If you crash, you won't feel too bad about it versus crashing with $1200+ arms.
-traction arms you don't need yet
-buy good tires
- I hope you have a good BMC to go with the wilwoods


I was also broke early last year and now I'm going full on racecar with my 240. Be patient, spend money where you need to once you finally understand that you need to spend it on the suspension and not a 600hp ls1.

Simply put, the difference between 500hp 240's and 500hp corvettes is that from the factory, the corvette was built to handle the power and keep you going in the right direction. The 240sx was built for the middle aged woman back in the day.

conrad_s13.5

First upgrade driver,..then upgrade car

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racepar1

It is best to learn with a lower horsepower car whether you are drifting, autocrossing, or road racing. This is because it forces you to hone important skills that can be somewhat supplemented with horsepower. With a low horsepower car driving technique is very important. Understanding and executing actual racing lines, smooth precise inputs, braking point, entry speed, apex, etc... are all magnified in importance due to the low power. If you go off-line in a low powered car, you're fucked. If you go off-line in a high powered car you can recover easier. Basically learning on a lower powered car teaches you to be more precise and disciplined with your driving. When you combine that kind of technique with a lot of horsepower then you have something special...