Yes I know I might get flamed but here goes.. - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

Zemus · 05-23-2003, 09:42 AM

I am consitering putting a 13b NON-turbo in my 240. Why you might ask? Well here is why
-The engine is inexpensive
-Is ways to give it 250RWHP NA
-High reving capabilitys
-Weights much less than a stock KA or a SR
-And the enigne is just so damn simple!

Downsides
-Blow thought engines like crazy if i dont know what im doing
-Install, Dont know how I would even start to do an install.

Which is my question, how do I go about installing one?

I know im going to get flamed with the whole "Keep a Mazda in a Mazda" stuff, but just hold off on it, ive heard it all before. The engine plan is down the road, i just want to get some info on it. I even searched and found nothing about putting a rotory in a 240. If the datsuns can do it, why not a 240?

**mrmephistopheles** · 05-23-2003, 10:09 AM

nothing that says it can't be done, but you'll have to deal with spending mad $$$ in custom fabrication. I have a feeling that if you 'blow through engines like crazy', you'll probably do the same with a rotary. A rotary swap HAS been done before. If you remember the bright yellow fastback with RB25 that was on eBay and posted here too, it previously had a rotary.

Personally, I think your best bet would be to figure out why you 'blow through engines like crazy' and fix that.

Dousan_PG · 05-23-2003, 10:15 AM

$ and fab skills

if you "blow through engines" you need to buy yourself a bicycle and learn about tuning before you put that key in the ignition.

KiDyNomiTe · 05-23-2003, 10:19 AM

There has been SRs in rx7s so its perfectly possible, I am sure it would be a great swap, although buying an FC would be a lot easier IMO.

logo20 · 05-23-2003, 10:20 AM

how do you plan to get 250rwhp out of a na, don't they have like 150hp stock? I guess the harder part would be to weld custom motor mounts. anyway I think it's a waist of time and money.

Dousan_PG · 05-23-2003, 10:26 AM

[flame mode]

seriously why the hell would you waste your time? your always saying "oh i need tires, oh i need wheels, oh i need a lsd, oh i need xxx and xxx and xxx"

1. stop dreaming
2. get a job
3. go have fun

KA is PERFECTLY FINE for what you do (drift) and why do you care so much about how much power you make? or some crazy engine swap. if you are KA24E then swap a DE in and you'll notice a gain in power. and that is far cheaper then a mazda engine. mode the DE if you need.

stop being a dreamer and just ENJOY your car. go out to the track and have fun. quit wasting time with this nonsense and pipe dreams

[/flame mode]

AKADriver · 05-23-2003, 11:38 AM

People have installed rotaries in S-chassis cars. Waste of time IMO - the FC chassis is arguably better (they're in faster auto-x classes than we are... even non-turbos).

Dreaming is fun. Dreaming out loud and asking people if it's feasible... ehhhh

logo20, that kind of power out of an NA rotary is fairly easily achieved with porting, a huge open exhaust and a huge carb. The engine will guzzle gas (well under 10mpg) and sound like crap though... NA rotaries with straight pipes are DEAFENING!

Looking at a typical race-built 12A or 13B rotary and how nasty they are makes me appreciate what Mazda engineers have done with the new Renesis rotary just that much more.

Maeda · 05-23-2003, 11:45 AM

two words...

Bridge Port

and
Whats wrong with the KA?

MorganS13 · 05-23-2003, 12:23 PM

N/A rotarys don't go through apex seals like the turbos.. they are far more reliable so that shouldn't be a problem. also N/A rx-7s are pretty freakin cheap around here, i'd rather just pick one of those up than go through the trouble of getting the engine into an S-chassis

on a similar note, attached is a picture my friend drew. it is being printed on a t-shirt, if anyones interested i can post a link.

M.Piedlourde · 05-23-2003, 01:23 PM

I agree with Dousan's flame and what MorganS13 said.

Is there something wrong with your car's current engine?

s13silady · 05-23-2003, 01:33 PM

geez if you were thinking all that you might as well go for a
20B TURBO (cosmo triple rotor turbo)
either way your going to be spending money...

Dousan_PG · 05-23-2003, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by s13silady
geez if you were thinking all that you might as well go for a
20B TURBO (cosmo triple rotor turbo)
either way your going to be spending money...

cosmo is auto only iirc. going manual tranny requires lots of work because its into the ECU
gotta run standalone!

not sure on that info but that's what i've been told! someone correct me if i am wrong!!!

also 3 rotor overheats FAST!!!!! SUPER FAST!

i'd go 13b (i think that's the turbo one in FC)
the engine is about 1K so its not that expensive. buy 3. one in car, one ready to go in and one for backup haha..

seriously if you can tune well you wont run into issues

cosmo engines ROCK. uuuugh so nice. but eh.

Rennen · 05-23-2003, 02:11 PM

Bling

there is a rotary in a 180sx or 240sx or whatever

Dousan_PG · 05-23-2003, 02:12 PM

180sx
brake mc is right side

COOL PIC!

Maeda · 05-23-2003, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dousan36
cosmo is auto only iirc. going manual tranny requires lots of work because its into the ECU
gotta run standalone!

not sure on that info but that's what i've been told! someone correct me if i am wrong!!!

also 3 rotor overheats FAST!!!!! SUPER FAST!

i'd go 13b (i think that's the turbo one in FC)
the engine is about 1K so its not that expensive. buy 3. one in car, one ready to go in and one for backup haha..
seriously if you can tune well you wont run into issues

cosmo engines ROCK. uuuugh so nice. but eh.

13B engines can be found in the FB,FC,FD

the FB had 12a and 13B
the FC had 13B and 13BT
the FD had the 13BTT(?)

even the renesis is the same 13b engine with moved ports...
go buy your 13B from pineapple racing in oregon, and ask them for a bridge port parallel port. Slap a T04 on there and you can make 500 or so ponies. It's been done before (soul assasins fc).

3 rotor overheating is somewhat of a misconception... mazda ran it in lemans just fine and won. The 787 anyone? those cosmo engines cost near 10 grand if i remember correctly... the problem with rotaries over heating is just apex seal stuff, and its usually due to running too lean just as with any other car. this is why its common practice to make your rx-7 rich until it shoots flames...

Dousan_PG · 05-23-2003, 02:37 PM

thanks Maeda

can i go home now? i learned something new today!

**mrmephistopheles** · 05-23-2003, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Maeda
the FD had the 13BTT(?)

13B-REW

Quote:

3 rotor overheating is somewhat of a misconception... mazda ran it in lemans just fine and won. The 787 anyone?

787 ran a naturally aspirated 4 rotor.

ellinikomangas · 05-24-2003, 12:01 AM

Like it was said it has been done.
http://www.nissaninfiniticlub.net/vb...&highlight=13b

s13rookie · 05-24-2003, 01:12 AM

maeda, by bridge port do you mean the milling machines? if so, its bridgeport, named after the town in ct they were invented in

almost anything can be done on a bridgeport, even more if it has the proto-trak attachment

MorganS13 · 05-24-2003, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by s13rookie
maeda, by bridge port do you mean the milling machines? if so, its bridgeport, named after the town in ct they were invented in

almost anything can be done on a bridgeport, even more if it has the proto-trak attachment

i dunno what a bridgeport is.. but i know a couple RX-7 guys around here in our local car club running pineapple street ports and making quite a bit of power.

*sykikchimp* · 05-24-2003, 03:33 PM

There's no such thing as an FB either. I think they were something like the SA or something. FB is not the correct chassis code though.

If you say that on an RX-7 board.. they'll ream u, like we do newbies around here when they talk about their 180sx. lol

**mrmephistopheles** · 05-24-2003, 05:24 PM

**** i didn't even notice that.. I think it was SA2 or some such, but I don't recall 100%, plus I'm too lazy to google it.

zspturbo · 05-24-2003, 06:09 PM

just want to put my little bit of info in here, but I was a member of rx7club.com/forums for a year and a half, and only knew of 2 people who were satisfied with their 13b in na form. if you are gonna go rotary, either go 12a because there is much more of an NA community for it, or get a low boost turbo 13b.

thats my advice.

edit:
1)it is "bridge port" because its a humongous port, with a small bit of supporting material called the "bridge"

2) if you run a bridge port, dont expect the engine to last very long

3) rx7 people say fb.

4) 20b does not overheat, unless you raise HP bigtime, run it rich, and have a tiny IC and a tiny Radiator. it is important with the 20b, just as with all other rotaries, to have a MASSIVE Radiator as well as IC.

5) there are multiple versions of the 13bt, one came in the fb, one in the S4 fc, and one in the s5 fc. after that it was renamed the REW. basically, when dealing with rotaries, the newer the engine is, the better it is.

6) soul assasins car has been featured car for like, a year and a half. it has made many a young man cream their pants. if you ever heard a video of it, it also probably made your ears bleed.

Nismos14 · 05-24-2003, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ellinikomangas
Like it was said it has been done.
http://www.nissaninfiniticlub.net/vb...&highlight=13b

uhhh thats a sr in a rx, we're talking a rotary in a 240....

AKADriver · 05-24-2003, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sykikchimp
There's no such thing as an FB either. I think they were something like the SA or something. FB is not the correct chassis code though.

If you say that on an RX-7 board.. they'll ream u, like we do newbies around here when they talk about their 180sx. lol

"SA" or "SA22C" refers only to very early 1st gens.. '79-'80.
Later first gens, '81-'85, really are "FB" or "FB3S" models!

**mrmephistopheles** · 05-24-2003, 08:14 PM

Thanks for clarifying, AKADriver... I didn't think it was FB...

Zemus · 05-24-2003, 08:19 PM

When i mean i go thought engines, i mean i would be worried about doing that with the 13b. Also, this was an IDEA! not what im going to do. And this is just one of my many options. and dousan i got tires, i never said **** about rims. I just am saving for diff right now, then next thing will be engine power, I was at a event today, and I have no power out of the courners with the ka, NON! I want na power, and i love the way the rotory works, it was an idea.

Andrew Bohan · 05-25-2003, 12:32 AM

so if you put a 13b in an s-car, it would be a 130SX right?

AutoDestruct · 05-25-2003, 05:52 AM

Good dreaming Oni don't let the haters get you. Dousan's so JDM'd out that he thinks he's in a higher class than us mere automotive mortals. I appreciate new ideas, or even the rediscussion of old ones. Keep up the good work. I for one will always have your back. Let us dream on. Personal expression and opinion are your rights as a citizen of a free country. as well as Dousans right to give critical commentary. sorry Dousan36

but you have to stay open minded.

**mrmephistopheles** · 05-25-2003, 06:17 AM

You really have a thing against actually reading a thread, don't you. Dousan's first post in this thread was an explanation of what was necessary, and a statement echoing what I had said about 'blowing through engines'. His second post was a flaming post, probably because it was expected of him, and he made it known that he was just in 'flaming mode'. Now look at his 3rd post. Does it not say in there:

Quote:

'i'd go 13b (i think that's the turbo one in FC)
the engine is about 1K so its not that expensive. buy 3. one in car, one ready to go in and one for backup haha..
seriously if you can tune well you wont run into issues

So, before you attack someone, look at what they are actually saying first.

Also, Zilvia.net is not a free country. If it were, then I couldn't (and wouldn't) be here to moderate you. Granted, most of our members are from the US, the physical server is in the US, and the owner is in the US. However, your constitutional rights as an American do NOT apply on this private forum. You do NOT have absolute freedom of speech.

05-23-2003, 09:42 AM	#1
Zemus Nissanaholic! Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Minneapols Age: 37 Posts: 2,268 Trader Rating: (0) Rides Gallery: Zemus Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Yes I know I might get flamed but here goes.. I am consitering putting a 13b NON-turbo in my 240. Why you might ask? Well here is why -The engine is inexpensive -Is ways to give it 250RWHP NA -High reving capabilitys -Weights much less than a stock KA or a SR -And the enigne is just so damn simple! Downsides -Blow thought engines like crazy if i dont know what im doing -Install, Dont know how I would even start to do an install. Which is my question, how do I go about installing one? I know im going to get flamed with the whole "Keep a Mazda in a Mazda" stuff, but just hold off on it, ive heard it all before. The engine plan is down the road, i just want to get some info on it. I even searched and found nothing about putting a rotory in a 240. If the datsuns can do it, why not a 240? __________________ \|Ziptied.com\|Hybrid Z\|D-Town Forum\|Clubfr.net\|

05-23-2003, 10:15 AM	#3
Dousan_PG Post Whore! Join Date: May 2002 Location: Orange County, California Age: 42 Posts: 16,640 Trader Rating: (23) Rides Gallery: Dousan_PG Feedback Score: 23 reviews	$ and fab skills if you "blow through engines" you need to buy yourself a bicycle and learn about tuning before you put that key in the ignition. __________________ Aaron Pink GodziRa www.geocities.com/pink_godzira

05-23-2003, 10:19 AM	#4
KiDyNomiTe Post Whore! Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Chicago Age: 35 Posts: 6,296 Trader Rating: (0) Rides Gallery: KiDyNomiTe Feedback Score: 0 reviews	There has been SRs in rx7s so its perfectly possible, I am sure it would be a great swap, although buying an FC would be a lot easier IMO. __________________ PROCEED Grip Gambler

05-23-2003, 10:20 AM	#5
logo20 Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 345 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	how do you plan to get 250rwhp out of a na, don't they have like 150hp stock? I guess the harder part would be to weld custom motor mounts. anyway I think it's a waist of time and money. __________________ http://community.webshots.com/user/logo20

05-23-2003, 10:26 AM	#6
Dousan_PG Post Whore! Join Date: May 2002 Location: Orange County, California Age: 42 Posts: 16,640 Trader Rating: (23) Rides Gallery: Dousan_PG Feedback Score: 23 reviews	[flame mode] seriously why the hell would you waste your time? your always saying "oh i need tires, oh i need wheels, oh i need a lsd, oh i need xxx and xxx and xxx" 1. stop dreaming 2. get a job 3. go have fun KA is PERFECTLY FINE for what you do (drift) and why do you care so much about how much power you make? or some crazy engine swap. if you are KA24E then swap a DE in and you'll notice a gain in power. and that is far cheaper then a mazda engine. mode the DE if you need. stop being a dreamer and just ENJOY your car. go out to the track and have fun. quit wasting time with this nonsense and pipe dreams [/flame mode] __________________ Aaron Pink GodziRa www.geocities.com/pink_godzira

05-23-2003, 10:09 AM	#2
mrmephistopheles Inactive Admin Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: BFE Age: 19 Posts: 14,334 Trader Rating: (9) Rides Gallery: mrmephistopheles Feedback Score: 9 reviews	nothing that says it can't be done, but you'll have to deal with spending mad $$$ in custom fabrication. I have a feeling that if you 'blow through engines like crazy', you'll probably do the same with a rotary. A rotary swap HAS been done before. If you remember the bright yellow fastback with RB25 that was on eBay and posted here too, it previously had a rotary. Personally, I think your best bet would be to figure out why you 'blow through engines like crazy' and fix that.

05-23-2003, 11:38 AM	#7
AKADriver Post Whore! Join Date: May 2002 Location: Springfield, VA Age: 39 Posts: 3,112 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	People have installed rotaries in S-chassis cars. Waste of time IMO - the FC chassis is arguably better (they're in faster auto-x classes than we are... even non-turbos). Dreaming is fun. Dreaming out loud and asking people if it's feasible... ehhhh logo20, that kind of power out of an NA rotary is fairly easily achieved with porting, a huge open exhaust and a huge carb. The engine will guzzle gas (well under 10mpg) and sound like crap though... NA rotaries with straight pipes are DEAFENING! Looking at a typical race-built 12A or 13B rotary and how nasty they are makes me appreciate what Mazda engineers have done with the new Renesis rotary just that much more.

05-23-2003, 11:45 AM	#8
Maeda Nissanaholic! Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Camp Snake Bite, CA RIP Posts: 2,356 Trader Rating: (0) Rides Gallery: Maeda Feedback Score: 0 reviews	two words... Bridge Port and Whats wrong with the KA? __________________

05-23-2003, 01:23 PM	#10
M.Piedlourde Zilvia Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: We can't stay here! This is bat country! Age: 46 Posts: 244 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	I agree with Dousan's flame and what MorganS13 said. Is there something wrong with your car's current engine?

05-23-2003, 01:33 PM	#11
s13silady Nissanaholic! Join Date: May 2002 Location: Bay Area, San Jose Posts: 1,804 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	geez if you were thinking all that you might as well go for a 20B TURBO (cosmo triple rotor turbo) either way your going to be spending money... __________________

05-23-2003, 02:11 PM	#13
Rennen Zilvia Addict Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: WichitAr, KS Age: 38 Posts: 877 Trader Rating: (0) Rides Gallery: Rennen Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Bling there is a rotary in a 180sx or 240sx or whatever __________________ '89 Nissan 240SX fastback: #23 DSP/RallyMod2/Track Slut '95 BMW 540i 6 speed: Ultimate Commuting Machine PFM Racing www.solo2.org www.midwest240sx.com

05-23-2003, 02:12 PM	#14
Dousan_PG Post Whore! Join Date: May 2002 Location: Orange County, California Age: 42 Posts: 16,640 Trader Rating: (23) Rides Gallery: Dousan_PG Feedback Score: 23 reviews	180sx brake mc is right side COOL PIC! __________________ Aaron Pink GodziRa www.geocities.com/pink_godzira

05-23-2003, 02:37 PM	#16
Dousan_PG Post Whore! Join Date: May 2002 Location: Orange County, California Age: 42 Posts: 16,640 Trader Rating: (23) Rides Gallery: Dousan_PG Feedback Score: 23 reviews	thanks Maeda can i go home now? i learned something new today! __________________ Aaron Pink GodziRa www.geocities.com/pink_godzira

05-24-2003, 12:01 AM	#18
ellinikomangas Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Arizona Age: 39 Posts: 19 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Like it was said it has been done. http://www.nissaninfiniticlub.net/vb...&highlight=13b

05-24-2003, 01:12 AM	#19
s13rookie Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: connecticut Age: 40 Posts: 1,129 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	maeda, by bridge port do you mean the milling machines? if so, its bridgeport, named after the town in ct they were invented in almost anything can be done on a bridgeport, even more if it has the proto-trak attachment __________________ Ive spent most of my money on cars and women...the rest i wasted

05-24-2003, 03:33 PM	#21
sykikchimp WOW addicted Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: the moon Age: 40 Posts: 6,518 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	There's no such thing as an FB either. I think they were something like the SA or something. FB is not the correct chassis code though. If you say that on an RX-7 board.. they'll ream u, like we do newbies around here when they talk about their 180sx. lol __________________

05-24-2003, 05:24 PM	#22
mrmephistopheles Inactive Admin Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: BFE Age: 19 Posts: 14,334 Trader Rating: (9) Rides Gallery: mrmephistopheles Feedback Score: 9 reviews	**** i didn't even notice that.. I think it was SA2 or some such, but I don't recall 100%, plus I'm too lazy to google it.

05-24-2003, 06:09 PM	#23
zspturbo BANNED Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: saint louis Posts: 160 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	just want to put my little bit of info in here, but I was a member of rx7club.com/forums for a year and a half, and only knew of 2 people who were satisfied with their 13b in na form. if you are gonna go rotary, either go 12a because there is much more of an NA community for it, or get a low boost turbo 13b. thats my advice. edit: 1)it is "bridge port" because its a humongous port, with a small bit of supporting material called the "bridge" 2) if you run a bridge port, dont expect the engine to last very long 3) rx7 people say fb. 4) 20b does not overheat, unless you raise HP bigtime, run it rich, and have a tiny IC and a tiny Radiator. it is important with the 20b, just as with all other rotaries, to have a MASSIVE Radiator as well as IC. 5) there are multiple versions of the 13bt, one came in the fb, one in the S4 fc, and one in the s5 fc. after that it was renamed the REW. basically, when dealing with rotaries, the newer the engine is, the better it is. 6) soul assasins car has been featured car for like, a year and a half. it has made many a young man cream their pants. if you ever heard a video of it, it also probably made your ears bleed. Last edited by zspturbo; 05-24-2003 at 06:23 PM..

05-24-2003, 08:14 PM	#26
mrmephistopheles Inactive Admin Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: BFE Age: 19 Posts: 14,334 Trader Rating: (9) Rides Gallery: mrmephistopheles Feedback Score: 9 reviews	Thanks for clarifying, AKADriver... I didn't think it was FB...

05-24-2003, 08:19 PM	#27
Zemus Nissanaholic! Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Minneapols Age: 37 Posts: 2,268 Trader Rating: (0) Rides Gallery: Zemus Feedback Score: 0 reviews	hah When i mean i go thought engines, i mean i would be worried about doing that with the 13b. Also, this was an IDEA! not what im going to do. And this is just one of my many options. and dousan i got tires, i never said ** about rims. I just am saving for diff right now, then next thing will be engine power, I was at a event today, and I have no power out of the courners with the ka, NON! I want na power, and i love the way the rotory works, it was an idea. __________________ \|Ziptied.com\|Hybrid Z\|D-Town Forum\|Clubfr.net**\|

05-25-2003, 12:32 AM	#28
Andrew Bohan Post Whore! Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Location: Location Posts: 8,330 Trader Rating: (2) Feedback Score: 2 reviews	so if you put a 13b in an s-car, it would be a 130SX right?

05-25-2003, 05:52 AM	#29
AutoDestruct Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: The Burg, Harrisburg Posts: 437 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Good dreaming Oni don't let the haters get you. Dousan's so JDM'd out that he thinks he's in a higher class than us mere automotive mortals. I appreciate new ideas, or even the rediscussion of old ones. Keep up the good work. I for one will always have your back. Let us dream on. Personal expression and opinion are your rights as a citizen of a free country. as well as Dousans right to give critical commentary. sorry Dousan36 but you have to stay open minded.

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