white house marijuana petition gets bullshit response

[BustedS13]

so the white house has this site where you can submit petitions, and if they get enough signatures, the white house will give an official response. when they first started, the threshold was 5,000 signatures. they then raised it to 25,000, and then the petition quoted below gathered almost 75,000:

we petition the obama administration to:

Legalize and Regulate Marijuana in a Manner Similar to Alcohol.

We the people want to know when we can have our "perfectly legitimate" discussion on marijuana legalization. Marijuana prohibition has resulted in the arrest of over 20 million Americans since 1965, countless lives ruined and hundreds of billions of tax dollars squandered and yet this policy has still failed to achieve its stated goals of lowering use rates, limiting the drug's access, and creating safer communities.
Isn't it time to legalize and regulate marijuana in a manner similar to alcohol? If not, please explain why you feel that the continued criminalization of cannabis will achieve the results in the future that it has never achieved in the past?
Created: Sep 22, 2011
Issues: Civil Rights and Liberties (https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions/%21/petitions/all/0/2/4), Economy (https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions/%21/petitions/all/0/2/16), Government Reform (https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions/%21/petitions/all/0/2/193)
total signatures

74,169

https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions/!/petition/legalize-and-regulate-marijuana-manner-similar-alcohol/y8l45gb1

so then they gave us this canned response that doesn't even address half the questions posed.

Official White House Response to Legalize and Regulate Marijuana in a Manner Similar to Alcohol. and 7 other petitions (https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions#%21/response/what-we-have-say-about-legalizing-marijuana)
What We Have to Say About Legalizing Marijuana

By: Gil Kerlikowske
When the President took office, he directed all of his policymakers to develop policies based on science and research, not ideology or politics. So our concern about marijuana (http://www.whitehouse.gov/ondcp/marijuana) is based on what the science tells us about the drug's effects.
According to scientists at the National Institutes of Health (http://www.nida.nih.gov/nidahome.html)- the world's largest source of drug abuse research - marijuana use is associated with addiction (http://drugabuse.gov/ResearchReports/Marijuana/marijuana4.html#addictive), respiratory disease (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/01/080123104017.htm), and cognitive impairment (http://archives.drugabuse.gov/NIDA_Notes/NNVol11N3/MarijMemory.html). We know from an array of treatment admission information and Federal data that marijuana use is a significant source for voluntary drug treatment admissions (http://oas.samhsa.gov/TEDS2k7highlights/TEDSHighl2k7Tbl3.htm) and visits to emergency rooms (http://www.oas.samhsa.gov/2k10/DAWN034/EDHighlights.htm). Studies also reveal that marijuana potency has almost tripled over the past 20 years (http://home.olemiss.edu/%7Esuman/potancy%20paper%202010.pdf), raising serious concerns about what this means for public health – especially among young people who use the drug because research shows their brains continue to develop well into their 20's (http://drugabuse.gov/scienceofaddiction/addiction.html). Simply put, it is not a benign drug.
Like many, we are interested in the potential marijuana may have in providing relief to individuals diagnosed with certain serious illnesses. That is why we ardently support ongoing research into determining what components of the marijuana plant can be used as medicine. To date, however, neither the FDA (http://www.fda.gov/NewsEvents/Newsroom/PressAnnouncements/2006/ucm108643.htm) nor the Institute of Medicine (http://www.iom.edu/Reports/2003/Marijuana-and-Medicine-Assessing-the-Science-Base.aspx%20class=) have found smoked marijuana to meet the modern standard for safe or effective medicine for any condition.
As a former police chief, I recognize we are not going to arrest our way out of the problem. We also recognize that legalizing marijuana would not provide the answer to any of the health, social, youth education, criminal justice, and community quality of life challenges associated with drug use.
That is why the President's National Drug Control Strategy (http://www.whitehouse.gov/ondcp/2011-national-drug-control-strategy) is balanced and comprehensive, emphasizing prevention and treatment while at the same time supporting innovative law enforcement efforts that protect public safety and disrupt the supply of drugs entering our communities. Preventing drug use is the most cost-effective way to reduce drug use and its consequences in America. And, as we've seen in our work through community coalitions across the country (http://www.whitehouse.gov/ondcp/Drug-Free-Communities-Support-Program), this approach works in making communities healthier and safer. We're also focused on expanding access to drug treatment for addicts. Treatment works (http://www.drugabuse.gov/PODAT/faqs.html#faq3). In fact, millions of Americans are in successful recovery for drug and alcoholism today. And through our work with innovative drug courts (http://www.nadcp.org/learn/what-are-drug-courts) across the Nation, we are improving our criminal justice system to divert non-violent offenders into treatment.
Our commitment to a balanced approach to drug control is real. This last fiscal year alone, the Federal Government spent over $10 billion on drug education and treatment programs compared to just over $9 billion on drug related law enforcement in the U.S.
Thank you for making your voice heard. I encourage you to take a moment to read about the President's approach to drug control (http://www.whitehouse.gov/ondcp/2011-national-drug-control-strategy) to learn more.
Resources:


National Institutes of Health, National Institute on Drug Abuse (http://www.nida.nih.gov/NIDAHome.html) (NIDA)
Marijuana Facts (http://www.whitehouse.gov/ondcp/marijuana) (ONDCP)
Drug Abuse Warning Network (https://dawninfo.samhsa.gov/default.asp) (HHS)
Treatment Episode Data Set (http://wwwdasis.samhsa.gov/webt/newmapv1.htm) (HHS)
National Survey on Drug Use and Health (http://www.oas.samhsa.gov/nhsda.htm) (HHS)
Monitoring the Future Survey, University of Michigan (http://monitoringthefuture.org/)

Gil Kerlikowske is Director of the Office of National Drug Control Policy


https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions#!/response/what-we-have-say-about-legalizing-marijuana

so i'm reading some comments on (fancy popular social news site), and come across this:

According to scientists at the National Institutes of Health- the world's largest source of drug abuse research - marijuana alcohol use is associated with addiction, respiratory liver disease, and cognitive impairment. We know from an array of treatment admission information and Federal data that marijuana use boozing is a significant source for voluntary drug treatment admissions and visits to emergency rooms and morgues. Studies also reveal that marijuana potency Bud Light drinkability has almost tripled over the past 20 years, raising serious concerns about what this means for public health – especially among young people who use the drug because research shows their brains continue to develop well into their 20's. Simply put, it is not a benign drug like marijuana.

which has since been turned into a white house petition:
https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions/%21/petition/respond-marijuana-legalization-petition-argument-doesnt-also-apply-alcohol/bBqPSqpS?utm_source=wh.gov&utm_medium=shorturl&utm_campaign=shorturl

be sure to also check out NORML's response, which completely destroys the official response. it's a really good read and much too long to quote here.

White House response to NORML’s “We the People” marijuana legalization petition | NORML Blog, Marijuana Law Reform (http://blog.norml.org/2011/10/29/white-house-response-to-normls-we-the-people-marijuana-legalization-petition/)

a recent gallup poll showed Americans favor legalization. 50% of Americans support legalization, 46% oppose. when are we going to stand up and actively fight our government's draconian drug policy?

[amdnivram]

seriously its disgusting how facts can just get ignored and instead they use the same old worn out and dis proven arguments against the legalization of a plant , yet legalize alcohol which requires chemical processes to even obtain the proper alcohol group is completely legal.

[word sux]

marijuana will never be legal


big pharm has too much monies

[revcyanide]

haha shit, i laughed my ass off in that cigarettes can be substituted for marijuana anywhere in their response, and it would still be accurate.

Personally I do not like weed, I don't like its effects on me. and even if it is legal i will not smoke it.


however i see no reason why cigarettes are around, which contain multiple poisons and marijuana is illegal.

[BustedS13]

It bothers me that whenever I post about this, there is no debate. We're all on the same page, and our government is going by a different book.

[Walperstyle]

I really don't get why your country makes such a big deal out of this. And I'm not talking about the government.

Are you really that hard up for a good time that you need another legalized substance to have fun?

[revcyanide]

I really don't get why your country makes such a big deal out of this. And I'm not talking about the government.

Are you really that hard up for a good time that you need another legalized substance to have fun?

It isn't about going out and getting high so much

I don't even smoke weed and i support it.

legalize and tax the FUCK out of it, like what is done with cigarettes.

the point is, the costs to imprison people from marijuana possession crimes, is crippling our jail system. The police could be pursueing much worse crimes, my step dad is a cop, he hates the fact that so much of police revenue is forced into pursing marijuana crimes (no he doesn't smoke nor has he ever) ESP when police are being laid off left and right because of how much they are struggling right now.

our government cannot find ways to increase income.
people still smoke weed, rates have not dropped since the war on drugs started.
It does have some medicinal value, and i mean shit, i am on legal heroin right now (oxycodone, yes it is prescribed to me.) that shit is FAR worse and addictive than weed.

Cigarettes are legal which are fucking horrible.
i <3 booze but i understand it's effects are some of the worst.
and alcohol addiction is actually stronger than almost all drugs.


We are not hard up for a good time so we want it legal. there are people who are just Stoners and want their habit to not be illegal yes, however there are people like me, who look at this and just think why is this illegal, it makes NO sense. especially when the LEGAL substitutes that come out (spice etc) are sooooooooo much fucking worse for you than the actual product.


what is it with 95% of Canadians being fucking condescending as shit.

If you really were curious about why, ask, but don't be such a fucking douche about it.

[murda-c]

I really don't get why your country makes such a big deal out of this. And I'm not talking about the government.

Are you really that hard up for a good time that you need another legalized substance to have fun?

People are going to jail for possession of flowers...

[az_240]

Are you really that hard up for a good time that you need another legalized substance to have fun?

Yes, because that is all anyone would use it for.... fun.:picardfp:

[badbob2121]

Thank you Revcyanide for that explanation ... finally someone that illustrates the concept correctly

[S14DB]

Like many, we are interested in the potential marijuana may have in providing relief to individuals diagnosed with certain serious illnesses. That is why we ardently support ongoing research into determining what components of the marijuana plant can be used as medicine. To date, however, neither the FDA nor the Institute of Medicine have found smoked marijuana to meet the modern standard for safe or effective medicine for any condition.
All their con's are related to smoking, Why are cigarettes still legal?

Medical cannabis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_cannabis)
One of the major criticisms of cannabis as medicine is opposition to smoking as a method of consumption. However, smoking is no longer necessary due to the development of healthier methods. Today, medicinal marijuana patients can use vaporizers, where the essential marijuana compounds are extracted and inhaled. This is somewhat similar to steaming vegetables to avoid cancerous by-products that are produced at higher temperatures. In addition, edible marijuana, which is produced in various baked goods, is also available, and has demonstrated longer lasting effects.

I see that research is being done. I thought the governments legal definition placed it in a category of no medical benefit? If you are so committed to medical use, why not move it down a classification?
Controlled Substances Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controlled_Substances_Act)

[revcyanide]

Thank you Revcyanide for that explanation ... finally someone that illustrates the concept correctly

I try.




msgggg

[revcyanide]

I see that research is being done. I thought the governments legal definition placed it in a category of no medical benefit? If you are so committed to medical use, why not move it down a classification?
Controlled Substances Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controlled_Substances_Act)

yes! why the fuck is above cocaine, pcp and fucking meth?

I lived in Tucson, it is called spun valley for a reason, I have FIRST HAND seen the devastating effects of meth. Meth is only a class III or class II when in an inject-able form. Yet marijuana is 2 categories worse! (or 1 depending on the form meth is in, which doesn't mean a damn thing smoking meth demolishes lives just like shooting it.)

[Chaluska]

i agree, i voted + for the petition, and got the BS response emailed to me. i knew our bullshit government would respond the way they did.. but they didn't even respond to the question asked, why not tax and distribute M-J the same fashion as alcohol.

its total crap, its all about mexico.. any reason to keep the illegal immigrants out.

it has nothing to do with the small amount of relaxation that MJ can give..

honestly, when i drink alcohol i feel more dangerous and have less control, than if i were on MJ

[HyperTek]

I really don't get why your country makes such a big deal out of this. And I'm not talking about the government.

Are you really that hard up for a good time that you need another legalized substance to have fun?

imo this is like the divorce, and single parent rate, shit is more and more commen and accepted now, mainly due to the image and influence these have been introduced to the generation, i.e. music stars smoking weed etc

[sidewaysil80]

i agree with op, this is RIDICULOUS. hell i don't even smoke but even i can factually realize it's less harmful then cigs and booze. if they are legal their is ABSOLUTLEY NO reason it shouldn't be taxed and regulated as well.

its all about mexico.. any reason to keep the illegal immigrants out.

what the hell does that have to do with legalizing marijuana?

in keeping with the style of the original article...
I really don't get why your country makes such a big deal out of hockey. And I'm not talking about the government.

Are you really that hard up for a good time that you need to riot and cause millions of dollars in damage and ruin thousands of small businesses to have fun?

[revcyanide]

i agree, i voted + for the petition, and got the BS response emailed to me. i knew our bullshit government would respond the way they did.. but they didn't even respond to the question asked, why not tax and distribute M-J the same fashion as alcohol.

its total crap, its all about mexico.. any reason to keep the illegal immigrants out.

it has nothing to do with the small amount of relaxation that MJ can give..

honestly, when i drink alcohol i feel more dangerous and have less control, than if i were on MJ

honestly it's arguments from people like you that immediately make people of any intelligence disregard legalization as stoners just wanting to get high.

[raz0rbladez909]

honestly it's arguments from people like you that immediately make people of any intelligence disregard legalization as stoners just wanting to get high.

+1 lol :picardfp:

I like you have no desire to use marijuana, whether legal or not; I just find it ridiculous that they'd send a response back stating the reasons why they intend on keeping it illegal are because of ill effects and public health. There are many other legal substances that people use daily that are known to cause much worse adverse effects.

I think the most absurd part is that it is a naturally growing plant, a damn plant lol. I can't stand that our system works off of "what if", so many stupid rules are in place because of "what if". I don't feel that the government should even have the power to tell me what is and isn't good for me, if I'm doing no harm unto others don't bother me.

I'm sure a good reason for them not allowing it to become legal is probably because people could then grow it in their own homes, so taxing it wouldn't work quite as well as they'd hope for.

[Chaluska]

honestly it's arguments from people like you that immediately make people of any intelligence disregard legalization as stoners just wanting to get high.

It was once associated with oppressed ethnic groups. used as slander to make the public scared of marijuana.


"The intense anti-marijuana movement of the 1930s dovetailed nicely with the intense anti-Chicano movement of the 1930s. Marijuana was associated with Mexican Americans, and a ban on marijuana was seen as a way of discouraging Mexican-American subcultures from developing."

"There are 100,000 total marijuana smokers in the US, and most are Negroes, Hispanics, Filipinos and entertainers. Their Satanic music, jazz and swing, result from marijuana usage. This marijuana causes white women to seek sexual relations with Negroes, entertainers and any others."

"Colored students at the Univ. of Minn. partying with (white) female students, smoking [marijuana] and getting their sympathy with stories of racial persecution. Result: pregnancy"[11] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_J._Anslinger#cite_note-10)[12] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_J._Anslinger#cite_note-inciardi-11)

"Two Negros (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negro) took a girl fourteen years old and kept her for two days under the influence of hemp. Upon recovery she was found to be suffering from syphilis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syphilis)."[12] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_J._Anslinger#cite_note-inciardi-11)[13] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_J._Anslinger#cite_note-12)

sorry if my previous response was miss-understood. i hope this clears up what i was talking about....

i think its crap that its considered such a deadly thing, when alcohol is much more mind altering, and has killed many more people.

if it weren't for propaganda it would still be legal is what i was getting at.

[revcyanide]

It was once associated with oppressed ethnic groups. used as slander to make the public scared of marijuana.


"The intense anti-marijuana movement of the 1930s dovetailed nicely with the intense anti-Chicano movement of the 1930s. Marijuana was associated with Mexican Americans, and a ban on marijuana was seen as a way of discouraging Mexican-American subcultures from developing."

"There are 100,000 total marijuana smokers in the US, and most are Negroes, Hispanics, Filipinos and entertainers. Their Satanic music, jazz and swing, result from marijuana usage. This marijuana causes white women to seek sexual relations with Negroes, entertainers and any others."

"Colored students at the Univ. of Minn. partying with (white) female students, smoking [marijuana] and getting their sympathy with stories of racial persecution. Result: pregnancy"[11] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_J._Anslinger#cite_note-10)[12] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_J._Anslinger#cite_note-inciardi-11)

"Two Negros (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negro) took a girl fourteen years old and kept her for two days under the influence of hemp. Upon recovery she was found to be suffering from syphilis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syphilis)."[12] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_J._Anslinger#cite_note-inciardi-11)[13] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_J._Anslinger#cite_note-12)

sorry if my previous response was miss-understood. i hope this clears up what i was talking about....

i think its crap that its considered such a deadly thing, when alcohol is much worse, and has killed many more people. if it weren't for propaganda, it would still be legal.

(2009 - annual causes of death by cause - FDA)
Cause of death1 Number

All causes 2,436,652

Cardiovascular diseases 779,367 Malignant neoplasms 568,668 Drug induced2 37,485 Suicide 36,547 Motor vehicle accidents 36,284 Septicemia (infections) 35,587 by Firearms 31,224 Accidental poisoning 30,504 Alcohol induced 23,199 Homicide 16,591 Human immunodeficiency virus (HIV) 9,424 Viral hepatitis 7,652 Cannabis (Marijuana) 0


2 Drug induced include both legal and illicit drugs.

guess what.

I am Hispanic too, stop using it as a trump card and start making intelligent arguements, (like your ending comment).

This isnt the 1930's.

[Brok3n_RB25]

guess what.

I am Hispanic too, stop using it as a trump card and start making intelligent arguements, (like your ending comment).

This isnt the 1930's.

I don't think he was trying to use it as a trump card. I think he was just reiterating the fact that part of it's illegal nature was based on corrupt and misguided propoganda aimed at minorities in the 1930's.

I might be misreading him, but I don't think he was using ethnic groups as an argument against it's legalization.

[revcyanide]

I don't think he was trying to use it as a trump card. I think he was just reiterating the fact that part of it's illegal nature was based on corrupt and misguided propoganda aimed at minorities in the 1930's.

I might be misreading him, but I don't think he was using ethnic groups as an argument against it's legalization.

I never said it was.

"its total crap, its all about mexico.. any reason to keep the illegal immigrants out."

this is a race card, "you are only doing this because i am (insert race here) is a race card.



He later explained himself, but he is still caught up on being the victim because of his race, I do not believe in that crap.

[Brok3n_RB25]

I never said it was.

"its total crap, its all about mexico.. any reason to keep the illegal immigrants out."

this is a race card, "you are only doing this because i am (insert race here) is a race card.



He later explained himself, but he is still caught up on being the victim because of his race, I do not believe in that crap.

Oh, alright. Sorry about that. I misunderstood where you were coming from.

I agree with you entirely on that note.

[BustedS13]

I really don't get why your country makes such a big deal out of this. And I'm not talking about the government.

Are you really that hard up for a good time that you need another legalized substance to have fun?

People are going to jail for possession of flowers...

there are people in prison over something less addictive than caffeine and less harmful than tobacco. there is no reasonable reason for it to be illegal. the drug war is an enormous waste of tax money and it's fucking up peoples' lives. that should be reason enough to care.

[20 til 3]

Can't to much about it... its pretty well known throughout the "people" that its not a bad thing anymore..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lg5I4ILM44&feature=player_embedded

[Chaluska]

I don't think he was trying to use it as a trump card. I think he was just reiterating the fact that part of it's illegal nature was based on corrupt and misguided propoganda aimed at minorities in the 1930's.

I might be misreading him, but I don't think he was using ethnic groups as an argument against it's legalization.

^this.

take it however you want.

http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/9022/edwardnortonedwardnorto.jpg

its sucks we cant enjoy a natural plant, because a group of a few men get paid large sums of money to make it so..

"YOU CANNOT EAT STRAWBERRYS, THEY HAVE BEEN PROOVEN TO KILL HUNDREDS!!!!"

[Matej]

its sucks we cant enjoy a natural plant, because a group of a few men get paid large sums of money to make it so..
There are plenty of other natural plants you can enjoy.
Have you considered starting a rose garden?
It is a very relaxing pastime.

[Walperstyle]

Yes, because that is all anyone would use it for.... fun.:picardfp:

I suppose you are one of those people thats all about having a hemp wallet, hemp clothing etc. How original.

[Walperstyle]

there are people in prison over something less addictive than caffeine and less harmful than tobacco. there is no reasonable reason for it to be illegal. the drug war is an enormous waste of tax money and it's fucking up peoples' lives. that should be reason enough to care.

You do realize that many of those people that are in jail, simply could have avoided being there if they didn't have it on them right?

besides that, instead of making it Legal, how about lessening some of the laws, aka, fine people more instead of locking them up. Go after the dealers instead of the users.

[NickZ32]

you know what.... GOOD

keep narcotics illegal



the end

[revcyanide]

you know what.... GOOD

keep narcotics illegal



the end

The first thing you should understand about the word "narcotic" is that it is used incorrectly more than it is used correctly. One good, quick way to tell whether someone actually knows anything about this subject is to listen to their use of this word. If they tell you that marijuana, cocaine, and meth are "narcotics" then count them among the vast legions of totally clueless people on this subject.

The word "narcotic" comes from the Greek word "narkos", meaning sleep. Therefore, "narcotics" are drugs that induce sleep. Specifically, that means the opiates such as heroin, morphine and related drugs. This is the correct meaning, so you should accept no other.

Cocaine and meth are not "narcotics". They are "stimulants", the exact opposite of a "narcotic". They cause people to be more awake and more active, not sleepy. Calling them :"narcotics" makes as much sense as calling coffee a "narcotic".

The classification of other drugs such as marijuana, alcohol, and others is open to question. Some might call them "tranquilizers", "depressants", or even "hallucinogens". Marijuana and alcohol may even have a tendency to induce sleep at times. However, calling them "narcotics" simply shows a lack of understanding of the different effects.

[raz0rbladez909]

you know what.... GOOD

keep narcotics illegal



the end

That's a pretty dumb statement to make, might as well make alcohol illegal again because it causes adverse effects and causes people to make dumb decisions. Junkies will try to get high off anything they can get their hands on, are you going to make whiteout/permanent markers, spray paint, freon, household cleaning supplies and random other shit people use to get their fix illegal? Alcohol in itself is considered a legal narcotic and has been proven to cause kidney/liver disease, many DUI accidents, addiction and other ill effects yet alcohol is still legal. Those are the same excuses they are using for keeping a plant illegal. While I don't condone it's use or have any reason to use it I don't understand why our tax dollars are being used to imprison people in possession of it. It is an absolute waste of time/money/resources, yet when people come up with legitimate arguments of why it's a pointless thing to be made illegal people like you come up with the most simple minded responses in return.

[revcyanide]

That's a pretty dumb statement to make, might as well make alcohol illegal again because it causes adverse effects and causes people to make dumb decisions. Junkies will try to get high off anything they can get their hands on, are you going to make whiteout/permanent markers, spray paint, freon, household cleaning supplies and random other shit people use to get their fix illegal? Alcohol in itself is considered a legal narcotic and has been proven to cause kidney/liver disease, many DUI accidents, addiction and other ill effects yet alcohol is still legal. Those are the same excuses they are using for keeping a plant illegal. While I don't condone it's use or have any reason to use it I don't understand why our tax dollars are being used to imprison people in possession of it. It is an absolute waste of time/money/resources, yet when people come up with legitimate arguments of why it's a pointless thing to be made illegal people like you come up with the most simple minded responses in return.


better not forget about aspirin, cold medicine, caffeine, whipped cream (industrial kind)


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v172/stephen_wheeler/1121885.jpg

[Chaluska]

There are plenty of other natural plants you can enjoy.
Have you considered starting a rose garden?
It is a very relaxing pastime.

can they be dried, rolled up, smoked, and provide relaxation?

[Matej]

can they be dried, rolled up, smoked, and provide relaxation?
If you feel the need to use substances (what is worse an illegal one) to relax, then you should most likely address the issues that are causing you to not be relaxed in the first place, instead of just trying to escape from them temporarily like a child.

I also find it hypocritical when people say they do not really need weed, yet they still smoke it, thus willing to take the legal risks that go with it. Whether it is rightfully illegal is another issue, but if I really did not need to do something, especially if that something was illegal, then I most likely would just not do it.

My biggest gripe with marijuana is that out of all substances, it is probably the most annoying to bystanders who do not care for it.
For example, I know someone who had to resort to moving out of her apartment, due to inconsiderate marijuana users living below her. She had to breathe the foul odor, her clothes reeked of it, and she even got in trouble at work for coming in smelling of it.

It is not my concern whether it is good or bad for you, for all I care you can drink bleach, as long as I do not have to smell it or come in contact with you when you are under the influence of it. I guess I would not mind marijuana being legalized as long as the government required all users to vacuum seal their homes or only smoke it in designated areas.

[raz0rbladez909]

If you feel the need to use substances (what is worse an illegal one) to relax, then you should most likely address the issues that are causing you to not be relaxed in the first place, instead of just trying to escape from them temporarily like a child.

I also find it hypocritical when people say they do not really need weed, yet they still smoke it, thus willing to take the legal risks that go with it. Whether it is rightfully illegal is another issue, but if I really did not need to do something, especially if that something was illegal, then I most likely would just not do it.

My biggest gripe with marijuana is that out of all substances, it is probably the most annoying to bystanders who do not care for it.
For example, I know someone who had to resort to moving out of her apartment, due to inconsiderate marijuana users living below her. She had to breathe the foul odor, her clothes reeked of it, and she even got in trouble at work for coming in smelling of it.

It is not my concern whether it is good or bad for you, for all I care you can drink bleach, as long as I do not have to smell it or come in contact with you when you are under the influence of it. I guess I would not mind marijuana being legalized as long as the government required all users to vacuum seal their homes or only smoke it in designated areas.

I agree with everything you've said, but honestly the same can also be applied to cigarettes/cigars, with people being inconsiderate in their use of it as well. I can't stand the smell of people smoking weed, nor can I stand the smell of cigarette smoke either, yet people are allowed to smoke cigarettes in quite a bit of places or have designated smoking areas.

[VROOOM]

i get kidney stones quite often. im prescribed Vicodin, lots of Vicodin. i would much rather smoke weed than take the Vicodin. it fucks up my stomach, is horrible for your liver, makes it so i cant shit and basically makes me go through the day in haze. i dont see why i cant smoke a joint instead of taking some serious pain meds.

technically its still illegal in CA.

[JVD]

If you feel the need to use substances (what is worse an illegal one) to relax, then you should most likely address the issues that are causing you to not be relaxed in the first place, instead of just trying to escape from them temporarily like a child.

I also find it hypocritical when people say they do not really need weed, yet they still smoke it, thus willing to take the legal risks that go with it. Whether it is rightfully illegal is another issue, but if I really did not need to do something, especially if that something was illegal, then I most likely would just not do it.

My biggest gripe with marijuana is that out of all substances, it is probably the most annoying to bystanders who do not care for it.
For example, I know someone who had to resort to moving out of her apartment, due to inconsiderate marijuana users living below her. She had to breathe the foul odor, her clothes reeked of it, and she even got in trouble at work for coming in smelling of it.

It is not my concern whether it is good or bad for you, for all I care you can drink bleach, as long as I do not have to smell it or come in contact with you when you are under the influence of it. I guess I would not mind marijuana being legalized as long as the government required all users to vacuum seal their homes or only smoke it in designated areas.
DO NOT allow the legalization of marijuana... BECAUSE IT SMELLS BAD.

[BustedS13]

You do realize that many of those people that are in jail, simply could have avoided being there if they didn't have it on them right?


you do realize that all of those people wouldn't be in jail if it was FUCKING LEGALIZED, right?

either legalize weed or outlaw tobacco. i'm tired of ignoring blatant hypocrisy.

[Farzam]

My biggest gripe with marijuana is that out of all substances, it is probably the most annoying to bystanders who do not care for it.
For example, I know someone who had to resort to moving out of her apartment, due to inconsiderate marijuana users living below her. She had to breathe the foul odor, her clothes reeked of it, and she even got in trouble at work for coming in smelling of it.

I agree...marijuana smokers are typically proud and talkative...but in my opinion, alcohol is worse. Bleh. Typically in my experience people who are drunk are louder, sloppier, messier, pee everywhere, etc. People on weed smell bad, don't make sense, and listen to the tv too loud...but at least they're just sitting around ordering take out instead of driving to get 2am cheesy 5 layer burritos

[Walperstyle]

^yeah, the stoners you know. I've been out many a time with friends when they were stoned. They drove to fast food places.

you do realize that all of those people wouldn't be in jail if it was FUCKING LEGALIZED, right?

either legalize weed or outlaw tobacco. i'm tired of ignoring blatant hypocrisy.

Where are you going with this? you trying to see if I say 'the same with murder, rape, theft, etc.

Stop being a paranoid angry stoner.

I do agree with tobacco being removed. Lost my old man in 09 from it. Sure, lets get on that.

[raz0rbladez909]

I honestly don't think busted is being a "paranoid angry stoner" as much as he just seems tired of the bullshit of a plant being used to put people in jail. Lets say one day someone in the government determines sunflowers are illegal, and you love sunflower seeds, are you going to all of a sudden just stop eating sunflower seeds because some nutjob determines what is and isn't good for you? It realistically just doesn't make any sense, granted there are other things more worth fighting in the system but at least its a start. The less the government has say in what I do the happier I'll be in the end and you should be too, I don't need someone else telling me what I can and can't do as long as it is within the boundaries of human decency.

[revcyanide]

^yeah, the stoners you know. I've been out many a time with friends when they were stoned. They drove to fast food places.



Where are you going with this? you trying to see if I say 'the same with murder, rape, theft, etc.

Stop being a paranoid angry stoner.

I do agree with tobacco being removed. Lost my old man in 09 from it. Sure, lets get on that.

The difference is, in fucking Canada, their laws for marijuana are laughable.
so it's no wonder you don't see what the issue is, if i recall right growers can get a 5000 dollar fine. not 25 years in prison.

And i don't know whats worse, them driving while high, or you going with them and being ok with it. Or at the very least not stopping them.


Honestly IMO if you don't live in the states, your opinions on our discussions about any sort of US policy is completely invalid, you do not experience it, it being legal or illegal does not affect you in the slightest. get off your fucking high horse and go bitch about the long lines at hospitals or something.


I grew up in a border town, drugs are huge esp marijuana.
Marijuana dealers get more time then child molestors.




Let me tell you a story, someone very very close to me was molested multiple times as a child, they found pornography made by the perpetrator of at least 40+ young girls (ages 6-10).
He was indited and evaded arrest for 5 years. He plead guilty, he is out in 8 years on good behavior.

Someone who sells marijuana and is caught with over a pound + paraphernalia and intent to distribute. no other drugs at all, just weed.
min 15 years, usually 20.



How fucking backwards is that.


I don't care if what they are doing is illegal or not, that to me is saying marijuana dealers are worse to society than child molesters.

[Chaluska]

If you feel the need to use substances (what is worse an illegal one) to relax, then you should most likely address the issues that are causing you to not be relaxed in the first place, instead of just trying to escape from them temporarily like a child.

.................

I guess I would not mind marijuana being legalized as long as the government required all users to vacuum seal their homes or only smoke it in designated areas.

If you are the type of person who doesn't like using stimulants, for whatever reason, that's perfectly fine. i know of a couple of friends who are TOTALLY against any form of externally focused stimulation; whether it be alcohol, smoking, premarital sex, even cursing. that's their belief, and i do not try to enforce my beliefs on them.

there is a difference between using anything as a RECREATIONAL substance for fun, and using it HABITUALLY. but the same can be said about ANY form of substance.. sex, masturbation, alcohol, cigarettes, TV, video games, forum browsing, drinking soda, fast food, coffee, redbull. you pick and choose your poisons and you have to be responsible for how much of that poison you use.


DO NOT allow the legalization of marijuana... BECAUSE IT SMELLS BAD.

So based on a smell we should outlaw stuff? i would be totally down for that.. all the Asian markets that reek of rotting fish in the middle of a suburb, we can make that illegal. 25 years in prison for owning a stinky fish mart.

the legalization of marijuana would ultimately get rid of the smell.. every pot smoker i know would prefer to take it as a THC pill, or a THC infused brownie, candy bar, or lolly pop. they are making great advancements to it in California, where people can experiment and test with THC extraction. if they had the backing of the FDA, and were legal to experiment and test, it ultimately would lead to marijuana being an edible consumed item, instead of smoked.

----------

also, you cannot possibly argue that if the government were to legalize, and tax marijuana, that it would be an economic boost from hell, like removing the t25 turbo that the economy is running on, and slapping twin t3/t4's with no waste-gate (nice car reference).. in taxes alone the government would be making hundreds of millions of dollars a year. American citizens are already spending that money on drug lords, black markets, drug runners, and others, to get their supply. if you could walk into a 7-11/citgo/shell/valero (what have you), buy a 12 pack of THC suckers for $30 and be on with your LEGAL marry way, the governemnt would make there $25 in taxes, and the user would get there supply, legally, without risking being shot, robbed, raped, or a combination of the 3. everyone wins.

[JVD]

lots of good points

I couldn't agreed with you more, man. I quoted Matej because I thought his arguments were laughable.

I also tend to ignore everything Walperstyle ever says. He's pretty much the polar opposite person of me.

[badbob2121]

like removing the t25 turbo that the economy is running on, and slapping twin t3/t4's with no waste-gate (nice car metaphor).

this made me laugh

and i fixed it for you

but honestly there are some great arguments in this thread, but they are all worthless unless you all take action.

write your US Senators and Representatives, there are many websites related to these laws that provide direct links to these political member's emails..

So do it

[lok]

When will they get this stuff on par with grown marijuana?

Breaking Bad Meets Weeds: The Weird History of Synthetic Cannabis (http://io9.com/5856008/the-weird-and-dangerous-history-of-synthetic-cannabinoids)

We already made better diamonds than mother nature.

moissanite

[revcyanide]

I wholehearted agree with that article.

that shit has no long term studies, has been proven to cause physical dependencies, and have not have the anti psychoactive characteristics that marijuana has.

Basically, THC can cause you brain to do a lot of fucked up shit, on par with people with schizophrenia, HOWEVER marijuana has things in it that counteract that, the reason people don't go ape shit off marijuana.

these synthetic blends have none of that, and can do horrible things to you, there are lots of "stories" of things that people have done on this stuff and done horrible things while intoxicated. I am sure news articles on some of them are available somewhere.

[grandma's koukis]

I didn't read the whole thread, so excuse me if it's been said before.

I see a lot of people saying " oh well cigs and booze are legal so pot should be too!"

We shouldn't be trying to add more to the list, we should be trying to reduce it.

The thought of millions of little pre teen stoners running around because it's legalized scares the crap out of me.

[badbob2121]

IThe thought of millions of little pre teen stoners running around because it's legalized scares the crap out of me.

i hope it would, because that has nothing to do with this debate

maybe you should read the whole thread before commenting on this debate

[BustedS13]

The thought of millions of little pre teen stoners running around because it's legalized scares the crap out of me.

yeah, because tobacco and alcohol are legal for preteens too, right? and nobody in high school smokes pot right now because it's illegal, right?

[Walperstyle]

The difference is, in fucking Canada, their laws for marijuana are laughable.
so it's no wonder you don't see what the issue is, if i recall right growers can get a 5000 dollar fine. not 25 years in prison.

And i don't know whats worse, them driving while high, or you going with them and being ok with it. Or at the very least not stopping them.


Honestly IMO if you don't live in the states, your opinions on our discussions about any sort of US policy is completely invalid, you do not experience it, it being legal or illegal does not affect you in the slightest. get off your fucking high horse and go bitch about the long lines at hospitals or something.


I grew up in a border town, drugs are huge esp marijuana.
Marijuana dealers get more time then child molestors.




Let me tell you a story, someone very very close to me was molested multiple times as a child, they found pornography made by the perpetrator of at least 40+ young girls (ages 6-10).
He was indited and evaded arrest for 5 years. He plead guilty, he is out in 8 years on good behavior.

Someone who sells marijuana and is caught with over a pound + paraphernalia and intent to distribute. no other drugs at all, just weed.
min 15 years, usually 20.



How fucking backwards is that.


I don't care if what they are doing is illegal or not, that to me is saying marijuana dealers are worse to society than child molesters.

:picardfp: angry stoner is angry, thus bring up anything from left field to support agrument

[murda-c]

The government knows what's good for you.

Iunno why they havent outlawed cheeseburgers and pizza yet.