RalliartRsX

EFR 6258 on a Stock S13/S14 SR20DET Exhaust Manifold

Things to note before starting
1) Banjo bolts are important
2) EFR 6258, 6758 and 7163, T25 option are all externally dimensionally the same.
3) No grinding of the block necessary (which is why I included a photo of the clearance to the bellhousing/block. Plenty of room!)

I luckily scored a free S13 SR20DET manifold and decided to go to work. In addition, I also picked up some banjo bolts from Kinugawa (14x1.5 to -6AN) as we all know the 14x1.5 to -6AN on the block WONT fit with the bottom mount stock manifold.

Long story short, IT FITS! In addition, the overall fitment was improved overall. This includes

1) Running a 300ZX BMC and stock hardlines, the manifold and turbo combo was much more easily maneuvered into the tight confines between the engine and engine mount
2) The v-band outlet clearance to the gearbox/engine block was much improved and clearance was increased about 0.5 inches
3) Stock heatshield can easily be clearanced to fit


This made for removing and reinstalling the manifold a breeze! I did run into two minor issues, but they are easily quelled

1) You CAN reused the stock T25/T28 turbo oil drain, but you will need a spacer as it hits the compressor housing (just use a different fitting. $10 for a proper barbed fitting)
2) Its a tight fit for the coolant lines (but that comes with a bottom mount turbo). Fix: Banjo bolt on the block fitting. But you can easily make your own lines (I did this for all of $40 in parts, a vise and a few hand tools. Took me 20 mins total. I think the bottom mount standard SR lines may fit as well)

Anyways, here are pics. It actually overall fits BETTER than my prior manifold.

So in essence, if anyone wants to use a stock location manifold, just use a proper banjo bolt on the block and you are good to go!

I also decided to make new lines, so hopefully will have it back together in the net day or so!























Turbo Fitment and Compressor Inlet/Outlet

Parts: EFR turbo, 2.5” Silicone Tubing
Issue: As compared to the Garret series (the ones that bolt up to the SR), the EFR comes with a flanged/machined compressor inlet/outlet. That means the stock adapters won’t fit (unless you want to chop them up………)

Solution: I was reluctant to buy any more pieces to get the turbo on, and decided to use what I had. I simply grabbed a 2.5” 180 degree silicone coupler I had, chopped it in half at the middle of the 180 degree bend, and installed it on the compressor inlet. However, it was still too long, and the inlet was a bit too close for comfort, to the power steering pump/line. I just simply kept slicing more and more off until it fit as I would like .
You can do a few things for the compressor outlet. 1) Just grab the proper 2” to whatever piping size you have on there currently (45 degree reducer coupler) and 2) Do what I did and just cut up some 90 degree aluminum piping, add in a few couplers, and make your own outlet pipe. This is a temp fix as I wait for the coupler to arrive ($28 dollars for a few inches of silicone coupler is ridiculous!! That’s what you get when you have to procure a scarcely made part……………….).

After taking measurements, you could probably reuse the stock bottom mount piping as the dimensions are nearly the same

Below is the comparison pictures of the difference betweem the OEM outlet and just a regular ol' hacked up Silicone coupler (the coupler has since been trimmed a few more mm since this picture was taken)




Below is a picture of the clearance of the inlet pipe to the Power Steering Pump and the associated line and bango bolt.




5) Coolant Fittings

Parts: EFR and Coolant lines that were received with the turbo
Issue: Simply put: the turbo lines I received just simply were not going to work! No matter how I routed the lines, they were either
1) Too close to the manifold
2) Too long
3) Wrong angle
4) Just simply did not damn fit!
This was hands down, one of my BIGGEST issue which could have been remedied by simply taking a step back, and figuring out in full, what else I would need to get this installed. Basically, my original game plan was not sufficient enough to account for fitment issues of lines (which I never thought would have been an issue!!!). It took me literally 2 days to try and fit these lines, as I had to remove the turbo on several occasions. I finally decided to hack up my current lines to make it work...........

Simply put. My dumbass mistake! I have decided to order a few new AN fittings and Banjo bolts to sort this out.
Also:
1) I capped off my coolant line behind the block with a 5/16" to 1/8" Male fitting and a 1/8" NPT cap. Hasn't leaked yet......
2) Used S14/S15 water neck
3) I will be getting a 90 degree swivel fitting, routing it between the turbo and Manifold.

Solution: Make my own damn lines and NOT have it routed as seen in the pics!

Behind the block Coolant cap





6) Turbo Fitment and Exhuast

Parts: Custom 3” V Band exhaust
Issue: As compared to the Garret series (the ones that bolt up to the SR), the EFR comes with a 3” Half Marmon Turbine outlet. This means, no T2 stock replacement turbo is going to work on this unless you do some fab work .

Solution: I was lucky enough to receive a downpipe with my purchase, so all I have to do is mount it up, take it to the shop to have them cut and fit the downpipe correctly, and I am good to go. You will have to figure out what you prefer to do. Below is a picture of the manifold itself.




Conclusion: Was it worth it?? Hell YAAAAAAA!!


Good Day!

slider2828

This does look really cool. Pictures 7-10 look really close. Even to the engine mount....

Is that going to get heat issues? Probably street setup ok, but track setup, not sure if this would work... I dunno hard to say....

Great attempt at it, can't wait to see it all come together

__________________
Turn and Burn!

RalliartRsX

1) Engine mount (stock type) was sectioned additionally after the pics were taken to accommodate. The oil drain ended up banging against it every time the engine torqued and eventually failed. Luckily no damage was done and it only smoked all the way home lol

2) No heat issues as I was very gratuitous with heat shielding

3) This setup saw 8 track days last year. One of those trackdays was in 100+ degree weather for all 4 sessions (the cockpit temp was hovering over 105 the entire day). You just have to be smart with heat shielding. I never bother posting about this as I leave it up to whoever puts this together to figure out. I can't hold everyone's hands now

4) As mentioned, its been together and running for 1.5 years. I have since recently swapped to a top mount EFR 6758 with the first ever Future Fab manifold. I was essentially the test subject and got it put together over winter. First street tune was last night actually. However, since I moved away from this setup, I decided to post to help a few folks out

slider2828

Oh that is nice. I think top mount is probably the way to go. I dunno about the heat, but I had 7 layer silicone couplings on my GT2871R with that stock metal heat shielding. I melted it in one day.

I guess depends how hard the car is running cause we have a lot of elevation changes here in California on the track, so a lot of up hills.

Yeah I would heat shield more stuff on this setup, but these are progress pictures.... Do you have a dyno chart of the last setup?

I am just interested in the torque curve and gains.

Awesome setup though.

__________________
Turn and Burn!

RalliartRsX

Dyno plots for the EFr tell about 15% of the story of the EFR.............

These things are all about response and boost threshold. There is nothing between shifts and it just feels like a big engine. Nothing else I have had in the past (T25, T28, GT2560R, S15 T28, GT2871R, Precision 5858 and T3/T04E. All these turbos were on a SR20DE(T) and SR20DET) compares to this! It is absolutely unreal. 50% throttle in 5th I can make 3-4 psi boost at 1750 RPM. It just pulls and this cannot be shown on a dyno. I do not think I will ever be moving away from the EFR series turbos any time soon (I am on the second one, and have gone one size up to boot. Hasn't lost any spool but with headroom for around 450WHP).

I do have VD charts, but since going to SD, I am realizing the tune was not optimized on my MAF setup. But again, the dyno only shows 10% of the picture, it does NOT represent real world performance and this thing blows everything else out the water IMHO.

I am a little miffed no one else has made a comment on this. It pretty much answers 95% of the question people have and dispells the notion that the B1 frame EFRs will not fit on a stock manifold. After 8 track days, one in brutal 100+ degree heat and with very very minor problems, none of which left me stranded, I am surprised there is not more comments and action on this from Zilvia

Frank_Jaeger

Would this kind of turbo be better than a gt2871r for a modest power goal of 300-350whp?

RalliartRsX

Hands down abso-freaking-lutely! The GT2871 is a dinosaur of a turbo. It works, yes, but when compared to a EFR, no chance. Apple to oranges.

slider2828

Yeah I agree with Ralliart. I am running a GT2871R and not GTX, but the cost of EFR turbos are pretty crazy. Its about 30% more price for the performance and potential issues with fitment makes it quite expensive.

But I disagree about the dyno plot because you can see when the torque builds as well as peak torque levels as well as HP levels. So I think the dyno tells a lot about the turbo.

__________________
Turn and Burn!

spooled240

Awesome write up. I eventually want to get an efr my ka and this is really helpful.

RalliartRsX

When you factor in the fact you do not need a BOV or a wastegate and the cost difference is minimal (think 200 for a proper used Tial, and 200 for a proper used Tial BOV or you can cheap out with a 150 Greddy, whatever) and in addition, the ease of packaging. I see, if compared to the standard bottom mount T2 based Garrett, sure, the EFR seems "unreasonable". However, no T2 Garrett is the in the same league as the EFR in terms of boost boost threshold and Lag characteristics. Yes, the GTX will make power, but that's it. It's a billet compressor wheel with a more aggressive profile. The key to a turbo is the turbine wheel (which has remained unchanged), so for the same psi on a GTX you make more power than just a regular GT.

On my current top mount, equal length manifold, 6758: 200 ft lbs (ATW) is made from 3400 and its a solid 250 ft lbs flat from 4,200 all the way to 7,000RPM. That is where I have my current rev limit for trackdays due to preferring longevity. This was on a street tune with only A/F being addressed. No timing, no E85, etc. Straight Shell V-power 93 Octane pump. This was done on 13 psi of boost and ramping up to 15 psi from 6,000 RPM to redline. WHP was in 309-312 range. This thing doesn't really start to rock until 15-18 psi of boost. Easy 450 WHP on Pump with this turbo!

And I stand by my earlier statement: A dyno plot is not a consistent way to truly measure (and I want to emphasis this) REAL WORLD turbo performance. Think, a dynapack vs an inertial or mainline dyno will show 3 distinctly different torque characteristic, hence why I made the statement. Yes, several dyno settings can be adjusted to account for this.

A perfect example of real word performance a dyno does not portray, is a 3-4 shift and how long from throttle close to throttle open for the turbo to recover back to full boost. When you are getting into race teams, they do several gear and load pulls. Not many people do that around here. Hence, my statement. A 3 gear pull paints about 10% of real world performance. I had this issue when on MAF and a 3rd gear pull would have 0.2-0.3 A/F ratio difference from a 4th gear pull (same pull, just a 3-4 shift) although it was in the same part of the MAP for RPM and MAF load.

RalliartRsX

The EFR's compressor housing is too big to fit between the block and the engine mount if going with a stock location SR-KA manifold.

slider2828

But for dyno read out, there has to be a few assumptions in order to compare them. Assumptions would be similar final drive, similar gear ratio, roughly same ambient temp, and similar dyno tuning.

But technically if the change is so dramatic, I think it will be noticeable to compare it to a 2871r.... Just depends what level of accuracy that we are looking for.

Trust me I get all my tuning on load based dyno. I don't just don't like the hit or miss style of tuning on interia based dynos much less non drive line dynos....

__________________
Turn and Burn!

spooled240

Damn. Did you or someone else try this already? I've seen guys modify bottom mount manifolds to fit a t3/t4 under there without any issues

Stein180sx

Now only if you were willing to test this for an RB25det. I've been thinking about this kind of setup for my motor when I am done with the stocker.

DRFT180

I tried it almost 2 years ago. the compressor cover hits the block before you can get the manifold bolted to the head.

I went top mount with a custom DOC Race manifold (T2 flange and no wastegate port) to fit my EFR 6758.

__________________

S14 Build