Jeff240sx

Hey.  Yesterday my car started making a horrible squealing noise, and I know that my rotors are warped.  So I decided that something bieng broken is an excuse for an upgrade.

I need to know what brake rotors / pads are good.  I noticed that a lot of rotors are "Brembo cores" with someone like Powerslot changing them and charging less.  I don't see how.
And I have heard good things about EBC greenstuff pads.  I have about 2 days till I can buy brake stuff.
Also, should I get sloted, cross-drilled, or cross drilled and slotted.  Or plain, boring rotors.
HELP ME!!
-Jeff

West

I like slotted and drilled. Really is no difference but some people are concerned with the drilled rotors cracking.

Getting rotors and pads wont stop the squeeling brakes. Only a new braking system will, such as the 300ZX brakes.

EBC Pads are good. For a cheaper alternative consider Axxis Metal Matrix pads. I have ran these for years on all my cars.

Brembo rotors are my fav and you can find them for cheap on ebay. They are all really the same for the most part though.

I've heard that "boring brakes" would be better cause cross-drilled heat up slower, and therefore might cause your braking distance to increase.  If you really must, go for just slotted (cause of the cracking problems).

btw, changing warped rotors can help the squealing problem, depending on the type of squeal.  On my neon coupe, I had a warped rotor (little accident in the snow, oops) that was causing a squeal on every revolution.  If that is the type you have, then it can be fixed with new rotors.

Jeff240sx

Ok.
I now have 2 questions!
What cracking problem is associated with cross-drilled?  Why would Porsche and other supercar makers put them on stock?
and... a troubleshooting question.
My brakes are bad.  I know I have a warped rotor or two.  And my pads are low.
When I start, I get a cold brake squeal, which goes away after like 2 stops.  But recently, like yesterday and the day before, I was driving down the road and it would squeal for like ten minutes.  Then go away.  Then come back for an extended time.  
What the #### is that?  And will new pads/rotors fix that?  
Thanks... I'm lost on this brake crap!
-Jeff

West

Check the wear indicator on your brake pads. If they get down to a level of when they should be replaced they have a peice of metal that will constantly rub agains the rotor. It sound can come and go so check that first.

transient

I was talking to a guy about one of those supercars... can't remember if it was a porche or what, but it had vents in the body channeling air to the brakes, and he had to stuff up the vents because the rotors wouldn't heat up enough to work well.

The crossdrilled and slotted rotors are that way for a few reasons. None of them are actually cooling. Granted it helps a little, but when disc brakes started coming out the brake pads generated a gas while rubbing against the rotor, hence the holes to let the gas vent away and keep the brakes working

Another reason for drilled or slotted rotors is that they're lightweight. You wouldn't think this makes much of a difference, but since this is something that's turning pretty quickly, it really does make quite a difference.

The last reason is looks.

(Edited by transient at 5:28 am on Aug. 18, 2001)

Jeff240sx

Ok.. the ventilated rotors are better.
Last question...
What cracking problem on cross-drilled rotors?  Is it common?  I don't wanna spend $450 on rotors to have a couple crack on me!.
-Jeff

vancouvers14

if you just want looks, get cross-drilled
if you want to race seriuosly, get cross-drilled
if you race on the weekends a little bit, but mostly its a daily driver, dont get cross-drilled

I think its been said already but just for the sake of being bored i'll reiterate :-)  Your normal boring brakes are probably definitely best for everyday on road driving. I say this because its true that with the drilled ones it increases your stopping distance because they don't heat up as much. Personally i think this is the idea behind the drilled breaks. They're more for the purpose of racing and when you're coming into a corner you only wanna slow down, not lock your brakes up and put yourself into a slide. You lose more speed and some control. So i'd say drilled for racing and show cars whereas normal for everday use. They're safer for that purpose :-) I could be wrong and just sharing my ignorant opinion but its how i see it.

transient

The calipers are the things that should really be upgraded.

On the subject of rotors though... is there anyplace to get an oversized rotor that isn't crossdrilled or slotted?

anthony240

I get the squealing sometimes, but it's not consistent, so I don't have an excuse to get new brakes yet, dangit! But I do have balding tires, so that's an excuse for new tires <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'> and while I'm at it, suspension!

I'll be getting a brake upgrader sooner or later, I'm set on the 300zx brake upgrade from PDM racing.

Jeff240sx

Actually, since I am in the market for new rotors / pads... I am really thinking about the 300zx conversion.
I have seen a couple places to get somewhat cheap 300zx calipers, and another $300 gets me rotors and the PDM conversion lines.
I love broken stuff. &nbsp;It really is a great excuse to tell my girl I am spending a G on my car!
-Jeff

transient

Yup, That's the only reason i've got suspension upgrades right now <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

drifterx

dont waste your money on rear performance rotors unless you have to.... i have X drilled and they stop fast
i am using metallic pads with them though

misnomer

While we're on the subject of braking. . .

My s13 has developed a pretty nasty shake when I brake. It doesn't seem inherent to any degree of breaking, I feel it hard or soft braking from higher speeds. At low speeds there isn't a noticable shake, though it does feel like the rear end of my car is &quot;wagging&quot; side to side. Guaging by movement of other cars in my rearview, it may be as much as an inch or two. Anybody else heard of this problem or have suggestions to fix it?

drifterx

your rotors r probably warped so change the pads and rotor
checlk your back ones... u can do the whole front yourself for less than $175 for performance rotors and pads.... and for the rear u can get the stock pads at Autozone for $10

Kokomo

If you want max braking, no drills or slots...
if you have to deal with brake fade, slotted or cross-drilled. I recommend Hawk Performance or Endless street or mild race pads for max braking.

If you notice, all the GT and touring car series racers pretty much replace the stock cross-drilled with big fat solid rotors. Of course, they're vented to minimize brake fade. Nowadays, its fairly rare to encounter brake fade.

The reason for cross-drilled and slotted rotors is to get rid of heat faster (not retain too much). I doubt that even if you're doing autoX, you'll have to deal with brake fade on your rotors because of heat. Not to mention that since cross-drilling weakens the rotor structurally, better pads are even more likely to completely destroy the rotor. Slotted is the same idea but less structurally weak, but still put more wear on the pads.

Why will better brake pads destroy the rotors? If you want better braking, it means more metallic content. So if you put on rotor destroying, super squealing, dust cloud kicking full race Hawk performance pads on your cross-drilleds and do a lot of hard braking. Say goodbye to your rotors... the cross-drilleds will go crack/warp before the solids... but with full-race pads, you're going to destroy ANY rotor after enough use. The more performance you want out of a pad, the more it will squeal and kick dust.

I really don't like EBC greens... find a good pair of carbo-metallics and wax your rims so dust comes off easy. Live with the squealing, all modern brakes will squeal a little. Cross-drilled/slotted rotors do NOT make you stop faster because of less surface area.

I think JUN makes solid rotors and calipers but looks like for 300ZX. &nbsp;www.junusa.com

And why are you taking advice from a Porsche owner? =]

(Edited by Kokomo at 4:14 am on Aug. 21, 2001)

drifterx

but if your brake fluid heats up too much u cant stop either right?
i had stock rotors and brake pads on my car and then i raced.... the brakes took a beating and when i went to stop at the lights... i smelled my brakes burning and also my car would not stop....
i could stop again like 2 hrs later, cuz that was the time i got out from shotting pool.... but the brakes responce time was slower...
when i changed the rotors and pads.... i got X drilled and metallic pads.... i stopped alot faster... also i noticed the stock pad was fine but the stock rotors were kinda thin....
but i could not stop after i raced in the stock brake set

Kokomo

well, drifterx... looks like you got brake fade... too much heat in the brakes. &nbsp;Nothing to do with fluid...

metallic pads are better than stock organics. &nbsp;That will make you stop faster by itself. &nbsp;The cross-drilled or slotted are good for you then, you must be doing some massive braking to get fade! &nbsp;Do you do road racing drifterx? &nbsp;Or just brake-crazy autoX? &nbsp;Man, I usually only have 4-5 minute long runs...

Other route could be to just get bigger brakes and more ventilation. &nbsp;

drifterx

i have not gone to the track yet... i wanna go X cross at the track... this was street racing through the city of Boston
we raced from normal driving to a place that is &nbsp;10-15min at 65 mph through the heart of the city in heavy flow traffic and then we raced on a straight strip right before the location....
so the braking on the car was hard..... and at the lights everyone was like ####, your brakes smell.... at the same race, my friend's civic, he warped his rotors.... and my rotors were warped but they became flat again
haha

gt7152b

I've always heard that slotted and drilled rotors stop better because the pad can bite into that edge that is not there on smooth rotors. You guys are making it sound like they stop worse until they are heated up.

Jeff240sx

Somebody already said it, and I just read about it at PDM. &nbsp;X-drilled or slotted rotors are good. &nbsp;It is not about heating up if you use a good pad. &nbsp;The purpose of the slots / holes are to ventilate the gasses that build up between the pad and the rotor. &nbsp;The gasses expand and push the pad away from the rotor. &nbsp;Also... I don't know what pads you guys have that need to heat up, but most pads have a specific operating temp, and it's usually under 400 degrees F. &nbsp;I know that EBC's pads have a temp range that is EXTREMELY low. &nbsp;I think it's between 100 degrees (any day in south florida, the ambient air is 100 degrees) and 550. &nbsp;
-Jeff

HippoSleek

This is a follow up to the same topic on tech:

Mostly in response/addition to Kokomo and generally: &nbsp;Slots and drills are for gasses, not heat. &nbsp;You will not generate gasses with 240 calipers and organic or even carbo-metallic pads. &nbsp;They also reduce braking power b/c the area of the rotor is smaller so not as much clamping area = less force. &nbsp;Most heavy street/autoX/light track pads are rotor friendly - you only have to worry about extreme wear when using race only pads. &nbsp;Warping happens - no matter the pad/rotor/driver. &nbsp;That's just how they make them these days. &nbsp;A Civic will need rotors about every other stock pad set - I don't know about the 240 yet.

As for pads, look around and decide on your use. &nbsp;Hawk HP+ is fine for the street and many other light track pads will work well. &nbsp;I just ordered Carbotech's and I will review them after a track day in 3 weeks. &nbsp;Stock pads are fine for daily use, but are not powerful enough to compete with - once you go aftermarket you will not return! &nbsp;But yes, noise and dust will haunt you (thanks for the tip about wax <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>). &nbsp;Only the most extreme race pads are corrosive, however, so it is mostly just a PITA to clean your wheels. &nbsp;Also, remember to get the rotors turned when changing pads and give them time to seat - this will improve performance and longevity.

As for driving, I want to run where you do K-mo, my AX runs last about one minute. &nbsp;Track days are a longer story! &nbsp;OEM pads are only good for about 400 degrees which isn't much in a breaking system. &nbsp;Street battles (which are illegal and dangerous, keep it on the track) can take their toll due to the repeated brakeing. &nbsp;Remember, in addition to the ambient air temperature, there is constant friction with added pressure during brakeing. &nbsp;This = heat. &nbsp;Race pads work at over 2000 degrees!! &nbsp;With heat comes fade, which decreases with increasingly aggressive pads. &nbsp;Good aftermarket pads work at over 1000 degrees - you can understand the improvement. &nbsp;Also, to combat fade and when replacing pads, use a quality fluid like Motul 600. &nbsp;It is better able to withstand heat and will reduce fade. &nbsp;Ditto for SS lines (but not nearly as important). &nbsp;Hope this helps and is worth $0.02.

LanceS13

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from drifterx on 3:29 pm on Aug. 20, 2001
dont waste your money on rear performance rotors unless you have to.... i have X drilled and they stop fast
i am using metallic pads with them though

</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Unless somehow the 240 is an exception, upgrading just one end of the car will actually increase braking distance b/c the brake balance has been upset. &nbsp;I've seen this in a few different tests done by reputable magazines and internet sites.

HippoSleek

Unless somehow the 240 is an exception, upgrading just one end of the car will actually increase braking distance b/c the brake balance has been upset. I've seen this in a few different tests done by reputable magazines and internet sites.

I know the SCC test you are talking about and that is often true. &nbsp;BUT &nbsp;Stopping distance is not the only consideration, especially with pads. &nbsp;Heat and fade become bigger factors in track or auto X conditions. &nbsp;The bias problem comes into play when putting much larger rotors up front which changes the pressure in most braking systems and causes to rear to lock prematurely; &nbsp;Pads will upset bias also, but usually to a lesser degree. &nbsp;That's why it is important to talk to someone who has used the brakes you are looking at or a knowledgable person at the manufacturer. &nbsp;They will tell you if you need 2 or 4 pads and which ones will work best to increase stopping power without disrupting the bias/lock up. &nbsp;I seem to be a guinea pig with my pads and the guy I spoke with, who is a road racer who uses the same compound, said that I *should* be okay for lapping - its a wait and see.

HondakillaS14

Kind of off the subject, but mr left rear calliper I found out yesterday is hanging up and causing the car to vear right while driving and a horrible shudder at around the 55-60mph mark...this aside, I also noticed that there is a small rut (pencil tip thin) that has been grooved into my newly (two weeks old) x-drilled rotor. When replacing the calliper should I worry about such a small groove...it can't be rsurfaced can it????Any help guys?<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'>