Religion<Jesus

[delado]

1IAhDGYlpqY

Thoughts?

[DS562]

i think you should leave this out of a car forum. or at least post it where it belongs.

[slydin240sx]

Watched the video on the Book of Faces earlier. I was impressed! I loved it.

[delado]

Woops. I did off topic and missed LOUD NOISES. Sorry mods.

[Phlip]

9 friends just posted this on FB.
I liked it on each of their profiles

[soreballz]

Myself, I'm a non-believer. However, I feel that if all of the believers followed this fellas example, the world would be a happier, more pleasant place.

[kingkilburn]

Is this a joke?

[blingbling]

Is this a joke?

What are you talking about, how would this be a joke.


Loved this by the way

[kingkilburn]

Weak arguments to not like religion. Weak arguments to love Christ. Weaker spoken word.

At least the camera work and editing were good.

[blingbling]

I thought he made some simple but very good points. It's a 3 minute long Youtube video not a sermon

[rb20240sx]

LOL he would be rapping. made it about 15 seconds in.

[280zx2by2]

I Hate Religion, And Jesus Too - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBo7Z_abiLE)

[I LUV MY S13]

Ive been telling people this shit for years now. Religion has caused more harm and seperation among people than good. If you wanna believe in some all-powerful being creating the known universe, fine. But you shouldnt live your life by some book or what a group of people say.

[kingkilburn]

I Hate Religion, And Jesus Too - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBo7Z_abiLE)

YES EXACTLY

yBo7Z_abiLE

[lewisfk]

the best thing heard all day!

[DALAZ_68]

I thought he made some simple but very good points. It's a 3 minute long Youtube video not a sermon

thank god... :tardrim:

[blingbling]

I Hate Religion, And Jesus Too - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBo7Z_abiLE)

Gotta love 12 minute rants by some fat bastard who disagrees. It's like saying "hey I don't give a fuck about what this guy has to say, nor do I support it but I'll go ahead and spread his message to everyone I can."

[dpak]

Weak arguments to not like religion. Weak arguments to love Christ. Weaker spoken word.

At least the camera work and editing were good.

weak but good videography? ..KEN BLOCK!?

[delado]

And I'm sure some of you also believe that Lil Wayne is the best rapper alive :hyper:

[kandyflip445]

I would have finished it if it wasn't a rap. But I just couldn't...

[kingkilburn]

It's not rap, it's crappy spoken word poetry set to underground hiphop.

[Walperstyle]

There is a few of you on here
http://chzmemebase.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/internet-memes-untitled.jpg

[Walperstyle]

What many of you atheists hate to admit, is the problem with religon is man. Not god.

But being most atheists are already selfish people, go hate yourself in a corner, off the internet while the rest of us try to do some good in the world.

[soreballz]

What many of you atheists hate to admit, is the problem with religon is man. Not god.

I think that's sort of the point of the video.
And considering that atheists don't believe in God, I'm sure they realize that the issue with is man, not "God." You know, since they believe that he's a man-made fictional character and all.
Get it? Cool observations though, dude. Very enlightening.

[allntrlundrgrnd]

But being most atheists are already selfish people, go hate yourself in a corner, off the internet while the rest of us try to do some good in the world.

You have a lot to learn.

Not an atheist, this just struck me as an extremely ignorant comment.

So, people who rely on logic and scientific fact to explain the natural world are selfish whilst "religious" people think that the millions of others whose beliefs don't align with their own are eternally doomed?

Interesting!

[AdamR]

What many of you atheists hate to admit, is the problem with religon is man. Not god.

But being most atheists are already selfish people, go hate yourself in a corner, off the internet while the rest of us try to do some good in the world.
:picardfp:
Yeah, atheists have never done anything good for the world.

[kingkilburn]

There is a few of you on here
http://chzmemebase.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/internet-memes-untitled.jpg

We should respect all cultures and religions except hate mongering monotheists.

What many of you atheists hate to admit, is the problem with religon is man. Not god.

What atheist ever says that? The problem with man is man. If you don't believe in a higher power how do you blame a higher power?


But being most atheists are already selfish people, go hate yourself in a corner, off the internet while the rest of us try to do some good in the world.

Oh yeah? Well most Christians are bigoted closed minded loudmouths.

See what I did there? It's easy to make unfounded generalizations. I don't believe the above statement btw. Just thought I'd say that before someone gets their panties in a bunch.

[ronmcdon]

I can't stand that Jefferson guy.

the 'fat dude' with glass of wine has good points though.
for instance how can you say you like the church, bible, jesus and then go on to say you hate religion?
like the fat dude says it doesn't add up & seems like it's all marketing, albeit not too shrewd.
too much ambiguity and contradictions, sounds Jeffson sounds exactly like what he attempts to preach against.

[allntrlundrgrnd]

for instance how can you say you like the church, bible, jesus and then go on to say you hate religion?

Attending church can be a reassuring and positive environment, the Bible for the most part has a good message, and Jesus was a good dude.

Religion, on the other hand, has started countless wars, corrupted men, and reinforced discrimination against women, to name a few. Not to mention the general dickishness of many politicians in our country at the moment.

I would not consider them one in the same.

[ronmcdon]

idk if that's compelling enough.
I think you would have to specify the particular elements of religion that work or don't work.
as with most theological discussion you can't expect the terms to be clear and transparent for all.
Jefferson doesn't do such a great job of expressing that imo.
(like the fat dude said you might as well be marketing Coke over other soda).

religion, to me, sounds very general and in itself too vague to make an argument about either way.
Using anything as general as religion as a basis for an argument (without getting to the specifics) is no wiser than making generalizations imo.

I am also unsure why Jefferson choose to use the word 'religion' instead of 'Christianity' even though it seems he was referring to it.
He just sets himself up for further misunderstanding.
I admit I didn't like the guy at all (message or aesthetics) less than 10 secs into the vid.

[allntrlundrgrnd]

I only got a few seconds into it before I made a judgement, as well.

Here's an example of what is wrong with one religion, in particular. Priest's are not allowed to get married based solely on the outdated practice that when a man died, all his worldly possessions went to his first born son. No son? Church takes it. This in turn is partially responsible for the practice of priests abusing children, which occurs on a global scale, far more frequently than most are aware.

Also, the man at the very top of this organization is well aware of this occurrence, yet absolutely refuses to do anything to counteract it. What could be more corrupt than allowing the raping of babies?

[SR240DET]

I hate fruit, but I love oranges.

This guy is coming off a bit hypocritical.

[kingkilburn]

Attending church can be a reassuring and positive environment, the Bible for the most part has a good message, and Jesus was a good dude.

Religion, on the other hand, has started countless wars, corrupted men, and reinforced discrimination against women, to name a few. Not to mention the general dickishness of many politicians in our country at the moment.

I would not consider them one in the same.

My experience with church is that it is a place for hypocrites to sit on the moral high horses and tell you how to live your life while doing worse things than you ever would have dreamed of doing with or without "Satan's temptation".

The Bible has no message. It is half history and half rule book(and the new testament breaks all the rules set before it making null and void even if you do believe in the god of Abraham).

The historical Jesus is a myth and the Biblical Jesus was the worst jew to walk the earth outside of Hitler. The Old Testament very specifically lays down what rules Jews MUST follow as well as the very strict definition of what the Messiah can and can not be. Jesus fails on both.




If you pray to anything to better your life and you must go to a specific place and do things in a specific manner you most definitely are practicing a religion.

You can love Jesus all day and all night but unless you follow the rules of the RELIGION you're still going to hell.

[redline racer510]

"The historical Jesus is a myth and the Biblical Jesus was the worst jew to walk the earth outside of Hitler. The Old Testament very specifically lays down what rules Jews MUST follow as well as the very strict definition of what the Messiah can and can not be. Jesus fails on both."

I am not a christian but how can you judge jesus based on the accuracy of a book that was altered at least eight times,written at least 300 years after the inception of it's teachings and if it was the word of god why did it need to be altered? God=perfect, bible=many contradictions/unproven statements, so how can it be the word of god if it has flaws? How can you judge someone based off of the wikipedia of religious books(bible). You say he is a myth where is your proof? Please educate me.

[kingkilburn]

The new testament never claims to be the word of god. It is a series of "biographies" about the same man. They aren't even the words of the men they are attributed to.

You imply he isn't a myth, where is your proof.

[kingkilburn]

Not even all the old testament is supposed to be the word of god.

[redline racer510]

My proof is that you don't have any proof, lol. But really you cant dismiss the fact that more than a billion people believe in this guy which makes the likely hood of his existence just a little more valid than your theory.

[redline racer510]

not what christian leaders say

[AdamR]

My proof is that you don't have any proof, lol. But really you cant dismiss the fact that more than a billion people believe in this guy which makes the likely hood of his existence just a little more valid than your theory.

Wow, two logical fallacies in the same post.

[redline racer510]

Thanks for pointing it out.
Don't matter I still win,lol.

[kingkilburn]

not what christian leaders say

Who gives a fuck what they say? All I care about is what the book says.

[Mrpopo]

Hitler(not a Jew), Stalin, and Mao are the three worst mass murderers in history by far. All of them were atheist. Just do some research before you say religions have started all the worlds wars and massacres of history. Educate yourself before you start fighting on the Interwebz. Religion has it's problems but atheism has an equal number of problems.

[kingkilburn]

Thanks for pointing it out.
Don't matter I still win,lol.

You very clearly don't.

My proof is that you don't have any proof, lol. But really you cant dismiss the fact that more than a billion people believe in this guy which makes the likely hood of his existence just a little more valid than your theory.

Proof of what?

The fact that a bunch of people believe something doesn't mean anything.

There is no theory in what I said. I use only facts. For every piece of evidence from the church you can regurgitate I can give you cold hard facts to refute it.

So why don't we do the logical thing and lay the burden of proof on the person making the claim for existence.

[kingkilburn]

Hitler(not a Jew), Stalin, and Mao are the three worst mass murderers in history by far. All of them were atheist. Just do some research before you say religions have started all the worlds wars and massacres of history. Educate yourself before you start fighting on the Interwebz. Religion has it's problems but atheism has an equal number of problems.

A lot of evidence points towards Hitler being ethnically Jewish.

You can't name a single battle fought in the name of atheism. Just because some dictator was atheist doesn't mean that is the reason they were bad people.

[Mrpopo]

There is no factual information that hitler was a Jew. He was Austrian. That is fact. The German people under hitler were clearly atheist. They killed millions because of it.
Stalin rounded up the Christians in Russia and slaughtered them. He burned churches and mosques. Under his rule the russian people were clearly atheist.
Same with Mao and china. They killed Christians and Muslims alike.
Don't like it, tough. Those are facts not opinions. Just do some research.

[kingkilburn]

Being Austrian doesn't mean he wasn't also Jewish.

Those men were evil military dictators. They crushed any and all people that could be a threat to their power and authority, that includes but is not limited religious organizations.

Of course they did disgusting things. Them being atheist has nothing to do with it.


You do know most of America's founding fathers were atheist, right?

[Mrpopo]

Wow. You think most of the framers were atheist? There might not be help for you then.
Our founding fathers by far were Christian. Everything they wrote and said had references to God. My goodness man get a history book.

[kingkilburn]

Maybe I should employ the same tactic and compile a list of horrible people that are/were religious.

[Mrpopo]

Like I said before there are examples on all sides. However the greatest mass murderers of all time were atheist and despised religion because it threatened there power.

[kingkilburn]

Wow. You think most of the framers were atheist? There might not be help for you then.
Our founding fathers by far were Christian. Everything they wrote and said had references to God. My goodness man get a history book.

Now I'll need some proof of that. A few of them were christian but most were deist at best.

[Mrpopo]

There are countless books on our founding fathers. Google any of them and you will see.

[mkezzo16]

People fail to realize religions origin is political. The original temple was in ourselves before the 1st church/temple was ever established. Hence even all the different types of christianity. Why do you think the crusades n all that bloodshed took place in the name of"religion" or "god" Evil doers know that using the words of god can be used as a weapon instead of the uplifting of humanity

[Mrpopo]

That doesn't make all organized religion bad. Just like it doesn't make atheist bad people. Historically speaking the Buddhist are the only ones that never went and killed people. You can find bad in just about everything.

[kingkilburn]

Like I said before there are examples on all sides. However the greatest mass murderers of all time were atheist and despised religion because it threatened there power.

So Mohamed doesn't count. Alexander the Great doesn't count. Kaiser Wilhelm doesn't count. The catholic church and all it's many crusades don't count. Vikings don't count. Japan's empire of the rising sun doesn't count. The Chinese(before communism) massacring nearly all other ethnic groups and religions within their borders doesn't count. European colonialism doesn't count. South African apartheid doesn't count.


I could go on and on and on. The reality is that the religion or lack there of has no bearing on such matters. Bad people do bad things.

[Mrpopo]

Refer to my previous post for that.

[kingkilburn]

People fail to realize religions origin is political. The original temple was in ourselves before the 1st church/temple was ever established. Hence even all the different types of christianity. Why do you think the crusades n all that bloodshed took place in the name of"religion" or "god" Evil doers know that using the words of god can be used as a weapon instead of the uplifting of humanity

Wrong. The first temple was built at god's command. At least if you actually read the bible.

That doesn't make all organized religion bad. Just like it doesn't make atheist bad people. Historically speaking the Buddhist are the only ones that never went and killed people. You can find bad in just about everything.

So what the hell is your point then?

[Mrpopo]

In the name of atheism: hitler, Stalin, and Mao killed more people than all the other religions combined. They killed people simply because they were muslim, Christian, or anything other than atheist and bowed to their rule. That's something you can research yourself like our founding fathers.

This is fun. I like a good civilized argument/debate.

[kingkilburn]

They didn't kill them in the name of atheism. They killed them because they were murderous dictators.

[Mrpopo]

Hitler said put your faith in me and Germany not god.

I'm somewhat of a history buff btw

[kingkilburn]

That statement doesn't prove that he killed people in the name of atheism or that he was atheist to begin with.

[allntrlundrgrnd]

Everything they wrote and said had references to God. My goodness man get a history book.


I'm somewhat of a history buff btw

For a history buff, you might want to rethink making statements like that. God isn't even mentioned in the original U.S. Constitution. Religious tests are banned from keeping a person from holding any federal office according to this document, because they intended to keep religious matters out of government.

[Mrpopo]

Hitler was a devout atheist by his own admission. All the occult stuff that came out of Nazi Germany was from Himler.

Better go read the history of the constitution again. A prayer was said before and after the reading and signing. It's on our money, it's there when officials are sworn in, it's in our courts. This country is still by far a god fearing nation. Just so happens most media people and Hollywood people aren't. There is a big world outside of tv and Internet.

[kingkilburn]

HIM BEING ATHEIST DOESN'T PROVE YOUR ARGUMENT! You are beating the ever living shit out of this dead horse and going no where with it.

When did "In God we trust" get put on our money? When did they start swearing people in with a bible? Not from the inception of the country that's for damn sure.

The ten commandments and Moses being in courtrooms is fine with me. Even if I don't believe in god those ten rules are a sound basis for law and order. Most courthouses also have blind justice in on or around them and she is based on a Greek deity. Does that make the justice department polytheistic? lol

[Mrpopo]

I'm not beating a dead horse. You are avoiding and side stepping a fact. Hitler was the leader of Nazi Germany when the atrocities happened. That makes him and his beliefs responsible. Just like the church of England sending soldiers to convert or kill.

This country was founded by Christians and has a very strong Christian base. Don't get mad and try to marginalize Christians. Every time a religious anything pops up, atheist come out swinging. Calm down. There seems to be tolerance for every one in the world except Christians.

[kingkilburn]

You are twisting facts and making HUGE logical leaps and still not proving your argument.


I have tolerance for every belief system except Christianity and Islam. I don't like all of them but I can put up with them. Christianity and Islam are the only two that have caused senseless bloodshed for 2000 years with no end in sight.

[Mrpopo]

Wow. I guess that's an impasse

[kingkilburn]

If you want to worship the god of Abraham do it as that god intended and convert to Judaism.

[CleanAndLegit]

religion(man)

faith(god)

hitler(atheist)
crusades(christian religious)

shit happens
people do shit.

bible has a message
to every person they're own.


/thread

[scott883]

Fuckkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk

Sent from my BlackBerry 9810 using Tapatalk

[allntrlundrgrnd]

Better go read the history of the constitution again. A prayer was said before and after the reading and signing. It's on our money, it's there when officials are sworn in, it's in our courts. This country is still by far a god fearing nation. Just so happens most media people and Hollywood people aren't. There is a big world outside of tv and Internet.

It was added to money in the 50's and 60's. Same with the pledge of allegiance.

You said everything they wrote had references to God. This is false.

[tgd89]

Wow. I guess that's an impasse

Atheist believe in nothing, nothing can't be the cause of atrocity. Hitler, Stalen, etc... committed the acts they did due to feelings of superiority, a sentiment that those with religion are not always without.

[redline racer510]

You are twisting facts and making HUGE logical leaps and still not proving your argument.


I have tolerance for every belief system except Christianity and Islam. I don't like all of them but I can put up with them. Christianity and Islam are the only two that have caused senseless bloodshed for 2000 years with no end in sight.

That is insane, so you wont tolerate any christian or Muslim's belief because of another person or group of people that may have committed an atrocity? That is kinda prejudice in my book, that's like saying I cant tolerate any atheist because of some of the things atheist have committed. I don't judge an entire people because of what a group of people commit in the name of whatever. For how smart you sound your pretty ignorant.

[tgd89]

That is insane, so you wont tolerate any christian or Muslim's belief because of another person or group of people that may have committed an atrocity? That is kinda prejudice in my book, that's like saying I cant tolerate any atheist because of some of the things atheist have committed. I don't judge an entire people because of what a group of people commit in the name of whatever. For how smart you sound your pretty ignorant.

It depends how you interpret it, he said he doesn't tolerate their belief systems, I would assume as there are things in both the Qur'an and Bible that could motivate people to do things one could find reprehensible.

[Mrpopo]

Go read some history books. God was in fact a huge part of everything the founders did and referenced everywhere. It didn't just start in the 50s and 60s.

Atheist like hitler and Stalin murdered because of race and religion. Deny it all you want but it's true. Every time I have a debate with an atheist they get mad because they assume that I will magically change my views because of them.

[SR240DET]

In the name of atheism: hitler, Stalin, and Mao killed more people than all the other religions combined. They killed people simply because they were muslim, Christian, or anything other than atheist and bowed to their rule. That's something you can research yourself like our founding fathers.

Hitler believes jesus, but he hated Christianity. Hey!! that sounds familiar.

Atheism has the same meaning as somebody who rejects the existence of a fictional character such as; tooth fairy, Santa, underpants gnomes, etc. Stalin was a uneducated psychopathy that wanted to be godlike himself. He actually thought religion was good for people (yes it can help tame those who have immoral tendencies) that even rejected Darwin's theory of evolution. He was simply following The instructions to Marxist communism, the total control of a population; “The first requisite for the happiness of the people is the abolition of religion” -Karl Marx. Marxism suggest that the state should be the only thing you believe in.

Mao Zedong non beliefs in theology, like Stalin, only correlates to their strong desire for dogmatic Marxism communism and what Karl marx suggestion for religion.


Hitler was a devout atheist by his own admission. All the occult stuff that came out of Nazi Germany was from Himler.

Better go read the history of the constitution again. A prayer was said before and after the reading and signing. It's on our money, it's there when officials are sworn in, it's in our courts. This country is still by far a god fearing nation. Just so happens most media people and Hollywood people aren't. There is a big world outside of tv and Internet.

Hitler loved jesus and wish they had a religion that would promote sacrifice like the Japanese.

Article 11 of the Treaty of Tripoli states:

Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,—as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen,—and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.

The constitution does not mention God, Jesus, the bible, nor any other specific religion.

I do not fear things that go bump in the night.

EDIT: watching the history channel doesn't make you a history buff,.... http://i.imgur.com/6Qq4c.jpg

[Mrpopo]

I never said the constitution itself mentioned God. Someone else did. However, a prayer was said at the signing of and ratification of our constitution. The Christian God was a huge part of the founding of our country. Our founders were fleeing religious persecution. That's why it is not in the actual constitution. To say they were mostly atheist is absurd.

[redline racer510]

There isn't anything to interpret he hates christian and muslim's beliefs if he cant tolerate there beliefs than this is a huge contradiction to himself. Atheist say they dont believe in anything because religion is one of the primary contributors to bloodshed but he goes saying I cant tolerate an entire peoples belief because it caused some people to do bad things. There will never be peace if you cant tolerate there belief,race,culture etc just how some people can't tolerate atheist, its complete bull$hit.

[Mrpopo]

That guy is hilarious

I actually majored in history sir. Not history channel.

[tgd89]

Go read some history books. God was in fact a huge part of everything the founders did and referenced everywhere. It didn't just start in the 50s and 60s.
Better your argument and give us some references.

Atheist like Hitler and Stalin murdered because of race and religion. They committed atrocities because of their feelings of superiority stemming from their opinions on race, religion, and politics. There is no 'tenet' in atheism to condone any of this, however tenets in the Bible and Qu'ran have been interpreted to be used for ill (crusades 1-9, witch trials, inquisition, persecution of homosexuals).

[Mrpopo]

They have this thing called google

I'm going to bed now. Okay luv ya buhbye.

[tgd89]

I never said the constitution itself mentioned God. Someone else did. However, a prayer was said at the signing of and ratification of our constitution. The Christian God was a huge part of the founding of our country. Our founders were fleeing religious persecution. That's why it is not in the actual constitution. To say they were mostly atheist is absurd.

By founders I assume you mean the puritans that landed here, as the founding fathers that wrote the constitution were born here.

They have this thing called google
It's your argument not mine, I'll assume there are no supporting references.

[Mrpopo]

My goodness what do they teach in schools these days. The colonies were under English rule and constant religious persecution. Check the declaration of independence, you'll find some there for starters. Now I say good day to you sir

[tgd89]

My goodness what do they teach in schools these days. The colonies were under English rule and constant religious persecution. Check the declaration of independence, you'll find some there for starters. Now I say good day to you sir

Right, they sent boats across the Atlantic to persecute people. My point was they weren't fleeing anything. Britain renounced its religious persecution in 1689, in fact the colonies themselves were much of a source of religious persecution with Puritans (and others) deeming some views incorrect, especially Quakers (America as a Religious Refuge: the 17th Century - PART 2 (Religion and the Founding of the American Republic, Library of Congress Exhibition) (http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/religion/rel01-2.html)). Also several founding fathers were Deists (Religion in 18th-Century America (Religion and the Founding of the American Republic, Library of Congress Exhibition) (http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/religion/rel02.html)).

[kingkilburn]

What a joke this all is. :/


I refuse to tolerate ANY belief system that allows one person to kill another because they don't conduct their own life in accordance with someone else's wishes.

Islam's belief that it should cleanse the world of non believers is bs. Plain and simple. I don't care who I piss of with that opinion. Luckily most civilized Muslims don't agree with that interpretation.

Christianity finds itself to be morally superior to all others while making excuses for looting poor, stupid people and raping boys. It absolves itself of responsibility for generations of senseless bloodshed. It has literally crushed thousands of cultures and languages under it's boot.



I don't hate religion but I despise these two. Believe what you want but the moment you force you ideology on someone else that's the end. Your ideology loses all merit.




And just to add fuel to your obvious confusion redline. I see no reason to tolerate a hateful, violent ideology. Interpret that.

[kingkilburn]

mrpopo you seem to have gotten some skewed history books while in college.

[ronmcdon]

What a joke this all is. :/


I refuse to tolerate ANY belief system that allows one person to kill another because they don't conduct their own life in accordance with someone else's wishes.



that sounds like the death penalty too.
why let it stop at death, suffering is just as legit.
loosely interpreted this could apply to a wide range of things.
not sure if it's a very practical assessment.

[AdamR]

You are twisting facts and making HUGE logical leaps and still not proving your argument.


I have tolerance for every belief system except Christianity and Islam. I don't like all of them but I can put up with them. Christianity and Islam are the only two that have caused senseless bloodshed for 2000 years with no end in sight.

Just give up, he doesn't understand logical fallacies.
BTW, you forgot Judaism.

[AdamR]

That guy is hilarious

I actually majored in history sir. Not history channel.

I really hope that isn't true. Because your ignorance, failure to understand why the argument you are making is flawed, and completely incorrect statements really make me wonder if you even finished high school.

[SR240DET]

that sounds like the death penalty too.
why let it stop at death, suffering is just as legit.
loosely interpreted this could apply to a wide range of things.
not sure if it's a very practical assessment.

Like morality is subjective?

[ronmcdon]

that's another way of looking at, sure.

[kingkilburn]

Why push the limits of a clear cut statement? I said strictly what I meant.

[revat619]

Christianity finds itself to be morally superior to all others while making excuses for looting poor, stupid people and raping boys. It absolves itself of responsibility for generations of senseless bloodshed. It has literally crushed thousands of cultures and languages under it's boot.


What you're referring to is Catholicism.

While presently the term "Christianity" is used as an umbrella term to encompass many different religions, it is VASTLY different from it's original meaning.

The term "Christians" was first coined as a derogatory term for gentiles (non jews) in the city of Antioch around early AD 40-60 who were followers of the teachings of Jesus Christ and who were under fierce persecution by the Roman government (for reference, the emperor at the time was Claudius). The persecution was because they would not worship Claudius as their God.

Now, if one claims to be a "Christian" by the truest sense of the word then one would be inclined to follow what Jesus Christ actually said. His words to his original disciples when they asked him what was the greatest commandment (and i'm paraphrasing) "the most important being Love the Lord your God with all your heart,soul, mind and strength and the second one being Love your neighbor as yourself. there is no commandment greater than these". If you want to look it up, it's in Mark 12:29-31. And for the record the original gospel of mark in greek from the original canon and as part of the dead sea scrolls is viewed as a verified historical document for those that wanna say "oh well its from the Bible it didnt happen". The new testament also goes onto to describe how one is to live as a "christian" and NO WHERE does it condone the bloodshed of innocent people, the raping of babies, and so an so forth.

I can write a lot more about this and provide examples if you'd like, but my main point is that people have GROSSLY manipulated what the Bible says and what the term Christian truly means. Nowadays "Christian" can mean a NUMBER of things and it's really quite sad....

[kingkilburn]

When I say Christian I mean people who believe Jesus died on a cross for their salvation and was resurrected three days later. I don't care if you're Gnostic, Calvinist, Catholic, or dance with rattlesnakes.


The gospel of Mark is verified to have been written when claimed. That is all that's verified. None of the gospels are consistent with each other, the old testament, or historical records from the time. Case in point, the fictional Roman census in Bethlehem. It never happened and none of the other gospels place his birth there either.




The figurative keys to the church were given to the priesthood. Any decisions made by the church are basically the will of god. That is the base for the authority of the catholic church. You simply can't make the claim that those actions aren't condoned. If the all knowing and all seeing god didn't condone it he wouldn't have given his stamp of approval to the church.

[revat619]

When I say Christian I mean people who believe Jesus died on a cross for their salvation and was resurrected three days later. I don't care if you're Gnostic, Calvinist, Catholic, or dance with rattlesnakes.

Again, that is a huge generalization. While they MAY all believe that (and some do, but with "conditions"..again not Biblical), how they all carry out what the guy actually said( if at all) is ENTIRELY different. So they are not all the same group of people.


The gospel of Mark is verified to have been written when claimed. That is all that's verified. None of the gospels are consistent with each other, the old testament, or historical records from the time. Case in point, the fictional Roman census in Bethlehem. It never happened and none of the other gospels place his birth there either.


The Gospels were first hand accounts (eye witnesses) written from their perspectives. Some experiences over lap while others do not, however the message of Jesus as Lord, his death and resurrection for salvation (the foundational belief of true Christianity) is exactly the same.

As for the census, yes the decree for a "census" was made but as you said it "never happened" because what was actually being carried out under the guise of a census was the mass genocide of the first born jewish sons because of what was told to Augusts Ceasar that a "king would rise from Israel". Hence the reason they fled to Egypt. None of the other gospels had to place his birth there because it was already done in the prophetic book of Isaiah where it says the Messiah will come from the city and lineage of David (David's birthplace of Bethlehem and his bloodline)

The figurative keys to the church were given to the priesthood. Any decisions made by the church are basically the will of god. That is the base for the authority of the catholic church. You simply can't make the claim that those actions aren't condoned. If the all knowing and all seeing god didn't condone it he wouldn't have given his stamp of approval to the church.

This is NOT Biblical which goes back to my point that the Bible and "Christianity" have been grossly manipulated and misinterpreted throughout history. The Bible gives VERY clear instructions as to how "Christians" are to conduct themselves IF they are read in the correct context.

I'm not trying to "convert" you or make you believe that everything out of the Bible is true, however what i am saying is that MANY religions who claim to be followers of Christ and view the Bible as God's word aren't following what it says at all OR they're completely manipulating what it says for their own personal gain.

[Mrpopo]

You guys are funny. Don't call someone's education into question because of an interwebz statement you don't agree with. That negates anything you ever say. You have no clue about American history that is obvious. I went to school in America where they give you the good with the bad and nobody agrees on anything. You have the right to disagree with me sure, but when you start name calling and such, you lose all validity. Don't be childish because you disagree.

[allntrlundrgrnd]

Everything they wrote and said had references to God. My goodness man get a history book.

I never said the constitution itself mentioned God. Someone else did.

Contradictions are fun!

[Mrpopo]

Read it a couple times and let it marinate.

Oh and look how the constitution is dated. Hmm not to get technical. Again they referenced God in everything they did whether it was in the actual document or the proceedings before or after it. Doesn't mean you have to agree or like it, just be an adult and get over it.

[revat619]

Some of the founding fathers were "Christians" however most of them were Theists. Benjamin Franklin was even quoted as specifically not being of the Christian faith. This is fact.

While the term "god" is referenced or implied it is simply theistic in origin and not expressly Christian.This is also specifically noted by the founding fathers on various occasions. Theism and Christianity are NOT one in the same although they do share some of the same attributes.

Note: When i use the term Christian/Christianity, i'm referring to the purest/original meaning of the word.

[RickyS13.]

/end jesus and religion thread

THERE ARE FORUMS FOR THIS, search google and end your rants. This is retarded. I believe in myself and that hasn't failed me yet.

[revat619]

/end jesus and religion thread

THERE ARE FORUMS FOR THIS, search google and end your rants. This is retarded. I believe in myself and that hasn't failed me yet.


You do realize that this is the "LOUD NOISES" section where these sorts of topics are supposed to be discussed right?

"LOUD NOISES A place for political mudslinging, Pro/Anti legalization, gay marriage debate, Gun control rants, etc. If it's political, controversial, or hotly debated, it goes here. No regular Off-Topic stuff allowed. READ THE RULES BEFORE POSTING!"

I'd say religion is hotly debated and pretty darn controversial....probably one of the most controversial topics in the history of humanity...:rolleyes:

[kingkilburn]

Again, that is a huge generalization. While they MAY all believe that (and some do, but with "conditions"..again not Biblical), how they all carry out what the guy actually said( if at all) is ENTIRELY different. So they are not all the same group of people.

There is only one criteria for being a Christian. The belief that Jesus Christ died for your salvation and was resurrected three days later. That it it. There is no valid argument around this. Anything you claim is bigotry on your own part.



The Gospels were first hand accounts (eye witnesses) written from their perspectives. Some experiences over lap while others do not, however the message of Jesus as Lord, his death and resurrection for salvation (the foundational belief of true Christianity) is exactly the same.

No. Just no.
The gospel written the closest so Jesus was something like 80 years AFTER his death, at best. The rest are in the area of 300 years later. That is historical fact. I need no faith believe that. Nothing you say will change these facts.


As for the census, yes the decree for a "census" was made but as you said it "never happened" because what was actually being carried out under the guise of a census was the mass genocide of the first born jewish sons because of what was told to Augusts Ceasar that a "king would rise from Israel". Hence the reason they fled to Egypt. None of the other gospels had to place his birth there because it was already done in the prophetic book of Isaiah where it says the Messiah will come from the city and lineage of David (David's birthplace of Bethlehem and his bloodline)

This is just a load of shit. There is no historical evidence for any of that. If you would like we can really get into why Jesus could never have been the messiah. I can start with this, the kingly bloodline is passed down through the FATHER'S lineage. Whether you think his father was a god or a carpenter it doesn't matter because neither had the blood of king David. Being the son of god is not in any way shape or form a criteria for being the Messiah.


This is NOT Biblical which goes back to my point that the Bible and "Christianity" have been grossly manipulated and misinterpreted throughout history. The Bible gives VERY clear instructions as to how "Christians" are to conduct themselves IF they are read in the correct context.


The bible gives instructions on how JEWS are to live their life. One of these rules is that any person claiming to have new or different rules from god should be killed on sight because there will be no new rules.

I'm not trying to "convert" you or make you believe that everything out of the Bible is true, however what i am saying is that MANY religions who claim to be followers of Christ and view the Bible as God's word aren't following what it says at all OR they're completely manipulating what it says for their own personal gain.

Your actions and words are jiving here buddy.

[kingkilburn]

Judaism 101: Mashiach: The Messiah (http://www.jewfaq.org/mashiach.htm)

Please read this. This is what Jews believe on the subject and they had 5,000 years to ponder it not to mention it is their book to start with.

[revat619]

There is only one criteria for being a Christian. The belief that Jesus Christ died for your salvation and was resurrected three days later. That it it. There is no valid argument around this. Anything you claim is bigotry on your own part.

This is not the only criterion. The word Christian literally means "to be christ like or a disciple of Christ" Like i told you before, the term Christian was originally given to people who not only believed in his death and resurrection for salvation BUT ALSO actually followed his teachings. If a group believes in him for salvation, but does not follow his teachings, then by the original definition of the word, they are not Christian, but something else. This is a valid argument. Look up the origin of the word Christian and where it was first used historically.





No. Just no.
The gospel written the closest so Jesus was something like 80 years AFTER his death, at best. The rest are in the area of 300 years later. That is historical fact. I need no faith believe that. Nothing you say will change these facts.


I didn't say they were written while he was alive. They are a record of eye witness accounts recorded by historians and one disciple (John). I never said anything about faith either. Where did that come from?


This is just a load of shit. There is no historical evidence for any of that. If you would like we can really get into why Jesus could never have been the messiah. I can start with this, the kingly bloodline is passed down through the FATHER'S lineage. Whether you think his father was a god or a carpenter it doesn't matter because neither had the blood of king David. Being the son of god is not in any way shape or form a criteria for being the Messiah.

Actually the blood line from Abraham to David to Joseph is recorded entirely through the father's lineage. I wont type out every name unless you'd like me to, but it's a total of 72 generations. As for the son of god being a criterion for the Messiah, you're right, however where Judiasm and Christianity split is the belief that Jesus was in fact that person. The arguments then arise over what the books of Isaiah and Jeremiah were referring too



The bible gives instructions on how JEWS are to live their life. One of these rules is that any person claiming to have new or different rules from god should be killed on sight because there will be no new rules.


This is why you have to read both the old and new testament. I wont get into all the stuff about being under a "new covenant" and no longer living under "the law" and what that all means, but basically in the new testament Christ's death and resurrection do a way with the differentiation between jews and gentiles (non jews) and it becomes those who believe and those who don't and how "believers aka followers of christ, should conduct themselves.


Your actions and words are jiving here buddy.

What are you talking about? Not once have a talked about faith or said anything remotely close to trying to convert someone in anyway shape or form. Hell, i haven't even mentioned my personal religious beliefs. My point this whole time is that the term Christian nowadays is an umbrella term and saying that you can't tolerate them is vague and a huge generalization because the term includes mulitple groups of people with glaring fundamental differences. If you don't like Catholics, ok. If you don't like mormons, ok. If you don't like protestants, and so on so forth, ok. But be specific. They're all entirely different, they do not conduct themselves the same, they don't practice all of the same things and despite what you think, they don't all have the same requirements for salvation.

[revat619]

Judaism 101: Mashiach: The Messiah (http://www.jewfaq.org/mashiach.htm)

Please read this. This is what Jews believe on the subject and they had 5,000 years to ponder it not to mention it is their book to start with.

Dude even jews argue over that themselves. Which is why you have those who are still waiting for the messiah and those who believe he came in the form of Jesus. There's messianic judiasm, hasidic judiasim, orthodox judiasm, rabbinic judiasm, and probably more, but those i know for sure. And while they share some of the same beliefs, they have some very fundamental differences.

[kingkilburn]

You refute everything with the same garbage the church regurgitates. All your answers are in that book but you don't wish to read it you wish to "interpret" it.

Granted you write better than most but your arguments are just the same.


Please. Please. Please. Go read the Talmud and Torah, then decide if you believe in God and further whether or not Jesus was the Messiah. They lived, they wrote, they have studied it for 5000 years.

[revat619]

You refute everything with the same garbage the church regurgitates. All your answers are in that book but you don't wish to read it you wish to "interpret" it.

That's just it, i have read it. Pretty extensively actually. Which is why i have such an issue with the way the term Christian is used so loosely today, the way "the Church" (and there are several because that term is messed up too) has used religion for political and financial gain, and the way many who claim to be "christians" conduct themselves. Whether people believe he is the messiah or not is up to them, but that aside if people even claimed to follow what He said and actually read what he said in it's entirety they'd know that he NEVER condoned any of the atrocities that we see in "the church" today. There are some whom i have encountered who practice it correctly (following what Christ actually taught and actually trying to live it) and those people are some of the coolest, nicest people i've ever met, but there are many many many who claim to, but clearly don't have a clue and like you said, those people are horribly close minded, bigoted, and i can't stand to be in a room with them.


Granted you write better than most but your arguments are just the same.

That's cool and thank you....i think. lol We can agree to disagree. :bow:


Please. Please. Please. Go read the Talmud and Torah, then decide if you believe in God and further whether or not Jesus was the Messiah. They lived, they wrote, they have studied it for 5000 years.

I have read them. However, what i choose to believe or not believe within the realms of Christianity, Judaism, Islam or any religion for that matter isn't important. I don't think any of our personal religious beliefs/practices are really relevant to this discussion. I'm really just talking about the usage of a word.

Regardless, this has been a great debate. :bow:

[kingkilburn]

You may disagree with how some Christians live their lives but that doesn't change the fact that they believe their repentance to Jesus the anointed will save their immortal soul.

That is the only qualifier to fit under the umbrella.

[revat619]

You may disagree with how some Christians live their lives but that doesn't change the fact that they believe their repentance to Jesus the anointed will save their immortal soul.

That is the only qualifier to fit under the umbrella.

There are several religions under the umbrella of "christianity" that believe that "their repentance to Jesus the anointed" is not enough to save a person. The three most well known are mormons, jehovah's witnesses, and orthodox catholics.

The bottom line is today people use the word Christian as a blanket term, but in actuality and historically, the term denotes a very specific group of people with very specific ideologies.

Today, yeah, any religion that so much as mentions Jesus is considered Christian, but that is incorrect. Will that change? Of course not, but just because a huge misconception is accepted by the masses, doesn't mean it's accurate. All i was trying to do was shed some light on that.

[BarrigaS14]

I never said the constitution itself mentioned God. Someone else did. However, a prayer was said at the signing of and ratification of our constitution. The Christian God was a huge part of the founding of our country. Our founders were fleeing religious persecution. That's why it is not in the actual constitution. To say they were mostly atheist is absurd.

Couple of things. The "Founding Fathers" of America were the people that wrote the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. The Puritans on the other hand wanted to be part of England still. They did NOT want a separation from their country. Now, what is interesting, is that they were not the only ones to settle in America. There were farmers here prior seeking to raise crop and send it back. So if you think Puritans were founding fathers because they were here first...then...shouldn't we be praying to money since the farmers came here to make money?

Now back to your thinking...if the ruler of the country at that time proceeds to have a war and people die, then those die under that leaders religion? So every Christian president the US has had and had a war in, everyone that has died, is due to a Christian belief? That makes no sense at all...

[kingkilburn]

It IS a blanket term. Since it's inception there have always been multiple major groups and a plethora of splinter groups in Christianity. They argue over the details but they all still worship the same dude hanging on the crucifix at the front of the church.

[theicecreamdan]

Maybe if you repeat it a few more times somebody will accept your truth. Until then, you're over simplifying.

[Walperstyle]

lol, minions

[ryandh]

two words...christopher Hitchens.

I think this clip says it all, and nothing more needs to be said.

Why Christianity is Impossible to Believe (Christopher Hitchens) - YouTube (http://youtu.be/SH2NrjHK32g)

[SR240DET]

two words...christopher Hitchens.

I think this clip says it all, and nothing more needs to be said.

Why Christianity is Impossible to Believe (Christopher Hitchens) - YouTube (http://youtu.be/SH2NrjHK32g)

Yes, arguing about and dedicating your life to the interpretations of a bunch of desert nomad fictional stories isn't how humanity will prosper.

[ryandh]

Yes, arguing about and dedicating your life to the interpretations of a bunch of desert nomad fictional stories isn't how humanity will prosper.

So just except religion and everything that comes from it? Fuck that. Athiests are among the top to be descriminated against in the US, even more so than racism or sexism, so why would you not want to question it, and refute it?

and this video,"why I hate religion but love jesus" makes no sense. Because of jesus we have organized religion. Just like every other monotheistic belief, a 'god' or gods are the reason for it (organized religion). Because of RELIGION, things like 9/11 happen; so letting theist have their way and try to convert people to their belief system isn't how humanity will prosper.

[SR240DET]

So just except religion and everything that comes from it? Fuck that. Athiests are among the top to be descriminated against in the US, even more so than racism or sexism, so why would you not want to question it, and refute it?

and this video,"why I hate religion but love jesus" makes no sense. Because of jesus we have organized religion. Just like every other monotheistic belief, a 'god' or gods are the reason for it (organized religion). Because of RELIGION, things like 9/11 happen; so letting theist have their way and try to convert people to their belief system isn't how humanity will prosper.


I'm agreeing with you and Hitchens. I was trying to point out how ridiculous it is that people dedicate their life to interpreting how the book in the abrahamic religions should dictate their life. The desert nomads and fictional bit was a key indicator ( the origin of these fair tails).

[ryandh]

I'm agreeing with you and Hitchens. I was trying to point out how ridiculous it is that people dedicate their life to interpreting how the book in the abrahamic religions should dictate their life. The desert nomads and fictional bit was a key indicator ( the origin of these fair tails).

well...Don't I feel stupid lol.

[RurouniMidnight]

I agree with some parts of the video although it is a little extreme. I feel its major points are true that religion isn't the most important part of being a Christian because religion or doing acts and making laws to follow thinking that will make you righteous or "good in the eyes of God" actually could hinder you from what really matters, believing in and having that personal relationship with Jesus the only way to get to the father God. It even says in the bible that satan loves religion. Don't get me wrong im not opposed to religion but some people and churches go about it the wrong way and misuse it alienating people and misleading them from the true point.

[kingkilburn]

Of course Satan loves religion. He's the angel that loved man more than God. He gave man true knowledge of his existence and wished for him to live forever in paradise.

The things you learn when you REALLY read the bible. lol

[SR240DET]

Of course Satan loves religion. He's the angel that loved man more than God. He gave man true knowledge of his existence and wished for him to live forever in paradise.

The things you learn when you REALLY read the bible. lol

HAHA, and killed far less people than god.

[kingkilburn]

Name a single person killed by Satan in the entire new testament. lol

[SR240DET]

Name a single person killed by Satan in the entire new testament. lol

That I can't do,I don't think he killed a single person, satan may be the way to go if you want to warship a omnipotent being, LOL.

[kingkilburn]

Hail Satan!

[SR240DET]

We've been misled, our true father lies beneath our feet and hell is in the clouds, Hail Satan!

[Devius]

This is why im a proud atheist. Religion is such bs its not even funny. Its people looking for a scapegoat to do bad things, then go to a church for a clean slate. U wanna find the largest group of bullshitters? Go to a church. Biggest group of sinners? Go to a church. Most judgemental grouo of people? Go to a church. Personally, believing in god is like believing in peter pan. Just cuz I buy peter pan peanut butter, dont make peter pan real. And just cuz u read a book of fairy tales, dont make them real.

[redline racer510]

So just except religion and everything that comes from it? Fuck that. Athiests are among the top to be descriminated against in the US, even more so than racism or sexism, so why would you not want to question it, and refute it?

and this video,"why I hate religion but love jesus" makes no sense. Because of jesus we have organized religion. Just like every other monotheistic belief, a 'god' or gods are the reason for it (organized religion). Because of RELIGION, things like 9/11 happen; so letting theist have their way and try to convert people to their belief system isn't how humanity will prosper.

The people that committed 9/11 where hardly Muslim. They may have claimed they did it in the name of Islam or Allah but what they did before would show the contrary. Lets see, a devout "muslim" spent money at a strip club, then went to a sex shop where he bought sex toys then went to a bar and purchased large amounts of alcohol where they then paid for a hotel and pulled out large sums of money which was later found out to pay prostitutes. Why would they do that if they knew they were going to have 72 virgins, lol. Doesn't sound too Islamic to me. Just because someone claims to do something in the name of god or religion does not mean it was the intended purpose. In reality the media likes to cram this into our mind giving us the idea that ALL Muslims think or do things like this when in fact they represent a very small population of less than .001 percent

[SR240DET]

The people that committed 9/11 where hardly Muslim. They may have claimed they did it in the name of Islam or Allah but what they did before would show the contrary. Lets see, a devout "muslim" spent money at a strip club, then went to a sex shop where he bought sex toys then went to a bar and purchased large amounts of alcohol where they then paid for a hotel and pulled out large sums of money which was later found out to pay prostitutes. Why would they do that if they knew they were going to have 72 virgins, lol. Doesn't sound too Islamic to me. Just because someone claims to do something in the name of god or religion does not mean it was the intended purpose. In reality the media likes to cram this into our mind giving us the idea that ALL Muslims think or do things like this when in fact they represent a very small population of less than .001 percent

cite your source please.

[ryandh]

The people that committed 9/11 where hardly Muslim. They may have claimed they did it in the name of Islam or Allah but what they did before would show the contrary. Lets see, a devout "muslim" spent money at a strip club, then went to a sex shop where he bought sex toys then went to a bar and purchased large amounts of alcohol where they then paid for a hotel and pulled out large sums of money which was later found out to pay prostitutes. Why would they do that if they knew they were going to have 72 virgins, lol. Doesn't sound too Islamic to me. Just because someone claims to do something in the name of god or religion does not mean it was the intended purpose. In reality the media likes to cram this into our mind giving us the idea that ALL Muslims think or do things like this when in fact they represent a very small population of less than .001 percent

Ok, really? where in my original post did I say the word 'muslim'? It doesnt matter what they believe in, what matters is that it was done in the name of religion, and done in the name of whatever 'god' they believe in, regardless of their actions prior to the event. They could be Christians, Roman Catholics, Protestants, Orthodox, Anglicans, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Sikhs, or Jews....take your pick, it doesnt matter what they believe in, it matters that they do these actions BASED on their religious beliefs.

Are you religious? And yes, that is a sincere question...

[Mrpopo]

Aren't Muslim extremist about to suicide bomb or something allowed to do those things right before? I think I heard that somewhere before

[Walperstyle]

^The best way to look at Islam is to compare the different flavors of Christians. Far too many people that warp or adjust the words of god to make things 'ok' to them. I belive Islam is wrong, but I can't point the finger without accepting the blame for being part of the same system of 'generalizing'.

We have crazy snake charming Christians...worse off, in the past, we Christians had the Crusades.

The problem is people in power, and the individual quest to figure out life.

Unfortunately, some people figure that killing a bunch of people will make them 'free'. That has nothing to do with religion.

example, Its easy to say a bunch of 'old jew money' is behind SOPA, when in reality, the problem is just old greed. Has nothing to do with race or religion.... its humanity.

You want to see most of the world problems disappear, eliminate greed and self righteousness. Then maybe we can work on some commandments, or whatever the pillars of islam say, lol.

[redline racer510]

Aren't Muslim extremist about to suicide bomb or something allowed to do those things right before? I think I heard that somewhere before


I dont know where you heard that they were allowed to conduct themselves in the way they acted the way they did, but in Islam they violated some huge and I mean huge Islamic laws the only thing left to do after what they did is to pretty much denounce Islam just to give some perspective. As for the gentlemen that wants me to cite my sources, this is first hand experience (traveled the length of the us and the majority of the middle east and europe) for the .001 percent it is figurative speech basically the ones that do commit acts such as 9/11 are very few in number but unfortunately are the ones portrayed to represent Islam. In the Qur'an it says and I quote "if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole humanity: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the whole humanity"(surah5:verse32).

[kingkilburn]

Redline, what makes you think you are the master of religious denomination categorizing?

The fucking guys yell praise Allah while blowing shit up. I think I'll go with calling them Muslim.

[redline racer510]

kingkil you are quick to label people take it down a notch. I don't think I am the specialist of anything I just use common sense which apparently isn't so common these days. Why dont you quit jumping the gun and take it easy you don't like something I am saying fine, but don't crack wise ass comments. BTW saying praise Allah doesn't make them Muslim at all, in this case just because it looks and quacks like a duck does not make it a duck just an elaborate duck costume.

[kingkilburn]

Again. What makes you the master of religious denomination categorizing?

The rest of the world's Muslims considers them Muslim even if they don't agree with their interpretation of the faith.

If you don't like my rebuttal either prove why you are the authority on the subject here or stop using that as the crux of your argument.



P.S.
If you want to shorten my sn go with Kilburn please. That really my name as much as people here don't seem to believe it. lol

[ryandh]

"if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole humanity: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the whole humanity"(surah5:verse32).

I like how quoting something from a book makes it factual OR correct lol.

And as Lord Voldemort once said in the Sorcerer's Stone,
"There is no good and evil, there is only power, and those too weak to seek it..."


You better live by it and believe in it, and if you don't, you'll burn in hell for eterinty...even though I created you in my own image and I love you, but if you don't love me back and worship me, seriously, I'll fuckin burn you in hell forever HAHAHA.
Religion- what a crock.

[kingkilburn]

God is the worst girlfriend ever.

[kingkilburn]

Psalm 137:9

Best verse from the bible bar none. Totally sums up the religion.

[redline racer510]

I would really like to see these Muslims claiming that the suspects of 9/11 are Muslim. Saying Allahuakbar (God is great) is not an implication of being Muslim, their are many other attributes stated in their holy book that are needed to be met in order to be a Muslim. You are implying that I am a master of religious denomination categorizing yet you are the one saying "he yelled out praise Allah which makes them Muslim", so let me ask YOU Kilburn, what makes you the master of religious denomination categorizing? I really want to get back to the subject at hand rather than trying to prove something you deny even if the proof was laid out in front of you.

BTW sorry for not calling you by the correct name.

[redline racer510]

I like how quoting something from a book makes it factual OR correct lol.

And as Lord Voldemort once said in the Sorcerer's Stone,
"There is no good and evil, there is only power, and those too weak to seek it..."


You better live by it and believe in it, and if you don't, you'll burn in hell for eterinty...even though I created you in my own image and I love you, but if you don't love me back and worship me, seriously, I'll fuckin burn you in hell forever HAHAHA.
Religion- what a crock.

It doesn't have to be factual nor true. You are saying it is ok for people to kill others for no apparent reason, you don't agree with the quoted statement above because it cam from a religious book.


Voldemont is a bald idiot with Micheal Jackson syndrome too cheap to have his nose repaired, sounds like the kind of guy you would admire lol.

I live and believe it and hope you do the same or we might have homicidal zilvians running around. I don't believe god created us in his image because if that was the case it would be giving human attributes to god which is contradictory. You dont have to love god to pray to him.

[kingkilburn]

I would really like to see these Muslims claiming that the suspects of 9/11 are Muslim. Saying Allahuakbar (God is great) is not an implication of being Muslim, their are many other attributes stated in their holy book that are needed to be met in order to be a Muslim. You are implying that I am a master of religious denomination categorizing yet you are the one saying "he yelled out praise Allah which makes them Muslim", so let me ask YOU Kilburn, what makes you the master of religious denomination categorizing? I really want to get back to the subject at hand rather than trying to prove something you deny even if the proof was laid out in front of you.

BTW sorry for not calling you by the correct name.


I don't claim to be the master but when someone says Christian or Muslim you say no in spite of the evidence that is plain to see. I don't even think 9/11 was done by terrorist(an entirely different issue) but there is no doubt in my mind that those extremist paramilitary groups in the middle east are the Muslims they claim to be. That doesn't mean they are proper Muslims that follow the letter of the book but Muslims none the less.

No worries on the name.

I don't believe god created us in his image because if that was the case it would be giving human attributes to god which is contradictory.

Genesis 1:27


You can't pick and choose what to believe. It's all or nothing.


The implications of our creation(as I see it) and the trees of life and knowledge according to the old testament is that the only things separating man and god are the trees. We now posses all the knowledge god does(or the ability to), but not his form or the capabilities held in it.

[redline racer510]

You base your decision off of one statement. Your telling me one statement is enough to convince you someone is Christian,Muslim, Jew, Hindu etc. You cannot make your mind until you see ALL evidence. Yes they claim to be, it is not the same as being. Most of these guys are thugs that cant make a living otherwise, claiming the religion they grew up to follow is a way to recruit if you will in a country that has a Muslim majority. Listen I cant change your mind, if you want to believe there Muslim whatever, you just have to understand that your basing your decision on limited evidence.


What state of authority are you to say "all or nothing" you are an Atheist lol you believe in yourself, I believe what I want to believe and vice versa. Who ever said I am christian or I believe in the current bible?

[usdm180sx]

Sex is evil. Evil is sin. Sin is forgiven. So sex is in. Done.

[kingkilburn]

You base your decision off of one statement. Your telling me one statement is enough to convince you someone is Christian,Muslim, Jew, Hindu etc. You cannot make your mind until you see ALL evidence. Yes they claim to be, it is not the same as being. Most of these guys are thugs that cant make a living otherwise, claiming the religion they grew up to follow is a way to recruit if you will in a country that has a Muslim majority. Listen I cant change your mind, if you want to believe there Muslim whatever, you just have to understand that your basing your decision on limited evidence.


You will never ever see ALL the evidence. The question is what amount of evidence is required to make an informed decision. For me the fact that people are yelling glory to god while rushing to their deaths implies that they have faith that their soul is being taken care off.

What state of authority are you to say "all or nothing" you are an Atheist lol you believe in yourself, I believe what I want to believe and vice versa. Who ever said I am christian or I believe in the current bible?

The authority is the book. The claim is that the book is the word of god and god is unfoulable. You question the book or intentionally twist the words to serve your own ends and you are not honoring god. So it is all or nothing. You can question even a single letter or punctuation mark and you certainly can't just disregard what you don't like.

My faith or lack there of has no bearing on my ability to read and think critically.

You have greatly implied through the language you use and the arguments you make that you are in fact a protestant christian.

[redline racer510]

lol, survey says NOPE .....................but good try. Did you ever think those people rushing to their deaths' might be insane. Don't know about you but most religions do not preach to kill yourself and take along innocent people with you, dont know bout you but from what I read about Islam and speaking to them about this subject, they can't even comprehend this idea of doing such things, so I say they were insane because no SANE person would do such atrocious things .
You believe:
ISLAM/Christian's=terrorism
There is no such thing as a good Muslim/Christian. They are all the same and their religion preaches hate and breeds war mongers, did I get that right? Like you say "My faith or lack there of has no bearing on my ability to read and think critically "have yet to see any of this.

[kingkilburn]

The most you can claim is that it is your opinion that these particular Muslims were not properly following scripture.

Your sanity argument is hilarious. Believing an all knowing all powerful being cares to talk to and influence the life of a single person is insane. The idea that the universe is 5000 years old is insane.



I never said a thing about individual people. I know plenty of good Mormons but their faith is still crazy talk.

[usdm180sx]

The only person ever to follow the bible by the book was Jesus Christ. Then again, which Bible was it? The NIV, KJV, NKJV, HDTV, DVD, EPMD...? What proof is there that the dead sea scrolls are the word of God? There is none. You have to believe that through faith. Then again, the dead sea scrolls were all compiled and edited by men. Then there's Adam Smith...

I read the NIV version from cover to cover. There is a lot of good stuff in there. It helps me to be a better person. From what I have researched, the NIV has the least revisions and is the version that is most directly taken from the dead sea scrolls because I believe that the word of God comes from them. Plus it's easy to read :)

Pick a faith and live it if it helps you better your life. But don't tell me what I need to do to be straight with GOD. I know what I need to do. That's between him and I, and that's what I believe the video is trying to say.

[AdamR]

The terrorists didn't commit the acts on 9/11 because they hate Christians or want to kill those who aren't Muslims. They did it because of the US support for Israel, who has done some pretty bad things in the name of religion.

[kingkilburn]

How about it was the old testament as it has been since it was first written down. There only are two versions and they only differ by one letter.

Jesus most definitely did not follow the book and if you think you can do the same and be "straight with god" maybe you need to reread it.

[McMahon]

Saw this on facebook a week or so ago, loved it.

[s14fbs]

leo stirring up shit on a forum near you

est 2010

[aristrutin]

This is a car forum. Not a religion forum.

[revat619]

This is a car forum. Not a religion forum.

LOUD NOISES A place for political mudslinging, Pro/Anti legalization, gay marriage debate, Gun control rants, etc. If it's political, controversial, or hotly debated, it goes here. No regular Off-Topic stuff allowed. READ THE RULES BEFORE POSTING!


It helps to read....

[redline racer510]

Mr. Kilburn your assumptions about my belief are pretty wild. Do you think I believe the world is 5000 years old, NO. How do I know if those people were Muslim or not, because I know enough about Islam that I can confidently say they weren't Muslim. Have you read the entire old testament? Are you sure there are only two whose only differences are a single letter?

[ryandh]

Mr. Kilburn your assumptions about my belief are pretty wild. Do you think I believe the world is 5000 years old, NO. How do I know if those people were Muslim or not, because I know enough about Islam that I can confidently say they weren't Muslim. Have you read the entire old testament? Are you sure there are only two whose only differences are a single letter?

I have a couple questions, and if you could, please give yes or no answers as thats all they require.

1. Are you religious? and If so, what religion do you consider to practice?
2. Do you consider the bible to be an accurate representation of what god thinks and provides a moral compass for humans to live by?
3. Is there such thing as 'Free will'?

We'll start with those three, and please, they are yes or no questions, so feel free to explain, as long as there is a yes or no answer.

[redline racer510]

1. yes
2.no
3.yes

[delado]

This is a car forum. Not a religion forum.

It's fucktards like you that make Florida look like a 3rd world country.

[ryandh]

1. yes
2.no
3.yes

Which religion?

So if your religious, why do you not believe in the 'book of the lord'?
And also, believing in 'Free will' smiply implies that god is not all powerfull.

[kingkilburn]

Mr. Kilburn your assumptions about my belief are pretty wild. Do you think I believe the world is 5000 years old, NO. How do I know if those people were Muslim or not, because I know enough about Islam that I can confidently say they weren't Muslim. Have you read the entire old testament? Are you sure there are only two whose only differences are a single letter?

I have said this far too many times. If you have even an ounce of faith you CAN NOT pick and choose what to believe in the bible.


You think you know enough. The fact is your claim that they aren't holds no more sway than mine that they are but the overwhelming opinion of the world is that they were.


Yes I have read it. Yes, in the original language it was written in the ONLY difference between the two versions there are is a single letter.

[Walperstyle]

Catholic, Protestant, Mormon, Anglican, Roman Catholic, Heutterite, Orthodox, Mennonite ... I'm thinking you really can believe what you want with the bible.

Nice to have experts in here though. Everything is left and right, cut and dry isn't it.

The bible isn't an answer key, its a way of life. ..with old scripture, written by very different people from many different backgrounds.

that said, it doesn't say dinosaurs didn't exist, gays should be banished, the earth is flat, the sun revolves around the earth. It doesn't even denounce evolution either. We assume it does. Through science, we are only starting to figure out the fabric of space and time, and dimensions. 'God', is on a completely different realm then we are. He may have created us in his own image, but it doesn't mean that didn't take a billion years. 7 days? maybe... but who wrote that and what does 7 days mean in 'god time'.

We will destroy ourselves many times over before we figure it out. I believe the bible can teach you to love life. Its been a few years sense I've gone over it, and I appear in church maybe once a month at best... It doesn't mean I try to treat others like Jesus did. Remember; Jesus talked to prostitutes, diseased people, and criminals like they were brothers, because they are. He also 'turned water into wine' with his brothers... sounds like he was a pretty cool hippy to me.


Yes I have read it. Yes, in the original language it was written in the ONLY difference between the two versions there are is a single letter.

You understand Greek, Aramaic, Hebrew...or what?

[kingkilburn]

Creation of the World - A Brief Biblical History (http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/246605/jewish/Creation-of-the-World.htm)

Moses wrote it.
A day is a day. That was never intended for some mystical interpretation.

[Walperstyle]

Moses was a man, and a mortal will never fully understand god. Moses also came before Jesus by a long shot. Where did Moses get his information from on the creation of earth? We know he got the commandments from god on a stone tablet.

also, in reference to Psalm 137, that was in reference to god 'cleansing' full cities of corrupt broken people? Also before Jesus if I remember.

Did you go to a Catholic church?

[kingkilburn]

If you actually read the bible you would know that it claims he got it straight from god and sat down and wrote about half the old testament even seeing his own death in the writings as he did it.

[Walperstyle]

going to make me work for this one, lol? I didn't believe it was actually written, but assumed being he held the commandments.

[jvsc91talon]

First of all, Hitler was not an atheist he was a roman catholic. No one has ever killed anyone in the name of atheism, sometimes bad people do bad things. On the other hand, do we really need to point out the hundreds of times in history when religion was the sole purpose behind mass murder, rape, child abuse, etc. The whole suicide bombing community is entirely due to religion, oh and how about child genital mutation, entirely religion. ALL historic religions were a man made attemp of primitive people trying to explain things they didnt understand, and the newer more retarded religions(Mormon,Scientology etc) are obvious scams for financial improvement. If the bible was "breathed" through god, how come it has such little relevance to modern civilization? Show me 1 passage from the bible that couldnt have been written by a primitive man, not 1 mention of electicity or DNA or dinosaurs or a round earth or any detailed mention of the universe, from a supposed omniscient being in the sky. The bible is so laughably false i find it outrageous that so many people in the 21st century still believe its nonsense. Imagine what could have been accomplished or how much more advanced we would be if we gave up all the fairy tales called religion along time ago.

[Nicelyphe]

^^^ Win. Let's skip all the bs and get onto reality here.

[jvsc91talon]

Genesis is the best book to refute the bible. On the first day god created light, but didnt make stars or the sun until the fourth day? Plants, grass, trees, etc were made on the 3rd day, but again, the sun wasnt created until the 4th day. So there goes the "day is not a day" theory. Why did a loving god tempt adam and eve with the "tree of knowledge" and then create the evil in which to inflict upon them? Why did god punish the serpent with crawling on his belly when it was the devil inside the serpent doing the bad, just like when jesus cast demons out and sent them into pigs who then jumped off a cliff. The bible has a obsession with punishing innocent things. Back on topic, when god kicked them out of eden they had to plow the soil themselves. Who taught them that when they didnt have to do that in eden? When cain killed able, who was he scared of killing him when there was only adam, eve and himself on earth. Who did cain marry when again it was just him and his 2 parents? There are so many different topics of how the bible is either false, immoral and just plain retarded that i can go on and on.

[Dany]

Jesus loves you :)

[jvsc91talon]

The real sad and evil part is, all the evil things that have occurred and are occurring today in the name of religion are just put off as misinterpretation of their holy book by believers. But if you wanna be real, they arent reading it wrong, they did exactly what their god told them to do through their bible, if you choose to follow the bible why are you choosing only what you think is moral or right. If you say god is real, god says the punishment for breaking his 10 commandments is death, among the MANY other petty "crimes" are punishable by stoning or death. Who are you to call yourself a believer if you are picking and choosing what to follow. This book not only supports but condons slavery, rape, murder, human sacrifice, sexism and racism. I wonder if you christians are aware of "It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid." (Luke 16:17 NAB) Or “For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 5:18-19 RSV) Modern christians are fake christians. I also find it comical that christians are so extremely against gays when their "messiah" never mentioned a word of it. God talked about abolishing gays in the OLD testament, you know the one you guys dont follow no more when your called on bullshit but only when it serves you.

[jvsc91talon]

Jesus loves you :)

Tell that to the holocaust victims and their families, you know, the ones who were the chosen and "protected" ones of god. I wonder if god was in the ovens with them? God can part seas for the historical jews but he cant turn the gas off???

[jvsc91talon]

oh and to all you benny hinn and pat robertson 700 club fans, if "godly men" are healing people how come they cant heal amputees, down syndrome, autism, and the many other INCURABLE diseases and illness. If jesus was so loving, why didnt he heal blindness instead of a few blind people? The power of healing and miracles are just as fake and absurd as the powers of ms. cleo , john edward, and silvia browne. Again, "magic, demonic possesion, sorcery" are all failed attempts of primitive man trying to explain things they dont understand. Ask the victims of the 2007 Virginia Tech massacre if they agree that the mother of the shooter did the right thing by bringing her son to a priest for an "exorcism" instead of seeking doctors help for his MENTAL ILLNESS(not demonic possesion.)

[Dany]

Tell that to the holocaust victims and their families, you know, the ones who were the chosen and "protected" ones of god. I wonder if god was in the ovens with them? God can part seas for the historical jews but he cant turn the gas off???

everything happens for a reason bro.. dont ask me.. just cuz i said Jesus loves you doesnt mean i have all the answers to ur question.. jews went against Jesus and killed him but it just had to happen that way cuz he died for our sins he gave us a second chance.. why are all these innocent ppl being killed? idk but God knows.. theirs bad ppl out their were not all good.. thats where the devil comes in and works his ways on earth.. as days pass its getting worse and God can save u

[Dany]

oh and to all you benny hinn and pat robertson 700 club fans, if "godly men" are healing people how come they cant heal amputees, down syndrome, autism, and the many other INCURABLE diseases and illness. If jesus was so loving, why didnt he heal blindness instead of a few blind people? The power of healing and miracles are just as fake and absurd as the powers of ms. cleo , john edward, and silvia browne. Again, "magic, demonic possesion, sorcery" are all failed attempts of primitive man trying to explain things they dont understand. Ask the victims of the 2007 Virginia Tech massacre if they agree that the mother of the shooter did the right thing by bringing her son to a priest for an "exorcism" instead of seeking doctors help for his MENTAL ILLNESS(not demonic possesion.)

why are u so against God bro? the world is not ment to be perfect. were not God so were not perfect were human and we have a path to choose.. its ur life u can do watevr u want but just give him a chance.. he died for u and gave u chance..

[Dany]

First of all, Hitler was not an atheist he was a roman catholic. No one has ever killed anyone in the name of atheism, sometimes bad people do bad things. On the other hand, do we really need to point out the hundreds of times in history when religion was the sole purpose behind mass murder, rape, child abuse, etc. The whole suicide bombing community is entirely due to religion, oh and how about child genital mutation, entirely religion. ALL historic religions were a man made attemp of primitive people trying to explain things they didnt understand, and the newer more retarded religions(Mormon,Scientology etc) are obvious scams for financial improvement. If the bible was "breathed" through god, how come it has such little relevance to modern civilization? Show me 1 passage from the bible that couldnt have been written by a primitive man, not 1 mention of electicity or DNA or dinosaurs or a round earth or any detailed mention of the universe, from a supposed omniscient being in the sky. The bible is so laughably false i find it outrageous that so many people in the 21st century still believe its nonsense. Imagine what could have been accomplished or how much more advanced we would be if we gave up all the fairy tales called religion along time ago.

Give God a chance :) what did he ever do to u? christianity is not religion bcuz its not made up christianity is the real thing.. its all about faith bro if ur negative all the time u cant accomplish nothing. nothing!

[jvsc91talon]

Things dont happen for a "reason" they happen because they happen. Hahaha so your saying that god punished the jews during the holocaust because you think they betrayed and killed jesus? Im not sure if your aware but god sent his son on a suicide mission from the start, he was meant to die. I have 1 question for you or other belivers if they want to answer. Approximately how many years has man been on earth? The bible suggests less than 10,000 years, but now due to modern scientific research that is completely false. So thats where we get the "day isnt a day" nonsense. Well according to one of the very very few christian scientist, who is very well known and appreciated and happens to be head of the human genome project thinks man could have been here a little less than 100,000 years. What do you think?

[jvsc91talon]

Allah and Krishna never did anything to you but you claim they arent real. Have you given them a chance? Christianity is just as much included in the definition of religion as your god is included in a club as such members as zeus, apollo, santa clause, tooth fairy and leprechauns. Why do you feel that "faith" is good? Apply faith to anything but religion and you belong in a mental hospital. If i say i really believe that i am the fastest person in the world and i could win every race i tried even though i dont fit the appearence of a racer and i say that i have faith in my belief, you would tell me i need mental help. Look bro, i know your scared of what lies after death we all are, but that doesnt mean you have to cling to something that cant possibly be real for comfort. Trust me when i tell you faith is bad in all circumstances.

[jvsc91talon]

Just to be clear, i havegiven him a chance, i was rasedin a christian home and chose to be a christian from the time i understood up until a few years ago.

[Dany]

Things dont happen for a "reason" they happen because they happen. Hahaha so your saying that god punished the jews during the holocaust because you think they betrayed and killed jesus? Im not sure if your aware but god sent his son on a suicide mission from the start, he was meant to die. I have 1 question for you or other belivers if they want to answer. Approximately how many years has man been on earth? The bible suggests less than 10,000 years, but now due to modern scientific research that is completely false. So thats where we get the "day isnt a day" nonsense. Well according to one of the very very few christian scientist, who is very well known and appreciated and happens to be head of the human genome project thinks man could have been here a little less than 100,000 years. What do you think?

no im not saying that ? why would he do that ?.. i dont really have to answer that question because why does science have to be right? just because they do research? ppl can call themselves christian but actoins speak louder than words and i believe science is wrong for different reasons.. u believe we actually came from monkeys? or germs or watever scientist say?

[Dany]

Allah and Krishna never did anything to you but you claim they arent real. Have you given them a chance? Christianity is just as much included in the definition of religion as your god is included in a club as such members as zeus, apollo, santa clause, tooth fairy and leprechauns. Why do you feel that "faith" is good? Apply faith to anything but religion and you belong in a mental hospital. If i say i really believe that i am the fastest person in the world and i could win every race i tried even though i dont fit the appearence of a racer and i say that i have faith in my belief, you would tell me i need mental help. Look bro, i know your scared of what lies after death we all are, but that doesnt mean you have to cling to something that cant possibly be real for comfort. Trust me when i tell you faith is bad in all circumstances.

their religion thats why their made up.. nope ur wrong are their buddy thats wat makes us different were not religious.. all these other gods and make believe things are made up by men.. faith is good.. hope is good if u do things without them or ur just negative or watevr ur not happy.. but would u want to be the fastest in the world? i dont think so cuz u just amde it up but theirs ppl out their that want to be and they can do it with hard work and believing in themselves.. someone out their is the fast in world right? why cant they be? if not they'll be one of the few fastest in the world but then again EVERYTHING HAPPENS FOR A REASON and God has ur life planned out but its ur life and u can always reject his way for ur life and choose ur own path.. and im not scared bro cuz i believe in him hes always with me and hes protecting me :) why should i trust u that faith is bad?

[Dany]

Just to be clear, i havegiven him a chance, i was rasedin a christian home and chose to be a christian from the time i understood up until a few years ago.

well what happened? science got in ur head?

[jvsc91talon]

no im not saying that ? why would he do that ?.. i dont really have to answer that question because why does science have to be right? just because they do research? ppl can call themselves christian but actoins speak louder than words and i believe science is wrong for different reasons.. u believe we actually came from monkeys? or germs or watever scientist say?[/QUOTE]

Why would he do that??? Oh idk, have you read the bible and read about the millions of people god bestowed his wrath upon for the most petty of things?
This statement shows how ignorant your view of evolution is. We came from a common ancestor. You say give god a chance but dont even know the other side of the arguement, typical christian hypocrite.

[QUOTE=Dany;4584356]their religion thats why their made up.. nope ur wrong are their buddy thats wat makes us different were not religious.. all these other gods and make believe things are made up by men.. faith is good.. hope is good if u do things without them or ur just negative or watevr ur not happy.. but would u want to be the fastest in the world? i dont think so cuz u just amde it up but theirs ppl out their that want to be and they can do it with hard work and believing in themselves.. someone out their is the fast in world right? why cant they be? if not they'll be one of the few fastest in the world but then again EVERYTHING HAPPENS FOR A REASON and God has ur life planned out but its ur life and u can always reject his way for ur life and choose ur own path.. and im not scared bro cuz i believe in him hes always with me and hes protecting me :) why should i trust u that faith is bad?

Ok so i would really like to hear your arguement on why islam and muhammad are made up and christianity and jesus are not, and please dont quote the bible cause muslims can do the same and both books were written by man. Faith and hope are 2 completely different things, faith is the word you guys tell others to have when you dont know the answers to questions. Im not negative at all, you dont believe in any god but the god of christianity and i am just like you, i just go 1 god further. If god has a plan for you then there is no free will. Tell me, what was gods plan for for the unborn fetus of a miscarriage, you think it will recognize its family in heaven or vise versa, or for a child born of a terminal illness that wont reach the age of 5? Was god punishing the parents for their sins by giving them a sick child? I guess god was right in Exodus 20:5 when he said you are punished for the sins of your father. You obviously dont get my being fast analogy. You are truly scared because you dont KNOW whats going do happen when you die because i dont, and you dont have any special powers or knowledge that i dont have. If he truly is real how about you pray for wealth, jesus said if you had faith the size of a mustard seed you can move mountains, im sure praying to wake up to a suitcase full of money under your bed shouldnt be that hard.

well what happened? science got in ur head?

No actually reason, evidence, rational thought, and common sense got into my head. Oh and by the way, i dont hate god, god isnt real. Do you hate unicorns? You still havent answered my question, how many years ago do you think humans came onto earth???

[Dany]

no im not saying that ? why would he do that ?.. i dont really have to answer that question because why does science have to be right? just because they do research? ppl can call themselves christian but actoins speak louder than words and i believe science is wrong for different reasons.. u believe we actually came from monkeys? or germs or watever scientist say?

Why would he do that??? Oh idk, have you read the bible and read about the millions of people god bestowed his wrath upon for the most petty of things?
This statement shows how ignorant your view of evolution is. We came from a common ancestor. You say give god a chance but dont even know the other side of the arguement, typical christian hypocrite.



Ok so i would really like to hear your arguement on why islam and muhammad are made up and christianity and jesus are not, and please dont quote the bible cause muslims can do the same and both books were written by man. Faith and hope are 2 completely different things, faith is the word you guys tell others to have when you dont know the answers to questions. Im not negative at all, you dont believe in any god but the god of christianity and i am just like you, i just go 1 god further. If god has a plan for you then there is no free will. Tell me, what was gods plan for for the unborn fetus of a miscarriage, you think it will recognize its family in heaven or vise versa, or for a child born of a terminal illness that wont reach the age of 5? Was god punishing the parents for their sins by giving them a sick child? I guess god was right in Exodus 20:5 when he said you are punished for the sins of your father. You obviously dont get my being fast analogy. You are truly scared because you dont KNOW whats going do happen when you die because i dont, and you dont have any special powers or knowledge that i dont have. If he truly is real how about you pray for wealth, jesus said if you had faith the size of a mustard seed you can move mountains, im sure praying to wake up to a suitcase full of money under your bed shouldnt be that hard.



No actually reason, evidence, rational thought, and common sense got into my head. Oh and by the way, i dont hate god, god isnt real. Do you hate unicorns? You still havent answered my question, how many years ago do you think humans came onto earth???

lol well relax bro dayumm i dont have a phd on being a christianity im only 18 so relax.. i would like to keep arguing bro but ive talked to ppl like u and it just doesnt stop im not backing out or anything i do know wat to say and im not scared or watevr to be "proven wrong".. you obviously didnt learn enough about bible cuz all ur questions could be answered by them and idk about u but i was raised a christian also and my mom taught me well.. i hope u find it in urself to give God a chance and he'll forgive you.. The truth will set u free.. The truth always comes out,, always.. God bless you brother

[kingkilburn]

Ugh.

Have you guys read anything in this thread?

I think the dead horse has been beaten enough.

[Pro ViZIon]

Dany is an idiot apparently?

[jvsc91talon]

Ugh.

Have you guys read anything in this thread?

I think the dead horse has been beaten enough.

Yea I have and you make lots of good points, I just wanted to add a few of my own. Plus, I think the debate of religion should always continue especially giving the amount of believers there are. But on a good note, atheism is the fastest growing minority in america right now.

[jvsc91talon]

Dany is an idiot apparently?

Umm... No I guess I would call it brainwashed, the main reason he is a christian is because mommy and daddy said he was. I wonder if he would be a christian if were born in Iraq or Pakistan?

[Corbic]

Ive been telling people this shit for years now. Religion has caused more harm and seperation among people than good. If you wanna believe in some all-powerful being creating the known universe, fine. But you shouldnt live your life by some book or what a group of people say.

I disagree. The problem is human nature. We all want to belong to unique groups and say "I am better than your group".

We divide our selves by Race, Gender, Sexual Preference, language, nation, continent, state, political ideology, economic ideology, preference in cars, global warming ect.

If everyone adopted one religion or belief set, with in 5 days we would be arguing over it. Look at Islam, while we westerner think "Islam is Islam" much of the strife going on in the Middle East today is various Islamic sects fighting one another, Sunnis, Shiites ect.

All Christians (just about) where Catholics at one time, but we couldn't leave it at that, soon we had Protestants, Puritans, Methodists, Evangelicals, Baptists, Quakers and everything else under the sun all the way up to Mormons.

The concept that "religion" is to blame is stupid, because at the end of the day, "religion" is run by people, and PEOPLE are to blame. If we'd all became atheists we'd just be killing each other in the name of Communism or Capitalism or in Genetic purity.

South Park was very accurate in their potral of a potentially atheistic world. We still would divide ourselves somehow.

SCIENCE DAMN YOU!

[Corbic]

They didn't kill them in the name of atheism. They killed them because they were murderous dictators.

The Nazis killed people in the name of Science and the future of humanity.

[Corbic]

Which religion?

So if your religious, why do you not believe in the 'book of the lord'?
And also, believing in 'Free will' smiply implies that god is not all powerfull.

You realize there are more religions out there than Christianity, right? To them, the Bible is meaningless.

You argument about Free Will is also weak.

Free Will implies you can do as you please. If you want to kill that chick, go do it. There is not some magical force stopping you. If we are talking about Christianity, then God gave you free will, so if you choose to sin, that is your fault. God did not give Angels or Demons free will, they must adhere to his every wish and you could even think of them as simply extensions of his manifested will.

You really need to understand the history of Christianity before you can start to babble about it.

Example, Jesus was not "God manifested as a human" until several hundred years after his death. He was just a Messiah, which is a profit or messenger of God.

Constantine, in order to legitimize Christianity before all of the Roman Empire made Jesus a "God". After all, the Emperor was in Roman society a living God, so how can you hold an executed criminal as higher than the Emperor if he too is not a god? Adds to the "Drama" as well, for here is a God who willingly died so that you would take notice of his message - a true martyr.

The Catholic Church is also what saved western civilization. Durning the fall of the Roman Empire they did their utmost to maintain historical documents, records, the ability to read and write and eventually the would form the backbone to stop the Islamic hordes from conquering Europe.

The Church also acted as the "UN" of sorts for all of Europe throughout the Dark and Middle ages.

Remember, just because men commit Sin in the name of God, does not mean that God and Sin does not exist.

[jvsc91talon]

The Nazis killed people in the name of Science and the future of humanity.

You sir are absolutely mistaken. Hitler made numerous quotes in speeches and in mein kampf that mentioned his belief in jesus. The belt buckle of a german nazi soldier had the words "god with us." Here is a quote from one of his speeches, "God the Almighty has made our nation. By defending its existence we are defending His work." They were on gods mission to exterminate the people who killed his savior.

[Corbic]

You sir are absolutely mistaken. Hitler made numerous quotes in speeches and in mein kampf that mentioned his belief in jesus. The belt buckle of a german nazi soldier had the words "god with us." Here is a quote from one of his speeches, "God the Almighty has made our nation. By defending its existence we are defending His work." They were on gods mission to exterminate the people who killed his savior.

Which they justified with Science and the Future of Humanity.


What is the Communists excuse? The Millions upon Millions killed in Russia (pre WWII), Polland and China because of Communism? They are purely atheistic.

Then again, if there is no God, who is to say killing people is wrong? I mean, they are just blocking our road to a better world, no?

[jvsc91talon]

Which they justified with Science and the Future of Humanity.


What is the Communists excuse? The Millions upon Millions killed in Russia (pre WWII), Polland and China because of Communism? They are purely atheistic.

Then again, if there is no God, who is to say killing people is wrong? I mean, they are just blocking our road to a better world, no?

You brought up nazis and say the motive behind the hatred for jews was science. Very ignorant statement that most christians use.I think it wouldnt take very long at all for people to realize that killing another human being is not ok without religion. I dont believe in a god and i certainly dont wanna harm anyone cause i think i wont have to pay for it after i die.

[kingkilburn]

The Nazis killed people in the name of Science and the future of humanity.

Wrong.

The Nazi government wanted to get rid of those deemed undesirable. They used whatever means available to justify what they wanted.

If you think eugenics is a legitimate science then you can rot in a cell with the other sociopaths who wish genocide on people.

[Corbic]

You brought up nazis and say the motive behind the hatred for jews was science. Very ignorant statement that most christians use.

The Nazis hated the Jews because they are the "other group". It was a tight nit subculture in Germany of "obviously" different people that the Nazis and Germans could easily blame and segregate.

They clearly used "science" to justify their beliefs in every corner of the "Nazi religion".

Personally I find you to ignorant at assume that A. I'm Christian and B. that Christians believe that.

Hating groups is human nature, it's called sociology. Strip away religion as an identifier and people will still find a reason to hate each other and justify that haterid.

[kingkilburn]

You still erroneously claimed that they murdered all those people in the name of science.


Your claim. Not theirs.

[ryandh]

can't we just grow up and stop pretending? Everyone knows that religion is one of the biggest mistakes the human species has ever created. Now that we(humans) are smart enough to realize it, people still don't admit it. People are too ashamed to admit they believe in such childish stories. Religion feeds off the poor and needy, the weak minded and the desperate; It's fucking disgusting what religion does to people.

[Dany]

Umm... No I guess I would call it brainwashed, the main reason he is a christian is because mommy and daddy said he was. I wonder if he would be a christian if were born in Iraq or Pakistan?

"Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing." Luke 23:34

[kingkilburn]

Well damn. If the man with the keys to heaven says I'm forgiven even through my ignorance I'm gonna do what I damn well please.

[Corbic]

Well damn. If the man with the keys to heaven says I'm forgiven even through my ignorance I'm gonna do what I damn well please.

That is not ignorance then, that would be deliberate.

To be forgiven you must also be repentant, not regretful.

[kingkilburn]

Well you see in this case I have hand picked a bible verse that suits me the same way Christians do. Don't rain on my parade. You could burn in hell for that.

[raz0rbladez909]

Since this is a religion thread I'd like to know what the religious views on dinosaurs are?
http://cdn.twentytwowords.com/wp-content/uploads/Jesus-and-dinosaur-e1299096274567-634x865.jpg

[redline racer510]

Love the Jesus employed by Jurassic park pic above.

[kingkilburn]

The conservative Christian spin is that god wanted to trick us into thinking the planet is older than it is by hiding bones in the ground for us to find. The bible puts the age of the universe at about 5-7k.



My reaction to this is:

boh92DrYEWs

[Corbic]

The conservative Christian spin is that god wanted to trick us into thinking the planet is older than it is by hiding bones in the ground for us to find. The bible puts the age of the universe at about 5-7k.


Source?

What is a "conservative christian"?

Is that a Christian that is Conservative, or a Conservative that is Christian?

Do you even know what a "Christian" is or how broad that group cuts? Do you think Mormons are Christians?

Are you saying that Jews and Muslims don't take the bible literally, its only "conservative Christians"

Ever heard of the Epic of Gilgamesh?

:l101:

[Corbic]

You still erroneously claimed that they murdered all those people in the name of science.


Your claim. Not theirs.

Does not mention God or Religion once,

Hitler displayed classic signs of prejudice. He decided that the Jews, who made up about 1% of Germany, were somehow to blame for Germany's loss of World War 1, and made them into a convenient scapegoat. He also held very stereotypic beliefs about the Jews, accusing them of being disloyal, untrustworthy, and not capable of being "true Germans." Although Jews had lived in Germany peacefully for a long time and had made positive contributions to the culture, suddenly, the rhetoric about them changed. Hitler began talking about the Jews as if they were a disease, something that needed to be wiped out. He repeatedly made statements that blamed the Jews for whatever problems Germany was having, and encouraged non-Jews to fear and distrust their Jewish colleagues and neighbors. This became official Nazi policy, resulting in Jews being segregated, forced to wear a yellow star, and ultimately sent off to concentration camps.

Hitler and the Nazis enforced a doctrine of "purity." They believed that only white people (preferably with Nordic features), were the ideal, and that these "Aryans" were the 'pure race' of Germans. Hitler lashed out at anyone who did not conform to this image and the Nazi policy was to eliminate the impure races (he created the myth that the Jews were a race, as well as a religion). Hitler also was the enemy of anyone who was not "perfect"-- in addition to killing more than 6 million Jews, he also ordered the deaths of people with mental retardation, dwarfism, etc. And while the Nazis saved their worst treatment for the Jews, they also persecuted many Christians who were believed to be enemies of the government, as well as Gypsies and other groups considered unfit for the new German empire. Hitler's policy was that all members of the groups he labeled as "undesirable" needed to be killed, in order to have a perfect country.

Another answer:

The Nazis blamed the Jews for every problem in the world and they accused the Jews of:
Being Communists
Causing World War 1
Profiteering in World War 1
Profiteering from the German Inflation
Causing the Great Depression
Causing Germany to lose World War 1 by fomenting unrest and revolution in Germany itself
Undermining German morals by encouraging prostitution and homosexuality
Ruining German art
Trying to dominate the whole world
From 1939 on Hitler accused the Jews of starting World War 2 (as part of a global conspiracy to destroy Germany and dominate the world)





Christopher Browning and many other historians see the killing of Jews in the Holocaust as part of a wider campaign to rid the world of 'Jewish Bolshevism'.


The media and the schools accepted and promoted Hitler's rhetoric. The Nazi Party was masterful at spreading propaganda, so even though there was no evidence that the Jews had done anything bad, it did not take long before the average German was repeating what Hitler had been saying. And although all of the accusations against the Jews were false, having one group that could be used as a scapegoat was very effective. Hitler was successful in persuading the vast majority of Germans that all the problems in Germany were caused by the Jews. And once this was the common belief, the next step was finding the right solution -- which meant getting rid of the Jews.

------------------------------------------------------------------

It has to be understood that there is a difference between the use of the Jews as a scapegoat, or as a political tool to unify the country and actually killing them (as the question asks).

Many (in fact most) western countries were prejudiced against the Jews, but it was the Nazis who did the killing, the reasons for this transcend mere antisemitism.
________________________________________________

Two other points that have been discussed in documentaries are:
1. His grandmother (father's mother) worked in a Jewish home when she was young. After she left the home she had a child out of wedlock (his father) and the assumption that the father was someone from that household was implied.

2. When Hitler was young he tried to make it as an artist but he had a tough time. Some of the establishments that he turned to for help (food, shelter, etc.) were run by Jewish families and he felt he was mistreated in those settings.

__________

It is not at all clear why having a Jewish grandparent (if he did) would have made Hitler want to kill Jews. In any case, Ian Kershaw, in Vol. 1 (Hybris, Penguin Books, 1998, pp. 7-9) of his highly acclaimed two volume biography of Hitler says that there is no evidence that Hitler had a Jewish grandparent.

Kershaw also says elsewhere that the earliest solid evidence of Hitler's antisemitism dates from 1916.

[kingkilburn]

Source?

What is a "conservative christian"?

Is that a Christian that is Conservative, or a Conservative that is Christian?

Do you even know what a "Christian" is or how broad that group cuts? Do you think Mormons are Christians?

Are you saying that Jews and Muslims don't take the bible literally, its only "conservative Christians"

Ever heard of the Epic of Gilgamesh?

:l101:

If there is a cross with a dead jew on it at the head of your church you are christian. I don't give two shits what your opinion on some specific sect is. Worshiping CHRIST is the only qualifier for CHRISTianity.



What does an old tale of a great flood have to do with this discussion?



EDIT
And you aren't getting a source for a widely held belief.

[kingkilburn]

Does not mention God or Religion once,




Are you trying to pull a red haring but twisting arguments?
No one claimed the Nazis killed in the name of god. You claimed they did it in the name of science. I called bullshit. How does that equate to them doing for god?

[Corbic]

If there is a cross with a dead jew on it at the head of your church you are christian. I don't give two shits what your opinion on some specific sect is. Worshiping CHRIST is the only qualifier for CHRISTianity.



What does an old tale of a great flood have to do with this discussion?

Wow you are one ignorant, angry fuck. Did a Preiset molest you?

[kingkilburn]

Nice.

No counter argument so you have to pull out the insults.

The more Zilvia changes the more it stays the same.

[Corbic]

Are you trying to pull a red haring but twisting arguments?
No one claimed the Nazis killed in the name of god. You claimed they did it in the name of science. I called bullshit. How does that equate to them doing for god?

Seems scientific to me.

Genetics, Check
Sociology, Check
Science of Economics, Check
Political Science, Check
Psychology, Check


Hell, they even invented a science to help justify and support what they where doing.

:eek2:

[Corbic]

Nice.

No counter argument so you have to pull out the insults.

The more Zilvia changes the more it stays the same.

You refused to answer a single question posed, and made an ignorant angry statement. I simply called you out on it, and asked yet another dodged question.

Your not a relation to Barney Frank by any chance?

[kingkilburn]

Hell, they even invented a science to help justify and support what they where doing.

Stating from an answer and working backwards is anything but scientific. You will always find what you are looking for when you start with an extremely biased opinion.


You refused to answer a single question posed, and made an ignorant angry statement. I simply called you out on it, and asked yet another dodged question.

Your not a relation to Barney Frank by any chance?

You don't get to sling insults without proof of my apparently wrong opinion.

And I'm not the least bit angry or ignorant.

[kingkilburn]

I like your style. Take a question, turn it on it's head, then attack people for sticking to the original question instead of your script.

[jvsc91talon]

Im just curious, have ANY of you read Mein Kampf? Because i have. Hitler many times clearly says that he is doing gods work.

[kingkilburn]

That book was a tool of indoctrination. Would you expect truth or words to sway sheep?

[TheWolf]

Wrong.

The Nazi government wanted to get rid of those deemed undesirable. They used whatever means available to justify what they wanted.

If you think eugenics is a legitimate science then you can rot in a cell with the other sociopaths who wish genocide on people.

Actually the nazi gov't was based on the aryan tribal race. The aryans were technologically superior tribe that brought law and gov't, along with social development to areas of europe during the dark/middle ages. In getting into the philosophical "nature vs nurture" argument, that aryan's felt they were of a superior genetic strain capable of leading and providing stable law and gov't to the planet. Their argument for this was that they were the only ones who had done it. Their rule was that to maintain this genetic edge, they were not allowed to mix race marry/procreate as that would dilute the race. The majority of what was the aryan tribe lies in modern day germany.

Now the nazi's also did not like the jews. The jews have the honor of being the only race that has been kicked out of every european nation at least twice. By kicked out, I mean if you were jewish, you were driven out by sword and pitchfork and told to never come back again. Not just germany, but england, france, italy, spain, etc. They've all had their mini holocausts. The jews would finance these countries and then charge them ridiculous interest rates with their goal of enslaving the king and populace to these loans. Germany had it's fair share of these loans and began a final solution to that problem. Do not think that it was only germany who had this "view". Great american icons felt the same way.

Henry Ford called the jews a plague upon society. He explains in his book called "the american jew" that jews do not come to a country in search of work but in search of exploitation. Jewish culture eschews manual labor by nature and seeks to utilize financial resources to cause other people to work for them. Ford does make his point well and the book is worth a good read.

President Theodore Roosevelt was also a believer in the aryan way. All that manifest destiny, and walk softly and carry a big stick. Their argument was that only germanic white americans had the capability to lead. He, along with ford believed that blacks were incapable of being governed. If they were, africa would have got it's act together by now. Along with jews knew nothing of work ethic. In 1905, he sent several representatives to japan. Found that the japanese were a dedicated, hard working race that were law abiding and titled them honorary aryans. (in WW2 the germans certainly agreed on his assessment) His push was to conquer the pacific/china and at that point then the white aryan would rule around the world. Britain was controlling india. If the US could get china and japan then the circle with russia would be complete.

Not that I'm a proponent for eugenics, but might I ask this question for you?

If 10 random children of all mixed races were abducted at birth and placed on a secluded island, knew nothing of race, would they all be able to become doctors with roughly the same time in education?

[redline racer510]

Actually the nazi gov't was based on the aryan tribal race. The aryans were technologically superior tribe that brought law and gov't, along with social development to areas of europe during the dark/middle ages. In getting into the philosophical "nature vs nurture" argument, that aryan's felt they were of a superior genetic strain capable of leading and providing stable law and gov't to the planet. Their argument for this was that they were the only ones who had done it. Their rule was that to maintain this genetic edge, they were not allowed to mix race marry/procreate as that would dilute the race. The majority of what was the aryan tribe lies in modern day germany.

Now the nazi's also did not like the jews. The jews have the honor of being the only race that has been kicked out of every european nation at least twice. By kicked out, I mean if you were jewish, you were driven out by sword and pitchfork and told to never come back again. Not just germany, but england, france, italy, spain, etc. They've all had their mini holocausts. The jews would finance these countries and then charge them ridiculous interest rates with their goal of enslaving the king and populace to these loans. Germany had it's fair share of these loans and began a final solution to that problem. Do not think that it was only germany who had this "view". Great american icons felt the same way.

Henry Ford called the jews a plague upon society. He explains in his book called "the american jew" that jews do not come to a country in search of work but in search of exploitation. Jewish culture eschews manual labor by nature and seeks to utilize financial resources to cause other people to work for them. Ford does make his point well and the book is worth a good read.

President Theodore Roosevelt was also a believer in the aryan way. All that manifest destiny, and walk softly and carry a big stick. Their argument was that only germanic white americans had the capability to lead. He, along with ford believed that blacks were incapable of being governed. If they were, africa would have got it's act together by now. Along with jews knew nothing of work ethic. In 1905, he sent several representatives to japan. Found that the japanese were a dedicated, hard working race that were law abiding and titled them honorary aryans. (in WW2 the germans certainly agreed on his assessment) His push was to conquer the pacific/china and at that point then the white aryan would rule around the world. Britain was controlling india. If the US could get china and japan then the circle with russia would be complete.

Not that I'm a proponent for eugenics, but might I ask this question for you?

If 10 random children of all mixed races were abducted at birth and placed on a secluded island, knew nothing of race, would they all be able to become doctors with roughly the same time in education?
Sounds like some pretty convincing evidence.

[jvsc91talon]

That book was a tool of indoctrination. Would you expect truth or words to sway sheep?

I understand your point, but even a 10 min. google search about Hitler would reveal his religious beliefs. He may have used it as a brainwashing tool to convince the masses, but that just goes to show how evil all religions are.

[kingkilburn]

Aryan race as the Nazis worshiped it is a myth. Aryans have a hell of a lot more to do with India than they do with a pristine white European people. The rest of what you said sounds like history told by antisemits.

[jvsc91talon]

No other religious person wants to stand up for god anymore???? Come on....Its fun arguing with you people!!! :)

[Xaser]

Is in spanish, but...

http://mepareceperverso.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/jesus_vs_papa.jpg

Translate are some like..

Jesus have a thorn Crown The Pope a Gold Crown
Jesus Wash your followers Feet The Pope Rule to kiss he hand
Jesus Pay Taxes The pope Collect Taxes
Jesus Love Kids The pope Protect who rapped them.
Jesus was poor the Pope Are awesome rich
Jesus Walk with a Stick The Pope in a gold & diamond Chair ( i dont know the word "for basculo")
Jesus pray for peace The pope Bless Dictators
Jesus Travel on feet or a Donkey The pope Travel in his own Merc Bullet Proof.

JESUS VS "the pope"

Teach with the example.



this is to mi... "say no more"

[jvsc91talon]

Ummm..... Yea i would rather not argue with a catholic, its WAY to easy!!!! lol

[jvsc91talon]

How about any mormons in here???? lol I love talking to you people!!! haha

[Corbic]

Ummm..... Yea i would rather not argue with a catholic, its WAY to easy!!!! lol

And what is so easy? Considering the Catholic Church is the corner stone of Western Civilization, preserved written history during the dark ages and is responsible for Christianity as a whole.

Oh I'm sure you just think your so clever.

[Corbic]

How about any mormons in here???? lol I love talking to you people!!! haha

Aren't you the little intolerant bigot.

Jealous at people who feel spiritually fulfilled?

[Corbic]

No other religious person wants to stand up for god anymore???? Come on....Its fun arguing with you people!!! :)

Look at this way.

Being an atheist is lame. If your right, you die and thats it. You are deleted.

But if you are wrong, you go to hell, cease to exist or are deleted according to most religions.....


So... what a great religion atheism is!

I truly feel only self centered immature idiots preach atheism. They are to "smart" after all to be duped and the have "all the answers".

*eyeroll*

[kingkilburn]

Atheism is not a religion.


Catholicism didn't preserve western culture, it brought it to its knees and nearly destroyed it. Monasticism wholly separate from the church preserved knowledge while the church did all it could to destroy it. The catholic church directly lead to the destruction of the eastern roman empire.

[kingkilburn]

I'm not backing him up in his open attacks and mockery but your statements aren't any better.

[BarrigaS14]

Look at this way.

Being an atheist is lame. If your right, you die and thats it. You are deleted.

But if you are wrong, you go to hell, cease to exist or are deleted according to most religions.....


So... what a great religion atheism is!

I truly feel only self centered immature idiots preach atheism. They are to "smart" after all to be duped and the have "all the answers".

*eyeroll*

Interesting...

"For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye."

[redline racer510]

I haven't met an atheist yet that tolerates others beliefs, every single one that I have met has a massive ego and daily drives his high horse telling people how stupid people are and that they have been played since they were born rather than being like, you believe in _______, cool I am an atheist and I don't have any religious beliefs and just being humble about it. Sounds pretty simple yet people would rather debate how they are right and how you are wrong and that there is nothing that can sway there minds. Maybe its just Human nature to be an A-hole.

[slowvia]

I haven't met an atheist yet that tolerates others beliefs, every single one that I have met has a massive ego and daily drives his high horse telling people how stupid people are and that they have been played since they were born rather than being like, you believe in _______, cool I am an atheist and I don't have any religious beliefs and just being humble about it. Sounds pretty simple yet people would rather debate how they are right and how you are wrong and that there is nothing that can sway there minds. Maybe its just Human nature to be an A-hole.

I consider myself agnostic... I guess. I don't believe there is a higher power, but I don't believe it's impossible either.
Getting to the point however, I'm not opposed to any religion or religious peoples. I have plenty of religious friends and family members and I have never had a problem with their beliefs. I think having faith is a truly great thing for many people.
However, I do have a problem with religious people coming up to my door, or approaching me at the bowling alley and telling me that I need to "accept our Lord and Savior *insert religious figure here* into your heart". I don't go around telling people that they believe in this or that, so what gives someone else the right to tell me what to believe in?
Oh and to get back to the original post, I hope that more people try to follow the teachings of Christ, and not just the Church. While I myself may not be religious, I can certainly appreciate the teachings of Jesus.

[BarrigaS14]

I haven't met an religious believer yet that tolerates others beliefs, every single one that I have met has a massive ego and daily drives his high horse telling people how stupid people are and that they have been played since they were born rather than being like, you believe in _______, cool I am religious and I have many religious beliefs and just being humble about it. Sounds pretty simple yet people would rather debate how they are right and how you are wrong and that there is nothing that can sway there minds. Maybe its just Human nature to be an A-hole.


Goes both ways buddy. Especially when people use their religious dogma to create government policy which effects all people within this nation. Last I checked, one religion isn't what America was and there is the nice clause that says separation of religion and state.

[BustedS13]

Religion is a crutch for pussies who can't handle mortality, and a tool for rulers to keep the masses in check.

Deuces

[jvsc91talon]

Hahahaha as kingkilburn stated, Atheism is NOT a religion. Yes i am attacking, and yes i am mocking...SO WHAT!!! I have every right too. Religious people are the most hypocritical people on earth. They tell us that we are sinners from birth, they tell us that we were "created" sick and ordered on threats of eternal torture in hell to be well. Im not an atheist because i think it will make me happier or live better,(which it does) i am one because of the FACTS. If you dont like the idea that nothing happens after we die, too bad, the universe doesnt owe you anything. And to you who think that i should just leave people alone who believe in a god because it doesnt hurt anyone...HAHAHA Lets see shall we... How about most wars, the Crusades, The Inquisition, 9/11, arranged marriages to minors, slavery, suppression of women, girls schools bombings, abortion clinic bombings, homosexual discrimination, death threats(fatwa) honor rapes, witch burning, human sacrifice, suicide bombings, oh and here is 2 MAJOR ones about Catholics and why i said its too easy: Going to the most aids infested country in Africa and telling them that "aids is bad, very bad, but condoms are worse" and how about oh the thousands of little boys that were(and are) molested all around the world over many years. Even the scumbag pope helped conceal these evil and wicked acts. Here is something a lil more at home. Stem cell research. Ignorant religious wacko nutjobs who think we have a soul wont allow for one the best and promising research to cure MANY types of illness. How about when my children go to school and some brainwashed indoctrinated little kids complain when the teacher tries to teach about evolution and the big bang because mommy and daddy told them that god made the whole vast universe in just six days, and that all the animals on earth came from noah's ark. hahahaha So yea i think i might have a few reasons why i attack these people. They are the enemy of all humanity and future of our species. Jealous...Not even a little.

[slowvia]

Hahahaha as kingkilburn stated, Atheism is NOT a religion. Yes i am attacking, and yes i am mocking...SO WHAT!!! I have every right too. Religious people are the most hypocritical people on earth. They tell us that we are sinners from birth, they tell us that we were "created" sick and ordered on threats of eternal torture in hell to be well. Im not an atheist because i think it will make me happier or live better,(which it does) i am one because of the FACTS. If you dont like the idea that nothing happens after we die, too bad, the universe doesnt owe you anything. And to you who think that i should just leave people alone who believe in a god because it doesnt hurt anyone...HAHAHA Lets see shall we... How about most wars, the Crusades, The Inquisition, 9/11, arranged marriages to minors, slavery, suppression of women, girls schools bombings, abortion clinic bombings, homosexual discrimination, death threats(fatwa) honor rapes, witch burning, human sacrifice, suicide bombings, oh and here is 2 MAJOR ones about Catholics and why i said its too easy: Going to the most aids infested country in Africa and telling them that "aids is bad, very bad, but condoms are worse" and how about oh the thousands of molested little boys all around the world over many years. Even the scumbag pope helped conceal these evil and wicked acts. Here is something a lil more at home. Stem cell research. Ignorant religious wacko nutjobs who think we have a soul wont allow for one the best and promising research to cure MANY types of illness. How about when my children go to school and some brainwashed indoctrinated little kids complain when the teacher tries to teach about evolution and the big bang because mommy and daddy told them that god made the whole vast universe in just six days, and that all the animals on earth came from noah's ark. hahahaha So yea i think i might have a few reasons why i attack these people. They are the enemy of all humanity and future of our species. Jealous...Not even a little.


That sounds an awful lot like a religious man's argument. Not that I disagree entirely, but you do have to understand that by making such an arrogant statement you are doing exactly what you are speaking out against. By using such language you are persuading people to turn a deaf ear to your argument, something the Church has learned over time; don't get mad and point fingers, get crafty with the presentation of your beliefs.

And I'll just throw this in for fun-
Top five arguments for and against the existence of God (http://listverse.com/2012/04/18/5-arguments-for-and-against-the-existence-of-god/)

[jvsc91talon]

I fail to see how my statement is a "religious man argument." If stating FACTS is arrogant, then yea i guess it is. lol The truth is this....The world would be WAY better off if our species would stop dwelling on bronze age fairytales.

[jvsc91talon]

Thomas Aquinas's "arguments" are bogus and dont hold up anymore. Sorry. Plus, his arguments only defend a deist god and not a theist god.

[ryandh]

IF there was a god, he would have answered my prayers and made the EPA more laxed on their strict emissions for CA...He sure helped out justin beiber at the VMA's....

Justin Bieber thanks not only God but Jesus. - YouTube (http://youtu.be/HSwjrZUlzbg)

'God' lol what a joke.

[jvsc91talon]

hahaha Yea see that is why praying is arrogant, egocentric, selfish, and bullshit.lol These people actually believe that jesus/god granted their prayers to help them win a grammy, or win the super bowl, or helped pass a test. But they fail to see the MILLIONS of suffering and dying children whose parents and family pray for constantly only to find out it didnt work. When god "answers" prays we hear he is loving, but when he doesnt and innocent people die of starvation, illness, disasters, etc... we hear god is mysterious. Give me a break.

[Walperstyle]

I remember having these arguments in Highschool back in 1998. Its odd how nothing has changed.

I like mr burn doing some more pot kettle calling again.

[Corbic]

Talon you manage to bring up not a single accurate or interesting point.

So lets take this in stride.

Atheism IS A Religion. Whether you want to accept that or not, I don’t care. Whether some professors writing dictionaries decree it or not, is irrelevant. It’s a belief system, thus it’s a form of “Religion”. Religion does not mean = Christian. And you need to understand that and stop being such a child. So you are making broad ignorant statements by saying “Religious People” and start bringing into Christian concepts of original sin…

Second, you say religion causes death, suffering and war. You highlight the crusades, 9/11 and Inquisition. Clearly you are either intentionally lying, or are just completely ignorant. So one at a time.

Crusades. The crusades happened because Europe was coming out of the dark ages. Farming was once again turning enough produce to feed people and childhood mortality was slowly declining. The population was increasing, but in a bad way. Male population numbers where slowing creeping ahead of women and in any society this is always BAD. Unattached males quickly become problem some, this also ties into the science of birth in which female embryos are more robust then male. Female birth rates need to be higher, the species will easily survive with less men. Also, durning the pre-industrial times, women often died in child birth, some times as much as 1 in 4. This means a man would often remarry several times in his life. You have 8 kids, 3 make it to adult hood and you lost one wife along the way in child birth.

So what was happening in Europe, families where having 2-4 sons reach adult hood and this created problems. Often the father would leave his land to the eldest and money to the second, but with a 3rd or 4th son, there was nothing to give. These sons would then head out to find their own land and fortune… taking it from others. This on a macro level became the constant infigthing, raiding and wars found in Europe throughout the middle ages. This threatened the entire continents survival because if your out killing , burning and pillage – fields do not get tended to, food is not produced and dieses spreads.

The Pope, and rightly so, declared the first and subsequent Crusades to focus Europe's angst on someone else. This rounded up all these “unwanted” men and sent them overseas to fight. This helped relieve the inner political tensions in Europe, give everyone a common enemy to focus on.

Inquisition. We’ll focus on Spain, but the Salem Witch trials where no different. Europeans always despised Jews, simply because they are the “other” group. Often close nit, they speak their own language and do not invite others into their social circles. The only way to become a Jew is to be born one. So, European lords banned Jews from owning land. Well, this is a blessing actually. Sure land provides food, but by having liquid cash, they Jewish communities where able to generate more money by trade – often in precious metals (JEW-lery). The Church also forbid loaning money with Interest. They saw it as extortion. Someone was in need (of money) and you are trying to profit off that need by charging interest. However, without charging interest, why would I bother to loan you money?

Thus – Banking. So you needed money? Go to a Jew, he’ll loan you it cause he has lots of cash because he can’t own land. Need some exotic goods or gems? Go to a Jew, he can get them… because he has all this cash cause he can’t own land. And that quick lesson is where the stereotype of the money-grubbing-jewelry selling-banking Jew comes from.

But back to Spain and burning people. When any minority group at anytime has a lot of money and power… the masses get restless. Spain declared that the Jews needed to leave or convert. Most converted… but some time latter it became clear many still practice Judaism in private and where not REAL Christians. This combined with various popular sex cults of time incited paranoia and anger. Not to mention Spain was suffering from other social and economic issues – so obviously a good “witch hunt” was needed to take attention off of things and reinforce control.

9/11 - both issues combined yo! You have a huge wealth disparity in the Middle East today. Filthy rich Sheiks and Oil Tycoons ruling over the poorest of poor people. So to take their minds off this fact – Blame America! Tell them it’s Gods Will, and It’s Americas fault. Round up all these 3rd, 4th born sons who have no real future, they can’t get married, there are no jobs, they won’t inherit Dad’s property and tell them – “your true reward is in the next world!!”.

But this all stems from true, real life social, economic and political issues. Religion didn’t cause it, it’s jus the excuse. If the whole world was atheist, we’d be waring over Genetic Purity, Global Warming and Football teams.

Also, once again, in your rant about Aids and Six Days – you are completely hell-bent on Catholic Christianity as your “poster child”. You realize there are THOUSANDS of sects of Christianity. Check out one of the Community “Rock n Rolll” Church's or something. Ever consider Buddhism or Shintoism? What about Mormonism?

You blame the evils of men on Religion it’s self. Even with out Religion those men would still be evil… or worldly they? I mean, if there is no afterlife nor judgment, who is to say it’s “evil”?

Would we not be degraded to just animals? Euthanize the elderly, insure genetic purity? Natural selection? Then “All men are Created Equal” is a load of crap. Clearly we are not genetically equal, nor are we socially equal, we aren’t even economically equal. All parents are no equal… so with out the concept of God and Religion, why should we treat someone that is clearly “lesser” as anything but a drain on society?

It's intresting how every single Human society ever, ever; has had some form of spirituality. Hell, archiologist have found that early/pre-homosapians had burrial rites for thier family and kin. So, once again, you are discounting Relgion and Spirituality based on the fact that you hate your mom and dad for dragging you're ass to Sunday School every week instead of letting you play Nintendo.

Also, not all religions believe in an afterlife. In fact the concept of a peaceful heaven has more to do with "yes your life sucks now, your riddle with cancer, God screwed you over, but don't give up faith....your true reward is coming".


Ever read up on the concepts of afterlife for various Pagan religions? Vikings believed you all went to the bottom of a frozen lake unless your a man who died standing, with sword in hand. Those great warriors would go to Valhalla, and battle all day, cutting and dying, and at sunset would be resurrected to feast, only to repeat - for an eternity, until the final battle to end all times.. awesome!

[slowvia]

I fail to see how my statement is a "religious man argument." If stating FACTS is arrogant, then yea i guess it is. lol The truth is this....The world would be WAY better off if our species would stop dwelling on bronze age fairytales.

Your'e making a religious mans argument because you have no more proof that God does not exist than anyone else has that He does exist. So you are not stating any FACTS at all.
And no, that is no truth, it is merely your own opinion.
I may not believe in a God, but I will defend the right of others to do so if they wish.

And might I just point out one little overlooked thing- religion does not cause war; Man causes war when he decides that his religion is right and his neighbor's is wrong.

[jvsc91talon]

Dude, corbic, you really need to read a book man. Where did you go to school? Home school??? You know there is a famous quote by Steven Weinberg "Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion." You are most definitely wrong sir. People who are atheist dont suicide bomb because they are atheist. People who are atheist dont hack away at children's genitals. People who are atheist dont fly planes into buildings because they are atheist...etc These things would NOT be happening if they didnt think they were doing "god's will." You say that not all religions have an afterlife myth and your right, but i dont care about them. My fear is about the people who do have an afterlife fairytale and cant wait for the end times, these people are also the ones who have the power to start a nuclear war. My fear is about terrorist islamic fascists getting one of these nuclear bombs and thinks he is doing "allah's will." As well should be your fear. Let me ask you a question, is not believing in leprechauns a religion to you? How about not believing in santa claus? Just so your up to date, here is the definition of religion: "the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods." Atheism has no set of beliefs. Im sorry but you are misinformed. And did i read you right? You imply that the Crusades was a GOOD thing??? You have a misguided view of history.

[jvsc91talon]

slowvia- I never once said that god doesnt exist. What i am saying is that there is not 1 good enough reason to believe that he does exist, not 1. And thankfully so, the god of the bible is a wicked, evil, racist, homophobic, unjust, vindictive, sadomasochistic, misogynistic, genocidal, infanticidal, filicidal, petty, malevolent asshole.

" religion does not cause war; Man causes war when he decides that his religion is right and his neighbor's is wrong." THEY ARE FIGHTING OVER THEIR RELIGIOUS BELIEFS!!!! how is religion not the culprit??? Man didnt decide, his book told told him everyone else is wrong.

And i too agree that everyone has a right to believe whatever they want, no matter how crazy it is. I too would also defend anyone to have the right to their own beliefs. But those beliefs should NEVER be forced on someone else, as we have here in america with our money, our pledge of allegiance and so on... Christians say we are just negative and angry when we dont want these things but i wonder what they would say if we changed our money to say "In Allah We Trust?"

[GripTerror]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNGqrzkFp_4

[kingkilburn]

I haven't met an atheist yet that tolerates others beliefs, every single one that I have met has a massive ego and daily drives his high horse telling people how stupid people are and that they have been played since they were born rather than being like, you believe in _______, cool I am an atheist and I don't have any religious beliefs and just being humble about it. Sounds pretty simple yet people would rather debate how they are right and how you are wrong and that there is nothing that can sway there minds. Maybe its just Human nature to be an A-hole.
Consider your life changed. I'm all atheist. Not a doubt in my mind. I do not however attack people for believing what they want.
EDIT : I will challenge your beliefs by bringing attention to things that don't jive.
Hahahaha as kingkilburn stated, Atheism is NOT a religion. Yes i am attacking, and yes i am mocking...SO WHAT!!! I have every right too. Religious people are the most hypocritical people on earth. They tell us that we are sinners from birth, they tell us that we were "created" sick and ordered on threats of eternal torture in hell to be well. Im not an atheist because i think it will make me happier or live better,(which it does) i am one because of the FACTS. If you dont like the idea that nothing happens after we die, too bad, the universe doesnt owe you anything. And to you who think that i should just leave people alone who believe in a god because it doesnt hurt anyone...HAHAHA Lets see shall we... How about most wars, the Crusades, The Inquisition, 9/11, arranged marriages to minors, slavery, suppression of women, girls schools bombings, abortion clinic bombings, homosexual discrimination, death threats(fatwa) honor rapes, witch burning, human sacrifice, suicide bombings, oh and here is 2 MAJOR ones about Catholics and why i said its too easy: Going to the most aids infested country in Africa and telling them that "aids is bad, very bad, but condoms are worse" and how about oh the thousands of little boys that were(and are) molested all around the world over many years. Even the scumbag pope helped conceal these evil and wicked acts. Here is something a lil more at home. Stem cell research. Ignorant religious wacko nutjobs who think we have a soul wont allow for one the best and promising research to cure MANY types of illness. How about when my children go to school and some brainwashed indoctrinated little kids complain when the teacher tries to teach about evolution and the big bang because mommy and daddy told them that god made the whole vast universe in just six days, and that all the animals on earth came from noah's ark. hahahaha So yea i think i might have a few reasons why i attack these people. They are the enemy of all humanity and future of our species. Jealous...Not even a little.
You have NO right to attack anyone. Ever. Your shitty arguments and behavior are what characterizes atheists as arrogant know it alls.

I remember having these arguments in Highschool back in 1998. Its odd how nothing has changed.

I like mr burn doing some more pot kettle calling again.

You're doing a terrible job of shutting the fuck up. You are doing a great job of shitting up Zilvia though. Keep up the exemplary work.

[jvsc91talon]

Yea man, i agree with that guy about how people worship this jesus guy. Christians claim that its not good enough that you just believe in god, you have to believe the jesus myth also. That doesnt quite make sense to me.

[kingkilburn]

Corbic please define religion for us.

Here, I'll help you out.
The belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, esp. a personal God or gods.


Atheism is a total rejection of the very idea of supernatural deities.



I repeat atheism is NOT a religion.

[kingkilburn]

Your'e making a religious mans argument because you have no more proof that God does not exist than anyone else has that He does exist.

http://www.skepticmoney.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Hitchens-Razor.jpg?9d7bd4

[jvsc91talon]

Kingkilburn- i see, so they have a right to jam their beliefs down everyone throat everyday but i dont have a right to call them on it??? Did you not just read what i wrote? I would defend all peoples rights to believe whatever they want, just dont force it on other people. Shitty arguments??? See you might still think that discussing or mocking someones "faith" is taboo but i dont, that is something that i think needs to be changed. If i talk about a presidential candidate in the same manner, other people would also state their opinion and we can discuss our differences. But as soon as someone brings up peoples faith in god, we have gone too far. That should not be. I have been around religious people all my life and i see the damaging effect it has on a persons mind to be brainwashed into believing that thinking for yourself is a bad thing. If i am hurting someones feelings cause i talk about their beliefs in god...SO WHAT!!! i do not care if i offend. Nor should you.

[kingkilburn]

They don't have the right either. So rather than being right you act the same as them and ruin it for the rest of us. Defeat their ideas with logic not trash talk.