omgwtf

I have been fighting this thing since i got it put in the ca it hasnt been right since day one! its been 3 years mostly due to the military moving me around, but ive never gotten to really drive my car and its really starting to get to me. Now that my rant is done, i am trying to fix the car wanting to run rich when i hit the gas. it will idle around 15:1 jumping around erratically but when i hit the gas even under no load it goes full rich. ive checked vacuum lines 100 times i hooked up an air compressor and found a few leaks in my intercooler piping yesterday and fixed those. ive put 3 diff MAFS on the car with no help, ive set fuel pressure the correct way, ive set tps, ive set timing. IDK WHAT THIS THINGS PROBLEM IS?!?!? i am running nistune, 444cc inj, n60 or n62 MAFS i have both, nismo adj FPR, gt28rs, FMIC, Greddy type S, CP forged pistons, fully rebuilt with all nissan gaskets 2000 miles ago, AEM UEGO wideband, knock sensor bypassed. Thats all i can think of at the moment. I really want to figure this thing out if not im gonna use the engine for target practice im getting fed up with it and go SR. it will hesistae so bad i can barely drive it. i pulled injectors the other day to look at them but had to sttop mid way and put them back in could my o-ring have started leaking air into the manifold? or do i have a leaky injector ( i wouldnt think bc the idle is on the leaner side) ANYONE give me what ever you have flaming or not i dont care at this point i just want it fixed.

babyjesus

Though i can't say this is the problem with your car. I was experienceing these exact symptoms. Turned out it was my CTS (coolant temp sensor). Idk if CA's have them. but mine was failing and causing the car to sputter under load, run extremely rish, and just be overall stupid. changed it out (15 bucks) and boom , no more problems. After having read up about it, a lot of people have cts failure.

hope this helps!

-best, babyjesus

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omgwtf

i forgot to mention that i changed it with one for a KA like a month ago. i assume its good it seems to be reading correct when looking at my gauges in nistune

babyjesus

on ka there are two, one that goes to the ecu, and the other to your gauges. the one that's to the ecu monitors fuel levels according to temp, the other just reads temp.

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kamilitaryman

Yup, def check your coolant sensor. Im assuming you're using the CA18DET ecu? If so, is it giving you any CELs?

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400HP KA24DET in progress

g35gabby

where is your CAS set to? is it retarding timing causing too much causing the over fueling? Are you sure the timing is set correctly and not off a tooth or 2?

What does it do when it drives down the block? any burps or hiccups?

Have you checked the plugs and seen how if it is rich on all cylinders or maybe just 1 plug is fouled? What are you using to monitor your A/F? wideband?

I would get a fresh CTS, they are known to even cause issues of the car not starting because they are so picky. Given that you had leaks, your plugs maybe a tad fouled already, so might consider a fresh set too and check those that come out for their condition. This will tell you a lot and likely where to go next.

GL dude, these are hard motors to work on....

Ps has it ever run "right"?

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omgwtf

CAS is set dead center timing light confirms 15* BTDC, timing is on the mark, plugs have been running rich so im going to change them out for new ones, cts is the correct one for the ecu not the temp gauge ( i got the 2 pin one), im using AEM UEGO wideband with digital gauge, and no it has never really run "right" to me it a frustrating guy.

**Update** i foufn that i didnt burn my last MAF change into the ECU and i did this now it runs a lot better than before but still missing a bit under cruise, waiting for it to cool down then gonna change the plugs and see what that does. does anyone know how to use acceleration increase for fuel mapping on nistune. it goes lean when you blip the throttle to get ready to let the clutch out before you take off from a light. everywhere else seems decent, at least better than before.

omgwtf

oh yeah and no codes when im in consult

ultimateirving

just make sure when u drop the new plugs in that u gap them properly, depending on how much boost your running. for example, i run 16psi on e85, using bkr7e-11 and gapped my plugs to .025, i can take it to 7k without any hesitation/misses.

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omgwtf

thanks for the replies. i got 6's bc of all my running rich i dont wanna foul out another set. when i get it sorted ill run a 7 heat range and im planning on around 17ish psi. how do you know where to gap them for optimal performance?

ultimateirving

trial and error haha! i ran my plugs at all sizes, but at 16psi, .025 doesnt blow out, and it doesnt misfire, so im keeping it there

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omgwtf

ill try it around there what turbo are you running? and have you had any issues with the diaphragm on your type s? ive seen a lot of ppl have issues with them leaking and i love the sound and i dont wanna lose the type s when it dies. i know its off topic....

ultimateirving

im running s14 t28, so nothing fancy. i took out one spring from my type s because thats what all the evo/subi guys do, and so far no boost leaks =)

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Croustibat

TBH plug gap too small does not make you lose that much power, so better have it a bit smaller than necessary. I think i gapped mine to 0.6mm. GET 7's though, standard ones, irridium are just a waste of money.

I got a CA and a nistune too, running e85 and gt2560r turbo.

The ECU automatically enrich when you go full throttle for a short period of time. In fact, it just jumps to the rightmost column on your fuel map (but it does not show it on nistune). But your problem is not there... i think you did not set injector latency properly. Try a bigger value.

omgwtf

thanks for the input! I got the latency from matt from nistune its set at 1040 for 444cc injectors. so i shouldnt mess with accel increase fuel at all?
what else would cause it to go lean when i come on throttle after idling?

omgwtf

so now i notice that when it warms up it wants to idle super lean like 17-18 to 1 ive got nistune running the stock jdm map with just 444ccs and n60 mafs changed with latency changed to 1040 any ideas?

g35gabby

That's way lean. what is our boost gauge read?

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omgwtf

17-18ish in/hg sometimes itll dip to 15-16 if the idle goes below 900

g35gabby

What do you have the idle set at? it should be 800

Sounds like you still have some leaks to clean up. 18-24 is a good healthy idle.

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omgwtf

It's set at 900. You think when I pulled the injectors out the o-ring might have gotten unseated when it gets hot and cause a leak?

g35gabby

could be. seals are cheap enough to replace....

We rushed on my brother in laws mach 1 and tore up 2 seals putting his fuel rail back on so with the limited space the CA has I would think it would be extremely easy to do.

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omgwtf

going out now to replaced the seals. i will keep you updated on what happens

omgwtf

so i changed the o rings out and started it up and its still acting the same. i sprayed some maf cleaner around the injectors and found that it makes the idle change so its leaking still. i guess im just gonna get new injectors with the o rings and see if that changes anything.

omgwtf

800cc deatschwerks are in the mail. anyone know if these come with o-rings?

g35gabby

if it is the rail. I have spare OE rail sitting in one of my spare bedrooms if you need it.

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omgwtf

nah its where the injectors go into the manifold, thanks though. i wanted to have headroom with my power goal of 300-350 so i figured why not im going to get these anyways. hopefully this will fix my issue. BTW i used KA24E injectors and they look exactly like the factory o rings, same part #s. so in theory they should work. i just dont know if these are the correct injectors they came with the motor i was told they are 444ccs out of a rb26dett but i havent been able to track them down with the numbers on the injectors.

Croustibat

1040µs for 444 is meh... if it is the real value, that is no good.
I use 510 and got a long 820µs. I will be using 1000cc sometimes near, when i finish working on the chassis.

Did you check your fuel filter too ?

I really am interested in how you resolve this. I had somewhat the same problem, and just "fixed" it by using bigger values in the fuel map.

I know there was a bug with the nistune, with the temp enrichment map not beeing resized when using the injector resize button. I dont know if it was fixed since. Maybe you were still in the "not hot enough" zone before and the ECU kept adding fuel, while now you got out of that zone and the ECU does not use the cold enrichment table ?

injector latency matters a lot when they nearly dont have to open, after that it is the K value. If it gets lean at idle / no load / blip, try a higher latency value, if it gets too rich lower it. But imho 1040 is already way too much, it should not be there.

Are you sure about the AFR sensor / gauge ? Do you have a spare resistor box ?

Also, you could try contacting matt on nistune forum.

Good luck.

g35gabby

ka24e injectors are like 260s If memory serves(not sure if they are high or low impedance, but I would imagine they are high given I don't remember there being a resistor pack on the KA-E). OE CA injectors are 370s and low impedance.

any hobby shop should be able to flow test your injectors and tell you what they are rated for. they can also tell you if there is a difference in rates as far as one firing more/less fuel than the other.

560s out of boosted RX7s work, or as you are doing, you can order bigger injectors.

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omgwtf

i havent checked the filter i would think that would be good seeing as it idles ok until hot. im still learning nistune so im at the very basics of it i dont want to mess too much with tuning until i have it at least idling OK. also im using the ca18de ecu but i let matt know that when i ordered my nistune setup. i installed the board myself. ive been using the jdm base map with just changing the MAFS and injector size thenmessing with latency to try and iron out idle up to this point.after these injectors come i can take a log and send it to you if you dont mind and maybe you can spot something my untrained eye doesnt. i assume the wideband is working correctly i havent verified on the dyno yet i want the car to be halfway right before i even come in there with it, its kind of embarrassing to have a jacked up car and try and get tuning done on it and have them point out all my mistakes.

thanks for all the replies guys!!


and gabby i meant to say i used the injector o-rings from the ka24e not the injectors hah my bad.

hopefully ill get good results from the new 800cs ones they should be here tomm

Croustibat

I dont know about the CA18DE ECU, euro S13 have a CA18DET as standard

it may be a part of the problem. Did you compare both ECUs pinouts ? IF they are the same then it should be ok though.

one of the problem (imho) of the ca18det ECU, and probably of the ca18de one, is that they have a saturated injector driver and use peak and hold injectors. That is somewhat "a trick" that causes problems when going with bigger injectors. Basically it leads to higher injector latency, and it is proportionnal to the injector size.

If you can get saturated injectors ( high Z) that fit the ramp, it would work better. I plan to do exactly that. You just need to remove dropping resistor and its ok. DONT remove the dropping resistor with low Z injectors or you will fry both injectors and ECU.

For now, try to clean the surfaces where injectors meet rail and manifold, lubricate injector seals when installing them back, and try not tearing them.

FYI DSM injectors work very well, their pint is a bit shorter so they are even easier to fit. And they are 510cc at 3bar, so something like 480 at CA18DET fuel pressure.

Once you are sure about a leakless injector setup, you can tune. Here is what i do to get a good latency and K value when changing injectors:

1/ get the car to warm up and keep idle. Even if you have to set idle higher.

2/load a fuel map with 14:1 commanded AFR for the lower left quarter, 13:1 for upper left and lower right, 12:1 for upper right.

Adjust latency at idle so you get the desired 14:1 . Then apply throttle so you are still in the lower left corner of the fuel map. You should still be at the same 14:1, if you arent adjust latency and K value (by using the rescale injector tool and checking the resize TTP min/max checkbox, do NOT change K value by hand. You can do that easily by using your current K value in the "new injector size" and the desired K value in the "old injector size").

That should give you a proper latency / K value.

Try blipping the throttle and see how it reacts. Lean ? More latency, less K. Rich ? Less latency, more K.

Once this is done, go driving (these values are quite safe, and if you are using oem timing map it wont matter), and note when your wideband tells you dont have the desired value. Also, one very important thing to do is copy fuel and timing value from normal to knock map. The knock sensor is not efficient and you can bounce from normal to knock map without knock. Most CA tuners just try to disable it, either by copying the maps, or by bypassing the sensor (1K or 500 ohm resistor at the ecu pins, i cant remember. It makes the ECU believe the knock sensor is here and everything is well).

Basically, the more load is applies, the more the K value is important. The less load, the more latency is important.

You may not get an ideal latency / K value, and that is the saturated driver and low Z + resistor box combo problem. At that point, forget about AFR view of the nistune fuel map, you cant really use it.