"Pointless if you can't control it"

[Zohan]

So I hear a lot of people saying how different it is driving a 230hp car vs. 500+ hp car and I would not doubt it, especially in 90's cars with very limited traction control technology. So if someone could go a little in depth as to what things someone should have in mind before going all out on a motor. I've been in high hp cars, but new ones like GTR's, ferrari's, etc. and I know they torque steer sometimes, even mine does a little bit, really want a ride in a built 2jz 240 :)
thanks!!

[Drift_FX]

long story short because i need to get some sleep....

build the suspension/safety of the car first, then add power as your driving skill increases.... thats the correct way to do it.....

[RoXiE.S14]

fast goes BWAAAAAAAAAAAA. Slow goes "nnnyeeeeeeeEEEE!!!"

[Zohan]

So if I'm on the right page, with higher speeds, your movements and reactions need to be a lot more precise since high hp aren't as forgiving to mistakes?

[PeaceOnesxWai]

Compensate power with wider wheels, stickier tires, more downforce.

[DJ-of-E]

long story short because i need to get some sleep....

build the suspension/safety of the car first, then add power as your driving skill increases.... thats the correct way to do it.....

go pure stock S13 first. If you could do buttonwillow CW13 faster than 2:25 ( (or 1:38 on Streets of Willow CCW) on hankook RS3 tires or equivalent, then build suspension and safety. If faster than 2:05 (1:30 on Streets of Willow) CCW with same tires, then build power.

If any point in time you can't reach those times under those specifications, you suck at car control and don't bother with "MOAR POWAAA1!!!"

Adding more power keeps the learning curve for car control even steeper. Not only that, you have to fine tune your suspension again to handle the power properly at "what point" you want the suspension to act.

Now adding more power adds another level of difficulty as we are "greedy" for more power and not learn how to use it properly. Take it to an SCCA sanctioned auto-x and I can beat your 2JZ 240SX with a stock miata with 20 year old stock suspension.

[MrMigs]

The others already went into detail with their recommendations on tuning stages building up to the point of going high-power, so I want to focus on something else.

The other thing is how you plan to enjoy the car and whether or not you really think that 500hp is going to make your car a lot more fun for you long-term or if it's just going to be a passing feeling. It may or may not be worth doing all that work. And I only say this because it sounds like you're looking for opinions to help you decide whether or not you want to have a high-power 240.

[ZX88]

you dont need that kind of power in a 240. around 300 is perfect.

[MrMigs]

you dont need that kind of power in a 240. around 300 is perfect.

Again it depends on what the dude expects out of his car. Even 300 might be more than he needs for what he wants to do (whatever that is). Or it may not be enough.

[kojiki88]

Im at 305 rwhp and I am already bored/used to that kind of power. I'm shooting for around 450 on the next phase of upgrades.

[zooopreme]

Everybody wants to jump into a JZ or a V8 without even trying to drift their KA or stock SR. People complain about the lack of power because they lack a lot of different skills in the basics of controlling a car. Kinda like owning a fancy bike without knowing how to ride it correctly.

300hp in my honest opinion is more than enough for a street driven car/weekend track car. Anything above that use, you'll need to prioritize things like your suspension set up/chassis rigidity/wheel +tire rather than power. While power is great, I can see a more advanced and skilled driver taking your 300hp car and driving it better than these power hungry scrubs just on skill alone.

People typically forget that a lot of professionals started out with less hp and were still able to make something of themselves. But no...it's always shortcuts to get more internet credits from other dweebs.

[InsTanCeZ]

It actually takes a lot more skill to drive higher horsepower cars because you will need very good throttle control to prevent the car from over steering when exiting corners. If you look at some of the crazy built time attack S-chassis over in Japan lapping on courses like Tsukuba, they have about 500-650hp built SR20DETs, but they have fully adjustable suspension arms, custom built racing dampers, and a fully seam welded chassis with roll cages. They also run as much tire as they can. 295/30r18 front and rear is common, and they use s-tires such as Advan A048s so they can get as much grip as possible. A lot of work goes into aerodynamics too. They usually have front splitters and big rear wings. That's just to give you an idea of how much work goes into making a 500hp car controllable on the track.

[BoostSlideWayz]

Like someone mentioned everyone just wants to skip actually trying to build an awesome KA and just swap in an SR,RB,2jz etc. If you build an engine correctly you can squeeze some awesome power out of it.

My ka24e-t isnt massive power, but its fun and thats all that matters to me.


But yeah i think it really depends on the type of driving you plan on doing. If you want a car that handles awesome in tight corners you wont even need that much power. Just good gear ratios and proper suspension.

For my supra project im hoping just in the 340 WHP range and ill be happy. For the most part i dont plan on serious driving with it. Its literally just a freeway car thats only driven once maybe 3 times a month tops.

i know for me, 450 WHP in a supra was alot more than i imagined. My first ride in one was very raw and hard hitting power. And thats when i decided not even i needed that much power.

Makes me laugh at myself when i was 18 wanting a 700 HP supra with no experience even riding in a boosted car.

[InsTanCeZ]

I'm assuming you're talking about building a grassroots drift car or grip car. Either way I would worry about making the engine more reliable rather than making more power. Somewhere around 300hp is usually enough. If I was building an S-chassis, I wouldn't want more than about 400hp if I was driving it on the street. Anywhere past that and you usually end up running into issues with reliability, at least with an SR20DET. More than 400hp would be tough to control with most street cars anyways. You have to realize that big horsepower street cars like GTRs, Corvettes, and what not are engineered from the factory to drive safely on the streets with the amount of power they have, so that's a whole other story and you can't really compare a car from the 90s, that was designed to use around 220hp from the factory, to cars like that.

[BoostSlideWayz]

For me my ka is fine in the 200 HP range, dont really need any more. Ive built the engine with quality parts so it should be fine. its been a couple years since the build.

for the supra i wouldnt compare it to cars like those. i just want a car thats fun and more power than 180 whp for stock. gets boring with how heavy the car is.

[zeitgeist]

With 360whp in my S14 I could take it upwards of 150mph but im scared to with only 225 and 255 sized tires to go past even 100mph. I could but no need to risk it. Needs more grip and bracing for me to feel confident in the car.
My S13 on the otherhand has 130whp but with the bracing and proper sized tires I feel I could confidently take this thing to 150mph and feel stable

Call me a crappy driver or whatever, but why risk losing your life without a good setup?

[EsChassisLove]

Fucking tires, LSD and suspension.

No baby 225 bullshit. Full rubber 9.5 all around or wider on sticky 285s or bigger.

I have a 500hp SR20. It breaks loose at 60mph in 2nd gear. But I have meaty, sticky tires and great brakes to control it. I do just fine.

Lots of fun.

[lude4life13]

With 360whp in my S14 I could take it upwards of 150mph but im scared to with only 225 and 255 sized tires to go past even 100mph. I could but no need to risk it. Needs more grip and bracing for me to feel confident in the car.
My S13 on the otherhand has 130whp but with the bracing and proper sized tires I feel I could confidently take this thing to 150mph and feel stable

Call me a crappy driver or whatever, but why risk losing your life without a good setup?

Not being able to go past 100mph while staying stable has WAY more to do with suspension, aero, etc. than it does with having 255 series tires lol. Go get an alignment and I bet you'll be much happier.

[ILoveJDM]

ive had a couple 300whp sr20s and a 550whp fd rx7.

500+ is a rocket ship..make sure you have plenty of room in front of you in every direction before you put the pedal down..if this is for drifting - 500+ picks up ALOT of speed quickly.

#1 if this is a highway car, you need a rear spoiler. I had a gt wing on my rx7, tons of highway rolls..260km/h +, took the wing off one day for gits and shiggles and rear end was floating around.

#2 upgrade your fucking brakes.

#3 upgrade your tire compound and width. no fucking front camber at 9 deg. I have a car with a ton of track width and camber up front and it cant stop in a straight line for shit.

[shogun!]

Mine has done 175 mph with the old engine (300-350hp). Steady as a rock.
In its upgraded version, it manage over 200 mph.
It has all what is needed to have great fun on track, quarter and street.

[Zohan]

Like someone mentioned everyone just wants to skip actually trying to build an awesome KA and just swap in an SR,RB,2jz etc. If you build an engine correctly you can squeeze some awesome power out of it.

My ka24e-t isnt massive power, but its fun and thats all that matters to me.


But yeah i think it really depends on the type of driving you plan on doing. If you want a car that handles awesome in tight corners you wont even need that much power. Just good gear ratios and proper suspension.

For my supra project im hoping just in the 340 WHP range and ill be happy. For the most part i dont plan on serious driving with it. Its literally just a freeway car thats only driven once maybe 3 times a month tops.

i know for me, 450 WHP in a supra was alot more than i imagined. My first ride in one was very raw and hard hitting power. And thats when i decided not even i needed that much power.

Makes me laugh at myself when i was 18 wanting a 700 HP supra with no experience even riding in a boosted car.

So true as well, everyone wants crazy high hp cars, I'd be happy to get around 300 with my Ka. I'd like to one day tune in the suspension as well, but as a youngster on a budget, I just want a reliable smooth build to kick me back in my seat sometimes, yet controllable drifting on the street or track, nothing over 4-5k in total

[Zohan]

I'm assuming you're talking about building a grassroots drift car or grip car. Either way I would worry about making the engine more reliable rather than making more power. Somewhere around 300hp is usually enough. If I was building an S-chassis, I wouldn't want more than about 400hp if I was driving it on the street. Anywhere past that and you usually end up running into issues with reliability, at least with an SR20DET. More than 400hp would be tough to control with most street cars anyways. You have to realize that big horsepower street cars like GTRs, Corvettes, and what not are engineered from the factory to drive safely on the streets with the amount of power they have, so that's a whole other story and you can't really compare a car from the 90s, that was designed to use around 220hp from the factory, to cars like that.

Yeah exactly!! As I mentioned, those cars are loaded with safety equipment, assists and what not, whereas powerful cars like 240's, supras, or Rx7's don't and thats where the raw power comes out and can turn your day into a disaster if you can't keep in on the road.

[Zohan]

ive had a couple 300whp sr20s and a 550whp fd rx7.

500+ is a rocket ship..make sure you have plenty of room in front of you in every direction before you put the pedal down..if this is for drifting - 500+ picks up ALOT of speed quickly.

#1 if this is a highway car, you need a rear spoiler. I had a gt wing on my rx7, tons of highway rolls..260km/h +, took the wing off one day for gits and shiggles and rear end was floating around.

#2 upgrade your fucking brakes.

#3 upgrade your tire compound and width. no fucking front camber at 9 deg. I have a car with a ton of track width and camber up front and it cant stop in a straight line for shit.

Yes, I have a big country labs wing and an origin 3d gtc wing, I have a set of wilwood brakes once I get my new rotors, I will put them on, as well as overfenders to run a more aggressive width.
Thanks for the tips

[Zohan]

Fucking tires, LSD and suspension.

No baby 225 bullshit. Full rubber 9.5 all around or wider on sticky 285s or bigger.

I have a 500hp SR20. It breaks loose at 60mph in 2nd gear. But I have meaty, sticky tires and great brakes to control it. I do just fine.

Lots of fun.

sounds like fun!! a little high hp for my daily applciations, but I definitely need to get some new tires and overfenders so I can run a 0 camber with my 9.5's

[Zohan]

For me my ka is fine in the 200 HP range, dont really need any more. Ive built the engine with quality parts so it should be fine. its been a couple years since the build.

for the supra i wouldnt compare it to cars like those. i just want a car thats fun and more power than 180 whp for stock. gets boring with how heavy the car is.

In your opinion, do you think a stock low mile KA needs internals to handle 300hp on a good tune?

[Chuki_KA24e]

In your opinion, do you think a stock low mile KA needs internals to handle 300hp on a good tune?

People get 300+ reliably all day long out of decent stock ka's, on stock internals, low and high mileage, with a good tune. You can find out everything you will need and exactly how to pull it off by looking at this link right here:

www.ka-t.org • Index page (http://www.ka-t.org/forums/index.php?sid=3d2de442f0b1cc71952853aaa5c0e1c9)

[do it sideways]

Ka-t's are like ebay parts , hit or miss, I wouldn't do it. Sr20's are far more reliable! And as far as having a lot of hp , obviously move up slowly with your skill level, don't jump from stock ka to 500hp. And yea 500hp is a lot of power in a little 240, so it's not going to be a easy car to control, gotta make sure suspension and tires are dialed in(no used old tires) For drifting it has pros and cons, it's going to pick up speed quickly and u have to have very good throttle control, but then u don't need clutch kick much at all and a lot of times don't need to downshift in critical transitions like a lower hp would need to.

[collegekid]

First figure out what you want to do with the car. Determine its purpose and then people can better help you.

Regardless, I would build the suspension first. Build a car with suspension and a motor you can "outdrive" instead of a car with a crapload of power you don't even know what to do with.

You leave yourself the possibility to improve your driving with your suspension fully addressed. Here's how it could go:

1. You build the motor all out with like 400hp and don't really touch the suspension besides coilovers. Let's say you go to the track (does'nt matter how you race) but you might lose control because you never adjusted your suspension to how you will drive. You might crash and say goodbye to your 240 minus the motor if you can salvage it and the 3 wheels that didnt get destroyed.

2. Start from the ground up like how everyone says. I thought I could build a motor and worry about suspension later. I was wrong. There is a lot down there that you can make better. Believe me, you can go apeshit with spending money on stuff down there.

I'm getting close to finishing up only my Rear suspension and I already have over 2 grand out back with a stock differential not counting coilovers. I still have the front to do.

I know there are plenty of people who can swap in a junkyard v8 for under 2 grand.
You can always find a motor. Do the motor last if you already have your ka or sr running properly.


I would recommend you
-google some suspension basics threads, roll center thread here is very informative
-I see that your sig says your car is low, search for the SPL parts geometry correction pdf on their site, splparts.com
-Look into getting an aluminum steering bushing
-isis rear arm package is like $400, it's a good start to learning how to adjust all the settings to where you want it. If you crash, you won't feel too bad about it versus crashing with $1200+ arms.
-traction arms you don't need yet
-buy good tires
- I hope you have a good BMC to go with the wilwoods


I was also broke early last year and now I'm going full on racecar with my 240. Be patient, spend money where you need to once you finally understand that you need to spend it on the suspension and not a 600hp ls1.

Simply put, the difference between 500hp 240's and 500hp corvettes is that from the factory, the corvette was built to handle the power and keep you going in the right direction. The 240sx was built for the middle aged woman back in the day.

[conrad_s13.5]

First upgrade driver,..then upgrade car

[racepar1]

It is best to learn with a lower horsepower car whether you are drifting, autocrossing, or road racing. This is because it forces you to hone important skills that can be somewhat supplemented with horsepower. With a low horsepower car driving technique is very important. Understanding and executing actual racing lines, smooth precise inputs, braking point, entry speed, apex, etc... are all magnified in importance due to the low power. If you go off-line in a low powered car, you're fucked. If you go off-line in a high powered car you can recover easier. Basically learning on a lower powered car teaches you to be more precise and disciplined with your driving. When you combine that kind of technique with a lot of horsepower then you have something special...

[BoostSlideWayz]

In your opinion, do you think a stock low mile KA needs internals to handle 300hp on a good tune?

You can do it, it's just the reliability may go out the window.

To me its almost confusing when people say one engine is more reliable than another... If you build an engine properly and do all your measurements and right adjustments it will be perfectly fine.

The block of the ka is nice since its cast iron. Cast iron blocks usually do awesome and hold just about what ever you throw at them.

They may be heavier than most but you dont have to worry about it much.

Also the ka in my opinion is a fun engine, i have a single cam . N-A its slow slow... but the engine itself almost seems like it was designed for boost. Its compression ratio at 8.5:1 is ideal for any boost application on normal gas ( not e85 ).

In general when ever your boosting an engine thats originally n-a your instantly altering its original operating conditions. So your making the head go from constant vacuum like its usually designed for to boost. which can make things very stressful for it.

However i personally do not feel its much of an issue for the KA, even though its a ( truck engine ) its tough. And the torque is really expressed when boost is involved.

When i built and boosted my ka the torque was extremely satisfying and fun. Also super easy to break the wheels loose, literally soon as the wheels are spinning you can feather the gas with out bogging which is nice and make it require less foot and shift knob work. just give it gas and have fun.

[redline racer510]

whoa whoa whoa! Torque steer in your 240? Do you you know what torque steer is? Before you go for a ride in anything go do some reading because your safety is more important than any car. You sound like you are new to cars but I could be wrong.

[redline racer510]

more power is compensation for less driving skills which is why my new buddy is my hx35 and 1000cc injectors not to mention my newest buddy nistune.

[mechanicalmoron]

OP, your 240 does NOT torque steer.

[redline racer510]

You can do it, it's just the reliability may go out the window.

To me its almost confusing when people say one engine is more reliable than another... If you build an engine properly and do all your measurements and right adjustments it will be perfectly fine.

The block of the ka is nice since its cast iron. Cast iron blocks usually do awesome and hold just about what ever you throw at them.

They may be heavier than most but you dont have to worry about it much.

Also the ka in my opinion is a fun engine, i have a single cam . N-A its slow slow... but the engine itself almost seems like it was designed for boost. Its compression ratio at 8.5:1 is ideal for any boost application on normal gas ( not e85 ).

In general when ever your boosting an engine thats originally n-a your instantly altering its original operating conditions. So your making the head go from constant vacuum like its usually designed for to boost. which can make things very stressful for it.

However i personally do not feel its much of an issue for the KA, even though its a ( truck engine ) its tough. And the torque is really expressed when boost is involved.

When i built and boosted my ka the torque was extremely satisfying and fun. Also super easy to break the wheels loose, literally soon as the wheels are spinning you can feather the gas with out bogging which is nice and make it require less foot and shift knob work. just give it gas and have fun.
You seriously cant prefer a ka-t over say a 2j, really?

[Corbic]

So I hear a lot of people saying how different it is driving a 230hp car vs. 500+ hp car and I would not doubt it,!

Those people are morons, especially if ware talking about turbo cars. Learn to drive, use proper size tires, not 195's stretched over 19x20" wheels rocking 580-degrees camber

[Corbic]

you dont need that kind of power in a 240. around 300 is perfect.

Perfectly fucking slow.

[Corbic]

Like someone mentioned everyone just wants to skip actually trying to build an awesome KA and just swap in an SR,RB,2jz etc. If you build an engine correctly you can squeeze some awesome power out of it.


Stupid people learn from their mistakes - smart ones learn from other peoples mistakes.

Why waste time, money and effort to build a KA-T only to then regret not going to an actual platform that will support healthier power and torque levels. By going LS/JZ you are not only going to get a bigger displacement engine, with a larger aftermarket, you are also gaining significantly stronger transmissions in both cases.

Instead of focusing on "learning to drift" the real goal should just be "learn to drive", and you can do that in anything if you start going to autocross events and taking instruction. Awesome drivers can drift - awesome drifters can't necessarily drive.

[Corbic]

You can do it, it's just the reliability may go out the window.

To me its almost confusing when people say one engine is more reliable than another... If you build an engine properly and do all your measurements and right adjustments it will be perfectly fine.

The block of the ka is nice since its cast iron. Cast iron blocks usually do awesome and hold just about what ever you throw at them.

They may be heavier than most but you dont have to worry about it much.


Please stop spreading miss information.

Block strength actually has very little to do with if it's "iron or aluminum" and a lot more to do with the actual design, webbing and alloy content of that iron or aluminum.

This breed of iron block is known to go "pop" at 400whp because of it's weak sauce alloy content. Race versions with more webbing and graphite added live long and proudly over 800whp.
http://www.smokemup.com/bb/files/split_block_198.jpg

[Corbic]

So true as well, everyone wants crazy high hp cars, I'd be happy to get around 300 with my Ka. I'd like to one day tune in the suspension as well, but as a youngster on a budget, I just want a reliable smooth build to kick me back in my seat sometimes, yet controllable drifting on the street or track, nothing over 4-5k in total

You have the same horsepower as a factory new Toyota Camry or a V6 Mustang. 700-900hp is "high horsepower".

[racepar1]

Holy quintuple post Corbic!!!

:wtf:

That might be a new record or something...

[Corbic]

Regardless, I would build the suspension first. Build a car with suspension and a motor you can "outdrive" instead of a car with a crapload of power you don't even know what to do with.

Disagree. Part of what makes driving a particular car fun is that "omfg it's gonna get away from me feel". If you've ever beat on an old muscle car you know exactly want I'm talking about. There is a lot of drama behind an old Cobra Jet or SS... and your white knuckled the whole way... only to realize you just ran 14.6.


You leave yourself the possibility to improve your driving with your suspension fully addressed. Here's how it could go:

Blah bla blah. If he was going to be a race car drive he'd been driving karts since he was 3. You can buy a stock Geo Prism and "Become a better drive". That requires training and wheel time - not mods and set ups.


1. You build the motor all out with like 400hp and don't really touch the suspension besides coilovers. Let's say you go to the track (does'nt matter how you race) but you might lose control because you never adjusted your suspension to how you will drive. You might crash and say goodbye to your 240 minus the motor if you can salvage it and the 3 wheels that didnt get destroyed.


Thank you, the internet is now dumber.


2. Start from the ground up like how everyone says. I thought I could build a motor and worry about suspension later. I was wrong. There is a lot down there that you can make better. Believe me, you can go apeshit with spending money on stuff down there.
I'm getting close to finishing up only my Rear suspension and I already have over 2 grand out back with a stock differential not counting coilovers. I still have the front to do.



Down where, what the fuck are you even talking about. Spend money, or waste money? I see a lot of kids that waste a lot of money to make their cars ride like shit and then think they have race cars.


I know there are plenty of people who can swap in a junkyard v8 for under 2 grand.

And be making 190whp... what is your point?



You can always find a motor. Do the motor last if you already have your ka or sr running properly.

You can always find suspension... :rolleyes:


I would recommend you
-google some suspension basics threads, roll center thread here is very informative
-I see that your sig says your car is low, search for the SPL parts geometry correction pdf on their site, splparts.com
-Look into getting an aluminum steering bushing
-isis rear arm package is like $400, it's a good start to learning how to adjust all the settings to where you want it. If you crash, you won't feel too bad about it versus crashing with $1200+ arms.
-traction arms you don't need yet
-buy good tires
- I hope you have a good BMC to go with the wilwoods


How does any of that make him a "Better drive". If anything it just means he's going to forget to torque down a CA or forget to bleed his brakes and crash. There is nothing wrong with the factory alignment specs. There is nothing wrong with the factory brakes and some quality brake pads. You will lock your front brakes.





I was also broke early last year and now I'm going full on retard with my 240. Be patient, spend money where you need to once you finally understand that you need to spend it on the suspension and not a 600hp ls1.

Is that the $2k engine your friend can swap?



Simply put, the difference between 500hp 240's and 500hp corvettes is that from the factory, the corvette was built to handle the power and keep you going in the right direction. The 240sx was built for the middle aged woman back in the day.

You're a fucking idiot. The S13 was a top-class performance car with ultra modern suspension for it's time. There was not much else out there that was better. A GTR and a 300ZX TT does not exactly have anything else dramatically different under them and the S15 was being sold with the same suspension 15 years latter and with 255hp from the factory.

So are you saying when I up the boost or swapped my turbo I suddenly now need to get my suspension realigned? Are you saying that the stamped stock control arms are going to bend and twist under the riggers of 400whp? Are you saying the car is going to suddenly do a backflip when it runs a 12.8 quarter mile?

Give me a fucking break.

[EsChassisLove]

The biggest problem with having a 500+HP turbo car, is th lag and when boost finally punches you in the face.

If you aren't used to it, it's a kick in the dick. Ass end kicks out in a millisecond, then you're stuck going WTTTFFFFFF was that. Lol

[BoostSlideWayz]

You seriously cant prefer a ka-t over say a 2j, really?

Im not saying i would prefer it over a 2jz.. i have a 2jz and i love the engine over a ka... im saying so many people toss the KA because there is this preconceived notion that the KA sucks... i personally disagree and believe in my ka and its a fun engine.

But of course if i had the chance to have a 2jz or rb in my s13 why not... im simply saying i like my KA ... is there really something wrong with that ?

Stupid people learn from their mistakes - smart ones learn from other peoples mistakes.

Why waste time, money and effort to build a KA-T only to then regret not going to an actual platform that will support healthier power and torque levels. By going LS/JZ you are not only going to get a bigger displacement engine, with a larger aftermarket, you are also gaining significantly stronger transmissions in both cases.

Instead of focusing on "learning to drift" the real goal should just be "learn to drive", and you can do that in anything if you start going to autocross events and taking instruction. Awesome drivers can drift - awesome drifters can't necessarily drive.

Im not trying to compare motors in that aspect at all... im literally saying everyone seems to just assume its a shitty engine and will swap it out with out trying to build it.

Also im not necessarily saying its better for drifting im saying in general its simpler to spin the wheels to initiate a drift...


Please stop spreading miss information.

Block strength actually has very little to do with if it's "iron or aluminum" and a lot more to do with the actual design, webbing and alloy content of that iron or aluminum.

This breed of iron block is known to go "pop" at 400whp because of it's weak sauce alloy content. Race versions with more webbing and graphite added live long and proudly over 800whp.
http://www.smokemup.com/bb/files/split_block_198.jpg


Your trying to say im spreading mis information just because you post a picture of an iron block that broke it half..... Ive seen plenty of ka-t's pushing awesome numbers with no block issues...

The reason i say what i say about iron vs aluminum blocks is because ive seen plenty of blocks warp at the deck simply because it over heated. Cast iron from my experience has never had issues like that. Not to mention the fact that you have to be so gentle with tightening bolts. Ive even seen LS engines crack just because they were bumped into something while they were being hoisted out of the bay.

Do you really think a 2jz engine would be as great as it is today if it were aluminum ? It would be shit if it were, and it wouldnt be as bullet proof as it is with its cast iron design.


Lastly ... it may be a waste of money to you building a KA.. But not to me... i had fun building it and its been a reliable engine for me so i dont see why thats a waste of money.

[Matej]

You have the same horsepower as a factory new Toyota Camry or a V6 Mustang. 700-900hp is "high horsepower".
And a go-kart could still beat them all.

200hp in a toy car is a lot more fun than 700hp in a dumpster.

[BossHogg]

First I laughed at this.


Holy quintuple post Corbic!!!

:wtf:

That might be a new record or something...

QUINTUPLE.
then this happened.


Are you saying the car is going to suddenly do a backflip when it runs a 12.8 quarter mile?

Give me a fucking break.

Thank you both. For the laugh.

[Spencer dougherty]

go 2jzgte & come to me when your ready for one

[racepar1]

First I laughed at this.

QUINTUPLE.
then this happened.

Thank you both. For the laugh.

I think Corbic shorted a wire or something, LOL!

:rant:

I was honestly thinking of seeing how many useless posts I could get in a row in this thread. I'm willing to bet that I wouldn't have gotten to 5 before somebody else posted... *COUGH* (Corbic) *COUGH*

EDIT: I just checked right now, I had 4 minutes before the next post, *COUGH* (Corbic) *COUGH*. I might have been able to get it done! HAHA!!!

Please stop spreading miss information.

Block strength actually has very little to do with if it's "iron or aluminum" and a lot more to do with the actual design, webbing and alloy content of that iron or aluminum.

This breed of iron block is known to go "pop" at 400whp because of it's weak sauce alloy content. Race versions with more webbing and graphite added live long and proudly over 800whp.

Wait, are you saying that KA blocks are known to break in half at around 400hp??? Talk about mis-information...

You do have a point that block design, construction, and material quality are JUST as important as wether a block is steel or iron. Stating that KA blocks fail above 400hp is a bit radical though. Also, TYPICALLY SPEAKING iron blocks are stronger than aluminum blocks and aluminum blocks tend to warp more than iron blocks. This may not be the case all of the time, but those are typical properties of aluminum and iron blocks.

I COMPLETELY missed that post earlier with the quintuple post thing going on and all...

[Zohan]

People get 300+ reliably all day long out of decent stock ka's, on stock internals, low and high mileage, with a good tune. You can find out everything you will need and exactly how to pull it off by looking at this link right here:

www.ka-t.org • Index page (http://www.ka-t.org/forums/index.php?sid=3d2de442f0b1cc71952853aaa5c0e1c9)
thanks man! i'll check it out

[Corbic]

Wait, are you saying that KA blocks are known to break in half at around 400hp??? Talk about mis-information...


Never said that. The block in question is a Ford 302 SBF.

Also since when did this tread go from idiots thinking 400hp is going to twist a 240sx like a pretzel to a KA vs World thread?

[racepar1]

Never said that. The block in question is a Ford 302 SBF.

Also since when did this tread go from idiots thinking 400hp is going to twist a 240sx like a pretzel to a KA vs World thread?

I have no idea, just seemed like you were implying that KA blocks were weak. I had no idea that the discussion was regarding a Ford smallblock specifically. Silly me, I should have known that you guys were discussing an underpowered Ford V8 on a Nissan forum...

[Corbic]

I have no idea, just seemed like you were implying that KA blocks were weak. I had no idea that the discussion was regarding a Ford smallblock specifically. Silly me, I should have known that you guys were discussing an underpowered Ford V8 on a Nissan forum...

Don't be a sarcastic ass.

Go back and read the OP if you have too.

So if someone could go a little in depth as to what things someone should have in mind before going all out on a motor.

Not my fault Collegekid's butt-hole got all puckered up over the idea that someone would swap out a KA instead of "building it first".

He made the broad statement that Iron blocks are stronger then aluminum, which is not true. They certainly can be, but there are also plenty of aluminum block engines out there that are stronger then iron block ones.

As for the SBF being underpowered - meh. It's the design the LS-seires was based off of, it can make so much power it tears it's self apart and in NASCAR the Ford engine is the only one actually based off a product motor. Dodge, GM and Toyota engines have nothing to do with their commercial counterparts.

[racepar1]

Don't be a sarcastic ass.

Go back and read the OP if you have too.

I am ALWAYS a sarcastic ass, not changing that...

Not my fault Collegekid's butt-hole got all puckered up over the idea that someone would swap out a KA instead of "building it first".

I'm a KA fan myself but as long as it's not for a 1/2j or 1uz swap away!

He made the broad statement that Iron blocks are stronger then aluminum, which is not true. They certainly can be, but there are also plenty of aluminum block engines out there that are stronger then iron block ones.

Typically that is not the case, as a generalization the OP is correct. You're being a nitpicky sarcastic ass yourself and arguing the details to death with specific incidences of iron blocks being weak/poorly designed.

As for the SBF being underpowered - meh. It's the design the LS-seires was based off of, it can make so much power it tears it's self apart and in NASCAR the Ford engine is the only one actually based off a product motor. Dodge, GM and Toyota engines have nothing to do with their commercial counterparts.

5.0 Ford's make what, like 200hp??? That's underpowered. Yes, if you change EVERYTHING about the engine it can make a lot of power. Yes, it is one of the cheapest engines to build. That doesn't change the fact that in stock form it was far underpowered. If you change EVERYTHING about a KA it can make a TON of N/A hp as well. Ford's Nascar engines being "based" off their production engines isn't really anything to brag about. It might share one or two castings with their current products, but that's it. I'm sure that the GM and Dodge engines are based off some engine that was a production engine at one time as well.

I hate Ford, and Mustangs (generally speaking). Enough of this shit already...

:barf:

[conrad_s13.5]

this thread is serious!........apparently

[Zohan]

OP, your 240 does NOT torque steer.

I could've swore I put "in the rain" but yeah in the rain i've experienced it. pretty sketchy

[yzrider450f]

I could've swore I put "in the rain" but yeah in the rain i've experienced it. pretty sketchy

that makes even less sense

[corkscrew]

http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=35286&d=1358147400

[p1rat3]

Are you saying the car is going to suddenly do a backflip when it runs a 12.8 quarter mile?

This is pretty much the only good thing this thread offered

[Reece]

I could've swore I put "in the rain" but yeah in the rain i've experienced it. pretty sketchy

RWD cars don't torque steer. FWD cars do. Torque steer is when the car steers itself under heavy boost/power/torque/whatever, and it only happens in FWD cars. Maybe you meant oversteer.

Anyway, OP, what you should do is get GOOD coilovers (not cheap eBay shit), get the diff welded, get a seat and harness, and work on becoming a good driver before you add power.

[soundboy]

Agreed. I always wanted almost 600hp in my car for a daily, more than enough power for fun right? Nope. I drove a car with almost 300hp and i shat bricks, That little power was so hard to control. The turbo literally hits you like a bitch when you reach full boost. I nearly ran into the vehicle in front the car.

as said before work on becoming a good driver before you add power

[shogun!]

Zzzzzz zzzzz zzzz.... ;)

[Corbic]

Anyway, OP, what you should do is get GOOD coilovers (not cheap eBay shit), get the diff welded, get a seat and harness, and work on becoming a good driver before you add power.

You don't need any of that shit if you want to be a "good driver".

[Corbic]

I drove a car with almost 300hp and i shat bricks,

Balls:

You have none.

I totally thought the opposite. Like OMFG, all I need is 300whp... now I have it, and I'm like, wow this sucks donkey balls.

[Reece]

You don't need any of that shit if you want to be a "good driver".

You don't need 500hp, either.

From what I read before, this guy wants to get into drifting. Everything I listed is either necessary or incredibly helpful.

[Frank_Jaeger]

Balls:

You have none.

I totally thought the opposite. Like OMFG, all I need is 300whp... now I have it, and I'm like, wow this sucks donkey balls.
One time I did DMT. Now any amount of horsepower is insufficient, period.