4x4le

Ok, so just because you cant understand what I have said its not fact? 4 sentences from Garret is easier for you to understand I guess.

They are laying down blanket information. Something that will work no matter what. Something they could get out in 4 sentences. They make turbos, not ecus, not tuning, they make turbos and rely on the manufacturers of cars to make the car work with the turbo. They watched what car companies that use mafs commonly do and just repeated it.

Your saying I havent done extensive research? Your discounting the amount of cars I have had my hands in. Your trying to act smarter than someone that can think for themselves just because you have followed old past practices and read a 4 sentence guide for dummies put out by garrett.

Read it. Funny you took out of context the information so you and kingtal0n could stroke each others egos.

Here is what I read
They said there are 2 things to consider. You left out the information about map based cars. If it were crucial to the turbos performance or life they would have mentioned under map cars that it needs to be put close to the compressor outlet as well, but they didnt.

Now under the maf based cars it was mentioned that it needed to be as close to the compressor outlet as possible. The reason for this is because the turbo outlet is close to the compressor inlet right? The shorter the distance for recirculation the better, if your going to be recirculating, otherwise its a waste to even bother recirculating.
As a matter of fact my first post in this thread mentions this point and you try to come back this much later to use a point I made (while thinking for myself) quoting something from garrett in order to somehow tell me Im wrong? Your going to have to step your game up if you want to argue with me.
Wait, you also said the same thing earlier on, and gave the exact same reason. And that was not disputed
What you and garret are not taking into consideration is there is more than 1 type of ecu, and more than 1 method of tuning. If you are able to tell the ecu that when the throttle is shutting fast or shut, no fuel is needed over X rpm then recirculating is more of a determent to your turbo system than a benefit. Some people dont know how to tune or their ecu is not capable of it so they recirc (no huge deal).


Nope, and your IQ is lower than I predicted if you think a moot point that was intentionally taken out of context that I actually originally brought up in my first post is somehow going to prove me wrong.

Yea tell me more about how you add the word molecules to the end of very normal words in order to sound smart. I will drink a glass water molecules in case I get thirsty while you do so.

Bull. Lets break this down. If you were to run no bov and monitor pressure in your cold pipe when the throttle snaps shut you would see a spike in pressure for a second or 2. With a bov, mounted anywhere you please, lets just put it on the hot pipe, you will see pressure drop instantly.
That pressure, that air IS REVERSING. It is going somewhere else, which is to your bov. Without your bov, even though your engine is consuming some air the pressure will spike, which goes to show that it isnt consuming ENOUGH air for your point to be valid.

Lets break this down. First you quote "reversing" like it is just a theory. Well its a fact. If your going to use scientific terms such as molecules and kinetic energy why dont you gain some knowledge about physics before you try to disprove everything there ever ever was about fluid dynamics.

If that pressure isnt going somewhere, the bov isnt doing its job, but if it is going somewhere the air is reversing. If the air is reversing, then its reversing. You say SIGNIFICANT reversing, if that air so much as stops flowing or goes back in the other direction then you are making it harder on your turbo to do its job, your inducing lag in throttle response by now not only having to re pressurize the pipes (which you would have to do anyways) but you have air slamming into each other in different directions making this process slower while creating turbulence which is also counter productive to flow characteristics.

4x4le

my response took too long. Seems like we had the same thing in mind about destroying scientific fact with failed hypothesis that came 20 years too late.

KiLLeR2001

I think you need to re-read the first post of this thread. It was about which side is best for a blacktop SR20DET which I'm sure you are aware is a MAFS-based system. Thus why the hot side is better.

Now if you want to argue whats best for MAP-based systems then go right ahead, I could care less and you would only be preaching to 10% of the population on here. You're better off making a new thread though.

Here's my advice to you:

- Stop wasting your time.
- Stop insulting others intelligence.
- Get off your high horse.

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Kingtal0n

I can read, and it does *not* say that. And if it does, I am sorry, but please quote where it does?

I Just don't see it.

Kingtal0n

Thank you! Regardless of what he wants to say, it can be SAID without degrading others intellect!
There is NO REASON to Insult someone while trying to make a point if you have a valid discussion.
Unprofessional, Childish.

CeezS13

I'm running a MAF based set up on my black top, I set the BOV close to my Throttle body and it dips low sometimes and when I let off throttle it feels like it wants to die then comes back to perfect idle, so the cold side isn't working for me. gonna relocate it to the hot side and see where it goes from there.

4x4le

hot only works better IF your recirculating for the reason of shorter recirc pipe. if running a longer pipe across your engine or if your turbo inlet and maf are somewhat close to your cold pipe then cold side is fine there.

Also as I have mentioned, for flow characteristics regardless of it being maf or map cold side is better. With maf there are things you can do with tuning so the maf is not effected by the wasted unmetered air.

I cannot help it that it hurts your feelings that I point out that your wrong and that you have no clue how to use the scientific terms your using properly.

You can either do some more tuning to make it not care about the maf reading on a quick shut of the throttle body, or you can recirculate. Recirculating will help and may mean to put it on the hotpipe, but the hotpipe by itself is not the answer and will not help.

GhostlyCoupe

It's probably worth noting that the guys at Nissan are pretty smart fellas and placed the valve at a certain location from the factory.

End thread.

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4x4le

On different nissans its placed on different sides. Where ever they had room or it was easier for them to recirc it or cheaper or easier for assembly. If you would have read any of this thread you would see that was mentioned.

Its sad you even bring up this point, are people so incapable of thinking for themselves anymore? Is it just ok for you to assume others are smarter than you so to do it the way they did it?

If nissan did everything right we wouldnt bother modifying the cars they made. You have to keep in mine all of the agendas they have, not everything they did was performance based.

And there is no reason to end the thread. Members are having intelligent conversation which is what forums are for. No rules are being broken.
Every point that anyone can think of bringing up about bov location being best on hot pipe can be shot down by me with a scientific approach with the exception of: recirculating makes it easier to pipe, and if there is no room on the cold pipe.

Its very sad that it seems that the majority of the members are unable to comprehend the physics behind it, but just because its unpopular for me to tell the truth does not mean Im incorrect.

4x4le

And the only reason the "valve" was placed there and recirculated from the factory is because the factory "valve" is more than just a bov. It is a diverter valve or a recirc valve. It does not seal up at idle like a bov would. Under boost it is prone to leaking unlike a bov, and nissan DID NOT use a proper front mount intercooler, they used a tiny sidemount with plastic tanks that is very prone to heatsoak so running as little hot air through it as possible is beneficial in a stock setup.

I dont know anyone using the factory plastic pipeing and plastic intercooler. Everyone I have seen in person is using larger diameter aluminum or stainless piping, larger front mount intercoolers with aluminum end tanks.
If your going to redesign that system you should look at what else you might have effected and what else may need modified due to that. Now you have allot more air your moving in the wrong direction if your bov is on the hot pipe.

NISSAN did NOT take that into account.

cotbu

These images suggested that the bpv\bov be on the cold side.
These are from the s14 and gtr r32 fsm

Sent from my Highly Tuned Vibrant!!!

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LoverTechnologies "Half Broken Things!"

4x4le

that they are.
And if I had to speculate, its because these engines are making higher hp than the s13 sr, and of a later design. So nissan learned that it was better to put them on the cold side, and they learned that with more air flow that it was of a benefit.

Not too many people waste their time swapping in a sr to just run the stock turbo, they upgrade to something more powerful than the s14/15 t28 as well.

cold side is BEST. But by all means, you other guys can do what you want with your cars. Just dont try to spread false information in order to kill everyones throttle response that may read your post.

GhostlyCoupe

I think it's even more sad that there is always someone who thinks they know better than a company that invested untold millions into designing the car exactly how they did.

Even aftermarket companies that made aftermarket bolt-on kits such as ARC no doubt have many engineers and a lot more knowledge than you do and still chose to use the hot pipe on the S-chassis.

So basically what you are saying is you know better than Nissan, ARC, and Greddy who all placed it on the hot pipe.

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Walperstyle

^Underground Racing. I've seen BOV's Cold, hot, and on a condenser.

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KA-T ORG-Function over Flush

4x4le

This goes for everyone that modifys any car. Is yours 100% stock? You do know they invested untold millions making it the way they did right? So nothing needs changed.
So, thats still not a worthwile argument. So a bunch of people do it wrong, and? Just because major companies do something does not mean its BEST, which is still what the question was.

First of all, nissan changed to the cold side later on. You fail at reading
2nd
You said that, not me. You do not know who I am, so you have no basis to say that ARC has more knowledge than me.
I have have had my car with the bov on both sides. I have had friends with bovs on both sides. I have tuned tons of cars and I have seen them on both sides. I have made my mind up based on my observations.
I can tell you that I know about this subject better than you. You hear greddy, arc, nissan and just assume they are right. Come up with a real reason that hotside is better. Explain to me how the compressor works and how the low input from the turbine during shut throttle effects the compressor. Then tell me how its better for it to be on the hot side.
Its not. I have listed countless reasons and you and others want to discount that because name brand companies do it differently in their KITS. I guess people buying kits are easy to fool anyways, otherwise they wouldnt be buying KITS.

On my own engine, I have designed a turbo system that does not exist to be purchased in a kit. I cannot wait to get it finished up to have some results on that.
On my last engine I was able to make more power than anyone else has ever been able to make with a 2871r on a sr.
I have tuned a ka24de that was well built to make more power n/a than a stock s13 sr makes.

Do not under estimate what I know or can do. You dont know me from Adam for you to think just because Im not backed by a major company that Im wrong. Also, you dont know how many contacts I actually do have with some major companies, how many other tuning shops Im in contact with constantly.

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If anyone else really wants to act as Im wrong, think for your self or at least bring some real evidence that its better for it to be on the hot side. I have made plenty of points and all anyone has been able to do so far is say other brands do X or Y. Do some physics, look at it from that point of view. Switch sides and compare results. Asking me to explain why other companies do something that I dont agree with is just a cheap way of trying to set me up. How would I know why they made a less than best decision?

BTW ARC and Greddy have both in the past filed bankruptcy and I never have. Nissan was headed in that direction and Renault merged with them saving their ass.
Maybe you should file bankruptcy it must be smart if greddy, arc and nissan........

AdamR

Still so many logical fallacies in arguments here.
I admit i was wrong about the Garrett paper. I may have thought of something else.

Either way, nobody that said the hot side is better has given any good scientific info or data to prove it.