General politics discussion. Keep it civil.

[mrmephistopheles]

It was decided to let the 2020 election thread die, but it's still important to discuss ongoing affairs.

Antisocial behavior is unlikely to be tolerated.

[mav1178]

The fallout from 2020 + Wednesday that no one is talking about:

March 2020 till about Sep or Oct, there was a massive hack of the federal government infrastructure. I don't care who you blame, President Trump was not really talking about this and no one seems to understand how massive this sets us back as a country.

And then Wednesday... lost in all the talk about who did what was the glaring fact that for about 3-4 hours, the entire US Capitol building was open to anyone that was able to get in. Many senators and representatives sit on committees with access to sensitive information (since they control budgeting and oversight of national defense, intelligence, etc), so if you wanted to go in and take stuff, or plant bugs, or whatever, that was the perfect cover to do whatever you wanted.

The fallout from this will be hidden from public view and damaging for years, if not decades to come...

[brndck]

PONIES. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210110/5aff47ff91473fb97c307018493ee9df.jpg

[Phlip]

I'll have a go...
I had the news on the TV Wednesday afternoon to follow the joint session live. I wound up watching a riot live on television instead. I joked with a good friend doing the same thing in Atlanta "these antifa agitators are causing shit.:
As soon as WHILE it was happening, people were calling it a "protest" that went sideways because of outside agitators.
(Maury Povich): "The lie detector test determined... That was a lie":
https://www.sfgate.com/nation/article/q-shaman-us-capitol-antifa-matt-gaetz-15852663.php

Don't judge me, I watch Maury at 11 and 5 every day since I have been working from home since March.

[SimpleS14]

The fallout from 2020 + Wednesday that no one is talking about:

March 2020 till about Sep or Oct, there was a massive hack of the federal government infrastructure. I don't care who you blame, President Trump was not really talking about this and no one seems to understand how massive this sets us back as a country.

And then Wednesday... lost in all the talk about who did what was the glaring fact that for about 3-4 hours, the entire US Capitol building was open to anyone that was able to get in. Many senators and representatives sit on committees with access to sensitive information (since they control budgeting and oversight of national defense, intelligence, etc), so if you wanted to go in and take stuff, or plant bugs, or whatever, that was the perfect cover to do whatever you wanted.

The fallout from this will be hidden from public view and damaging for years, if not decades to come...


It's certainly damaging and concerning what has happened from a national security perspective. I can't get over the fact that they breached the office of the Speaker of the House. This is second in line of the presidential succession and has access to all kinds of nation secrets. It's also a bit suspicious that one person that was arrested needed a Russian translator: https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/legal-issues/capitol-siege-arrests/2021/01/07/661292a2-5105-11eb-bda4-615aaefd0555_story.html

I think it's not talked about much in the public sphere because the government does not want to share the full extent of what they know and don't know to foreign adversaries. A cynical side of me thinks that it might not be "sensational" enough to maintain traction on national media too. This is partly due to cyberattacks happening in greater frequency and scale, that the general public might have become numb to the news or tend to easily forget and move on. The OPM hack is one example that comes to mind.

[Future240]

Aight.

From the Joe Biden presidency here is what I want to see.

-Marijuana legalized
-civil forfeiture only when there is proof of a crime
-voting rights restored to felons (im aware this is a state issue)
-national concealed carry registry/license.

[ixfxi]

From the Joe Biden presidency here is what I want to see.

-Marijuana legalized
-civil forfeiture only when there is proof of a crime
-voting rights restored to felons (im aware this is a state issue)
-national concealed carry registry/license.

- more trans
- more government control
- more mask wearing
- more nancy pelosi and her nephew newsom
- more whitmer
- more lock downs
- less stimulus money
- less guns
- more money going to foreign nations
- more youtube/apple/google/twitter/amazon
- more computers that tell us how many times you've visited xhamster today
- more useless college graduates
- more electric cars
- less modified petrol cars
- more regulations for running and owning a business
- more restrictions for the adult industry
- less church
- less family

[dizzariot]

Is anyone else worried about the recent censorship on social media platforms and the obvious bias towards one party on said platforms?

As I understand it (someone put it plainly) Section 230 is supposed to be both a shield & sword for big tech companies. They choose who to use the sword on (removing content or users) and use the shield to defend themselves from lawsuits. These platforms are privately owned, and can 'censor' as they see fit. I understand this. They have protection from real-world consequences due to third-party inputs on their platforms...

...except when it comes to politics? My concern is what is being done about the influence of our nation's politics, whether by a loud/vocal minority or outside (Russian/Chinese) entities?

I grew up in CA my whole life, recently got out of the military with ZERO illusions about how 'great' our Navy is, and hold no great pride for my service. Experiences vary, I suppose. I had also never used a firearm before the military and I'm hooked now, although I currently do not (though I firmly believe in ownership) own any firearms. I live and work in Japan. I'm enjoying 'taking a break' from being in the US but I am happy to be an American. I say this because I don't want to be labeled as someone I'm not.

The sad fact, however, is that people get caught up on the name 'Trump'. He is easy to disdain and even easier not to defend, but I feel like he is currently being used to set a precedence for big tech censorship. So for the record, I could give two fucks about the man. He means nothing to me...but the shitstorm on social media after he was banned seems to be a bit of a tipping point for big tech to test what they can get away with. Trump was the perfect pawn to start with because most people on social media hold no love for him and (in my opinion) let themselves be blinded by that.

What do you guys think about how social media is influencing politics, and to a larger extent, how influencers on one side of the spectrum seem to have control?

[kingkilburn]

No one was concerned when Facebook gutted the atheist pages and groups years back. No one was concerned when Twitter basically made it impossible to talk about LGBT issues openly for months a few years back.

No one seemed to be concerned when Facebook and Twitter refused to do anything about the clear and present danger of ethno-nationalist and christian dominionists organizing over the last 5-6 years. No one has been all that alarmed by Google turning overtly right leaning pro authority over the last few years.

Now that the conservative chickens have come home to roost and the sociopolitical climate is changing I'm supposed to be concerned that social media platforms are doing what they should have been doing and have always been well within their rights to do? Pass.

[kingkilburn]

I truly believe that Boomers and older GenXers just do not understand that the internet is as real and in many important ways more powerful than physical space. Seemingly no lessons have been learned from the various hacks, leaks, viruses, etc, and very little has been done outside of big business's half assed attempts to protect their own networks.

Social engineering will continue with or without big tech "censorship" until more than shareholder $$$ is on the line.

[dizzariot]

The issues you mentioned with the atheist and LGBT communities are concerning, but in the same vain why would it be okay for conservatives to be silenced? If Facebook wasn't an ally then but is now, why should they be trusted? Parler was made for people who felt like they needed a place for conservative dialogue and it's being shitcanned. They made their own space for their discord and now it's open season on their asses...where do these people go? You don't have to care about the individuals/thier affiliation in particular, but what it means for 'XXXX Group' trying to have a forum on 'XXX Platform'.

We can get into the weeds of 'extremists' (in all communities) or you can trust that I'm purely discussing people that can have a constructive discord. My fear is that setting the precedence now will have larger implications later...especially when entities want to influence who the next US President will be.

The only reason you should be concerned is that them finally using the 'sword' is not done in an equal manner. I get that they're private and we can't make them deal out banhammers fairly. Right now it might be swinging in your favor but what happens when it isn't?

I'm only on Facebook and Instagram now, so I don't have to deal with this shit, but it's scary how many people (a lot of young people I know) get their news from Twitter and Facebook without doing further research.

[kingkilburn]

Actually, I think bothering Parler is a massive mistake. Those people are self incriminating in plain view. I understand why Apple and Google are doing what they're doing but I'd hope that the DOJ had time and forethought to get deep in there first.

Do you remember back when Twitter said they already had the rules/enforcement and tech to stamp out abuse and extremism BUT it kept catching Republicans and conservative Christians in the dragnet? There's a warning there people didn't want to hear. Twitter put time and money into making their platform a better safer place and political pressure halted it. Sometimes well crafted impartial bots do get it right.

[dizzariot]

Actually, I think bothering Parler is a massive mistake. Those people are self incriminating in plain view. I understand why Apple and Google are doing what they're doing but I'd hope that the DOJ had time and forethought to get deep in there first.

Do you remember back when Twitter said they already had the rules/enforcement and tech to stamp out abuse and extremism BUT it kept catching Republicans and conservative Christians in the dragnet? There's a warning there people didn't want to hear. Twitter put time and money into making their platform a better safer place and political pressure halted it. Sometimes well crafted impartial bots do get it right.

I hear you. My issue is 'free speech'. If Twitter was void of all political discussions I don't think we'd be talking about this.

If the powers at be over at Twitter can decide what gets to be seen and what gets cut, aren't you worried about that? I understand you aren't right now, but what happens when/if that pendulum swings back the other way? Right now a lot of people want to stick it to the Trump supporters but if you're like me and you're leery of big government it kind of worries me. They can use this (a large group of people that are easy to dislike) to their advantage because they know we'll accept it if it's packaged the right way.

I'm looking at my tinfoil hat, but it isn't on yet.

Unfortunately, hate speech is protected under FoS. This means the GOVERNMENT cannot censor you. Twitter, however, can...but their definition of that can continuously evolve. (We're saying Twitter here, but insert any platform).

You also said it caught 'abuse' and 'extremists' but these also have definitions set by Twitter. These definitions can also change at the whim of whatever platform we're discussing.

[kingkilburn]

You think Twitter is specifically targeting Trump supporters for being Trump supporters or do you think Trump supporters are posting things that trip Twitters filters and boys?

Is your solution to give the government control over what's allowed on the internet rather than people? That seems worse.

[FaLKoN240]

I hear you. My issue is 'free speech'. If Twitter was void of all political discussions I don't think we'd be talking about this.

If the powers at be over at Twitter can decide what gets to be seen and what gets cut, aren't you worried about that? I understand you aren't right now, but what happens when/if that pendulum swings back the other way? Right now a lot of people want to stick it to the Trump supporters but if you're like me and you're leery of big government it kind of worries me. They can use this (a large group of people that are easy to dislike) to their advantage because they know we'll accept it if it's packaged the right way.

I'm looking at my tinfoil hat, but it isn't on yet.

Unfortunately, hate speech is protected under FoS. This means the GOVERNMENT cannot censor you. Twitter, however, can...but their definition of that can continuously evolve. (We're saying Twitter here, but insert any platform).

You also said it caught 'abuse' and 'extremists' but these also have definitions set by Twitter. These definitions can also change at the whim of whatever platform we're discussing.

I will agree with you that after inciting the "Walk down to the Capitol" Twitter, FB, and the numerous other social media sites shutting down Trumpito had the perfect start to getting him axed off those sites.

I think as we continue to see things escalate as a whole with proof of a call to action or inciting other acts of violence that we will see the same treatment going forward.

I think the biggest example of how it could have happened to people that lean left, is when the whole "Punch a Nazi" campaign was going on and Nazi sympathizers were being assaulted all over the country. That would be the only example of "Why weren't those people inciting violence against Nazis banned?"

But then again, fuck Nazis.

[dizzariot]

You think Twitter is specifically targeting Trump supporters for being Trump supporters or do you think Trump supporters are posting things that trip Twitters filters and boys?

Is your solution to give the government control over what's allowed on the internet rather than people? That seems worse.

I think dipshits are hitting buzzwords, but the list of buzzwords is set by people that work in a biased workplace on a biased platform. Does that mean everyone hitting said buzzwords is innocent? No.

I posted this because I really don't know what the solution is. When everyone thought Russia influenced social media to make Clinton lose the election people were outraged. Now people that are discussing the possibility of voter fraud are being suspended. The line between misinformation and discussing possibilities is blurred. Someone can't postulate that voter fraud may be occurring and agree that the raid on the Capitol was wrong? Where are the degrees to this?

The platforms aren't regulating fairly. The only type of 'government control' that would work is for the government to essentially ensure that free speech is upheld on privately owned platforms...but that's not gonna happen.

I will agree with you that after inciting the "Walk down to the Capitol" Twitter, FB, and the numerous other social media sites shutting down Trumpito had the perfect start to getting him axed off those sites.

I think as we continue to see things escalate as a whole with proof of a call to action or inciting other acts of violence that we will see the same treatment going forward.

I think the biggest example of how it could have happened to people that lean left, is when the whole "Punch a Nazi" campaign was going on and Nazi sympathizers were being assaulted all over the country. That would be the only example of "Why weren't those people inciting violence against Nazis banned?"

But then again, fuck Nazis.

I'm confused. Are you saying coordinating a protest should not be allowed? Genuinely asking.

Does anyone know what tweets actually got him banned? I think I saw one, but it was the same 'the election was stolen' and 'we will not let this stand' type shit. I fail to see how that equates to 'break in and break shit'. Again, for anyone getting mad, I'm not defending these people or him. I'm discussing what the content of the tweets were and how they gave grounds to a banhammer.

...and yeah, fuck Nazis. Would we all like to punch a Nazi? Yes...but we'd still be subject to assault charges. This is where FoS always falls down: it gives freedom to assholes.

[dizzariot]

Actually here it is:

https://blog.twitter.com/en_us/topics/company/2020/suspension.html

So even in the context of what was going on, I still don't see where the glorification of violence was. They try break it down, but I still disagree. I think it's a reach and a way for Dorsey to get Twitter paid for the foreseeable future.

All I'm trying to implore anyone here to do is to try and remove your feelings from this and look at the typed words and decide if saying 'fuck you' to the people you disagree with is worth what this implies.

[Phlip]

Colin Powell formally leaves the Republican Party.
Impeachment 2.0 set to begin if Pence doesn't invoke the 25th.
Big companies cutting ties to lawmakers who tried to subvert the election.
It's not even 10am yet!

[SimpleS14]

This is a very interesting topic on social media platforms and one where I don't think there is a straight forward solution. The rules and policies on these platforms change over time and will evolve at a rapid clip (compared to fed/state laws) because the technology and how they are being used (or abused) changes at a similar rate.

I'm just speculating here, but these platform owners probably had the Supreme Court case of Brandenburg v. Ohio in mind which the court held that the government cannot punish inflammatory speech unless that speech is "directed to inciting or producing imminent lawless action and is likely to incite or produce such action". This might have caused Twitter and other platforms into action because of the aftermath of said speech and the fact that they don't want to be liable for another similar event occurring (which had rumblings already in motion).

In the case of Russian influence in 2016 vs. widespread election fraud claims in 2020, IMO, the main difference is both were presented to the courts but the former had credible evidence brought forward by DOJ leading to indictments and the latter was hearsay leading to cases dropped/lost and some lawyer running the risk of disbarment.

The actions taken against Parler were certainly extreme, but they can go the way of Daily Stormer and host their service outside of U.S. jurisdiction.

[KA24DESOneThree]

I'm glad the questions of censorship are getting some air time. If you spend a lot of time on Reddit, the only response seems to be "good riddance."

But conversations in the public sphere matter. The ability for people to converse gets creative juices flowing-provided the Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram algorithms don't just place the people in echo chambers. There should be no question about it: Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram all helped create the situations for genesis. They put like-minded people in rooms where the reading material was all war and no peace.

Now they're saying "omg this is bad" when culpability was being spoken of- and changing the direction of the narrative. Where were the heavy-handed ban hammers when it was obvious troll farms based outside the US were spreading rumor after rumor, making it impossible for simple people with a 9-to-5 to tell fact from fiction in the hour they gave themselves to cruise Facebook? Where was the civic-minded introspection when people were literally being radicalized in front of our faces?

Big companies only do what's right for the shareholders, because what's right for the shareholders is what's right for the c-suite. They're virtue-signaling because it'll be good for their bottom lines.

People need to think critically, but that doesn't happen overnight.

I also agree with mav1178- this hack needs to come back into the public eye. There was some very scary shit being revealed on 1/5 and now it's buried in the back.

[mav1178]

I also agree with mav1178- this hack needs to come back into the public eye. There was some very scary shit being revealed on 1/5 and now it's buried in the back.

Yup, the direction of this thread basically proves my point.

We are so stuck on the newest news that the important details are not being scrutinized on.

I'm sure someone at the FBI or DOJ is investigating but the public goes on like nothing happened...

[Future240]

Yup, the direction of this thread basically proves my point.

We are so stuck on the newest news that the important details are not being scrutinized on.

I'm sure someone at the FBI or DOJ is investigating but the public goes on like nothing happened...

panama papers says wut?

[kingkilburn]

Russia DID use Facebook and Twitter to steer the outcome of that election. There is no doubt. I hope the incoming administration and Congress lay it all out so there can be no doubt.

In 2020 there was no wide spread fraud or undue influence except that by Donald Trump. There is no equivalency here.

Again, the lessons social media learned from 2016 were put into practice. They didn't target Russia and Republicans. They targeted bots, smurf accounts, coordinated posting with no "source", and more, and Republicans and hyper conservative NGOs got caught AGAIN. They're doing their job decently well and if anything they delayed doing it until after the election to appear impartial when they should have been doing it the whole time.



BTW, we aren't talking about censorship in the town free speech zone. We're talking about curation on a privately owned physical literal bulletin board. I can and will curate my bulletin board how I see fit and I don't even have to tell you what that means. You have to get it out of your heads that social media is any different. If you don't like their policies and bias then make your own, and maybe do a better job of curtailing incitement than Parler did.

[kingkilburn]

Remember the various gay wedding cake incidents?

Now that but it's Twitter and Neo Nazis. It's Facebook and Qanon. It's Instagram and female nipples. It's Simon & Schuster and Josh Hawley.

[KA24DESOneThree]

I don't believe that we should have control over what gets posted. I just believe that this moral grandstanding is fucking stupid and is only led by the companies' want to CYA.

Back to the hack, we're talking about the Russians having potential root access to information at FireEye, US Dept of Treasury, US NTIA, the State Dept, US NIH, DHS, DOE, National Nuclear Security Admin, some US states, Microsoft, and Cisco. Apparently, they also gained access to ~3% of the DoJ's Office 365 inboxes and may have compromised the federal courts' case management and electronic case files system.

Kompromat may be very alive and very well soon.

[FaLKoN240]

Exciting stuff brought to you by hackers.

https://www.facebook.com/theTrojanHorseNews/posts/199599968569372

https://gizmodo.com/every-deleted-parler-post-many-with-users-location-dat-1846032466

[kingkilburn]

https://cybernews.com/news/70tb-of-parler-users-messages-videos-and-posts-leaked-by-security-researchers/

[mr.nismo.]

Actually here it is:



https://blog.twitter.com/en_us/topics/company/2020/suspension.html



So even in the context of what was going on, I still don't see where the glorification of violence was. They try break it down, but I still disagree. I think it's a reach and a way for Dorsey to get Twitter paid for the foreseeable future.



All I'm trying to implore anyone here to do is to try and remove your feelings from this and look at the typed words and decide if saying 'fuck you' to the people you disagree with is worth what this implies.To some people it does. Like you said before, when the pendulum swings back it'll change then.

Sent from my Note 20 Ultra using Tapatalk

[kingkilburn]

Someone in the state department changed Trump's biography to show his term ending today.

https://www.state.gov/people/donald-j-trump/

[KA24DESOneThree]

Well, that either got taken down or got notoriety's kiss of death.

[kingkilburn]

And back to the internet censorship topic...

https://www.krem.com/article/news/local/idaho-internet-provider-blocks-facebook-and-twitter/293-867cc22b-fb90-4142-a296-8d800d2a03fb

An Idaho ISP is blocking Facebook and Twitter. I'm pretty sure that's not legal where as Twitter and Facebook removing content that goes against their TOS is perfectly legal.

[KA24DESOneThree]

Would be interesting to see their ToS and whether or not they reserve the right to block websites on certain grounds.

Then we can have a discussion on whether or not Internet access is a right in a time when most libraries are either closed or on restricted hours.

[kingkilburn]

I'd argue that highspeed internet access is a right and should be regulated as a utility.

[dizzariot]

But conversations in the public sphere matter. The ability for people to converse gets creative juices flowing-provided the Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram algorithms don't just place the people in echo chambers. There should be no question about it: Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram all helped create the situations for genesis. They put like-minded people in rooms where the reading material was all war and no peace.

Now they're saying "omg this is bad" when culpability was being spoken of- and changing the direction of the narrative. Where were the heavy-handed ban hammers when it was obvious troll farms based outside the US were spreading rumor after rumor, making it impossible for simple people with a 9-to-5 to tell fact from fiction in the hour they gave themselves to cruise Facebook? Where was the civic-minded introspection when people were literally being radicalized in front of our faces?


+ 156,485,235.67


Russia DID use Facebook and Twitter to steer the outcome of that election. There is no doubt. I hope the incoming administration and Congress lay it all out so there can be no doubt.

In 2020 there was no wide spread fraud or undue influence except that by Donald Trump. There is no equivalency here.

Again, the lessons social media learned from 2016 were put into practice. They didn't target Russia and Republicans. They targeted bots, smurf accounts, coordinated posting with no "source", and more, and Republicans and hyper conservative NGOs got caught AGAIN. They're doing their job decently well and if anything they delayed doing it until after the election to appear impartial when they should have been doing it the whole time.


BTW, we aren't talking about censorship in the town free speech zone. We're talking about curation on a privately owned physical literal bulletin board. I can and will curate my bulletin board how I see fit and I don't even have to tell you what that means. You have to get it out of your heads that social media is any different. If you don't like their policies and bias then make your own, and maybe do a better job of curtailing incitement than Parler did.



...I understand this. I said it a few times. My topic is basically the conundrum brought up by allowing these privately owned platforms to influence a generation of voters BECAUSE they have the right to curate. People will constantly compare Trump to a certain infamous German leader but controlling the narrative is also being done by these platforms. Like I said, you can sing their praises while it's in your favor but what happens when it isn't?

I guess this topic really has no 'end'. If you believe Twitter is doing a stellar job then that's cool. I don't use the platform anyway, and I only really discuss these things here with forum members. I just believe that entities that target FoS under ANY guise will end up trying to CONTROL speech as well. Right now it's easy to support. That might not be the case in the future.

[kingkilburn]

I'm not singing their praises in the slightest. You misunderstand.
They've been held to no standard but those imposed by shareholders and advertising partners. They dance a balance of mass engagement and staying under the radar.

Twitter is begging for regulation. Youtube desperately needs federal standards for copyright imposed on them to defend themselves from larger media companies. Only Facebook wants left to their own devices and to avoid antitrust at all costs.

They all need regulation that frees them from being the bad guys in public perception by requiring them to act. It's a complicated thing we have no precedence for.

[deolio]

People have been getting kicked off social media platforms since the invention of social media - the vast majority for offenses much less than what Trump has done. In my opinion, they gave him too long of a leash (much like the mods did with zombie/rebuild) in an effort to prevent backlash, which is understandable, but its really just delaying the inevitable and allowing the damage to be done in the meantime.

Clear, concise rules/laws/terms of service/community guidelines/etc that are enforced in a fair and unbiased manner is the only way for a social network/government/society/club/etc to operate in an effective and ethical manner. Shit is universal. It ain’t rocket science, but it seems like a reminder is good every now and then.

*looks at America* FUCK we’re FUCKED

[Future240]

My thing about Repubs getting riled up is this is literally what they championed for. A private company being able to deny service as they see fit if the person they are giving the service to does not fit their values.

But when its king trump now it is an issue. The hypocrisy in Washington is sickening at times.

A true conservative would be about small government, balanced budgets, personal freedom now throwing a hissy fit when you guys loses.

The gop needs to die and from the ashes a party arises with actual conservative values.

-no needles wars
-more aid into america and less foreign aid
-tax breaks across the board
-offset the tax breaks by legalizing marijuana and mushrooms nation wide
-getting rid of blue laws. (for those not familiar these are laws throughout the nation that are quasi bible based that restrict things. for instance in some states you cannot buy alcohol on sundays)
-stop the needless social wars. If two men want to marry, personal freedom up to them as government should not try to regulate what goes on people's bedroom between consenting adults. this applies to escorts as well
-since abortion is the law, educate teens about protected sex and stop the abstinence only bullshit. Revamp the adoption system to get more kids places with more loving families.
-revamp the prison system, stop incentivizing officers to do drug busts with federal money and have then focus on other crimes, like rape, murder with said federal money

Just some ideas off the top of my head.

[Future240]

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/jan/11/sherrod-brown/black-lives-matter-protests-faced-more-militarized/

[KA24DESOneThree]

I don't know if you guys consider this important, but GoDaddy dropped AR15.com.

Arfcom was backed up, and is back up, but it's still interesting that they shut down a site with the primary purpose of discussing a popular rifle platform. I can only assume it's because of the non-firearm conversations among the heavily conservative users of the site, least of which was a dedicated QAnon subforum. It's been a while since I ventured into the Mos Eisley spaceport that is the non-firearm subforums and holy hell. These motherfuckers are wackadoo.

Ron Paul got banned from Facebook, likely because he's a dumbass when it comes to COVID.

But... conversations forced into the shadows create radicals. Expose a person to enough propaganda and they might start believing it, and each of these new platforms concentrates voices that might otherwise be drowned out.

We need more parties. Not just two, but twenty.

[brndck]

-no needles wars
-more aid into america and less foreign aid
-tax breaks across the board
-offset the tax breaks by legalizing marijuana and mushrooms nation wide
-getting rid of blue laws. (for those not familiar these are laws throughout the nation that are quasi bible based that restrict things. for instance in some states you cannot buy alcohol on sundays)
-stop the needless social wars. If two men want to marry, personal freedom up to them as government should not try to regulate what goes on people's bedroom between consenting adults. this applies to escorts as well
-since abortion is the law, educate teens about protected sex and stop the abstinence only bullshit. Revamp the adoption system to get more kids places with more loving families.
-revamp the prison system, stop incentivizing officers to do drug busts with federal money and have then focus on other crimes, like rape, murder with said federal money

Just some ideas off the top of my head.
I'm pretty far on the left but i'm in favor of all the things you listed. Other than less foreign aid spending, I don't see any of those being very popular with todays conservatives.

[kingkilburn]

Serves to show that there is no such thing as political conservatism as most Americans imagine it. Either you want things to stay largely how they are or you want some level of major change. Social conservatism should have no bearing on politics. The whole political discourse is warped by the notion that modern Republicans even have a coherent policy platform. We never even get to actual policy talk when they behave as an opposition party even in power.
For instance; let's militarize the southern border, demonize brown immigrants, actively punish undocumented workers, but also shield the ownership and management trafficking these people and paying them under the table.




In other news, Pompeo says Cuba is funding terrorism in the western hemisphere and Al Qaeda is operating out of Iran. The desperation is palpable.

[kingkilburn]

That FBI DOJ press conference was so satisfying. He had me at public corruption strike force.

[Future240]

I don't know if you guys consider this important, but GoDaddy dropped AR15.com.

Arfcom was backed up, and is back up, but it's still interesting that they shut down a site with the primary purpose of discussing a popular rifle platform. I can only assume it's because of the non-firearm conversations among the heavily conservative users of the site, least of which was a dedicated QAnon subforum. .

I think a better response would be been to do like reddit did and just ban the subforum instead of the entire site. There are gun owners all over the political spectrum. All of my family and friends who are hardcore gun owners are strong on the left.

I'm pretty far on the left but i'm in favor of all the things you listed. Other than less foreign aid spending, I don't see any of those being very popular with todays conservatives.

That is the problem. Today's "conservatives" keep fighting yesterday's culture wars.

I understand the value of social institutions, promoting family, marriage etc. however, trying to define what family and marriage is IMO goes beyond conservatism and into something else. This is where a lot of voters get left.



Serves to show that there is no such thing as political conservatism as most Americans imagine it. Either you want things to stay largely how they are or you want some level of major change. Social conservatism should have no bearing on politics. .

I agree partially and disagree partially. I think social conservatism has a part in politics.

For instance I think it is more socially conservative to recognize that the dreamers are apart of American society by no fault on their own. Having a clear path to citizenship should be a goal. We should then put stricter laws in place and enforce them against the people who hire illegals and cause the issue in the first place.

The problem with most social conservatives is they simply define it as preserving the past society while failing to see that society changes and therefore you need to change along with it but still maintain some core principles.

For instance

Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

[kingkilburn]

I think my simplest answer for that is that there is no past to preserve and no force seeking to remove their current lifestyles from them. The march of progress doesn't rob them of traditional marriage, church on Sunday, beers with the boys, etc... But their crusade for an ever more idealized conservative past that never existed does rob us of hard fought progress and removes entirely the prospects of further progress.

How is the social libertarian the one calling for government to mind it's own business? lol

For me, the role of government is to provide the best possible outcomes to the greatest number of people as possible. Who cares if healthcare is a right(it is); can we satisfactorily provide healthcare to every person in the country? Fuck yeah we can. Would it be in the interest of all citizens to make work visas fast and easy? Should the pathway to citizenship be treated as a "shall grant" rather than "can grant"? Fuck yes to both.

[KA24DESOneThree]

I think a better response would be been to do like reddit did and just ban the subforum instead of the entire site. There are gun owners all over the political spectrum. All of my family and friends who are hardcore gun owners are strong on the left.

That absolutely would have been the better response, but there's virtue signaling to be done, dammit.

The Alphabet Agency (FBI, CIA, ATF, DOJ) response to violence on 1/6 and the (likely) violence on 1/20 will result in reduced freedom for all Americans. Biden would likely sign any revised USAPATRIOT-style bill that crossed his desk.

Increased government intrusion does not serve us well. Some legacy, Trump. 80 miles of border wall built over four years and armed troops on every corner in DC.

[dizzariot]

But... conversations forced into the shadows create radicals. Expose a person to enough propaganda and they might start believing it, and each of these new platforms concentrates voices that might otherwise be drowned out.


Or (shocking) maybe the people that have been written off as 'whackos' can have a discussion with you and see the light of day. We are so fast to write people off.

I think a better response would be been to do like reddit did and just ban the subforum instead of the entire site.

How do you feel about the Parler debacle, then?

[Future240]

That absolutely would have been the better response, but there's virtue signaling to be done, dammit.

The Alphabet Agency (FBI, CIA, ATF, DOJ) response to violence on 1/6 and the (likely) violence on 1/20 will result in reduced freedom for all Americans. Biden would likely sign any revised USAPATRIOT-style bill that crossed his desk.

Increased government intrusion does not serve us well. Some legacy, Trump. 80 miles of border wall built over four years and armed troops on every corner in DC.

Exactly. He would do so in the name of freedom too. It would be called something like the USAFLYINGEAGLEFREEDOM ACT.

History tells in the face of fear politicians erode freedom to "protect" the masses.



Or (shocking) maybe the people that have been written off as 'whackos' can have a discussion with you and see the light of day. We are so fast to write people off.



How do you feel about the Parler debacle, then?

This is an entire cluster.

One one hand we can clearly see its politically motivated as the tech companies want to be on the right side of the marketing dollars.

But said removal brings up the question, Should tech companies wield that kind of power to basically control what is viewed on the net? Related article below.

https://www.axios.com/trump-social-media-bans-twitter-facebook-parler-d8e985e0-0c59-4386-95c7-a2aa3ff0096e.html



On the other hand by shoving the off them web, you force them into places that cannot be monitored by anyone which may in the future allow the communicate even better.

https://www.axios.com/the-online-far-right-is-moving-underground-e429d45d-1b30-46e0-82a3-6e240bf44fef.html

On yet another hand, the possible implications.

These people were planning a crime. Clearly illegal.

Lets change it and say people were planning to meet up and have a taste of all their home distilled liquor in a gathering. Also illegal since home distilling is illegal in all 50 states.

Who gets to decided where the cut off is.

Now granted the storm the capital shit they were talking about raping and kidnapping so clearly different but one can see it is not exactly a stretch.

[SimpleS14]

A small number of House Republicans are in favor of impeachment (notably the #3 in the caucus) and Mitch McConnell has signalled his support behind the effort to convict and ban him from holding office again. As I mentioned in another thread, now would be a good time for Trump to resign. Out of pure self interest, he can resign in exchange for a pardon from Pence and retain the former president benefits. He would get the legal protection he seeks from federal crimes and he would still get the lifetime secret service protection.

[deolio]

now would be a good time for Trump to resign

That would require him to admit defeat. It took a failed coup for him do that last time...

[KA24DESOneThree]

Or (shocking) maybe the people that have been written off as 'whackos' can have a discussion with you and see the light of day. We are so fast to write people off.

Have you tried conversing with people for whom facts are fluid and dependent on the perceived bias of the informer? Have you tried to have conversations with people whose method of argumentation is the gish gallop?

It's nearly impossible. The goalposts move second by second. Whataboutism is the name of the game.

My brother and I have stopped talking politics with our dad specifically because it's impossible and everyone involved gets frustrated, then things get nasty.

[FaLKoN240]

Have you tried conversing with people for whom facts are fluid and dependent on the perceived bias of the informer? Have you tried to have conversations with people whose method of argumentation is the gish gallop?

It's nearly impossible. The goalposts move second by second. Whataboutism is the name of the game.

My brother and I have stopped talking politics with our dad specifically because it's impossible and everyone involved gets frustrated, then things get nasty.

This is literally what the Trump 2020 thread was about with the most vocal members of the staunch right. It was impossible to make points as the goal posts were always moving or other topics were brought into conversation.

[kingkilburn]

Trump is officially the first President to be impeached TWICE. The House is back in session Friday and I fully expect to hear some resolution on section 3 of the 14th amendment.

[Future240]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/13/trump-impeachment-what-you-need-to-know

[dizzariot]

Have you tried conversing with people for whom facts are fluid and dependent on the perceived bias of the informer? Have you tried to have conversations with people whose method of argumentation is the gish gallop?

It's nearly impossible. The goalposts move second by second. Whataboutism is the name of the game.

My brother and I have stopped talking politics with our dad specifically because it's impossible and everyone involved gets frustrated, then things get nasty.

Yes. I was forced to work with a lot of them in the military. You can't escape it.

...but by writing them off aren't we doing what these 'banhammers' are doing and forcing them underground?

I know it's not our job to change anyone's mind and it's fucking exhausting. I guess I'm all for keeping the dialogue going even if you 'hate' the person across the table from you. If you wanted to 'go to battle' with these people one day it would be a good thing to already be privy to their side of it so you can pick apart their argument at it's weak points and have counterarguments to their at that point 'anticipated') replies.

Meh. Maybe that's uncharacteristically idealistic of me.

[brndck]

Meh. Maybe that's uncharacteristically idealistic of me.

Yep.

You can?t have a discussion with someone who refuses to accept logic, and will infinitely move goalposts, play the whataboutism game, etc.

Me: 2+2=4
Them: BUT WHAT ABOUT 5!!! TRUMP SAID ITS 5, YOU LIBTARD.
Me: facepalm.

[kingkilburn]

...but by writing them off aren't we doing what these 'banhammers' are doing and forcing them underground?

Fuck em? The majority of them will never change their mind. Even those with doubts are emotionally invested in their worldview. It reminds me of explaining institutional racism to people that don't want to hear it.

[mr.nismo.]

Fuck em? The majority of them will never change their mind. Even those with doubts are emotionally invested in their worldview. It reminds me of explaining institutional racism to people that don't want to hear it.So you still aren't open to conversation?

Sent from my Note 20 Ultra using Tapatalk

[mr.nismo.]

Yep.



You can?t have a discussion with someone who refuses to accept logic, and will infinitely move goalposts, play the whataboutism game, etc.



Me: 2+2=4

Them: BUT WHAT ABOUT 5!!! TRUMP SAID ITS 5, YOU LIBTARD.

Me: facepalm.Anything blatantly obvious (like racism) should get uterly burried, but difference of of policy? That should be able to be discussed.

Sent from my Note 20 Ultra using Tapatalk

[mr.nismo.]

Yes. I was forced to work with a lot of them in the military. You can't escape it.

...but by writing them off aren't we doing what these 'banhammers' are doing and forcing them underground?

I know it's not our job to change anyone's mind and it's fucking exhausting. I guess I'm all for keeping the dialogue going even if you 'hate' the person across the table from you. If you wanted to 'go to battle' with these people one day it would be a good thing to already be privy to their side of it so you can pick apart their argument at it's weak points and have counterarguments to their at that point 'anticipated') replies.

Meh. Maybe that's uncharacteristically idealistic of me.

I wish the dialogue to keep going. But it seems anyone who has any agreement with any policy that's right leaning are all being grouped in with racists and people like the fuck faces from last Wednesday.

Sent from my Note 20 Ultra using Tapatalk

[Future240]

I wish the dialogue to keep going. But it seems anyone who has any agreement with any policy that's right leaning are all being grouped in with racists and people like the fuck faces from last Wednesday.

Sent from my Note 20 Ultra using Tapatalk

And here we have a major issue in todays politics. No one wants to talk about the issues on the left.

I got called a white supremacist on reddit for saying a white person donning dreads and painting their face to cosplay as a black character from a show they like is not the same thing as black face. I had to point out the fact I was black for them listen. Though several suggested I was a white guy posing as black.

Trans people are people. trans people should have rights. Yet the fringe left tries to convince us that men who trans into women are actual women instead of men who have transitioned into a faux woman.

Some of the left would have you believe all trump voters are racist.
https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2020/06/01/michigan-party-leaders-clash-after-dem-leader-calls-trump-voters-racists/5312336002/

Are there racist trump voters? abso-fucking-lutely

Are all trump voter racist? abso-fucking-lutley not

This ignores that blacks and latinos both voted for trump too.


Stuff like this is why I do not subscribed to a single political ideology.

The fringe on both sides can get eat several dicks.

[brndck]

I wish the dialogue to keep going. But it seems anyone who has any agreement with any policy that's right leaning are all being grouped in with racists and people like the fuck faces from last Wednesday.

meh, theres a huge separation between "i support limited govt and want financial conservatism" and "MAGA QANON STOP THE STEAL 8MOREYEARS".
If you endorse and support leaders who espouse racist agendas, its not surprising that you would get lumped in together. (not pointing at YOU particularly, just "you" in general)
And here we have a major issue in todays politics. No one wants to talk about the issues on the left.

I got called a white supremacist on reddit for saying a white person donning dreads and painting their face to cosplay as a black character from a show they like is not the same thing as black face. I had to point out the fact I was black for them listen. Though several suggested I was a white guy posing as black.

Trans people are people. trans people should have rights. Yet the fringe left tries to convince us that men who trans into women are actual women instead of men who have transitioned into a faux woman.

Some of the left would have you believe all trump voters are racist.
https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2020/06/01/michigan-party-leaders-clash-after-dem-leader-calls-trump-voters-racists/5312336002/

Are there racist trump voters? abso-fucking-lutely

Are all trump voter racist? abso-fucking-lutley not

This ignores that blacks and latinos both voted for trump too.

Stuff like this is why I do not subscribed to a single political ideology.

The fringe on both sides can get eat several dicks.

im fairly fringe and prefer a dick-free diet.

white person cosplaying a black character is absolutely not problematic in the same way as straight up blackface, but imo its could still be taken as offensive by many, or tasteless at best. Participate at your own risk, but dont be shocked when theres plenty of blowback.

the discussion around trans persons is simple. dont beat the shit out of them. dont assault or disparage them. dont try to deny them the rights and protections that the rest of us get. does it affect YOUR life in a negative way for someone else to live as a gender other than what they were assigned at birth?

in 2016 i would easily accept that not all trump supporters were racists.
in 2020 i would easily accept that MANY more trump supporters were racists. If you keep supporting/endorsing someone who espouses racist views, enacts racist policies, etc, don't be surprised if you get lumped in, even if you personally don't verbalize racist views. Plenty of Jews voted for hitler in 1935, not knowing what he would become.

https://sfi.usc.edu/video/manfred-steinfeld-why-germans-voted-hitler

https://www.wilsonquarterly.com/quarterly/summer-2009-thrift-the-double-edged-virtue/who-voted-for-hitler/

\/\/\/ this one is an opinion piece
https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-trump-and-the-jews-who-voted-for-hitler-1.5417967

[kingkilburn]

There's a old saying: You are the company you keep.

Don't be surprised when you neatly box yourself up and observers correctly label the box. We're all going to keep talking and at various points you're going to hear "that's that shit", and it's up to you to understand and keep it moving without trying to start a fight about it.

[mr.nismo.]

And here we have a major issue in todays politics. No one wants to talk about the issues on the left.

I got called a white supremacist on reddit for saying a white person donning dreads and painting their face to cosplay as a black character from a show they like is not the same thing as black face. I had to point out the fact I was black for them listen. Though several suggested I was a white guy posing as black.

Trans people are people. trans people should have rights. Yet the fringe left tries to convince us that men who trans into women are actual women instead of men who have transitioned into a faux woman.

Some of the left would have you believe all trump voters are racist.
https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2020/06/01/michigan-party-leaders-clash-after-dem-leader-calls-trump-voters-racists/5312336002/

Are there racist trump voters? abso-fucking-lutely

Are all trump voter racist? abso-fucking-lutley not

This ignores that blacks and latinos both voted for trump too.


Stuff like this is why I do not subscribed to a single political ideology.

The fringe on both sides can get eat several dicks.

And that's my problem with lumping in. There's no individualism. No one person is accountable, it's everyone that's right leaning is bad. Kingkilburn literally indirectly called me a racist in the last thread because I disagreed with him on some policies, even though I literally did nothing to him. When I hear "you can't converse with them", that's a double standard. Then conversations never happen. Goalposts get moved, etc.


meh, theres a huge separation between "i support limited govt and want financial conservatism" and "MAGA QANON STOP THE STEAL 8MOREYEARS".
If you endorse and support leaders who espouse racist agendas, its not surprising that you would get lumped in together. (not pointing at YOU particularly, just "you" in general)

Isn't this slightly contradictory? I'm reading this as "yeah, there's individualism but it doesn't matter, all bad".



im fairly fringe and prefer a dick-free diet.


This made me actually lol [emoji23]



white person cosplaying a black character is absolutely not problematic in the same way as straight up blackface, but imo its could still be taken as offensive by many, or tasteless at best. Participate at your own risk, but dont be shocked when theres plenty of blowback.
While this is true, context should be what matters.


the discussion around trans persons is simple. dont beat the shit out of them. dont assault or disparage them. dont try to deny them the rights and protections that the rest of us get. does it affect YOUR life in a negative way for someone else to live as a gender other than what they were assigned at birth?
The libertarian in me completely agrees with this. People should be able to do their thing and it's no one's business. But the fairness part of me (and may be what future is referring to) are biological women being forced to compete in sports to biological men, having to use the same restrooms, etc.



in 2016 i would easily accept that not all trump supporters were racists.
in 2020 i would easily accept that MANY more trump supporters were racists. If you keep supporting/endorsing someone who espouses racist views, enacts racist policies, etc, don't be surprised if you get lumped in, even if you personally don't verbalize racist views. Plenty of Jews voted for hitler in 1935, not knowing what he would become.

https://sfi.usc.edu/video/manfred-steinfeld-why-germans-voted-hitler

https://www.wilsonquarterly.com/quarterly/summer-2009-thrift-the-double-edged-virtue/who-voted-for-hitler/

\/\/\/ this one is an opinion piece
https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-trump-and-the-jews-who-voted-for-hitler-1.5417967

And I have no disagreement that there are racists who voted for him. But there are others that are voting for policies rather than the person. If you write off everyone as a racist that can't be talked to, then it sounds like everything will always be divided in an ugly way.

Sent from my Note 20 Ultra using Tapatalk

[mr.nismo.]

There's a old saying: You are the company you keep.

Don't be surprised when you neatly box yourself up and observers correctly label the box. We're all going to keep talking and at various points you're going to hear "that's that shit", and it's up to you to understand and keep it moving without trying to start a fight about it.

Your personal opinion on how you categorize doesn't make you right. If you box me up as a racist, I'm definitely going to tell you something about it.

Sent from my Note 20 Ultra using Tapatalk

[kingkilburn]

If you actively align yourself with ethno-nationalist christian dominionists I truly do not care what you actually believe. If you want an olive branch and dialog you must understand that your views and beliefs are a danger to me and people like me, as has been on full display over the last 5-6 years of right wing radicalization.

Frankly I don't care if I'm right or not. As long as I'm allowed to post here you're not going to act like American Conservatism has any legitimacy in 2021. After 4 years of Trump and McConnell you should be reconsidering your entire worldview.


To the mods
Have I been aggressive about this? Absolutely, but look at just the last week of what's happened. The majority of elected Republicans are STILL talking like something was taken from them, talking like they were cheated, talking like they are victims. I'm not inclined to concede anything.

[mr.nismo.]

If you actively align yourself with ethno-nationalist christian dominionists I truly do not care what you actually believe. If you want an olive branch and dialog you must understand that your views and beliefs are a danger to me and people like me, as has been on full display over the last 5-6 years of right wing radicalization.

Frankly I don't care if I'm right or not. As long as I'm allowed to post here you're not going to act like American Conservatism has any legitimacy in 2021. After 4 years of Trump and McConnell you should be reconsidering your entire worldview.


To the mods
Have I been aggressive about this? Absolutely, but look at just the last week of what's happened. The majority of elected Republicans are STILL talking like something was taken from them, talking like they were cheated, talking like they are victims. I'm not inclined to concede anything.

So again, I'll point out that I am not a conservative.

You indirectly called me a racist and grouped me with zombie and rebuild because I disagreed about packing the supreme court and adding more people to congress so it's easier to push x,y,z polices through. You think that's okay? Fuck em? The majority of them will never change their mind. Even those with doubts are emotionally invested in their worldview. It reminds me of explaining institutional racism to people that don't want to hear it.Are you going to hold up a mirror to yourself about this statement? Because as much i do not like the way you've talked to me/about me, I've been completely cordial and tried having normal debate with you. That being said, Im not going to beg for conversation. I'm merely trying to the thing that should be able to happen, which is where you said "fuck em". But, if you're so predisposed that I'm a racist and that I'm a "danger" to you, I don't know what to tell you.

Sent from my Note 20 Ultra using Tapatalk

[Future240]

im fairly fringe and prefer a dick-free diet.

:rofl:

Honestly you do not seem fringe to me. You definitely left but not like white people can't eat mexican food left.

The libertarian in me completely agrees with this. People should be able to do their thing and it's no one's business. But the fairness part of me (and may be what future is referring to) are biological women being forced to compete in sports to biological men, having to use the same restrooms, etc.




And I have no disagreement that there are racists who voted for him. But there are others that are voting for policies rather than the person. If you write off everyone as a racist that can't be talked to, then it sounds like everything will always be divided in an ugly way.

Sent from my Note 20 Ultra using Tapatalk


Right. The trans movement is bumping dick first into the women's movement. So much so the trans have come up with an acronym Terf which stands for Trans exclusive radical feminist. Despite the fact it is a issue which not even .5% of the population is directly affected by.

I believe you cannot encroach on the freedoms of the majority, women, to please an ultra minority. At the same time they cannot be treated like second class citizens. It is a fine line.

And on trump voters do remember a lot of them voted for him simply because he was the republican candidate and they tow the line for their party.

Pretty much goes like this. Not all trump voters are white racists, but all white racists are trump voters.


If you actively align yourself with ethno-nationalist christian dominionists I truly do not care what you actually believe. If you want an olive branch and dialog you must understand that your views and beliefs are a danger to me and people like me, as has been on full display over the last 5-6 years of right wing radicalization.

Frankly I don't care if I'm right or not. As long as I'm allowed to post here you're not going to act like American Conservatism has any legitimacy in 2021. After 4 years of Trump and McConnell you should be reconsidering your entire worldview.


To the mods
Have I been aggressive about this? Absolutely, but look at just the last week of what's happened. The majority of elected Republicans are STILL talking like something was taken from them, talking like they were cheated, talking like they are victims. I'm not inclined to concede anything.

I get this. Align yourself with dickheads, be looked at as a dickhead. However consider this. Today's republicans have little to do with real american conservatism. Hell a lot of repubs now called themselves Trumplicans.

Trump brought out some of the worst in people we have seen.

The gop is as needs to die a swift death in its place rises a real conservative party. One that will work with the dems to bring balance to the nation.

Neither the left or the right has all the answers. However between the two of them is enough to make this country truly great.

We need revamp the prision system, the healthcare system, the education system, the court and police system as a start.

Will Biden do any of it is the question of the day.

[SimpleS14]

In other news, Pompeo says Cuba is funding terrorism in the western hemisphere and Al Qaeda is operating out of Iran. The desperation is palpable.

IMO, these policy moves were done to hamstring the Biden administration. With Cuba, it's probably geared towards hurting diplomatic relations and versing policy executed by the Obama administration. As for Iran, that could impact Biden's goal of re-entering the nuclear deal.

The Biden administration can certainly reverse these policies moves, but I also think such moves will give more fodder for some Republicans and conservative media outlets.

[deolio]

We need revamp the prision system, the healthcare system, the education system, the court and police system as a start.

Will Biden do any of it is the question of the day.

The answer is no because prison makes money, healthcare makes money, shit education makes people easier to manipulate and drain money from, and police reform would take actual work.

You?d need to push through a lot of ?socialist? legislation and make major societal changes to see any real progress on those fronts. Abolish private prisons. Adopt FULLY universal healthcare. Pay teachers a lot more. Increase IA budget, get rid of qualified immunity, and actually hold cops accountable.

I suppose it could be doable since it?s an all Dem party on capital hill, but they?d have to actually want to do it, which I don?t think they do...

[kingkilburn]

Be the change, mr nismo. Put down old talking points/paradigms and be constructive. I'm moving on from the topic like I want America to move on from Republicanism.


On Pompeo
I never understand Congress going along with executive branch policy swinging back and forth with changing presidents. They, as a collective body, should be setting policy that guides us at home and our diplomats abroad. Pompeo should have to provide evidence to various Congressional committees to designate foreign states as criminal or terrorist. Congress needs to take back its role from the presidency regardless of political party.

[brndck]

The answer is no because prison makes money, healthcare makes money, shit education makes people easier to manipulate and drain money from, and police reform would take actual work.

You?d need to push through a lot of ?socialist? legislation and make major societal changes to see any real progress on those fronts. Abolish private prisons. Adopt FULLY universal healthcare. Pay teachers a lot more. Increase IA budget, get rid of qualified immunity, and actually hold cops accountable.

I suppose it could be doable since it?s an all Dem party on capital hill, but they?d have to actually want to do it, which I don?t think they do...

what about my fucking PONIES???
https://media.giphy.com/media/RJJzGAUQHVGbCXgPbv/source.mov

[dizzariot]

Are there racist trump voters? abso-fucking-lutely

Are all trump voter racist? abso-fucking-lutley not

This ignores that blacks and latinos both voted for trump too.


Stuff like this is why I do not subscribed to a single political ideology.

The fringe on both sides can get eat several dicks.

This is simply put, yet eloquent lol.




im fairly fringe and prefer a dick-free diet.

The lie detector test proved that was a LIE.

I wish the dialogue to keep going. But it seems anyone who has any agreement with any policy that's right leaning are all being grouped in with racists and people like the fuck faces from last Wednesday.




Yeah and that's the problem. It's a double standard. It seems like this isn't going to be the thread to break any new ground on how lop-sided the accusatory language is but whatever.

[kingkilburn]

https://apnews.com/article/biden-virus-stimulus-checks-vaccines-2dc5b15e7dc6690351b2e7f21cad73c4?utm_campaign=Soci alFlow&utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=AP

Am... Am I riddin with Biden? Obvious policy seems downright heroic after 4 years of that.

[deolio]

what about my fucking PONIES???
https://media.giphy.com/media/RJJzGAUQHVGbCXgPbv/source.mov

Ponies are a more likely outcome than any real change :rofl:

https://apnews.com/article/biden-virus-stimulus-checks-vaccines-2dc5b15e7dc6690351b2e7f21cad73c4?utm_campaign=Soci alFlow&utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=AP

Am... Am I riddin with Biden? Obvious policy seems downright heroic after 4 years of that.

Oh look, a president actually laying out a plan to deal with the pandemic. It's almost as if he's actually qualified for the job. It's a god damn miracle!

[mr.nismo.]

Be the change, mr nismo. Put down old talking points/paradigms and be constructive. I'm moving on from the topic like I want America to move on from Republicanism.


You cannot be serious about everything you've said at me, then tell me to be the change? What a joke. You ignored everything I said as usual....









Yeah and that's the problem. It's a double standard. It seems like this isn't going to be the thread to break any new ground on how lop-sided the accusatory language is but whatever.

Case and point above, as he gets to call me a racist and just roll with it like it's nothing.



Sent from my Note 20 Ultra using Tapatalk

[kingkilburn]

I didn't call you racist. I demonstrated that you've thrown yourself in with devout racists. Does that hurt your feelings? Good. Now consider whose policy and rhetoric you say you agree with and maybe uh don't anymore.

The rest of you see this as a double standard because I'm tired of talking about it. You want to see good conservatives where I see people I wish weren't conservative. Every single time I have a face to face conversation with a republican it turns out they aren't nearly as conservative as they think. Once you talk then off the rhetoric and start talking historical fact and what policies actually mean suddenly goddam everyone is a fucking progressive that wants to be left alone. But is it my job to hold everyone's hand to get there? I'm fucking tired.

[mr.nismo.]

I didn't call you racist. I demonstrated that you've thrown yourself in with devout racists. Does that hurt your feelings? Good. Now consider whose policy and rhetoric you say you agree with and maybe uh don't anymore.

The rest of you see this as a double standard because I'm tired of talking about it. You want to see good conservatives where I see people I wish weren't conservative. Every single time I have a face to face conversation with a republican it turns out they aren't nearly as conservative as they think. Once you talk then off the rhetoric and start talking historical fact and what policies actually mean suddenly goddam everyone is a fucking progressive that wants to be left alone. But is it my job to hold everyone's hand to get there? I'm fucking tired.

This was literally your reply to me disagreeing about packing the supreme court and congress.

So yes, you actually did indirectly call me a racist, and a couple posts later grouped me in with zombie and rebuild who were literally provoking you. Hurt my feelings? You can't say that shit and expect them to not tell you something. It's not all or nothing. Or if you do believe that, I'm guessing you support the rioters and looters from the BLM protestst. You know, ones who burned people's shit to the ground (a lot of minority owned to add). The "mostly peaceful" onces as a reporter is standing in front of a large structure fire. Since that's how you view everything? Mind me, I don't assume you're okay with that, as everyone should be treated as an individual. But hey if that's how you see yourself, so be it.


Again to add, I'm not a conservative...

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210115/a39c0ea22e7a48b480b46e077925e984.jpg

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[dizzariot]

1.) I didn't call you racist. I demonstrated that you've thrown yourself in with devout racists. Does that hurt your feelings? Good. Now consider whose policy and rhetoric you say you agree with and maybe uh don't anymore.

The rest of you see this as a double standard because I'm tired of talking about it. 2.) You want to see good conservatives where I see people I wish weren't conservative. Every single time I have a face to face conversation with a republican it turns out they aren't nearly as conservative as they think. Once you talk then off the rhetoric and start talking historical fact and what policies actually mean suddenly goddam everyone is a fucking progressive that wants to be left alone. 3.)But is it my job to hold everyone's hand to get there? I'm fucking tired.

1.) So if racists support big government and someone on this forum does as well, they are racist by association? Where are the degrees to this? He has stated multiple times that there are PARTS he agrees with and parts he disagrees with.

2.) This is okay for you but not for the people you are so against? Because you perceive you are on the side of 'righteousness'? How about this: you just want to see villains to justify you stooping to their level. Case-in-point with mr.nismo. You attack him, he starts to defend himself, and because he doesn't take it he's the enemy. It's like you're hunting for a reason to treat him like two previously banned forum members because you need a punching bag. C'mon, man...

3.) No, it isn't, and yes it's tiring...but isn't fighting the good fight (in this case trying to reach others with words) worth the utopia we all want one day? I also don't believe you do this because you seem just as intolerant as the people you despise so much.

Dude you are espousing looking in the mirror and it's like you've never seen one.

I'm sorry man but you're like a movie protagonist that's hunting a villain down because he does bad things. Once you get him right where you want him, you proceed to do the things you abhor so much to him because it's okay for you and not for him...but you're the protagonist, right? The crowd still cheers even when you perpetrate the very same shit you don't like upon the villain in your story?

If you are a paragon that wrongdoes a wrongdoer for wrongdoing, you are now a wrongdoer. An eye for an eye makes the world blind. I ran out of metaphors.

[kingkilburn]

Oh fuck off already. Go start a dogpile on Kilburn thread or something. You can make up whatever words and motivation makes you feel warm and fuzzy about yourselves.

I'll be in here talking about policy and current events.

[FaLKoN240]

No one is dog-piling on you, you're making yourself the target of the conversation by not listening to anything they're saying.

What you're doing is very similar to them moving the flag posts and what about-ism we were fighting against the other guys about for so long.

[kingkilburn]

What the fuck are you even talking about? This is stupid. You guys are spending days thinking about me while Biden releases an actual covid19 plan. Might as well lock this one too if no one intends to talk about anything but me.

[KA24DESOneThree]

I got a text last night from an engine supplier of mine.

It appears to be QAnon bullshit, and its gist is that Trump allowed the Democrats to elect themselves to positions of power in USA INC, but Trump already signed the papers to make us the United States Republic. There will be an election of the president within 180 days of Jan 8 and on Jan 20th, all Democratic offices are defunct and the new US Republic will be debt free.

That is batshit, my dudes. People actually believe this, and not an insignificant amount of people.

[SimpleS14]

That is batshit, my dudes. People actually believe this, and not an insignificant amount of people.

It's really going to be a significant challenge for this country in the years ahead when you have such a large populace in denialism.

IMO, the Biden administration should not give any of these conspiracies any oxygen and just follow through with their agenda as much as possible.

[Phlip]

IMO, the Biden administration should not give any of these conspiracies any oxygen and just follow through with their agenda as much as possible.

True as this may so be, the people who peddle this shit are adept at sucking all the air out of a room.

[KA24DESOneThree]

Further research shows that QAnon followers also believe that there will be mass executions.

If there are tens of thousands of Americans who are okay with martial law and mass executions, what the holy fuck does that say about us as a society?

[Future240]

A right wing conspiracist lives with me.

I've heard it all.

Trump is going to declare marshall law, the vaccine is just a ploy to turn black kids gay. The dr's are killing patients claiming covid to get money. Masks make your body weaker since you breath in carbon dioxide instead of oxygen.

[Antihero983]

A right wing conspiracist lives with me.

I've heard it all.

Trump is going to declare marshall law, the vaccine is just a ploy to turn black kids gay. The dr's are killing patients claiming covid to get money. Masks make your body weaker since you breath in carbon dioxide instead of oxygen.

I've also heard that Obama knew in 2014 that this was all gonna happen so the Dems would be able to win, and that wearing a mask gives you cancer. Nevermind all the tinfoil shit I hear from my redneck coworkers.

I just want the inauguration done with already so I don't have to hear about it anymore.

[brndck]

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/97/f6/fd/97f6fd72bebc79e0d35be6082ce5691c.jpg
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/97/f6/fd/97f6fd72bebc79e0d35be6082ce5691c.jpg

[Future240]

I just want the inauguration done with already so I don't have to hear about it anymore.

Oh contraire

It is going to get worst. Now they will have a full for year to say how Biden's actions are going to [insert radical nonsense].

[KA24DESOneThree]

I just want the inauguration done with already so I don't have to hear about it anymore.

This is not going away until there are a Republican-majority House and Senate with a Republican in the WH. The myth that the election was stolen won't stop and will likely be amplified with every "socialist" policy enacted under Biden's term.

Seriously. This is our lives now, with consistent and constant conspiracy theories being bandied about like we're truly idiotic.

Re: gay frogs (not really gay but sex-changed and hermaphroditic and I understand the context of the picture had nothing to do with starting a conversation on atrazine) and atrazine- that's what happens when industrialized farming is subsidized and championed. Yield per acre goes down, yield per year goes down, petroleum products used per acre go up, pesticide usage goes up without long-term studies on its environmental effects. Atrazine's been banned in the EU since 2004 but remains present in the soil more than 15 years after its last use.

[Antihero983]

Yeah I know y'all are right, but maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan I was hopeful for a split second. haha

[brndck]

Re: gay frogs (not really gay but sex-changed and hermaphroditic and I understand the context of the picture had nothing to do with starting a conversation on atrazine) and atrazine- that's what happens when industrialized farming is subsidized and championed. Yield per acre goes down, yield per year goes down, petroleum products used per acre go up, pesticide usage goes up without long-term studies on its environmental effects. Atrazine's been banned in the EU since 2004 but remains present in the soil more than 15 years after its last use.

similar to how glysophate is present in fucking EVERYTHING now. Even bottled wine shows high levels of it. We're getting off topic, back to Uncle Biden.

[Phlip]

I am just waiting for Obama's post-Katrina FEMA coffins and Obamacare death panels to come back.

[kingkilburn]

What happens when the President(and HHS Secretary) lies to state governments about the existence of a strategic vaccine stockpile and tells people to administer first doses knowing there aren't enough units for follow up doses?

[Phlip]

What happens when the President(and HHS Secretary) lies to state governments about the existence of a strategic vaccine stockpile and tells people to administer first doses knowing there aren't enough units for follow up doses?

Criminal charges when both are outside of the DOJ unofficial-rule-rule, as soon as Wednesday afternoon?

[ixfxi]

If you actively align yourself with ethno-nationalist christian dominionists I truly do not care what you actually believe. If you want an olive branch and dialog you must understand that your views and beliefs are a danger to me and people like me, as has been on full display over the last 5-6 years of right wing radicalization.

Frankly I don't care if I'm right or not. As long as I'm allowed to post here you're not going to act like American Conservatism has any legitimacy in 2021. After 4 years of Trump and McConnell you should be reconsidering your entire worldview.

mr nismo is probably one of the few SANE people in this thread. but douchie above, is a straight LOOOOON

[kingkilburn]

You saying he's sane after what you had to say in the last thread is exactly the point I was making. Thanks.

[mr.nismo.]

You saying he's sane after what you had to say in the last thread is exactly the point I was making. Thanks.You insisting that you can call me racist, and I just have to accept it and move on is why this thread will be echo chamber.

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[Future240]

And so it begins

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/16/us/politics/biden-administration-executive-action-legislation.html

Like Trump did with Obama, I wonder if parts of Biden's legacy will be dismantling whatever Trump did just because it is Trump.

I know little about the paris accord so I cannot comment on whether him rejoining is good or bad.

This is kind of the issue with executive actions. They can be a volleyball depending on who wins the next four years.

[kingkilburn]

You still refuse to get out of your fucking feelings and actually read. You are the company you keep, and that's your echo chamber.

Moving the fuck on.

[kingkilburn]

This is kind of the issue with executive actions. They can be a volleyball depending on who wins the next four years.

Our current paradigm has given the presidency too much authority to create policy be decree. Congress needs to step up, regardless of party.

[kingkilburn]

blxT61F-Ris

So many of these groups have danced between cult and paramilitary for years. I truly do not understand why they're been allowed to flourish.

[mr.nismo.]

You still refuse to get out of your fucking feelings and actually read. You are the company you keep, and that's your echo chamber.

Moving the fuck on.My feelings? You called me a fucking racist. I fully believe you'll get the same leeway zombie and rebuild did for the fucked up shit they said, (fair is fair) so at this point, since you want to defend calling me a racist for nothing, fuck you.


// To add, AGAIN, for anyone who wonders on this thread, I'm not a conservative, and all I did was disagree an packing the supreme court and congress. What a fucking joke this is.
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[SimpleS14]

What happens when the President(and HHS Secretary) lies to state governments about the existence of a strategic vaccine stockpile and tells people to administer first doses knowing there aren't enough units for follow up doses?

Nothing. I'm not supporting what occurred, but this could be viewed as miscommunication and/or administrative errors.

Like Trump did with Obama, I wonder if parts of Biden's legacy will be dismantling whatever Trump did just because it is Trump.

IMO, I don't think the dismantling would be purely out of spite. Of course Biden was not a fan of some of the actions done by the Trump's administration, but he doesn't have a track record of showing absolute hate/disgust towards him and everything he does.

[dizzariot]

Oh fuck off already. Go start a dogpile on Kilburn thread or something. You can make up whatever words and motivation makes you feel warm and fuzzy about yourselves.

I'll be in here talking about policy and current events.

Yeah, right. Like you need ANOTHER thread to grandstand on.

We can close this thread and turn it into the 'Kingkilburn Enlightens Zilvia: Dissenters Will Be Summarily Executed' because this dude is dead set on embodying the mannerisms of the people he's so against. Oh the irony.

OT:

For anyone that cares, the Japan bases are getting the vaccines now. They've started to roll them out but they're optional. We'll still be on lockdown and have to wear masks which is expected at this point, but meh.

Genuinely asking: if the FDA can approve a vaccination for emergency use but not fully 'FDA Approve' it...what gives? If it's gonna be approved, why not just approve it. Is this in the realm of politics? I don't know, but someone mentioned the COVID plan for the US. Thought I'd let you know what we're getting over here.

[kingkilburn]

You claim I'm grandstanding but won't hear anything I'm saying and clearly refuse to move on. I'm not apologizing, you wouldn't be satisfied even if I did. The old thread is locked and any disagreements don't need to be drug out across the forum. How is loud mouth Kilburn the only adult in the room?



Emergency approval gets the current vaccines out there while acknowledging unknowns. A year plus from now when, hopefully, covid19 is no longer a global pandemic but still requires vaccinations the currently available vaccines may not be what eventually gets full approval. There's a lot more study that needs to go into regularly approved vaccine. Think about how many years we heard about hpv vaccines before they finally got widespread approval. The vaccine hasn't really changed but they wanted to know how different demographics reacted to it.

[mr.nismo.]

You claim I'm grandstanding but won't hear anything I'm saying and clearly refuse to move on. I'm not apologizing, you wouldn't be satisfied even if I did. The old thread is locked and any disagreements don't need to be drug out across the forum. How is loud mouth Kilburn the only adult in the room?



Calling me a racist isn't a disagreement. I'm simply asking you to retract your bullshit statement for disagreeing with you. I don't know how the fuck you call yourself an adult when you do that.

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[kingkilburn]

You've got a problem and it doesn't have anything to do with me. It's not like you've actually understood anything I've said anyway. If you remember I never said you are racist. I said the equivalent of "if the shoe fits" and I said it to demonstrate a point. You and these other assholes lost your goddam minds. Apparently everyone reads the words they want people to have said.

You all can believe what you want and think of me as you like. I don't fucking care. I do care about you continuing to derail the thread. So let's all move the fuck on already.

[mr.nismo.]

You've got a problem and it doesn't have anything to do with me. It's not like you've actually understood anything I've said anyway. If you remember I never said you are racist. I said the equivalent of "if the shoe fits" and I said it to demonstrate a point. You and these other assholes lost your goddam minds. Apparently everyone reads the words they want people to have said.

You all can believe what you want and think of me as you like. I don't fucking care. I do care about you continuing to derail the thread. So let's all move the fuck on already.

I do have a problem. I have a problem with your statement and grouping of me in with zombie and rebuild for their racial (and literally racist) statements. All because I disagreed with you on a matter. We were debating just fine until you made it personal (directed at me) and not general discussion of policy. You then stated things that were happening to you outside the forum. I still supported you in that shit was not okay, even after the bullshit you said to me. Then because I disagree with you on some policies, you want to double down, group me with those fucks, and plaster how you feel about it. Even when other forum members pointed out these things, you continue to tell me I just have to take it and move on... All because you say so.


There's a old saying: You are the company you keep.

Don't be surprised when you neatly box yourself up and observers correctly label the box. We're all going to keep talking and at various points you're going to hear "that's that shit", and it's up to you to understand and keep it moving without trying to start a fight about it.



You're a fucking hypocrite and the one that made it personal. Just as you said as long as you're allowed to post, you'll say whatever the fuck you want. Ill keep pointing out your bullshit. Just because this is a new thread, I have to let go your comment? Nah, not happening.


I literally posted a screenshot of your reply to my disagreement. Your statement was indirect, but still stands as what it was meant to convey, along with telling me I am the same as a forum member who literally called another one the N word. Don't fucking play games "well if the shoe fits"... cover, and then tell me to be quiet.

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[kingkilburn]

Buddy, I just reread everything you've posted from the old thread to now. You're a straight up drama queen twisting events to invent victimhood. Crying about words I never said in a debate you made shitty.

Do you really want this to be a battle of screenshots? I've got those too. The thread was locked not deleted. Anyone that wants to can go see me not calling you racist and you make it personal the first time you disagreed.

Fucking stop already. Get over your fake hurt feelings and let the thread continue.

[mr.nismo.]

Buddy, I just reread everything you've posted from the old thread to now. You're a straight up drama queen twisting events to invent victimhood. Crying about words I never said in a debate you made shitty.

Do you really want this to be a battle of screenshots? I've got those too. The thread was locked not deleted. Anyone that wants to can go see me not calling you racist and you make it personal the first time you disagreed.

Fucking stop already. Get over your fake hurt feelings and let the thread continue.

Twisting events? The second you made your statement I told you something. I've been saying the same thing since then. I'm well aware the thread is still there, that's the point... My feelings aren't hurt, you idiot. You indirectly called me a racist, and grouped me in with zombie and rebuild. I'm not down for that shit, and told you something. You defend your words because I'm apparently the same in association because you say so... Ive stated multiple times to just retract those statements, and you refuse to. Instead you ignore what I say, tell me to deal with it/move on, tell anyone else thats told you something to fuck off, etc. That's literally when the last thread ended. You bitched about being called out not just by me, but other forum members telling you to chill. Yet you insist you're righteous and what you say goes.

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[Phlip]

So Giuliani won't be representing the impeached president, because of his own speech making him a witness.
The speech he says he took elements from the "HBO Documentary" Game of Thrones. He will probably see charges from that as well.

[Future240]

Buddy, I just reread everything you've posted from the old thread to now. You're a straight up drama queen twisting events to invent victimhood. Crying about words I never said in a debate you made shitty.

Do you really want this to be a battle of screenshots? I've got those too. The thread was locked not deleted. Anyone that wants to can go see me not calling you racist and you make it personal the first time you disagreed.

Fucking stop already. Get over your fake hurt feelings and let the thread continue.

I hope you were looking in the mirror when you said that. While I do not care to go back and reread everything that was said in the old thread in THIS thread you are just as responsible for perpetuating the derailing as he is.


Twisting events? The second you made your statement I told you something. I've been saying the same thing since then. I'm well aware the thread is still there, that's the point... My feelings aren't hurt, you idiot. You indirectly called me a racist, and grouped me in with zombie and rebuild. I'm not down for that shit, and told you something. You defend your words because I'm apparently the same in association because you say so... Ive stated multiple times to just retract those statements, and you refuse to. Instead you ignore what I say, tell me to deal with it/move on, tell anyone else thats told you something to fuck off, etc. That's literally when the last thread ended. You bitched about being called out not just by me, but other forum members telling you to chill. Yet you insist you're righteous and what you say goes.

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This part is true. He is ignoring your calls to retract said statements. If you don't care then don't pander in to it. You have clearly defended your point about not being racist. At this point going back and forth has no benefit to either of you.

Unlike zombie and s14rebuild I have not see anything racist from Mr. Nismo. As I stated before just because someone voted trump does not make them a racist. That word has become so water down thanks to people like you kilburn.

Clearly neither one of you is changing the other's mind. At this point tell each other to fuck off and go back to debating policy not this "you said, no you said" you two are doing now.

[Phlip]

Capitol under lockdown due to as-yet-unspecified "external security threat."
This last two and a half months has been a Social Studies teacher's dream.

[kingkilburn]

How are you going to sit there and say this is my fault when you haven't read the shit and I've been saying to move on? Jesus fucking christ. I never called him racist. He made it personal and shitty. He won't leave it alone.

I have nothing to retract. I've been saying to drop it and move on the entire fucking time in this thread.


Edit
https://imgur.com/a/Dj2xkLD
Don't fucking bullshit and gaslight me. I said what the fuck I said and I stand by it. If the mods want this to stop say so directly and without pretending I'm the one continuing to bring it up.

[KA24DESOneThree]

Genuinely asking: if the FDA can approve a vaccination for emergency use but not fully 'FDA Approve' it...what gives? If it's gonna be approved, why not just approve it. Is this in the realm of politics? I don't know, but someone mentioned the COVID plan for the US. Thought I'd let you know what we're getting over here.

India's put special approval on an Indian-developed vaccine as well.

Truth is, we are being used as guinea pigs for a relatively experimental drug- but the disease is worse than the cure. Also, the funding, creation, distribution, and application of the vaccine creates and keeps jobs pretty much everywhere.

Also, methinks end runs like this show the bureaucracy of the FDA a little too blatantly if one thinks about it.

[Future240]

How are you going to sit there and say this is my fault when you haven't read the shit and I've been saying to move on? Jesus fucking christ. I never called him racist. He made it personal and shitty. He won't leave it alone.

I have nothing to retract. I've been saying to drop it and move on the entire fucking time in this thread.


Edit
https://imgur.com/a/Dj2xkLD
Don't fucking bullshit and gaslight me. I said what the fuck I said and I stand by it. If the mods want this to stop say so directly and without pretending I'm the one continuing to bring it up.

Reading is fundamental.

I said it is both of you. I don't actually care what you two are arguing over. The fact is you both continue to bicker like children when it is pointless to do so. Hence derailing the thread.

[Future240]

Lockdown is lifted

https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/18/politics/capitol-lockdown-fire/index.html

[mr.nismo.]

How are you going to sit there and say this is my fault when you haven't read the shit and I've been saying to move on? Jesus fucking christ. I never called him racist. He made it personal and shitty. He won't leave it alone.

I have nothing to retract. I've been saying to drop it and move on the entire fucking time in this thread.


Edit
https://imgur.com/a/Dj2xkLD
Don't fucking bullshit and gaslight me. I said what the fuck I said and I stand by it. If the mods want this to stop say so directly and without pretending I'm the one continuing to bring it up.Your fucking comment was directed at me, no shit it was personal..

Ill unsub this thread then. Since you believe everyone should own up to the fucked up things they say except for you, because you're so fucking special. This kind of shit it why there's no real debate, just echo chamber bullshit.

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[ixfxi]

mr nismo...
you're fighting an uphill battle of stupidity with the king of stupidity

be proud that you are out-gunned. it takes a special type of moron to be on his level. haha

[deolio]

2 days until insurrection v2. I wish zombie was here to spew conspiracy theories. I enjoyed that more than incessant bickering about who said what lol


https://i.imgur.com/34svJiu.jpg

[RalliartRsX]

That just about sums it up lol

I've come to realize I am much more at ease and a happy person without visiting the old trump thread regularly lol

"Fuxk your feelings "

[FaLKoN240]

That just about sums it up lol

I've come to realize I am much more at ease and a happy person without visiting the old trump thread regularly lol

"Fuxk your feelings "

A few things:


We're changing hands of the presidency in less than 24 hours
That thread is closed
Those two have been banned


Zilvia seems like less of a hotbed for activity but an overall less hostile environment.

[KA24DESOneThree]

Anyone else just super fucking bummed out that the Capitol is surrounded by armed troops and locked behind checkpoints and barriers?

This isn't supposed to be us. Four years with that fucking orange goon in office broke the US.

[FaLKoN240]

Anyone else just super fucking bummed out that the Capitol is surrounded by armed troops and locked behind checkpoints and barriers?

This isn't supposed to be us. Four years with that fucking orange goon in office broke the US.

I saw this gem on some wannabe famous IG gal's story today.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-8iVRtd3KoJw/YAcADkt4v0I/AAAAAAAAvJA/Z53BFo76nmoaAgF4QoQVUEXz9LIB7m67ACK8BGAsYHg/s0/2021-01-19.jpg

[deolio]

I hope she realizes Biden isn't in charge yet... Not that I think it'd be any different....

What are you more afraid of, immigrants fleeing violence, terrorism, and poverty, OR entitled, radical, violent, ignorant Americans with weapons and terroristic intent?

[kingkilburn]

This is the unfortunate reality of using extremism to gain and maintain power. When you pivot from it it becomes a direct threat.

Silver lining, they can't ignore these people and how they were radicalized anymore.

[dizzariot]

There are antagonistic members on both sides of the spectrum, but one clearly denies being antagonistic and also uses the same tactics. How righteous of ye.

I know y'all can't imagine my tone of voice when I type things like this, but do y'all see how people are pushing for the divide while preaching the opposite?

I guess I don't care too much. I don't know your life experiences and you don't know mine...but it sounds like a lot of you have never been outside your homogenous group of friends or left CA for any significant amount of time. Of course I could be wrong, but dang.

This thread will be an echo chamber soon, and the loudest voices will deny it being such.

[kingkilburn]

Fine people on both sides of the tiki torches, eh?

Trying to finally address the elephant in the room after generations of asking for it isn't pushing the divide. Trying to kill members of Congress and the Vice President because you don't like the results of a free and fair election is. Fully outing those responsible, the means through which this was started and carried out, and justly punishing them in the court of law is how we heal the divide. Anything short of that is begging for repeat incidents.



Countdown to wild accusation based on something I most definitely have not said.

[dizzariot]

Fine people on both sides of the tiki torches, eh?

Trying to finally address the elephant in the room after generations of asking for it isn't pushing the divide. Trying to kill members of Congress and the Vice President because you don't like the results of a free and fair election is. Fully outing those responsible, the means through which this was started and carried out, and justly punishing them in the court of law is how we heal the divide. Anything short of that is begging for repeat incidents.



Countdown to wild accusation based on something I most definitely have not said.

Man if you are anything, it is predictable.



Fine people on both sides of the tiki torches, eh?

Countdown to wild accusation based on something I most definitely have not said.

You, my friend, are a Proud Boy/MAGA Man/Trumpster. This proves it. You use the same tactics and refuse to acknowledge it. Antagonizing...but it's okay for you, right? You hate bullies, but bully people?

Your response is so loaded with unspoken accusations that you've essentially outed yourself as the close-minded bigot everyone is trying to implore you not to be.

...but you'd probably say something like "Ye this is 'Murica n I know ma RIGHTS."

I wonder who you sound like...you wearing your Trump 2020 shirt?


OT:
I think this type of stuff IS on-topic for this thread. If we can debate/argue without turning into the two previously banned members we should do it, though I highly doubt anyone here is open to stepping down from the altar of righteousness.



That just about sums it up lol

I've come to realize I am much more at ease and a happy person without visiting the old trump thread regularly lol

"Fuxk your feelings "

Is the quote from kingkilburn? Or are we failing to acknowledge that Zilvia's paragon is damn near the same as the other dudes?

[kingkilburn]

You really need a bad guy, don't you. No existence without opposition.

I've been BEGGING to talk about anything but me and the old thread but you outright refuse. The crusade cannot be allowed to end. We must burn and destroy until we are satisfied!


We could be discussing dozens of things related to what's going to happen tomorrow morning after 4 years of bullshit. Cabinet nominations. Proposed changes to covid relief. Minimum wage increase. Impeachment fallout. Big tech antitrust under new DOJ leadership. The likelihood of legislation killing internal combustion at some point.
But no. Let's keep talking about me. Let's make claims about me based on nothing. Let's claim I said things you can't or won't quote.

[kingkilburn]

Mother fuckers have been talking mad shit for weeks and refuse to talk about anything else and I'm the one antagonizing. You guys want to keep pushing until I say something stupid like zombiewolf, s14rebuild, and very nearly corbic before he dropped out. It's not going to happen. It was never going to happen.

[dizzariot]

You really need a bad guy, don't you. No existence without opposition.

I've been BEGGING to talk about anything but me and the old thread but you outright refuse. The crusade cannot be allowed to end. We must burn and destroy until we are satisfied!


We could be discussing dozens of things related to what's going to happen tomorrow morning after 4 years of bullshit. Cabinet nominations. Proposed changes to covid relief. Minimum wage increase. Impeachment fallout. Big tech antitrust under new DOJ leadership. The likelihood of legislation killing internal combustion at some point.
But no. Let's keep talking about me. Let's make claims about me based on nothing. Let's claim I said things you can't or won't quote.

...brother I AM QUOTING you. You like to seem smart, the deny implied accusations (by using inflammatory language) against other members like you don't know how loaded words work. You are a troll of the highest order, like a Trumpster.

Like it or not, your behavior here IS part of the problem and IS worth discussing because people like YOU will hold us back. You just want to sweep it under the rug in the face of the overwhelming evidence that you are, in fact, a Proud Boy by your definition. The moderators see it, and I'm pretty sure the guys agreeing with you are tiptoeing around it because they can see it. They, however, are not attacking others.

I really need a bad guy, don't I. I have no existence without opposition, and opposition is anyone who disagrees with me in the slightest. *Goose-stepping intensifies*

...so you found that mirror afterall, eh?

[Corbic]

Man the kool-aid and hypocrisy runs deep around here.

[Corbic]

I am just waiting for Obama's post-Katrina FEMA coffins and Obamacare death panels to come back.https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/recommendations.html

[kingkilburn]

How in the fuck do you assholes hound me for days over some shit I never said and I'm the bully? Now you're calling me a proud boy and Trump supporter but you're not antagonizing?

You are LITERALLY doing what you claim I'm doing while I never wanted any part of this as I've consistently said. Move the fuck on.

[deolio]

Cabinet nominations. Proposed changes to covid relief. Minimum wage increase. The likelihood of legislation killing internal combustion at some point.

Curious to see how many unqualified friends (financiers) Biden stacks his cabinet with.

Another $1400 would be nice if I ever receive the first $600... as long as he doesn't think that's going to be enough to sustain people through another shutdown :facepalm:

Curious to see how minimum wage increase works out. I have yet to hear a super solid argument for or against. Seems somewhat arbitrary to me.

They said by 2050 right? I hope they implement some sort of battery manufacturing standards to go along with it. Currently electric cars just outsources the environmental damage to a different country where the materials for the batteries are mined. As if pollution isn't a global problem. Let's just open the door and turn on the heat while we're at it :Ownedd:

[dizzariot]

How in the fuck do you assholes hound me for days over some shit I never said and I'm the bully? Now you're calling me a proud boy and Trump supporter but you're not antagonizing?

You are LITERALLY doing what you claim I'm doing while I never wanted any part of this as I've consistently said. Move the fuck on.

Well, I got what I wanted. I guess you DO know how antagonizing language works...but (again) only when it's used against you. Funny.

By assholes, do you mean mr.nismo and I? What about the moderators? I guess this is a case of selective outrage, wouldn't you agree?

You're right. You didn't outright say it. You didn't have the balls to say it. You just beat around the bush. I fail to see how someone will such a good grasp on the English language can deny knowing what 'insinuating' is.

Mods, other members, if you think I derailed the thread I'm sorry. I think the way humans are interacting on the internet (in regards to our country and our politics) is DEFINITELY worthy of 'hashing out' here. I personally liked the way mr.nismo presented his thoughts and if he feels ostracized from this thread due to another member I think we should address it. if I'm wrong, let me know.

For the record, I have not neg-rep'd anyone here for disagreeing, but I guess I caught some from the last thread. I still won't stoop to that level.

[dizzariot]

Currently electric cars just outsources the environmental damage to a different country where the materials for the batteries are mined. As if pollution isn't a global problem. Let's just open the door and turn on the heat while we're at it :Ownedd:

Dude I wonder what this means for CA. They want to be 'ahead of the curve' and be there by 2035...

https://www.gov.ca.gov/2020/09/23/governor-newsom-announces-california-will-phase-out-gasoline-powered-cars-drastically-reduce-demand-for-fossil-fuel-in-californias-fight-against-climate-change/

[kingkilburn]

The big impact I see from a minimum wage increase is a massive increase in taxable income in states that have been below water in tax revenue for decades. That's a lot of local funding for infrastructure, education, healthcare, etc, and it won't have to be in the form of federal handouts with strings attached.


I've always been dubious of the rush to hybrids and all electrics specifically because of the lead acid and lithium batteries. There's a lot of dirty politics involved there with seemingly few people speaking up with better solutions. Just the container ships moving raw materials around had to be more pollution than modern cars driving around.

[mav1178]

Genuinely asking: if the FDA can approve a vaccination for emergency use but not fully 'FDA Approve' it...what gives? If it's gonna be approved, why not just approve it. Is this in the realm of politics? I don't know, but someone mentioned the COVID plan for the US. Thought I'd let you know what we're getting over here.

It means they are giving authorization based on an emergency situation, bypassing the normal waiting period for studies to be completed (and for any anomalies to show up post-vaccination)

https://www.fda.gov/vaccines-blood-biologics/vaccines/emergency-use-authorization-vaccines-explained

I think the main thing is, don't be stuck on the terminology. EUA is approval, and until there is data to prove otherwise it will stay in place indefinitely as long as there is an emergency (COVID-19)


Dude I wonder what this means for CA. They want to be 'ahead of the curve' and be there by 2035...

https://www.gov.ca.gov/2020/09/23/governor-newsom-announces-california-will-phase-out-gasoline-powered-cars-drastically-reduce-demand-for-fossil-fuel-in-californias-fight-against-climate-change/

I have said this on other car forums, my next non-gasoline car will be some type of fuel cell car.

The 2021 Mirai is promising but 1) the trunk is too damn small, and 2) the back seats are too damn small.

[dizzariot]

It means they are giving authorization based on an emergency situation, bypassing the normal waiting period for studies to be completed (and for any anomalies to show up post-vaccination)

https://www.fda.gov/vaccines-blood-biologics/vaccines/emergency-use-authorization-vaccines-explained

I think the main thing is, don't be stuck on the terminology. EUA is approval, and until there is data to prove otherwise it will stay in place indefinitely as long as there is an emergency (COVID-19)




I have said this on other car forums, my next non-gasoline car will be some type of fuel cell car.

The 2021 Mirai is promising but 1) the trunk is too damn small, and 2) the back seats are too damn small.

Yeah I did some more research last night. We're 1B so we should be seeing it soon.

Here's a fun fact: The Mirai is some Prius-looking thing here in Japan. I just saw the US Mirai this morning on Doug Demuro's channel lol.

Knowing CA, I wonder how much more expensive it will be to keep our SChassis cars road legal by then...

[kingkilburn]

Well, I got what I wanted. I guess you DO know how antagonizing language works...but (again) only when it's used against you. Funny.

By assholes, do you mean mr.nismo and I? What about the moderators? I guess this is a case of selective outrage, wouldn't you agree?

You're right. You didn't outright say it. You didn't have the balls to say it. You just beat around the bush. I fail to see how someone will such a good grasp on the English language can deny knowing what 'insinuating' is.

Mods, other members, if you think I derailed the thread I'm sorry. I think the way humans are interacting on the internet (in regards to our country and our politics) is DEFINITELY worthy of 'hashing out' here. I personally liked the way mr.nismo presented his thoughts and if he feels ostracized from this thread due to another member I think we should address it. if I'm wrong, let me know.

For the record, I have not neg-rep'd anyone here for disagreeing, but I guess I caught some from the last thread. I still won't stoop to that level.


I said what the fuck I said. I'm outspoken and I never mince words. I have been crystal fucking clear the whole time. If you think I was talking about you you're right. You're being an asshole and a bully. I never once told anyone to not post. Don't put that shit on me. You clearly are not looking for resolution or understanding. Just keep stirring that pot while living up to the very letter of what you claim to be criticising.


Kiss my ass and fuck off. Was that clear and direct enough for you?


I cannot wait for a mod to show up only to tell me I'm out of line after pages of this bullshit. This is fanfuckingtastic. So much for civility.

[dizzariot]

I said what the fuck I said. I'm outspoken and I never mince words. I have been crystal fucking clear the whole time. If you think I was talking about you you're right. *You're being an asshole and a bully. I never once told anyone to not post. Don't put that shit on me. You clearly are not looking for resolution or understanding. Just keep stirring that pot while living up to the very letter of what you claim to be criticising.


Kiss my ass and fuck off. Was that clear and direct enough for you?


I cannot wait for a mod to show up only to tell me I'm out of line after pages of this bullshit. This is fanfuckingtastic. So much for civility.

*See below keyword

hypocrisy
/hɪˈpɒkrɪsi/

noun
the practice of claiming to have higher standards or more noble beliefs than is the case.

Maybe you having to deal with me will help you work out what the above definition means. I used hypocrisy to show you yours. Call me Morpheus.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTw_xoXYI7k-qa4dFmPXcadSymvPRZjB2U-Tw&usqp=CAU

I, like other members, don't believe there's a resolution or understanding to be found with you. You will only accept 100% compliance and people just don't work like that. Anyone 'less' than your expectations of them are the scum of the Earth.
Fun fact: that's how you bully someone into becoming a Trump supporter or a Biden supporter or a whatever-you're-against supporter. You are radicalizing your opposition. Congrats, you just played yourself.

[kingkilburn]

Yes. You are in fact a hypocrite. Fuck off.

[dizzariot]

Yes. You are in fact a hypocrite. Fuck off.

I will consider fucking off. You would like me to and I don't know if I would like to, but in the spirit of debate I will consider your side of the issue.

Thank you.

[kingkilburn]

Apparently Trump wants to start his own political party. Terrifying and also potentially the best possible outcome.

https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/trump-impeachment-biden-inauguration/card/90pPMzFPqr5fMzg1Bkbs

[RalliartRsX]

A few things:


We're changing hands of the presidency in less than 24 hours
That thread is closed
Those two have been banned


Zilvia seems like less of a hotbed for activity but an overall less hostile environment.

Meh I'm good. corbic is back so no thanks to that shitshow of engagement.....

He, just as much as the rest of them, have blood on their hands and they can rightly fuck off as they pedaled the trump shit (and STILL do) so hard.

Sadly. NOTHING has changed.

[Phlip]

Anyone taking bets on another terrorist riot in DC today?
The only person on Zilvia with apparent knowledge of the first one got himself banned when it didn't have the intended outcome.

[Future240]

Anyone taking bets on another terrorist riot in DC today?
The only person on Zilvia with apparent knowledge of the first one got himself banned when it didn't have the intended outcome.

I'll call.

With all the troops stationed and fbi locking people up the maga group will not do a thing other than bitch on twitter.

[Corbic]

Anyone taking bets on another terrorist riot in DC today?
The only person on Zilvia with apparent knowledge of the first one got himself banned when it didn't have the intended outcome.Another? When was the last one? 9/11?

[ixfxi]

Another? When was the last one? 9/11?

hahaha

well said

politics as us-u-al

[kingkilburn]

Today is the first taste of normalcy in more than four years. It's not what I wanted but holy shit is it good.

[KA24DESOneThree]

Another? When was the last one? 9/11?

You're on the wrong side of history, my dude.

The attack on the Capitol fits the literal definition of terrorism: "the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, especially for political purposes."

Violence: attacking police and destroying windows and offices. Literally beating an officer to death.

Threats: "Hang Mike Pence"

They see pantifa as dangerous domestic terrorist that are using violence and destruction as a way to intimidate elected officials and the public in order to circumvent our legal process to get what they want.

Couldn't be anymore un-American.

https://zilvia.net/f/showpost.php?p=6389115&postcount=1045

[Corbic]

You're on the wrong side of history, my dude.

The attack on the Capitol fits the literal definition of terrorism: "the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, especially for political purposes."

Violence: attacking police and destroying windows and offices. Literally beating an officer to death.

Threats: "Hang Mike Pence"



https://zilvia.net/f/showpost.php?p=6389115&postcount=1045First, I'm not your Dude.

Second, oh the mountain of hypocrisy.

So pushing past some barricades and taking an unguided tour of the capital is "terrorism"...

But..

Firebombing the Federal Court House in Portland is an act of protest....

What about when protestors stormed the Hart Senate Office Building to disrupt the confirmation hearings for Judge Kavanaugh... Two days in a row?

Was that terrorism?

What about when protestors stormed and occupied the Wisconsin Capital building for like a fucking month to stop all government work on right to work legislation?

Was that terrorism?

What about when protestors seized an entire 4 blocks of a city, buried a police HQ l, murdered 12 people and declared independence from thr US...

Was that Terrorism?

You telling me I'm on the wrong side of history is like Adolf telling Mackensen he was on the wrong side of history in 1933.

[KA24DESOneThree]

When in doubt, Kampf it out. Folx like you always find a way.

The difference between you and me is that I didn't condone any of the things you just listed. I didn't downplay them and pretend that they weren't what they were because the people may have agreed with me politically.

Antifa and BLM were protesting now? Not rioting? It was rioting before- did you just mis-type? Were they protests because now the Capitol invaders can be protestors, rather than rioters?

C'mon, Corbic.

[kingkilburn]

Speak of Corbic and he doth appear. I should never have mentioned him.

[kingkilburn]

This feels huge. If they are willing to come back to the table in good faith after what Trump and Pompeo pulled it kind of changes the regional narrative we've been running with for decades.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-iran-nuclear-usa-idUSKBN29P0NK

[kingkilburn]

From Chris Wallace's mouth to your ears.

https://twitter.com/LisPower1/status/1351948445679046658?s=19

[brndck]

First, I'm not your Dude.

Second, oh the mountain of hypocrisy.

So pushing past some barricades and taking an unguided tour of the capital is "terrorism"...

But..

Firebombing the Federal Court House in Portland is an act of protest....

What about when protestors stormed the Hart Senate Office Building to disrupt the confirmation hearings for Judge Kavanaugh... Two days in a row?
Was that terrorism?
What about when protestors stormed and occupied the Wisconsin Capital building for like a fucking month to stop all government work on right to work legislation?
Was that terrorism?
What about when protestors seized an entire 4 blocks of a city, buried a police HQ l, murdered 12 people and declared independence from thr US...
Was that Terrorism?
You telling me I'm on the wrong side of history is like Adolf telling Mackensen he was on the wrong side of history in 1933.

i'm seeing a pattern here. . . . . :bash:

[Corbic]

When in doubt, Kampf it out. Folx like you always find a way.

The difference between you and me is that I didn't condone any of the things you just listed. I didn't downplay them and pretend that they weren't what they were because the people may have agreed with me politically.

Antifa and BLM were protesting now? Not rioting? It was rioting before- did you just mis-type? Were they protests because now the Capitol invaders can be protestors, rather than rioters?

C'mon, Corbic.Authoritarian is as Authoritarian does.

Please show me condoning anyone or anything. You linked me supporting Homeland targeting suspected agitators and arresting them in low profile ways.

I'm glad you'd rather get into a historical semantics debate rather then addressing the hypocrisy and actual issues.

The reality is, what happened on January 6th was par for the course in terms of the last 10 years of political based action - riot, protest or otherwise.

Yet you and your corporate overlords are shitting themselves, black listing, banning and calling for counter terrorism efforts. How long before China Joe starts drone striking people?

If you had a memory longer than the latest news cycle, you'd realize the "Right" has not moved to the extreme. They haven't moved in 60 years. It's the left that has moved and just calls the right extreme because they are farther away.

So rather then "coming together", you've impeached the president again, which means fuck all while accosting 80 million Americans as extremist terrorists.

This could have all been avoided had you accepted the proposal to hold a 10 independent investigation to review the accusations of voter fraud.

After all , you did support a now debunked 4 year Russia Collusion Investigation predicated on what was essentially election tampering by the DNC....

[Corbic]

i'm seeing a pattern here. . . . . :bash:Yeah, inconvenient truths.

Your side does it for 10 years it's fair. Other side does it once and it's time for a screeching party and when someone points out thr hypocrisy you plug your ears.

[kingkilburn]

You're 100% correct about the right not moving. They've been terrorizing the country for generations. Bombing churches. Shooting up clinics. Torching entire neighborhoods. Using the power of government to render undesirables second class citizens.

The only difference now is being able to go live on Facebook so the whole world sees it in real time.

[deolio]

you'd realize the "Right" has not moved to the extreme. They haven't moved in 60 years.

In theory, sure, because they keep peddling the same bullshit because it continues to sell votes (same goes for the left), but they are nothing like the parties 60 years ago. Everyone is owned by someone other than the citizens and the ideas they're supposed to represent. America, a country by the corporate-backed upper class for the corporation-owning 1%. Isn't it beautiful? Looking down from Mount Olympus at the little red ants fighting the little black ants for our crumbs instead of climbing onto our table is H-I-L-ARIOUS!

[dizzariot]

It pains me to say that Corbic brings up a valid point that no one wants to see, but he does. I honestly never heard the term 'what-aboutisms' until it was typed in this thread, but when you're comparing things isn't that how you go about it? He isn't comparing something recent (Capitol) to something that happened forever ago...

If it's terrorism for one act and not the other, well, you know. It's just like Twitter.

Where a lot of people see defense of some fuckwit they turn a blind eye to the even application of the rules. The blanket of righteousness is warm but is also blinding.

[kingkilburn]

Comparing things isn't what what-about-ism is doing. He's deflecting by drawing open ended bad faith comparisons. Don't fall for literal soviet social control tactics.
Any discussion of BLM is a separate matter from what happened at the Capitol two weeks ago. I'd be happy to have those discussions but not with constant gotchas and deflection in play.

[dizzariot]

Comparing things isn't what what-about-ism is doing. He's deflecting by drawing open ended bad faith comparisons. Don't fall for literal soviet social control tactics.
Any discussion of BLM is a separate matter from what happened at the Capitol two weeks ago. I'd be happy to have those discussions but not with constant gotchas and deflection in play.

It's not designed to be a gotcha.

Twitter bans Trump and people planning the Capitol siege, but was there ever any bans or reviews of the people that turned the BLM protests into riots?

What about the city of CHAZ?

These are honest questions, and not an attempt at a 'gotcha'. If anything, the 'gotcha' would be aimed at Twitter and the powers-at-be not labeling things with the same methodology.

EDIT: I just re-read my post and it's shittily written, but I am having a hard go at life today. Apologies in advance.

[Corbic]

In theory, sure, because they keep peddling the same bullshit because it continues to sell votes (same goes for the left), but they are nothing like the parties 60 years ago. Everyone is owned by someone other than the citizens and the ideas they're supposed to represent. America, a country by the corporate-backed upper class for the corporation-owning 1%. Isn't it beautiful? Looking down from Mount Olympus at the little red ants fighting the little black ants for our crumbs instead of climbing onto our table is H-I-L-ARIOUS!You do realize the Right / Left dichotomy has nothing to do with GOP / DNC. It goes back to the French Revolution to describe the two sides of the table.

The GOP is nothing but thr DNC Lite Edition. The DNC being an Authoritarian Corruption machine that will do anything to stay in power.

The DNCs sudden tailspin for Queer Activism is nothing but a vote grab. Their touting of minority advancement an utter lie. Unchecked immigration just means more votes.

After a year of BLM/Antifa riots what did the DNC give ya'll? A woman sniffing racist who helped build the police state your crying about and thr Top-Cop corrupt DA that laughed about locking black men up for slave labor.... Both of whom are 100% supported by those big tech and investment billionaires you so hate.

Good Job. Hope and Change you can believe in.

Who wants to take bets on how many weeks until we invade a 3rd world country or start lobbing missiles at children?

[Future240]

Read and lets discuss

https://www.defenseone.com/ideas/2021/01/qanon-destroying-gop-within/171486/

[ixfxi]

You do realize the Right / Left dichotomy has nothing to do with GOP / DNC. It goes back to the French Revolution to describe the two sides of the table.

The GOP is nothing but thr DNC Lite Edition. The DNC being an Authoritarian Corruption machine that will do anything to stay in power.

The DNCs sudden tailspin for Queer Activism is nothing but a vote grab. Their touting of minority advancement an utter lie. Unchecked immigration just means more votes.

After a year of BLM/Antifa riots what did the DNC give ya'll? A woman sniffing racist who helped build the police state your crying about and thr Top-Cop corrupt DA that laughed about locking black men up for slave labor.... Both of whom are 100% supported by those big tech and investment billionaires you so hate.

Good Job. Hope and Change you can believe in.

Who wants to take bets on how many weeks until we invade a 3rd world country or start lobbing missiles at children?

couldnt agree with you more. as far as i'm concerned, they can all go and get fucked.

i love how people think ANY of these people have our interests in mind. pandering douchebags

[dizzariot]

Read and lets discuss

https://www.defenseone.com/ideas/2021/01/qanon-destroying-gop-within/171486/

This is good:

If the GOP is to have a future outside the fever dreams of internet trolls, we have to call out falsehoods and conspiracy theories unequivocally. We have to repudiate people who peddle those lies.

We also have to show a healthier path forward. The frustrations that caused so many people to turn in desperate directions for a political voice are not going away when Trump leaves the White House for Mar-a-Lago, because deception and demagoguery are the inevitable consequences of a politics that is profoundly, systemically dysfunctional. We must begin by asking how we got to such a discontented place, where we are mired in lies, rage, and now violence. In this essay, I am focusing on the maladies of the right, but Americans across the political spectrum are falling prey to the siren song of conspiracism.

but holy FUCK this is the winner:

Sensing a chance at tribal expansion, some on the left are thrilled by the chaos on the right, and they?re eager to seize the moment to banish from polite society not just those who participated and encouraged violence, but anyone with an R next to his or her name. Already on Twitter, a conservative position as long-standing as opposition to abortion has been recast as ?domestic terrorism.? An MSNBC host talked about the ?de-Baathification? of the GOP, comparing rank-and-file Republicans to supporters of Saddam Hussein. In an exchange on CNN, a host accused Republican voters of making common cause with Nazis and the Ku Klux Klan. Yet the exploitative overreaction by the left should not allow an underreaction by the right.

That, my friend, was a fucking GREAT article. I am going to share it.

[kingkilburn]

It's not designed to be a gotcha.

Twitter bans Trump and people planning the Capitol siege, but was there ever any bans or reviews of the people that turned the BLM protests into riots?

What about the city of CHAZ?

These are honest questions, and not an attempt at a 'gotcha'. If anything, the 'gotcha' would be aimed at Twitter and the powers-at-be not labeling things with the same methodology.

EDIT: I just re-read my post and it's shittily written, but I am having a hard go at life today. Apologies in advance.

The people that stormed the capitol and the people that turned BLM protests into riots are the very same. Proud Boys, 3%ers, Oath Keepers(who actually switched sides after more of the conservative political space homogenized), Qanon... Not to mention the police themselves, who have been noticably absent from right wing protest. If what you seek to protest is misuse of force wilful property damage is not a viable path forward.

The shit in Portland is complicated and predates BLM by years. They've got some nutty anarchists looking for any excuse to break shit. I truly wish they'd minded their own business. Most of the people calling themselves antifa are closer to those anarchists than I'm comfortable with.


The conservative militias that act as paramilitary cells and riot anarchists have really been fucking things up for everyone. They warp the narrative by stealing the focus. The vast vast majority of gun owners are not about walking around in tactical gear trying to intimidate, just like protestors aren't trying to destroy their communities.

[Future240]

This is good:

If the GOP is to have a future outside the fever dreams of internet trolls, we have to call out falsehoods and conspiracy theories unequivocally. We have to repudiate people who peddle those lies.

We also have to show a healthier path forward. The frustrations that caused so many people to turn in desperate directions for a political voice are not going away when Trump leaves the White House for Mar-a-Lago, because deception and demagoguery are the inevitable consequences of a politics that is profoundly, systemically dysfunctional. We must begin by asking how we got to such a discontented place, where we are mired in lies, rage, and now violence. In this essay, I am focusing on the maladies of the right, but Americans across the political spectrum are falling prey to the siren song of conspiracism.

but holy FUCK this is the winner:

Sensing a chance at tribal expansion, some on the left are thrilled by the chaos on the right, and they?re eager to seize the moment to banish from polite society not just those who participated and encouraged violence, but anyone with an R next to his or her name. Already on Twitter, a conservative position as long-standing as opposition to abortion has been recast as ?domestic terrorism.? An MSNBC host talked about the ?de-Baathification? of the GOP, comparing rank-and-file Republicans to supporters of Saddam Hussein. In an exchange on CNN, a host accused Republican voters of making common cause with Nazis and the Ku Klux Klan. Yet the exploitative overreaction by the left should not allow an underreaction by the right.

That, my friend, was a fucking GREAT article. I am going to share it.

I thought so too.

The writer had so many great points.

Politics has become such a teamsport these days. The left brands the right as evil/racists etc. The right brands the left as soulless idiots hell bent on destroying the nation.

Look at media. The fact that instead of being bias like it should be, it is right vs left media.

Like the writer put

America?s junk-food media diet
The way Americans are consuming and producing news?or what passes for it these days?is driving us mad. This has been said many times, but the problem has worsened in the past five years. On the supply side, media outlets have discovered that dialing up the rhetoric increases clicks, eyeballs, and revenue. On the demand side, readers and viewers like to see their opinions affirmed, rather than challenged. When everybody?s outraged, everybody wins?at least in the short term.

Outrage sells. The problem is the lasting effects of said outrage. It stops discourse from happening and puts us against one another instead of simply disagreeing.

Just look at the prior thread and this one. It is less of a "I agree to disagree" and more of a "fuck you, I am right".

[kingkilburn]

I'm at a point with news media that I want to see something coming from AP and Reuters before I even look at other takes. Report the facts and provide context, that's it.

[kingkilburn]

#BidenErasedWomen is trending on Twitter because Biden signed an "Executive Order on Preventing and Combating Discrimination on the Basis of Gender Identity or Sexual Orientation".

There's your blue Qanon type shit. Insanity.

[deolio]

Good Job. Hope and Change you can believe in.

Yet again glossing over the part where I say, "same goes for the left," eh? Predisposed to making every conversation into some divisive bullshit. They're both fucked. You're delusional if you think one is better than the other. You think it's a dichotomy, but it's more like a symbiotic relationship.

Outrage sells.

The ills of capitalism know no bounds! There's no reasonable way to solve this problem. It really comes down to the person taking in the media to do their due-diligence and cross reference several sources across the political spectrum if they really want to build a global understanding of a specific topic - but I think most do not. We enjoy the bias confirmation.

[Future240]

The ills of capitalism know no bounds! There's no reasonable way to solve this problem. It really comes down to the person taking in the media to do their due-diligence and cross reference several sources across the political spectrum if they really want to build a global understanding of a specific topic - but I think most do not. We enjoy the bias confirmation.

Get your rage here! Rage for sell! Outrage here!

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT_t3YdDjLeEsYksUvR5APO9temkGbSN UcHiw&usqp=CAU
https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61nJctt1M+L._AC_SX522_.jpg

[Corbic]

https://youtu.be/R-lIEqYfn1Y

Not like it matters anymore, but the irony is unreal.

[dizzariot]

The conservative militias that act as paramilitary cells and riot anarchists have really been fucking things up for everyone. They warp the narrative by stealing the focus. The vast vast majority of gun owners are not about walking around in tactical gear trying to intimidate, just like protestors aren't trying to destroy their communities.

I agree here. Would you agree that condemning one movement due to these two parties you mentioned is also 'unfair' if you don't condemn the other? Not saying you specifically, just in general.


Outrage sells. The problem is the lasting effects of said outrage. It stops discourse from happening and puts us against one another instead of simply disagreeing.

Just look at the prior thread and this one. It is less of a "I agree to disagree" and more of a "fuck you, I am right".

There's a quote making the rounds on social media about black ants and red ants. When placed in a jar together. they don't attack. When someone shakes the jar, they go bonkers. The media is shaking the glass, and I still can't figure out 'to what end'...just dollars and cents?


It really comes down to the person taking in the media to do their due-diligence and cross reference several sources across the political spectrum if they really want to build a global understanding of a specific topic - but I think most do not. We enjoy the bias confirmation.

I don't know how old you are (I already sound preachy) but the two main dudes I was friends with in the military were my younger brother's age. They are good people at their core, but I always take the 'ol' peepaw' stance when I tell them they gotta stop blindly consuming 'news' from Twitter and Facebook. There's no need for confirmation, it's just easier to read and repeat than it is to research.

[kingkilburn]

If you mean the two political parties, fuck both if them. There's some decent to good members of both in office but as organizations they both fucking suck.

If you mean the "two sides" of the issue I would argue that there aren't two sides or even a "correct" viewpoint. Having any social issue be able turn into anarchists and militias lobbing molotovs is something we should all be ashamed of. We've got to be able to have good faith discussion and know that the solutions chosen might not always be our favorite.

[collegekid]

I wrote a reply earlier but Zilvia was too busy at the moment.

The only thing I care to write again is my disappointment in the fact that people in general can?t handle multi faceted situations. Everything has to be heads vs tails, red team vs blue team, us vs them.

You?re either a democrat or republican, can?t be anything else.

Keep up the conversations here though. Maybe we will get somewhere.



On another note, this shit is bananas.


https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2021/01/22/national-guard-troops-moved-to-a-cramped-parking-garage-complain-of-ingratitude-after-being-ordered-to-bug-out-of-capitol-building-they-came-to-protect/


What a great way to treat the people who came running to protect your sorry ass.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[kingkilburn]

Basically every representative and senator was scrambling for a solution. Have to wonder who made that decision.

[Antihero983]

Not a good look for anyone, for sure.

[RalliartRsX]

I wrote a reply earlier but Zilvia was too busy at the moment.

The only thing I care to write again is my disappointment in the fact that people in general can?t handle multi faceted situations. Everything has to be heads vs tails, red team vs blue team, us vs them.

You?re either a democrat or republican, can?t be anything else.

Keep up the conversations here though. Maybe we will get somewhere.



On another note, this shit is bananas.


https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2021/01/22/national-guard-troops-moved-to-a-cramped-parking-garage-complain-of-ingratitude-after-being-ordered-to-bug-out-of-capitol-building-they-came-to-protect/


What a great way to treat the people who came running to protect your sorry ass.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I wish people would read past the headlines....No where in the article does it state elected officials made the call.

However after 3 sec Google search, it was VERY apparent it was NOT the doing of the elected officials but the DC Capitol Police....

Thousands of National Guardsmen were allowed back into the Capitol Thursday night, hours after U.S. Capitol Police officials ordered them to vacate the facilities, sending them outdoors or to nearby parking garages after two weeks pulling security duty after the deadly riot on Jan. 6.

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/01/21/national-guard-troops-vacate-capitol-461220

This is a perfect example of why we cannot have a civil discussion.....

And another example of how people need to look past just a headline....

That was an ABSOLUTE SHITTTY article by the Military Times.NO citation, no official remarks, no nothing. Just another story to throw incendiaries at the fire.

Fuck that

[RalliartRsX]

Basically every representative and senator was scrambling for a solution. Have to wonder who made that decision.

I recommend you take the time to do a little digging instead of running with a headline....

See my post above.

[Future240]

This is a special kind of stupid.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/rep-marjorie-taylor-greene-files-articles-of-impeachment-against-biden

[collegekid]

I recommend you take the time to do a little digging instead of running with a headline....

See my post above.

Hey there, I'm NOT trying to say any of the following

-It's the Dems fault
-It's the Reps fault
-Bad Capitol Police Nyahhhhh
-Any blame on a specific group of people, however you label them


I don't know the specifics. All I'm trying to say is, National Guard was deployed to protect the Capitol. I don't care who called and said "National Guard, HALP!" Look at this treatment after they served their purpose. This is embarrassing and outrageous. It is deplorable that this is what you subject your protectors to.

Don't turn this into "Collegekid is a Left Libtard Democrat or White supremacist MAGA Republican". I'm just saying, "Bad situation is Bad."


Edit
I do have both articles open, no one is owning up to exactly who made the Guardsmen GTFO. I'm not going to sit here and pull quotes from both articles that basically say "It wasn't me".

Edit #2
Is twitter really the official channel for communication that our Lawmakers/Government workers are using? Is this where we should be watching our political news? I'm genuinely asking.

A lot of people are still sippin the DumbF*ck juice apparently. In all this Democrat vs Republican party nonsense, I'm not seeing any reassurance that they are working for the people. This is just like watching a bad soap opera at this point.

[RalliartRsX]

Hey there, I'm NOT trying to say any of the following

-It's the Dems fault
-It's the Reps fault
-Bad Capitol Police Nyahhhhh
-Any blame on a specific group of people, however you label them


I don't know the specifics. All I'm trying to say is, National Guard was deployed to protect the Capitol. I don't care who called and said "National Guard, HALP!" Look at this treatment after they served their purpose. This is embarrassing and outrageous. It is deplorable that this is what you subject your protectors to.



And this is where I call bullshit. As you stated in your very post

What a great way to treat the people who came running to protect your sorry ass.


That to me states you are saying it is the elected officials....As they were the ones under siege in the Capitol.....

Either way, I agree with your sentiments. It is absolute bullshit situation in and out.....

Anyways, I was talking in generalities. And my statement you quoted above was directed to king....

[RalliartRsX]

Hey there, I'm NOT trying to say any of the following

-It's the Dems fault
-It's the Reps fault
-Bad Capitol Police Nyahhhhh
-Any blame on a specific group of people, however you label them


I don't know the specifics. All I'm trying to say is, National Guard was deployed to protect the Capitol. I don't care who called and said "National Guard, HALP!" Look at this treatment after they served their purpose. This is embarrassing and outrageous. It is deplorable that this is what you subject your protectors to.

Don't turn this into "Collegekid is a Left Libtard Democrat or White supremacist MAGA Republican". I'm just saying, "Bad situation is Bad."


Edit
I do have both articles open, no one is owning up to exactly who made the Guardsmen GTFO. I'm not going to sit here and pull quotes from both articles that basically say "It wasn't me".

Edit #2
Is twitter really the official channel for communication that our Lawmakers/Government workers are using? Is this where we should be watching our political news? I'm genuinely asking.

A lot of people are still sippin the DumbF*ck juice apparently. In all this Democrat vs Republican party nonsense, I'm not seeing any reassurance that they are working for the people. This is just like watching a bad soap opera at this point.


EDIT 2 addressed; trump essentially made twitter his legislative and communication branch the last 4 years. How many high level folks has he fired over twitter before notifying the proper channels??

Not to be a dick, but this has been the norm for the last 4 years since trump took office. Not sure if you were paying attention or not :(

However, twitter is a tool. And just like everything else, it is HOW you use it. That is key.

There is alot of bullshit to sift through, but a little time and thought, you can wade through all of the crap.

Sorry to come off as a dick. But man, I wish people would write better fucking articles.

[KA24DESOneThree]

Authoritarian is as Authoritarian does.

What can I say? As someone who has voted for anti-war, pro-market, pro-freedom, small-government candidates in the past three elections, I am about as authoritarian as they come. I have a fenced-off section of my back yard that has shackles anchored to the ground every twelve feet; it's going to be my gulag for people who oppose the rule of my leaders.

Please show me condoning anyone or anything. You linked me supporting Homeland targeting suspected agitators and arresting them in low profile ways.

Just using your tactics against you. feelsbadman.jpg

I'm glad you'd rather get into a historical semantics debate rather then addressing the hypocrisy and actual issues.

The reality is, what happened on January 6th was par for the course in terms of the last 10 years of political based action - riot, protest or otherwise.

Yet you and your corporate overlords are shitting themselves, black listing, banning and calling for counter terrorism efforts. How long before China Joe starts drone striking people?

Me and my corporate overlords? Au contraire, mon frere, I didn't shit myself or call for the banning of accounts. I merely felt incredible disappointment that the people would damage the Capitol and interrupt a session of Congress because they were too brainwashed to accept the truth.

Joe Biden's not my president, just as his predecessors weren't. You're too busy thinking I'm a pansexual genderqueer antifa rioter to realize that I find Biden and most of his cabinet reprehensible- but far less reprehensible than the idiot snakes who occupied the office prior.

If you had a memory longer than the latest news cycle, you'd realize the "Right" has not moved to the extreme. They haven't moved in 60 years. It's the left that has moved and just calls the right extreme because they are farther away.

If a large portion of the Right believes a fair election is stolen, that is extreme. If a large portion of the Right is willing to eschew conservative values in favor of electing a New York City chameleon, that is extreme. It's really hard to be the party of family values with Trump holding the reins.

So rather then "coming together", you've impeached the president again, which means fuck all while accosting 80 million Americans as extremist terrorists.

Reddit is not everyone. I don't think you or my employees or my father are extremist terrorists. Extremists, maybe, but terrorists? No. Everyone who breached the Capitol with the intention of damaging democracy is a terrorist, and you should condemn them in the strongest manner. But I'm not hearing that from you or my employees or my father. I'm hearing excuses, not outrage.

This could have all been avoided had you accepted the proposal to hold a 10 independent investigation to review the accusations of voter fraud.

After all , you did support a now debunked 4 year Russia Collusion Investigation predicated on what was essentially election tampering by the DNC....

So should we have had an independent investigation of the Russian collusion case? After all, if we cannot trust our government, we're gonna have to outsource everything. If we're going to outsource anything, the full financials from the past decade and a security review of the third-party investigators would be required for the United States to trust them.

You keep thinking that everyone who disagrees with you is a Democrat. Not true, has not been true, but like s14 and zombie, you consider yourself a persecuted minority, beaten on by big mean Dems.

Deolio? Not a Dem. Me? Not a Dem. Kilburn? Not a Dem.

And yet, you think we are. You think, like many conservatives do, that you're nailed to the cross as the salvation of the United States while the people you support are busy palletizing their money off the backs of Americans.

Both sides are full of awful people. Both sides are full of people who have used others as stepping stones, who have used taxpayers as retribution for the transgressions of drunkards and addicts. Both sides are outmoded, undisciplined echo chambers of half-baked ideas.

[kingkilburn]

I recommend you take the time to do a little digging instead of running with a headline....

See my post above.

As far as I can see there's still no specific culprit here. You don't know what I have or haven't read and can't possibly infer that from what I said. Maybe cool off.


In other news
https://www.washingtonpost.com/us-policy/2021/01/22/biden-childtaxcredit-stimulus/

This would be life changing for millions of people. Universal basic income, education, and healthcare is the only way forward I see that isn't just spinning the tires.

[deolio]

Universal basic income, education, and healthcare is the only way forward I see that isn't just spinning the tires.

They better hide those parts inside a bill for military spending :hahano:

[Corbic]

You keep thinking that everyone who disagrees with you is a Democrat. Not true, has not been true, but like s14 and zombie, you consider yourself a persecuted minority, beaten on by big mean Dems.

Deolio? Not a Dem. Me? Not a Dem. Kilburn? Not a Dem.

Kilburn is fill blown communist. So there goes that argument. Additionally I saw all the praise and defense of Big Techs recent censorship and deplatforming. A Spade is a Spade.



And yet, you think we are. You think, like many conservatives do, that you're nailed to the cross as the salvation of the United States while the people you support are busy palletizing their money off the backs of Americans.

Call yourself whatever you want, doesn't change anything.

Both sides are full of awful people. Both sides are full of people who have used others as stepping stones, who have used taxpayers as retribution for the transgressions of drunkards and addicts. Both sides are outmoded, undisciplined echo chambers of half-baked ideas.

What are you, a Doomer now?

I'm sorry that you think you're some genius non-partisan fence sitter. The reality is there is a definitive right and wrong in this world. Thier is good and there is evil. It's not a spectrum of "oh there's all these view points and their all true or the truth is in the middle".

That's being a spineless indecisive person with no moral fiber or backbone that just floats along with what we feels good in the moment.

You want to harp on the capital issue. Notice how a good 70-90% on the right condemned it and are appalled. But again, notice how you don't have 70-90% of the left condemning and calling in the national guard to Portland or all the other examples of government buildings and properties being attacked by leftists.

As for your "oh I voted for the superior candidate that nobody ever heard of", you either voted for Trump or you didn't, which means you voted for Biden.

Are we taking bets until how long before we start bombing brown kids again?

I could build a city out of the irony.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210122/61e63a3d5da6fb1a345982e0c6d1dcc3.jpg

[kingkilburn]

If you think I'm a communist we should all be surprised you can even spell the word.

This us v them fantasy land shit you peddle in is precisely the shit that needs booted from public discourse. You can't coherently describe events or define terms. How the fuck could anyone take you seriously nevermind have any sort of fruitful discussion.

We need strong criminal libel laws for news and commentary. The well is poisoned.

[Corbic]

They better hide those parts inside a bill for military spending :hahano:(Directed at KingBum since I see you quoted him)

I love how people act like they are living in the worst point of human history, devoid of hope and opportunity and cry about "The American Dream is Dead!" yet ironic they are living in the peak of human civilization and are part of the top 3% of the fucking world.

This is what happens when life is too damn easy.

Ya'll wanna see income inequity? Have you seen the middle ages?

American Dream? Jesus, move the goal posts much?

1950 -

Married with two kids in your 20's

Served in the military for 2 years

Moved out of New York, Detroit or Chicago because you didn't want to live in a cramp dirty city apartment.

Bought a suburban house - 2 bedroom, no garage, 1 bath, ~ 1,000 square feet.

No A/C

Coal or Oil Furnace

No Cable TV or Internet
Had to save to buy a Radio or TV
Party Phone Lines that cost a fortune
Tiny refrigerator
You had a wash sink and clothes line

Owned 1 Car (no AC, 11mpg, no safety, AM Radio)

Today because you can't buy a BMW i8, a 2,000 SqFT Loft in Manhattan or afford a 4 Bed Room house in Pala Alto on your 30hr part time job with $130k in voluntary student debt you are somehow oppressed.

Get fucked.

Pack your shit up, move to Iowa and get a job cleaning septic tanks or roofing and you'll easily afford a home, car and a family.

Pro-Hint: 40hrs a week is the minimum suggested, not maximum.

[kingkilburn]

And no I'm not going point by point with you on any of this. You'll move the goal posts and change definitions on the fly until people move on from the point you never had ground to stand on in the first place.

[kingkilburn]

In your feelings before you even saw my reply. lol

Never change, Corbic. Obviously people need an example for comparison.

[ixfxi]

(Directed at KingBum since I see you quoted him)

I love how people act like they are living in the worst point of human history, devoid of hope and opportunity and cry about "The American Dream is Dead!" yet ironic they are living in the peak of human civilization and are part of the top 3% of the fucking world.

Pro-Hint: 40hrs a week is the minimum suggested, not maximum.

Couldnt agree with you more. The problem is many people need to MOVE in order to get back to reality. Real jobs, whatever that may be. Shit, I worked till 2AM two days ago and 12AM yesterday. 8hr days would be HEAVEN.

Why did I see video of people dressed in black breaking windows in Oregon. What are they upset about now? I love how they coordinate their wardrobes, I gotta get some black attire too. Looks so menacing.

On a more important note, people still paying rent? Isnt Biden supposed to make this virus disappear?

[kingkilburn]

30-40 people conspired to drive Congress into the tunnels and gas them. As yet unnamed coconspirators inside the capitol fed information to paramilitary individuals.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/legal-issues/conspiracy-oath-keeper-arrest-capitol-riot/2021/01/19/fb84877a-5a4f-11eb-8bcf-3877871c819d_story.html

This is exactly the sort of terrorism we fight abroad. Congrats to the Republican Party for driving us down this path.

[deolio]

I love how people act like they are living in the worst point of human history, devoid of hope and opportunity and cry about "The American Dream is Dead!" yet ironic they are living in the peak of human civilization and are part of the top 3% of the fucking world.

You're missing the point, which is that for a country in the top 3% (of what exactly idk) we could be doing a lot better.

Funny hearing you guys talk about how much you worked and then act like you aren't indoctrinated. "tHaT's bEcAusE We aReN't LAzY nEcK-bEarDeD IPA-dRinKiNg sNoWfLaKeS" Nah, it's because you buy into century old patriarchal bullshit. WORKING 65 HOURS A WEEK FOR THE CORPORATION AND GOING HOME TO MY SLAVE-WIFE WHO DOES ALL THE HOUSEKEEPING AND CHILD REARING REALLY MAKES ME FEEL LIKE A MAN!

Shit's old and corny.

[Corbic]

You're missing the point, which is that for a country in the top 3% (of what exactly idk)

Of the world. You realize there is 7 billion people out there. Billions live in absolute destitute making less then $800 a year. Most without clean water, any forum of Healthcare including aspirin and under murderous authoritarian regimes.
Not getting a PS5 and some LeBrons is the least of their concerns.

we could be doing a lot better.

But that would require people to work rather then bitch about statues and burn business while demanding the "rich" pay for their worthless degrees in garbage.....


Funny hearing you guys talk about how much you worked and then act like you aren't indoctrinated. "tHaT's bEcAusE We aReN't LAzY nEcK-bEarDeD IPA-dRinKiNg sNoWfLaKeS" Nah, it's because you buy into century old patriarchal bullshit. WORKING 65 HOURS A WEEK

Those are rookie numbers, gotta get that in the tipple digits. You think anyone worth a damn in history spend half their life watching TV and playing video games?

[QUOTE=deolio;6405640FOR THE CORPORATION AND GOING HOME TO MY SLAVE-WIFE WHO DOES ALL THE HOUSEKEEPING AND CHILD REARING REALLY MAKES ME FEEL LIKE A MAN!

Shit's old and corny.[/QUOTE]

Sounding a little bitter there. Why not start your own business and invest in yourself?

You don't need $100k in college debt to buy a $10k Tow Truck and start your own business. You don't need a trade school to get a Harbor Freight welder and learn to fab. You don't need tech school to learn to code.

Fuck dude, go lift some weights and learn to act. What one man can do, so can another.

https://youtu.be/u_ktRTWMX3M

[KA24DESOneThree]

Kilburn is fill blown communist. So there goes that argument. Additionally I saw all the praise and defense of Big Techs recent censorship and deplatforming. A Spade is a Spade.

What? Do you think Democrats are communists? thefuck.avi


Call yourself whatever you want, doesn't change anything.

Actually, it does- because words matter. Or would you say that the Constitution is just a bunch of stuff calling the country whatever the Framers wanted and that it didn't mean anything?

What are you, a Doomer now?

I'm sorry that you think you're some genius non-partisan fence sitter. The reality is there is a definitive right and wrong in this world. Thier is good and there is evil. It's not a spectrum of "oh there's all these view points and their all true or the truth is in the middle".

That's being a spineless indecisive person with no moral fiber or backbone that just floats along with what we feels good in the moment.

Yes, because your being conservative means that you fight for what is right. According to your narrow-ass mindset.

You want to harp on the capital issue. Notice how a good 70-90% on the right condemned it and are appalled. But again, notice how you don't have 70-90% of the left condemning and calling in the national guard to Portland or all the other examples of government buildings and properties being attacked by leftists.

See, this is where confirmation bias confirmation bias comes into play.

As for your "oh I voted for the superior candidate that nobody ever heard of", you either voted for Trump or you didn't, which means you voted for Biden.

Um, nope... is your attention span so short that you didn't read past the first two lines on your ballot?

Are we taking bets until how long before we start bombing brown kids again?

You mean like Donny boy? More than quadruple the drone strikes in Som_alia. Increased deaths in Yemen. He literally said, "The other thing with the terrorists is you have to take out their families, when you get these terrorists, you have to take out their families."

So did you care when it was Trump or do you care more now that the Bad Guy's in the Oval Office?

I could build a city out of the irony.

Nah dude, you're building a life out of irony.


I see you're still peddling the same "you can make a great living for yourself if you just pick up and move halfway across the country to some fucking boring flyover country podunk town and you can make enough shoveling shit at the local shitporium to buy a nice house in a nice part of a fucking boring flyover country podunk town and get yourself a nice girl and have yourself a nice family and you'll go to church and everything will be so American and enjoyable."

How is someone supposed to get to Iowa or Kansas and make their first month's rent with the $400 in savings they have? If they get a flat on their way, they'll arrive in Zeroelevationchangeville already in debt.

Still with your ooh-rah everyone needs to serve in the military bullshit too.

I keep telling myself I'm done with you and then you have to go and be closed-minded a little harder and all of a sudden I feel like Carradine and I tighten the belt around my neck a little tighter to feel that rush. One of these days I'ma get banned because I forgot my safe word and said no no things to you. Ya basic.

[Corbic]

I see you're still peddling the same "you can make a great living for yourself if you just pick up and move halfway across the country to some fucking boring flyover country podunk town and you can make enough shoveling shit at the local shitporium to buy a nice house in a nice part of a fucking boring flyover country podunk town and get yourself a nice girl and have yourself a nice family and you'll go to church and everything will be so American and enjoyable."



How is someone supposed to get to Iowa or Kansas and make their first month's rent with the $400 in savings they have? If they get a flat on their way, they'll arrive in Zeroelevationchangeville already in debt.



Still with your ooh-rah everyone needs to serve in the military bullshit too.



I keep telling myself I'm done with you and then you have to go and be closed-minded a little harder and all of a sudden I feel like Carradine and I tighten the belt around my neck a little tighter to feel that rush. One of these days I'ma get banned because I forgot my safe word and said no no things to you. Ya basic.Bruh.

People literally have been traveling across the world, not even knowing the language, with only the clothes on their back and $15 in their pocket to come here and make a living.

So sorry you're two stupid or lazy to figure out how to ditch LA with $1800/M rent for a roach motel to make it to Grand Haven Michigan to live in a mansion under the same budget.

So sorry your too good to actually learn a skill, trade or offer a service that's actually of value to community.


Broken record of excuses.

[Corbic]

Still with your ooh-rah everyone needs to serve in the military bullshit too.

Again, who the fuck told you life is easy and doesn't require sacrifice?

My statement of the American Dream and 2 years was by the mid 50's practically everyone served because of the draft.

If you are really jobless, trapped in Cali and have $400 and are under 30, fuck man, join the military.

If your not retarded you could save up $50k in cash, get out in 4 years with some marketable skills and move to somewhere with a good credit score and plenty of options.

Join the Navy, then go into the Merchant Marines making $100k a year working 8 months on 4 months off while seeing the world.


You call me narrow minded? *scoff*

[kingkilburn]

You guys are falling for his shit like you have been for years. Hook, line, and sinker.

You don't have to justify yourselves or entertain his beliefs, assuming he actually believes what he says.

[kingkilburn]

You've got him shaping the whole narrative, leaving you to react to whatever disingenuous bomb he drops next.


Rather than having flyover states with nothing to offer and handful of high cost cities we could have high speed internet as a right and an international high speed rail connecting all these places. Why shouldn't we create hundreds of thousands of jobs completely overhauling our stilted ww2 to cold war era infrastructure and society? As long as our deficit doesn't outpace inflation and GDP no cost is too high.

[ixfxi]

corbic is the voice of reason in a sea of stupidity here.

the state of california is FUCKED and beyond repair. if you think it makes sense to stay here, you guys are nuts. everyone is jumping ship for a reason, me included.

[deolio]

^Cool. You won't be missed.

Of the world. You realize there is 7 billion people out there. Billions live in absolute destitute making less then $800 a year...

You aren't listening to what I'm saying. I get it, we have it good and I agree, but why wouldn't you want it to be better?

The supposed shining city on the hill I see looks a lot better for everyone in it rather than just the elite who lucked, sucked, and fucked their way to the top.

But that would require people to work rather then bitch about statues and burn business while demanding the "rich" pay for their worthless degrees in garbage.....

A lot of people are working and tearing down the statues. Because people can be more than one thing.

I don't think there should be student debt forgiveness. However I do think education should be a lottttt fucking cheaper and the government could help with that. An investment in education (k-12, college, trade school, etc) is basically an investment in the economy. Having a better education helps regardless of you driving a tow truck or running a fortune 500.

Those are rookie numbers, gotta get that in the tipple digits. You think anyone worth a damn in history spend half their life watching TV and playing video games?

Is Roger Ebert worth a damn?

Sounding a little bitter there. Why not start your own business and invest in yourself?

I have 3 and I do well. Sup.

You don't need $100k in college debt to buy a $10k Tow Truck and start your own business. You don't need a trade school to get a Harbor Freight welder and learn to fab. You don't need tech school to learn to code.

Fuck dude, go lift some weights and learn to act. What one man can do, so can another.

Not everyone wants to break their backs, turn into an alcoholic, and die of lung cancer at 45.

Went into more debt bootstrapping my ass into the game after college than I did while in college. And while my degree has little to nothing to do with any of my businesses, most peoples do. A college degree is necessary for a fuckton of jobs. Do you really want to go see a "doctor" with no med school training? An accountant with no CPA? A VC with no MBA? What the fuck are you even talking about? What is your issue with college? Inferiority complex much?


Seeing things in black and white doesn't mean you're decisive, it just means you lack tact and the ability to understand complex situations.

[kingkilburn]

everyone is jumping ship for a reason, me included.

Everyone is jumping ship over income tax not realizing that the places they're going generate revenue through property taxes far higher than ours instead.

Good riddance.

[kingkilburn]

The investments in education are just that, investments. The smarter and more capable our society is the greater the return is. Investment in education and art is how American primacy was born. The feds dumped a near unimaginable amount of money after ww2. NASA and DARPA are basically still that only they're overwhelmingly staffed by individuals from countries investing more in education than we are.

[Corbic]

^Cool. You won't be missed.

This implies otherwise....

https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2020/08/17/california-proposes-168-income-tax-rate-plus-4-wealth-tax/?sh=55c3e0b519a6





You aren't listening to what I'm saying. I get it, we have it good and I agree, but why wouldn't you want it to be better?



The supposed shining city on the hill I see looks a lot better for everyone in it rather than just the elite who lucked, sucked, and fucked their way to the top.

You are part of that elite and rather then bring appreciative you complain the world owes you and is unfair....








A lot of people are working and tearing down the statues. Because people can be more than one thing.

Disagree. A lot of protests, riots and looting made possible because people have to much free time. Lots of them found collecting covid supplemental unemployment paid better then working.

If they actually had jobs, hobbies and families they'd find better ways to spend their time instead of trying to tear down a Columbus statue or get arrested while attempted to burn a federal court house...




I don't think there should be student debt forgiveness.

Good, we can agree on that.


However I do think education should be a lottttt fucking cheaper and the government could help with that.

Нет!!

Government can get fucked and go fuck off. Taxpayer Liable Student Loans is, was and continues to be the stupidest shit ever.

It is why costs have Exploded in the last 30 years. Universities have zero competition and charge whatever the max you can borrow.

The entire system needs gutted and rebuilt. You shouldn't force someone to spend $3k on a bullshit art class because they want a business degree. There is NOTHING you learn at university that you can't learn for free online.


An investment in education (k-12, college, trade school, etc) is basically an investment in the economy. Having a better education helps regardless of you driving a tow truck or running a fortune 500.

100% agree and that starts with competition and deregulation. Parents should get to send their kid to whatever school they want. Some public schools get over $13k a year per kid and local private schools that cost less the $6k kick the shit out of them.

We need 100% education reform. Break the unions and restructure the entire thing. Professional administrators should run facilities, kids should be grouped on ability and not age and by 16 everything should be career and society survival focused.

Students should be encouraged to excel and not held back to the lowest standard. End factory managed education styles. Boys and Girls should have unique approaches, we should have more diversity in our teaches - ie male teachers and people with backgrounds other than education.



Is Roger Ebert worth a damn?


Did he sit around watching Anime bitching about universal income or did he turn his passion into a career?





I have 3 and I do well. Sup.



Went into more debt bootstrapping my ass into the game after college than I did while in college. And while my degree has little to nothing to do with any of my businesses, most peoples do.

Huh, so you, an average guy managed to beat the odds and luck, sucked, or fucked his way to success?

Sounds like that tuition money would have been more useful investing in your business....





A college degree is necessary for a fuckton of jobs. Do you really want to go see a "doctor" with no med school training? An accountant with no CPA? A VC with no MBA? What the fuck are you even talking about? What is your issue with college? Inferiority complex much?


I actually have two undergraduates and an MBA.

My issue is it's a scam and an excuse. For 90% of the jobs that require a degree it's simply a "ticket punch".

Business school talk me jack shit about SAP, ERP management, government contracting, tooling fabrication, international program management, V-shaped Recoveries, 4ups, QDRP Reviews, export/import laws for Romania, etc.


Also all those jobs you listed are not the standard "Bernie!! Save us!! I can't pay off my Sociology Masters working at Whole Foods!!" crowd.

College has become this great dumping ground that everyone thinks you must go to or you are inferior and will never succeed in life. Additionally everyone must go no matter how dumb, lazy or poor. So millions go, millions rack up tons of debt with no actual goal or direction and come out stupider.

Not everyone wants to break their backs, turn into an alcoholic, and die of lung cancer at 45.


Now who's projecting. So owning your own business and trying to make a living without universal income or $20/min instantly makes you a busted chain smoking alcoholic?


Seeing things in black and white doesn't mean you're decisive, it just means you lack tact and the ability to understand complex situations.

If you want tact and understanding go see a priest. I need neither to highlight opportunities for someone to better themselves.

Just met a guy Saturday at the Pick N Pull. Spoke very poor English, obviously wasn't here legally and you know how he makes a living? He makes $200-$300 a day, a fucking day... 6 days a week - pulling parts for people.

Send him a text, he pulls it, you meet him, give him cash and then pay for the part. $100 for an engine or trans, $30 for alternative, $15 for control arm, etc.

Bruh, that's $5k a month off the books. I joked "damn what do you do with all that money!!"

"I have wife and 5 kids, all girls, what money! No money for me!!"

So don't cry to me about having only $400 in your pocket and the only answer is Government if your unwilling to put in the work, move, sacrifice and work towards a goal. Nobody owes you shit.

[kingkilburn]

Serious question. How?

https://twitter.com/verysleeby/status/1351304779021037570?s=09

[deolio]

You are part of that elite and rather then bring appreciative you complain the world owes you and is unfair....

Talking to me or to "liberals?" Because that's the exact opposite of what I'm complaining about. I think everyone should have access to the resources and opportunities I had growing up. Not everyone is meant to go to college and become a surgeon, but it'd be nice if everyone had the option to. We'd end up with a much more skilled workforce and bump up that rookie 3% to a top .5%! ARE YA WITH ME товарищ

Disagree. A lot of protests, riots and looting made possible because people have to much free time. Lots of them found collecting covid supplemental unemployment paid better then working.

If they actually had jobs, hobbies and families they'd find better ways to spend their time instead of trying to tear down a Columbus statue or get arrested while attempted to burn a federal court house...

More black and white rhetoric blah blah blah show me some stats

Government can get fucked and go fuck off. Taxpayer Liable Student Loans is, was and continues to be the stupidest shit ever.

It is why costs have Exploded in the last 30 years. Universities have zero competition and charge whatever the max you can borrow.

The entire system needs gutted and rebuilt. You shouldn't force someone to spend $3k on a bullshit art class because they want a business degree. There is NOTHING you learn at university that you can't learn for free online.

I wasn't suggesting it to be paid by the tax payers, but by gutting and rebuilding as you said. Just for public colleges. Say, if prices were more comparable to city and junior college tuition. Private can do whatever the fuck they want.

Did he sit around watching Anime bitching about universal income or did he turn his passion into a career?

The way streaming is these days, if he were a 20-something, maybe he could do both :rofl:

Huh, so you, an average guy managed to beat the odds and luck, sucked, or fucked his way to success?

Sounds like that tuition money would have been more useful investing in your business....

Luck and a little suck seemed to do the trick :hey:

Doing "well" and being at the top are quite different, but I appreciate the vote of confidence.

Had I not gone to college, I wouldn't have accidentally developed the skills that built the foundation for my career. And that's not to say I couldn't have made a career out of my degree.

My issue is it's a scam and an excuse. For 90% of the jobs that require a degree it's simply a "ticket punch".

True, I understand that, but also, unless you're given the opportunity to display your qualifications, that position that requires a degree is gonna chuck your resume.

Not everyone is or should be an entrepreneur.

Now who's projecting. So owning your own business and trying to make a living without universal income or $20/min instantly makes you a busted chain smoking alcoholic?

It's hyperbole. Just saying it's not a one size fits all situation.

If you want tact and understanding go see a priest. I need neither to highlight opportunities for someone to better themselves.

You're right, you don't need it for those purposes, but you do if you want to have a constructive conversation and a greater understanding of the world you live in.

[ronmcdon]

totally agreed college is pretty much a scam.

with most degrees a 4yr college is more or less is high school part 2. not unlike high school one for the most part memorizes a bunch of material, bullshits some tedious paper, passes the class, moves on. not much of practical value is really learned. a lot of time is expended, money is paid for student loans and $300 textbooks.

only real value is one gets to progress to a master's program of choice. even with a master's program I think the value of the education itself is questionable. it certainly was for 90% of the masters level classes in my profession. much of the real education I think occurs in work experience in whatever industry you're in and specialized training one gets post master's program.

wish one could at the very least opt out of a 4 years bachelors program and go right to a master's program like one could for trade school. aside from being a money grab where the gatekeepers profiteer, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. making it free is not really the answer because someone still has to pay for it.

[ixfxi]

Just met a guy Saturday at the Pick N Pull. Spoke very poor English, obviously wasn't here legally and you know how he makes a living? He makes $200-$300 a day, a fucking day... 6 days a week - pulling parts for people.

Send him a text, he pulls it, you meet him, give him cash and then pay for the part. $100 for an engine or trans, $30 for alternative, $15 for control arm, etc.

Bruh, that's $5k a month off the books. I joked "damn what do you do with all that money!!"

"I have wife and 5 kids, all girls, what money! No money for me!!"

So don't cry to me about having only $400 in your pocket and the only answer is Government if your unwilling to put in the work, move, sacrifice and work towards a goal. Nobody owes you shit.

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

BUT THERE ARE NO JOBS OUT THERE! Killburn from fuck-off-Fresno is crying saying that inflation and jobs at wallmart arent good enough!!!!

Yet, there are folks like the one you posted who know how to HUSTLE and dont mind getting their hands dirty. Thats the difference. There are some lazy Americans out there.

[kingkilburn]

So you like paying taxes for food stamp, medical care, housing assistance, etc for underpaid walmart employees. You would rather put money directly into pockets of walmart executive staff and shareholders than see those trying to earn a living get it.

Those boots must taste awful good.

[dizzariot]

This is exactly the sort of terrorism we fight abroad. Congrats to the Republican Party for driving us down this path.




This us v them fantasy land shit you peddle in is precisely the shit that needs booted from public discourse.

We need strong criminal libel laws for news and commentary. The well is poisoned.

...bruh. You and I were clearly making headway. Take it as you will, but dude you and I just did this dance and you're already contradicting again. You are perpetuating the 'sides' and you are poisoning the well.


You're missing the point, which is that for a country in the top 3% (of what exactly idk) we could be doing a lot better.

Funny hearing you guys talk about how much you worked and then act like you aren't indoctrinated. "tHaT's bEcAusE We aReN't LAzY nEcK-bEarDeD IPA-dRinKiNg sNoWfLaKeS" Nah, it's because you buy into century old patriarchal bullshit. WORKING 65 HOURS A WEEK FOR THE CORPORATION AND GOING HOME TO MY SLAVE-WIFE WHO DOES ALL THE HOUSEKEEPING AND CHILD REARING REALLY MAKES ME FEEL LIKE A MAN!

Shit's old and corny.

Hey man, I'm not talking shit but I'm genuinely asking: are you married, or living with a significant other and have kids?

I'm about to have my first kid and my wife will be at home for the foreseeable future. She worked up until October of last year. Is she gonna keep the house clean because she's my slave? No. She's going to do it because she's my teammate and I'd do the same for her if she was working and I was at home...because I got pregnant...or...you get it. In this instance, falling into the gender roles (man go earn, woman stay home) was unavoidable due to only one of us having the hardware to birth and feed an infant...but who knows? Maybe I get an even better job one day and my wife can stay home and take care of my son and the house. Maybe (once my son is old enough) my wife gets a baller job and I stay home and clean the house and take care of our son. Would I be the slave, then?

Placing a value on hard work does not mean you are blindly indoctrinated. There is money on the proverbial table and there are people who will plot, plan, and figure out how to get it even if it means 'selling out to the man' and working for some corporation. To say we(?) do it because we're indoctrinated is a little short-sighted. We(?) do it because the money, unfortunately, is freedom to roam and provide yourself with some sort of security. If you go to ANY type of job where you are not your own boss, you are indoctrinated to earn. You can be a rat in a maze, the rat that's aware they're in the maze, or the rat that's not in the maze but still has to do something for the cheddar. Pun intended.

I edited my long-ass post multiple times just to end up here: You guys say 'typical Corbic and ixfxi' when they talk about hard work. Then Corbic and ixfxi say 'typical kids' when you talk about how the system is fucked and we're all indoctrinated. The latter have played the game enough to get ahead but where are you currently typing from? A small apartment, a house with roommates, or your parents' home? Do you feel safe parking your SChassis outside where you live? Is that your only car? (Generalizations work both ways.)

[kingkilburn]

Unless you are a voting member of the RNC or hold public under their banner you aren't a Republican. I don't know how many times and ways I need to say that.

Here, I'll say it again for you. Fuck the private political organizations that have coopted our elections and stolen our government from us.


The fantasy land us v them is the made up liberal/progressive/leftist v conservative/traditionalist. Your refusal to grasp the that is on you and your insistence that every disagreement be a fight is on you.

[kingkilburn]

Honestly, it's the constant insistence that everything must be personal and a big fucking fight that makes me want to fire bomb everything. You all have to be such miserable fucking assholes about every goddam detail that you can't even have a conversation.

No one wants to take your stupid empire of dirt from you. No one wants to force your pregnant wife to work. No one is demanding $100k to wash dishes. The existence of a world beyond your direct control is not a fucking threat to your way of life!


Every political anything here boils down to the same one fucking thing every time. Corbic and ixfxi think these youngins with electricity and in door plumbing have it too easy. Good for them. You agree? Good for you. A literal goddam century of statistical analysis says otherwise. America is dying a slow death of wealth inequality and austerity while hostile rivals work to surpass us and are s u c c e e d i n g. How long do we have to entertain old men yelling about soft youth because we're on a ticking clock here.

[dizzariot]

Unless you are a voting member of the RNC or hold public under their banner you aren't a Republican. I don't know how many times and ways I need to say that.

Here, I'll say it again for you. Fuck the private political organizations that have coopted our elections and stolen our government from us.


The fantasy land us v them is the made up liberal/progressive/leftist v conservative/traditionalist. Your refusal to grasp the that is on you and your insistence that every disagreement be a fight is on you.

Dude I agree here but your language used here is either failing you or you're being a hypocrite. I'm just pointing it out. I think I'm doing it in a reasonable way. I can do that without wanting to start an argument. Would you agree your WRITTEN WORDS here could be construed as contradicting?

Honestly, it's the constant insistence that everything must be personal and a big fucking fight that makes me want to fire bomb everything. You all have to be such miserable fucking assholes about every goddam detail that you can't even have a conversation.

No one wants to take your stupid empire of dirt from you. No one wants to force your pregnant wife to work. No one is demanding $100k to wash dishes. The existence of a world beyond your direct control is not a fucking threat to your way of life!


Every political anything here boils down to the same one fucking thing every time. Corbic and ixfxi think these youngins with electricity and in door plumbing have it too easy. Good for them. You agree? Good for you. A literal goddam century of statistical analysis says otherwise. America is dying a slow death of wealth inequality and austerity while hostile rivals work to surpass us and are s u c c e e d i n g. How long do we have to entertain old men yelling about soft youth because we're on a ticking clock here.

Again, I pretty sure at least my tone was conversational. You're making this a fight rather than a discussion. That's why I have to add all these disclaimers to what I'm saying...you can't hear my tone of voice. We aren't exactly changing the world on Zilvia.

Who is succeeding and surpassing us? If 'they' succeed choose to go to war, our 'soft people' will fight it. I was in an 'easy' branch and I can tell you that none of us were ready for shit to go down and half us were not even qualified to operate the gear we had. People were complaining of being overworked and under-appreciated: AKA they were in the military. These are the people that I'm worried about. Their work ethic and entitlement are a symptom of the times.

I'd like to know how Russia and China are lightyears ahead of us in terms of wealth inequality...

OT:

https://coffeeordie.com/national-guard-parking-garage/

Coffeeordie is going the way of sensationalist news, but you can trust that they'll blindly defend the military. Planners probably didn't think this thing through and it led to a shitty set up for the people that deployed. It sounds like the dude that ordered them out of the parking garage was acting of his own accord without any real order to remove the troops...but that didn't make for good news headlines.

Also, from firsthand experience, the military is not doing the best job of handling COVID and this proves it.

[dizzariot]

Double Post,

[ixfxi]

I edited my long-ass post multiple times just to end up here: You guys say 'typical Corbic and ixfxi' when they talk about hard work. Then Corbic and ixfxi say 'typical kids' when you talk about how the system is fucked and we're all indoctrinated. The latter have played the game enough to get ahead but where are you currently typing from? A small apartment, a house with roommates, or your parents' home? Do you feel safe parking your SChassis outside where you live? Is that your only car? (Generalizations work both ways.)

certain people speak from knowledge and experience, and others talk out of their ass. you see, you cant have a conversation with someone people. the funny thing about politics is that anyone can talk about it, speak their opinions. the difference is, who speaks from facts and who spews bullshit. we're not all on the same level. some are on super mario world 1, and others have looped the game numerous times.

if there is anything i would like to say, is that i think its a damn shame so many people cant speak their opinions without getting into these massive arguments. but with killburn on this forum, i think he would contract and argue with himself. oh well, its good comedy i guess

[kingkilburn]

You have decided I'm the bad guy and decided I mean anything but what I have clearly stated. The only clarification you seek is my capitulation and that is not happening. This isn't a misunderstanding. If I don't sound inviting in entertaining this line of discussion further that's why.

[dizzariot]

You have decided I'm the bad guy and decided I mean anything but what I have clearly stated. The only clarification you seek is my capitulation and that is not happening. This isn't a misunderstanding. If I don't sound inviting in entertaining this line of discussion further that's why.

Dude I'm really not. You words, as written, are the only thing I'm trying to make sense of. I don't know you outside of this forum but the typed words here are contradicting and I'm asking if you notice it or not, or if it's intended, or if it's simple a mix-up due to trying to respond in a hurry.

There is no 'gotcha' because at the end of the day I'm on the other side of the world doing fuck all. If you don't wanna talk, then don't. It's really fine, man. Your circumstances and beliefs only matter to me if we can find some commonality and agree to disagree. I really only care to make sense of what you're saying so I can understand. I'm pointing out contradictions to better understand what's up. If you don't want to answer me, then that's cool.

[kingkilburn]

You see a contradiction because you don't understand what I'm saying and you chose to attack rather than trying to find that understanding.

I keep saying that the DNC and RNC are private organizations. Citizen voters are not party members and have effectively zero say in their internal workings and party platforms. The wealthy and powerful do this dance with these two private organizations for the strange currency that is our votes and public perceptions. We Are Not Party Members. If ever you see me mention Democrats and Republicans I am not talking about citizen voters, I'm talking about public officials and party members.

If you want an us v them it is us the citizen voters v them the ultra wealthy and politically powerful. They float these bullshit narratives in the media and get people into mass hysteria. Team blue is dancing one way, team red dances the other, and you end up with everyone in hysterics over the dumbest shit while the Senate stabs us in the back with unanimous consent.
The wrinkle here is that the dance team red has been doing isn't just distracting it's dangerous.

The distraction that is Corbic and ixfxi is beyond frustrating because they are parroting old irrational talking points and everyone jumps right back into the hysterics. We never get to policy or even actual politics.

[kingkilburn]

As proof that both parties are full of shit watch the Democrats preach unity and moderation now that they've got full control. They'll demonize the Justice Democrats like they used to the Freedom Caucus.

And they'll lose the midterms, again, and we'll be back to status quo.

[Corbic]

Meanwhile.... Hotep Jesus looking to get the Twitter perma ban. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210125/82a8b51f7a45842acd6c485ce32dba6c.jpg

[deolio]

Hey man, I'm not talking shit but I'm genuinely asking: are you married, or living with a significant other and have kids

I don't. Again, hyperbole. I don't know how to have serious conversations without exaggerating or being sarcastic. Probably why these discussions never go anywhere :rofl:

Congratulations on the baby! (No sarcasm here)

Placing a value on hard work does not mean you are blindly indoctrinated.

I just don't see working a lot of hours equating to working hard. I'm sure everyone knows someone who could turn sharpening a pencil into a 6 hour ordeal. If you, however, managed to save 5 kids and a nun from a burning orphanage in that 6 hour period, THAT is something to be proud of. Producing people who take pride in their work and are more than happy to work extended amounts of time is exactly the kind of worker our education system and society is structured to build. This is where you might insert the term "sheeple." Gotta achieve success so you can buy nice things and in turn feed the machine.

I'm not saying don't work hard or work for long hours if that's what floats your boat, but realize we're all indoctrinated from birth. Being aware of it helps put priorities in perspective.

(Generalizations work both ways.)

Indeed. Easier to generalize than try to understand different perspectives. Corbic's replies the past page or whatever actually helped me get a better understanding of his thinking. It was a nice break from the memes :keke:

[Corbic]

We'll be seeing $5/gallon again real soon in America and prolly $10/gallon in California.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210125/dde2a131a4afc22c1af97d68976169c1.jpg

[KA24DESOneThree]

You see a contradiction because you don't understand what I'm saying and you chose to attack rather than trying to find that understanding.

I keep saying that the DNC and RNC are private organizations. Citizen voters are not party members and have effectively zero say in their internal workings and party platforms. The wealthy and powerful do this dance with these two private organizations for the strange currency that is our votes and public perceptions. We Are Not Party Members. If ever you see me mention Democrats and Republicans I am not talking about citizen voters, I'm talking about public officials and party members.

If you want an us v them it is us the citizen voters v them the ultra wealthy and politically powerful. They float these bullshit narratives in the media and get people into mass hysteria. Team blue is dancing one way, team red dances the other, and you end up with everyone in hysterics over the dumbest shit while the Senate stabs us in the back with unanimous consent.
The wrinkle here is that the dance team red has been doing isn't just distracting it's dangerous.

The distraction that is Corbic and ixfxi is beyond frustrating because they are parroting old irrational talking points and everyone jumps right back into the hysterics. We never get to policy or even actual politics.

This.

Screw the parties; they're leeches set upon us by the wealthy and powerful.

Screw the parties, screw the large corps, and screw the alphabet agencies. Screw Joe Rogan, Elon Musk, Zuckerberg, Ellis, and the rest of them. Screw every news network.

[Corbic]

This.

Screw the parties; they're leeches set upon us by the wealthy and powerful.

Screw the parties, screw the large corps, and screw the alphabet agencies. Screw Joe Rogan, Elon Musk, Zuckerberg, Ellis, and the rest of them. Screw every news network.And yet you apposed Trump at every step... The only political threat to both parties and corporations.

Fucking Ironic.

[kingkilburn]

Oligarchy or kleptocratic dictatorship... That's not even close to a hard question to answer.

[kingkilburn]

Mcconnell has given up his attempts at blocking the removal of the filibuster. This is a pretty big deal.

[ixfxi]

And yet you apposed Trump at every step... The only political threat to both parties and corporations.

Oligarchy or kleptocratic dictatorship... That's not even close to a hard question to answer.

Oligarchy, as in the Bush or Clintons.

Dictatorship, as in a newly elected president with no fanfare, only troops to protect the inauguration.

Trumps dictatorship? As in not being penalized for NOT having health insurance? No wars started. Middle east peace plan.

The only thing kleptocratic were the 2020 election results for a corpose who didnt campaign

[KA24DESOneThree]

And yet you apposed Trump at every step... The only political threat to both parties and corporations.

Fucking Ironic.

Six of Heaven's Gate in one hand, a half dozen of Jim Jones in the other. Y'all are a suicide cult on a longer timeline.

[kingkilburn]

We're just going to pretend Trump didn't try to kill Congress and the Vice President. Flynn's brother in the army totally didn't involve himself preventing national guard deployment at the Capitol at a pivotal time. Can't forget Trump trying to push out everyone at the top of the DOJ in the final days as he hunted down an acting ag willing to hand him the election.

[kingkilburn]

$15/hour by 2025 is too late and too little. Leave it to Democrats to gain overwhelming power and use it drop crumbs from on high.

[feito]

leftists on a car forum focused on high power gasoline engines. Oh the irony. Hey mods, can we get an EV forum section for all of them? I got a real bad feeling about this presidency and ICE. Not good for our hobby and passion, at all....

[kingkilburn]

A whole as non sequitur

https://media1.tenor.com/images/378a40831d1001c96af434aa24b6dd97/tenor.gif?itemid=5850917

[ixfxi]

killburn, do you even have a job? how do you have so much time to post? dude has to live at home


leftists on a car forum focused on high power gasoline engines. Oh the irony. Hey mods, can we get an EV forum section for all of them? I got a real bad feeling about this presidency and ICE. Not good for our hobby and passion, at all....

i agree........... first month and he's kickin the pipeline (and the jobs) to the curb. real smart, right?

[kingkilburn]

https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/019/304/old.jpg

[KA24DESOneThree]

leftists on a car forum focused on high power gasoline engines. Oh the irony. Hey mods, can we get an EV forum section for all of them? I got a real bad feeling about this presidency and ICE. Not good for our hobby and passion, at all....

You're thinking micro, when climate change is macro.

Bulk carriers put out appx 440mm metric tons of CO2/year. Container ships put out 140mm metric tons of CO2/year.

My truck, if driven the US average of 13,500 miles, puts out 5.25 metric tons of CO2/year using the number of 243g/km given by the manufacturer in Australia.

Bulk carriers put out appx 83.8 million times my truck's emissions, and container ships put out 26.6 million times my trucks' emissions. There are approximately 273.6 million cars in the United States.

The total output of all the cars in the US, assuming the average is equal to that of my diesel Colorado, is equal to 10.29 container ships or 3.26 bulk carriers.

So, I guess, our cars are pretty small potatoes in the overall scheme of things. The reason why they're a hill politicians are willing to die on is multitudinous, but it's easier to blame cars and force emissions regulations or widespread sale of electric cars than it is to better our transportation infrastructure or revamp cities to better work without cars while increasing population density without increasing crime and decreasing quality of life.

This is not taking into account the human cost of particulate emissions and noxious gases, by the way- its only purpose is to point out how myopic your view is.

TL;DR: Just because Reddit told you PLTR is where the tendies are doesn't mean you've done your due diligence.

[Corbic]

The total output of all the cars in the US, assuming the average is equal to that of my diesel Colorado, is equal to 10.29 container ships or 3.26 bulk carriers.



So, I guess, our cars are pretty small potatoes in the overall scheme of things. The reason why they're a hill politicians are willing to die on is multitudinous, but it's easier to blame cars and force emissions regulations or widespread sale of electric cars than it is to better our transportation infrastructure or revamp cities to better work without cars while increasing population density without increasing crime and decreasing quality of life.

Goes on rant finally acknowledging cars are not the source of "global climate change" but then goes back to focusing on eliminating cars as the solution.

For fuck sake.

World's largest 12 container ships make more pollution then all the cars in the world.

Eliminate 12 fucking container ships we'll have an immediate positive global impact - unlike mass transit systems or electric cars which are only moving the problem put of sight.

Going electric just means further expanding modern global slavery, enriching despots and dictator and off shoring our pollution.

So again, - you acknowledge global shipping is an issue, but then apposed the only guy in 40 years to do fuck about out sourcing labor and production to the modern slave fields of China and trying to reduce the amount of shipping bringing garbage into the US.

Hey Killbum, if you were a freeman up in New York in 1850, would you wear a cotton shirt made by a slave down in Alabama?

If you were a free German in 1943, would buy a gold watch stolen from a dead jew?

So why you rocking those Nike's?

Meanwhile, the virtue signaling twats are hard at it again....

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/31/business/costco-coconut-milk-monkey-labor-trnd/index.html

[Corbic]

https://youtu.be/5e_LrAILInk


Good work Team Biden. Screw over those dirty Native Americans, Blue Collar Americans and the Unions.

[kingkilburn]

What do you mean "finally"? Personal cars have always been the pollution scapegoat. Here in the Central Valley our air quality issues are entirely based on dumbass industrial ag practices the farmers refuse to move on from, just like the water issues.


P.S.
I have never worn nikes. Nice racism though.

[ixfxi]

president killburn is double bagging and double masking folks

[Future240]

It is amazing how political the pipeline has become.

I spent some time trying to find out if it is a good or bad thing, and honestly it is hard to tell with the spin from sources on it.

Against it
https://www.nrdc.org/stories/what-keystone-pipeline


Appearing to be non bias

Old source appears unbias but info is outdated, intereesting though it brought up Texas property rights. That is something I had not seen before. Some parts of the pipeline would require people to give up their property
https://stateimpact.npr.org/texas/tag/keystone-xl-pipeline/
Some Texans oppose the pipeline. One of them is farmer Julia Trigg Crawford. After Crawford declined to sign an agreement with the company, they used eminent domain to gain access to her land. She responded by filing a temporary restraining order.


Regarding the jobs this article suggest most of the jobs would be temporary and after its construction there would be 35-50 permanent jobs to maintain the pipeline
https://www.statesman.com/story/news/politics/politifact/2021/01/22/keystone-pipeline-jobs-lost-joe-biden-executive-order-cancel-fact-check/6673822002/

"When combined with additional 2021 contracts to be announced later, the total number of American union workers constructing Keystone XL in 2021 will exceed 8,000 and $900 million in gross wages," the release said. "In total, Keystone XL is expected to employ more than 11,000 Americans in 2021, creating more than $1.6 billion in gross wages."

That’s close to what the State Department found in its 2014 report.

In the report, the agency wrote that 10,400 estimated positions would be for seasonal construction work lasting four to eight-month periods. Since the State Department defines "job" as "one position that is filled for 1 year," that would equate to approximately 3,900 jobs over a two-year period.

In short: Most of the estimated jobs were temporary.

The State Department forecasted that no more than 50 jobs, some of which could be located in Canada, would be required to maintain the pipeline. Thirty-five of them would be permanent, while 15 would be temporary contractors.


For the pipeline, though noted using data from the the Keystone xl website
https://www.foxbusiness.com/economy/american-jobs-biden-keystone-xl-pipeline
According to the Keystone XL website, the project, initially proposed more than a decade ago, would sustain about 11,000 U.S. jobs in 2021 – including 8,000 union jobs – and generate $1.6 billion in gross wages.

For it
Another one, saying how biden is hurting unions as people had jobs lined up that he killed
https://redstate.com/jenniferoo/2021/01/22/pipefitters-union-gets-shafted-with-bidens-keystone-pipeline-cancellation-n314357


Interesting article that shows people who are both for and against it
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-55816229

I have spent quite some time reading on this. My conclusion is there is no perfect answer.

Conservatives love to scream jobs jobs jobs, but ignore the fact that it affects farmers and their land rights too. Not to many native american land, the potential for pollution (not climate) is a real concern for people. Especially when the pipe inevitable leaks.

Lefties love to scream climate despite the fact it is report the pipeline would not have that great of an impact on climate. lefties also ignore the fact that if even temporary tends of thousands of people are now out of work. a job for a year or two is still a job.

My personal opinion after researching on it. I think we should build it.

However, perhaps we can try an reroute it a bit, to reduce the amount of land that has to be taken from farmers or greatly compensate them if that cannot be done. Meetings should be held with the native americans who have concerns about their land and special teams put in place to put extra care and maintenance in those particular sections of the pipe line which could lead to more job increases for the needed security.

[Future240]

Lulz

I remember when conservative news was defending hydroxy and no one had a word to say when Trump still caught the shit.

https://www.readfrontier.org/stories/oklahoma-trying-to-return-its-2m-stockpile-of-hydroxychloroquine/
The state purchased the hydroxychloroquine stockpile in early April, days after Trump began to tout it as a treatment. While many acknowledged at the time that reports of the drug’s effectiveness were purely anecdotal, Trump said at a briefing in March, “What do we have to lose? I feel very good about it.”

Health officials nationwide immediately began to caution people against using the drug, throwing water on the idea that it could cure a coronavirus infection and cautioning that it could have serious side effects, including irregular heart rhythms and even the possibility of death. The drug was ultimately discredited as a treatment option and the National Institute of Health released a report in November that the drug had “no clinical benefit to hospitalized patients

[Future240]

https://www.vice.com/en/article/y3gedm/marjorie-taylor-greene-believes-in-frazzledrip-qanons-wildest-conspiracy-theory

This is one of those articles I instantly raised an eyebrow to as it is vice, however, upon reading it, they literally have the tweets embedded. Her only defense was "it was my team". Sure, sure, classic shaggy defense. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaggy_defense)

[Corbic]

Lulz

I remember when conservative news was defending hydroxy and no one had a word to say when Trump still caught the shit.

https://www.readfrontier.org/stories/oklahoma-trying-to-return-its-2m-stockpile-of-hydroxychloroquine/Not sure what the problem is. NYC was stockpiling CPAPs...

Trump got Covid and was back to work in like 3 days.


Should have reiterated thr fact that this is a bullshit pandemic. +70 year old unhealthy overweight dude with high stress job gets covid, recovers just fine.

In other news, Biden has already killed 23,000 Americans as I post this. Clearly he doesn't care about all the Americans his administration has killed.

https://freebeacon.com/coronavirus/biden-covid-death-tracker/