REPORT: Corvette ZR1 matches Nissan GT-R around NÃ¼rburgring in Sport Auto test - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

ZilviaBot · 09-24-2009, 01:40 PM

09-23-2009 12:29 PM

Filed under: Coupe, Etc., Europe, Chevrolet, Nissan

Chevrolet Corvette ZR1 - click above image for hi-res gallery

Ah... what's it been, three weeks since we mentioned a NÃ¼rburgring "record?" Well, rest easy friends, as this post has nothing to do with a "record." Instead, it's all about the time laid down at the 'Ring by Horst von Saurma, editor of Germany's Auto Sport. Herr von Saurma lends an air of credibility to these tests, as not only did he briefly race professionally, but his 'Ring results are generally taken seriously. For instance, his 7:32 in a Porsche Carrera GT was considered the production record until recently when Nissan and General Motors started bringing in factory hot shoes.

Anyhow, here's what Horst found: The Chevrolet Corvette ZR1 goes around the Nurburgring in 7:38 - the exact same amount of time it took him to hoof the Nissan GT-R around the circuit. Odd, you think? For the Nissan weighs almost 500 pounds more and gives up at least 100 horsepower to the Chevy. Not to mention around 165 lb-ft of torque. Yes, well, the 'Ring ain't a drag strip. And while big power helps, it's not the be-all and end-all. Both cars handle extremely well, but we're going to chock up the GT-R's impressive tie to an X factor. Namely, the twin-turbo Nissan is easier to flog at or around the limit than the supercharged Corvette - all-wheel drive helps in the dry, too, see?

And what about the issue that both manufacturers laid down 'Ring times in the 7:25 range? Well, it's within the margin of error you'd expect for a track as long as the NÃ¼rburgring, especially when the cars are driven on different days by different drivers. One more thing: Horst von Saurma laid down the Nissan's time in a 2009 model, and not in the new 2010 which features more power, better suspension and better brakes. Nor, for that matter, is it the Spec-V model. Just sayin'. Thanks to Wags for the tip!

Gallery: Review: 2009 Chevrolet Corvette ZR1

Gallery: Review: 2010 Nissan GT-R

[Source: GTRblog]

REPORT: Corvette ZR1 matches Nissan GT-R around NÃ¼rburgring in Sport Auto test originally appeared on Autoblog on Wed, 23 Sep 2009 13:29:00 EST. Please see our terms for use of feeds.

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ronmcdon · 09-24-2009, 04:48 PM

That does make the testing somewhat more scientific.
Why limit comparisons of different cars just the same track?
Using the same driver for comparos, does eliminate another significant factor.

Still, it could be better.
Use multiple drivers (whom both get to drive the same car).
Test under similar road & weather conditions.
Try to have a 3rd party magazine not affliated with either manufacturer conduct the testing.
Test on different tracks with the same variables held constant.
It's hard to ensure complete objectivity, but a lot more measure could be made.

As stated in the article, the fact that the driver accomplished the same lap times could mean many things.
Could be that he's just more comfy with one car.
Could be that he's had more practice with one car.
Could be that one of the cars is more fine-tuned to a particular track.

Regardless, both automobiles are nothing short of masterpieces no question.

drift freaq · 09-24-2009, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ronmcdon

That does make the testing somewhat more scientific.
Why limit comparisons of different cars just the same track?
Using the same driver for comparos, does eliminate another significant factor.

Still, it could be better.
Use multiple drivers (whom both get to drive the same car).
Test under similar road & weather conditions.
Try to have a 3rd party magazine not affliated with either manufacturer conduct the testing.
Test on different tracks with the same variables held constant.
It's hard to ensure complete objectivity, but a lot more measure could be made.

As stated in the article, the fact that the driver accomplished the same lap times could mean many things.
Could be that he's just more comfy with one car.
Could be that he's had more practice with one car.
Could be that one of the cars is more fine-tuned to a particular track.

Regardless, both automobiles are nothing short of masterpieces no question.

I would tend to agree though it still comes back to one sticking point. The ZR1 is by no means the average mans Corvette i.e. not entry level VS the GTR being the entry level version of the GTR. Like the article has stated and I ask how would the ZR1 hold up against a V spec or LM spec?

For that matter the GT2 itself is again not a entry level 911. Rather it being the higher up the ladder.

The same could be said for the ACR Viper. Its not your entry level Viper.

Until the manufacturers are willing to play fair . I am calling both GM and Porsche out on this, bring out out your entry level Corvette and 911 and see how they stack up against a GTR.

With that said the ZR1 is amazing the ACR Viper is amazing and the GT2 is amazing. In the end Nissan wins at price point. More car less money.

ronmcdon · 09-24-2009, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drift freaq

I would tend to agree though it still comes back to one sticking point. The ZR1 is by no means the average mans Corvette i.e. not entry level VS the GTR being the entry level version of the GTR. Like the article has stated and I ask how would the ZR1 hold up against a V spec or LM spec?

For that matter the GT2 itself is again not a entry level 911. Rather it being the higher up the ladder.

The same could be said for the ACR Viper. Its not your entry level Viper.

Until the manufacturers are willing to play fair . I am calling both GM and Porsche out on this, bring out out your entry level Corvette and 911 and see how they stack up against a GTR.

With that said the ZR1 is amazing the ACR Viper is amazing and the GT2 is amazing. In the end Nissan wins at price point. More car less money.

With Chevy, the Z06 would probably be more comparable to the GTR in price-range and power/weight ratio.
The base 40k-something vette (closest to something the average man could afford) wouldn't stand a chance.

With Dodge, IIRC, for the 09's, the 90k ACR's were already the cheapest Viper.
Dodge - 2009 Viper - Sports Car, Roadster, Sports Coupe

Reading about the R35 V-spec, it seems that improvements are modest.
Maybe slightly more aggressive suspension adjustments, 200 lb weight reduction, and a few extra ponies??
The premium ($140k?) is hefty.
I'm skeptical it'll be an outrageously more car the base GTR.
Only time will tell.
Would be interesting to see the two trims go head-on.

Don't think a base 997 could compete.
997 (and 996) base trims have never really been much of a performance bargain imo.

I think it's a valid comparo, if you're comparing 'the best of, performance-wise' what each manufacturer has to offer,
road-legal, right now, money no object.
The R35 would still trounce competitors several times the cost.

drift freaq · 09-25-2009, 02:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ronmcdon

With Chevy, the Z06 would probably be more comparable to the GTR in price-range and power/weight ratio.
The base 40k-something vette (closest to something the average man could afford) wouldn't stand a chance.

With Dodge, IIRC, for the 09's, the 90k ACR's were already the cheapest Viper.
Dodge - 2009 Viper - Sports Car, Roadster, Sports Coupe

Reading about the R35 V-spec, it seems that improvements are modest.
Maybe slightly more aggressive suspension adjustments, 200 lb weight reduction, and a few extra ponies??
The premium ($140k?) is hefty.
I'm skeptical it'll be an outrageously more car the base GTR.
Only time will tell.
Would be interesting to see the two trims go head-on.

Don't think a base 997 could compete.
997 (and 996) base trims have never really been much of a performance bargain imo.

I think it's a valid comparo, if you're comparing 'the best of, performance-wise' what each manufacturer has to offer,
road-legal, right now, money no object.
The R35 would still trounce competitors several times the cost.

well I guess I stand corrected on the Viper pricing wise.

I would probably agree with you, on the Z06 being the proper car to pit against the GTR.

I can see your final conclusion for the comparo, but still its funny that GM had to throw their top of the line Vette up against it,rather than the Z06. Especially since the ZR1 has a higher entry price wise.

As for the mention of the base Porsches, it all has to do with the overpricing. Sure the GT2 might be the proper car to compare to the GTR performance wise but again like the ZR1 is way over the purchase price of a GTR. That is fail for those manufacturers and a win for Nissan.

Though like everyone in the Automotive world has admitted ,regardless of if they like how it looks. The GTR has turned the Automotive world on its head price/performance wise.

Its an Amazing piece of Automotive ingenuity, cost wise and performance wise.

SuicidnS13 · 09-25-2009, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drift freaq

well I guess I stand corrected on the Viper pricing wise.

I would probably agree with you, on the Z06 being the proper car to pit against the GTR.

I can see your final conclusion for the comparo, but still its funny that GM had to throw their top of the line Vette up against it,rather than the Z06. Especially since the ZR1 has a higher entry price wise.

As for the mention of the base Porsches, it all has to do with the overpricing. Sure the GT2 might be the proper car to compare to the GTR performance wise but again like the ZR1 is way over the purchase price of a GTR. That is fail for those manufacturers and a win for Nissan.

Though like everyone in the Automotive world has admitted ,regardless of if they like how it looks. The GTR has turned the Automotive world on its head price/performance wise.

Its an Amazing piece of Automotive ingenuity, cost wise and performance wise.

Have you walked into a nissan dealership and actually priced out a GTR? OTD its going to cost as much as a zr1(105+k) And in no way is a GTR an entry level car. They built the GTR to play with the bigboys. And it can definately. But IMO they failed buy giving it the crappy ass glass twin clutch tranny. Plus the maintenance costs on a GTR are 5x the cost of either of the cars you are comparing it too. Id take the zr1 over any of the listed cars just due to price per value. The GTR has waaaay too many limitations for a person who really enjoys to DRIVE their cars. Especially people who mod their cars.

Hell if nissan gave us a 6spd getrag transmission it would drop over $15k of the price alone of the vehicle. Also take off another $4,000 in maintenance costs just in the first 2 years of owning the damn car. Hell nissan is ripping people off all day on warranty issues now too. Give it a 6spd and Id pick one up in a heart beat. Than it would also be fair to compare it to a zo6(budget track car IMO). IMO nissan built a supercar at a budget price. But owning the car will cost as much as the other supercars it was made to compete against. (Except for the dodge viper and the corvette Zr1/zo6)

ronmcdon · 09-26-2009, 08:30 PM

this isn't about which car is better,
somehow more involving,
criminal dealer mark-ups,
the technical controversies of either car.
so-on & so-forth, etc.

it's just a comparo of Nurburgring lap times w/ the same driver.

VNG704 · 09-26-2009, 09:10 PM

The viper shouldn't even be compared being as they had their team there (or so the grapevine says) to have the car prepped specifically for the track. Nonsense.

drift freaq · 09-26-2009, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuicidnS13

Have you walked into a nissan dealership and actually priced out a GTR? OTD its going to cost as much as a zr1(105+k) And in no way is a GTR an entry level car. They built the GTR to play with the bigboys. And it can definately. But IMO they failed buy giving it the crappy ass glass twin clutch tranny. Plus the maintenance costs on a GTR are 5x the cost of either of the cars you are comparing it too. Id take the zr1 over any of the listed cars just due to price per value. The GTR has waaaay too many limitations for a person who really enjoys to DRIVE their cars. Especially people who mod their cars.

Hell if nissan gave us a 6spd getrag transmission it would drop over $15k of the price alone of the vehicle. Also take off another $4,000 in maintenance costs just in the first 2 years of owning the damn car. Hell nissan is ripping people off all day on warranty issues now too. Give it a 6spd and Id pick one up in a heart beat. Than it would also be fair to compare it to a zo6(budget track car IMO). IMO nissan built a supercar at a budget price. But owning the car will cost as much as the other supercars it was made to compete against. (Except for the dodge viper and the corvette Zr1/zo6)

Actually yes I have. There are dealerships all over the country right now selling them at invoice. My Brother in laws best friend just picked one up for factory invoice which is 79k not 105K+ like your talking about with evening knowing.

Yes when they first hit they were going for 105k but they are not know. Take a look around you we are in a major recession nothing is selling for what it sold for 6-9 months to a year ago.

Plus you spout rhetoric without even having actually done the research. How old are you? Glass tranny? Ah excuse me there have been like less than 20 incidents of people wrecking their transmissions when using launch control and turning off their VDC.

Under 20 cars out of 1500 hmmm less than 10% of the people who were openly abusing their cars and it was even mentioned in the owners manual. Oh and every single one of them

If you think the launch control limitation keeps someone from enjoying the GTR for what is what built for you are a damn idiot. The people using launch control are using it solely for 0-60 times i.e. drag racing.

Not driving the car on track or in the mountains or anything else.

Oh and it was explicitly stated in the GTR owners manual what was valid uses under the warranty for launch control. These guys were using it for drag racing and to show how quickly they could launch from a stop light.

Ah excuse me but technically that is called exhibition of speed and is a ticket unless you are at a drag strip or race track.

Oh I should add that Nissan has actually taken care of the issue by both compensation for the cry babies who unwittingly violated their warranties and has revamped the launch control and the transmissions. Which by the way are not even Nissan transmissions but Borg Warner building them with licensed technology for Nissan.

Oh and you think the maintenance costs of a GTR is 5 times that of owning a Porsche or a Ferrari . Well I guess you have never owned either one, because guess what they are just as expensive as the GTR. I know but I bet you don't.

Oh and while it might cost to much for your blood the fact is even with those costs the entry price is so cheap for what it does that it does not matter.

Oh and thanks for shitting on this thread with your lack of knowledge and pure bullshit this thread was about the comparo and you turned into a debate about costs and whatnot.

Come back to discuss when you know actual real numbers and not spout shit you have read on internet, and even old information at that.

I would bet your not more than 17 years old by your join date.

ronmcdon · 09-27-2009, 03:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VNG704

The viper shouldn't even be compared being as they had their team there (or so the grapevine says) to have the car prepped specifically for the track. Nonsense.

I'm certain most manufacturers do this.
Nissan did it with their GTRs.
Porsche, GM, at least.
good Ring times are good publicity.

GSXRJJordan · 09-27-2009, 06:28 AM

I'm a fan of the GTR ~ like Dave said, they really did turn the performance world on it's head, showing that heavy cars with mid-level displacement really can compete.

The GTR is more in the ZR1's price range than the Z06's, but you're right, the Z06 should be the competitor there ~ Z06 vette, Viper, and GTR. Porsche, Ferrari, and Lambo can sit out since they don't make anything worth a damn below $100k.

Suicidn has a good point, although it's a bit dated. Nissan quickly changed the launch control setup after they started having problems, and have now changed it again, and are covering all warranty claims. A 6spd manual was never in the design, they're too into the tech.

And yeah, the thing about the Viper ACR is it actually has a lot of adjustment available in factory form, so I can't knock the Mopar guys for trying to get the most out of it. I'm sure when your only adjustment is tire pressure *cough, Corvette* you're out there fiddling with that shit all day too.

illvialuver · 09-28-2009, 02:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drift freaq

I would tend to agree though it still comes back to one sticking point. The ZR1 is by no means the average mans Corvette i.e. not entry level VS the GTR being the entry level version of the GTR. Like the article has stated and I ask how would the ZR1 hold up against a V spec or LM spec?

For that matter the GT2 itself is again not a entry level 911. Rather it being the higher up the ladder.

The same could be said for the ACR Viper. Its not your entry level Viper.

Until the manufacturers are willing to play fair . I am calling both GM and Porsche out on this, bring out out your entry level Corvette and 911 and see how they stack up against a GTR.

With that said the ZR1 is amazing the ACR Viper is amazing and the GT2 is amazing. In the end Nissan wins at price point. More car less money.

This was my argument from the start when people bitch and moan about the vette being better. When it is not, the zr1 is barely better. And that is the 3rd level up vette, being the it is the stock vette , the z06 and then the zr1.

09-24-2009, 01:40 PM	#1
ZilviaBot Zilvia.net Bot Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 199 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	REPORT: Corvette ZR1 matches Nissan GT-R around NÃ¼rburgring in Sport Auto test 09-23-2009 12:29 PM Filed under: Coupe, Etc., Europe, Chevrolet, Nissan *Chevrolet Corvette ZR1 - click above image for hi-res gallery* Ah... what's it been, three weeks since we mentioned a NÃ¼rburgring "record?" Well, rest easy friends, as this post has nothing to do with a "record." Instead, it's all about the time laid down at the 'Ring by Horst von Saurma, editor of Germany's Auto Sport. Herr von Saurma lends an air of credibility to these tests, as not only did he briefly race professionally, but his 'Ring results are generally taken seriously. For instance, his 7:32 in a Porsche Carrera GT was considered the production record until recently when Nissan and General Motors started bringing in factory hot shoes. Anyhow, here's what Horst found: The Chevrolet Corvette ZR1 goes around the Nurburgring in 7:38 - the exact same amount of time it took him to hoof the Nissan GT-R around the circuit. Odd, you think? For the Nissan weighs almost 500 pounds more and gives up at least 100 horsepower to the Chevy. Not to mention around 165 lb-ft of torque. Yes, well, the 'Ring ain't a drag strip. And while big power helps, it's not the be-all and end-all. Both cars handle extremely well, but we're going to chock up the GT-R's impressive tie to an X factor. Namely, the twin-turbo Nissan is easier to flog at or around the limit than the supercharged Corvette - all-wheel drive helps in the dry, too, see? And what about the issue that both manufacturers laid down 'Ring times in the 7:25 range? Well, it's within the margin of error you'd expect for a track as long as the NÃ¼rburgring, especially when the cars are driven on different days by different drivers. One more thing: Horst von Saurma laid down the Nissan's time in a 2009 model, and not in the new 2010 which features more power, better suspension and better brakes. Nor, for that matter, is it the Spec-V model. Just sayin'. Thanks to Wags for the tip! Gallery: Review: 2009 Chevrolet Corvette ZR1 Gallery: Review: 2010 Nissan GT-R [Source: GTRblog] REPORT: Corvette ZR1 matches Nissan GT-R around NÃ¼rburgring in Sport Auto test originally appeared on Autoblog on Wed, 23 Sep 2009 13:29:00 EST. Please see our terms for use of feeds. PermalinkÂ\|ÂEmail thisÂ\|ÂComments More...

09-27-2009, 06:28 AM	#11
GSXRJJordan Post Whore! Join Date: May 2006 Location: << 626 >> Posts: 9,135 Trader Rating: (19) Rides Gallery: GSXRJJordan Feedback Score: 19 reviews	I'm a fan of the GTR ~ like Dave said, they really did turn the performance world on it's head, showing that heavy cars with mid-level displacement really can compete. The GTR is more in the ZR1's price range than the Z06's, but you're right, the Z06 should be the competitor there ~ Z06 vette, Viper, and GTR. Porsche, Ferrari, and Lambo can sit out since they don't make anything worth a damn below $100k. Suicidn has a good point, although it's a bit dated. Nissan quickly changed the launch control setup after they started having problems, and have now changed it again, and are covering all warranty claims. A 6spd manual was never in the design, they're too into the tech. And yeah, the thing about the Viper ACR is it actually has a lot of adjustment available in factory form, so I can't knock the Mopar guys for trying to get the most out of it. I'm sure when your only adjustment is tire pressure cough, Corvette you're out there fiddling with that shit all day too. __________________ Jordan Innovations has a new web site! www.JordanInnovations.com -- All your favorite FD Pro Drifters love it, trust me -- www.JordanInnovations.com

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09-24-2009, 04:48 PM	#2
ronmcdon Post Whore! Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: beverly hills Age: 86 Posts: 4,254 Trader Rating: (6) Feedback Score: 6 reviews	That does make the testing somewhat more scientific. Why limit comparisons of different cars just the same track? Using the same driver for comparos, does eliminate another significant factor. Still, it could be better. Use multiple drivers (whom both get to drive the same car). Test under similar road & weather conditions. Try to have a 3rd party magazine not affliated with either manufacturer conduct the testing. Test on different tracks with the same variables held constant. It's hard to ensure complete objectivity, but a lot more measure could be made. As stated in the article, the fact that the driver accomplished the same lap times could mean many things. Could be that he's just more comfy with one car. Could be that he's had more practice with one car. Could be that one of the cars is more fine-tuned to a particular track. Regardless, both automobiles are nothing short of masterpieces no question.

09-26-2009, 08:30 PM	#7
ronmcdon Post Whore! Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: beverly hills Age: 86 Posts: 4,254 Trader Rating: (6) Feedback Score: 6 reviews	this isn't about which car is better, somehow more involving, criminal dealer mark-ups, the technical controversies of either car. so-on & so-forth, etc. it's just a comparo of Nurburgring lap times w/ the same driver.

09-26-2009, 09:10 PM	#8
VNG704 Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 1,575 Trader Rating: (17) Feedback Score: 17 reviews	The viper shouldn't even be compared being as they had their team there (or so the grapevine says) to have the car prepped specifically for the track. Nonsense.