mrchomponthis

i replaced the head gasket, sounds like i put the cam caps back in improper order. The timing is set properly i am kinda stuck please help! it doesn't wanna run sounds like its missing

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brndck

How does it "sound" like you put the cam caps in incorrectly? What does this "sound" like?
Did you fail to mark them or keep them organized while they were off the car?

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Boost_Fiend

When I was rebuilding my sr. The shims and guides were put in all mixed up. When I started the car it was running really bad. It sounded like the timing was off. Just put all the shims and guides in the correct spots and it was good. So check those

ashtonroche

That post above makes absolutely no sense. The shims dont "have" to go back in the same spot they came out of. There are hydraulic lifters for a reason, to self adjust valve lash. Every SR build ive done (countless) I have never put the original shims back in place and never had a problem. If its not running right or making top end noise you probably didnt pull the lifters out and bleed them correctly after putting the head back on. You could have a stuck lifter if its making noise. Shouldnt make it misfire though. If its misfiring your timing is either off at the cams or the CAS or both. Double check your work. Also make sure you have all your grounds hooked back up to the back side of the head mainly the main ground thats for the coils and several other components.

Boost_Fiend

Haha does it now? Do your homework. Sr heads are supposed to be reshimed when they are removed unless you put them back in the exact sport. From what I understand is they are subject to a good amount wear so they are all not going to be a uniform size. Hence why the sell a buch of different shim sizes. And that is not what I was referring to, I was suggesting that he may have have put the guides or shims on the wrong side (ie. putting a shim where a guide should be or vice versa).

mrchomponthis

They fell out of the box I had them organized in. The timing is set properly I'll post pics ASAP, thanks for the help guys.

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fliprayzin240sx

Is it even possible to put the cam caps backwards? Only thing I'd really worry about is putting the back ones in properly since those are the one that oil goes thru for the drippers.

Did you double check the mechanical timing? Its probably off if its not starting...

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ashtonroche

You would notice the rocker not sitting right if you put the grooved shim on the right leg instead of the left at least should recognize. As for shim wear and going back in the same spot. Have you ever measured the shims in an sr head? almost all of them are identical as far as thickness goes of the shim. Only time your supposed to reshim is when you do a valve job that the valve height may have changed up or down. Dont have to do jack when you remove the head. Ive built countless SR's and non have had any problems. Talking 10+ years of use now without issues. They have hydraulic lifters for a reason.

Reshim on valve job not head removal and it doesnt matter if you put a .0001 to .0005 difference in a shim in one place or another. Not going to matter one bit if the valves are untouched. On my last DE head I actually modified my rockers to accept two grooved guided shims instead of a shim and one guide shim. Reved to 9k on C2 cams with zero issues. No rocker arm stoppers, just springs and retainers and two grooved shims. Simple, effecting and no valvetrain noise or popping rockers. Rocker arm stoppers a whole other issue and not needed if you know what your doing.

mrchomponthis

i thought cam caps were specific to placement on the head. And yes i did put the two larger ones with oil squirter holes in the proper place. I think i may have put the shims in the wrong direction, I'll check tomorrow.

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Spencer dougherty

if u cant get it running right.. bring it by my shop and ill fix it for a little $$... sr's are easy for my.. work on them every day..and yes be care of those rocker arm they fall off the shims easy.

mrchomponthis

no thanks. but thanks for the offer

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mrchomponthis

can anyone confirm that the grooved shim goes on the right side?

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ashtonroche

Sorry my bad on the typo. The grooved shim goes on the left leg of the rocker not the right. You should be able to tell as the grooved shim will not even go all the way onto the right side rocker arm. The bottom of the leg will not sit on the flat surface of the shim.

On my det setup i actually did a twin grooved shim mod by shaving the right side outer part of the leg of the rocker until it slid down in the groove and the bottom rested on the flat surface of the grooved shim. Your rockers wont go anywhere with this modification and a good set of springs and retainers. No rocker arm stoppers required.

Anyways sorry for the typo but it should be pretty obvious where the grooved shim goes as the left leg is thinner than the right and will only go in properly on that side.

ashtonroche

As for the question about the cam caps. They arnt numberd but they are labeled for which side they go on. I for intake and i believe the exhaust ones dont have a stamp on them but they need to go back in their proper places. There are some that are the same but they are line bored from the factory and meant to go back in their same place. You might have cam wear issues if you dont put them back in the original spot.

codyace

You could have a plethora of things wrong, but it's hard to tell without video or pictures.


The shims only go on one side of the rocker, it's common sense. The cam caps are numbered as well.....you cant screw them up (well you can, but it's tough).

I'd reconfirm timing, and make sure the rest of the setup is correct/running well.

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mrchomponthis

Some people are telling me they go on the right some people are telling me they go on the left.... Who do believe lol? they fit well on both sides the rocker arm looks identical on both sides....

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ashtonroche

umm they shouldnt fit well on both sides of the rocker arm unless you have rocker arms that were modified by hand to fit into the grooved shim. One leg will fit down in the groove perfectly to where the bottom of the leg is resting on the flat surface, the other side will not do that, it will start to go on but will stop without touching the bottom. They go on the left leg from the factory. Ive been building sr's for over 10 years man. Countless. I typod my original post but they go on the left leg 100% sure no questions asked.

ashtonroche

I even went back and looked through my pictures and thread where I did the dual grooved shim setup and it was the right leg that i had to shave some off the outer part to get it to fit properly into the grooved shim.

mrchomponthis

pictures? please thanks

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ichihachizero

Make sure you measure shim clearance also

ashtonroche

Not needed, dont know how many times i have to say this. Reshimming is only necessary if a valve job is done and even then most of the time doesnt even need it if the machine shop sets the valve height correctly back to or at least close to stock height which any good shop should do during a valve job. The hydraulic lifters take care of the rest. Been there, done that. 9k reving DE head without rocker arm stoppers.

Anyways I dont know why you wont believe me about the grooved shims. If you put them on the wrong leg and bent them when you put the cams in then i could see how they would now fit on the right leg but this is what it normally does when you try to put the grooved shim on the right leg. You can clearly see it doesnt fit while the left leg fits in the shim perfectly as it should.












There, you can kinda see the right side arm ground down on the outside part of the leg to clear the shims. I dont know why you couldnt just take my word for it but whatever. Been doing this for a long time. Revved this head with BC springs and retainers, dual grooved shim, SR20VE oil pump which is higher pressure, higher volume and on stock lifters. 8700 rpm rev limiter and pounded it all day long. I raised it to 9100 for a bit just to see how it would do being power was still climbing with the t67 h.o. and never tossed a rocker. 9k head all day long with just springs and retainers and dual groove shims and a ve oil pump to help keep good high pressure on the lifters. Pretty simple stuff. Dont know why people have such an issue tossing rockers. Ive never had that issues but then again i know how to set up a proper head.

Now im on a VE head and dont even have to worry about floating rockers anymore, lol.

mrchomponthis

thanks now i just need to know the order of the cam caps any help there?

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codyace

\/ \/ \/


Should be numbered, and have arrows on them facing to the front of the engine (1 being the front, where the CAS is)

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Hashiriya415

@ashtonroche. Have you checked any of your clearance between rocker and cam lobe? What do you have?

ashtonroche

Yes, did so after the dual groove shim mod. All were within specs, dont remember the exact numbers of them but all were perfectly within spec. Again your hydraulic lifters will take care of any lash adjustment needed. As long as the your close you shouldnt have problems. I believe my clearance was .008" on the intake and .011 on the exhaust or so. Dont quote me. That was also measureing center of the rocker and left and right edges to make sure the rockers were level with the cam, which they all were. Again im not the first person to do this mod. A guy name Andreas on sr20-forum has been doing this for years and years. Great mod, your rockers wont go anywhere especially with a good set of aftermarket springs. The high volume/high pressure VE oil pump helps a lot too. Good mod for you rwd guys. You will have to drill one hole and tap it for one of the top bolts but other than that it bolts right onto the rwd block. You have to modify the pickup tube as well for rwd application. But no biggie and well worth the extra security.

TheRealSy90

Ashton, come do dual groove shims on my head before you go back to Texas

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Asil

Can anyone help me find RR lifters and grooved shims?
Or any advice how can i prevent rocker arm breaking at rev cut? VVL head is an expensive option.