bb4_96

Secret sex video linked to NJ student's suicide | US National Headlines | Comcast.net

Somebody help me understand why this was a hate crime Like so many people are trying to portray it and even pursue it in court as such?

cc4usmc

I'm surprised that they're not going after everyone that watched the video too.

You can't really discriminate against a man for fucking a woman, but when it's a man, oooooohhhhhhhh lordyyyyyyyyy.

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bb4_96

^ Thank u. I'm still waiting for the sensitivity to everyone's everything to pass.

cc4usmc

That's only getting worse.

It didn't confirm in the article, but I wonder if this guy was a closet homosexual or, well, the opposite. I don't see someone who is proud to be gay jumping off a bridge.

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IIIXziuR

Wow I heard about this but didn't know about the whole suicide part.

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bb4_96

Also agreed. I don't see anyone proud of homosexuality bailing off a bridge. Especially that bridge. Maybe parents didn't approve, something of that nature. However, jumping was a very effective solution to the embarassment issue, if indeed that was his isssue. He will never be embarassed again.

ALTRNTV

Suicide is the coward's way out, no matter what circumstance you're in.

ronmcdon

That's pretty low to have roomates set up a camera in the room.
Was probably another case of the beer goggles.
That 'man' could have been a tranny.

No way a homosexual dude would take this so harshly.

bb4_96

I hadn't even considered that. What if he wasn't gay? On the roomates behalf. If a roommate was makin the sexy in a close vicinity to my person I might consider embarassing them. tape is a little extreme though.

SimpleS14

Based on the other articles I read, the guy that committed suicide was a closet homosexual. Ravi was going too far when he recorded the encounter and blast over the web not once, but twice (actually it failed second time around). He's only going to court for the NJ state law against soliciting imagery of sexual encounters without consent.

I wouldn't call this a hate crime, but that guy went to far blasting it on the net like that and getting someone else into the mix (Molly). Sucks that the guy committed suicide, I dont think I would be able to live with myself knowing my actions could have pushed someone over the edge (no pun intended).

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TheWolf

Ravi is dead homo's room mate. Ravi was using his OWN laptop in his own room. I don't really see what Ravi is in trouble about. If he was using someone elses notebook or some hackery then I would understand a crime. Ravi did not push homo off the bridge. Infact this just looks like a really well executed prank. I hope cooler heads prevail and all the charges are dropped against them. I would file for my tuition back and damages if I had to sit through mandatory "sensitivity" training at rutgers. I goto college to learn about the degree program I elect. Not homo's feelings.

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ineedone

Wow....

First, it is undeniable that this is a total/absolute invasion of privacy. No where is it legal to tape someone, without their consent, especially during a sexual encounter, and then put that tape online.

Second, if the only reason this person decided to do this was because his roommate was gay, that would make it a hate crime. However, this may be much more difficult to prove. And so far, it seems that the prosecutor is not pushing to go that route.

I think the maximum sentence for invasion of privacy is 5 years. Clearly this guy did not know this kid would commit suicide, however, it is an intensely cruel thing to do to someone, he will most likely plea out to a year or two in prison, then, hopefully, the family will bring a civil case against him (Intentional/Negligent Infliction of Emotion Distress just to name a couple).

Mandatory sensitivity training? You do realize that internet bullying has become somewhat of an "epidemic" and is a lot more vicious then say "regular" bullying. This "prank" caused a kid to jump off a bridge, now I am not saying that this was the intent of the "prankster" however, I did hear this on NPR earlier but the kid who committed suicide said his reason was because he did not want his parents to find out he was gay because someone posted a "sex tape" and he just could not live knowing that. I would hope by the time you are in college you should be mature enough (god... hopefully) to realize that this type of stuff is ridiculous and flat out wrong. Maybe people should have to sit through a session where his family and friends speak to you (if you go to Rutgers) hopefully you would learn how awful this kind of stuff is and how this "prank" destroyed this kid's life, friends, and family.

negrosx13

Rutger has best sanwich on campus...Grease trucks for the ftw!

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TheWolf

Invasion of privacy ends when you are in a dorm room with a roommate. A dorm is a shared domicile and a sock on the door handle does not instantly make it a private domicile. If you've ever done dorm life you'd know that. Second. The only reason he checked it out is because his roommate came to him and requested to be alone. No one knew he was "gay" until the camera rolled. As far as Ravi knew he was getting drunk or doing drugs illegally, or making bombs. Dead homo was considered a loner.

A hate crime must have premeditation to persecute. "I did this crime against you because I knew you were gay" Again no one knew until the tape rolled.

Third. This whole "streaming" it live to the internet thing sounds bogus. Maybe Ravi checked on his webcam through the internet and thus it's "streaming sex tape over internet" but I doubt 50 people logged into this random webcam because that would require server hardware. I do think 20 people may have piled into "co conspirator" chick's room and watched it while offering commentary.

Mandatory sensitivity training. Yes. that is my point. If some weirdo want's to take balls to the chin in a dorm room somewhere on campus but doesn't want his parents to know about his perverted lifestyle. Why would I require sensitivity training to his BS fetish? He's the one who wants the homo lifestyle and everything that comes with it. He's the one that wants to be different. Do I require mandatory sensitivity training if two girls want to get it on but want to hide that from their parents? Oh no because they're girls and thats "porn" to society. But two gays guys is what we need to be sensitive about. BS. This whole be nice to gays thing has been blown way overboard and they need to get some thicker skin. The world is not out to get them. The world is out to move on. I'm 30 man. I've been to college. I've done the dorm life thing. Sure you get drunk. Hook up with skanky chicks. Have your roommate walk in on you with your dick in her butt. Or sometimes have your roommate walk in with your dick in his GF. It happens. You should get out more. Dorm life is hardly a "private" affair. This IS NOT internet Bullying. This is a homo getting caught with his pants down. Quite literally. Same thing if you had a video of Senator larry craig blowing a guy in a bathroom stall in MN airport and posted that on the internet. That's not bullying. That's just life.

The whole sitting down in a room with his parents is ridiculous. Ravi did not ruin this kids life. He was a closet homo that jumped off a bridge. HE ruined his own life when HE hit the water. He jumped off that bridge because he got caught playing tonsil hockey with another guy. IT WAS HIS OWN ACTIONS HE COULDN'T LIVE WITH. No one else's. Personal responsibility. It's not society's fault or ravi's fault or the internets fault. It's his fault.

The whole suing the school or Ravi or just the fact that he could goto prison for this is absolutely absurd and is the pinnacle of not taking responsibility for yourself or your own actions.

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ineedone

I am sorry but you are absolutely wrong. The only time invasion of privacy is not "illegal" is when you are a public figure (i.e. Politician/Celebrity) because you have "put yourself in the public eye" with that in mind, here are the elements for invasion of privacy: 1) intrusion on one's solitude or into one's private affairs; 2) public disclosure of embarrassing private information; 3) publicity which puts him/her in a false light to the public; 4) appropriation of one's name or picture for personal or commercial advantage.

It does not matter why he decided to record him. The fact that he did, and then showed it to more than just himself is enough. I would say it is farily easy to say that if you are technically living in a dorm hall, showing it to at least 20 people as you say, would be plenty enough to satisfy the "publicity" aspect.


Hate crimes are crimes motivated by enmity or animus against a protected class. Premeditation has nothing to do with it. All you need is some sort of "anger"(enmity) or "prejudice"(animus). However, I do not seeing this being pursued in the case unless some facts come out that the person who recorded him had something against homosexuals.

Like I said before, the "publicity" element of the law does not require you to upload it to a million users. Though every case is different, my dorm hall floor had 28 kids on it, having more then half of them watching my private actions would (I feel at least) constitute publicity.

I am shocked that you are 30 quite honestly. Just because you yourself were fine with having certain aspects of you live violated, does not mean the rest of us would be. It seems that the only reason you have such a view against this is because the victim was gay. These people used the internet, to record a person (not knowingly) having sex, for the main reason of making fun of him. Some people would have just punched the kid and moved on, other are not built that way. Your views on what is/is not natural (I can not help but to say you clearly have a stance against homosexuality) is not the norm in society. Neither is it normal to video tape your roommate having sex (of any kind) and broadcast that to the world (or 20 of your "best friends").

Clearly there was more going on in this kid's life. However, just because it was not the "only" reason he decided to end his life, does not mean it was not a contributing reason. We know nothing of this kids life at home either, so before you go blaming him being gay, please do realize that people who are having trouble identifying why they are attracted to who they are attracted too struggle with this and a lot of depression goes on. If you do not have understanding parents, you can see why that would just add on top of that. Then, when you finally get to college, where your sex life is not something of embarrassment, your roommate makes a complete mockery of you and, in your mind, your parents will now find out you are gay because there is a video of you having sex on the internet. That has a powerful effect on a persons mind I can only imagine.

Again, I am not saying his roommate intended for any of this to happen. However, that he felt it was just fine to tape someone having sex without their knowledge for his own enjoyment, that is something that maybe he has learned is quite wrong. If he is any sort of a reasonable adult (or in this case child) this guy is probably going to be scarred for the rest of his life.

With all that said, we are not talking about prosecuting this guy for murder, or negligent homicide, or anything of the sort. Just invasion of privacy.

No, it is not absurd. He broke the law, there do exist consequences for that. You have a very ignorant view of the law, and well the world (in my opinion). I really do not see there exist any debate to this. If you want to offer up any legitimate reason this was not invasion of privacy please do. However, if you feel this type of behavior is "socially acceptable" well that is entirely your own opinion. I am of the side that believes that it is not, and I believe people are granted a reasonable level of privacy. Not only that, but bullying has gone way overboard with the internet. Research proves this, the anonymous nature of the internet allows people who would usually have to see in real time how their actions affected someone (and hopefully show them they are hurting someones feelings) now do not get that reaction. Either way, this is a major issue with middle school to young college kids.

bb4_96

^ As insensitive as that slew was I actually agree with alot of the points you made. College isn't a place conduce to sensitivity to everyone's everything. it can't be reallyn not the way it's conducted now. Homosexual sensitivity is approaching racial sensitivity in this country and both need to stop. Thicker skin would definitely promote progress instead of pandering everyone who is "different".

I'm a little pissed that the guy that jumped isn't responsible for his death even though he committed suicide. In a way this is another case of lack of personal responsibility in this country.

There's alot of tension towards "protected groups" like gays,races, etc. in spoken conversation lately. I think there is a growing underlying resentment towards these groups of people by the general public. Average Joe might be getting tired of people from these groups getting special attention. Just a thought. I know many people personally who I'd never have thought to be prejudiced to be very much so. Not in an unjustified sense but in the sense that certain groups are milking this whole sensitivity system. All these "strides towards acceptance" might just blow up their faces one day in the not so distant future.

bb4_96

Why did the roommate have to have done this on purpose? If you lived in a dorm then you know how things go right? What if five guys were hanging out in a room and ravi busts in pissed off because his sleep is being interupted. Knowing he left his cam on he decides to check out whats up. Before you know it there is hooting and hollering and 100 people on multiple floors are watching this. Simple mistake rolled out of control. Why does it have to be a cold calculated plan? The second encounter could have just been peer pressure on Ravi's part. or maybe he leaves his cam on regularly.

Like i said in my other post I don't think any one of the posters on this forums qualms is with homosexuality itself but the existence of the protected class.

ineedone

What is wrong with Gays having equal rights? Are you trying to say it is fine to discriminate someone based on their sexual orientation? I think you need to go back a few years and re read what happened in the Matthew Sheppard case. Thicker skin? how about more understanding? more civility to our common man/woman.

His life is over, what else do you want to take from him? They are not prosecuting the kid who taped him for murder. Only invasion of privacy. Not sure what else/less you want to happen.

Milking sensitivity system? How does acceptance hurt the common good? I think people need to go back and really read history and what has happened, the more integrated and accepting we become as a nation, the stronger.

ineedone

Well, in this case, he did do this on purpose. In your hypothetical though, I am not sure. My guess would be if it were known between the roommates that the camera was always on, then there would not be much you could do, however, if it was not known then you could run into some liability. If you are broadcasting you are liable for what you broadcast (accidentally/purposely) though I do believe.

240sx123$

I dont understand what this Ravi kid cared for... My freshman roommate in college was gay.. I didnt even know about it until 2nd semester. My point is- who the fuck cares? My roommate knew that I WASNT gay, so we never had an issue. Change rooms over it? Are you kidding me?! Its not like hes going to rape you in your sleep. Have a little tolerance. My roommate was an excellent person to live with- theyre a very clean people (lol). I dont understand people in this world- what is there to fear in homosexuality? If youre not gay, how does it affect you at all??? Honestly, if two dudes are gettin it on in a dorm, just stay off my bed, and make sure i dont walk in on it. Thats all I ask.

bb4_96

There is nothing wrong with gays having equal rights. Please do not twist my fucking words. I know you are smarter that to assume that i implied that. I just don't think openly gay people should be protected from ridicule. A gay man ought to be equal just like me and all his life choices ought to be open to ridicule just like mine. I'm very upset by the fact that society has built special protections for certain groups. Thats is not equality or equal rights.

i want people to view him as a selfish ass just like every other idiot that commits suicede, not some fucking martyre as he will be portrayed.

Acceptance is great but it comes with time. All the protections from something as simple as ridicule is only hurting progress. I think you need to look at the history going on right now in the world and how much resentment of the special protection of the different races is hindering their acceptance, gays are no different. Gay isn't completely socially accepted yet. That doesn't mean the legal system should try to force it, it's only causing harm. People will slowly journey outside their comfort zone and accept all people in their own time(it might take generations). But it has to be allowed to happen, not forced. The legal system forcing acceptance is only creating resentment towards these groups.

bb4_96

I feel the same way but alot of people. Especially the older generation/people from countries where it isn't widely accepted do not agree. They view it as some type of disease or whatever. it will take a few generations of gays being patient to weed that ignorance out.

240sx123$

Its the intolerant that we should be persecuting. Not minorities. Theres so much intolerance in this world, and its the stem of so many problems. Americans that cant tolerate Islam, Muslims that cant tolerate Jews, White people that cant tolerate black.. its fucking stupid. Every time I hear some redneck say something racist, I notice how he feels empowered by it. Its pathetic, and all I want to do is get into a real intellectual debate with that person, but the sad truth is that these bigots usually cant even hold a coherant conversation, much less back up their bigotry with facts or even a persuasive argument. I dont know about charging that kid for manslaughter or murder- i think invasion of privacy is the right charge.. but he's gonna have to live with what he did- and thats a far worse punishment.

Call me a Wook, but cant we all just get along?

*whispers* cant we all just get a bong?

bb4_96

^ You can't persecute the intolerant. It only breeds more intolerance. if i make a silly joke at work and it gets blown out of proportion of taken out of context(I would be seen as intolerant) and I'm sued or fired for it, not only am i forever resentful of that group but my friends and family are likely to be a little less tolerant as well.

240sx123$

Good point. I had never considered that. But the way to fight intolerance is not through acceptance of the intolerant.

I guess the only way to fight intolerance is through education.

bb4_96

^We have a winner.

aznpoopy

um, stop making random shit up.

first time, gay suicide kid asks ravi to leave room. ravi says okay. ravi goes to molly's room, messages himself on ichat to spy on his roommate, finds gay sex (kind of semi illegal). then he decides to put it on blast on twitter (more illegal), so that, even though he did not explicitly state it, anyone could have viewed the gay sex.

second time, gay suicide kid asks him to leave again. this time, ravi actually moved his computer or cam or whatever to get a better view of it, and put it on blast on twitter before it happened, telling everyone to message him to see some gay sex (super illegal). although this time, he failed (i.e. attempted), because gay kid caught on and axed the webcam feed.

read ravi's original twitter posts here
How a College Kid Livestreamed His Roommate Having Gay Sex, Possibly Causing a Suicide

gay suicide kid gay forum posts about it here
Is This Webcam Spying Victim Tyler Clementi's Last Call for Help?

legally, you are completely and utterly wrong. just sayin'

see above - ravi's twitter post regarding second gay sex encounter. certainly "premeditated" in terms of mens rea, although "intentionally" is probably the word in the statute.

see above - 1. ravi's twitter post regarding second gay sex encounter; 2. webcam feed was through ichat; anyone who messages you can see it

actually, if you read gay suicide kid's forum posts (link above) he doesn't seem suicidally upset about the whole deal. more like, "i'm fucking annoyed, i'm going to complain to RA and get a new roommate assigned." it's a bit of a mystery as to why he killed himself. it's something not in the media reports; maybe family related? at any rate, i hope you use this as a lesson in the dangers of forming strong opinions based on nothing except your own assumptions.

it should be clear from ravi's twitter. he didn't say, "lol hey msg me to see my roommate having sex." yes, a common college prank (which would still be highly illegal btw). he said, "msg me to see my SNIP gay roommate being a goddamn SNIP; fuck my room is dirty." well, not in so many words.

240sx123$

Why do you insist on calling him "gay suicide kid?"

Not really cool. The kid who caused it all gets a name, but the victim gets "gay suicide kid?" Go fuck yourself.

aznpoopy

alright, let me get my lotion

no seriously, i only know dickhead's kid name b/c it popped up in the thread posts i was responding to

i completely forgot the gay suicide kid's name. i knew it yesterday or the day before when i read all this shit, but i forgot it now, and it wasn't particularly relevant to the response

now if you take "gay suicide kid" offensively, consider whether social conditioning has trained you to think of such things as offensive, because really it's perfectly descriptive. if i wanted to be offensive, i might have called him "SNIP suicide kid"

ineedone

Tyler Clementi