chiboy002

hey guys, i searched and alot of the stuff were for events, so that means little information so i didnt bother reading. I was drifting in the rain yesterday, so i can learn car control for a start, and my car just kept doing 180s. i have an s13 hatch with mild suspension, full battleverson and stance gr+, and all stealth custom fab braces. I just wanna know what i can do to help prevent it from oversteering, cause at some points my car did a full 360*! haha

i did the same runs today on dry road, of course this is all in a parking lot, and it is much easier but i was going relatively slow. I think, if i remember correctly, i should pull the ebrake to stop oversteer from going to far?

thanks guys

GSXRJJordan

Correct (countersteer) faster. As long as there's nothing hugely wrong with your alignment (like major toe out in the back), just initiate harder, countersteer sooner, drift. Practice practice practice.

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REVOisGO

lifting and countersteering will stop you from spinning out, and thats not foolproof. ebrake should only be used to initiate REALLY big corners, to extend a drift (another fast technique), or to get you out of trouble (spin you out to aviod a wall).

you wont learn car control by drifting in the rain, so dont do it. it will teach you how to drift slow and wrong.

keep it off the streets, and go to an event. you will be amazed how fast you learn, and people can give you advice as well.

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chiboy002

well, i have the tendency to countersteer to lock, since i don't have a guided road to follow so i just go around in a C. My alignment was freshly done though, and then i raised the front 1/2mm over the size of the coilover wrenches, so about 7mm height change, just fronts. to counter steer sooner, should i be countersteering while clutching in after the clutch kick or wait till i feel the tail slight out more?

well, i am broke and looking for a helmet and chicago events are 100$ registration fees. i dont have that kind of money :/ but i do hit n quit in my schools parking lot, which is huge and never has cars in it (no lie)

but i barely ever use my ebrake to initiate because i don't wanna rely on it too much and because it isn't strong enough, i havent tightened it

whats lifting? and so pulling the ebrake will cause me to spin out during mid drift?

shiftdrift

actually, if you can find an OPEN parking lot that you can slide around in that's a great place to learn basic stuff, despite what people say. in the rain and snow is a GREAT place to learn car control during drifting and i like to slide everytime it rains.

REVOisGO

well, being broke and wanting to drift should be more of a concern than wanting to learn how to drift....

drifting costs A LOT. especially when you decide to get rid of your KA. getting tires, mounting them, shit you break when you mess up, it all costs a lot. a lot more than you really want to put into a $2000 car....

but heres my first question, do you have a welded diff? if you are trying to drift on an open differential, stop right now, pull your diff out, and take it somewhere to get it welded. drifting on an open diff is pointless. you will spin out once you get into a drift, straighten out if you do get into a drift, and it will not teach you anything.

to answer your question, lifting is simply taking your foot off the gas pedal.

pulling the ebrake and turning away from your countersteer will cause you to spin out. for example, you are drifting a left turn, your wheels are turned to the right, and you want to spin out because you are about to hit something. you yank your ebrake, and turn your wheel away from your countersteer (you turn it left in this case). then, you spin out. learning how to properly use your ebrake will save your ass eventually. tighten up that ebrake and get a drift button.

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chiboy002

thats what i was under the impression of!

well, i have money on hand, roughly 1k, for broken parts ONLY (this money will not be going into anything else, it is simply a security fund)

i do have a welded diff

oh ok, so pretty much the only way to counteract oversteering past the point of no return is to just let off the gas and keep heavy counter steer? Cause i've been watching drift bible, i know its old but its good, and reading driftsessions.com stuff and i thought you just kept throttle like medium to mild? What if i initiate and my back slides out too soon? thats what my problem was, i didn't even have enough time to let off the throttle to recover, my the time i had my wheels turned, i was already facing the wrong way... counter steer faster?? cause the problem what i think would be, let off throttle then you grip and lose drift, is there a way to do it without not drifting? or is that too advanced for me?

also, i dont want a spin turn nob lol, i wanna get used to pulling up and pushing down the ebrake, although it takes time, its just another one of those "cheats" that i don't want to rely on (i don't even want to touch my ebrake for that matter )


swapping ka out? ARE YOU CRAZY?!?! ALL MOTOR F T W! one day you will all recognize me as one of the few, the proud, that has successfully built a ka-de all motor no boost. :P

azndoc

I don't understand why you wouldn't want to use your e-brake. What's the deal with people thinking the e-brake is the most evil thing.

E-brake drifting is the easiest shit in the world. Especially if your doing it in the rain. I'm actually going to take time out and write this shit out for you now.

For beginners the most important thing you need to learn is being comfortable in the car while your driving. Staying calm and analyzing your surroundings and situation is the key.

Not saying you should street drift, but if you find yourself in an open parking lot grab a cone or something that you can use as a reference point.

Place the cone in the middle and that is what you will be doing the most important thing as a beginner. Donuts, fucking do donuts all fucking day if you have to. It's the most basic foundation for you. You will learn the following.
1.) Steering control, you don't need a lot of steering wheel movement when you are doing donuts. Just small movements is fine.
2.) Throttle control- Finding the match between the throttle control and steering control is the key and really hard, but it all takes practice.
3.) Learning to be comfortable sideways. This is also important because if you can't even stay calm doing donuts then you will have a hard time connecting a corner with a clipping point.

Doing donuts will help you out so much. And after you have mastered doing donuts move onto figure eights to help you learn how to transition.

A lot of times people initiate into a corner, but they don't let the steering wheel counter and just give too much gas at the same time which will cause you to spin. Its all about learning the basics and moving from there.

Good luck.

REVOisGO

yeah, you and every other kid without enough money to do a decent swap.

i went through 3 ka's, an sr20, and now im getting rid of my rb25. the sr20 and the rb25 were fine, the KA's blew up. you'll learn eventually. its not worth it for me to type out.

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all show no go

Indeed. The rain is the best time.. Pace yourself & get familiar with the feeling of the car

being sideways. Like Azndoc said also, Donuts will set the foundation for your steering & gas

feel skills, Figure 8's help with anticipating when to give it gas & how much countersteer

you'll need to catch the weight of the car as it comes back around. While you are practicing

learning the feel of these you'll gradually start learning how to maintain dying drifts & how to

correct mistakes. It's all seat time, nothing more.

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zugoi

how about you just learn how to drive?How you gunna search "how to drift" . i can explain heart surgery over the internet. Does that mean you are gunna be able to do it?

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Silverbullet

two most important things i learned when i first started drifting was:

1. dont fight the car when counter steering. The car will steer itself, you need to just guide the wheel.

2. don't give it too much gas after initial traction loss!!

You can learn and read everything online, but its not going to teach you how to drive. You cant just follow A B and C instructions, its about going out there and practicing. You need to feel how much Gs you car can pull and from there you can determine if your giving too much or too little of everything. its all muscle memory really.

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chiboy002

i just don't want to be reliant on my ebrake. as well as the fact that only one caliper piston pops out so it doesnt lock up the rears pretty well... but man thanks for those tips. im going to find a decent place to do so, the school parking lot is 1mile from a cop station
how bout you stay out of my thread if your no help? have you never looked on zilvia for some help on something your stuck on? have you never asked a superior for some help on something you don't understand? have you never gone to school? going on driftsessions.com has given me more answers than questions. there are great tips on there and i don't expect just reading to teach me how to be a forumla d winner. so please, think before you post.
i think the gas is my main issue cause when i was in the rain i would just stomp the pedal, but the day after when it was dry and i took it out i had a bit more control over the throttle and it seemed to follow my directions
wuuutt? when getting into a donut, how should i? just drive in a circle then whip it out some time during the circle, or like drive into it? i know its a dumb question but w.e

i would have had enough money to swap 2 motors into my car, had i not gone about this all the right way and built my suspension before touching the motor. i don't want to swap a motor into my car cause im not really about speed or power (until later.) i just want to learn my car better before i start doing motor mods. as well as, i don't want to lose the reliability of my ka, stock car with original motor is the best you can get. no matter how well you swap a motor it, its not going to be the same. especially with having to hack up the harness, fuck that man its just too many things that can go wrong. not until i have money to pay a top-notch shop to do it, i won't consider. and i'd just build the ka to get no more than 250hp. thats enough for me

ericcastro

This


Not so much this.



Rain is by far the worse time to learn imo.
And figure 8's arent for " anticipating when to give it gas & how much countersteer ".
Figure 8's are for learning to transition.


donuts teach you how to hold a single corner.
figure 8's teach you how to go from one corner to the next.

Use the Ebrake, I do, even with low HP.

As stated above, seat time.
The ebrake will not stop you from spinning out.
Make sure when the car starts to slide, that you let go of the steering wheel and grab it when your car has reached the angle you want.
I usually lift off the gas a bit as I grab the wheel, that helps it to "set".
Where you look, is where your car will go.
Make sure you are close enough to the wheel that your arms never have to fully extend.

You will not be able to drift if you cant consistenly do controled donuts. You may slide a corner, but you wont have control and your exit will be all snappy looking and not smooth.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by 9K∙RACING™ If you were such a baller and had standards you wouldn't be on this forum..

ranger240

simple answer, buy a fwd car, oversteering problems solved

serious simple answer, buy a book or two on vehicle dynamics/driving. you'll learn tons and will be a safer driver... giving more gas when the back end is light in a turn'll help gain traction... you need to read up on weight transfer and stuff

you should NOT pull the handbrake to stop a slide, if anything that'll just cause more oversteer

this book is a great intro book for general car control
Amazon.com: Speed Secrets: Professional Race Driving Techniques (9780760305188):…

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essforteen

You Forgot To Say
"You Got to Commit!!"

Listen to Jack's advice he knows what he is doing!!

all show no go

I feel it is best, but it's okay everyone has their own opinions. The reason I like the rain a little better is that I already know how delicate I would have to be to drift something at a rain event or something. I've seen a lot of folks that learned on dry surfaces have a much harder time to drift in the rain while I feel right at home. Just saying..




I see what you're sayin' Castro, maybe I picked lousy words or didn't go into too much detail.

What I mean is, yes a transition into the next corner OR around the other cone (figure 8's). By anticipating I meant to say that if you don't learn the timing to let the car's weight come back when you need it to, the line of the drift into the next turn (figure 8) could be too short, or could be difficult to keep the momentum of the car in control and in a good rpm range to keep the wheels spinning.

Timing & rhythm of the transition to sum it up




Agreed, it's handy and has plenty of function in many situations.

Someone else said it's like trying to explain heart surgery over the internet. There's just too many things you have to do yourself & get the feel for things. You'll have your own driving style, preferences, techniques, & difficulties. Just keep practicing & don't get discouraged because there's a lot of stuff you have to be aware of. Oh & you said something about starting donuts.. try this, I posted this video earlier but it's a simple way to get donuts started.

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hOngsterr

buy the drift bible, that is all.

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fckillerbee

come to a 626 drift event and I will teach you in a day!



DONE!





if you can't do that, listen to jack (azndoc)




DONE!





p.s. Hi castro! haahahaha

titangts

just remember...point your tires in the direction you want to go... and do it quickly. heavy throttle is no good untill you have the drift. lift in tight turns.

ericcastro

Drifting in rain is totally a different technique then dry.
The way your car reacts in rain and dry can be totally oposite depending.

Thats why i say its bad.
It teaches you the wrong reaction.

When I am coming on a inside clip to close in rain, I can throttle and loose more traction that way to slide by without pushing myself forwards.

If I do that in dry, I will go even more inside. The proper dry technique would be to yank the ebrake and stop your forwards momentum.
In the rain, a ebrake would spin you out.

If you are in a giant parking lot, it prolly makes no difference.
But I you are on the street, going to close by a foot on the inside means your fucked.

just my 2cents.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by 9K∙RACING™ If you were such a baller and had standards you wouldn't be on this forum..

240XTC

Yes, I like this gentlemans style.....and a + 1 for rain

Perfect Balance

Honestly, I think you're fucked dude. You need to understand how it works before you do it. It's not something you just "try" until you get better at it. If you don't know what to do, you'll never get it, or you will "kind of" learn how to do it, and just spend the rest of your time getting better at doing it wrong.

Watch the drift bible, read up on how drifting works, learn to feel your car and when it's sliding. Drifting is proactive, not reactive. You need to know what the car is going to do, and act ahead of time to make it do what you want. You countersteer as the car begins to slide, you don't wait until it's sideways and start cranking the wheel.

Most of all I'd say quit "trying" to drift. Let the car do what it wants to do. If you can figure this out, you can set the car up for corners so it will go through them correctly without you doing anything but letting go of the steering wheel and catching it again at the right time. I can't stress letting go of the steering wheel enough. Let the car do it's thing, your job is to learn what it takes to make it "do it's thing" in the direction you want it to.

EDIT: Also, you shouldn't have welded the diff until you had a feel for the car. Welding the diff helps keep long drifts going, but now you've got to adjust for a car that wants to understeer, and then when it finally oversteers, any throttle input makes it oversteer even harder. With an open diff you would have still had a car that turns in well, while still being able to drift pretty much anything under 180 degrees. Not to mention you would have learned the importance of carrying speed into a corner instead of just getting on the throttle once you're in a corner.

fckillerbee

okay...if you are learning, start out doing dougnuts like jack said. Probably the most important thing I can teach a person while doing dougnuts, is don't worry too much about the gas, and focus the most attention on the steering wheel...full throttle, burn those tires, but make sure you are pointing the car, and when you see that it rotates too much, you went to far. Its a learning experience for sure.

FYI...the drift bible did nothing for me...damn hand over hand drifting....no noob can hand over hand fast enough...shit, i don't even try.

come to an event, stop wasting your time trying to find answers to something that requires you sitting in a racing seat and not your computer seat. This thread doesn't need to keep going on.

Perfect Balance

The drift bible is good for learning entry techniques, the line, the timing. I don't literally mean going out there and try to copy what he does with his hands and feet.

Going out there and sitting in the racing seat does nothing for him if he doesn't know what to do. If you do it wrong, you'll just get good at doing it wrong. If you understand how it works first, you can go and apply it.

Doughnuts are good I guess, but I started with an open diff, so no doughnuts for me.

fckillerbee

that is why I said come out to an event, and get some seat time. I'm also an instructor for 626 drift, we tend to be the more reckless of the groups, but we are really good at helping people drift from start to finish.

i'll teach you.

chiboy002

no thanks, im not a quitter. but something i definitely need to look into steering dynamics and shit, thats something ive overlooked.

thanks man, ill look at the video

seen it 3 times, doesnt really help besides "fundamentals." Keiichi is a pro, he doesnt teach you how to start drifting he just teaches you the techniques. he leaves many gaps in between for a beginner to fill in with unknown knowledge (if that makes sense) and so it causes them to go about it the wrong way. its like a pro teaching a newb how to be a pro without taking years of practice. he didn't elaborate on starting, he just showed u what to do and expects it to work

fixed. and dude id love to go to cali events, but im rarely ever out there... lol. and clubfr (main event sponsor and runner in illinois) barely has any this year, theres like 7 max that are within 4 hour drive from my house. and all of them are 100$ entry costs, thats alot of $ for just 1 event man, you cali guys have it good for 35$ and shit i see, but thats the only advantage to cali living :P

yeah, cause i did notice when in the rain i could just stomp the pedal and i would begin to slide out, and then steering was not really there (for the amount of skill i have) but when i did it on dry road it was much easier to control. rain, imo, would only be good once you have a good ground to work off, since it really lacks controlling the car. i think?

mother fucker, i was told drifting was worthless without a welded by the people around here.. risky devil guys LOL. fuuuuuuuuuuuuuck, oh well. something i must over come, right? ok, i understand your point of the letting the wheel go and doing its thing cause i watched this roadatlanta vid, in car footy, and all the guy does is counter a bit then lets the wheel go and catches then whips it back. i don't really understand that, cause his wheel spins so easily but ill find out. what i dont really get is how should i do throttle control? do i just keep it at a steady rpm range, for example mid drift no more than 4-5k rpm, or do i just stomp it, or do i let it off the throttle? (drift bible kinda hints at that iirc)

drift bible doesnt do much for me either, as elaborated above







Sorry guys for the lack of participation on my part in my own thread and multiple quoted replies. it must get annoying. im stuck between finals and getting small kinks out of my car so i have been really busy, as well as not being home for a few days. ill be here somewhat but if you have some good input id appreciate it and i will respond accordingly within a few days at the most. Thanks for all the help and i am looking forward to more! one day when i make it big, i will reimburse all of you.... lol

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thefro526

I had similar issues when I was learning how to drift back when I had my first S13.

I would get the car sideways and throw it to lock and spin out. I knew it wasn't a steering angle issue, or anything of the sort so I looked at my driving and I realized that I would go in too fast, stay in the throttle too long, and not countersteer fast enough. Also - I found that most of my problems were because I wasn't being forced to follow a line.

My suggestion to you would be to go to an event, and let someone else drive your car. This will tell you if it's a car issue or your driving. It sounds to me like a driving issue - no offense. Then, if it is your driving, then ask an instructor to ride a long with you. If you get someone who knows their stuff, they can completely turn your driving around in just a few runs.

But, if that's not an available or viable option for you (if it's not, you should re-assess your priorities) then a large piece of open pavement is good enough to learn the basics. What I usually suggest beginners do is 3 easy things:

1) Learn how to do a donut while maintaining a constant radius. Go get a cone, a cheap plastic chair, an inflatble doll, etc. and do some donuts around it. The key here is to try to maintain a constant distance between you and the object.

2) Once you're good at doing donuts at a constant radius, try varying it a little bit. Learn how to get closer and further away from the object in a controlled fashion. This will teach you the basics of adjusting your line mid-drift.

3) After that, go get another object and space them out a reasonable distance, I'd say about 100 - 125ft for a low powered a car, assuming you have plenty of space to wipe out at that spacing, and do figure 8's around them. This teaches you how to transition along with holding a drift.

If you've gotten through those three things, it's really time you look at going to an event, because realistically, that's the only way you're really going to improve to the next level.

Btw, the above steps were how I was taught, after I spent 4 of 5 months failing at drifting. I'm not saying it made me good or anything, but it was good enough to get me to understand some of the basic concepts.

chiboy002

thanks man, i really appreciate this help. its more in depth than just do donuts. i know my driving skill is low, since im a new driver, but we all start somewhere and i do have experience driving some kinda shit, go karts in the winter , im almost positive there arent any instructors at the clubfr events, mainly its just a bunch of low key drifters and some risky devils guys. they're willing to teach me basics but theyre not really up to ride along because they have better things to do.

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street dancer.

slider2828

The drift bible has practicing techniques for beginners....

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