s14slider

I have been researching EVERY nissan forum you can imagine for this. I would like to know who has the highest whp on a NA KA24DE, what mods are done to the motor, and how reliable has it been. I know there are some internally stock NA KA's putting out some good hp, and I know of some high compression KA's that are up there as well. I think that if enough people post on here what all mods they have and what they got out of it, then there SHOULD NOT be these NOOBS EVERYWHERE asking, "what should I do to my motor to gain some hp?".

I don't know, I am bored and I thought this would be pretty cool. oh well

-Brandon

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RBS14

Highest HP n/a KA24DE is 298hp and 260ish tq. Those numbers are at the flywheel I believe. The NISMO offroad trucks run that engine. as for specs, good luck getting them to tell you. Nobody I know of has had any luck getting emails returned, with any of the racing teams that helped with the motors.

I'm nowhere in the same realm, but I'll be dynoing my ka soon. Doing the tuning now, and will have it polished off and dyno'd soon.

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infinitexsound

This is a race ready SCCA GT3 engine. Does not include flywheel, clutch, or mag PU bracket and carbs. These parts are available for additional cost.
Engine

* Engine Builder: Malcolm Garrett Racing Engines
* Manufacturer: Nissan
* Type: KA24E
* Displacement: 2400cc
* Induction: NMS intake w/insulators, ported by Rebello
* Heads: Head ported by Rebello
* Block: O-ringed, line bored & squared Nissan truck block
* Crankshaft: NMS crank w/modified oiling, lightened & nitrited
* Connecting Rods: Carrillo long rods
* Pistons: Weisco +.040 pistons, 13.5:1 CR
* Camshaft: Crane cam, springs, and retainers
* Valves: Ferrea modified JUDD intake valves, Manley custom exhaust
* Valve Train: Gerolamy modified rockers
* Total Time: 1hr. 45min.
* NMS dual roller chain drive & sprockets, outside oiling system w/modified turbo oil pump, Design Products gated road racing pan w/AN plumbing. Can easily be converted to dry sump, if desired.


this is a E of course.. but still the same daymn thing to me.......... cost of engine atleast 5-6k

and rebello seems to come up all the time..

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phrozen

i make 160 to the wheels with a used injen intake and used gehtto exhaust. no headers no nothin

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Jeff240sx

These motors listed are fully unstreetable, unworthwhile, and full-on race motors. I think (because he's asking about reliability) that he wants to do stuff to his motor, and figure out how high he can go reliably.

An ECU tune will put a good-running KA24DE at 150whp. 3" exhaust for about 160-165. Intake and header for 170-175. S13 cams (or s14 intake manifold - whichever you don't have) for 175-180. Underdrive pulley for 180-185. I think that's pretty much as far as it goes for bolt-ons. Furthermore, there's mroe aggressive camshafts for another 10whp or so, SOHC pistons for 11.x:1 compression, and about 20whp (5% per 1 point compression increase). ITBs like RBS14 did will net an unknown ammount of power. A custom-tuned standalone or dyno-rom tune will show gains of ~10whp more (and you'll need 370cc injectors). I think 225 at the wheels is a (somewhat) easily attainable, reliable ammount of power. But, the cost will be in the realm of a turbo kit.
-Jeff

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infinitexsound

that is true also........ thats why its so much cheaper to build a NA 12 valve then a 16

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OptionZero

jeff: is an engine with all that smogable in CA? have you heard anything?

Jeff240sx

Cams (aftermarket) may pose some problems.. you might need JWT cam gears to dial them a bit for emissions. Standalone will seriously help you tune for emissions, but a JWT ecu is carb-legal I think (they have a cali-model ecu, so I assume..). A header isn't CARB, but doesn't affect exhaust in the least, so I don't really know if it's required. Same with exhaust. As long as the cat is there, and you keep (or install) a resonator for sound laws.. its not different emissions. Increasing compression slightly raises emissions, but new rings will lower them vs. old, so there would probably be no net change. UD pulley doesn't affect emissions. Dunno if it needs a sticker or not?
Basically, if everything needs a CARB exemption sticker, then you're kinda screwed on the visual. If you find a smog-test only facility, you should pass the sniffer if you tune for emissions on the standalone (i.e. megasquirt or others) system and cam gears. I really don't know how the CARB EO sticker works, but I see them for K&N intake systems, so I think everything needs that sticker. Again... a 225whp NA KA should be able to detune and pass sniffer with ease.
-Jeff

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s14slider

Thanks for all of the input guys. Jeff is somewhat right about me wanting some ideas. I have been running an SR20DET for the past 2 and a half years, and I just want to play around with something different. Pretty much EVERY SR guy hates the thought of a KA-T and those who own one, but I have been doing a LOT of extensive research and I think that a KA24DE-T will be the way that I go. I should be happy with 300-350 whp and I know what all must be done to a KA to achieve that goal. It seems like that is my best option for now.......

But still keep on posting those NA records!

-Brandon

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RBS14

Yeah, Jeff is right in that the engines mentioned are completely undrivable on the street. For n/a motors, HP comes at the cost of drivability. You don't notice it as much as you start modding an n/a motor, but every thing you do makes it less drivable. Hell, some people would regard even my engine as a pain in the ass to drive, if given the chance. High HP n/a engines are VERY twitchy. However, the only thing I think Jeff might be wrong on is that his HP gain estimates might be on the high side. The bottom line is this; if you want some real power, staying n/a is NOT a viable option.

About CARB legal. No way. you have to have a CARB number for EVERYTHING that is not OEM in an engine bay. Air filter, header etc... and it doesn't matter if you still have a catalytic converter somewhere, it HAS to be OEM, and in the OEM position. Also, test-only stations are not smog stations that do only the sniffer. By law every smog test in California has to pass a visual inspection to pass the test. If you're going to modify your engine, you're going to have to be willing to pay the prices, in Cali at least...

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that180guy

i would say tuning a na motor on the street is a lot harder then doing a turbo motor, hands down. ive seen sentra guys running JWT C1 cams on the street......even with ecu mod's, lowest idle those suckers can keep is around 11-1200rpm.
NA ON THE STREET IS NOT THE BETTER OPTION(this is stated under the assumption that ur tryin to make some power)
its more of a, personal preferance. like personally me, i just love na, nothing can top screaming revs up to 8K rpms...or OMG HE SAID IT!!! VTEC is bad ass!!!! . i like small motors that rev. torque, blah blah blah, its what i like

10K can net maybe 300whp on a sr20de,
while u spend 10k on a det with all the trimmings....u can boost it to hell and make twice and proly not use the whole alotted 10k

but due to being a poor college student ...my super low miles 95 dock ka will be my toy
im thinking JWT C1 cams/valvetrain, ferrera valves rebuilt head. port matching of the manifold, removal of secondary butterflies, basic bolt ons, and AEM EMS. im looking to net maybe close to 190whp...id be happy as fuck.

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docrice

well high power N/A motors aren't totally unstreetable, it's just that the KA isn't the best platform for building one. Look at other motors like, for example, the sr20de, or most honda engines. of course, in this case you're usually looking at lower displacement motors that can rev, which is a limiting factor for the ka with its long stroke, etc. While these engines respond fairly well to N/A mods, the KA really won't go beyond about 170/180 whp without major work (ITB's or carbs, high compression, etc.) that makes it farther and farther from streetable. I'm not saying that the other motors don't use these tools to get higher hp, but the KA kinda hits a wall after a few bolt ons and can easily be surpassed by other NA engines. However, it does respond extremely well to boost, and it has a high tolerance to boost. i've heard a few stories of people running up to 13-15psi daily on stock ka's, but many people run up to 10psi daily with no problems at all. I dunno, maybe i'm not making sense, but that's my $0.02

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projectRDM

Over 200 wheel horsepower isn't even an option without serious machine work.

It's long been argued and the original pioneers back in the mid 90s had tried a lot of just bolt on attempts all the way up to SOHC pistons. My car with UR pulley set, short intake, S13 cams, aluminum flywheel, header, exhaust, ECU, HKS ignition, and aluminum driveshaft never broke 160. Another local with an S13 upgraded to 370s and did over five hours of dyno tuning with an AFC with the same list of mods I had, made 166whp. Rich Bjornson from way back in the day made 170 on an 11.1 comp motor, it was a rough tune and could have seen maybe 185whp with more tuning, but that's it.

You guys are a little unrealistic with your hopes.

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that180guy

r240na and docrice make very valid and true statements. the 200hp bar on a ka is near impossble on a ka with just boltons. and for an sr, you have a extreme lack of daily driveablity (even tho some guys do).

but im very confident that i will be able to make 180-90ish whp without cracking the bottom end of a ka or do any major machine work. ill post my results....hopefully around next spring

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ryan hagen

pdm doesnt have half that and they got 160+ with intake cams, pulley, exhaust, header, dont remember what else they did but they didnt cahnge the compression or the flywheel or even have a ecu or s-afc

"163 Rear Wheel Horsepower with PDM Dump Pipe on Dynojet "

they changed their gearing but i think that was only lately, they have had that dyno number up for about 3 years and u do your dyno run at 1:1 if i me right.

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ranisron

Shawn on altimas forum used to have a high comp built KA (DE)... didn't have dyno numbers, but again, all the bolts on + cams + JE pistons + JWT ECU.... the altima was in the high 13s...

Edit: the altimas put out 150 at the wheel with all bolts on (no cam, no ECU upgrade) 150 + hp at the wheel with some SAFC tuning...

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Jeff240sx

I don't think I'm on the high side. Mattback's crappy running '91 got a dyno tune by Scott (enthalpy) and made 160whp 150tq. I dropped about 10whp from this number guesstimating about a off the shelf JWT tune. Numerous dynos have shown 3" exhausts to give 10-15rwhp - SCC magazine and Alex from FA both repeated these power gains. Search FA for his independant dyno. Header and intake should give ~5whp each, simply due to how much the KA likes to breathe (the reason for the massive exhaust gain). 5hp from the s13 cams has to be a low estimate, or people wouldn't be buying the cams for $150/pair and spending 4 hours installing them. TY from FA showed something huge.. like 15-20hp at 300hp on his KA-T. If you already have a s13, removing the butterflies will give the same power gains (s13/s14 have the same hp, and s14 has mild cams. The intake manifold, mainly the lack of butterflies, is this difference).
I haven't seen a dyno on a Unorthodox pulley, but I know that underdriving gives massive gains on v8s. 5hp is very reasonable, I believe. 185rwhp for (600 ecu, 500 exhaust, 400 header/intake, 150 cams, 150 pulley) $1800.
Then, with machine work, SOHC slugs increase 1.6:1 cr. That's 8% increase, or 14.8whp at 185hp. That puts a NA KA at 200whp. Then, dyno tuned ecu or standalone will give back the 10whp I removed above (see Matts car). Aftermarket cams - PDM showed 15-20whp gains with theirs.. 220whp is doable fairly easily. But it'll cost about $3000.
RBS14 - How about rather than calling me wrong, you prove where I overestimated. I didn't do the math on the SOHC pistons, and said 20hp, and it was 15. OMGSUEME.
I really hate being called wrong without anything to back yourself up. I am actually using numbers I've seen, and being fairly conservative. Because everything working together makes more power than the sum of their parts. The cams will make more power as engine hp rises. Same with the high comp pistons.
-Jeff

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Jeff240sx

Russ, you're talking about SAFC tuning and things from wayback when. The KA market has exploded, and things like Megasquirt and dyno ecu tuning allows for massive increases due to timing adjustments. The cams that are out as much, much more aggressive.
Here's a thread about the first KA ecu dyno tune from Scott. http://tamparacing.com/forums/showth...&highlight=ecu

Unfortunately, the chart isn't up anymore. I'll ask Matt if he has it.
The car went from ~125-128whp to 160whp, with just the dyno tune.
NINE PULLS! Compare that to your friend's hours with an SAFC for minimal gains.

They did say the car ran iffy to begin with, but 125hp isn't that low from where most cars start - about 135whp.
Come on guys. Get off the NA can't make power bandwagon, and realize that current KA technology now drastically changes what can be done.
-Jeff

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orion::S14

Jeff -

I did the N/A thing for a LONG time before I tubo'd my KA...best I saw was ~160rwhp with cutom intke, header, exhaust, pulley, JWT ECU, base timing at 22, no emmisions, S13 cams, etc, etc...all the bolt-ons except a flywheel.

As Russ said, highest street N/A KA dyno I've ever seen is 171...and that was an 11:1 motor.

It's just not out there...if the KA was a good N/A motor, I'd have kept it N/A. All I wanted was 200rwhp, and that IS NOT achievable without FI.

Stroke is too long, rev limit too low...and not enough displacement for much more than ~170-175rwhp.

Trust me...I tried, Russ tried, Frankie tried, Rich Bjornson (sp?) tried, etc..and non of us ever got close to 180.

- Brian

EDIT: ANd I see you point about the newer technology, but that may be worth only a few HP, considering the limited revs.

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Jeff240sx

It seems to be hit or miss then. I've seen 165whp dyno sheets from people with next to nothing on their cars.. I never said it was a good NA motor, just that it can. But again, until someone is willing to drop $2-3000 for current products on an NA, its really hard to say it won't hit 200whp.
-Jeff

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phrozen

my friend makes almost 170 on his 91 ka. pretty stock with just intake, headers, pulley, flywheel, and exhaust. no fuel stuff just whats listed above

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019

there have been a few ppl that have "freak engines" and put down high #'s, like jeff mentioned. however most n/a ka's i've seen are like what brian and russ mentioned. i just dyno'ed my ka this past weekend and made 142 whp and 143 ft-lbs with a custom intake, 65 mm exhaust, s13 240/248 cams, and timing set at ~24*.

as far as 200+ whp ka, i have yet to actually see one myself. the highest hp ka i've ever seen was on the speakman racing s14 which i saw running at road atlanta. i talked to the guys that ran the car and they said they ran 11:1 or so compression. the engined dyno'ed at 208 hp, so that would still be like 178 whp or so, which is right along russ' estimate

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infinitexsound

i swear the east coast gets the best of the scca races... i wanna go to sebring.........

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RBS14

yeah, standalone tuning on a KA does yield very impressive results. AEM recorded some very impressive numbers with their setup, as have a couple other people. And what Jeff said about pulling more timing is very true. the stock KA24DE timing map at redline and wot has 26 degrees of timing. I'm at 40 degrees with my megasquirt, and have had no detonation. So there's a lot to be picked up in the timing map.

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kandyflip445

Has no one tried extrude honing anything?

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RBS14

Jeff, the power increases are in different parts of the powerband. Not all of them increase in the same spot. So while each part may increase power by that much, they won't be all in the same part of the power curve, yielding lower numbers. However I do plan on continuing with my n/a buildup, so with those parts/modifications, we'll see if I'm at 225rwhp. If I am, I'm calling it a day. I'd be sooooo damn happy wit that.

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Jeff240sx

Allright. I'm going to concede that 225 is hard to do. 200, however, should be very well attainable with current technology. That's what I'm sticking with. I know that 1-2 years ago, 175whp was hard to best.. I have a bit more trust in current products on the market.
And most of those items are top-end gainers. Exhaust, header, cams, ect. The pulley is gains across the board from underdriving, and more gains in upper rpms, ect. That's a general rule of NA tuning, is you shift the torque up top.
-Jeff

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RBS14

yeah, I'll definately agree that 200 is quite possible. Especially like you said, with today's parts, it'll be muich easier than before. It's just that after a certain point, each mod nets you less and less, because you are rapidly approaching the engine's volumetric efficiency maximum.

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wacko2

im reading other post of na ka, but has anybody pull that much power out there twin cam.

sirfallsalot243

These guys that are saying theyre making 170 with an intake header and exhaust.. i wanna see a dyno sheet, cuz im callin bullshit.

Either that or theyre on a dyno that tells you what you wanna hear.