wherezmytofu

does it matter?

DamnedButDetermined

not really

I already got my point across!

silvia240

dood, no body opens a business to loose money.

octane103

........as opposed to tight money??

KEINsm

There's a reason why Nismo only used the S13 coupe for racing, rather than the RPS13.
Even with the S12 Gazelle, Nismo based their race cars off the couple and not the hatchback.
Of course in racing, you need to have room for the rear spoiler but it may also be for the better rear chassis reinforcement (like people have already mentioned).
I don't think it makes a whole lot of difference in Auto-X or weekend track runs though.

AKADriver

Actually, some of the S12 race cars were fastbacks. The 200SX V6 rally cars were all fastbacks.

AKADriver

More S12 fastback fun!

RedlineRacer

Doesn't Kugochi only use fastbacks? I've never seen him in a coupe.

nokeone

i know this is slightly off topic (looks rather then performance) but just my personal preference is the Coupe with a Silvia front end conversion...to me that is the best looking combo...

as for performance...i guess it depends on what you want it for...

but i've seen both drift wonderfully...and i've seen both smoke other, should be better, cars at a track...

i think any difference is negligable..

__________________
panda; rockin your socks from the Bay to LA to SD, yay!
Pink GodziRa

Dousan_PG

first
its Koguchi

second, he owns TOO MANY CARS
yes he has a coupe. kouki wing and blue. 400ish HP
how many cars you ask? let me count (i think he just got a old US Domestic i saw him drifting around it-SICK!!!!! )

this is probably old count from jan. 03 young version butyou'll get the jist..oh this is CURRENT too! not his entire life time w/ the S-chassis/various cars

DR30
GX71
DR30 (x2)
s13 (i dotn know what it says after aht..something different ig uess?)
BMW 30CS
A1755A (i've no idea what this is) (x3)
180sx (x6) = fastback
s13 (x2) = silvia
JZX81 (mark II)
JZZ30 (soarer)

he's da shi*t! and a very nice guy too!

__________________
Aaron
Pink GodziRa
www.geocities.com/pink_godzira

mrmephistopheles

don't forget.. he's got
1337 x 11ty billion

RedlineRacer

Sorry Dousan, I forgot he is your hero. You got any pics of his coupes? I would like to see them. Does he have a website?

Dousan_PG

yeah he is. i've been a koguchi fan for a few years. the reason i got so interested in drifting 2.5 years ago hehe..

anyways..pics yes i have one or 2....of the blue coupe w/ GTR wheels (fronts are Advan Model 5s) and s14 kouki ks wing
sexy!
these pics were tire testing articles.
iirc, car made like 400hp or so..maybe 350?? i forget the turbine size too.


website? no. koguchi power has no website, it is small company. my friend is calling them (he better-i gave them his number) to try and get me some products so hopefully he'll do it! he's in japan right now.lucky guy!

__________________
Aaron
Pink GodziRa
www.geocities.com/pink_godzira

RedlineRacer

OMG, I love his coupe. What kind of products is your friend getting?

EDIT: I love Advan Model 5's. I wish I had $2500 and I would get a set. Do you know of anyone who makes a good rim that resembles it?

Dousan_PG

i told him to call and get me the hood spoiler koguchi power makes and some other little things from various companies. he is lazy though so i dont have high hopes. but see what he can do with 240 dollars
japan IS NOT like usa. most thing need to be ordered so his friend might ship it back to me if needs be. no worries

__________________
Aaron
Pink GodziRa
www.geocities.com/pink_godzira

Dousan_PG

there are a few
but i DONT support knockoffs and hate poeple who buy that junk. buy the real thing, they are stress tested as well as well built (forged maybe?)

anyways, knockoffs suck

__________________
Aaron
Pink GodziRa
www.geocities.com/pink_godzira

RedlineRacer

Yeah, I agree with you, thats why I said "do you know any good rims that resemble it", because I know you hate cheap knockoffs. But I am a cheap college student who loves 240's.

nokeone

yeah those are sweet wheels..

these are similar, of good quality, and less money:

5zigen Typhoone



Advan Model 5



obviously the Advans are way nicer...lol...but yeah..

__________________
panda; rockin your socks from the Bay to LA to SD, yay!
Pink GodziRa

RedlineRacer

Yeah, I use to like the typhoons. But I just don't like that deep dish look of them. I think I am just gonna settle on some 5zigen Fireballs.

kpark129

well here's a fact the s13 has better weight distribution compared to a 180sx in japan. but in the US the hatch as a slight advantage in weight distribution compared to the coupe but convert both of the hatch and the coupe into a 180sx and a s13 then the weight dist. goes to the s13.

NekoPunch

Not all roll cages increase stiffness. Furthermore, you would have to weld the roll cage to the roof in order to counter all the flex you get from the hatch.

Exactly.

But all you have to do is add more weight to the back of the coupe. Simple as that. You can add it at a lower point too in order to keep the center of gravity lower.

Umm, sure.... I weighed my 89 coupe w/ SR20DET and Silvia front end, full tank of gas, full interior, no driver, and the weight distro came out to 54/46. I could make it near 50/50 by throwing a couple hundred pounds in the trunk, but that would be idiotic.

The weight difference is probably negligible comparing an SR20DET to a non-turbo KA, due to the weight of the turbo and whatnot. But various sources claim the SR short block is around 30-40lbs lighter than the KA.

If you get the '02 D1 Round 4 (Tsukuba) DVD, there's a cool bio on Koguchi with some footage of his first appearance on Vid Option many many years ago. He was probably in his early 20's and a monster even back then pulling some crazy entry speeds.

I'm heading over to Japan next week, so let me know what you're looking for and I'll try to pick it up 4u. Plus, I'm going to Fuji Speedway on 7/6 to watch D1 Round 4. Can you believe it? F'n FUJI SPEEDWAY!!! First D1GP ever held there.

Umm, no. Weight distribution is similar for Japanese and U.S. models.

I have both an 89 coupe and an 89 fastback. If you drive a fastback slowly over a small hill or do some quick maneuvers, you'll hear the hatch glass creaking and feel/hear the body flexing a LOT more than the coupe. But whether this makes a difference on the track is tough to say.

Two factors nobody has really mentioned. With the fastback you've got a lot more carrying capacity for tires, tools, etc. This is great for trips to the track. Also, nobody mentioned visibility. I like the visibility out of the coupe, but some might prefer the larger view out of the fastback glass and this can possibly help during an intense race.

__________________
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
http://www.nekopunch.com

302INMY240

the fastback does creak when you pull crooked in to a driveway, but with a foamfilled chassis, atleast a rear strutbar or a maybe even a 6-point rollbar with a cross brace, it wouldnt be any less stiff than a coupe with the same chassis mods.

i would definitely say, that the fastback has a lower coeficient of drag based on what i learned in my fluid mechanics course at school, but i do think that this would only make a big difference at very high speeds between the stock usdm variations, such as 160 and over.

i do think more of a difference would be noticed though between the fastback or 180sx, and the jdm silvia because of its more squarish front and back, and i think that could be proven to be a bigger difference.

ONE more consideration is that the tracks in japan are generally smaller and allow lower top speeds, meaning it doesnt matter, and you might notice the s15 is a fastback,
ok im done

TBreu007

I have an ITS S13 coupe I fully prepped myself. I know of at least one person here in the SE that has a ITA hatch. He can't make minimum weight, but still does well.
The main disadvantage of using the hatch is weight. The 80lbs or so more that they weigh is a huge penalty in racing. Since you can't replace any windows with Lexan or replace body panels with CF or fiberglass, you're pretty much stuck with a heavier car.
FWIW, with a nice custom SCCA legal cage, I could make a hatch as stiff as a coupe, but once again, the added weight of the tubing would probably negate the better aero of the hatch.
As far as weight distribution...with a car as close to 50/50 as the 240 is, changing spring rates can easily make the car as neutral as anything on the track.

nokeone

i'd like to see a show of hands of who on this board is actually using their cars to the fullest potential where all the factors mentioned would even make a noticable difference...

__________________
panda; rockin your socks from the Bay to LA to SD, yay!
Pink GodziRa

TBreu007

Me

My post was answering DSC's initial post about which was best for racing and why. If DSC is building a true race car and was posting a question on it, I would hope he's prepping it to it's "fullest potential" otherwise what's the use.