I got my sway bars.

[HaLo]

Finally ordered them, and received them.

The roll cage is in, the battery is getting relocated and the Tanabe sway bars will get installed shortly. Everything is going as planned.

http://www.apaspeed.com/oktay/sway.jpeg

[s13irdie2]

put it on and tell us how it feels!! im getting the same ones next week. btw, what roll cage are you putting in? custom? and is it welded on the chassis or just bolted on. keep us updated!

[nlzmo400r]

What size are those sways? Are they adjustable?

[HaLo]

Size: 30.4mm front, 22mm rear. They are not adjustable.

Even if I put them on now, I won't be driving the car before April, there's still some snow outside..

As for the roll cage, I installed an autopower 6pt bolt-in cage.

[s13irdie2]

icic. forgot that you were in canada. doh! :)

[slivia-junkie]

i have the rear sway bar it feels real nice you will like it

[s13irdie2]

does it help with the understeer at all?

[thx247]

does it help with the understeer at all?

just get a larger rear bar or disconnect your front bar and that will answer your question.

[Dousan_PG]

hot tanabe sways rule!!
i like alot of the tanabe stuff

got my tanabe DDs here now too, going on this week
let us know how it goes buddy!!! :)

[HaLo]

Turns out my Tanabe came out less expensive than the Whitelines. :) I am pretty happy about it. Can't wait to install them and test them on a race course. :D

[Dousan_PG]

yep thats why i got mine
SO CHEAP its nuts
and they rule
feel great. love them. you will too!

[HaLo]

What did you do for the endlinks? I got some energy suspension bushings for the moment. Will that turn out "ok" or solid endlinks are a must?

[Dousan_PG]

i had some newer ones from when i swapped shells, just some generic auto parts store one, dirt cheap.

solid endlinks would be nice but damn, ive lived over 2.5 years w/o them, so im not really thinking ll miss them

damn coilovers so stiff i dont feel like spending the extra money on such item. the bushings are in good shape, so no worries, imo.

id rather use that money for adj FLCAs haha

[HaLo]

That's real good to know. I wasn't planning on spending money on solid endlinks either. Got more work to do to the car before... I need to dyno tune it, get my custom alignment done, replace some bushings... This car is a money pit. :p

BTW, I still have your Apex-i Multichecker and it still works great. I love it. ;)

[Dousan_PG]

always is. haha i hate my car. its a POS
but soon to be mega badass...at least thats what i kep telling myself

haha

glad the multichecker is still tip top!!!

get adj arms! they rule, biggest differece you could do next to coilovers and sways..then again there isnt much else left, but im not sure what the auto-x limitations are

[HaLo]

Both front and rear arms? I was planning on the rear before the front... but not that soon!

And in SM, there isn't a lot of limits to the mods I am allowed to do. ;) But then again, I am running iffy D2 coilovers (I know you hate them. ;) )

[Dousan_PG]

rears the usual 3 is best imo
i lovve toe links and rucas the best, espeically the toe links what a differnce!

i just like giving people crap haha..coilovesr are coilovesr if they work, use them, better then shock/spring combo that sucks!

[HaLo]

The problem with Hicas, Aaron, is that I can't do all three unless I change the rear subframe. The aftermarket toe links are incompatible, I dunno about the traction rods, but the RUCAs are compatible.

Now, I'll let you in a secret... I might be ditching my Hicas one day for weight purposes and adjustment possibilities, even though I like having HICAS on my car.

D2 coilovers aren't great... But they are way better than my AGX / Ground Control combo I had before. If I buy another set of coilovers, I might be looking at Tein RAs. ;)

[hurleyboi514]

very nice... ive got quite a bit happening this week too. im getting my aero painted (same lip, but this one is real bomex and changed skirts from the bomex to stock though b/c of class rule changes). im gonna run the same wing for now, i may go to a kouki though. also, ive got a 13 lb dry cell coming in tomorrow, ive been meaning to do that for quite some time. my battery is giving up the ghost after 3 years of abuse, haha! then, ive got to install the rest of my bushings. ive got them in the upper control arms, i just need to install them in the lower control arms and the rear uprights. i probably wont get to that until later this month. when i do that, id like to change my sway bar bushings to spherical units (class legal! :)). after that, i should be set for awhile. if i dont like that set up, ive got a set of 8k springs in reserve, so i may switch to an 8/7 set up when Mike gets the revised D2 shocks. mine are holding up great, but it never hurts to have spare dampers!! :)

[nlzmo400r]

The problem with Hicas, Aaron, is that I can't do all three unless I change the rear subframe. The aftermarket toe links are incompatible, I dunno about the traction rods, but the RUCAs are compatible.

Now, I'll let you in a secret... I might be ditching my Hicas one day for weight purposes and adjustment possibilities, even though I like having HICAS on my car.

D2 coilovers aren't great... But they are way better than my AGX / Ground Control combo I had before. If I buy another set of coilovers, I might be looking at Tein RAs. ;)

What are the pro's about having the hicas on your car? Does it help at all in the autoX's? Also, what dont you like about your d2 coilovers. Just curious as you're wanting to get different ones.

[North240]

D2 coilovers aren't great... But they are way better than my AGX / Ground Control combo I had before. If I buy another set of coilovers, I might be looking at Tein RAs. ;)

Now i am no Coilover expert, but i thought i would toss in my $.02 the way you hammer on your car i wouldnt pick up the Tein's, their twin-tube design has been prone to blowouts and their dampening isn't linear for the most part. I would look into something different for the money. Unless that wink meant sarcasm and i completely missed it?

[98sr20ve]

Now i am no Coilover expert, but i thought i would toss in my $.02 the way you hammer on your car i wouldnt pick up the Tein's, their twin-tube design has been prone to blowouts and their dampening isn't linear for the most part. I would look into something different for the money. Unless that wink meant sarcasm and i completely missed it?

Tein RA's are monotube. Also, very stiff. I do not know if the wink meant he was kidding or not.

I am very interested in the bars and your thoughts on the balance with your setup. I may get a Tanabe for one end and the whiteline for the other just to have some level of easy adjustment. IIRC that front bar is the thickest you can get. I know progress just came out with a set as well but I don't know the specs at this time.

[HaLo]

if i dont like that set up, ive got a set of 8k springs in reserve, so i may switch to an 8/7 set up when Mike gets the revised D2 shocks. mine are holding up great, but it never hurts to have spare dampers!! :)

I ws planning to switch to 9/7 right now. My coilovers were a little bit noisy, but not that much. I wonder how we can apply for that recall.

[HaLo]

Concerning the coilovers, I was not kidding. You wouldn't believe how other coilovers tested independently on a shock dyno. I would never touch JIC, would never go back to a "cheap" homemade production (D2, KTS, Megan, SPL, etc..). The only proven coilover to me is Tein. And the RAs is the stiffest there, so it's the most interesting to me. ;)

As for the balance... I made some calculations compared to my HICAS sway bars:
Tanabe front is 377% stiffer.
Tanabe rear is 141% stiffer.
Stock balance is 1.37:1 (front:rear)
Tanabe balance is 3.65:1 (front:rear)

You make your own judgements. ;)

[North240]

Concerning the coilovers, I was not kidding. You wouldn't believe how other coilovers tested independently on a shock dyno. I would never touch JIC, would never go back to a "cheap" homemade production (D2, KTS, Megan, SPL, etc..). The only proven coilover to me is Tein. And the RAs is the stiffest there, so it's the most interesting to me. ;)



I seem to recall Tein not testing well on the shock dyno either, i agree JIC sux, but i truely believe you will kill those teins. I have a good impression of the KTS' so far but further testing needs to be done. I still think that for the money there are better options. But thats OT, back on topic nice sways, let us know what driving impressions are when you run them this spring. I know the drill for winter i live in Maine.

[sykikchimp]

Concerning the coilovers, I was not kidding. You wouldn't believe how other coilovers tested independently on a shock dyno. I would never touch JIC, would never go back to a "cheap" homemade production (D2, KTS, Megan, SPL, etc..). The only proven coilover to me is Tein. And the RAs is the stiffest there, so it's the most interesting to me. ;)

As for the balance... I made some calculations compared to my HICAS sway bars:
Tanabe front is 377% stiffer.
Tanabe rear is 141% stiffer.
Stock balance is 1.37:1 (front:rear)
Tanabe balance is 3.65:1 (front:rear)

You make your own judgements. ;)

You don't think that'll make the car push like a pig?

also, are the endlinks length adjustable? (think preload..) If not, you'll need adjustable length links to properly corner weight the car.

Hooray for Christmas!!1 :p

[HaLo]

You don't think that'll make the car push like a pig?

also, are the endlinks length adjustable? (think preload..) If not, you'll need adjustable length links to properly corner weight the car.

Hooray for Christmas!!1 :p

I had some miscalculations, sorry, here is the corrected info:

As for the balance... I made some calculations compared to my HICAS sway bars:
Tanabe front is 321% stiffer.
Tanabe rear is 141% stiffer.
Stock (Hicas) balance is 1.61:1 (front:rear)
Tanabe balance is 3.65:1 (front:rear)

To a normal 240sx (15mm rear sway bar):
Tanabe front is 321% stiffer.
Tanabe rear is 486% stiffer.
Stock (Non-Hicas) balance is 5.52:1 (front:rear)
Tanabe balance is 3.65:1 (front:rear)

Basically, compared to stock, the car will oversteer more. Compared to hicas, the car will understeer more.


Tanabe sway bars use the stock endlinks... (non-adjustable ones)

[nlzmo400r]

i'll just wait till you actually drive on them to hear your review. If i had crap loads of money to do coilovers again, id probably get something like Aragosta's. I looked at the Tein RA's, but they're just kinda pricey. Oh, and i had NO idea the hicas bars were that much thicker than factory non hicas ones. It seems like itd be better for you to just use the rear bar, and keep your factory front.

[HaLo]

I think I can still correct this with damping and negative camber. Going for -3 in front, -1.5 in rear.

[chuy]

I got the Tanabes too Im trying to find somewhere else that has solid endlinks other then SPL. $375 ish is about what I paid for the swaybars in the first place

[Dousan_PG]

whats wrong w/ SPL?
you gotat pay the goods to get the goods

[publicenemy137]

SPL KTS's are nice, SPLs are known to be a solid company that makes quality parts

[thx247]

You could probably roll your own,

8 12.9 grade socket head bolts -$2
4 rod end ball joints,female threaded $9-20
4 rod end ball joint, male threaded $9-20
4 nuts to hold the ball joint in place -$1
8 spacers, could be nuts or similar -$1
8 nuts to hold the sway bar to the endlink. -$1

The only thing you'd need to find out is the loads the endlinks endure. It could be as cheap as $82 or as expensive as $170. (This is for the whole car btw)

There are other ways to make them too, for packaging reasons you could change the above to use a ball joint linkage instead or whatever.

[hurleyboi514]

Halo, where did you purchase your D2's from?? Im good friends with Mike from D2 USA/Urban Import. He dates a friend of mine, and has stayed at my apartment a few times, so its pretty easy to get a hold of him, haha! if you have any problems getting the warranty, maybe i can help you around it. no guarantee's, but ill see what i can do...

[HaLo]

I dealt with Mark from Advautoparts iirc. Now, what are the conditions for the recall? Noisy shocks? that's all?

[hurleyboi514]

i think its a recall for all shocks made before a certain production, which isnt till like late this year, so it basically covers any D2's sold in NA. supposedly they are blowing out seals when used under a certain temperature.

[HaLo]

I see... I have to send the coilovers back at my cost I believe right? What is the turnaround?

[hurleyboi514]

nah, they are sending out all new shock bodies i believe. i think you may just have to cover shipping...

[HaLo]

All right... time to contact Mark then. ;)

[Rennen]

Speaking of swaybars.... *puts on hijacker's ski mask*

I saw that Progress is coming out with a new set of sway bars for the S13 in the newest issue of Sport Compact Car.

From the picture, they are 3-way adjustable and have solid endlinks with spherical metal bushings. Looks like a nice piece.

Anyone have any info on these? I just emailed Progress, hopefully they are done with development so they can give me some specs.

-Matt

[98sr20ve]

They are 27mm Front and 22 Rear. 289 a piece.

[Var]

i just took my front sway bar off. cost me 0 dollars. It feels nicer now. I would ditch front sway for auto-x

[jmauld]

Removing the front sway bar on a RWD car is not the thing to do. You are giving up overall grip in an attempt to make the car feel more balanced.

[Var]

Removing the front sway bar on a RWD car is not the thing to do. You are giving up overall grip in an attempt to make the car feel more balanced.

the rear end loses grip faster now. the front end grips forever. i'm gonna put better tires in the rear and it should balance out

[thx247]

Removing the front sway bar on a RWD car is not the thing to do. You are giving up overall grip in an attempt to make the car feel more balanced.


He's probably gaining more mechanical grip this way than any other way. I would have run this way on a stock suspension at the track if my rear tires didn't lift up and spin (torsen diff)

Since he has SPRINGAZZZ and stuff, that way will work fine for now. Probably needs a higher rate spring to get close to needing no bars front or rear. Or he could get a stiffer rear bar and run the stock bar up front. Upping the rear spring rates alot to run no bar back there could spell trouble for putting power down in corners though, I don't have any power so I don't know about that issue.

[Var]

this is on my stock SOHC KA car...and i have RA1's on it. but the inside tire still spins, once again confirming that vlsd are useless

[jmauld]

Are you saying you do this on a Stock suspension car?

If so, this is definitely the wrong way to go. It is possible to use springs to not need swaybars, but with a stock suspension, you are just going to lose overall grip. I did about a half year on the stock front swaybar and otherwise stock suspension. That setup resulted in me killing the outside edge of my front tires. I added a bigger front swaybar which kept the car more level and resulted in keeping the tire flatter while cornering.

Without a front swaybar, you are almost guaranteed to be giving up grip due to the amount of positive camber gained on the outside front tire. If you doubt this, get pictures of the car loaded in a corner, with and without the front bar.

You are also giving up response time in transitions such as slaloms.

[Var]

I'm not using stock suspension and i have -2.5º Camber. Rates are 6.7k/5.5k with pillow ball mounts and the front doesnt really sway all that much more..it just rotates faster and steering response is crazy. The front end doesnt get unsettled over bumps anymore and steering feels a lot "lighter".

A perfect car wouldnt use sway bars...they are just a convenience for the manufacturer

[thx247]

a perfect car is only perfect in perfect conditions for said car. Hence the need for sways

[jmauld]

A perfect car on a perfect track might not use swaybars. Unfortunately, no matter what springrate you pick, we are not dealing with either one of those. Check out some of the production-car based car races and pay attention to the swaybars they use. They're huge and some of them are also adjustable from the cockpit! :eek3:

I think the springrates that you are using are pretty low to be running without a front bar, I'd still like to see a picture of the front of your car, while loaded in a corner.

I've got a Test & Tune coming up at the end of this month. You've got me interested enough to disconnect each swaybar on seperate runs. We should be setting up a skid pad area, so it would be interesting to collect data on each setup. Just need to find someone with a g-force meter that I can borrow.

[98sr20ve]

SOME NASA SE-R cup racers swear by the no front bar combo. BUT to work they run 600lb spring in a 2300lb car. With 500lb springs they use a front bar. Transistions are going to be much slower with out a bar so for autocrossing this makes little sence. But for roadcourse stuff you don't have as quick of transitions sometimes so you can give this up to gain some traction on the inside wheel in the front.

[Var]

Ok guys i just got back from the mountains this morning..i was out for 3 hrs testing the new setup. No front sway feels so friggin awesome. There were 4 roads we drove. One consisted of haripins for about 6 miles straight. Really harsh terrain and not friendly for stiff suspension. another road was smooth road with the fastest turn being about 70mph but usually about 40-60. another was high speed sweepers and the other was 50mph range again.

The hairpin road was so much better than last week. My front end definitely doesnt get jarred as much. It's the kind of road where you have to anticipate the turn-in because there are bumps and dips right before the turn. So you hit a bump then anticipate when your front end will re-gain traction and quickly turn in to make it through. My front end caught less air this time around and i went a lot faster overall.

The high speed section 80+ is where you really feel the floaty feeling, but it still seems to grip more.

The 50mph range is smooth as butter and it feels like i can go faster and faster.

Trailbraking is soooo sex with this setup. the car rotates when you need it to and the steering wheel fights you less. i likey.. but i dont think i would use this for road race/drift. Only twisties and auto-x

[s13irdie2]

i wanna go to some mountains and test out my car!! im jealous. can anyone tell me some good ones in socal. pretty please!!

[thx247]

Why not for track use?

[Var]

Why not for track use?


Just for my setup. I think i'd need stiffer springs in the front to go faster without getting too much roll

[thx247]

It stands to reason that if the car feels good at 50mph, its going to be good at 90mph too. Maybe you should come out and test it on the 21st? 2 spots left lolololol

[Var]

Vegas sucked me dry..i'm gonna wait till the last minute. If there's a spot open i'll think about it

[Twinturbozs]

where did you guys purchase your Tanabes?