Dboyizmlg

Current set up:
-3inch full exhaust
-fmi
-walbro f pump
-hks actuator (set at 10psi)

I want to add tomei pon cams, and apex pfc tuned to 13psi.
My question is what would I expect with adding cams and PFC, tuned to 13psi?
What kind of numbers on the dyno to expect. Also, if it is a noticible improvement with the small t25 turbo.

240boi115

the car will feel more in tune and responsive(enginewise). tuned right your looking at least a 15-20 hp increase...at 13psi youre coming close to the t25's limits before choking.

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my 240 broke down..again

Mikester

^^True...

Don't worry about cams till you get a bigger... All adding cams will do is shrink your power band.

HOWEVER, add the PFC, injectors, a good EBC and dyno tune and you can make 280rwhp with the T25 (experience talking) & surprise a lot of people!

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Dboyizmlg

Would it be wise to upgrade cams with that tune set up,I'm aiming at 270whp with the t25.
Or would it be better to put cams in once I upgrade to bigger turbo?

Dboyizmlg

Thank you for the helpful input!
That's exactly what I was looking for!

As I have plans soon, for PFC, 550cc inj, z32 maf, tuned to 13 psi.

AdamR

Why a PFC?

KoukiMonsta

Curious what you suggest?

ROM such as enthalpy or jwt?

Good options in my book, go browse the gt2871r thread for some great info. Lots of knowledgable guys.

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@UpshiftEngineering

Kingtal0n

I think you should stick to the OEM exhaust. OEM nissan silvia S15 have the same OEM exhaust as S14 KA24DE 240sx, I have measured it and used it on my car before. its identical.
And those S15 sr20det can produce 280rwhp NO problem.

I would also keep the boost to around 10psi no higher.
You will find that most T-25 will not even hold 13psi to redline on most engines. When they are brand new, sometimes. But most of them are old and a bit worn out.
The most I would expect from that setup is around 250rwhp. I have rarely seen a T-25 produce more than that.

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5.3/4l80e/turbo 240sx playthrough:
https://tinyurl.com/turbo240

AdamR

I wouldn't use any of the above, but how much is a PFC? I wouldn't do anything but a full standalone.

jr_ss

That's a bit overkill for the extent of his mods... He pretty much has BPU's why get rid of the OEM driveability a factory tuned ECU offers over a full EMS?

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My SR20VET

Kingtal0n

A power FC is a full stand alone. Its missing a few bells and whistles but Ive tuned a 500 horsepower AWD R34 GT-R Skyline 2002 and a 650RWHP RB26 in an S13 both with power FC- no issues.
They start and drive like stock. cant complain. Want to see the dynos?

Ah, I agree, do not use the PFC if you are not changing injectors / maf sensor. Keep it simple. but fwiw you can have oem drivability on a PFC just sayin'

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5.3/4l80e/turbo 240sx playthrough:
https://tinyurl.com/turbo240

AdamR

You can tune a car with anything, I don't really care what you claimed to have done.
Paying as much for ancient tech with a small feature list as you would for a modern standalone with more features than rev limit, fuel and timing is silly.

Mikester

True, but there are also the factors of 'who tunes with what' in a particular area and what really matters to the individual. Ancient to you young guys may just be considered 'familiar' to us oldies lol

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Croustibat

For that kind of mods i'd just get a nistune board and someone to tune it tbh. PFC or cams are overkill for a T25 (even a t28) . Not sure you can get 280WHP with a T25 and standard injectors though. Turbo wont last long. Even a T28 would be quite out of puff...

Mikester

I know 280 @1.15bar w/T25 sounds like a pretty bold claim... but I assure you, my car did it- scout's honor... only pushed it that hard on the dyno & while drag racing Sunday nights... DD'd at 'normal boost' the rest of the time and never had a problem... I have been searching high and low for my old dyno sheet.

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Tom N

What kind of ET and MPH in the 1/4 did you do at 280hp?

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98 240sx w/ S15 SR20DET, T2 20g, 11.22 @ 124.98

Kingtal0n

whoa. a pfc is like $750 brand new. And $500 used usually. a $500 stand alone to run a 500+ horsepower vehicle is pretty damn nice.

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5.3/4l80e/turbo 240sx playthrough:
https://tinyurl.com/turbo240

Kingtal0n

good
Most ive seen a 50k miles T-25 put out is around 230rwhp. Most ive seen a 50k T-28 put out is around 280rwhp. Ive seen an S15 turbo on a 15k motor do 300rwhp.
And thats also true about the injectors, 370cc/min will not cut it unless you really jack up the fuel pressure.

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5.3/4l80e/turbo 240sx playthrough:
https://tinyurl.com/turbo240

AdamR

Just saying, ever for that price there is much better available.
2011 AMSOIL Engine Masters Challenge Xtreme Street Division Wednesday Updates - Engine Masters Magazine

Mikester

Did it with 850's, Z32MAFS etc etc. tuned by Yoshi at Odotec in Okinawa. Still searching for the sheet.

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Kingtal0n

not a dynojet right? Different dynos all read different. I had a car do 250rwhp on one dyno and 302rwhp on the next. To keep numbers matching go by trap speeds. What did it trap? 104?

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5.3/4l80e/turbo 240sx playthrough:
https://tinyurl.com/turbo240

Mikester

^^Honestly couldn't tell you- In Okinawa, there was no 'real' quarter mile to speak of. Hit up FlipRayzin240sx... He was there while I was... Pretty sure he may have seen the sheet back in the day.

Like I said, absolutely bold claim; but I'm being 100% honest. The power curve looked funky as the boost started to fall off around 5,500-6,000rpm due to the T25 choking on itself... but it made 280 nonetheless. I will find that sheet & post it for sure.

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Tom N

Pretty sure what he is getting at is it making 280 hp on a dyno means nothing with out 1/4 mile mph to back it up. There are tons of high reading money making dynos out there. I have seen cars loose 50+ hp going from one dyno to another and the other way around.

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98 240sx w/ S15 SR20DET, T2 20g, 11.22 @ 124.98

Mikester

I understand what he was saying... But there was only one dyno in Okinawa that most of us knew of; I have no idea what type it is b/c I don't read Japanese lol; and no quarter mile to get an accurate trap speed. What I DO know is that a lot of people were genuinely surprised when they realized I was still rocking a stock T25 at the time & keeping up.

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Tom N

Why posting dyno numbers with no real worlds track times is meaningless.

AMS Performance Dyno Parameter Manipulation Overview - YouTube

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98 240sx w/ S15 SR20DET, T2 20g, 11.22 @ 124.98

Kingtal0n

GT25r compressor map

This isnt the actual T-25 map but from what I know its pretty close.

The compressor map tells us something. it says here, 25lb/min of airflow is around the maximum potential of the compressor. You can look up Garret GT2554 also and its close to the same. Even if the compressor supports 27lb/min or 28lb/min you are still looking at Brake Horsepower potential, or close to it (must factor out rotating mass of rotating assembly of course).

So Real world Real Rear Wheel Horsepower Potential is an authentic 230~ horsepower on a good day with 8%-12% drivetrain losses. Now, I've seen a dynojet graph of a T-25 putting down slightly more. What does this mean?

Well, consider compressors do not flow MASS of air. They flow a VOLUME. SO when the compressor map says, 25lbs/minute, what its really saying is they have taken a given cubic feet / minute of airflow (or some other volume / unit time) and converted it to mass of air / unit time for the sake of showing us a potential horsepower number. The truth and the light at the end of the tunnel is that as you adjust ambient air temperature (and compressor outlet temperature) The mass of air being moved by the turbocharger will vary. Which means you can squeeze more and more horsepower out of a "maxed" compressor simply be reducing the compressor outlet temperature.

Put another way, we could probably squeeze 300 horsepower out of a T-25 with the right inlet temperature at any boost pressure.
And, to expand this line of thought, engines also flow a volume of air. So colder air = more horsepower even from naturally aspirated engines. But we all knew that... right?

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5.3/4l80e/turbo 240sx playthrough:
https://tinyurl.com/turbo240

b.series

Bro get the power FC, but get the d-jetro model. Its more accurate, and if anything happens to the piping between the turbo and the intake you can still drive the car home.
Cams is also a great addition, i changed my exhaust cam to a tomei pon cam and the no longer eats crap after 6000. I am boosting at 1 bar (14 psi) stock s13 turbine. cams will change the whole engines feel.

i recommend getting the power FC D-Jetro first, then injectors probably 550s

once that is taken care of then look into cams, springs and retainers, head gasket, and head studs

Croustibat

That is retardedly overkill ... a rom tune, an S14 turbo, injectors, an intercooler and he will surely get more power and be more reliable than what you have now, for at most a quarter of the price...

No one needs cams, springs or retainers for that turbo (hell you dont need any of these until you are aiming for more than 400HP, and at that time the problem is called gearbox)

Kingtal0n

After years of experience Ive learned that when it comes to street cars, daily drivers, you would really prefer to use the OEM valvesprings if possible. This is to keep valvetrain wear to a minimum. Kind of the same idea behind keeping engine RPM below 3500 during a cruise, less wear and tear. I learned these lessons from big displacement V8 engines where solid roller camshafts are popular and proper spring choice is king.

That said, a set of camshafts designed for oem springs, such as JWT S3, are perfect for 350-400 horsepower SR20DET engines. Tomei used to make a set that would work on OEM springs in the 26X duration, but iirc they stopped. The OEM Sr20 camshafts will stop you around 320 rwhp at 18-20psi most of the time.

Power FC D-jetro should be used when SR20DET engines are making over 400 horsepower, OR when you simply wish to delete the MAF sensor. an L-jetro PFC is very easy to tune, compared to the D-jetro map version. Easy enough for a beginner in my opinion, if you have a decent computer background.

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5.3/4l80e/turbo 240sx playthrough:
https://tinyurl.com/turbo240

Dboyizmlg

Lol, I've decided that it would just be much better to do all at once!
Going to build the head first with upgrade valve train, cams, head gasket.

Then....
Gt2871r
740cc inj
Apexi pfc
And done!

Figure that the old, high mileage t25 turbo will only give me a little more power (maybe 260whp if I'm lucky). So It would be much wiser if I just do it all at once. No need for headaches and waste of money purchasing injectors, and tuning twice.

DO IT ONCE AND BE DONE!