This months SCC - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

chuy · 05-28-2005, 07:23 PM

Did any of you noticed that the update about their S-13 240SX, that they were not happy with thier 300Z brakes. I was wondering if any of you were in the same boat.

mike13 · 05-28-2005, 09:09 PM

i locked up my 300zx front brakes last week and flat spotted a tire so bad that it needs replaced because of a horrible shimmy it produces.

Lurkable · 05-28-2005, 09:12 PM

I switched to 300z front brakes on my s14 because I experienced brake fade one day during 30 minutes of what I thought to be not-so-intense mountain driving. I painted them up real nice, installed them, and although I haven't really put them to the test, for normal driving so far I've had no problems, they work fine.

I've had none of this "mushy brakes" bs or any other problems resulting from not doing the full 4-caliper swap or not replacing my brake cylinder with that of a 300z - all things I've heard mentioned before, I wonder what people are talking about? Of course, I've never driven my car at a track or drift event, etc, so who knows, maybe I'll have those problems when the time comes.

HyperTek · 05-28-2005, 09:21 PM

full z32 f + r, mc, and ss brake lines.. no complaints soo far. But i havent driven any extreme stuff yet, but definatly big improvement, no brake fade yet

Ian · 05-28-2005, 09:42 PM

i went to the track for the first time yesterday actually. it is a very technical 19 turn 4 mile circut. Towards the end of the 20 minute sessions i was starting to experience some pretty crazy brake fade.

I only have 300zx fronts (iron) w/ slotted brembos and PBR Metal Master pads

OptionZero · 05-28-2005, 09:54 PM

thats due to your Metal Masters. Those aren't track ready pads.

Don't necessarily blame your calipers. New, high performance (Porterfield, Cobalt, etc) pads and proper bedding will go a long way. New rotors too.

chuy · 05-28-2005, 10:27 PM

Ive ridden in only 1 car that has the 300z conversion and the car felt really unstable when braking. Once when I switched to HP+s I actually got tired of driving on the track before I got any fade, its all stock except pads. I dont think that all that is necessary to have to have a good brake system. But its great to see how everyone feels about the set up.

240trainee · 05-28-2005, 10:31 PM

BTW, the SCC car doesn't have z32 calipers, it has the brembo kit with f50 calipers and big ass rotors. I will have full z32 brakes, front and rear, with HPs pads, and don't forsee any problems. its when you change half the brakes that problems might come, at least thats how I understand it. But we shall see....

wootwoot · 05-28-2005, 11:32 PM

I dont think they ever ran z32 fronts so are you just automatically assuming they diddnt like them?

kazuo · 05-28-2005, 11:43 PM

The brake kit they are running on the car is the Brembo GT kit for a Nissan 300ZX TT.

The caliper used in the kit is the same as the caliper used on a Ferrari F50.

http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/pr...via/index.html
Get it right.

Gjohnson7 · 05-29-2005, 07:21 AM

I'll be hooking up the 300zx calipers front and rear in the near future. But probably won't do alot of extreme driving.

krustindumm · 05-29-2005, 09:56 AM

My friends S14 locks up the fronts really quickly (and way before the rears) with 300zx brakes. I think a proper proportioning valve will go a long way. I get fade very very quickly on my S13 so I will probably go to Z32 brakes soon.

I ran a quick little road by my place and in 15 minutes my pedal was almost to the floor. I wasn't even running hard either (never took it above 4k rpm, because it was raining

)

ryan hagen · 05-29-2005, 10:44 AM

i did the vr4 rotor z32 brake combo, z32 front calipes, vr4 3kgt 12.25" rotors and z32 rearbrakes, and a z32 master cyl. i like the set up

cdlong · 05-29-2005, 10:46 AM

their issue isn't with fade, it's with front lock up and shuddering. they have really sticky tires on a very old chassis, i bet when they switch to the new chassis the problems will go away. the brakes and tires are just too much for that old, weak chassis and tired suspension to handle. if they had a factory balanced system they wouldn't have as many problems.

s14turbosilvia · 05-30-2005, 12:12 AM

theres a lot more that goes into a braking system than just calipers and rotors.
1) You have to take into account how hot your fluid is getting after 15 minutes of hard driving, and what temperatures it is designed to handle.
2) Also wether or not your lines were properly bled, and balance can be be greatly affected on wether or not you bled front and rear correctly and equally.
3) You also won't be able to brake as hard if your master cylinder can't push pistons on pads with enough preassure to make a large difference over stock.
4) Stock rubber lines are flexible, very flexible. If you run hot brake fluid through them, they will expand much easier than when the car is cold early on in the run.
5) And most importantly I'd say are pads. I've seen 10-30 feet cut off of 70-0 distances just with the addition of brake pads designed for higher heat and friction uses.
Get all the proper additions to your brake package and then you can make a fair judgement of it. I'd say with proper pads, lines, and fluid though, you should very rarely, if ever experience any brake fade over 20 or 30 minute track sessions, even on stock calipers and rotors.

raen419 · 05-30-2005, 12:51 AM

SCC is one of the best mags out, but as they explained in this month's issue, each car is overseen by a specific person on their staff. some of their staff isn't too bright. they should have gone w/ a complete z32 brake swap instead of "big ballin" w/ the brembo gt kit.

sideview_180sx · 05-30-2005, 01:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HyperTek

full z32 f + r, mc, and ss brake lines.. no complaints soo far. But i havent driven any extreme stuff yet, but definatly big improvement, no brake fade yet

you should bump up to some better pads once you get used to the feel of the brakes and get you e-brake lines adjsuted properly. Oh yah you need to learn to better modulate your braking. not bashing or anything, but as a driving standpoint you need to practice braking techniques. don't stomp the pedal, you need to squeeze it like a soft peach you want to eat.

HyperTek · 05-30-2005, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sideview_180sx

you should bump up to some better pads once you get used to the feel of the brakes and get you e-brake lines adjsuted properly. Oh yah you need to learn to better modulate your braking. not bashing or anything, but as a driving standpoint you need to practice braking techniques. don't stomp the pedal, you need to squeeze it like a soft peach you want to eat.

since when did my around the block brake breaking-in testing become considered my full fledged driving habit?

anyways, i havent been keeping up with scc... so they are getting rid of that s13 for another s13 chassis?? since all s13s are old, whats to say another one would be in better shape then the one they have??

CMO · 05-30-2005, 02:07 PM

I just did the 5 lug conversion on my s14. And I did new brake rotors and pads with the stock calipers on the rear. And 300zx calipers with brembo rotors on the front. The set up is a little mushy and if I stomp on the pedal. The front wheels will lock up, but I'm happy with it. I haven't got a chance to really put it to the test yet though.

Rennen · 05-30-2005, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raen419

SCC is one of the best mags out, but as they explained in this month's issue, each car is overseen by a specific person on their staff. some of their staff isn't too bright. they should have gone w/ a complete z32 brake swap instead of "big ballin" w/ the brembo gt kit.

SCC's sole purpose is to sell "big baller" kits to the types of folks who frequent this forum... so yeah. And its not that Coleman isn't too bright, its just that he sucks at driving, and apparently bedding in pads.

In an instance of supreme irony, this month's GRM has a nice article on how to address braking problems. Perhaps the SCC staff should read some real periodicals.

-Matt

raen419 · 05-30-2005, 09:56 PM

hahaha, good point

CMO, did you get z32 brake mc?
that kills the mushy feeling for most.

cdlong · 05-30-2005, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HyperTek

anyways, i havent been keeping up with scc... so they are getting rid of that s13 for another s13 chassis?? since all s13s are old, whats to say another one would be in better shape then the one they have??

their car has 300,000 miles on it. i seem to remember them buying it from a junkyard with 220K on it already, and you know those last 80k miles have been rough.

they are swapping all the parts over to a new chassis which i would imagine is going to be carefully selected and throughly reconstructed before they put anything new on it.

HyperTek · 05-30-2005, 10:55 PM

dammm 300k is alot.. lol

sideview_180sx · 05-31-2005, 12:09 AM

but as long as the chassis hasnt been thru hell(case in point) things should be fine. In regards to my previous post about your braking. Yah from all the time in your car you have that habit of stomping the pedal. Just because you bumped up to bigger brakes can only lead to you not changing your technique and doing the same thing.

nlzmo400r · 06-01-2005, 12:36 AM

ive got z32 brakes up front, and rotora rear rotors/pbr ceramic pads out back and stainless steel lines and dont have any brake fade. After running 2.5miles sessions of road course, with 5stops from 80mph I had no fade. Actually, my car is so slow (stock

) the only way I keep up with the faster cars is I kill in the braking zone,and gain bits here and there in the corners. But of course, im not that great of a driver, and need more practice before my car is as fast as it could be

infinitexsound · 06-01-2005, 01:08 AM

im pretty shure if u run a z32 front and stock rear, youll need a 15/16 MC... to have a better pedal feel then using ur stock 240sx mc, is use a z31 MC which is 15/16... =) brake fade on a 240sx with z32 fronts , rarely does that happen usually its problems arising from hot fluid... run something like motul... problem solved... dont run crappy pads... porterfields are great pads... and one of the only problems youll run into is having too much brake dust... blah... if your the type to run slotted or x drilled rotors... thats a plus.. but honestly i prefer stock z32 rotors...theyre fine... i think its stupid to swap chassis... stupid stupid stupid... if its a chassis problem its gotta be bushings in the suspension. .. those spot welds on the chassis isnt gonna stretch unless the car was in a collision of some sort...

HyperTek · 06-01-2005, 01:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sideview_180sx

but as long as the chassis hasnt been thru hell(case in point) things should be fine. In regards to my previous post about your braking. Yah from all the time in your car you have that habit of stomping the pedal. Just because you bumped up to bigger brakes can only lead to you not changing your technique and doing the same thing.

you know.. your an ass on the forums lol

infinitexsound · 06-01-2005, 02:35 AM

this is getting very :ghey: pretty soon

CMO · 06-01-2005, 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raen419

CMO, did you get z32 brake mc?
that kills the mushy feeling for most.

Nah I haven't got the z32 brake mc yet. I had to get the car up and running quick cause the tranny in my s13 went out. I'll do the z32 brake mc soon though.

05-28-2005, 07:23 PM	#1
chuy Zilvia Addict Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Colorado some where Age: 44 Posts: 623 Trader Rating: (2) Feedback Score: 2 reviews	This months SCC Did any of you noticed that the update about their S-13 240SX, that they were not happy with thier 300Z brakes. I was wondering if any of you were in the same boat. __________________ Slide Happy

05-28-2005, 09:09 PM	#2
mike13 Zilvia Addict Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Pittsburgh Age: 38 Posts: 691 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	i locked up my 300zx front brakes last week and flat spotted a tire so bad that it needs replaced because of a horrible shimmy it produces. __________________

05-28-2005, 09:12 PM	#3
Lurkable Zilvia Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: SF Bay Area Age: 35 Posts: 171 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	I switched to 300z front brakes on my s14 because I experienced brake fade one day during 30 minutes of what I thought to be not-so-intense mountain driving. I painted them up real nice, installed them, and although I haven't really put them to the test, for normal driving so far I've had no problems, they work fine. I've had none of this "mushy brakes" bs or any other problems resulting from not doing the full 4-caliper swap or not replacing my brake cylinder with that of a 300z - all things I've heard mentioned before, I wonder what people are talking about? Of course, I've never driven my car at a track or drift event, etc, so who knows, maybe I'll have those problems when the time comes. __________________ Rim: n. The circular outer part of a wheel, furthest from the axle. Rim: n. A circular metal structure around which a wheel tire is fitted. Wheel: n. A solid disk or a rigid circular ring connected by spokes to a hub, designed to turn around an axle passed through the center.

05-28-2005, 09:21 PM	#4
HyperTek Post Whore! Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Cali Posts: 13,222 Trader Rating: (3) Feedback Score: 3 reviews	full z32 f + r, mc, and ss brake lines.. no complaints soo far. But i havent driven any extreme stuff yet, but definatly big improvement, no brake fade yet __________________ Keep it Classy

05-28-2005, 10:27 PM	#7
chuy Zilvia Addict Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Colorado some where Age: 44 Posts: 623 Trader Rating: (2) Feedback Score: 2 reviews	Ive ridden in only 1 car that has the 300z conversion and the car felt really unstable when braking. Once when I switched to HP+s I actually got tired of driving on the track before I got any fade, its all stock except pads. I dont think that all that is necessary to have to have a good brake system. But its great to see how everyone feels about the set up. __________________ Slide Happy

05-28-2005, 09:54 PM	#6
OptionZero Post Whore! Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Norcal Age: 37 Posts: 6,262 Trader Rating: (2) Rides Gallery: OptionZero Feedback Score: 2 reviews	thats due to your Metal Masters. Those aren't track ready pads. Don't necessarily blame your calipers. New, high performance (Porterfield, Cobalt, etc) pads and proper bedding will go a long way. New rotors too.

05-28-2005, 10:31 PM	#8
240trainee Post Whore! Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Richmond, VA Age: 34 Posts: 3,861 Trader Rating: (1) Feedback Score: 1 reviews	BTW, the SCC car doesn't have z32 calipers, it has the brembo kit with f50 calipers and big ass rotors. I will have full z32 brakes, front and rear, with HPs pads, and don't forsee any problems. its when you change half the brakes that problems might come, at least thats how I understand it. But we shall see.... __________________ Team Pterodactyl SHARK ATTACK!!! LookoutDrift

05-28-2005, 11:32 PM	#9
wootwoot Post Whore! Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: sarasota florida biatch Age: 35 Posts: 3,850 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	I dont think they ever ran z32 fronts so are you just automatically assuming they diddnt like them? __________________ I'm from Florida so I'm probably a bit more strange than you

05-28-2005, 11:43 PM	#10
kazuo Post Whore! Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Posts: 2,762 Trader Rating: (3) Feedback Score: 3 reviews	The brake kit they are running on the car is the Brembo GT kit for a Nissan 300ZX TT. The caliper used in the kit is the same as the caliper used on a Ferrari F50. http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/pr...via/index.html Get it right.

05-29-2005, 07:21 AM	#11
Gjohnson7 Zilvia Addict Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Broken Arrow, OK Age: 40 Posts: 980 Trader Rating: (7) Feedback Score: 7 reviews	I'll be hooking up the 300zx calipers front and rear in the near future. But probably won't do alot of extreme driving. __________________ LSX Kouki Project, swap completed in Dec 09

05-29-2005, 09:56 AM	#12
krustindumm Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Iowa Age: 36 Posts: 473 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	My friends S14 locks up the fronts really quickly (and way before the rears) with 300zx brakes. I think a proper proportioning valve will go a long way. I get fade very very quickly on my S13 so I will probably go to Z32 brakes soon. I ran a quick little road by my place and in 15 minutes my pedal was almost to the floor. I wasn't even running hard either (never took it above 4k rpm, because it was raining ) __________________ ASE Master Technician

05-29-2005, 10:44 AM	#13
ryan hagen Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: rhinelander wisconsin Age: 38 Posts: 1,465 Trader Rating: (8) Feedback Score: 8 reviews	i did the vr4 rotor z32 brake combo, z32 front calipes, vr4 3kgt 12.25" rotors and z32 rearbrakes, and a z32 master cyl. i like the set up __________________ 1990 hatch ka24de gt2871r

05-29-2005, 10:46 AM	#14
cdlong Nissanaholic! Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Colorado Springs Age: 40 Posts: 1,845 Trader Rating: (0) Rides Gallery: cdlong Feedback Score: 0 reviews	their issue isn't with fade, it's with front lock up and shuddering. they have really sticky tires on a very old chassis, i bet when they switch to the new chassis the problems will go away. the brakes and tires are just too much for that old, weak chassis and tired suspension to handle. if they had a factory balanced system they wouldn't have as many problems. __________________

05-30-2005, 12:12 AM	#15
s14turbosilvia Zilvia Addict Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Michigan Posts: 825 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	theres a lot more that goes into a braking system than just calipers and rotors. 1) You have to take into account how hot your fluid is getting after 15 minutes of hard driving, and what temperatures it is designed to handle. 2) Also wether or not your lines were properly bled, and balance can be be greatly affected on wether or not you bled front and rear correctly and equally. 3) You also won't be able to brake as hard if your master cylinder can't push pistons on pads with enough preassure to make a large difference over stock. 4) Stock rubber lines are flexible, very flexible. If you run hot brake fluid through them, they will expand much easier than when the car is cold early on in the run. 5) And most importantly I'd say are pads. I've seen 10-30 feet cut off of 70-0 distances just with the addition of brake pads designed for higher heat and friction uses. Get all the proper additions to your brake package and then you can make a fair judgement of it. I'd say with proper pads, lines, and fluid though, you should very rarely, if ever experience any brake fade over 20 or 30 minute track sessions, even on stock calipers and rotors. __________________ 92 coupe, teh sex.

05-30-2005, 12:51 AM	#16
raen419 Zilvia Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Jasper, AL Age: 38 Posts: 253 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	SCC is one of the best mags out, but as they explained in this month's issue, each car is overseen by a specific person on their staff. some of their staff isn't too bright. they should have gone w/ a complete z32 brake swap instead of "big ballin" w/ the brembo gt kit.

05-30-2005, 02:07 PM	#19
CMO Leaky Injector Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: GA Age: 46 Posts: 77 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	I just did the 5 lug conversion on my s14. And I did new brake rotors and pads with the stock calipers on the rear. And 300zx calipers with brembo rotors on the front. The set up is a little mushy and if I stomp on the pedal. The front wheels will lock up, but I'm happy with it. I haven't got a chance to really put it to the test yet though.

05-30-2005, 09:56 PM	#21
raen419 Zilvia Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Jasper, AL Age: 38 Posts: 253 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	hahaha, good point CMO, did you get z32 brake mc? that kills the mushy feeling for most.

05-30-2005, 10:55 PM	#23
HyperTek Post Whore! Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Cali Posts: 13,222 Trader Rating: (3) Feedback Score: 3 reviews	dammm 300k is alot.. lol __________________ Keep it Classy

05-31-2005, 12:09 AM	#24
sideview_180sx Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: somewhere north of mexico Posts: 1,538 Trader Rating: (3) Feedback Score: 3 reviews	but as long as the chassis hasnt been thru hell(case in point) things should be fine. In regards to my previous post about your braking. Yah from all the time in your car you have that habit of stomping the pedal. Just because you bumped up to bigger brakes can only lead to you not changing your technique and doing the same thing. __________________ feel the rythym. feel the ride. get on up. it's bobsled time. COOL RUNNINGS!!! formerly sideviewcivic Save a Horse. Drift This Cowboy. AirBag Club Member #0014

06-01-2005, 12:36 AM	#25
nlzmo400r Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: louisiana Posts: 1,248 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	ive got z32 brakes up front, and rotora rear rotors/pbr ceramic pads out back and stainless steel lines and dont have any brake fade. After running 2.5miles sessions of road course, with 5stops from 80mph I had no fade. Actually, my car is so slow (stock ) the only way I keep up with the faster cars is I kill in the braking zone,and gain bits here and there in the corners. But of course, im not that great of a driver, and need more practice before my car is as fast as it could be __________________ 'my drinking team has a racing problem' [email protected] - gt32 .6bar

06-01-2005, 01:08 AM	#26
infinitexsound Post Whore! Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: INtraweb Age: 39 Posts: 3,522 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	im pretty shure if u run a z32 front and stock rear, youll need a 15/16 MC... to have a better pedal feel then using ur stock 240sx mc, is use a z31 MC which is 15/16... =) brake fade on a 240sx with z32 fronts , rarely does that happen usually its problems arising from hot fluid... run something like motul... problem solved... dont run crappy pads... porterfields are great pads... and one of the only problems youll run into is having too much brake dust... blah... if your the type to run slotted or x drilled rotors... thats a plus.. but honestly i prefer stock z32 rotors...theyre fine... i think its stupid to swap chassis... stupid stupid stupid... if its a chassis problem its gotta be bushings in the suspension. .. those spot welds on the chassis isnt gonna stretch unless the car was in a collision of some sort... __________________ S14 TrackSlut coming to a raceway near you... 510 TimeAttack on its way...

06-01-2005, 02:35 AM	#28
infinitexsound Post Whore! Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: INtraweb Age: 39 Posts: 3,522 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	this is getting very :ghey: pretty soon __________________ S14 TrackSlut coming to a raceway near you... 510 TimeAttack on its way...

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode