DSC

HEY! CHECK THIS OUT!
Just found this article on turnfast <a href="http://www.turnfast.com/tech_handling/handling_weightxfr.lasso" target='_blank'>http://www.turnfast.com/tech_handling/handling_weightxfr.lasso</a> Now that I see it, I remember reading it before but obviously didn't remember a #### thing from it <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>
Its a great article...sums it all up into an easy-to-read format with pics.

I must say, zilvia.net and turnfast.com have been the two single most helpfull sites I have been too for car information.

(Edited by DSC at 11:47 pm on Feb. 21, 2002)

tnord

why would we not worry about the force applied to the outside tires? the outside tires are the ones constraining our performance. maximum grip is NEVER obtained by the inside tires. if we lessen the force applied to the outside tires, we can go faster, once again reaching maximum potential. but yes i do understand that the more work the insides do the less load the outsides bear.

iirc.......the weight transfer is the same when cornering with stock suspension as it is with aftermarket. but actual force applied to the tires (which in the end, is the only thing that matters) is less. remember the force applied to the tires has to go through springs and shocks among other things first. with better springs more of the force is absorbed, transformed into heat, and dissipated into the atmosphere.

essentially, if what i think is right actually is........
i was right in saying that less force is applied, because while the car transfers the same weight, not the same weight actually reaches the tires. remember that tires always have the same potential for grip, replacing springs doesn't magically give them more grip
also.....
everyone else was right because in pure form, yes the same weight is transferred.

random comments.....
1. using the term &quot;weight&quot; is appropriate because weight is a measure of force (mass*gravity?), not mass, mass is measured in kg
2. i don't think anyone here is an expert, so to whomever reads this, take everything you read with a grain of salt, even though some of us think we know it all, we don't
3. i also support turnfast.com..........great site

(Edited by tnord at 12:39 am on Feb. 22, 2002)

240racer

Lance, that is a good way to say what is happening, thanks for putting it in a different manor.
Mason, left to right weight dist. is almost always 50/50 unless you are racing ovals or something. &nbsp;Also, corner weights make a huge difference, but most people do not have access to level scales and they also don't race. &nbsp;However, I would suggest that anybody who has coilovers find a shop and at least get them set up once, then you don't have to worry about your ride heights being off. &nbsp;Like Mason said the entire reasont to have adj. coilovers is to adjust ride height for corner weights and for ground clearance.
Some people were concerned about when a car is lowered too much. &nbsp;This can have a neg. affect on things. &nbsp;You have to remember that the car was designed around a certain ride height. &nbsp;Making sure your camber is still good is very important, especially in the front with the struts.

Changing springs does not affect the amount of work the inside tires do, it only affects the camber change. &nbsp;Also, like mason said, if the springs are too stiff then you will not have as much traction on bumps. &nbsp;Also, the anti-roll bars actually transfer weight from the inside tire to the outside tire, that is how they prevent the body from rolling. &nbsp;This is obvious when the inside tire is lifted off the ground, all the load has been transfered. In auto-x transient response is most important, however on fast road courses or ovals ultimate cornering power is more important so you are always going to run stiff anti-roll bars in auto-x then you will on a road course. &nbsp;Also a car set up very well for auto-x would suck on the highway.

If you want more material on these topics I suggest two books
Tune to Win by Carroll Smith
<a href="http://www.carrollsmith.com/books/index.html

Race" target="_blank">http://www.carrollsmith.com/books/index.html

Race</a> car Vehicle Dynamics by Milliken.
<a href="http://www.millikenresearch.com/rcvd.html

the" target="_blank">http://www.millikenresearch.com/rcvd.html

the</a> second book reads like a math book, so it sucks, but for looking up things it is the best. &nbsp;It is used at many universities as a race car engineering course text book.

240racer

DSC mentioned dependant suspension early in the post. &nbsp;If you had very stiff anti-roll bars then the car would esentially turn into a solid axle type suspension because if you hit a bump with one tire, the anti-roll bar is so stiff it will cause the other tire to move to. &nbsp;However the nice part about not having a solid axle is that we don't always have that problem, only when we run a very stiff roll bar. &nbsp;I don't think that any of thge roll bars that anybody sells are stiff enough to notice this type of thing, but it is a good point. &nbsp;Also, I think you were refering to springs and no they really don't make it dependant no matter how stiff they are.
Adam