NORCAL: Thunderhill raceway - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

sw20>>s14 · 10-05-2011, 07:10 PM

Thought I'd be nice to have threads on various local tracks. Suggestions, line preferences, tips, pointers, Takumi secrets, anything! I am taking into consideration different cars having different approaches so just briefly list your set up.

There is no right or wrong way so don't get butthurt over this. Who knows, maybe we can all learn a thing or two from each other.

S14 with stock to low KA power, 90% full suspension, 90% full drivetrain, aggressive alignment, DOT street tires 245/40/17 on 9.5

Turn 2 - Setting up and braking in the middle at the last marker, turn in with no throttle input for a few seconds while passing the first sector of the apex, reapply throttle softly during the apex, and punch it to 3/4 throttle unwinding to the outer berm.

Bypass - Set up in the middle, before the crown car is pointed to the right, aim for the black patch on the ground, punch it 3/4s. This Friday, I will try (based on suggestion from seasoned instructor) setting up to the far left and aiming for the same patch. There is supposed to be a steeper grade on the outside to carry more speed going down.

Turn 7 - Blip the brake just to settle the car, not slowing down. Then carry all the speed to the runoff.

Turn 8 - DON'T BRAKE! and unwind ALL THE WAY to the runoff.

Turn 9 - Early apex, and aim for the right. Unwind back to the left and wind back in to the right for turn 10.

Turn 10 - Brake to slow down, but not too much. As scary as it feels, carry all the speed and throw it in.

Issues/problems:

-I understeer on early apex and oversteer on late apex for turn 11 and my arms are crossed all the way with my left elbow jamming into my gut. I have a full bucket and a slim (1.25") QR

Let's see where this goes, I expect a lot of you Norcal guys to chime in!

CrOW · 10-05-2011, 07:15 PM

What's up, bro!

sw20>>s14 · 10-06-2011, 04:53 PM

howdy do, jin! hows life s14less? still in the market for a ninja?

*slider2828* · 10-07-2011, 10:39 AM

Add a course map bro.... I've seen car flips on turn 8 man.... hahaha... I tap the brakes and make sure I setup correctly, cause are stiffer suspension near the inside burm, there is a bump, gotta make sure you hit that corner well....

Turn 10 I just throw the car into it not braking too much cause it has a lot of grip.... Like you said it depends on car and grip level...

sw20>>s14 · 10-13-2011, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slider2828

Add a course map bro.... I've seen car flips on turn 8 man.... hahaha... I tap the brakes and make sure I setup correctly, cause are stiffer suspension near the inside burm, there is a bump, gotta make sure you hit that corner well....

Turn 10 I just throw the car into it not braking too much cause it has a lot of grip.... Like you said it depends on car and grip level...

Good idea on the course map. I hear ya, I guess I've been tempting fate and relying heavily on my Z1s for turn 8, lol. Still one of my all time favorite turns and the one where I catch people the most. Out of curiosity, what are some of your times with that beast, Ken?

Here is a video from last Friday; two 2:18 laps:

And a Ford Focus (great driver considering it was a rental car with just Advan A0s) following:

I am editing some more vids to upload shortly when I have time. I was only able to get a best of 2:17 with bypass that day. Suggestions, reactions, criticism, etc. are always welcomed!

Come on guys! I wanted to make a mini series of all the tracks we all go to. Sort of a go to tutorial or turn by turn run down so we can all help each other get faster!

Although there are an infinite number of variables, some hints/pointers are universal for all. Just a thought.

*slider2828* · 10-13-2011, 02:34 PM

I was doing about 2:10's on my car and slowing down on turn 8 with bypass....

I was outpacing an instructor driven cobra on slicks with z1 starspecs front/ RE01R rears, but by no means I am a good driver. But I think I have a very shitty alignment.

My friend who is a great driver, on his s2k CR with stock suspension, no engine mods except de-cat, header and intake with Stock Potenza RE070, run's low 2:09's.

*slider2828* · 10-13-2011, 03:02 PM

On your second vid, I can't tell what are you breaking points cause I can't hear your engine at all.... But in terms of corner setup:

Lap 1:
T1 your turn in is just a tad too early
T2 setup should be in the center of the track and progressively from middle to inside corner.
T3 should be neutral throttle to shift weight back to rear well, it looks like you are losing the front end (pushing) on the off camber
T5a Over the corkscrew, point more towards the center of the bottom of the hill
T9a Top of the hill before 1st backstraight, car should be a point towards the center of the top of the hill....
T10 Left Turn after 1st back straight,its a late apex turn, turn in is too early and you throw the car in hard......
T11 Final uphill corkscrew, you need to brake a LOT more.... all cars slow down lot there, but because you didn't brake enough you are not settled in or in position for the rear T12 and T13 therefore late on the throttle for the final back straight. When I approach T12 and T13, I treat 11 to 13 as a straight line then a left turn..... Kinda hard to explain here...

Lap 2:
T1 Turn in looked better.
T2 Turn in looked better, but I would setup center of T2 a little earlier. Braking While turning loses you a lot of time.
T3 Too close to the inside edge, should be 1 car length between you and the inside of the turn. Hard to tell from the vid though.
T10 Just stay more center at top of the hill if you can....
Everything else looked pretty good. 2nd lap was huge improvement to 1st lap.

One BIG THING I have to mention that these are just suggestions..... T1 and T2 and T3 and T10, I have a GT Wing on my car so I feel really planted. with a slight 0.2" Toe-In in my rear tire, it doesn't slide as much..... But I just commented based on my experience and what I saw..... so just take it as a grain of salt. Have fun!

sw20>>s14 · 10-13-2011, 04:37 PM

THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT, KEN! Much appreciated!

No worries either, it's always nice to hear it from someone else or hear new pointers.

T1 - I must have been listening to my brother who instructs too much because he always told me to turn in early, but maybe he doesn't realize my car is underpowered and I'm not carrying speeds that others do (I'm only at 90 on the front straight

). I have definitely thought about turning in later like suggested.

T2 - I've tried setting up, staying in the middle, and winding in; but it just understeers and "feels" slower than when I am in the inside "rotating" around the sweeper. Although, now that I have time recordings from footage, maybe I should try again and see once and for all which route is faster. T2 is also a turn that I usually close in on people so I don't know.

T3 - I think you're absolutely right. After seeing footage of my line for the first time, I think I am setting up for T4 (cone to apex; diagonally) way too early and hugging the right berm way too much. Almost fighting the car. I've noticed that as well so you're spot on!

T9a - I ALWAYS have an issue of consistency with this turn so don't mind my many approaches/trajectories to this turn, lol. I seem to be getting a little better at aiming and winding out naturally though.

T10 - I toss it the eff in like you mentioned so I noticed that if I turn in any later, I usually end up dangerously close to having a dirt drop (which has happened on many occasions). Maybe I should slow it down.

T11 - Here's where I have the biggest problems with as mentioned in my original post. The car is just so underpowered I don't know the best option.

If I brake hard like I'm supposed to, I have no more speed to carry off of. If I go in hot and early, it unders badly. If I go in hot and late, it overs and I miss my points. This one I'm going to have to experiment more with. The elevation change sure doesn't help the acceleration/power issues either. I will take your suggestion and let the car settle and see how it accelerates out.

T13 - I can imagine exactly what you're talking about, I'm going to have to definitely try that next time.

One things for sure though, I could use a little more power, lol. I would be a happy camper if I could break 2:14-15 as is.

See! This is what I'm talking about guys! This is what I want! I'm sure it can help countless others as well. Next month I'm going to Infineon for the first time, I'm sure something like this on Infineon would help and prepare me tremendously (*ahem ahem Ken*

)

By the way, whens the next time you're heading out, Ken? The car squared away yet?

sw20>>s14 · 10-13-2011, 04:40 PM

By the way, I'll post the 2:17 which was two laps after the second video (lap after the vid was slowed down from passing a Miata). Any hints to squeeze a second or two would be awesome!

*slider2828* · 10-13-2011, 05:53 PM

You'll need to post infineon laps and laguna laps.....

T1 I don't carry too much speed as I can't recover at those speeds if I am going to go off track. I am at like easily 150+ at the end of the front straight.

Yeah T9a there are definitely a LOT of lines to take.... I just take the safest and stay safe on T9, its very hard to recover there.....

I think you should post up your alignment specs and suspension specs.... I think that it will help you a lot. Read the other Thread http://zilvia.net/f/motorsports-skil...k-pics-28.html and read def's specs.... I don't have as much camber cause frankly we have a LOT of straights except infineon so it will be a little different but in terms of castor, toe, and traction rod length in the rear, its spot on to mine.... I run about 1.5 Degrees in the rear and try to be at 2 degrees in the front

Dun worry its not about power, its about setting up for the corner and how your car reacts. If you notice for T1 that you turn in later, the track opens up a lot and you won't get too close. When trying new lines take it extremely slow. Especially on that turn. Try those alignment specs and then post what you think, but yeah without driving your car, its hard.

S13's handle quite well, you just need to get your alignment in race spec. Its very important, that is why I say how your car handles and what I say, is different because your car handles very differently. This will get you 1 or 2 seconds off.

*!Zar!* · 10-14-2011, 12:45 PM

This makes me want to take my daily out to the track so I can see what type of times I can hit.

*slider2828* · 10-14-2011, 02:10 PM

Do It MEL!!!!!....

Blind · 10-30-2011, 11:55 PM

@slider2828 I've seen a GTR flip on the open track day, its nice to see 240sx beating Lotus in the straight (gives me a big smile everytime)

*slider2828* · 10-31-2011, 09:59 AM

A GTR? Probably turn 8....

10-05-2011, 07:10 PM	#1
sw20>>s14 Post Whore! Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: bay area Posts: 5,656 Trader Rating: (19) Feedback Score: 19 reviews	NORCAL: Thunderhill raceway Thought I'd be nice to have threads on various local tracks. Suggestions, line preferences, tips, pointers, Takumi secrets, anything! I am taking into consideration different cars having different approaches so just briefly list your set up. There is no right or wrong way so don't get butthurt over this. Who knows, maybe we can all learn a thing or two from each other. S14 with stock to low KA power, 90% full suspension, 90% full drivetrain, aggressive alignment, DOT street tires 245/40/17 on 9.5 Turn 2 - Setting up and braking in the middle at the last marker, turn in with no throttle input for a few seconds while passing the first sector of the apex, reapply throttle softly during the apex, and punch it to 3/4 throttle unwinding to the outer berm. Bypass - Set up in the middle, before the crown car is pointed to the right, aim for the black patch on the ground, punch it 3/4s. This Friday, I will try (based on suggestion from seasoned instructor) setting up to the far left and aiming for the same patch. There is supposed to be a steeper grade on the outside to carry more speed going down. Turn 7 - Blip the brake just to settle the car, not slowing down. Then carry all the speed to the runoff. Turn 8 - DON'T BRAKE! and unwind ALL THE WAY to the runoff. Turn 9 - Early apex, and aim for the right. Unwind back to the left and wind back in to the right for turn 10. Turn 10 - Brake to slow down, but not too much. As scary as it feels, carry all the speed and throw it in. Issues/problems: -I understeer on early apex and oversteer on late apex for turn 11 and my arms are crossed all the way with my left elbow jamming into my gut. I have a full bucket and a slim (1.25") QR Let's see where this goes, I expect a lot of you Norcal guys to chime in! __________________ s14\| y34\| 911 gts\| exige s\| 600rr\| r3\| 250r\| 85 girlfriend Last edited by sw20>>s14; 10-13-2011 at 04:44 PM.. Reason: track map added

10-05-2011, 07:15 PM	#2
CrOW Zilvia Junkie Join Date: May 2010 Location: Where you live? Posts: 490 Trader Rating: (3) Feedback Score: 3 reviews	What's up, bro! __________________

10-06-2011, 04:53 PM	#3
sw20>>s14 Post Whore! Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: bay area Posts: 5,656 Trader Rating: (19) Feedback Score: 19 reviews	howdy do, jin! hows life s14less? still in the market for a ninja? __________________ s14\| y34\| 911 gts\| exige s\| 600rr\| r3\| 250r\| 85 girlfriend

10-07-2011, 10:39 AM	#4
slider2828 Premium Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 5,824 Trader Rating: (13) Feedback Score: 13 reviews	Add a course map bro.... I've seen car flips on turn 8 man.... hahaha... I tap the brakes and make sure I setup correctly, cause are stiffer suspension near the inside burm, there is a bump, gotta make sure you hit that corner well.... Turn 10 I just throw the car into it not braking too much cause it has a lot of grip.... Like you said it depends on car and grip level... __________________ Turn and Burn!

10-13-2011, 02:34 PM	#6
slider2828 Premium Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 5,824 Trader Rating: (13) Feedback Score: 13 reviews	I was doing about 2:10's on my car and slowing down on turn 8 with bypass.... I was outpacing an instructor driven cobra on slicks with z1 starspecs front/ RE01R rears, but by no means I am a good driver. But I think I have a very shitty alignment. My friend who is a great driver, on his s2k CR with stock suspension, no engine mods except de-cat, header and intake with Stock Potenza RE070, run's low 2:09's. __________________ Turn and Burn!

10-13-2011, 03:02 PM	#7
slider2828 Premium Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 5,824 Trader Rating: (13) Feedback Score: 13 reviews	On your second vid, I can't tell what are you breaking points cause I can't hear your engine at all.... But in terms of corner setup: Lap 1: T1 your turn in is just a tad too early T2 setup should be in the center of the track and progressively from middle to inside corner. T3 should be neutral throttle to shift weight back to rear well, it looks like you are losing the front end (pushing) on the off camber T5a Over the corkscrew, point more towards the center of the bottom of the hill T9a Top of the hill before 1st backstraight, car should be a point towards the center of the top of the hill.... T10 Left Turn after 1st back straight,its a late apex turn, turn in is too early and you throw the car in hard...... T11 Final uphill corkscrew, you need to brake a LOT more.... all cars slow down lot there, but because you didn't brake enough you are not settled in or in position for the rear T12 and T13 therefore late on the throttle for the final back straight. When I approach T12 and T13, I treat 11 to 13 as a straight line then a left turn..... Kinda hard to explain here... Lap 2: T1 Turn in looked better. T2 Turn in looked better, but I would setup center of T2 a little earlier. Braking While turning loses you a lot of time. T3 Too close to the inside edge, should be 1 car length between you and the inside of the turn. Hard to tell from the vid though. T10 Just stay more center at top of the hill if you can.... Everything else looked pretty good. 2nd lap was huge improvement to 1st lap. One BIG THING I have to mention that these are just suggestions..... T1 and T2 and T3 and T10, I have a GT Wing on my car so I feel really planted. with a slight 0.2" Toe-In in my rear tire, it doesn't slide as much..... But I just commented based on my experience and what I saw..... so just take it as a grain of salt. Have fun! __________________ Turn and Burn!

10-13-2011, 04:37 PM	#8
sw20>>s14 Post Whore! Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: bay area Posts: 5,656 Trader Rating: (19) Feedback Score: 19 reviews	THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT, KEN! Much appreciated! No worries either, it's always nice to hear it from someone else or hear new pointers. T1 - I must have been listening to my brother who instructs too much because he always told me to turn in early, but maybe he doesn't realize my car is underpowered and I'm not carrying speeds that others do (I'm only at 90 on the front straight ). I have definitely thought about turning in later like suggested. T2 - I've tried setting up, staying in the middle, and winding in; but it just understeers and "feels" slower than when I am in the inside "rotating" around the sweeper. Although, now that I have time recordings from footage, maybe I should try again and see once and for all which route is faster. T2 is also a turn that I usually close in on people so I don't know. T3 - I think you're absolutely right. After seeing footage of my line for the first time, I think I am setting up for T4 (cone to apex; diagonally) way too early and hugging the right berm way too much. Almost fighting the car. I've noticed that as well so you're spot on! T9a - I ALWAYS have an issue of consistency with this turn so don't mind my many approaches/trajectories to this turn, lol. I seem to be getting a little better at aiming and winding out naturally though. T10 - I toss it the eff in like you mentioned so I noticed that if I turn in any later, I usually end up dangerously close to having a dirt drop (which has happened on many occasions). Maybe I should slow it down. T11 - Here's where I have the biggest problems with as mentioned in my original post. The car is just so underpowered I don't know the best option. If I brake hard like I'm supposed to, I have no more speed to carry off of. If I go in hot and early, it unders badly. If I go in hot and late, it overs and I miss my points. This one I'm going to have to experiment more with. The elevation change sure doesn't help the acceleration/power issues either. I will take your suggestion and let the car settle and see how it accelerates out. T13 - I can imagine exactly what you're talking about, I'm going to have to definitely try that next time. One things for sure though, I could use a little more power, lol. I would be a happy camper if I could break 2:14-15 as is. See! This is what I'm talking about guys! This is what I want! I'm sure it can help countless others as well. Next month I'm going to Infineon for the first time, I'm sure something like this on Infineon would help and prepare me tremendously (ahem ahem Ken ) By the way, whens the next time you're heading out, Ken? The car squared away yet? __________________ s14\| y34\| 911 gts\| exige s\| 600rr\| r3\| 250r\| 85 girlfriend

10-13-2011, 04:40 PM	#9
sw20>>s14 Post Whore! Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: bay area Posts: 5,656 Trader Rating: (19) Feedback Score: 19 reviews	By the way, I'll post the 2:17 which was two laps after the second video (lap after the vid was slowed down from passing a Miata). Any hints to squeeze a second or two would be awesome! __________________ s14\| y34\| 911 gts\| exige s\| 600rr\| r3\| 250r\| 85 girlfriend

10-13-2011, 05:53 PM	#10
slider2828 Premium Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 5,824 Trader Rating: (13) Feedback Score: 13 reviews	You'll need to post infineon laps and laguna laps..... T1 I don't carry too much speed as I can't recover at those speeds if I am going to go off track. I am at like easily 150+ at the end of the front straight. Yeah T9a there are definitely a LOT of lines to take.... I just take the safest and stay safe on T9, its very hard to recover there..... I think you should post up your alignment specs and suspension specs.... I think that it will help you a lot. Read the other Thread http://zilvia.net/f/motorsports-skil...k-pics-28.html and read def's specs.... I don't have as much camber cause frankly we have a LOT of straights except infineon so it will be a little different but in terms of castor, toe, and traction rod length in the rear, its spot on to mine.... I run about 1.5 Degrees in the rear and try to be at 2 degrees in the front Dun worry its not about power, its about setting up for the corner and how your car reacts. If you notice for T1 that you turn in later, the track opens up a lot and you won't get too close. When trying new lines take it extremely slow. Especially on that turn. Try those alignment specs and then post what you think, but yeah without driving your car, its hard. S13's handle quite well, you just need to get your alignment in race spec. Its very important, that is why I say how your car handles and what I say, is different because your car handles very differently. This will get you 1 or 2 seconds off. __________________ Turn and Burn!

10-14-2011, 12:45 PM	#11
!Zar! Premium Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: North Korea Posts: 14,576 Trader Rating: (27) Feedback Score: 27 reviews	This makes me want to take my daily out to the track so I can see what type of times I can hit. __________________

10-14-2011, 02:10 PM	#12
slider2828 Premium Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 5,824 Trader Rating: (13) Feedback Score: 13 reviews	Do It MEL!!!!!.... __________________ Turn and Burn!

10-30-2011, 11:55 PM	#13
Blind Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: CA Posts: 1 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	@slider2828 I've seen a GTR flip on the open track day, its nice to see 240sx beating Lotus in the straight (gives me a big smile everytime)

10-31-2011, 09:59 AM	#14
slider2828 Premium Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 5,824 Trader Rating: (13) Feedback Score: 13 reviews	A GTR? Probably turn 8.... __________________ Turn and Burn!

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode