Pollution Control Removal - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

nismojunkie · 12-09-2004, 10:00 PM

Hey guys,

What advice can you guys give me on what pollution control equipment can and cannot be removed while not having to modify the ECU and so on.
I'm looking for some "free power" but still want decent driveability.
For example, do you need the carbon cannister, etc.

I'm also removing the A/C since the numbnut I bought the car from vented it all to the atmosphere. I'll reinstall the A/C when I have some extra cash but may like the extra power in the mean time.

Ritz S14 · 12-09-2004, 10:03 PM

If you ask most the people on this board about removing the emission stuff.. It's not even worth the time and hassal. Especially if your car isn't going on an extreme diet.

SilviaSativa · 12-09-2004, 10:17 PM

I removed emissions junk since the engine was out of the car and I forgot to label vacuum hoses.
Don't expect much, frees a little space in the engine bay though

AKADriver · 12-09-2004, 10:43 PM

There's basically no "free power" to be had this way. Leave it in.

nismojunkie · 12-10-2004, 02:30 PM

Thanks guys

I'm really wanting to clean up the bay as well, so even tho' I may not see an improvement in power, it'd be nice to have less "crap" cluttering up the car.

PinkPanther · 12-10-2004, 02:35 PM

Move your battery to the spare well in the trunk, get a short aftermarket intake, remove A/C, install electric fans and relay.

autobahNESSA · 12-10-2004, 04:59 PM

buy some simple green and spray down your engine bay, hose it off.

will look much cleaner. imo

thx247 · 12-10-2004, 05:34 PM

Sucks that you would just remove the emissions equipment just because it looks better.

idlafie · 12-10-2004, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nismojunkie

Hey guys,

What advice can you guys give me on what pollution control equipment can and cannot be removed while not having to modify the ECU and so on.
I'm looking for some "free power" but still want decent driveability.
For example, do you need the carbon cannister, etc.

Stuff taken off the internet for reasons why you might want to keep your pollution control equipment

Reason #1....engine design...
It's true the first primitive emissions control pieces added to engines in the late 1960s and early 1970s detracted from both performance and driveability, so removing them did make the cars run better. But that was only true because those engines were never designed with emissions controls in mind (having been first designed, for the most part, in the 1950s).

In contrast, late model cars and trucks (those built since the mid-1980s) were all designed from the get-go with emissions equipment as an integral part of their drivetrains. Removal/tampering of any of these integrated systems negatively affects driveability -- so no one does it anymore (at least, no one who isn't a complete idiot).

Reason #2....stop detonation & pinging...
THE EGR valve bleeds a small amount of exhaust into the intake manifold to reduce excessive temperatures, which, in turn, reduces NOx, the nastiest of the emissions. Engine timing and the fuel mixture are calibrated for the proper operation of this device, which only comes into play at cruising speeds. Disabling it can cause pinging and rough running if the engine is not retimed to compensate for its absence.

Reason #3....prevent your gasoline from evaporating...
CHARCOAL CANISTERS are used in conjunction with "sealed" gasoline tanks. A parked vehicle gives off fumes, which, if not trapped, float off into the atmosphere. This canister absorbs fumes and stores them until you start the engine. Vacuum then purges the canister, and the cycle begins again. This device does NOT detract from a vehicle's operation and should be maintained for no other reason than it helps keep your garage from filling with fumes on a hot day after you park your vehicle. Remember...gasoline fumes are HIGHLY voilatile....collect enough of them in an enclosed space & you might blow up your car!! Gas fumes and an open flame are NOT a good match...BOOM!!

Reason #4....to burn off your unburnt gas
The function of a catalytic converter is to burn fuel vapors that were not completely consumed in the engine. As such, it may be considered one of the most important pollution control devices on your vehicle.

And...the probably the most important of all....Reason #5...
The United States Environmental Protection Agency and the Clean Air Act passed by Congress...
http://www.epa.gov/oar/caa/contents.html
Get caught with missing emissions control devices and be prepared to pay some $$$$ in fines. Enforcement & Compliance varies from state to state though...most of the time law enforcement agencies get stuck with this task. Whether they do it or not, that's another story....but they can if they want to.

Anyhow, just so you know...reasons why to keep your emissions control devices....choice is up to you...

ID

*Vatche* · 12-11-2004, 12:59 AM

well some people who are gonna pay fines anyway, dont really care about a catalytic convertor

nismojunkie · 12-11-2004, 02:34 AM

omg that sux, I just typed about 1/2 hour response to all you dudes and bumped the ESC key and all gone...faaack...

nismojunkie · 12-12-2004, 11:29 PM

OK, Finally got some time to catch up...

PinkPanther,

I will have more thank one battery in the car and naturally I'll have them both in the rear then.
I think I like the Injen intake, What intake do you use/like and why?
I will also be removing the A/C, but only because the moron before me vented it all into the atmosphere.
I do have plans for some electric fans. Do you know of any OEM fans that could fit the width of the radiator. I'd like to not have to spend $3-400 for aftermarket elec fans. I'm also using a failsafe 170 degree thermostat and the entire engine as well as bolt on parts (ie: water pump, starter, alternator, all new) is being rebuilt.
I read somewhere where you can modify an aftermarket elec water pump to work on our pumps. Know anything about that?

BayArea240,

The entire engine bay has been stripped clean. I have som rust repair to do underneath the radiator and also have to remove the A/C condenser. Funny how much crap there is in just the A/C and how much weight.
I will be cleaning/fixing the engine bay and then painting it the intended body color while its all apart. The car will be painted a very bright blue. Kinda like the CALSONIC skyline blue. Black accessories.

thx247,

I'm not wanting to remove the emissions just for looks. I'm not gonna say the looks hasn't crossed my mind, but the desicion to do it was power based. less crap, better breathing.
To be honest, I thought a lot about it after you wrote that. I will do a bit more research to see what equipment I feel I can remove and still feel a little green

That IS one of the things that pulled me to import cars. Big performance, good gas mileage, new tech, less pollution. Go fast and stay (somewhat at least) green

idlafie,

Reason#1 - Point taken. However, you know as well as I do the pollution equipment drains on the system to some degree in the form of slowing the pump, that is our engine down. How significantly is what I don't know.

Reason#2,3,4 - Wasn't intending on removing major pollution components that affect driveability. I plan on driving the car as my main vehicle. I was however planning on a high flow cat. I need to keep the vehicle on the good side of the law somewhat since I'm not sure where I will be living in the next couple years.

Reason#5 - no comment.

Overall, ty for the time you put into your response. Thats why I'm here, positive minds with good advice, knowledgable people, the oppurtunity to help and hang out with car friends

sr20detman,

Heh...now now...keep it on the track

Thank you all for your time.
Anyone have anymore info on;
1. What components are in our car that are pollution control
2. What are their exact functions?
3. Is driveability affected by removal?
4. How large of an impact does removal have on emissions?

This could be very informative...

thx247 · 12-13-2004, 12:22 AM

How large an impact removing the smog gear would be hard to measure unless you could get the car on a smog test. That would be interesting to see.

The carbon canister is there for fuel vapor iirc. The EGR is there to cool the exhaust temps and reduce NOX formation. You really should keep that even if it costs some power. I don't recall anyone mentioning how much power removing that makes, left all stock and just removing it I doubt it would be very much if any. It pumps burnt exhaust into your intake, since its noncombustable it just fills up space. Removing it and putting more fuel air into the piston chamber would require a retune of some order to really maximize the benifits I imagine.

Isn't most power on the KA made up through the exhaust system?

nismojunkie · 12-13-2004, 12:38 AM

Yeah, I wish I would have had a chance to put it on a sniffer before I started the rebuild, that info would have been cool to have while tuning.

I plan on keeping the carbon canister and egr systems of course.

I will likely have my head ported by a local race shop famous for mustangs. Tha 24E has larger exhaust valves than intake valves, but then there are two intakes. 7mm and 8mm stems.

I plan on taking full advantage of the exhaust side. header and 2.5" all the way out.

The flow will be improved by porting/gasket matching/polishing from the intake all the way thru the head to the exhaust. I however sad it is, don't have the cash for bigger valves right now tho.

PinkPanther · 12-13-2004, 01:14 AM

I think I like the Injen intake, What intake do you use/like and why?
I have an AEM short ram, Why? because it was free from one of my friends and it matches my paint. It changes intake sound slightly and removes the rediculous factory intake system, so i'm pleased with it.

I do have plans for some electric fans. Do you know of any OEM fans that could fit the width of the radiator. I'd like to not have to spend $3-400 for aftermarket elec fans. I'm also using a failsafe 170 degree thermostat and the entire engine as well as bolt on parts (ie: water pump, starter, alternator, all new) is being rebuilt.

Enter "electric fans" into the forum search and you will find a ton of shit about this. Ka24 altima fans are a very common junkyard install.

I read somewhere where you can modify an aftermarket elec water pump to work on our pumps. Know anything about that?

I wouldn't alter the water pump unless you are hell bent on doing so.

12-11-2004, 02:34 AM	#11
nismojunkie Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ohio Age: 48 Posts: 26 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	omg that sux, I just typed about 1/2 hour response to all you dudes and bumped the ESC key and all gone...faaack... __________________ _________________________________________ Curt Kuepfer A.K.A. NISMOjunkie 89 Pignose SE Coupe Best Buy Mobile Installer, Ohio nismojunkie _________________________________________

12-12-2004, 11:29 PM	#12
nismojunkie Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ohio Age: 48 Posts: 26 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	OK, Finally got some time to catch up... PinkPanther, I will have more thank one battery in the car and naturally I'll have them both in the rear then. I think I like the Injen intake, What intake do you use/like and why? I will also be removing the A/C, but only because the moron before me vented it all into the atmosphere. I do have plans for some electric fans. Do you know of any OEM fans that could fit the width of the radiator. I'd like to not have to spend $3-400 for aftermarket elec fans. I'm also using a failsafe 170 degree thermostat and the entire engine as well as bolt on parts (ie: water pump, starter, alternator, all new) is being rebuilt. I read somewhere where you can modify an aftermarket elec water pump to work on our pumps. Know anything about that? BayArea240, The entire engine bay has been stripped clean. I have som rust repair to do underneath the radiator and also have to remove the A/C condenser. Funny how much crap there is in just the A/C and how much weight. I will be cleaning/fixing the engine bay and then painting it the intended body color while its all apart. The car will be painted a very bright blue. Kinda like the CALSONIC skyline blue. Black accessories. thx247, I'm not wanting to remove the emissions just for looks. I'm not gonna say the looks hasn't crossed my mind, but the desicion to do it was power based. less crap, better breathing. To be honest, I thought a lot about it after you wrote that. I will do a bit more research to see what equipment I feel I can remove and still feel a little green That IS one of the things that pulled me to import cars. Big performance, good gas mileage, new tech, less pollution. Go fast and stay (somewhat at least) green idlafie, Reason#1 - Point taken. However, you know as well as I do the pollution equipment drains on the system to some degree in the form of slowing the pump, that is our engine down. How significantly is what I don't know. Reason#2,3,4 - Wasn't intending on removing major pollution components that affect driveability. I plan on driving the car as my main vehicle. I was however planning on a high flow cat. I need to keep the vehicle on the good side of the law somewhat since I'm not sure where I will be living in the next couple years. Reason#5 - no comment. Overall, ty for the time you put into your response. Thats why I'm here, positive minds with good advice, knowledgable people, the oppurtunity to help and hang out with car friends sr20detman, Heh...now now...keep it on the track Thank you all for your time. Anyone have anymore info on; 1. What components are in our car that are pollution control 2. What are their exact functions? 3. Is driveability affected by removal? 4. How large of an impact does removal have on emissions? This could be very informative... __________________ _________________________________________ Curt Kuepfer A.K.A. NISMOjunkie 89 Pignose SE Coupe Best Buy Mobile Installer, Ohio nismojunkie _________________________________________

12-13-2004, 12:38 AM	#14
nismojunkie Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ohio Age: 48 Posts: 26 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Yeah, I wish I would have had a chance to put it on a sniffer before I started the rebuild, that info would have been cool to have while tuning. I plan on keeping the carbon canister and egr systems of course. I will likely have my head ported by a local race shop famous for mustangs. Tha 24E has larger exhaust valves than intake valves, but then there are two intakes. 7mm and 8mm stems. I plan on taking full advantage of the exhaust side. header and 2.5" all the way out. The flow will be improved by porting/gasket matching/polishing from the intake all the way thru the head to the exhaust. I however sad it is, don't have the cash for bigger valves right now tho. __________________ _________________________________________ Curt Kuepfer A.K.A. NISMOjunkie 89 Pignose SE Coupe Best Buy Mobile Installer, Ohio nismojunkie _________________________________________

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12-09-2004, 10:00 PM	#1
nismojunkie Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ohio Age: 48 Posts: 26 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Pollution Control Removal Hey guys, What advice can you guys give me on what pollution control equipment can and cannot be removed while not having to modify the ECU and so on. I'm looking for some "free power" but still want decent driveability. For example, do you need the carbon cannister, etc. I'm also removing the A/C since the numbnut I bought the car from vented it all to the atmosphere. I'll reinstall the A/C when I have some extra cash but may like the extra power in the mean time. __________________ _________________________________________ Curt Kuepfer A.K.A. NISMOjunkie 89 Pignose SE Coupe Best Buy Mobile Installer, Ohio nismojunkie _________________________________________

12-09-2004, 10:03 PM	#2
Ritz S14 Post Whore! Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: C A L I F O R N I A Age: 39 Posts: 3,586 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	If you ask most the people on this board about removing the emission stuff.. It's not even worth the time and hassal. Especially if your car isn't going on an extreme diet.

12-09-2004, 10:17 PM	#3
SilviaSativa Zilvia Junkie Join Date: May 2003 Location: Honolulu Age: 34 Posts: 441 Trader Rating: (6) Feedback Score: 6 reviews	I removed emissions junk since the engine was out of the car and I forgot to label vacuum hoses. Don't expect much, frees a little space in the engine bay though __________________

12-09-2004, 10:43 PM	#4
AKADriver Post Whore! Join Date: May 2002 Location: Springfield, VA Age: 39 Posts: 3,112 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	There's basically no "free power" to be had this way. Leave it in.

12-10-2004, 02:30 PM	#5
nismojunkie Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ohio Age: 48 Posts: 26 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Thanks guys I'm really wanting to clean up the bay as well, so even tho' I may not see an improvement in power, it'd be nice to have less "crap" cluttering up the car. __________________ _________________________________________ Curt Kuepfer A.K.A. NISMOjunkie 89 Pignose SE Coupe Best Buy Mobile Installer, Ohio nismojunkie _________________________________________

12-10-2004, 02:35 PM	#6
PinkPanther Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Johnston City, IL Age: 35 Posts: 372 Trader Rating: (3) Feedback Score: 3 reviews	Move your battery to the spare well in the trunk, get a short aftermarket intake, remove A/C, install electric fans and relay.

12-10-2004, 04:59 PM	#7
autobahNESSA Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Milpitas/Irvine, CA Posts: 1,257 Trader Rating: (3) Feedback Score: 3 reviews	buy some simple green and spray down your engine bay, hose it off. will look much cleaner. imo

12-10-2004, 05:34 PM	#8
thx247 Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: bay area Posts: 1,455 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Sucks that you would just remove the emissions equipment just because it looks better.

12-13-2004, 12:22 AM	#13
thx247 Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: bay area Posts: 1,455 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	How large an impact removing the smog gear would be hard to measure unless you could get the car on a smog test. That would be interesting to see. The carbon canister is there for fuel vapor iirc. The EGR is there to cool the exhaust temps and reduce NOX formation. You really should keep that even if it costs some power. I don't recall anyone mentioning how much power removing that makes, left all stock and just removing it I doubt it would be very much if any. It pumps burnt exhaust into your intake, since its noncombustable it just fills up space. Removing it and putting more fuel air into the piston chamber would require a retune of some order to really maximize the benifits I imagine. Isn't most power on the KA made up through the exhaust system?

12-13-2004, 01:14 AM	#15
PinkPanther Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Johnston City, IL Age: 35 Posts: 372 Trader Rating: (3) Feedback Score: 3 reviews	I think I like the Injen intake, What intake do you use/like and why? I have an AEM short ram, Why? because it was free from one of my friends and it matches my paint. It changes intake sound slightly and removes the rediculous factory intake system, so i'm pleased with it. I do have plans for some electric fans. Do you know of any OEM fans that could fit the width of the radiator. I'd like to not have to spend $3-400 for aftermarket elec fans. I'm also using a failsafe 170 degree thermostat and the entire engine as well as bolt on parts (ie: water pump, starter, alternator, all new) is being rebuilt. Enter "electric fans" into the forum search and you will find a ton of shit about this. Ka24 altima fans are a very common junkyard install. I read somewhere where you can modify an aftermarket elec water pump to work on our pumps. Know anything about that? I wouldn't alter the water pump unless you are hell bent on doing so.