nlzmo400r

Well now that I have a daily, its time to get serious. Im looking into a new wheel/tire combo. Ive already decided on Enkei RPF1's however am unsure about fitments. The only pictures ive seen with these kinds of sizes are drifters who are slammed and run stretched tires, Im doing this for road racing and will run 285/30 f/r and will have as much suspension travel as possible.

Possible options: Id like to stay away from a stagger, so heres my options


18x10 (+3) f/r with 275/35, or 285/30
18x10.5 (+0) f/r with same tires as above

these of course will be on larger fenders. 30mm overfenders up front, and 50mm overfenders out back. My question is about steering with this wheel/tire setup

heres a few pictures that I've aquired if it'll help any.

scroll down to the green s13, he is much more slammed that I am, however front wheel is 10" (+3) although tiny tire

http://ziptied.com/forum/viewtopic.p...=asc&start=105

scroll to the middle of the thread to the silver s13 with kouki tails. While he is stock body, the rear wheels are 10" (+13), the 10.5s I want to run would stick out 19mm more, however Id have 50mm more of fender to work with.

http://ziptied.com/forum/viewtopic.p...=asc&start=750

So what do you think, 10.5s all around with 285/30/18 doable with 30mm front and 50mm rear fenders? I'd like to run about -2.7/-3.2* front camber and about -2.3/-2.8* in the rear.

Anyone running similar sizes while racing ?? on s13??

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KA24DESOneThree

Well, overall diameter is only .1" larger than 245/40 and I have no problem clearing that BUT I can imagine a wider tire having fenderwell clearance issues at full lock.

I've gone through the same mess of searching as you have and finally just gave up. The only people who try the craziness are non-drifters over in Japan, it seems and I've forgotten all the Japanese I knew. I want to run something like 17x9 -15 (spacers combined with light wheels), which is similar to 18x10 +3 in terms of effective offset, under 30mm flares and have found no resource to see if I'm going to have clearance issues with the fenders.

Have you gone nuts with a pyrometer with your tires currently? You might not need that much rubber and might as well pare pounds the best way by keeping unsprung weight low.

Did you choose 18s because of increased width/sidewall availability when compared to 17s?

McRussellPants

shit is gonna nuke your powersteering and don't have any plans of getting to full lock.

you can fit anything with rideheight.
you won't need to, and you shouldn't space it to +3, that would be wicked hard to fit with a 285.
Hoosiers liking a shit ton of camber will give you some room to dick with


Sasha on ZT might be on something close to that.

chmercer

since every widefender claims 20mm except b magic which claims 30 ill assume you are talking about b magic, b magic fenders are nearly always narrower than stock pulled metal. you cant just put a measuring tape on your fender lip, measure 30mm, and woohoo! dosent work that way. sooo yeah. youll need somthing else if you want that tire on that wheel. i used an arch flare

rear sure whatever you can fit totally anything on the back, just put the wheels on the car before you put the overfenders on, to make sure you make them wide enough.

and yeah gonna need a power steering cooler

also i just re read this -

"The only pictures ive seen with these kinds of sizes are drifters who are slammed and run stretched tires, Im doing this for road racing and will run 285/30 f/r and will have as much suspension travel as possible."

slamming your car does not take up any suspension travel unless you have shitbrick coilovers / you are so low that you are compressing the shock at static height. never allude to "slammed = no suspension travel" again, NEVER. it is so fucking stupid

nlzmo400r

thanks for your input cmercer. ive seen your car in person once or twice in houston at Grind events. Also, you're incorrect about hte suspension travel bit. If your car is so low that you have 2inches before the tire hits the fender well (aka your new bumpstomps) then you're losing suspension travel. But thats not what this thread is about. The rear 50mm will be a bolt on quarterpanel. Also, I have no intention of going full lock, this will be road/track car, not an autoX car.

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McRussellPants

less than 2in of travel is no collars in the coilover low.

chmercer

well yeah obviously if your wheels hit on shit then it wont work, haha, im talking shock travel.

nlzmo400r

oops. Well anyway, Ive seen your car in person before as I said, and your wheels are huge. Any severe negatives about having such large wheels and tires. Does the steering go to complete shit?

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chmercer

no not really. just need to make sure everything fits, requires careful alignment and measuring to be sure of no rubbing when the suspension is fully loaded and rack is at full lock.

one negative is you will cook the ps fluid if you dont run a cooler. once you put a cooler though it runs colder than stock. also tie rod ends need to be up to snuff to handle the extra rubber. then again if you are road racing there wont be as much load on the rack as there is in drifting when you go back and forth lock to lock multiple times in succession.

at one point i was running 265/35 front 275/35 rear, crap compounds on front and rear, like cooper summer tires, and the grip was nothing short of retarded. i could fuck up so bad and it was all gravy. this was on like street racing curvy backroads and such. and the rear 18x12 with 275 tire weighs less than stock 350z 17s with 225s so unsprung weight, while people like to bitch about it with calculator and physics book in hand, in reality is not really an issue. maybe if you want to set records then yeah whatever but if that was the case you need a new platform.

nlzmo400r

^^haha, excellent post. I will run a cooler for the p/s. I run tein tierods (inners and outers) right now, and plan to upgrade to spl spherical bearing outers soon. One of my real concerns is f*cking up the scrub radius terribly

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chmercer

its not that big of a deal, makes the car tramline on the highway is the main annoying thing

yokotas13

hah i have like half an inch on all corners before i hit some shit.
My preload is so high on daily driving so i dont fuck shit up its rediculous. i have to raise my car nad reset preload every time i go to the track lol


also as far as PS cooler, can i just use another oil cooler for that?
Ill grab another galant oil cooler if i can

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nlzmo400r

why a galant oil cooler? Also, are you inquiring because you're running large wheels/tires?

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nlzmo400r

ok, i dunno if im just a moron or what, but when I search for large/wide tires and wheel setups, I can't find ANYTHING. WTF, I know ive seen threads on here before concerning this same thing, just can't find them, thanks-

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koukimonster139

i think you might run into some fitting problems maybe you can get some sort of adapter but i dont think power steering coolers are hella expensive either.

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chmercer

dunno why you would use some galant ghetto junk. lol

i use a setrab, i think its 5 3/4 x 11 3/4? somthing like that. 6an fittings. it was 50 bucks? also ive used a z32 oil cooler, it was almost free.

yokotoa, preloading your suspension just raises your car

turtl631

Might not be worth it with how light your car is. Talk to def- he ran 275/40/17 rears, kumho MXs, and even those weren't getting heated up completely on his s13. It was just overkill so he went/is going to a smaller rear tire. You have to think about rolling resistance on road courses too, giant tires have more downsides than they do for autocross.

yokotas13

i will be, im just waiting for the right reason. i have way too many around me that im selling not to

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yokotas13

not with the 2 way adjustable coils.
i preload the springs to not allow as much suspension travel, and then compensate with the lowering hte actual shock body in the bracket

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KA24DESOneThree

Regardless of what you have to tell yourself, unsprung weight is unsprung weight and comparing your combo to a heavy stock combo is lame. My 245/40R17 combined with 17x9 +15 TE37 weighs all of 44 pounds. My new front setup, arriving from Japan sometime in the next 46-76 days, will weigh one to two pounds less per wheel. You, on the other hand, had a tire that was two pounds heavier and farther from the hub. You also had a wheel with a huge barrel farther from the hub. Your center may have been light but the barrel was heavy as hell. How much did those wheels weigh? I know the Meister S2R in 18x9 was 22.3lbs. Let's say yours was extraordinarily light and weighed the same. 22.3 plus 29 equals 51.3lbs. That's 8.3lbs heavier than my setup, per wheel. That's hardly inconsequential.

Oh my God, I might have used a calculator (I didn't) to determine that. It must mean nothing!

It has been my experience, and I doubt I am the exception to the norm, that lighter wheels increase turn-in and suspension efficiency. I've had to dial back toe because turn-in was increased such a large extent.

nIsmo400r, do you find it necessary to run 18s? 17s are lighter, cheaper, and have less circumference in the barrel to better centralize rotating mass and decrease turn-in time, decrease braking distances, and decrease acceleration times.

This whole track bit is about getting faster, mostly through the improvement of your driving skills but also by upgrading the car to work more efficiently. Why not make it the absolute easiest on yourself and buy the lightest wheels that still fulfill your needs?

Oh, and don't forget that a wider wheel with a lower offset increases the leverage ratio of the suspension, possibly requiring an increase in spring rate to compensate.

chmercer

yes, preloading your springs raises your car, it compresses the spring when its in the air because the spring dosent have anything to push off of. once you put it on the ground the spring just pushes the shock out / up. preloading only shifts weight, nothing else.

ka24sojhadsklfhkdlf

man you sure like to type a lot of inexperienced junk. i bet youve ran like 2 hpdes! wow! baller. whatever tires you have on your fantastical te37s, it dosent fucking matter, because they arent hoosiers. everyones wheels on this whole website are lighter than ccw classics, so fuck it

nlzmo400r

well right now I run 8.5 all around with 255/40/17s azenis. Im preparing to hold a little more power. With the tires I have now, I can slide in 2nd gear exits very easily. Im just looking for a little more stick in general. Ive ridden in a friend of mines car with 245/40 Rcomps, and wasnt taht impressed with the increased grip, it simply wasn't enough. Thats why I wanted to go larger.

Also, I picked the rpf1's because of thier lightweight. And I chose 18s because a 275/40/17 actually is taller (spreading the weight out farther) and heavier than a 285/30/18 of the same tire. Also, the 18inch wheel isn't MUCH heavier than the 17. And to run the 275/285 size tire, I want a 10 or 10.5inch wheel. The offset needed to make these fit would be '0', so the 30mm and 50mm overfenders are needed.

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chmercer

nah man, didnt you read ka24de's post, 17s are always lighter, less unsprung mass, smaller rotating mass, the only reason race cars dont run 13 inch wheels is because then they couldnt fit the brakes. 17s are RACE CAR CITY

vrooompssssht

if you are running that much tire (which really is not necessary), and the proper spring rate for them, you probably wont HAVE two inches of travel

get an lsd, set up your suspension properly, and THEN go looking for wider tires, if needed.

no point in throwing on larger tires thinking it will make your car grip like mad and solve all your problems.


here come the negative rep points

yokotas13

ok so your telling me, that if i put say 10 mm of preload on the spring, then lower the shock in the mount to compensate, it wont only be stiffer, but the same height (after measureing and adjusting hte shock body in the bracket)

if you say no, im calling bullshit.

i have the same Type adjustable coils on my car.
im right, i know i am from experience

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datboibrad

this thread gives me a headache.

turtl631

I can see the point of the 18s because after 255s, most sizes in 17s are targeted more towards muscle cars with huge rolling diameters. However, I don't think any setup is going to have much of a chance exiting a corner in 2nd gear, especially if you up the boost.

Maybe your friend's car with r comps wasn't set up very well, alignment off, messed up dampers, improper spring rates, etc, etc. I don't see why 255 r comps would be insufficient for a (i'm assuming) relatively light s13. Have you been in a 240 with the amount of grip you want? Maybe its time to step up to a better platform. Or read sr20forum.com in the se-r cup section, some good info in there about 240 track setups.

ryan hagen

i run 275-40-17 ra-1's and i tore them up pretty bad my first track day, i took a couple laps to heat them up, i could spin them about as easy as a 615. kinda sucked cause i was hopin to get more grip but i got the same for more $

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turtl631

That's really weird that RA-1s had the same grip as 615s. Did you change your alignment for them? This thread makes me want to stay on street tires, everyone is disappointed with the grip of the harder r comps on these cars compared to street tires.

chmercer

it will be exactly the same stiffness, and the same height, but your shock will be extended further at static load. preloading is used for corner balancing.

when you preload, the spring just pushes up on the upper mount, where the shock is attached, it dosent increase the spring rate. if you think it feels stiffer with preload the only explanation i can think of is you are probably like hitting bumps and then the strut is maxing out (backwards bottoming out) and suspension stops working so you think its stiff? or something? if you preload any more than needed for a proper corner balance / no slack in the spring then you are just fucking up your shock travel.

lol at pic of stance. yeah dude. double height adjustable coilovers. i know. everyone knows. do they even sell single height adjustable anymore.