Street Mod KAT looking to compete - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

North240 · 12-27-2004, 06:33 PM

I have a few questions for you guys that run SM, or have a lot of knowledge in auto-x in the first place. I have been running for the past 2 years up in Maine in STS classes and been doing quite well if i may add. This past fall i added a t3/04 to my set-up bumpining me to the SM class, and i am now looking for mods to improve.

I currently run, 95 se/abs/vlsd - AGX's, s-techs, 300zx brakes, and kuhmo 712's
I was looking to add:Powerbrace, tension rods, subframe spacers, 25mm wheel spacers and azenis. Any input from some seasoned vets would be great. If i'm flamed whatever.
Budget is tight but not non-existent

*HaLo* · 12-27-2004, 06:51 PM

well, first of all, Azenis won't cut it in SM. You'll need R-compound tires, such has V700s, Hoosiers, Z211, RA1 or A032Rs...

I'd also invest on something a little stiffer suspension wise... But the rest seems ok. The Powerbrace btw is not SM legal iirc.

SimpleS14 · 12-27-2004, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HaLo

The Powerbrace btw is not SM legal iirc.

why is that? j/w

*HaLo* · 12-27-2004, 07:51 PM

I believe you are not allowed to insert a brace that connects the left hand frame with the right hand frame.

But that's a shade of gray... I am not 100% sure.

jmauld · 12-28-2004, 05:55 AM

Konis, Ground Controls, and real race tires.

Cr0usEEE · 12-28-2004, 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmauld

Konis, Ground Controls, and real race tires.

on this note...what is a reputable company that sells koni's in nissan land?? im actually going to need a pieced together set of s13 fronts and 300zx rears for my car and last i knew enjuku or phase2 didnt sell koni's...would rather support someone in nissan land than some joe somebody

North240 · 12-28-2004, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmauld

Konis, Ground Controls, and real race tires.

Before i went that route i think i'd opt for KT'S from SPL. But how are the ground controls?

As for the powerbrace, thanks i never knew that, i'll probably try it anyway though

jmauld · 12-28-2004, 09:27 AM

I don't know about the quality of the KTS stuff. Before I used them, I'd have to know if they had optional spring rates available (or if you can use a std 2.5" spring), the type of internal adjustment used, and if they can be rebuilt to suit my needs.

Ground Controls and Konis are a known quality and have been tested for years.

As for where to get them, try www.shox.com or www.truechoice.com. I'm sure plenty of the Nissan shops can order the parts for you.

*HaLo* · 12-28-2004, 11:33 AM

About the Nismo Powerbrace:

Street Mod Rules, 2005, Section G:

Quote:

Subframe connectors are allowed, but each connector must be attached individually without any lateral components attaching the two longitudinal frame rails. Subframe connectors may be bolted or welded. SP allowances which authorize unrestricted mounting of suspension components do not permit the incorporation of non-SP-legal subframe connectors into the mounting scheme for a Street Modified vehicle.

SimpleS14 · 12-28-2004, 12:37 PM

So the powerbrace is ok? because its just replacing the T/C brackets....which are bolted onto the subframe...and not part of the actually frame rail....right?

<== semi-confused

jmauld · 12-28-2004, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Subframe connectors are allowed, but each connector must be attached individually without any lateral components attaching the two longitudinal frame rails.

If you want to call it a subframe connector, then I would say no.

Now, if you wanted to call it a strut bar, you have just opened up a discussion based on the Street Prepared Rules.

Quote:

Strut bars are permitted with all types of suspension. Strut bars may be mounted only transversely across the car from upper right to upper left suspension mounting point and from lower right to lower left suspension mounting point.

*HaLo* · 12-28-2004, 01:43 PM

In any case, it's not legal.

It can't be a strut bar because it's attached to the frame, so it has to be a subframe connector.

jmauld · 12-28-2004, 01:52 PM

Halo, just to discuss this a little further: how else would you attach a lower "strut bar". With all of the strut suspensions I've seen that would have to be attached to the frame at the lower end of the strut.

It says lower "suspension" mounting point. If the TC Rod is part of the suspension, and you use the bar that attaches between the two T/C rods but doesn't replace the T/C rod mounting brackets, then I believe there is a valid argument that it's legal.

019 · 12-28-2004, 01:57 PM

i'm curious how you were running sts with z32 brakes. that should bump you up to SM, i believe.

like everyone else mentioned, you'll want to get some coilovers. just pick whatever suits you. i don't hate the gc/koni combo mentioned (my friend has that setup on his s14), but i'd personally take the something like the flt-a2's. obviously it depends on your budget and what you're looking for. i have another friend with an sr s13 convertible riding on agx/stech combo with r-compounds and he does pretty damn well. if you want to keep the more comfortable ride, just get r-comps and see how you like it.

i think someone mentioned a while ago that the power brace wasn't legal, but that something like the kazama tension rod bar would be. i can't really remember and the rules have probably been tweaked a little bit.

*HaLo* · 12-28-2004, 01:59 PM

Yeah... I can understand...

Actually, the brace that was created by Powertrix (http://www.zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?t=64365) would be legal because it really attaches to the TC Rods... while the Power brace reinforcement it welded in the middle of the bar iirc.

019 · 12-28-2004, 02:08 PM

yea, the powertrix bar is similar to the tension rod bar. doesn't the fact that the power brace also replaces chassis suspension moutning points also make it non-sm legal? i believe there was a discussion on this as well somewhere. will have to dig that up.

SimpleS14 · 12-28-2004, 02:32 PM

hmm.....where is it legal to have the powerbrace? I ask because I have it on my car and wouldn't give it up once I start tracking.

btw.....I also like my KTS coilovers.

MovinUp-1 · 12-28-2004, 05:10 PM

The power brace is not legal because it replaces a suspension mounting point (the T/C rods). One lower lateral brace is allowed so the Cusco tension rod bar and ones like it are legal.

Konis are great shocks, I have had great success with them on my S13. Ground controls are good so long as you don't get any high spring rates on the S13. This is due to the fact that the spring is very short in the front and so not many rates are available. You don't want to go over 450 on the front anyway as the off the shelf koni won't handle more than that.

If you would like some options on which way to go with your suspension choices please send me a PM or call me at my shop. I'll be happy to help.

504-366-9774

019 · 12-28-2004, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 95KoukiS14

hmm.....where is it legal to have the powerbrace? I ask because I have it on my car and wouldn't give it up once I start tracking.

i think the powerbrace is legal in dsp. the downside is that you have limited engine mods at that point. apart from that, you'd end up in some really high class like em or something weird like that

North240 · 12-28-2004, 05:33 PM

as for the 300zx brakes you are correct it should have bumped me to SM, i learned after i installed and had been running in STS, i just didnt say anything knowing i would be in SM soon anyway. For that same reason i dont think they'll notice the powerbrace. Is a cage legal in anything? I would think that connects the subframe latterlly??
Thanks for the info thus far guys. I'd say the new list is:
subframe spacers, r-comps, tension arms, powertrix bar

*HaLo* · 12-28-2004, 06:37 PM

The Powerbrace is legal in PREPARED classes, not Stock, Street Prepared, Street Touring or Street Mod classes.

Roll bars / cages are legal because they are considered a SAFETY modification, as long as they follow the guidelines.

MovinUp-1 · 12-28-2004, 07:22 PM

Damn, HaLo beat me to it. Anyway, HaLo is dead on in his rules interpretation. North240. I think that your spring shock combo will be kinda soft for R compound tires. What sort of course do you run on most of the time? Concrete or asphault? Are the courses small and very twisty or are they bigger with some room to get up to some decent speed (around 60-70)?

jmauld · 12-28-2004, 08:17 PM

North240, another thing you can do is to start removing weight. I've taken out about 120lbs of stuff out of my SE. If you have a car with a lot of options, you can start getting rid of stuff.

*HaLo* · 12-28-2004, 09:27 PM

Then again, be VERY careful with weight reduction:
You cannot remove:
- All Trims
- Sound deadening

You can remove:
- A/C components
- Rear seat in Street Mod

jmauld · 12-28-2004, 10:14 PM

True. A lot of the things you see people normally doing aren't legal. But fortunately, there are a lot of other ways to reduce weight. Just remember, even saving as little as 2lbs will add up quickly.

240Stilo · 12-29-2004, 12:37 AM

I tried both stechs with agx and with koni's and the fronts are no better than agx. The rears seemed to be able to be stiffer than the agx. Not only that but the koni's lifted the rear back to stock height. Not only that but dealing with having to tear open stock struts to insert the shocks was not fun. I would have gone with KTS if I could do it again. Furthermore, the only ground control/ koni setup I found was for S13's.

North240 · 12-29-2004, 03:13 PM

To start with thanks guys for all the info, As for the courses i run they are mostly smaller tighter courses all on asphalt. about 4 per year get higher in the speed 50-60, the rest are generally 30-40. As for the suspension upgrade i dont know if i'll be able to afford a new setup this year, especially if i'm buying R-Comps so i'll add that to the new list. Other than that it looks like i have a good idea on where to go from here.

Cr0usEEE · 12-29-2004, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by North240

To start with thanks guys for all the info, As for the courses i run they are mostly smaller tighter courses all on asphalt. about 4 per year get higher in the speed 50-60, the rest are generally 30-40. As for the suspension upgrade i dont know if i'll be able to afford a new setup this year, especially if i'm buying R-Comps so i'll add that to the new list. Other than that it looks like i have a good idea on where to go from here.

dont worry about being competitive with top sm drivers at the moment without a decent suspension....i would do that first find the limits of the car on street tires (good ones though) with a good suspension setup then go to r comps next year...going from street tires to r-comps will improve your times drastically but if you learn your car on those badass tires then you could be hiding very bad habits...

tires mean everything in autox but dont learn on the best

North240 · 12-29-2004, 06:22 PM

are coilovers really going to make that big of a difference? Not to mention this will be my 3rd year auto-xing, and i was more than competitive in STS. The SM drivers up here arent like the rest of the nation or like what you guys have to deal with. I used to run about 1-2 seconds if that behind them without my turbo. my biggest worry up here is a v8 audi 90 (awd) with hoosiers and a good driver. Once again thanks again for all the input.

MovinUp-1 · 12-29-2004, 08:46 PM

A quality coilover setup will make a considerable difference compared to your current setup. The gains you will get are the ability to lower the car, corner weigh it, and the adjustability of a better shock. Over the last 3-4 years a lot of nationally competitive autocrossers have been spending a lot of money on shocks. And have been lowering their lap times. Now I'm not suggesting that a relative novice go out and spend thousands on a set of Penskes, but you could do well with some of the twin tube Tanabe or JIC setups.

12-27-2004, 06:33 PM	#1
North240 Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Portland, MAINE Age: 39 Posts: 350 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Street Mod KAT looking to compete I have a few questions for you guys that run SM, or have a lot of knowledge in auto-x in the first place. I have been running for the past 2 years up in Maine in STS classes and been doing quite well if i may add. This past fall i added a t3/04 to my set-up bumpining me to the SM class, and i am now looking for mods to improve. I currently run, 95 se/abs/vlsd - AGX's, s-techs, 300zx brakes, and kuhmo 712's I was looking to add:Powerbrace, tension rods, subframe spacers, 25mm wheel spacers and azenis. Any input from some seasoned vets would be great. If i'm flamed whatever. Budget is tight but not non-existent __________________ ROUND 2

12-27-2004, 06:51 PM	#2
HaLo from Canada, eh! Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Montreal, Quebec Age: 42 Posts: 5,199 Trader Rating: (0) Rides Gallery: HaLo Feedback Score: 0 reviews	well, first of all, Azenis won't cut it in SM. You'll need R-compound tires, such has V700s, Hoosiers, Z211, RA1 or A032Rs... I'd also invest on something a little stiffer suspension wise... But the rest seems ok. The Powerbrace btw is not SM legal iirc. __________________ -> HaLo Race Car: '98 E36 BMW M3 Daily Driver: '08 Fiji Blue Honda Civic Si SOLD: 01 GPW Honda S2000 PARTED: 93 Pearl White 240SX LE Fastback w/SR20DET SOLD: 93 Super White 240SX SE Convertible w/Silvia Front

12-27-2004, 07:51 PM	#4
HaLo from Canada, eh! Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Montreal, Quebec Age: 42 Posts: 5,199 Trader Rating: (0) Rides Gallery: HaLo Feedback Score: 0 reviews	I believe you are not allowed to insert a brace that connects the left hand frame with the right hand frame. But that's a shade of gray... I am not 100% sure. __________________ -> HaLo Race Car: '98 E36 BMW M3 Daily Driver: '08 Fiji Blue Honda Civic Si SOLD: 01 GPW Honda S2000 PARTED: 93 Pearl White 240SX LE Fastback w/SR20DET SOLD: 93 Super White 240SX SE Convertible w/Silvia Front

12-28-2004, 05:55 AM	#5
jmauld Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Cary, NC Age: 45 Posts: 362 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Konis, Ground Controls, and real race tires. __________________ Jason '95 240sx SE

12-28-2004, 09:27 AM	#8
jmauld Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Cary, NC Age: 45 Posts: 362 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	I don't know about the quality of the KTS stuff. Before I used them, I'd have to know if they had optional spring rates available (or if you can use a std 2.5" spring), the type of internal adjustment used, and if they can be rebuilt to suit my needs. Ground Controls and Konis are a known quality and have been tested for years. As for where to get them, try www.shox.com or www.truechoice.com. I'm sure plenty of the Nissan shops can order the parts for you. __________________ Jason '95 240sx SE

12-28-2004, 12:37 PM	#10
SimpleS14 Post Whore! Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Philly Age: 38 Posts: 9,185 Trader Rating: (0) Rides Gallery: SimpleS14 Feedback Score: 0 reviews	So the powerbrace is ok? because its just replacing the T/C brackets....which are bolted onto the subframe...and not part of the actually frame rail....right? <== semi-confused __________________ *Goals are dreams with a deadline.* L.H.O.O.Q.

12-28-2004, 01:43 PM	#12
HaLo from Canada, eh! Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Montreal, Quebec Age: 42 Posts: 5,199 Trader Rating: (0) Rides Gallery: HaLo Feedback Score: 0 reviews	In any case, it's not legal. It can't be a strut bar because it's attached to the frame, so it has to be a subframe connector. __________________ -> HaLo Race Car: '98 E36 BMW M3 Daily Driver: '08 Fiji Blue Honda Civic Si SOLD: 01 GPW Honda S2000 PARTED: 93 Pearl White 240SX LE Fastback w/SR20DET SOLD: 93 Super White 240SX SE Convertible w/Silvia Front

12-28-2004, 01:52 PM	#13
jmauld Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Cary, NC Age: 45 Posts: 362 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Halo, just to discuss this a little further: how else would you attach a lower "strut bar". With all of the strut suspensions I've seen that would have to be attached to the frame at the lower end of the strut. It says lower "suspension" mounting point. If the TC Rod is part of the suspension, and you use the bar that attaches between the two T/C rods but doesn't replace the T/C rod mounting brackets, then I believe there is a valid argument that it's legal. __________________ Jason '95 240sx SE

12-28-2004, 01:57 PM	#14
019 Zilvia Addict Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: blacksburg, va Posts: 697 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	i'm curious how you were running sts with z32 brakes. that should bump you up to SM, i believe. like everyone else mentioned, you'll want to get some coilovers. just pick whatever suits you. i don't hate the gc/koni combo mentioned (my friend has that setup on his s14), but i'd personally take the something like the flt-a2's. obviously it depends on your budget and what you're looking for. i have another friend with an sr s13 convertible riding on agx/stech combo with r-compounds and he does pretty damn well. if you want to keep the more comfortable ride, just get r-comps and see how you like it. i think someone mentioned a while ago that the power brace wasn't legal, but that something like the kazama tension rod bar would be. i can't really remember and the rules have probably been tweaked a little bit. __________________ Red '96 240sx www.streetdynamics.com

12-28-2004, 01:59 PM	#15
HaLo from Canada, eh! Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Montreal, Quebec Age: 42 Posts: 5,199 Trader Rating: (0) Rides Gallery: HaLo Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Yeah... I can understand... Actually, the brace that was created by Powertrix (http://www.zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?t=64365) would be legal because it really attaches to the TC Rods... while the Power brace reinforcement it welded in the middle of the bar iirc. __________________ -> HaLo Race Car: '98 E36 BMW M3 Daily Driver: '08 Fiji Blue Honda Civic Si SOLD: 01 GPW Honda S2000 PARTED: 93 Pearl White 240SX LE Fastback w/SR20DET SOLD: 93 Super White 240SX SE Convertible w/Silvia Front

12-28-2004, 02:08 PM	#16
019 Zilvia Addict Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: blacksburg, va Posts: 697 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	yea, the powertrix bar is similar to the tension rod bar. doesn't the fact that the power brace also replaces chassis suspension moutning points also make it non-sm legal? i believe there was a discussion on this as well somewhere. will have to dig that up. __________________ Red '96 240sx www.streetdynamics.com

12-28-2004, 02:32 PM	#17
SimpleS14 Post Whore! Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Philly Age: 38 Posts: 9,185 Trader Rating: (0) Rides Gallery: SimpleS14 Feedback Score: 0 reviews	hmm.....where is it legal to have the powerbrace? I ask because I have it on my car and wouldn't give it up once I start tracking. btw.....I also like my KTS coilovers. __________________ *Goals are dreams with a deadline.* L.H.O.O.Q.

12-28-2004, 05:10 PM	#18
MovinUp-1 Zilvia Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Now I'm in Texas Posts: 243 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	The power brace is not legal because it replaces a suspension mounting point (the T/C rods). One lower lateral brace is allowed so the Cusco tension rod bar and ones like it are legal. Konis are great shocks, I have had great success with them on my S13. Ground controls are good so long as you don't get any high spring rates on the S13. This is due to the fact that the spring is very short in the front and so not many rates are available. You don't want to go over 450 on the front anyway as the off the shelf koni won't handle more than that. If you would like some options on which way to go with your suspension choices please send me a PM or call me at my shop. I'll be happy to help. 504-366-9774 __________________ Allen Delta Region SCCA SM 1990 240SX SR20DET

12-28-2004, 05:33 PM	#20
North240 Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Portland, MAINE Age: 39 Posts: 350 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	as for the 300zx brakes you are correct it should have bumped me to SM, i learned after i installed and had been running in STS, i just didnt say anything knowing i would be in SM soon anyway. For that same reason i dont think they'll notice the powerbrace. Is a cage legal in anything? I would think that connects the subframe latterlly?? Thanks for the info thus far guys. I'd say the new list is: subframe spacers, r-comps, tension arms, powertrix bar __________________ ROUND 2

12-28-2004, 06:37 PM	#21
HaLo from Canada, eh! Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Montreal, Quebec Age: 42 Posts: 5,199 Trader Rating: (0) Rides Gallery: HaLo Feedback Score: 0 reviews	The Powerbrace is legal in PREPARED classes, not Stock, Street Prepared, Street Touring or Street Mod classes. Roll bars / cages are legal because they are considered a SAFETY modification, as long as they follow the guidelines. __________________ -> HaLo Race Car: '98 E36 BMW M3 Daily Driver: '08 Fiji Blue Honda Civic Si SOLD: 01 GPW Honda S2000 PARTED: 93 Pearl White 240SX LE Fastback w/SR20DET SOLD: 93 Super White 240SX SE Convertible w/Silvia Front

12-28-2004, 07:22 PM	#22
MovinUp-1 Zilvia Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Now I'm in Texas Posts: 243 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Damn, HaLo beat me to it. Anyway, HaLo is dead on in his rules interpretation. North240. I think that your spring shock combo will be kinda soft for R compound tires. What sort of course do you run on most of the time? Concrete or asphault? Are the courses small and very twisty or are they bigger with some room to get up to some decent speed (around 60-70)? __________________ Allen Delta Region SCCA SM 1990 240SX SR20DET

12-28-2004, 08:17 PM	#23
jmauld Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Cary, NC Age: 45 Posts: 362 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	North240, another thing you can do is to start removing weight. I've taken out about 120lbs of stuff out of my SE. If you have a car with a lot of options, you can start getting rid of stuff. __________________ Jason '95 240sx SE

12-28-2004, 09:27 PM	#24
HaLo from Canada, eh! Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Montreal, Quebec Age: 42 Posts: 5,199 Trader Rating: (0) Rides Gallery: HaLo Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Then again, be VERY careful with weight reduction: You cannot remove: - All Trims - Sound deadening You can remove: - A/C components - Rear seat in Street Mod __________________ -> HaLo Race Car: '98 E36 BMW M3 Daily Driver: '08 Fiji Blue Honda Civic Si SOLD: 01 GPW Honda S2000 PARTED: 93 Pearl White 240SX LE Fastback w/SR20DET SOLD: 93 Super White 240SX SE Convertible w/Silvia Front

12-28-2004, 10:14 PM	#25
jmauld Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Cary, NC Age: 45 Posts: 362 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	True. A lot of the things you see people normally doing aren't legal. But fortunately, there are a lot of other ways to reduce weight. Just remember, even saving as little as 2lbs will add up quickly. __________________ Jason '95 240sx SE

12-29-2004, 12:37 AM	#26
240Stilo Junkie Join Date: May 2002 Location: Socal Age: 37 Posts: 1,160 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	I tried both stechs with agx and with koni's and the fronts are no better than agx. The rears seemed to be able to be stiffer than the agx. Not only that but the koni's lifted the rear back to stock height. Not only that but dealing with having to tear open stock struts to insert the shocks was not fun. I would have gone with KTS if I could do it again. Furthermore, the only ground control/ koni setup I found was for S13's. __________________ -Juan

12-29-2004, 03:13 PM	#27
North240 Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Portland, MAINE Age: 39 Posts: 350 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	To start with thanks guys for all the info, As for the courses i run they are mostly smaller tighter courses all on asphalt. about 4 per year get higher in the speed 50-60, the rest are generally 30-40. As for the suspension upgrade i dont know if i'll be able to afford a new setup this year, especially if i'm buying R-Comps so i'll add that to the new list. Other than that it looks like i have a good idea on where to go from here. __________________ ROUND 2

12-29-2004, 06:22 PM	#29
North240 Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Portland, MAINE Age: 39 Posts: 350 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	are coilovers really going to make that big of a difference? Not to mention this will be my 3rd year auto-xing, and i was more than competitive in STS. The SM drivers up here arent like the rest of the nation or like what you guys have to deal with. I used to run about 1-2 seconds if that behind them without my turbo. my biggest worry up here is a v8 audi 90 (awd) with hoosiers and a good driver. Once again thanks again for all the input. __________________ ROUND 2

12-29-2004, 08:46 PM	#30
MovinUp-1 Zilvia Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Now I'm in Texas Posts: 243 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	A quality coilover setup will make a considerable difference compared to your current setup. The gains you will get are the ability to lower the car, corner weigh it, and the adjustability of a better shock. Over the last 3-4 years a lot of nationally competitive autocrossers have been spending a lot of money on shocks. And have been lowering their lap times. Now I'm not suggesting that a relative novice go out and spend thousands on a set of Penskes, but you could do well with some of the twin tube Tanabe or JIC setups. __________________ Allen Delta Region SCCA SM 1990 240SX SR20DET

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