vrooompssssht

low has nothing to do with it

running that much tire he should probably be running somethign around 700f/600r springs.. if not more

they dont travel much.

blackflag_Rms13

Talk to AceInHole, he's running a set up that's more or less on par with what you're considering. 18x10 +30 at all 4 corners, with a 19mm spacer up front and 285/30/R18 tires...

yokotas13

yes they do still sell them, tein has a few nad jic i think.
I know im right, i dont need your approval for it. i know what keeps me from rubbing when im all the way down, and what happens when i dont do it.

but thanks anyways!

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nlzmo400r

You assume way too much. Where did you read that I didn't have an upgraded differential? Anyway, I currently run an s15 helical differential, and my suspension is set up 'PROPERLY'. Thanks for your input anyway.

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nlzmo400r

see im sure the chassis has more grip left in it. Also, my friends car is set up beautifully spring rates are dead on, and the dampers are excellent (thanks for calling them dampers and not 'shocks'). And i thuoght a 255 or so would be all I would ever need for my power level too, but its just not. My s13 weighed in at 2450lb without driver. Just all in all, need a little more rubber. So back to my original question, with 30mm and 50mm overfendersm wuold a 10.5(+0) with 285/30 Rcomp fit ?

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KA24DESOneThree

First things first: All the competitive time attack S15s in J-land rock clutch-types. If you get any sort of lift going, the helical starts to lose effectiveness. I had an S15 helical and sold it before I installed it because I don't need to deal with corner exit oversteer. It's been replaced by an ATS carbon 1.5-way for equal smoothness with better overall traction.

boxy- We've done this dance a few times before. You're blowing ignorance out from the spittle surrounding your rabid lips. Before you pounce on someone, I'd recommend finding out whether or not they'd eat you alive. Also, CCW Classics in 17x9.5 weigh 19lbs in race trim and 21lbs in street trim.

nIsmo400r- Those tires are pretty squished on 8.5s, so you've got sidewall flex rearing its ugly head. They also have a reputation for not dealing with heat well. Have you considered running 245/40R17 BFG G-Force KDs, Advan AD07s or Bridgestone RE01-Rs? I know from experience that the Advans don't mind heat and the Bridgestones (which I have but won't have on the track until the 13) seem to be the same way. Both have very stiff sidewalls; you get what you pay for. Both have near-R-compound grip levels.

Unsprung weight seems to be neglected on these boards so often I've almost come to the point of ignoring it. However, I cannot and will not. The simple fact that we don't drive Ferraris doesn't mean we shouldn't be concerned about one of the fundamentals of suspension efficiency.

nlzmo400r

wheel lift due to the s15 helical differential can be completley eliminated with suspension tuning (which Ive done) and corner balancing.

The 255s aren't squished on the 8.5s, its within the recommended wheel size from falken and is fine, not optimal, but fine. Sidewall flex is nearly unoticable in this setup (comparing to other setups ive had) Ive driven on KDs (didnt like the initial turn in AT ALL, made the vehicle feel very vague), also on the Bridgestones (which I didnt like because of their lack of grip/feedback at the 'edge'). I admit having not driven on the ad07s yet, but I would hate to invest $600 in the setup, and be let down again. So far, my current setup is what Ive enjoyed the most, however I need a bit more.

And who mentioned unsprung weight neglect? Unsprung weight is the reason for choosing such light wheels/suspension pieces as I have.

As far as oversteer at corner exit? I think you mean understeer. If the inside tire were to lift with a helical differential due to unbalanced suspension setup, then the lifted inside tire would cause understeer, not oversteer.

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McRussellPants

Hahaha, nah, the fact that we're all on the most poorly valved chinese coilovers money can buy does. Stance, KTS, Apexi, JIC, cusco, Tein, whatever. they're all the same and they're all only marginally better than k-sport and megan. whoo whoo!

Put some Koni/Moton/Penske/whatevers on your car and then bitch about the 1lb you saved from ricer wheels.

Yokota, damn dude "don't tell me Im wrong, because I've already done it". hahahah. Preloading doesn't make your suspension stiffer, it makes it FEEL stiffer because your ramming the coil into the droop stop more. If you preload your coilover and move the lower collar to compensate. YOU WILL BE NO HIGHER AND NO LOWER AND YOUR SUSPENSION WON'T BE STIFFER. the only person on this site to lower his car with preload is D-Money, and he runs 2in of preload, which is stupid.

welcome to sus 101.

duh, helicals suck, real racecars run spools, heavily locked 2way clutch diffs or (and I don't know why I even mention this since it just gives people hope for shitty nissan VLSD which is retarded) electronically controlled viscous diffs.


Ugh whatever.

chmercer

um, you obviously do not, if you think 10mm of preload is magically changing your springrate. to change the spring rate, you need to get new springs.

on an single height adjustable coilover, when you preload the spring, the car raises up. you would have to be retarded to argue this. correct?

on a double height adjustable coilover, they operate exactly the same way. when you preload the spring the car raises up. the only difference is that you can move the mounting point of the strut, which you cannot do with single height adjustable coilovers

seriously this is like kiddie shit. if you dont understand it then i dont know what else to say.

chmercer

err, that was my point, they fucking suck shit, my 18x10s weigh 21 pounds and 18x12s weigh like 23

my point was that you see ccws all over the fucking place on "RACE CARS", and they weigh more than a box of bricks

a saturn on 215 hoosiers pulls more Gs than every car on this board. if you care so much about fucking unsprung weight get some nylon belted r compounds. the reason i have such a problem with people bitching about "your wheels are 2 pounds heavier than they could be" is that nobody on here "races" on legit equipment so the point is completly moot. unsprung weight wow. a 255/somthing 17 rt615 tire weighs like fucking 28 pounds. t1s weighs like 29-30 pounds. so theres your precious unsprung weight shitting its pants all over the floor. wow people race on thoes all the fucking time and the cars still go fast.

let me break it down for your obviously uneducated ass -

im using enkei nt03+ms and rt615 for an example here, insert your favorite 240sx pseudo racecar wheel and tire combo, you know, like maybe some gramlights 57pro with maybe some nice kumho MX, something nice and sporty. something that makes you "performance oriented".
17x9.5 weight - 20.1
18x9.5 weight - 19.4

275/40/17 rt615 weight - 28.8
275/35/18 rt615 weight - 28.6

hurrr 18s are lighter. do this with any wheel and tire setup on the planet. shits always the same. lower profile, less sidewall flex, lighter. only drawback is higher cost. sorry if you cant pay to play.

hmm what say we check on some hoosiers maybe
275/40/17 r6 weight - 23
275/35/18 r6 weight - 23

whoops same shit.

speaking of which, hoosiers save you 6 pounds of the dreaded unsprung mass at each corner. maybe you should like, get real racing parts, instead of trying to sand the paint finish off your FNs or whatever.

will you shut the fuck up now?

KA24DESOneThree

So... why follow their lead? You see CE28Ns and other forged, very lightweight wheels on Japanese race and time attack cars. Just because some race teams decide to run heavy wheels doesn't make it right.

I acknowledge the fact that the faster driver will obviously overcome any negatives of running heavier wheels. However, he'd be even faster with light wheels, with less wear and tear on his suspension.

Light wheels increase the effectiveness of the crap coilovers most of us run on. I realize my coilovers are crap; they're the weak spot in my suspension right now. However, the lighter my unsprung weight, the more use I get out of their limited effectiveness.

Get out of the thread, Viceroy crew. You know fitment, not cornering speeds. You've input your wheel fitment expertise, now you're just annoying.

Why is it that any thread in which wheel weights is brought up you two come in guns blazing, filling the heads of the easily impressed with downright idiocy resulting in mediocrity? There is absolutely no downside to buying the lightest wheels one can afford unless it has a propensity toward weakness. Oh right, it won't have a "baller" lip on it. So sorry. Seriously, what the hell?

nIsmo400r, have you ever checked your tire temps with a pyrometer?

Edit to respond to chmercer's edit:
Totally, lemme rock R-comps on my street/track car. Sounds like fun. My car is dual-purpose and I'm going to get the most out of it on the track while still making it marginally streetable. In fact, I run tires that you yourself said "probably kick ass."

So if the tire weighs more, who cares about wheel weights? Are you really that stupid? If a big tire weighs a lot, doesn't it make MORE sense to rock lower wheel weights to lower unsprung and rotational weight?

Actually, my setup is 17x9 +15 CE28Ns front with 17x9 +15 TE37s out back, once the CEs come in and I figure out how to run my rear brake setup with the Nams lower control arms. The CEs probably weigh a good pound to pound and a half less than the TEs, so it's probably 16lbs front and a measured 17lbs rear. Tires are wide as usable 245/40R17, at 27 pounds each.

Why are you saying I can't pay to play when I buy my wheels new and you buy used (i.e. your new Equips)? Don't you rock used tires, Mr. Pay-to-Play? Aren't you rocking an eBay intercooler and bodykit, including your copy Kouki wing? Didn't you previously cover your car in vinyl because it was cheap? What about your blue grounding kit? Assbag, don't even talk to me about paying to play.

McRussellPants

clean, you run light wheels and shitty tires because it makes you a JDM time attack driver.


thats all I needed to know.

chmercer

AGAIN.

a saturn with 215 hoosiers will pull more gs than anything else on this board

crying about wheel weight when you have street tires is like trying to do weight reduction on a stock caddilac by getting a metal file on the lugnuts.

yokotas13

bwahahah, my bad i forgot to add that i have progressive springs. i was wondering wtf i was missing.
I ordered some springs with the maximum progressie rate at 10/8 for the winter. I also have a set of regular and 8/6s
by B, shoulda pointed that out lolz
oh yeah, and if you add enough preload it will limit the travel of your suspension, purelly becuase it will compress the spring into itself (acting like a bump stop) adn preventing further compression.

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blackflag_Rms13

Quit your ethuggery, the point of this thread, as far as I see it, is whether or not nlzmo400r can fit 18x10(.5)'s wrapped in 285/30's under overfenders on an s13. Let's get back on topic

nlzmo400r

atleast someone here is paying attention. Im so tired of hearing Cmercer tell everyone that their 240 isn't a race car, no shit. But just because we dont use inboard brakes, quick ratio steering racks and 13k rpm v10 engines doesn't mean we can't enjoy making our cars more track worthy and fun. Oh, and you slap 215hoosiers on a saturn, go have fun, but it still won't pull more Gforces than a properly setup 240 on victoracers or something.

Anyway, Does anyone have any pictures of an s13 with a similar setup to what im looking for? The picture of hte s14 is great, but Im not too sure how much more room s14s have (fender/wheel/tire) than s13s. Would my s13 with 30mm fronts and 50mm rear overfenders give me comparable room to stock s14s?

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smelly240

WHILE I AGREE WITH YOU ON TIRES, chmercer... preloading does so make hte car stiffer... when compressed the springs is stiffer - think valvesprings... i agree with u 99% of the time chmercer - but this time (preload) you're mistaken.

I have been racing cars for almost 20 years now and i'm guaranteeing you that preload has an affect on stiffness. progressive springs or not.

when you compress a spring 1 inch with preload - the rate that was once say 444lb/in (similar to 8kg/mm) will be significantly higher now - when at free length it took 444lbs to move it that one inch - now its gonna take more - maybe 480 or so. Also - the susp wont travel at all until its weight upon it exceed that 444lbs.

this also comes into play with those of you that have reg spring/struts - they are 129lb/in at free play - but compressed into their strut held environment most springs are more like 215 or 220lbs/in.

if ur stressing about chmercer bein nice tou you nizmo - you're prolly on hte wrong board.

ans so you know - s14's have more room, but you dont need 285 tires - get something nice but you dont need 285s on ur .6bar, champ.

if you're spinnin em comin outta corners - ill give you the advice my dad gave me the first time i raced in the rain (i was 12 btw) - pretend theres a egg under the gas pedal - u dont wanna break it. bc if ur breakin em loose (255s) theres a good chance that you're breakin the egg, and the problem can be looked at between the seat and the steering wheel. (fucked up thing - he never told me to think there was a egg under the brake - and i spun out in turn one - got back in it and ended up 3rd, but wow was it crazy - 18 9-12 yr olds racing in hte rain = spinning out smashing stuff, in the grass, sand, fun good stuff...)

jmauld

I know you're asking specifically about the 285/30/18, but Hoosier is supposedly releasing a 275/35/15 in the spring of 2007. Might be a little bit easier to fit on a S13?

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jmauld

It only makes a difference if you preload it more than the corner weight of the car. Otherwise, you're wasting your time. Helper springs or not.

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McRussellPants

yeah, they're stiffer, marginally, because of manufacturing flaws.

The main reason Preload feels stiffer is because your running the shock closer to the droop stop.

only way preload can make your suspension more than marginally stiffer on a 100% linear spring, is if you preload so much that the car has to load the suspension more than static to compress the shock, which would probably be around an inch and a half (don't care enough so didn't do the math)

and what are you talking about changing spring rate? they're called linear for a reason, if it was made perfect, it would take up 8kgmm at 8in of height and 8kg at 6in of height.

The reason manufacturers tell you to preload, is because you can't make a spring 100% linear due to manufacturing issues. when you preload you're compressing the weakest parts of the spring, basically giving you a more linear spring rate.meaning instead of being average 7.6kgmm you'll get closer to having an exact 8kg/mm and it will stay 8kg/mm untill the spring gets bound or ramps UP in rate due to manufacturing issues. so yes there is an increase in rate, but if your springs are worth a shit it won't be much.

McRussellPants

PS, its egg between your foot and the gas pedal, not under it.

nlzmo400r

thanks for the heads up, but with the 275/35 being taller than a 285/30 I doubt itd be easier to fit.

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nlzmo400r

Your egg analogy is a good one, but I KNOW I NEED MORE GRIP, im not imagining my loss of traction. Sure I could come out of the corner more light footed (i.e SLOWER) but time will be lost.

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vrooompssssht

get a real lsd

how much did that s15 helical cost you?

nlzmo400r

what do you mean a 'real lsd'. There is nothing wrong with my differential at all, and IT is certainly causing my loss of traction, lack of tire grip IS.

I spent about $500 on my hlsd setup

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jmauld

Notice the rim size. the 275/35 is for a 15" rim! It's about 2" shorter than the stock S14 tire diameter.

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nlzmo400r

sorry didnt even notice the wheel size. I can't run anything smaller in diameter than a 17" wheel because of my brake setup. Unless I go inboard brakes

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sideview_180sx

dood my friend runs the now defunct SRX class. He runs 17x9s on 255/40 RA-1s on his s13 and he is fine. Sasha runs in a class up in canada. he will be running 17x9.5s upfront and 18x10.5s in the back. but is using an s14 chassis. if you have some 17x9s or 9.5s you should be able to fit 275width rubber. I've always been told to always want to stuff as much rubber as you can on a rim. you should rethink the 18s because you are adding in more things to worry about at each race. good thinking on the s15 diff, thats the best cost effective other then a real quaife(which were never meant to drift with). Look up on the ka-t forum. one of the guys from socal went out to the nasa nationals at mid-ohio. he is running fast and he could help you out some with possible tire sizes and setups. this forum really isn't prime for asking for roadracing when so few run it.

BTW fender pulling is always better then overfenders in racing. My impression is that you would be going with the typical FG complete fender replacement over the z-style flares. the z-style flares would be prime if you go with them. The reason for my opinion of that with overfenders, is the cost of replacing those.

here's a pic of my friends SRX 240 competing in the time attack.

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nlzmo400r

I have NO idea what you just said. Yes Im really road racing, and yes thats why I want larger rubber. How am I adding in more things to worry about with 18s?? And how is fender pulling better than overfenders? Id like to hear you explanation if you've got a minute, thanks

- Rob

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smelly240

yokotas13 - i just did some math dude - and you'd have to compress the spring over an inch to increase the springrate with preload, dude -- dont do that anymore

other guy... just buy whatever tires you want - none of us really cares that much to argue about it with you. It's your money - go buy stuff and track it. id rather have welded than helical btw i dont like how they feel.


lol - my ole man's a bit country - im lucky he didnt tell me to pretend there were titties under the pedal - not to hurt em :P
he grew up in central pennsylvania - i forgive him