how we build cages the right way. - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

roco · 10-03-2009, 09:23 AM

made this little write up for a irish site here. thaught you guys might like it and add to it, this is only a rough write up and there are alot of other important points in cage building, but this is some of the things people should look for when buying or geting a cage built. too many shody cages being built, this is not an advertisement just information. and the cage built below is for local competition and built to those regs.

copyd accross...........

This thread is basicaly to show that our cages are built right. using the right tools and the right method, going off homolagated FIA design.

first of all, all roll cages must be mandrell bent. our bender and tools are the industry standard in roll cage and space frame fabrication and used the world over by some of the best race teams and custom car builders. this makes sure that the bend is uniform, no ripples or kinks, and no flatening on the outside of the bend.

cages must comply to certain design regs depending on the motorsport.
and must be of a homolagated design, or go through an independant engineers assesment.

joints in the cage must be profiled joints, this means the joint must be cut or notched to fit arround the adjoining tube. no but joints of any kind are used.

we take great pride in our fabrication and our cages, and all roll cages are welded properly and welded all the way around the profiled joints. not just welded on the underside, or half moon welds.

floor plates are regulation 3mm plate, theyre made to fit each car, and welded to diffrent planes on the car, ie, floor, sill, pillar etc.

Because we bend and fab our cages in house, we make each cage to suit each indevidual car, no mass produced bad fitting cages. we build some of the tightest fitting cages bar none, our cages follow the lines and main frame of the car as close as possible, and in most cases the cage can be welded to the chassis in muliple places giving maximum driver space minimum intrusion into the cockpit and driver view. also stiffening the chassis even further.

all in all thats how all top motorsport cages are built or should be built.
like said before i take pride in my work and thats what makes the diffrence in
a good product or service or a great product or service.

below are some pictures of a cage i built this week and you will notice some of the points i made above regarding the building and fabrication. the pics of the cage are taken in raw metal so no defects in either metal or welding are hidden with paint. all bends and plates can be clearly seen.

drift213 · 10-03-2009, 09:33 AM

grat job wish you was around los angeles area ill would of have gotten one for my silvia

anotherblusi · 10-03-2009, 09:40 AM

How were you able to complete the welds on the corners of the main hoop and roof cross?

roco · 10-03-2009, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drift213

grat job wish you was around los angeles area ill would of have gotten one for my silvia

there are some amazing cage builders in LA. depends what area your in. and some of them far better than me.

@anotherbluesi; theres three diffrent ways to do this properly,

1: chop the roof off. not what alot of people want to do but it is the best way.
and usualy used for serious race cars.

2: cut small holes in the floor and drop the cage. down, this doesnt weaken the structure if done properly as most people think as you are replacing it with 6x6 3mm floor plates.

3: build steel floor boxes instead of plates, and have the top plate removable
so you can drop the cage into the box which gives you 3-4inces to play with.

either one will do but if done wrong can be worse than not welding the cage all around. the floor plates must be as strong as the cage you build.

S14_Kouki · 10-03-2009, 10:30 AM

I spy something wrong with your cage. It is very BAD to weld all that into the bend of the main hoop iv told ppl this before. When you bend the pipe it stretches the metal so it is alot weaker in the bend and should not be welded on.

TIG · 10-03-2009, 10:33 AM

Nice to see a thread on properly built cages. I have seen many cages so poorly done that I question how they passed tech. Great work.

TIG · 10-03-2009, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by S14_Kouki

I spy something wrong with your cage. It is very BAD to weld all that into the bend of the main hoop iv told ppl this before. When you bend the pipe it stretches the metal so it is alot weaker in the bend and should not be welded on.

I usually agree with most of what you say, but there's a little more to it than that. While the main hoop may be slightly weaker around the bend because the material is stretched, what he is done is actually very strong. He has created a very rigid node for load transfer. If there is force exerted upon the top roof near the B-Pillar those compressive forces will be transferred down the diagonal, down the rear down tube, across the main hoop, and into the X-Bar in the roof.

The front down tubes are usually as far out to the edge as possible to accommodate driver space. If the front down tube is further out, and the rear down tubes are further inward the node will be offset causing there to be a place for shear.

In this case it is more than material strength but the position of nodes and load transfer.

roco · 10-03-2009, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by S14_Kouki

I spy something wrong with your cage. It is very BAD to weld all that into the bend of the main hoop iv told ppl this before. When you bend the pipe it stretches the metal so it is alot weaker in the bend and should not be welded on.

ive studied pictures of roll cages from the top race car builders and fabricators in the world, from race cars, to off road baja trucks, to space frame buggys and they all do it the same way. ive studdied all regulations and have never seen this. it does make some sense i supose. but like i said ive never herd it before?
its all about load transfer.

heres a pic of a ae86 from meridian motorsport, one of the top race car builders in australia.

and a s13 from the same company,

a roll cage from impact engineering in california. also a top company

this is there 350 grand am touring car.

this is a s13 cage from nickson motorsport in the uk, one of the most respected
fabricators around, building cars for le-mans, and porche, ferarri clubs etc.

thats just a few of many.

roco · 10-03-2009, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TIG

I usually agree with most of what you say, but there's a little more to it than that. While the main hoop may be slightly weaker around the bend because the material is stretched, what he is done is actually very strong. He has created a very rigid node for load transfer. If there is force exerted upon the top roof near the B-Pillar those compressive forces will be transferred down the diagonal, down the rear down tube, across the main hoop, and into the X-Bar in the roof.

The front down tubes are usually as far out to the edge as possible to accommodate driver space. If the front down tube is further out, and the rear down tubes are further inward the node will be offset causing there to be a place for shear.

In this case it is more than material strength but the position of nodes and load transfer.

i couldnt have explained it any better.

S14_Kouki · 10-03-2009, 11:16 AM

Yes that sounds good. Im just saying what I practice. Im sure its just fine for load transfer like you all are saying but im talking about for if you crash its already weak in that spot and you should not make it more weaker by welding on it. Theres a better chance of it sheering at that spot. Here is my cage I built ps sorry for the not so great mig

TIG · 10-03-2009, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by S14_Kouki

Yes that sounds good. Im just saying what I practice. Im sure its just fine for load transfer like you all are saying but im talking about for if you crash its already weak in that spot and you should not make it more weaker by welding on it. Theres a better chance of it sheering at that spot. Here is my cage I built ps sorry for the not so great mig

The load transfer I am referring to is in the event of a crash. The problem I see with your cage is that there are 3 independent nodes. You want to have as many tubes as possible going to a single node. The design you have actually has a much greater chance of shearing than the work posted by roco. The reason why you want to have the tubes going to a single node versus spread out is as I said stated earlier, load transfer. With three separate nodes the forces are not as spread out in the event of an impact. Instead they are pinpointed to where they are welded thus relying on material strength since the force be applied is not being dissipated over many tubes. Whereas, with a single node holding three tubes the impact forces are now spread across a much greater area, this lessens the forces applied.

To think of it in much more simplified terms, think of snow shoes. Snow shoes have quite a large area to displace the force applied (in this case the force exerted by gravity on the human body). This allows a person to walk on top of the snow because the forces are spread across a much greater area versus walking in regular shoes with a much smaller contact area.

Yes, the material is slightly weaker through the bend. However this is less of an issue with a single node holding several tubes because the forces will be distributed across those several tubes. Therefore, the force exerted on the bend will be less than that of three separate forces at three separate nodes that have nowhere to dissipate to.

As far as weakening an already "weakened" tube by welding on it, the same load principles apply. In roll cage design there are many load dimensions to account for, weld strength, material strength, and load transfer. A single node will rely on load transfer more than material strength in this case. Load transfer is by far the strongest method.

S14_Kouki, don't take this as a critique to you by any means. That is not my intention at all. This is more towards the general reading audience as some points of education.

S14_Kouki · 10-03-2009, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TIG

The load transfer I am referring to is in the event of a crash. The problem I see with your cage is that there are 3 independent nodes. You want to have as many tubes as possible going to a single node. The design you have actually has a much greater chance of shearing than the work posted by roco. The reason why you want to have the tubes going to a single node versus spread out is as I said stated earlier, load transfer. With three separate nodes the forces are not as spread out in the event of an impact. Instead they are pinpointed to where they are welded thus relying on material strength since the force be applied is not being dissipated over many tubes. Whereas, with a single node holding three tubes the impact forces are now spread across a much greater area, this lessens the forces applied.

To think of it in much more simplified terms, think of snow shoes. Snow shoes have quite a large area to displace the force applied (in this case the force exerted by gravity on the human body). This allows a person to walk on top of the snow because the forces are spread across a much greater area versus walking in regular shoes with a much smaller contact area.

Yes, the material is slightly weaker through the bend. However this is less of an issue with a single node holding several tubes because the forces will be distributed across those several tubes. Therefore, the force exerted on the bend will be less than that of three separate forces at three separate nodes that have nowhere to dissipate to.

As far as weakening an already "weakened" tube by welding on it, the same load principles apply. In roll cage design there are many load dimensions to account for, weld strength, material strength, and load transfer. A single node will rely on load transfer more than material strength in this case. Load transfer is by far the strongest method.

S14_Kouki, don't take this as a critique to you by any means. That is not my intention at all. This is more towards the general reading audience as some points of education.

Yeah im not taking it in a bad way at all. I learded something new that will help me with my work in the future. I always thought of it in a different way. I figured that since I have three different points of contact that would spread the load transfer out greater. But now the truth as been told and its just more I know now thank you TIG and yes your cage is really nice roco dont get me wrong.

mdcrose · 10-03-2009, 01:07 PM

OP, nice looking cage!

I totally agree with you about striving to have the support members joiningg at as few nodes as possible. This will cause the forces on those support members to resolve into tension and compresses rather than shear. Also the outside of the tube is where the majority of the stretching takes place.

Howard92884 · 10-03-2009, 01:23 PM

Fawking beautiful.

96Turbo · 10-03-2009, 01:33 PM

great cages, and good discussion on the load nodes. definitely learned something

can't wait till i need a cage!!!

fcdrifter20 · 10-03-2009, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 96Turbo

great cages, and good discussion on the load nodes. definitely learned something

can't wait till i need a cage!!!

i have to agree. i thot the same as s14 kouki about the load tranfer at indpendent points. never thot it would tranfer load bettr if u combine them on one common location. thnx to roco and tig for teaching us all something new, and expaining it so clearly.

*burnsauto* · 10-03-2009, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TIG

The load transfer I am referring to is in the event of a crash. The problem I see with your cage is that there are 3 independent nodes. You want to have as many tubes as possible going to a single node. The design you have actually has a much greater chance of shearing than the work posted by roco. The reason why you want to have the tubes going to a single node versus spread out is as I said stated earlier, load transfer. With three separate nodes the forces are not as spread out in the event of an impact. Instead they are pinpointed to where they are welded thus relying on material strength since the force be applied is not being dissipated over many tubes. Whereas, with a single node holding three tubes the impact forces are now spread across a much greater area, this lessens the forces applied.

To think of it in much more simplified terms, think of snow shoes. Snow shoes have quite a large area to displace the force applied (in this case the force exerted by gravity on the human body). This allows a person to walk on top of the snow because the forces are spread across a much greater area versus walking in regular shoes with a much smaller contact area.

Yes, the material is slightly weaker through the bend. However this is less of an issue with a single node holding several tubes because the forces will be distributed across those several tubes. Therefore, the force exerted on the bend will be less than that of three separate forces at three separate nodes that have nowhere to dissipate to.

As far as weakening an already "weakened" tube by welding on it, the same load principles apply. In roll cage design there are many load dimensions to account for, weld strength, material strength, and load transfer. A single node will rely on load transfer more than material strength in this case. Load transfer is by far the strongest method.

S14_Kouki, don't take this as a critique to you by any means. That is not my intention at all. This is more towards the general reading audience as some points of education.

Do you have any suggestions for literature to look into when wanting more knowledge of cage design?

96Turbo · 10-03-2009, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roco

so how did you weld all the way around all the joints here roco? cut the roof, drop through the floor, or neither?

EDIT: this picture is beautiful by the way

s14_sr20_silvia · 10-03-2009, 04:46 PM

I feel like I just learned more in the last 10 minutes than in any other day of my life.. my head hurts now... I'm going to take a nap.

carps13guy · 10-03-2009, 05:27 PM

solid job man. welds are top notch.

roco · 10-03-2009, 05:56 PM

ha ha, this is exactly what i wanted out of this thread. good constructive coversation and constructive points, and people learning more, like TIG said none of this is directed at any particular person or company, and not everything i say may be gospel, as im sure im wrong sometimes and appreciate constructive critisisim as it helps you in the long run.

thanks for the compliments guys, and thanks to TIG for explaining it properly.

@96turbo: this looks complicated but is actualy quiet simple. it depends on the customer prefrence but i havent had anybody let me cut there roof off yet so the method i mainly use is to drop the main hoop only. i cut two small holes under the main hoop legs, and basicaly i mock up the main hoop, front legs and top bar over the windshield, then tack them all in place, and tack down the front floor plates. i leave the main hoop plates loose under the hoop legs and when all is tacked and in the right position i remove the plates and drop the hoop only about 12'' or so, making it easy to accsess the whole joint. this drops the cage enough as i can also get to the front joints without cutting more floor. when the main cage structure is all welded i then hike the cage back up into position, weld up the hole in the floor, and re-position the floor plates, and weld the main cage in place tight to the chassis and completely welded. the rear stays and diagonal are then added from the rear and theres more than enough room to get a good weld. i have seen debates that this method weakens the floor, but there are only two very small holes which are then welded in, and then a much larger heavier guage plate is then welded over that area spreading the load, and in my cages i usualy try to weld more than one plate to multiple planes or load bearing points like sill's, chassis legs or pillars to spread the load even further. but like i said before if done wrong it can be worse than not welding the cage all around. the floor plates must be as strong as the cage you build. ive seen some nice cages welded to 2x3 light plate tack'd to the floor. in a hard impact it could just drive the cage through the floor and could be fatal. in some casess a bad cage would kill you quicker than no cage.

like i have seen stuff like this that just makes you cringe, there realy are some shady people out there.

roco · 10-03-2009, 07:20 PM

this is some more usefull information about the roll cage point system,
im not sure if you use it over there in america, but here it is anyway.
this is a rough look at the Roll cage point system to help you choose which
roll cage is right for you. the image below highlights each different support bars added to gain greater structural integrity. which is right for you depends on the regulations of the motor sport discipline you are competing in or the stresses and demands you intend to put the cage and car through.

there are alot more than 15 points but this is a rough guide to the structure of the point system. image thanks to cusco.

orion::S14 · 10-03-2009, 08:55 PM

Looks great, thanks for sharing...

One note, regarding the Cusco chart pics...and your cage example: For it to be legal for SCCA, and many other sanctioning bodies in the US, you need a diagonal bar bracing the main hoop, on the same plane as the main hoop.

For example:

(MazWorx u-weld kit)

...just something to note, since your rules are different than ours.

- Brian

roco · 10-04-2009, 03:49 AM

yes good point. thats why i havent gone too deep into metal types, sizes, or actual cage design as there diffrent for sanctioning bodys accross the world. like the cage above was built to our local motorsport regs and is bare minimum to pass those regs, but that may not be suitable for other motor sports. if your building a cage, you should decide which motorsport you wish to compete, sit down with your cage builder and follow the rules and regs of that sport appropriatly.

240 GTR · 10-05-2009, 03:52 PM

so, in order to fully weld all of the joints around the top of the main hoop, do you cut holes that are relatively the same diameter of the bars you are using in the floor?

also, what is the logic as far as dimensions of floor plates? is using plinth boxes a more ideal route than just using floor plates?

*MELLO*SOS* · 10-05-2009, 04:10 PM

Excellent looking welds and great discussions here.

Roco I'm sure you've already seen it, but you should check out race-dezert.com. Trophy truck and offroad racing forum with a great fab subforum. Tons of pics and some very competent fabricators there.

Keep it coming!

TIG · 10-05-2009, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 240 GTR

also, what is the logic as far as dimensions of floor plates? is using plinth boxes a more ideal route than just using floor plates?

Sizes of the floor plates is sometimes depends on the class and the sanctioning body. Some have requirements you have to stay within, others do not.

As far as plinth boxes, I prefer floor plates over plinth boxes unless I need one to get over a frame rail or something to get a tight fit.

Roco, hope you don't mind me answering these questions as well.

roco · 10-05-2009, 04:31 PM

no by all means Tig work away, thats what i want other members to contribute there knowlage and experience, as i found when i was learning you could get more info on NASA space station than you could Roll Cages. lol

@240gtr. yes i cut holes slightly bigger than the diameter of the main hoop tube. so the tube will drop through the floor leaving enough space.

and i agree with Tig i prefer floor plates over box's. no major reason just personal prefrence.

even though this thread explains roughly how roll cages should be built there is still alot more to it, and i wouldnt advise any beginer fabricator or welder to try build one on the fly as unlike many things you may not get a second chance.

S14_Kouki · 10-05-2009, 04:40 PM

my mounting plates are 6x6 and I used .080 thick material

soon2bs13 · 10-05-2009, 05:46 PM

this thread is full of win!!

i have learned a lot tonight.

10-03-2009, 09:23 AM	#1
roco Leaky Injector Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: IRELAND Age: 35 Posts: 145 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	how we build cages the right way. made this little write up for a irish site here. thaught you guys might like it and add to it, this is only a rough write up and there are alot of other important points in cage building, but this is some of the things people should look for when buying or geting a cage built. too many shody cages being built, this is not an advertisement just information. and the cage built below is for local competition and built to those regs. copyd accross........... This thread is basicaly to show that our cages are built right. using the right tools and the right method, going off homolagated FIA design. first of all, all roll cages must be mandrell bent. our bender and tools are the industry standard in roll cage and space frame fabrication and used the world over by some of the best race teams and custom car builders. this makes sure that the bend is uniform, no ripples or kinks, and no flatening on the outside of the bend. cages must comply to certain design regs depending on the motorsport. and must be of a homolagated design, or go through an independant engineers assesment. joints in the cage must be profiled joints, this means the joint must be cut or notched to fit arround the adjoining tube. no but joints of any kind are used. we take great pride in our fabrication and our cages, and all roll cages are welded properly and welded all the way around the profiled joints. not just welded on the underside, or half moon welds. floor plates are regulation 3mm plate, theyre made to fit each car, and welded to diffrent planes on the car, ie, floor, sill, pillar etc. Because we bend and fab our cages in house, we make each cage to suit each indevidual car, no mass produced bad fitting cages. we build some of the tightest fitting cages bar none, our cages follow the lines and main frame of the car as close as possible, and in most cases the cage can be welded to the chassis in muliple places giving maximum driver space minimum intrusion into the cockpit and driver view. also stiffening the chassis even further. all in all thats how all top motorsport cages are built or should be built. like said before i take pride in my work and thats what makes the diffrence in a good product or service or a great product or service. below are some pictures of a cage i built this week and you will notice some of the points i made above regarding the building and fabrication. the pics of the cage are taken in raw metal so no defects in either metal or welding are hidden with paint. all bends and plates can be clearly seen. __________________ "Racing is life. Everything else that happens before or after is just waiting." ~Steve McQueen [Le Mans -1970]

10-03-2009, 10:30 AM	#5
S14_Kouki Nissanaholic! Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: TPA Posts: 1,947 Trader Rating: (4) Feedback Score: 4 reviews	I spy something wrong with your cage. It is very BAD to weld all that into the bend of the main hoop iv told ppl this before. When you bend the pipe it stretches the metal so it is alot weaker in the bend and should not be welded on. __________________ http://www.fabthis.com http://www.childhoodproductions.com/dbfab/store.html

10-03-2009, 11:16 AM	#10
S14_Kouki Nissanaholic! Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: TPA Posts: 1,947 Trader Rating: (4) Feedback Score: 4 reviews	Yes that sounds good. Im just saying what I practice. Im sure its just fine for load transfer like you all are saying but im talking about for if you crash its already weak in that spot and you should not make it more weaker by welding on it. Theres a better chance of it sheering at that spot. Here is my cage I built ps sorry for the not so great mig __________________ http://www.fabthis.com http://www.childhoodproductions.com/dbfab/store.html

10-03-2009, 05:56 PM	#21
roco Leaky Injector Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: IRELAND Age: 35 Posts: 145 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	ha ha, this is exactly what i wanted out of this thread. good constructive coversation and constructive points, and people learning more, like TIG said none of this is directed at any particular person or company, and not everything i say may be gospel, as im sure im wrong sometimes and appreciate constructive critisisim as it helps you in the long run. thanks for the compliments guys, and thanks to TIG for explaining it properly. @96turbo: this looks complicated but is actualy quiet simple. it depends on the customer prefrence but i havent had anybody let me cut there roof off yet so the method i mainly use is to drop the main hoop only. i cut two small holes under the main hoop legs, and basicaly i mock up the main hoop, front legs and top bar over the windshield, then tack them all in place, and tack down the front floor plates. i leave the main hoop plates loose under the hoop legs and when all is tacked and in the right position i remove the plates and drop the hoop only about 12'' or so, making it easy to accsess the whole joint. this drops the cage enough as i can also get to the front joints without cutting more floor. when the main cage structure is all welded i then hike the cage back up into position, weld up the hole in the floor, and re-position the floor plates, and weld the main cage in place tight to the chassis and completely welded. the rear stays and diagonal are then added from the rear and theres more than enough room to get a good weld. i have seen debates that this method weakens the floor, but there are only two very small holes which are then welded in, and then a much larger heavier guage plate is then welded over that area spreading the load, and in my cages i usualy try to weld more than one plate to multiple planes or load bearing points like sill's, chassis legs or pillars to spread the load even further. but like i said before if done wrong it can be worse than not welding the cage all around. the floor plates must be as strong as the cage you build. ive seen some nice cages welded to 2x3 light plate tack'd to the floor. in a hard impact it could just drive the cage through the floor and could be fatal. in some casess a bad cage would kill you quicker than no cage. like i have seen stuff like this that just makes you cringe, there realy are some shady people out there. __________________ "Racing is life. Everything else that happens before or after is just waiting." ~Steve McQueen [Le Mans -1970]

10-03-2009, 07:20 PM	#22
roco Leaky Injector Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: IRELAND Age: 35 Posts: 145 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	this is some more usefull information about the roll cage point system, im not sure if you use it over there in america, but here it is anyway. this is a rough look at the Roll cage point system to help you choose which roll cage is right for you. the image below highlights each different support bars added to gain greater structural integrity. which is right for you depends on the regulations of the motor sport discipline you are competing in or the stresses and demands you intend to put the cage and car through. there are alot more than 15 points but this is a rough guide to the structure of the point system. image thanks to cusco. __________________ "Racing is life. Everything else that happens before or after is just waiting." ~Steve McQueen [Le Mans -1970]

10-03-2009, 09:33 AM	#2
drift213 Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: los angeles Posts: 1,089 Trader Rating: (16) Feedback Score: 16 reviews	grat job wish you was around los angeles area ill would of have gotten one for my silvia

10-03-2009, 09:40 AM	#3
anotherblusi Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Walnut, SoCal Posts: 402 Trader Rating: (3) Feedback Score: 3 reviews	How were you able to complete the welds on the corners of the main hoop and roof cross?

10-03-2009, 10:33 AM	#6
TIG Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Metro Atlanta, Ga Posts: 23 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Nice to see a thread on properly built cages. I have seen many cages so poorly done that I question how they passed tech. Great work.

10-03-2009, 01:07 PM	#13
mdcrose Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Durham, NC Posts: 18 Trader Rating: (1) Feedback Score: 1 reviews	OP, nice looking cage! I totally agree with you about striving to have the support members joiningg at as few nodes as possible. This will cause the forces on those support members to resolve into tension and compresses rather than shear. Also the outside of the tube is where the majority of the stretching takes place.

10-03-2009, 01:23 PM	#14
Howard92884 Zilvia Addict Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Puyallup, WA/Mosul, Iraq Age: 36 Posts: 829 Trader Rating: (1) Rides Gallery: Howard92884 Feedback Score: 1 reviews	Fawking beautiful.

10-03-2009, 01:33 PM	#15
96Turbo Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: AZ Age: 32 Posts: 1,315 Trader Rating: (11) Feedback Score: 11 reviews	great cages, and good discussion on the load nodes. definitely learned something can't wait till i need a cage!!!

10-03-2009, 04:46 PM	#19
s14_sr20_silvia Leaky Injector Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: NC-->CA Posts: 140 Trader Rating: (1) Feedback Score: 1 reviews	I feel like I just learned more in the last 10 minutes than in any other day of my life.. my head hurts now... I'm going to take a nap.

10-03-2009, 05:27 PM	#20
carps13guy Leaky Injector Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: santa barbara Age: 34 Posts: 54 Trader Rating: (3) Feedback Score: 3 reviews	solid job man. welds are top notch.

10-03-2009, 08:55 PM	#23
orion::S14 Nissanaholic! Join Date: May 2003 Location: Orange Park, FL Posts: 1,665 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Looks great, thanks for sharing... One note, regarding the Cusco chart pics...and your cage example: For it to be legal for SCCA, and many other sanctioning bodies in the US, you need a diagonal bar bracing the main hoop, on the same plane as the main hoop. For example: (MazWorx u-weld kit) ...just something to note, since your rules are different than ours. - Brian __________________ www.KA24DEvelopment.com

10-04-2009, 03:49 AM	#24
roco Leaky Injector Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: IRELAND Age: 35 Posts: 145 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	yes good point. thats why i havent gone too deep into metal types, sizes, or actual cage design as there diffrent for sanctioning bodys accross the world. like the cage above was built to our local motorsport regs and is bare minimum to pass those regs, but that may not be suitable for other motor sports. if your building a cage, you should decide which motorsport you wish to compete, sit down with your cage builder and follow the rules and regs of that sport appropriatly. __________________ "Racing is life. Everything else that happens before or after is just waiting." ~Steve McQueen [Le Mans -1970]

10-05-2009, 03:52 PM	#25
240 GTR Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: michigan Posts: 316 Trader Rating: (10) Feedback Score: 10 reviews	so, in order to fully weld all of the joints around the top of the main hoop, do you cut holes that are relatively the same diameter of the bars you are using in the floor? also, what is the logic as far as dimensions of floor plates? is using plinth boxes a more ideal route than just using floor plates? __________________ Detroit Drifting Co.- Detroit, MI

10-05-2009, 04:10 PM	#26
MELLOSOS* LAID OUT Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: LAS VEGAS Age: 39 Posts: 2,015 Trader Rating: (1) Rides Gallery: MELLO*SOS Feedback Score: 1 reviews	Excellent looking welds and great discussions here. Roco I'm sure you've already seen it, but you should check out race-dezert.com. Trophy truck and offroad racing forum with a great fab subforum. Tons of pics and some very competent fabricators there. Keep it coming!

10-05-2009, 04:31 PM	#28
roco Leaky Injector Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: IRELAND Age: 35 Posts: 145 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	no by all means Tig work away, thats what i want other members to contribute there knowlage and experience, as i found when i was learning you could get more info on NASA space station than you could Roll Cages. lol @240gtr. yes i cut holes slightly bigger than the diameter of the main hoop tube. so the tube will drop through the floor leaving enough space. and i agree with Tig i prefer floor plates over box's. no major reason just personal prefrence. even though this thread explains roughly how roll cages should be built there is still alot more to it, and i wouldnt advise any beginer fabricator or welder to try build one on the fly as unlike many things you may not get a second chance. __________________ "Racing is life. Everything else that happens before or after is just waiting." ~Steve McQueen [Le Mans -1970] Last edited by roco; 11-19-2009 at 03:13 AM..

10-05-2009, 04:40 PM	#29
S14_Kouki Nissanaholic! Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: TPA Posts: 1,947 Trader Rating: (4) Feedback Score: 4 reviews	my mounting plates are 6x6 and I used .080 thick material __________________ http://www.fabthis.com http://www.childhoodproductions.com/dbfab/store.html

10-05-2009, 05:46 PM	#30
soon2bs13 Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: TN Posts: 482 Trader Rating: (1) Feedback Score: 1 reviews	this thread is full of win!! i have learned a lot tonight. __________________ neg repping is cool!!

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