KA-t VS. RB25 (or something that will beat a srt8 300c) - Page 2 - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

Mr.Clerc · 07-31-2012, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sileighty_85

lol the guy is talking about wanting to beat a Chrysler 300 SRT-8. Which is rated at 425 crank, so with the power of math we can see that there is no need to double the power capabilities of the RB seeing that it can handle over 500 stock and that a S-Chassis with have a better power to weight ratio.

So your argument is moot.

Thanks for playing.

Jeeps are even slower than that hahaha my buddies only has 411 and he has a full intake with the borla exhaust ( jeeps are slooooowwwww) even a ka with 350 should beat him trust me. my cousins z28 camaro has 310 to the wheels and beat this jeep twice on the taconic. if you want to beat a jeep and save money go ka aha

*fliprayzin240sx* · 07-31-2012, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by booey13

Not to get your panties in a bunch but you'd obviously want to do the same when doubling the horsepower on a stock rb25. If you want to do things "right" that is. And as I already said op mentioned cost being a factor.

Well, heres the kicker about RB25s, I know enough folks in Okinawa who were pushing over 500-600hp on a fully stock RB25 bottom end. To get a KA to push over 300 reliably, good idea to change those pistons first correct?

bunny13 · 07-31-2012, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fliprayzin240sx

Well, heres the kicker about RB25s, I know enough folks in Okinawa who were pushing over 500-600hp on a fully stock RB25 bottom end. To get a KA to push over 300 reliably, good idea to change those pistons first correct?

Talk to this guy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkW_BjrtWmA

booey13 · 07-31-2012, 08:51 PM

Of course its a good idea. But it's already been noted with a good tune it's the rods that are the weak point.

toast240sx · 07-31-2012, 09:04 PM

I'm getting some good advice! thank you to everyone so far. I didn't see the part in the rules about not talking about street racing so I'm sorry about that won't happen again.

I have an s14 SE with 215,xxx miles on it and i was given another KA by my friend to build if i wanted, i haven't had time to do anything to it because of work so i am just trying to get some info on what i should do. i love the idea of getting a RB25 in my car but it is a lil expensive but in a few months that's not really going to bother me much. where i'm from you don't really see a properly built KA-t. my plan was to do all new internals and then turbo.

jesse_s13 · 07-31-2012, 09:05 PM

First stop trying to 1 up your buddy shit gets annoying. If you just want to beat him once on a track then slap a turbo on your car. Once it blows build it (assuming you have the funds).

Sileighty_85 · 07-31-2012, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bunny13

Talk to this guy.

30PSI on a KA with Stock Internals. - YouTube

So a guy makes a few pulls at 30 psi for one day and Every KA can do that?

Is this exact engine still running to this day?

I dont mean "Yeah he DD's it at 8psi everyday". I'm talking drift/track/drag at 30psi every weekend.

Quote:

Originally Posted by booey13

Of course its a good idea. But it's already been noted with a good tune it's the rods that are the weak point.

Im no KA guru but from what ive read its the pistons that are weak. Since the are not forged and having thin ring lands.

bunny13 · 07-31-2012, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sileighty_85

So a guy makes a few pulls at 30 psi for one day and Every KA can do that?

Is this exact engine still running to this day?

I dont mean "Yeah he DD's it at 8psi everyday". I'm talking drift/track/drag at 30psi every weekend.

Im no KA guru but from what ive read its the pistons that are weak. Since the are not forged and having thin ring lands.

No that car had the shit beat out of it and held up fine. And the ring lands usually give out due to detonation, which can happen to even aftermarket pistons and in any motor at that. Not saying aftermarkets aren't stronger, but if the tune is right, AFR's are good, and knock is low I am willing to bet rod failure will occur way before piston failure.

Don't forget this KA was somewhere in the ballpark of having 180k miles on it.

Matej · 07-31-2012, 09:51 PM

Beat your friend at Halo or something and call it even.

Sileighty_85 · 07-31-2012, 10:00 PM

"Held" meaning past tense, so its blown up by now? Detonation is not the only reason for failed ring lands. Materials exceeding their designed power goals will make them fail.

boosted EJ engines require aftermarket pistons at 400 due to non forged internals and thin ring lands

Ive yet to hear on here of a aftermarket piston ring lands cracking. My SR running Wiseco Pistons see a fair share of high 80's knock, been running like that and drifting it for 3 years with no issues at all. Just needs a retune.

Companies could save money and material if they could use thinner ring lands. But they cant cuz a thicker ring land is required to withstand the power.

bunny13 · 07-31-2012, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sileighty_85

"Held" meaning past tense, so its blown up by now? Detonation is not the only reason for failed ring lands. Materials exceeding their designed power goals will make them fail.

boosted EJ engines require aftermarket pistons at 400 due to non forged internals and thin ring lands

Ive yet to hear on hear of a aftermarket piston ring lands cracking. My SR running Wiseco Pistons see a fair share of high 80's knock, been running like that and drifting it for 3 years with no issues at all. Just needs a retune.

Companies could save money and material if they could use thinner ring lands. But they cant cuz a thicker ring land is required to withstand the power.

Of course it's not the only reason. But notice I wasn't just talking about any ringlands. I was talking specifically about the KA's stock piston ringlands. And I'm not really looking to get into a pissing match. I'm just letting OP know that turboing his stock KA is not a bad idea at all if done correctly.

bunny13 · 07-31-2012, 10:09 PM

As for how long that engine lasted, I'm not sure that it ever did blow up. I'd have to do some hunting around to recall what became of it. Feel free to do that if you'd like. As for what that same guy is up to now....more stock internal awesomeness:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGZUr...hannel&list=UL

bunny13 · 07-31-2012, 10:55 PM

Just went back and looked to refresh my memory. The current stock block Ka-t record holder's engine put down 575whp (not J. Taylor) and lasted for some time, but eventually ended up having rod failure. The ringland's were not the culprit when that KA blew.

zerodameaon · 08-01-2012, 02:39 AM

PSI is cool and all but you also have to factor in CFM. You can have 30psi on a T25 and its not going to hold a match to 30PSI on a TO4E-60.

Edit: OK so I somehow missed the turbo that car had the first time through, a HX40 is pretty decent.
I am going to have to side with Slieighty here, KAs should not be pushed over 300 on stock if you want to have the motor last past break in. That engine is a one in a production run chance of getting a stock engine that can withstand that kind of torture.

bunny13 · 08-01-2012, 02:44 AM

Holset HX40 was used on J. Taylor's car

bunny13 · 08-01-2012, 02:54 AM

What about the other record car? J. Taylor had the record at 528whp but Abel Racing hit 575 after that. So two engines in a production run?

booey13 · 08-01-2012, 03:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zerodameaon

PSI is cool and all but you also have to factor in CFM. You can have 30psi on a T25 and its not going to hold a match to 30PSI on a TO4E-60.

Edit: OK so I somehow missed the turbo that car had the first time through, a HX40 is pretty decent.
I am going to have to side with Slieighty here, KAs should not be pushed over 300 on stock if you want to have the motor last past break in. That engine is a one in a production run chance of getting a stock engine that can withstand that kind of torture.

How do you miss the turbo when it put down over 500hp? No way on a t25.

zerodameaon · 08-01-2012, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by booey13

How do you miss the turbo when it put down over 500hp? No way on a t25.

I missed that it stated a HX40 the first time I watched the video, it flashes the info quick and I wasn't paying attention. And yes you can push 30PSI out of the right T25 but its not going to give you any benefit over say 15. Also let me see you push 400+ on a 150kmi+ car you buy off craigslist, one that has been driven normal, not beat on or babied its whole life. If you can have it do that for more then a year(read reliably) dailying. Not 2 track days in a year or 500mi in that time then you are extremely lucky.

This is folklore mind you but John Henry beat a steam hammer but died as a result. So think of it this way, cool you hit 570 but your engine blew up, you have a record but all your work is done for, if it was done right the first time that engine could still be running.

bunny13 · 08-01-2012, 04:41 PM

Yes, the motor blew at 575 due to rod failure. Because they were pushing the motor to its absolute limits with stock internals. But let's say that they backed the boost off and ran it at 450whp. Are you still going to tell me that you know for a fact that the motor was going to blow up? It's easy to dismiss these results when one is such a skeptic. It's kind of the dyno results versus your word.

I don't recall what became of Jeff Taylor's engine in the grand scheme of things, but I do recall him saying at one point he had clocked over 2000 hard miles on that setup and it was still running strong.

booey13 · 08-01-2012, 05:35 PM

My point was you saw 30psi and 500hp. And guessed t25. Anyone well educated on turbo systems knows 30psi is stupid on that kind of a turbo. And let's say you have a 150k+ mile rb25 and push it to 500hp. I suppose it'll last forever? It boils down to personal preference, motor condition, and how much you're willing to spend. If you wanna sit there and tell me every ka will blow at 400 without being built you're a fool. Ka-t.org. Do your research. /thread

jr_ss · 08-01-2012, 07:59 PM

This thread is just as dumb as the SR vs KA threads. You all are arguing semantics. So what if a stock KA made xxx hp and an RB can handle xxx in stock trim. You have to pay to play, shit breaks and/or blows up. Buy what you can afford without using knock-off junk and be happy or shut the fuck up.

booey13 · 08-01-2012, 08:23 PM

^exactly my point throughout this thread.

zerodameaon · 08-01-2012, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by booey13

My point was you saw 30psi and 500hp. And guessed t25. Anyone well educated on turbo systems knows 30psi is stupid on that kind of a turbo. And let's say you have a 150k+ mile rb25 and push it to 500hp. I suppose it'll last forever? It boils down to personal preference, motor condition, and how much you're willing to spend. If you wanna sit there and tell me every ka will blow at 400 without being built you're a fool. Ka-t.org. Do your research. /thread

Your the one assuming I was assuming.
I never assumed T25 I just used that as a comparison, and I never once said anything about 30psi being a great idea, its down right stupid. I chose close to the smallest turbo you will see on a Nissan and one of the larger ones you will commonly find. The rest...

Again you assume to much grasshopper.
I will leave it at that.

booey13 · 08-02-2012, 12:13 AM

Lol at editing your post. Yes leave it at that. You saw the video...500hp/30psi. And then you made the t25/cfm comment. So you were just pulling that out of your ass? What was your reasoning behind that?

zerodameaon · 08-02-2012, 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zerodameaon

I chose close to the smallest turbo you will see on a Nissan and one of the larger ones you will commonly find.

Quote:

Originally Posted by booey13

Lol at editing your post. Yes leave it at that. You saw the video...500hp/30psi. And then you made the t25/cfm comment. So you were just pulling that out of your ass? What was your reasoning behind that?

Your right I did edit, decided to just make it simple for you. You just proved my thinking with the end of your post.

bunny13 · 08-02-2012, 12:34 AM

Okay, so you pulled the t25 part out of your ass. But regardless of boost or CFM as you mentioned, the car still made 528hp. And that's what we're ultimately talking about is how much a stock KA can handle. So your CFM comment made next to no sense.

07-31-2012, 08:51 PM	#34
booey13 Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Midwest Age: 31 Posts: 1,401 Trader Rating: (91) Feedback Score: 91 reviews	Of course its a good idea. But it's already been noted with a good tune it's the rods that are the weak point. __________________ www.monkeyboysyo.blogspot.com

07-31-2012, 09:05 PM	#36
jesse_s13 Nissanaholic! Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Sacramento,CA/Fresno,CA/El Paso,Tx Posts: 1,829 Trader Rating: (5) Feedback Score: 5 reviews	First stop trying to 1 up your buddy shit gets annoying. If you just want to beat him once on a track then slap a turbo on your car. Once it blows build it (assuming you have the funds). __________________

07-31-2012, 10:00 PM	#40
Sileighty_85 Post Whore! Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Misawa, Japan Posts: 6,815 Trader Rating: (8) Feedback Score: 8 reviews	"Held" meaning past tense, so its blown up by now? Detonation is not the only reason for failed ring lands. Materials exceeding their designed power goals will make them fail. boosted EJ engines require aftermarket pistons at 400 due to non forged internals and thin ring lands Ive yet to hear on here of a aftermarket piston ring lands cracking. My SR running Wiseco Pistons see a fair share of high 80's knock, been running like that and drifting it for 3 years with no issues at all. Just needs a retune. Companies could save money and material if they could use thinner ring lands. But they cant cuz a thicker ring land is required to withstand the power. __________________ 後輪駆動車１番 1989 Built SR GT2871R -363whp 1998 S14 W/RB25- 250ish (For Now) 1986 SR86 - 200ish 1990 R32 GTR - 320hp Don't Buy Engines from JDM-Online http://zilvia.net/f/businesses/207457-jdm-online.html Don't Buy XS-Power or SSAC Shit

07-31-2012, 10:09 PM	#42
bunny13 Zilvia Addict Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Right Here Age: 31 Posts: 725 Trader Rating: (21) Feedback Score: 21 reviews	As for how long that engine lasted, I'm not sure that it ever did blow up. I'd have to do some hunting around to recall what became of it. Feel free to do that if you'd like. As for what that same guy is up to now....more stock internal awesomeness: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGZUr...hannel&list=UL __________________ http://monkeyboysyo.blogspot.com/

07-31-2012, 10:55 PM	#43
bunny13 Zilvia Addict Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Right Here Age: 31 Posts: 725 Trader Rating: (21) Feedback Score: 21 reviews	Just went back and looked to refresh my memory. The current stock block Ka-t record holder's engine put down 575whp (not J. Taylor) and lasted for some time, but eventually ended up having rod failure. The ringland's were not the culprit when that KA blew. __________________ http://monkeyboysyo.blogspot.com/

07-31-2012, 09:04 PM	#35
toast240sx Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Alabama Age: 30 Posts: 8 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	I'm getting some good advice! thank you to everyone so far. I didn't see the part in the rules about not talking about street racing so I'm sorry about that won't happen again. I have an s14 SE with 215,xxx miles on it and i was given another KA by my friend to build if i wanted, i haven't had time to do anything to it because of work so i am just trying to get some info on what i should do. i love the idea of getting a RB25 in my car but it is a lil expensive but in a few months that's not really going to bother me much. where i'm from you don't really see a properly built KA-t. my plan was to do all new internals and then turbo.

07-31-2012, 09:51 PM	#39
Matej Post Whore! Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: N/A Posts: 9,423 Trader Rating: (39) Feedback Score: 39 reviews	Beat your friend at Halo or something and call it even.

08-01-2012, 02:44 AM	#45
bunny13 Zilvia Addict Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Right Here Age: 31 Posts: 725 Trader Rating: (21) Feedback Score: 21 reviews	Holset HX40 was used on J. Taylor's car __________________ http://monkeyboysyo.blogspot.com/

08-01-2012, 02:54 AM	#46
bunny13 Zilvia Addict Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Right Here Age: 31 Posts: 725 Trader Rating: (21) Feedback Score: 21 reviews	What about the other record car? J. Taylor had the record at 528whp but Abel Racing hit 575 after that. So two engines in a production run? __________________ http://monkeyboysyo.blogspot.com/

08-01-2012, 04:41 PM	#49
bunny13 Zilvia Addict Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Right Here Age: 31 Posts: 725 Trader Rating: (21) Feedback Score: 21 reviews	Yes, the motor blew at 575 due to rod failure. Because they were pushing the motor to its absolute limits with stock internals. But let's say that they backed the boost off and ran it at 450whp. Are you still going to tell me that you know for a fact that the motor was going to blow up? It's easy to dismiss these results when one is such a skeptic. It's kind of the dyno results versus your word. I don't recall what became of Jeff Taylor's engine in the grand scheme of things, but I do recall him saying at one point he had clocked over 2000 hard miles on that setup and it was still running strong. __________________ http://monkeyboysyo.blogspot.com/

08-01-2012, 05:35 PM	#50
booey13 Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Midwest Age: 31 Posts: 1,401 Trader Rating: (91) Feedback Score: 91 reviews	My point was you saw 30psi and 500hp. And guessed t25. Anyone well educated on turbo systems knows 30psi is stupid on that kind of a turbo. And let's say you have a 150k+ mile rb25 and push it to 500hp. I suppose it'll last forever? It boils down to personal preference, motor condition, and how much you're willing to spend. If you wanna sit there and tell me every ka will blow at 400 without being built you're a fool. Ka-t.org. Do your research. /thread __________________ www.monkeyboysyo.blogspot.com

08-01-2012, 07:59 PM	#51
jr_ss Post Whore! Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Pa Posts: 6,052 Trader Rating: (34) Feedback Score: 34 reviews	This thread is just as dumb as the SR vs KA threads. You all are arguing semantics. So what if a stock KA made xxx hp and an RB can handle xxx in stock trim. You have to pay to play, shit breaks and/or blows up. Buy what you can afford without using knock-off junk and be happy or shut the fuck up. __________________ My SR20VET

08-01-2012, 08:23 PM	#52
booey13 Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Midwest Age: 31 Posts: 1,401 Trader Rating: (91) Feedback Score: 91 reviews	^exactly my point throughout this thread. __________________ www.monkeyboysyo.blogspot.com

08-02-2012, 12:13 AM	#54
booey13 Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Midwest Age: 31 Posts: 1,401 Trader Rating: (91) Feedback Score: 91 reviews	Lol at editing your post. Yes leave it at that. You saw the video...500hp/30psi. And then you made the t25/cfm comment. So you were just pulling that out of your ass? What was your reasoning behind that? __________________ www.monkeyboysyo.blogspot.com

08-02-2012, 12:34 AM	#56
bunny13 Zilvia Addict Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Right Here Age: 31 Posts: 725 Trader Rating: (21) Feedback Score: 21 reviews	Okay, so you pulled the t25 part out of your ass. But regardless of boost or CFM as you mentioned, the car still made 528hp. And that's what we're ultimately talking about is how much a stock KA can handle. So your CFM comment made next to no sense. __________________ http://monkeyboysyo.blogspot.com/

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