s14 factory fuel tank ventilation - the 3rd hard line - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

s14unimog · 07-10-2011, 10:12 AM

So I'm in the process of putting my car back together and would like to clean up the fuel lines as they enter the engine bay. Originally there are 3 hard lines (feed, return, ventilation), my question pertains to that vent line. For years I've run with that line just left open to atmosphere and never had any issues with my tank, fuel pressure, gassy smells, etc... so I assumed it hasn't been hurtful to the operation of the tank ventilation.

So my question is what exactly does that hard line do for the tank? If I can recall, I wanted to say it was supposed to be for ventilating fuel smell into a canister to suppress the odor but most of my OEM stuff is long gone and I don't have any fuel odors . Does anyone have any experience with the OEM tank assembly/functionality that could shed some light on what you should/shouldn't do in respect to ventilation?

Thanks!

mushmonster · 07-10-2011, 03:48 PM

that line does indeed go to the charcoal canister and its to collect fuel vapor. you can cut it all the way back to the tank add a rubber hose coiled 2 or 3 times and mount it high above the tank. correct me if im wrong zilvia, I was going to keep it this way untill i install a fuel cell. I know that some fuel cells have one or more breathers with a roll over valve.

s14unimog · 07-11-2011, 01:43 PM

Are the additional coils you mentioned to protect from over flow slosh with a full tank? Does is also involve the canister located in the passenger side rear fender well? There are number of vacuum lines going to this but I haven't looked closely at it.

What is strange is that this topic seems untouched within the Zilvia archives

s14unimog · 07-15-2011, 12:29 PM

Bump to the top... Anyone other experiences?

KiLLeR2001 · 07-15-2011, 03:23 PM

Not sure if I would leave it fully open. On the s13 there is a 2-way valve in-line with the ventilation line. When gas leaves the tank this valve sucks in air (as well as the gas gap). And most importantly, when pressure is too great it'll release vapors out of the ventilation line.

I would think if you just let it open, gas would evaporate quicker and you will have to fill up more frequently. Not to mention if your tank is metal and moisture enters, rust will form.

S13: http://www.courtesyparts.com/17330-v...4-p-65084.html
S14: http://www.courtesyparts.com/17370-v...-p-185107.html

s14unimog · 07-18-2011, 01:16 PM

Thanks for the links, I wonder where they're mounted on the chassis; I'll have to get under there and look. As for the tank, it's an OEM unit so that's plastic.

92lt1 · 07-19-2011, 11:56 AM

i would like to know as well, i just did a small block chevy swap and right now just have the line open in the engine bay

codyace · 07-19-2011, 11:05 PM

I use the line to house wires for the meth pump and 2nd fuel pump. Don't even worry about it. Tank still holds pressure as it releases when I fill it up.

s14unimog · 07-20-2011, 11:20 AM

^ I'm not exactly "worried" about it but rather looking at how its placement/routing plays a roll in the tank's operation. Once I get done with my tubs I'll really dissect it but I was hoping others have dealt with this and can shed some light on it. I don't like unnecessary parts on the car.

codyace · 07-20-2011, 02:53 PM

It comes out of the rear vent deal in the back passenger corner of our cars I'm almost positive, as above I simply cut it, and then ran my wires through it to help protect them...it was a mofugga to get them through but it did work.

jr_ss · 07-20-2011, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by codyace

It comes out of the rear vent deal in the back passenger corner of our cars I'm almost positive, as above I simply cut it, and then ran my wires through it to help protect them...it was a mofugga to get them through but it did work.

Should've used some electricians string and a vacuum to suck it through the line. However, that is a great way to run wires front to back or vice versa...

I'm about to remove the vent line and my factory feed for my -6an fuel lines. I'll probably run the vent up to the fuel filler neck and tie it in there...

codyace · 07-20-2011, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jr_ss

Should've used some electricians string and a vacuum to suck it through the line. However, that is a great way to run wires front to back or vice versa...

I'm about to remove the vent line and my factory feed for my -6an fuel lines. I'll probably run the vent up to the fuel filler neck and tie it in there...

That's exactly what I did, but after 3 wires (fuel pump rewire, meth pump wire, and wire for 2nd pump) it became a little tight (albiet worked) A little synthetic lube goes a long way with that stuff.

s14unimog · 07-21-2011, 01:03 PM

So it does run into that canister in the back passenger side corner? Once I get the car back at the house this weekend, I'm going to crawl under there and get it sorted. Silicone lube can really help in a tight spot.

codyace · 07-21-2011, 01:23 PM

Offtopic: We use this stuff called SuperLube at the shop, really works well.

jr_ss · 07-22-2011, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by codyace

Offtopic: We use this stuff called SuperLube at the shop, really works well.

You can find the lube at Lowe's in the electrical section. Stuff is super slick and water soluble...

s14unimog · 07-23-2011, 08:56 AM

Okay, Silicone lube covered.... Let's try and stay on topic. I brought my car back from the shop last night so I'll finally get a chance to get back under it.

jr_ss · 07-23-2011, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by s14unimog

Okay, Silicone lube covered.... Let's try and stay on topic. I brought my car back from the shop last night so I'll finally get a chance to get back under it.

I need to crawl under mine as well. I need to pull the lines out to have the bay painted anyway. I'd like to remove the feed line and vent line altogether, I'll be running a -6AN line for feed and using the factory return.

s14unimog · 07-24-2011, 11:20 AM

^same here, I just got my tubs finished but had to do it up at my work; for the welding equipment. Now that I've got it back at the house i've got to get the bay stripped for painting; I might as well ditch that line if I'm not using it.

I'll let ya know what I figure out.

s14unimog · 07-26-2011, 07:23 AM

just to update, I finally found some information in my 240SX FSM in the extensive trouble shooting section. I will post pictures of the page referencing the charcoal canister but that little box in the back is only there to help eliminate fumes emitted from the tank. That vacuum line (or third hard line in the engine bay) is what facilitates the vacuum to draw fumes into the canister; it actually runs through a check valve to prevent un-metered air from entering the engine. Actually there are provisions for checking its operation, as well as the fuel cap. It does seem tho, that you can eliminate that entire assembly as the fuel cap (If an OEM unit) is pressure and vacuum rated; so the fuel cap should prevent any excessive build up of pressure or negative pressure in the tank; plus the tank has a separate overflow line to the filler neck. I will trace the lines out on my car and clarify Nissan's wording a little.

KiLLeR2001 · 07-26-2011, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by s14unimog

It does seem tho, that you can eliminate that entire assembly as the fuel cap (If an OEM unit) is pressure and vacuum rated; so the fuel cap should prevent any excessive build up of pressure or negative pressure in the tank; plus the tank has a separate overflow line to the filler neck. I will trace the lines out on my car and clarify Nissan's wording a little.

Negative. The OEM fuel cap is vacuum rated ONLY. It WILL NOT release excess pressure build up (unless you unscrew it of course). The fuel check valve that is in-line with the ventilation line acts as a two-way valve. It's clearly illustrated in the FSM (see EF & EC 194).

s14unimog · 07-26-2011, 12:53 PM

I'll show you the excerpt I'm referencing from the FSM trouble shooting guide but it clearly says that it is both vacuum and pressure rated, no lie. My first notion was that it can't be as we're all very familiar with the pressure release when unscrewing the cap but I assure you its clearly stated in the FSM; that's why I said I wanted to test mine and it has to be an OEM unit.

Also note, there are multiple check valves related to this charcoal ventilation system. I'll post the section I'm in. I looked at it last night and just left my book open on my desk. This is a good discussion though, and a worthwhile topic to hash out.

KiLLeR2001 · 07-26-2011, 12:55 PM

Maybe the S14 is different. I'm talking about the S13... lol

s14unimog · 07-26-2011, 12:58 PM

well shit man, you're muddying the water; lol. Surely they're the same.

KiLLeR2001 · 07-26-2011, 01:11 PM

Here's the page from the S13 FSM...

As you can clearly see, illustration #1 (gas cap) only allows vacuum. And illustration #2 (fuel check valve) shows vacuum and pressure arrows. Black displays pressure and white displays vacuum.

s14unimog · 07-26-2011, 01:18 PM

Well that's official, they are different. B/C it clearly states that it is both vacuum and pressure rated in the S14 FSM. I'll post a picture tonight.

KiLLeR2001 · 07-26-2011, 01:27 PM

I see, for the S14 go here...

http://www.240edge.com/manuals/95_240sx/ec.pdf

Scroll down to page 19. It appears the S14 gas cap is two-way. So essentially you could eliminate the check valve, but I would think it would be more smooth of an operation if the gas cap sucks in air and the check valve releases air.

s14unimog · 07-26-2011, 02:10 PM

^ Ya, I've got the digital format on my home computer. But ya, I think you are correct. The only issue is that that check valve (the one I think you are referring to) is located in the engine bay and usually gets tossed along with the vacuum assembly at the motor. I haven't looked under the car but I assume the next one in line is actually internal on that canister.

EDIT: you know what, the FSM I have is actually for a 97' (mine is a 96') and they are actually different between the two (more likely OBDI & OBDII). I will post the assembly my book shows but you bring up a good point, I bet the "fuel check valve" or "vacuum check valve" (as its called in the 97 FSM) would be more reliable to handle positive pressure release.

2nd Edit: Here are those pictures. It seems as though they both have that check valve on the tank ventilation line, although their assemblies are slightly different. So retaining that and having an operational fuel cap with confirmed vacuum operation should allow you to delete that canister and the "3rd hard line." Anyone have any objections?

jr_ss · 07-26-2011, 04:17 PM

Throw that 3rd hardline in the trash, mine is on it's way...

Options13 · 08-31-2013, 11:24 PM

sooo... can you delete this hardline or not?

codyace · 09-01-2013, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Options13

sooo... can you delete this hardline or not?

Yes you can.

07-11-2011, 01:43 PM	#3
s14unimog Nissanaholic! Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: In a place, near a river, over a lake Age: 34 Posts: 2,415 Trader Rating: (22) Rides Gallery: s14unimog Feedback Score: 22 reviews	Are the additional coils you mentioned to protect from over flow slosh with a full tank? Does is also involve the canister located in the passenger side rear fender well? There are number of vacuum lines going to this but I haven't looked closely at it. What is strange is that this topic seems untouched within the Zilvia archives __________________ Fuking ginger bread man stole my wallet... SHIFT*lock_slide to side d3m3rs0n: if i have a baby im naming it Brandons Fault Emerson

07-15-2011, 12:29 PM	#4
s14unimog Nissanaholic! Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: In a place, near a river, over a lake Age: 34 Posts: 2,415 Trader Rating: (22) Rides Gallery: s14unimog Feedback Score: 22 reviews	Bump to the top... Anyone other experiences? __________________ Fuking ginger bread man stole my wallet... SHIFT*lock_slide to side d3m3rs0n: if i have a baby im naming it Brandons Fault Emerson

07-15-2011, 03:23 PM	#5
KiLLeR2001 Post Whore! Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: オーランドフロリダ Posts: 7,955 Trader Rating: (46) Feedback Score: 46 reviews	Not sure if I would leave it fully open. On the s13 there is a 2-way valve in-line with the ventilation line. When gas leaves the tank this valve sucks in air (as well as the gas gap). And most importantly, when pressure is too great it'll release vapors out of the ventilation line. I would think if you just let it open, gas would evaporate quicker and you will have to fill up more frequently. Not to mention if your tank is metal and moisture enters, rust will form. S13: http://www.courtesyparts.com/17330-v...4-p-65084.html S14: http://www.courtesyparts.com/17370-v...-p-185107.html __________________

07-18-2011, 01:16 PM	#6
s14unimog Nissanaholic! Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: In a place, near a river, over a lake Age: 34 Posts: 2,415 Trader Rating: (22) Rides Gallery: s14unimog Feedback Score: 22 reviews	Thanks for the links, I wonder where they're mounted on the chassis; I'll have to get under there and look. As for the tank, it's an OEM unit so that's plastic. __________________ Fuking ginger bread man stole my wallet... SHIFT*lock_slide to side d3m3rs0n: if i have a baby im naming it Brandons Fault Emerson

07-19-2011, 11:05 PM	#8
codyace Post Whore! Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Poconos, PA Age: 36 Posts: 8,030 Trader Rating: (58) Feedback Score: 58 reviews	I use the line to house wires for the meth pump and 2nd fuel pump. Don't even worry about it. Tank still holds pressure as it releases when I fill it up. __________________ *Want Air Conditioning in your SR20 Swapped car? Check out www.sr20acbrackets.com for more information! Quest Alternator Conversions for SR20!* Check my Group Buy! Tired of lousy internal gates? Go external wastegate with one of my manifolds, Check out my group buy

07-10-2011, 10:12 AM	#1
s14unimog Nissanaholic! Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: In a place, near a river, over a lake Age: 34 Posts: 2,415 Trader Rating: (22) Rides Gallery: s14unimog Feedback Score: 22 reviews	s14 factory fuel tank ventilation - the 3rd hard line So I'm in the process of putting my car back together and would like to clean up the fuel lines as they enter the engine bay. Originally there are 3 hard lines (feed, return, ventilation), my question pertains to that vent line. For years I've run with that line just left open to atmosphere and never had any issues with my tank, fuel pressure, gassy smells, etc... so I assumed it hasn't been hurtful to the operation of the tank ventilation. So my question is what exactly does that hard line do for the tank? If I can recall, I wanted to say it was supposed to be for ventilating fuel smell into a canister to suppress the odor but most of my OEM stuff is long gone and I don't have any fuel odors . Does anyone have any experience with the OEM tank assembly/functionality that could shed some light on what you should/shouldn't do in respect to ventilation? Thanks! __________________ Fuking ginger bread man stole my wallet... SHIFT*lock_slide to side d3m3rs0n: if i have a baby im naming it Brandons Fault Emerson

07-10-2011, 03:48 PM	#2
mushmonster Leaky Injector Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: PalmCoast, FL Posts: 52 Trader Rating: (4) Feedback Score: 4 reviews	that line does indeed go to the charcoal canister and its to collect fuel vapor. you can cut it all the way back to the tank add a rubber hose coiled 2 or 3 times and mount it high above the tank. correct me if im wrong zilvia, I was going to keep it this way untill i install a fuel cell. I know that some fuel cells have one or more breathers with a roll over valve.

07-19-2011, 11:56 AM	#7
92lt1 Join Date: May 2011 Location: virginia Age: 34 Posts: 31 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	i would like to know as well, i just did a small block chevy swap and right now just have the line open in the engine bay

07-20-2011, 11:20 AM	#9
s14unimog Nissanaholic! Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: In a place, near a river, over a lake Age: 34 Posts: 2,415 Trader Rating: (22) Rides Gallery: s14unimog Feedback Score: 22 reviews	^ I'm not exactly "worried" about it but rather looking at how its placement/routing plays a roll in the tank's operation. Once I get done with my tubs I'll really dissect it but I was hoping others have dealt with this and can shed some light on it. I don't like unnecessary parts on the car. __________________ Fuking ginger bread man stole my wallet... SHIFT*lock_slide to side d3m3rs0n: if i have a baby im naming it Brandons Fault Emerson

07-20-2011, 02:53 PM	#10
codyace Post Whore! Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Poconos, PA Age: 36 Posts: 8,030 Trader Rating: (58) Feedback Score: 58 reviews	It comes out of the rear vent deal in the back passenger corner of our cars I'm almost positive, as above I simply cut it, and then ran my wires through it to help protect them...it was a mofugga to get them through but it did work. __________________ *Want Air Conditioning in your SR20 Swapped car? Check out www.sr20acbrackets.com for more information! Quest Alternator Conversions for SR20!* Check my Group Buy! Tired of lousy internal gates? Go external wastegate with one of my manifolds, Check out my group buy

07-21-2011, 01:03 PM	#13
s14unimog Nissanaholic! Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: In a place, near a river, over a lake Age: 34 Posts: 2,415 Trader Rating: (22) Rides Gallery: s14unimog Feedback Score: 22 reviews	So it does run into that canister in the back passenger side corner? Once I get the car back at the house this weekend, I'm going to crawl under there and get it sorted. Silicone lube can really help in a tight spot. __________________ Fuking ginger bread man stole my wallet... SHIFT*lock_slide to side d3m3rs0n: if i have a baby im naming it Brandons Fault Emerson

07-21-2011, 01:23 PM	#14
codyace Post Whore! Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Poconos, PA Age: 36 Posts: 8,030 Trader Rating: (58) Feedback Score: 58 reviews	Offtopic: We use this stuff called SuperLube at the shop, really works well. __________________ *Want Air Conditioning in your SR20 Swapped car? Check out www.sr20acbrackets.com for more information! Quest Alternator Conversions for SR20!* Check my Group Buy! Tired of lousy internal gates? Go external wastegate with one of my manifolds, Check out my group buy

07-23-2011, 08:56 AM	#16
s14unimog Nissanaholic! Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: In a place, near a river, over a lake Age: 34 Posts: 2,415 Trader Rating: (22) Rides Gallery: s14unimog Feedback Score: 22 reviews	Okay, Silicone lube covered.... Let's try and stay on topic. I brought my car back from the shop last night so I'll finally get a chance to get back under it. __________________ Fuking ginger bread man stole my wallet... SHIFT*lock_slide to side d3m3rs0n: if i have a baby im naming it Brandons Fault Emerson

07-24-2011, 11:20 AM	#18
s14unimog Nissanaholic! Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: In a place, near a river, over a lake Age: 34 Posts: 2,415 Trader Rating: (22) Rides Gallery: s14unimog Feedback Score: 22 reviews	^same here, I just got my tubs finished but had to do it up at my work; for the welding equipment. Now that I've got it back at the house i've got to get the bay stripped for painting; I might as well ditch that line if I'm not using it. I'll let ya know what I figure out. __________________ Fuking ginger bread man stole my wallet... SHIFT*lock_slide to side d3m3rs0n: if i have a baby im naming it Brandons Fault Emerson

07-26-2011, 07:23 AM	#19
s14unimog Nissanaholic! Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: In a place, near a river, over a lake Age: 34 Posts: 2,415 Trader Rating: (22) Rides Gallery: s14unimog Feedback Score: 22 reviews	just to update, I finally found some information in my 240SX FSM in the extensive trouble shooting section. I will post pictures of the page referencing the charcoal canister but that little box in the back is only there to help eliminate fumes emitted from the tank. That vacuum line (or third hard line in the engine bay) is what facilitates the vacuum to draw fumes into the canister; it actually runs through a check valve to prevent un-metered air from entering the engine. Actually there are provisions for checking its operation, as well as the fuel cap. It does seem tho, that you can eliminate that entire assembly as the fuel cap (If an OEM unit) is pressure and vacuum rated; so the fuel cap should prevent any excessive build up of pressure or negative pressure in the tank; plus the tank has a separate overflow line to the filler neck. I will trace the lines out on my car and clarify Nissan's wording a little. __________________ Fuking ginger bread man stole my wallet... SHIFT*lock_slide to side d3m3rs0n: if i have a baby im naming it Brandons Fault Emerson

07-26-2011, 12:53 PM	#21
s14unimog Nissanaholic! Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: In a place, near a river, over a lake Age: 34 Posts: 2,415 Trader Rating: (22) Rides Gallery: s14unimog Feedback Score: 22 reviews	I'll show you the excerpt I'm referencing from the FSM trouble shooting guide but it clearly says that it is both vacuum and pressure rated, no lie. My first notion was that it can't be as we're all very familiar with the pressure release when unscrewing the cap but I assure you its clearly stated in the FSM; that's why I said I wanted to test mine and it has to be an OEM unit. Also note, there are multiple check valves related to this charcoal ventilation system. I'll post the section I'm in. I looked at it last night and just left my book open on my desk. This is a good discussion though, and a worthwhile topic to hash out. __________________ Fuking ginger bread man stole my wallet... SHIFT*lock_slide to side d3m3rs0n: if i have a baby im naming it Brandons Fault Emerson

07-26-2011, 12:55 PM	#22
KiLLeR2001 Post Whore! Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: オーランドフロリダ Posts: 7,955 Trader Rating: (46) Feedback Score: 46 reviews	Maybe the S14 is different. I'm talking about the S13... lol __________________

07-26-2011, 12:58 PM	#23
s14unimog Nissanaholic! Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: In a place, near a river, over a lake Age: 34 Posts: 2,415 Trader Rating: (22) Rides Gallery: s14unimog Feedback Score: 22 reviews	well shit man, you're muddying the water; lol. Surely they're the same. __________________ Fuking ginger bread man stole my wallet... SHIFT*lock_slide to side d3m3rs0n: if i have a baby im naming it Brandons Fault Emerson

07-26-2011, 01:11 PM	#24
KiLLeR2001 Post Whore! Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: オーランドフロリダ Posts: 7,955 Trader Rating: (46) Feedback Score: 46 reviews	Here's the page from the S13 FSM... As you can clearly see, illustration #1 (gas cap) only allows vacuum. And illustration #2 (fuel check valve) shows vacuum and pressure arrows. Black displays pressure and white displays vacuum. __________________

07-26-2011, 01:18 PM	#25
s14unimog Nissanaholic! Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: In a place, near a river, over a lake Age: 34 Posts: 2,415 Trader Rating: (22) Rides Gallery: s14unimog Feedback Score: 22 reviews	Well that's official, they are different. B/C it clearly states that it is both vacuum and pressure rated in the S14 FSM. I'll post a picture tonight. __________________ Fuking ginger bread man stole my wallet... SHIFT*lock_slide to side d3m3rs0n: if i have a baby im naming it Brandons Fault Emerson

07-26-2011, 01:27 PM	#26
KiLLeR2001 Post Whore! Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: オーランドフロリダ Posts: 7,955 Trader Rating: (46) Feedback Score: 46 reviews	I see, for the S14 go here... http://www.240edge.com/manuals/95_240sx/ec.pdf Scroll down to page 19. It appears the S14 gas cap is two-way. So essentially you could eliminate the check valve, but I would think it would be more smooth of an operation if the gas cap sucks in air and the check valve releases air. __________________

07-26-2011, 02:10 PM	#27
s14unimog Nissanaholic! Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: In a place, near a river, over a lake Age: 34 Posts: 2,415 Trader Rating: (22) Rides Gallery: s14unimog Feedback Score: 22 reviews	^ Ya, I've got the digital format on my home computer. But ya, I think you are correct. The only issue is that that check valve (the one I think you are referring to) is located in the engine bay and usually gets tossed along with the vacuum assembly at the motor. I haven't looked under the car but I assume the next one in line is actually internal on that canister. EDIT: you know what, the FSM I have is actually for a 97' (mine is a 96') and they are actually different between the two (more likely OBDI & OBDII). I will post the assembly my book shows but you bring up a good point, I bet the "fuel check valve" or "vacuum check valve" (as its called in the 97 FSM) would be more reliable to handle positive pressure release. 2nd Edit: Here are those pictures. It seems as though they both have that check valve on the tank ventilation line, although their assemblies are slightly different. So retaining that and having an operational fuel cap with confirmed vacuum operation should allow you to delete that canister and the "3rd hard line." Anyone have any objections? __________________ Fuking ginger bread man stole my wallet... SHIFTlock_slide to side d3m3rs0n: if i have a baby im naming it Brandons Fault Emerson Last edited by s14unimog; 07-26-2011 at 05:37 PM..*

07-26-2011, 04:17 PM	#28
jr_ss Post Whore! Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Pa Posts: 6,052 Trader Rating: (34) Feedback Score: 34 reviews	Throw that 3rd hardline in the trash, mine is on it's way... __________________ My SR20VET

08-31-2013, 11:24 PM	#29
Options13 Nissanaholic! Join Date: May 2007 Location: OR Posts: 1,825 Trader Rating: (43) Feedback Score: 43 reviews	sooo... can you delete this hardline or not? __________________ Drift team page www.facebook.com/savageimpression

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