180sxmaniac

Make sure you get a 2013 model. 2.0t or V6?

RB24_S14

I traded in my 400whp RB25 S14 Kouki for a Z33. Even though I gave up the power the Z chassis is a lot better. I love how the 350Z stock drives better then 240s modded. I have driven the FRS and even though it looks and feels good it does not compare to any Z. I drove a 370Z and I fell in love! I hope I can buy one soon.

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460whp 350Z

HyperTek

So anyone have any thoughts on the 86 theft rate blowing up in the future due to the drift scene?

Seems like only a Z enthusiast like Zs, so bandwagon theft shouldn't be bad, at least i dont think.

As soon as a future fast and furious movie features one drifting around... lol

I wouldn't exclude the S2000, I still think they are pretty nice. Of course though I don't know how crazy you guys are about drop tops.

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180sxmaniac

1st mod should always be quick release and lock,lo jack wouldn't be a bad idea,the theft is from the Honda community,but no theft won't be a problem in the T86 community

stevenwhite1989

My friend has had AP1, GC 2.0T, AP2, now an FRS. In that order. I have driven all of those as well as an early 350z. If I had to pick between all of these it would be an AP1, put a hardtop on it, and enjoy every aspect of the car. They are pretty quick in a straight line, they handle extremely well, and with some negotiation it will drift. Get one for sub 12K thats been had by some old lady, and you are in great shape.

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Girlfriend: "Why isnt yours (240) as pretty as his (240)?"

LockOn!

Am I the only one who hates the drivers position in a 350z? To me it feels like a roadster with my ass over the rear wheels, kind of like a s2000 or an FD. Personally I can't stand that feeling.

They really nailed the drivers position in the ZN6. That difference alone is enough to sway me.

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Agamemnon

Please explain.

mewantkouki

It takes some getting used to. I felt really weird coming from an s14 to a 350z.

KravingAKouki

The 335i, despite its bad rap, is a great car. Dont get me wrong, the FRS/BRZ's sleek design, and tight interior giving that race inspired feel is why I like them, but the 350z isnt far off. I love both cars being argued, but I think the 335i isnt as bad as everyone says it is. If you drive the car right, with minimal thrashing, and do proper maintenance, the car is flawless. If you look up the common problems, and add those into routine inspections, the car will hardly fail on you. I have been working on my buddies car (335i) who is not car savvy, and he barely thrashes the thing. It is a clean gentleman's car, with that kick you want when desired. I favor the toyota's styling for daily purposes, but the nissan for track use. Just can deny nissan's.

casperiv

I'm probably in the minority, but here are my thoughts having had one of every Z, MR2's, RX-7's, an S2000, a BRZ, and a lot of other random cars, trucks, and bikes.

The 350Z is very meh. I don't even consider it a Z after spending so much time in S30 and Z32 cars. I had very high hopes for it initially, but after only a couple months I gave up on it. Having all the other cars to compare it to, it simply isn't a good car. It is under powered, has a poorly matched suspension to chassis, a cheap interior, and is about a "beige" as you can be an still have a sports car. It was honestly one of the few cars that I spent time with that I left feeling it had completely wasted my time. In my opinion it should never have been release as it was. I think it was rushed out to meet Honda's challenges and that the 370Z was closer to what it should have been.

The BRZ/FR-S is completely different. It is a true drivers car and looks much better. Even with the low horse power, it is a much more skillful tool. The chassis is better, the distribution and balance is better, etc. If the car had been either lighter or had more power, it would have been "too perfect" for OEM and the price point. Think of it this way, the price starts around $25,000... that's $10,000 to $15,000 less than an S2000 and there has been over 10 years of inflation. The options on the Toyoburu blow the S2K and 350Z out of the water as well. Traction control, stability control, digital/analog gauges, dual zone climate, standard nav with blue tooth... it's a lot of extras you would have had to pack in (if even offered) on the others.

The BRZ I bought was for my wife. I wanted to keep the S2000, but she didn't like driving the 6 speed daily and really didn't like the idea of driving it in the snow. The BRZ is perfect, just turn on the nannies and snow mode and she is off. I personally preferred the S2000 in most bad weather (I hate electronics messing with my brakes/throttle) but the BRZ has served well so far. I just drove it through some mountain passes on my vacation and it performed well. A 350Z or S2000 would have had more climbing ability, but the little BRZ did an amazing job on rapid direction changes and braking.

Next year I will be boosting her BRZ, probably installing coilovers, adding an oil cooler, and swapping out the wheels/tires. Sure, I will probably end up with another $5000 to $10000 into the car, but then it will be a Cayman killing wifey car.

At the end of the day I still prefer my 240Z and am most excited about seeing it on the road again soon.

simmode1

Man, I wholeheartedly doubt that. As much as I'd love the GC 2.0T to triumph, the FRS/BRZ is the most hyped car I've ever seen short of the release of R35 GTR. But at least the GTR put down indisputable numbers & crushed its competition. I think the FRS is beating the GC in sales from the hype & the GC is merely doing respectable numbers for its segment. No idea how their sales compare to the 370z though.

Even if Toyota/Subaru went against what they've said about how they're never going to factory turbo the car... The car's price would balloon past $30k before mark up.

Hoping that the FRS/BRZ get a factory turbo is like hoping the Genesis coupe will get the sedan's 5.0 V8... Pipe dreaming.

simmode1

The 2013 model yeal for the Genesis coupe was a game changer for both the 2.0T and the 3.8L V6. Aside from the facelift the car got, both got big bumps in power but the prices remained about the same generally.

The 2013 2.0T went from having 210hp with 215ft/lbs to 260hp with 270ft/lbs. This is courtesy of a bigger, more responsive turbo & intercooler. But the developement has been relatively slow for the 2013 turbo model due to its integrated turbo+manifold design, which the previous models didn't feature. But there's still alot of potential to be tapped there. Just cracking the 2013 2.0T's ecu yields gains of 290hp with 340ft/lbs.

The 2013 3.8L V6 got direct injection, so it's gas mileage improved & its power went from 306hp to 348hp. It's ecu has also been cracked too, but I can't quote specifics because I never cared enuff about the V6 to look into it.

Here's my gripe about FRS vs 2013 GC 2.0T:
- They're the same price, but in stock form the GC is MUCH faster/more powerful despite the FRS's superior driving feel.
- First upgrade to do on an FRS/BRZ? Sticky tires. Now you can match the stock GC's lap times.
- First upgrade on the GC? Reflash the ecu for probably less than the FRS/BRZ's tires cost. Now the 86 is eating your dust again.

And I don't think most ppl are aware that Hyundai built in adjustable camber into the GC from the factory. As soon you roll it off the showroom floor, you can dial in up to -2 degrees immediately with no other mods needed. But no reviewer I've seen mentions this as they compare its handling to the FRS/BRZ twins.

But in order for the FRS/BRZ to match or exceed the performance numbers of the GC 2.0T, it's gonna need to add about ~$6000 onto the price of the car for some kinda forced induction. Great. Maybe then it'll match the stock numbers from the 3.8L V6 GC at the expense of its warranty and reliability. I just don't like boosting engines that were N/A from the factory. Its alot of work and the margin for error is much greater. I'd much rather deal with improving a car's handling woes than trying to reengineer its motor to reliably handle boost. Catastrophic engine failure just ain't my cup of tea.

fliprayzin240sx

My problem with the GC is that the facelift made the car ugly as shit...

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supersayianjim

so pretty much the ft86 is the new miata, fun, good handling but slow as fak!!

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casperiv

Numbers are not worth buying a car over especially when the stats are so close. The Genesis 2.0T R-Spec is 0-60 in 5.7 and 1/4 in 14.1 where as the BRZ/FR-S/GT86 is 0-60 in 6.4 and 1/4 14.9 out of the box. Those standing run times are not very far apart considering the power disparity of 74HP... and they are due to the weights. A GC runs nearly 3400lbs curb and the Toyoburu runs 2750ish. That is also why they drive so different and why after driving both, I preferred the Toyoburu (among other things). I will bet that I can give the little Toyoburu 74HP for less than you will need to remove 600lbs from the GC, while in the process keeping more creature comforts.

Have you driven a Genesis? I'm curious what you liked about it. When we were shopping I drove one a couple times and I didn't like it much. The vehicle is not very neutral and has a very hard time being driven like a sports car. The transmission is problematic, the extra weight makes it a bit slow to respond, and the engine "feels" laggy. I didn't like either cars engine actually.

If you just care about numbers, why not just buy something used? It would be nearly impossible for either car to beat the numbers of a 300ZXTT, S2000, or Corvette with the difference in price dumped into parts. I would wager a person looking to buy a new car isn't buying one worrying which one is faster for arm chair racing.

PS: In reference to your $6000 figure, that is fairly accurate, but it will gain you a lot more than what the Genesis has. For instance a Full Blown Stage 1 kit will give approximately 300WHP (significantly more than the 2.0T R-Spec). FBM swapped to a GTX35R and was able to push 521HP from the stock motor... which is an absurd amount for the chassis.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAiC9...layer_embedded

casperiv

Pretty much. Although, the engine in the FT86 is better than what Mazda kept shoving into the Miata. It was the next evolution of the Miata, a fun, great handling little car that dominated it's class in autocross. If you try to turn it into a big number car, you will probably be really disappointed and will almost certainly ruin the cars high points.

Nismo_sam

Z all the way, I've owned a nismo edition for 5 years now and I have yet to find a car i enjoy driving more (yes, i've driven plenty of cars) The Z is just so stable, comfortable, and confidence inspiring while pushing it hard. I know I won't be giving mine up for a longggg time. Not knocking the FT86 though, just needs more power for me to enjoy it, but man it sure is hard to say no to a Hot Lava FR-S.

fliprayzin240sx

But not gay like the miata...

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Cats

Id go with a stock 350z over a frs anyday.

Agamemnon

Yeah, I get all that. I just dont like the idea of passing on the '10-'11 models. Why not get a low mileage 2010 with the 3.8L V6 at 314hp and just forget the 2.0T? More HP, better looks than the 2013, and you'd be saving some coin rather than buying brand new.

simmode1

I dunno, man. For two cars so similar in price, those performance numbers are a big disparitiy, IMO. A few laps around a track will only compound them.

Yeah, I test drove a 2013 2.0T 6spd maybe 2 months ago. Didn't really get to lay into it or anything, but it's great from what I'd be using it for on a daily basis: passing slower traffic on the highway. All this talk of precision track driving and the feel of conquering the touge bullshit is lost on me. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate it. But that's not how most of these cars are gonna get used. They're gonna be doing spirited highway pulls back and forth from work & the grocery store or where ever. Most ppl will never get a chance to experience the 86's defining glory, but every one can lay down rubber and enjoy the GC's passing power.

I thought the GC handled better than anything I'd ever owned, thats for sure. The 6spd manual did have a weird little delay, but that gets eliminated in the SFR reflash, so I didn't care much.

I liked the GC because it's got alot of relatively easy to attain performance potential while maintaining it's creature comforts. And the interior of the 2013 is really nice, IMO. Much better than the previous model and the FRS/BRZ's interior is doggie doodoo by comparison. I'm looking for something a little more upscale, and the GC was origianally developed to compete with the G35/G37 coupes. The 86 can't hold a candle to it in that department, IMO. The 86's interior isn't likely to impress any girl I'd date, but the GC's quality would surprise them.

As for used cars, yeah, sure. I like the GC but I'll probably never get own. I'd aiming for a truck like the Tacoma X-Runner as a daily driver & support vehicle to whatever next disposable drift slut I move onto... Z31 turbo, SR swapped Miata, etc...

STR8 H8N

simmode1

^^^What an asshole. I hate convertible Z33's even more than FRS's. Talk about ugly as all fuck. I probably would have just gotten into the FRS and done donuts around that guy's assuredly auto 350.

Ghosty

^But dem wheels and dat spoiler! It is best top down summer car evar mang

simmode1

Lol! As for convertibles in that Z33's price range... I fell in love with the Sky Redline. The lil Baby Corvette is a nice little package thats sexy as hell and full of turbo charged fun. Hell, I'd take one of these over an FRS as well.

casperiv

Neither the GC or the BRZ/FR-S are race cars. Basing a decision on lap time of a specific track is never going to work because the winner is different based on track event structure. Miata's are extremely slow (compared to both of these) and are the dominant force in most autocross events in the hands of a good driver.

It must be a matter of preference. I don't like the GC interior. It's flashy but with few real features and too many "fake" features (like the stitching, dead panels, etc). In fact, I hate that aspect of the new Z's. The BRZ has hands free bluetooth, nav, etc standard. The GC has to have some of it added as options. When it was said and done to get the same features the quote I received for a GC was $33,000 and was meh to drive. Of course, my previous cars have been pretty top of their class so I'm a little bias.

I would be all over the GC if the interior were a little less boy racer Honda and a little more German like, as well as being 700lbs lighter. I don't love the BRZ/FR-S interior either... I just disliked it less than the other options in the category.

Obviously opinions differ widely, as there are still people who buy things like the Pontiac Aztec and Toyota Prius lol. Having had a Z31, I would skip it. The Miata will blow the Z31 chassis out of the water regardless of which engine you run. I would also look at the S2000 since they are becoming rather cheap. I swapped an SR into my 240Z and have been rebuilding it from the ground up. The entire car will not weigh much over 2,000lbs so balancing power is as easy as a heavy car.

My next project will probably be built on an FD3 or S2000... maybe another Z32 since they are pretty darn durable

simmode1

You are correct that neither the FRS or GC are race cars, but their real world performance numbers can be helpful in the decision making process. It's gonna have to be an awfully tiny track for the FRS to real capitalize on its advantages over the GC, but in terms of real world performance, it just ain't gonna happen. No real way around that.

Ultimately it comes down to what the buyer places greater value on: tactile feel & driver sensation or superior speed & performance. The 2 cars really or apples and oranges. On the basis of performance, they should be comparing the GC 2.0T to the BWM 328I/128I, while the 3.8L V6 should compare to the 335I and G37 coupe. The only commonality between the GC & FRS is the price. But I will also mention that Hyundai's Bluelink system is another upscale feature which broadens it's BMW/Inifinti comparisons & is also something that I want. Scion/Toyota aren't offering creature comforts like that yet.

I think i may take your advice on the Z31 though. I like the engine but that suspension really is a headache to improve. I wouldn't mind an S2000 but I'll pass on that if I'm already financing an X-runner. That just leaves N/A Miatas or another S-chassis that I can pick up for cheap. Maybe an E36 toy might not be so bad. I like Z32's and if I find a TT for the right price, thats an option. But I'd rather prefer something super simple and we all know the Z32TT is anything but simple under the hood.

180sxmaniac

Sorta but its not slow,its just not as fast as its competition. T86 would dust any stock Miata

fliprayzin240sx

Dusting a miata...not so much... Car & Driver just did a side by side comparison and they're dead even for the most part.

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13esim

Ill take a GT86. Just lovew this car and wish i could afford one now. My friend has one that Ive been helping with though, and she is looking pretty good



@ REVGASM Are you using the stock Ebrake or do you have a hydro?