Does anyone really notice a difference between coilover brands? - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

raz0rbladez909 · 07-30-2010, 01:09 PM

I know many of us on this forum who actually want the best coilover possible for their application, on the other hand there are many people who are on a budget who want the best bang for their buck. Realistically spring rate being the same, do you think you would even notice a difference whether you were running on brand name or "Megan type companies"? Personally I used to run teins on my s13, but when I got my z33 I got a good deal on some Megan Tracks from a friend of mine who said he was really impressed by them, he too was coming from an s-chassis with tein super drifts. Not trying to compare the two brands straight up it made me wonder, what does everyone else look for when choosing their coilovers? I've heard many people recommend stance because you can buy any individual piece that you need in the US. Just got me curious if any of you could really tell the difference between a few cars all set up the same but with different coilovers?

drifter_for_life06 · 07-30-2010, 01:41 PM

majority of coilovers are all made by the same manufacturer, then labeled differently. Main difference is gonna be in valving

Schassis707 · 07-30-2010, 02:53 PM

I think most are considerably the same only difference is noted spring rate and some have more ways of damening force and ways to adjust them, the only thing I've noticed is the way people have them set up, my teins are on full stiff and for daily it hella bouncy but it turns way better and makes up for the bouncy ride

5pecialist · 07-30-2010, 02:58 PM

I'm mainly looking at price, since I am no longer a baller. If I can save $50 on non-adjustables... even better

drift freaq · 07-30-2010, 03:03 PM

Well coming from Tein Super Drifts is nothing to write home about. LOL I mean seriously Megan tracks are nothing special and neither are the Teins.

I have had several different brands and ridden on several different brands. The differences come down to valving and springs. FWIW Tein springs suck. There valving is not great either.
Megan is bouncy most all Japanese coilovers are as well.

There are a couple of budget brands that are ok Stance, Dmax, KTS. Tein Flexs are ok but I find problems with almost all of the above listed and I consider Megans to be below them.

Ride on some Koni's or Bilsteins sometime to notice a really good shock.

Ohlins are good but again designed for smoother roads. AST(aka Aragosta) are considered pretty excellent as well.

Tanabe 7's are supposed to be pretty damn good but you will pay for them. The higher end Japanese stuff stands chance of being decent but honestly for the most part all coilovers coming out of Japan/Korea/China are not going to be phenomenal. The Japanese ones are based on the fact that they have smooth roads, except for the poor folks in Okinawa. LOL
Given that they can get away with a stiff spring poor damper setup and have it ride ok.

The real test of damper is how it performs on a less than smooth road as that will really show its rebound and compression characteristics.

The best damper that will not kill you in pricing would be a Koni. Unfortunately to many of you are gun shy to the idea of setting up your own coilover setup to take advantage of it.
In fact some of you want to say they are not real coilovers because you set them up yourself.

Fact is your misinformed. a Coilover is technically what comes on our cars stock. As all coilover stands for is coil spring over a shock. That is the technical definition.

Oh and its a myth that you have to sacrifice ride quality for better handling. Bouncy does not mean better. It basically means shit. LOL

5pecialist · 07-30-2010, 03:19 PM

I see what you're getting at... but they are really "MacPherson struts", which are a commodity/disposable form of "coilovers". But this is all semantics... when someone asks for a Kleenex, I don't say "all I have is a tissue". Coilover has become slang like Kleenex (for better or worse).

The best "coilovers" I've experienced were on a Ferrari 360CS. Smooth yet able to handle high speeds & turns with ease. I have no idea who makes the OEM's for Ferrari. Bilstein I think.

MrChow · 07-30-2010, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wikipedia

A coilover is an automobile suspension device. "Coilover" is short for "coil spring over strut". It consists of a shock absorber with a coil spring encircling it. The shock absorber and spring are assembled as a unit prior to installation, and are replaced as a unit when the shock absorber has leaked. This provides for optimal damping without torsional loads. Some coilovers allow adjustment of ride height and stiffness, using a simple threaded spring perch similar to a nut. More advanced adjustable coilover systems will use a threaded shock body, coupled with an adjustable lower mount for ride height adjustment, while an adjustment knob is used to adjust damping, commonly referred to as "stiffness." Spring rate also plays a role in stiffness.

Is that helpful??

But it's just like freaq said it comes down to the struts/shocks and how they are designed, built and valved.

raz0rbladez909 · 07-30-2010, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrChow

Is that helpful??

But it's just like freaq said it comes down to the struts/shocks and how they are designed, built and valved.

Well I know what a coilover is dude so thats really no help for this discussion. But what Drift Freaq explained pretty much was what I was looking for, i've heard great stuff about koni's and i've done a small amount of research in the past with this stuff. It just didn't make sense to me when people will knock someone for buying Megan, but then they'll jerk each other off to buy Stance when they probably couldn't tell the difference between the two anyway. I'd like to try a spring/shock combo down the line like Drift Freaq is referring to, I just couldn't understand if it was brandwhoring or if everyone could just tell a difference that I wasn't noticing. Thanks for the informative posts fellas

GSXRJJordan · 07-30-2010, 04:34 PM

If you can't tell the difference between Stance and Megan on the street and at different valving levels, /wrists.

I'm very impressed with my Tein Monoflex's on my FD with Swift springs but that's a ~$2400 setup. As Dave said, Tein springs suck, but the valving's not bad.

*ManoNegra* · 07-30-2010, 04:59 PM

I can tell the difference
I have experience on Tein HE - S13 and S14
Stances
Zeals B6
Koni Yellows on Ground Control set up
AST 4100 and 5000 series

worst being the HEs, best being the 5000 series ASTs
as has been said, bumpy crappy roads will set apart the good stuff over the crap
of them all, I felt the Koni Yellows were the best for a daily set up

I have a set of JDM ohlins for the S13 that need rebuilding
and a set of Zeal Function XDs for the S14 that I haven't gotten around to installing
it'd be interesting to find out how well those perform

*slider2828* · 07-30-2010, 05:01 PM

All springs suck on sub 2000 coils period....

I say middle of the road stuff stance or pbm or what not.... is lose lose... Your paying more money for stuff that is minutely better....

Low end stuff is win lose.... Cheap that is a win, the actual coil performance sucks but can go low and can do something with but still over all performance dept is a lose....

Go just a little above, which is KW V3, amazing coils for the price 1500 and is a lot better than stance and middle of the road stuff... so win win.... I venture might be better than monoflex, people say the springs on mono's are really soft.... especially from 350z guys and couple of other people....

Really expensive stuff like moton, aragosta, quantums, dg5's, Zeal Function X's.... lose lose for most... Pay a LOT of money but won't use it right.... Cause those things are all custom valving spring rate etc (THAT is what you pay for).... but 90% of peeps are never going to get that anyways, so lots of moeny for something peeps don't understand and test for.... so never going to get fully the benefits of something like that... so eh....

Personally rode in Stance's and I hated them..... Truthfully, I felt they were like glorified megan tracks.... But the guy had gr pro's maybe ssd? but it was blah....

KW's are nice

MrChow · 07-30-2010, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slider2828

Personally rode in Stance's and I hated them..... Truthfully, I felt they were like glorified megan tracks.... But the guy had gr pro's maybe ssd? but it was blah....

KW's are nice

Really? I love my GR+ Pro's. Did he even set the preload? The rear need to be set with some preload or they just suck IMO
Come drive my car Ken this week and UFO autox!!

Genex626 · 07-30-2010, 07:10 PM

Yes u can tell the diffrence

Def · 07-30-2010, 07:51 PM

All the sub $1300ish "preassembled" coilover systems generally suck. There might be small differences in quality control/thought put into valving, but when you're using a crappy damper body, the end result is never going to be good. Plus the fact that they're using dirt cheap stuff in the first place shows just how much emphasis they were putting on "good performance" in the first place.

I'd put K-Sport, D2, lower to mid end Teins, Stance, KTS, Buddy Club, *insert all the other coilovers basically made by BC or the few other manuf* about equal. For the most part you are paying for the "name" and "more street cred" as you move up the ranks - not much else.

KW V3's are badass for a daily driven car that might see track usage every once in a while. So are Koni Yellows + a put together coilover setup. You can't go super slammed low, but the performance after spending anywhere from $700-1100(depending on how crafty you are with sourcing components) will blow away anything else you can buy off the shelf at that price point.

Koni 8611/8610's are a step up, in the same league as the middle end(4100/4200) AST's for end result IMO(only felt AST's on BMWs, but have a lot of suspension experience with them, so I'm pretty comfortable with that assessment). The advantage of sourcing your own setup IMO is using quality springs. I have about $1800 in my 8611/8610 setup(got some components used like the coilover sleeves and some springs), and with that I have springs I spec'd the rate on that are accurate within 2% stated rate, and dampers valved for actual track usage.

There is nicer stuff beyond that(Motons, possibly higher end AST stuff - never ridden in a car with it, JRZ - these are very nice etc). You're talking SERIOUS money at this point though, so you probably know quite a bit about suspension or are going to pay someone to tell you before you take this jump.

Each of the last groups I talked about have a clear jump in performance from the previous group.

Corbic · 07-31-2010, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drifter_for_life06

majority of coilovers are all made by the same manufacturer, then labeled differently.

Lies. I believe Ksport and Megan are the same/similar.

Apexi, Tein, Swift, Eibach, PBM, Auto Fortune, Penski, Koni, HKS, Tokico et al are going to have their own source of manufacture.

Godspeed are simply made from recycled garbage and stick-welded together by sla-ahemn forc-er cheap labor.

Def · 07-31-2010, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corbic

Lies. I believe Ksport and Megan are the same/similar.

Apexi, Tein, Swift, Eibach, PBM, Auto Fortune, Penski, Koni, HKS, Tokico et al are going to have their own source of manufacture.

Godspeed are simply made from recycled garbage and stick-welded together by sla-ahemn forc-er cheap labor.

Most cheaper coilovers are made in Taiwan/China by one of a few manufacturers. Fortune Autos look like rebadged BC coilovers. They will do a run and anodize them whatever color and "brand" them.

Megan and Apex'i stuff is the same these days. Swift and Eibach don't even make dampers AFAIK.

Corbic · 08-01-2010, 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Def

Most cheaper coilovers are made in Taiwan/China by one of a few manufacturers. Fortune Autos look like rebadged BC coilovers. They will do a run and anodize them whatever color and "brand" them.

Megan and Apex'i stuff is the same these days. Swift and Eibach don't even make dampers AFAIK.

Made in China/Twain and "are the same" are two very different things. Megan and Apexi are made in by the same factory, but they are not the "Same". There is a different window of tolerances and spec on them.

Swift, I was thinking of SPL which uses Swift springs.

Eibach makes coilover kits.

I don't know anything about BC, but I do know that FA does have a ISO rating, which may not mean they make a better product, but it does mean they have a quality system in place which ensures repeatability and uniformity in their product. So I order a set, you order a set - they will be the same.

Here is a list of the Twain manufacturing companies that build coilovers and other aftermarket automotive parts.

http://www.manufacturers.com.tw/vehi...facturers.html

You contact them, give them a spec, requirement and price and they will build you a product essentially. So, Tai Master Enterprise may make both BR and FA, but that does not make BR and FA the SAME, it just means its the same manufacturing facility, your product, customer service, warranty service et al can very greatly.

GM makes both the Cobalt and the Astra, both are priced similar, offer the same features and may even share a few components... but they are not the same car or brand.

*fliprayzin240sx* · 08-01-2010, 05:00 PM

I can tell you that my Cusco Zero1s (non-dampened adjustable) sucked compared to MRs but both those sucked compared to my Topline Aragostas.

slideways2004 · 08-01-2010, 05:18 PM

who does this topic get started every other week?

The answer is as simple as what is your budget? If you can afford high end, buy high end. If all you can afford is Godspeed, then go for that.

A few of my team-mates have stance and I really liked the valving. Our cars are setup very similar so I went with Stance because I could afford them.

*Wake* · 08-01-2010, 05:30 PM

I wish I could afford Aragostas but I will be going with Apex NI drifts with swift springs.

I think 90% its going to take a combination of top manufacturers to get the proper results, you rarely see a car with only one brands parts on it, all the top time attack and drift cars use carefully formulated race results and use the info to decide on what parts are best for them. Rarely do you see all one brand on a company demo car, HKS is one of the few companies I can think of that only use in house parts and Im sure you can find some example of them using another company or having something built by another company.

Def · 08-01-2010, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corbic

Made in China/Twain and "are the same" are two very different things. Megan and Apexi are made in by the same factory, but they are not the "Same". There is a different window of tolerances and spec on them.

Swift, I was thinking of SPL which uses Swift springs.

Eibach makes coilover kits.

I don't know anything about BC, but I do know that FA does have a ISO rating, which may not mean they make a better product, but it does mean they have a quality system in place which ensures repeatability and uniformity in their product. So I order a set, you order a set - they will be the same.

Here is a list of the Twain manufacturing companies that build coilovers and other aftermarket automotive parts.

Coilover Manufacturers :B2BManufactures.Com For Taiwan and China Coilover Manufacturers Manufacturers and Coilover Manufacturers Suppliers

You contact them, give them a spec, requirement and price and they will build you a product essentially. So, Tai Master Enterprise may make both BR and FA, but that does not make BR and FA the SAME, it just means its the same manufacturing facility, your product, customer service, warranty service et al can very greatly.

GM makes both the Cobalt and the Astra, both are priced similar, offer the same features and may even share a few components... but they are not the same car or brand.

The same factory = same basic damper design. The valving might differ slightly between the two coilovers, but they're the same for all intents and purposes. Which is what I originally said.

You can't polish a turd, and most of these cheap coilovers use bad designs with no R&D behind the valving. They are not digressive, and more than once I've seen cars go SLOWER by fitting a set of cheap coilovers than on stock suspension(it takes someone that can actually drive to push both to their limits).

Most people equate less body roll = faster. Not near that simple.

I realize you guys want to defend your "cheap" coilovers, as you were probably budget limited, but the fact is, they're all about equally crappy in the grand scheme of things. It also takes quite a bit of seat time and a sensitive butt dyno to even have a vague notion of if a damper is good or not. I've ridden in cars with most of the lower end stuff, and especially once you get someone that has no idea what they're doing turning the knobs, it can go from generally bad to downright horrible. Stiffer doesn't equal faster if you've got ridiculously high bump forces(the usual for these cheap needle valve coilovers without a digressive curve), and the rebound is far far too soft at low piston velocities if you get something that will let the suspension do its thing over bumps. Conversely, you run more rebound to try to control the body at low shaft velocities, and you'll find the high speed rebound is such that the first bump you hit in a corner you're going to skitter out an alarming amount.

It's stuff like that that'll make a "stiffer" suspension slower than a good condition stock setup.

Def · 08-01-2010, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WakeBHR

I wish I could afford Aragostas but I will be going with Apex NI drifts with swift springs.

I think 90% its going to take a combination of top manufacturers to get the proper results, you rarely see a car with only one brands parts on it, all the top time attack and drift cars use carefully formulated race results and use the info to decide on what parts are best for them. Rarely do you see all one brand on a company demo car, HKS is one of the few companies I can think of that only use in house parts and Im sure you can find some example of them using another company or having something built by another company.

I still have no idea why Swift springs are so popular with the Zilvia crowd on absolutely dirt cheap dampers - but here's a tip:

If you're going to spend one dollar more on suspension/coilovers and you're below about $1.5-2k invested, spend the extra money on better dampers. Having some super expensive springs with some JDM hype behind them or being 2 oz lighter is not going to make a big difference when you have a very poorly tuned damper trying to control the car.

Eibachs and Hypercoils are better springs than ANYBODY on this forum can "complain about" - and they're cheaper and readily available in all sizes and rates. Go that route and save yourself some money if you feel you need to change spring rates. But I'd still recommend better dampers over fussing with springs for whatever Zilvia reasoning thinks they'll make the car faster.

*Wake* · 08-01-2010, 07:26 PM

Oh I was talking about for my DD/part time drift car
I didnt realize we were talking about track use only. And Im planning on a completely different setup for my dedicated track car.
But since when are Apexi considered dirt cheap dampers?
Ive had a lot of people tell me they dont like em but none of those people have any experience with them and cant give me a reason why they dont like them. I mean its kinda hard to argue with the amount of R&D that goes into their products in my opinion.

and this is why chose to go with Apexi and i have compared them to other coils on S13s both as driver and passenger. (from the Apex'i website)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apex'i USA

The ExV was designed to cater exclusively to US market vehicles. With this in mind, internal components have been specifically engineered to withstand harsher road conditions and increased wear caused by everyday street driving. The Expert Type V was developed based upon user requests for a high performance damper that doesn't carry a typical racing suspension price tag.

Also why havent I heard anyone in here say anything about PBM's?

Sam_Well.13 · 08-01-2010, 07:34 PM

ive got Megan track's on my S13 and i love the way they ride...

ive also driven and rode my friends S13 with godspeed, another friends S14 with K-sport...

and i think out of the 3...the megan was the best bang for your buck...in my opinion.

im yet to try stance GR+ pro or even fortune coilovers

Corbic · 08-01-2010, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Def

The same factory = same basic damper design. The valving might differ slightly between the two coilovers, but they're the same for all intents and purposes. Which is what I originally said.

Hogwash. All struts/dampers/shocks are of the "basic same design". Its the materials used and the valving that makes the difference. Also, as I stated, another factor is customer service and warranty. That has value.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Def

You can't polish a turd, and most of these cheap coilovers use bad designs with no R&D behind the valving. They are not digressive, and more than once I've seen cars go SLOWER by fitting a set of cheap coilovers than on stock suspension(it takes someone that can actually drive to push both to their limits).

Most people equate less body roll = faster. Not near that simple.

Actually, in everything I've read... no one gives a crap about "going faster". They want to slam their car (even though that rapes suspension angle and few (PBM being the only one really) seem to try and correct the issues with slamming their cars suspension.

Slammed car, and good street ride with long term durability. Also, when you say "Faster" are you talking on the street or track? That makes a huge difference in the type of damping and spring rate you want.

The problem with most of these coil-overs is the damping can not keep up, or is not designed for the springs being used. Megan Race Coils for example started out as just the standard Megan with harder springs.

As for R&D... do they really need any? Do you really think HKS or any of the other "name brands" do that much R&D into valving and spring rates? They offer a product that gets you in a ball-part and offers a good amount of alignment adjustment. once again, that's all 90% of us want and use.

So run out, buy that custom Penski set-up... which by the way, will be made off only the R&D you supply, shell out 10k and lets see "how much faster you are".

If you notice, all the "entry market" coil-brands have "competitive" race cars in various series, Ksport, Fortune Auto, Megan, et al. While their suspension may not be giving the winning edge, it's also not making them "uncompetitive" with the competition's set ups.

Also are you suggesting that Eibach is a BS knock-off set-up?

Please understand the market and customers before ranting and raving about inexpensive coil-overs next time.

-Cliff Notes

Variation in Quality and Customer Service from "Japanese style Coils"
Cost effective for Lowering Car, Changing Suspension alignment.
Customers what Slammed cars, not "optimum race setup- fast cars"

Corbic · 08-01-2010, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WakeBHR

Also why havent I heard anyone in here say anything about PBM's?

Because around here, PBM is god, yet their Coil-Overs are made in Twain and priced in accordance with all the other Entry Level set ups... and as such, we now have a problem.

It's cool to bash "entry/knock-off coil overs" but how can you at the same time praise PBM when their coils supposedly come from the same source as all the garbage?

Quality Control- Better hardware, better anodized finish, tighter tolerances specs requested by the Customer (ie PBM) from the source of manufacture.

Why is a iMac a better laptop then a Acer.. even though bother are made in China?

Apple has a higher demand of quality components then Acer.

n240sxfnatic · 08-01-2010, 08:39 PM

derp
MINI COOPER :: North American Motoring - Swift Springs dynoed

*Wake* · 08-01-2010, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corbic

Because around here, PBM is god, yet their Coil-Overs are made in Twain and priced in accordance with all the other Entry Level set ups... and as such, we now have a problem.

It's cool to bash "entry/knock-off coil overs" but how can you at the same time praise PBM when their coils supposedly come from the same source as all the garbage?

Quality Control- Better hardware, better anodized finish, tighter tolerances specs requested by the Customer (ie PBM) from the source of manufacture.

Why is a iMac a better laptop then a Acer.. even though bother are made in China?

Apple has a higher demand of quality components then Acer.

I dont know if you are arguing my statement or if we were arguing the same point, But my statement before was poking fun at the facts that you just brought to light about PBM, and no one talking bad about it.

When I referenced bigger companies (Apex'i, HKS) doing R&D is the amount of track and Race experience they both have as companies. You cant really compare a company that has had a track car for a couple years and managed to get some feedback to the manufacturer in Taiwan or wherever. I mean in my opinion the biggest reason these companies have been around for so long because they make quality parts that have been proven over and over.

But all in all I think we have the same point of view for the most part.

mademedoit · 08-02-2010, 12:04 AM

I would recomend my coilovers Tanabe Sustec S-OC thier made in Japan and I got them on ebay for only 750. They don't come with the front camber plates but you can buy a set of them seperate and then reuse the rear ones. Driving on the street on realy rough roads these are sometimes even more comfortable than the stock sus. ecept on tar strips you definitly feel those. Yet I autocross my car and their stiff enough that I don't think I would benifit much from aftermarket swaybars. I've had these for over two years now and when I adjusted the rear height this weekend the treads still look new and were easy to adjust, I think their stainless steel. I almost got tein basics but in pic's I saw of them insalled on someones car the black treads sometimes had surface rust. As for K-sport, PBM, and other aluminum coilovers, just my opinon but in certain componets that see alot of stress like macpherson struts I don't trust repacing a steel part with a weaker material. On the z32 rear aluminum uprights for instance look how much thicker they have to be than the cast iron ones 240's have.

Tanabe USA Inc. - Sustec Pro S-0C Coilover

The springs they use are the same as thier race car, quoted from their site...

PRO210 is a fixed diameter, linear high performance coil spring for use on adjustable coilover suspensions. It is used on all Tanabe Sustec Pro suspensions, and the technology is used in ALL Tanabe performance coil springs.
The PRO210 spring was developed through many years of R&D and tested on JGTC and N1 endurance cars on Japan's fastest circuits. Our involvement was necessary to produce a spring of extreme quality, durability, and lightweightedness, made to exact specifications to meet the needs of circuit racing. Various materials were tested, and it was found that SWI200 steel alloy would prove to be the most durable if manufactured properly. Materials such as titanium were tested, but titanium had exhibited shortened durability and was also very expensive. Through a highly advanced manufacturing process, an amazing tensile strength of 2100nm was acheived using only SWI200 steel alloy. No other manufacturer has been able to reach this level of strength in a coil spring-- even those that use more expensive materials to strengthen their coil spring.

In the JGTC GT500 class, our springs were used in the Takata Dome Racing Honda NSX.
Tanabe USA Inc. - PRO210 Max Custom Springs

They come like this and you get to have fun building them.

Def · 08-02-2010, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corbic

Hogwash. All struts/dampers/shocks are of the "basic same design". Its the materials used and the valving that makes the difference. Also, as I stated, another factor is customer service and warranty. That has value.

You know nothing of damper design then. The pistons of the cheap Taiwanese junk are far different than even run of the mill Koni's/Bilsteins. Basic damper design (twin tube vs. monotube) isn't as big a deal as a well designed piston. Piston design differs at all damper pricepoints. If what you say is true, you could just toss in some different shim stacks into a cheap Taiwanese coilover and get a curve that looks like a JRZ or Koni 2817. Let me save you the trouble of googling it - it is impossible.

Quote:

Actually, in everything I've read... no one gives a crap about "going faster". They want to slam their car (even though that rapes suspension angle and few (PBM being the only one really) seem to try and correct the issues with slamming their cars suspension.

Slammed car, and good street ride with long term durability. Also, when you say "Faster" are you talking on the street or track? That makes a huge difference in the type of damping and spring rate you want.

The problem with most of these coil-overs is the damping can not keep up, or is not designed for the springs being used. Megan Race Coils for example started out as just the standard Megan with harder springs.

As for R&D... do they really need any? Do you really think HKS or any of the other "name brands" do that much R&D into valving and spring rates? They offer a product that gets you in a ball-part and offers a good amount of alignment adjustment. once again, that's all 90% of us want and use.

So run out, buy that custom Penski set-up... which by the way, will be made off only the R&D you supply, shell out 10k and lets see "how much faster you are".

If you notice, all the "entry market" coil-brands have "competitive" race cars in various series, Ksport, Fortune Auto, Megan, et al. While their suspension may not be giving the winning edge, it's also not making them "uncompetitive" with the competition's set ups.

Also are you suggesting that Eibach is a BS knock-off set-up?

Please understand the market and customers before ranting and raving about inexpensive coil-overs next time.

-Cliff Notes

Variation in Quality and Customer Service from "Japanese style Coils"
Cost effective for Lowering Car, Changing Suspension alignment.
Customers what Slammed cars, not "optimum race setup- fast cars"

A bunch of drivel and "what if's" in here, but I'll respond to some of it.

Yes, most on here don't care about a decent suspension other than "how low it can go" - that's not what this thread is about though.

A well controlled ride via good dampers yields a good ride on the street and track.

Yes, the good damper companies put in quite a bit of R&D into new products. I imagine the Japanese companies that are on the better end of the spectrum tend to do the same thing. When HKS doesn't spring for tons of R&D it looks like they pick and choose the best North American/rest of the world manufacturer to make their stuff with HKS branding(like their turbos, or SARD with Stack dashes etc).

You don't need to spend $10k on a Penske setup to resounding destroy any of the "entry level" coilovers.

Sometimes a car/driver is somewhat fast against their competiion regardless of a bad setup, especially at the "amateur" level most of these cars are competing in. In fact, I'd say the average club racer car could probably hand the majority of these cars their ass since they're likely using something like a simple Koni/Bilstein setup.

I never said Eibach was a "BS knock-off setup," but obviously that pic isn't an S chassis coilover setup, and I'm pretty sure they don't make one for our cars. So what's your point other than trying to not look like an ass?

Quote:

Please understand the market and customers before ranting and raving about inexpensive coil-overs next time.

I know *far* more about "the market" and "customers" than you do obviously. How long have you sold stuff to this community? I've been doing it for a few years now. Now, it's still designed to make you go faster vs. "slamming" your ride, but I'd say I have a very solid grasp on the community.

So let me sum it up for you. You're an internet keyboard warrior. You don't know much about suspension design/construction. You probably couldn't tell the difference between a Megan coilover vs. a set of 4-way JRZ's by riding in a car. And you're picking a fight with the wrong guy on this topic.

07-30-2010, 01:41 PM	#2
drifter_for_life06 Zilvia Addict Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: New Freedom, PA Age: 33 Posts: 775 Trader Rating: (6) Feedback Score: 6 reviews	majority of coilovers are all made by the same manufacturer, then labeled differently. Main difference is gonna be in valving __________________ RPS13: +.020" 2871r 264's AEM EMS http://enjukuracing.com/#_l_4s

07-30-2010, 03:03 PM	#5
drift freaq R.I.P. Aya, always love Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Los Feliz/Hollywood Posts: 18,558 Trader Rating: (215) Rides Gallery: drift freaq Feedback Score: 215 reviews	Well coming from Tein Super Drifts is nothing to write home about. LOL I mean seriously Megan tracks are nothing special and neither are the Teins. I have had several different brands and ridden on several different brands. The differences come down to valving and springs. FWIW Tein springs suck. There valving is not great either. Megan is bouncy most all Japanese coilovers are as well. There are a couple of budget brands that are ok Stance, Dmax, KTS. Tein Flexs are ok but I find problems with almost all of the above listed and I consider Megans to be below them. Ride on some Koni's or Bilsteins sometime to notice a really good shock. Ohlins are good but again designed for smoother roads. AST(aka Aragosta) are considered pretty excellent as well. Tanabe 7's are supposed to be pretty damn good but you will pay for them. The higher end Japanese stuff stands chance of being decent but honestly for the most part all coilovers coming out of Japan/Korea/China are not going to be phenomenal. The Japanese ones are based on the fact that they have smooth roads, except for the poor folks in Okinawa. LOL Given that they can get away with a stiff spring poor damper setup and have it ride ok. The real test of damper is how it performs on a less than smooth road as that will really show its rebound and compression characteristics. The best damper that will not kill you in pricing would be a Koni. Unfortunately to many of you are gun shy to the idea of setting up your own coilover setup to take advantage of it. In fact some of you want to say they are not real coilovers because you set them up yourself. Fact is your misinformed. a Coilover is technically what comes on our cars stock. As all coilover stands for is coil spring over a shock. That is the technical definition. Oh and its a myth that you have to sacrifice ride quality for better handling. Bouncy does not mean better. It basically means shit. LOL __________________ "Having a lot of tracks on a song is like putting stickers on a car to get more horsepower" New Video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uebV1OnbRsw Buy my mounts! http://zilvia.net/f/sale-items/51531...ns-mounts.html http://zilvia.net/f/tech-talk/317539...e-mouts-6.html

07-30-2010, 04:34 PM	#9
GSXRJJordan Post Whore! Join Date: May 2006 Location: << 626 >> Posts: 9,135 Trader Rating: (19) Rides Gallery: GSXRJJordan Feedback Score: 19 reviews	If you can't tell the difference between Stance and Megan on the street and at different valving levels, /wrists. I'm very impressed with my Tein Monoflex's on my FD with Swift springs but that's a ~$2400 setup. As Dave said, Tein springs suck, but the valving's not bad. __________________ Jordan Innovations has a new web site! www.JordanInnovations.com -- All your favorite FD Pro Drifters love it, trust me -- www.JordanInnovations.com

07-30-2010, 05:01 PM	#11
slider2828 Premium Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 5,824 Trader Rating: (13) Feedback Score: 13 reviews	All springs suck on sub 2000 coils period.... I say middle of the road stuff stance or pbm or what not.... is lose lose... Your paying more money for stuff that is minutely better.... Low end stuff is win lose.... Cheap that is a win, the actual coil performance sucks but can go low and can do something with but still over all performance dept is a lose.... Go just a little above, which is KW V3, amazing coils for the price 1500 and is a lot better than stance and middle of the road stuff... so win win.... I venture might be better than monoflex, people say the springs on mono's are really soft.... especially from 350z guys and couple of other people.... Really expensive stuff like moton, aragosta, quantums, dg5's, Zeal Function X's.... lose lose for most... Pay a LOT of money but won't use it right.... Cause those things are all custom valving spring rate etc (THAT is what you pay for).... but 90% of peeps are never going to get that anyways, so lots of moeny for something peeps don't understand and test for.... so never going to get fully the benefits of something like that... so eh.... Personally rode in Stance's and I hated them..... Truthfully, I felt they were like glorified megan tracks.... But the guy had gr pro's maybe ssd? but it was blah.... KW's are nice __________________ Turn and Burn!

07-30-2010, 07:51 PM	#14
Def Post Whore! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 2,701 Trader Rating: (16) Feedback Score: 16 reviews	All the sub $1300ish "preassembled" coilover systems generally suck. There might be small differences in quality control/thought put into valving, but when you're using a crappy damper body, the end result is never going to be good. Plus the fact that they're using dirt cheap stuff in the first place shows just how much emphasis they were putting on "good performance" in the first place. I'd put K-Sport, D2, lower to mid end Teins, Stance, KTS, Buddy Club, insert all the other coilovers basically made by BC or the few other manuf about equal. For the most part you are paying for the "name" and "more street cred" as you move up the ranks - not much else. KW V3's are badass for a daily driven car that might see track usage every once in a while. So are Koni Yellows + a put together coilover setup. You can't go super slammed low, but the performance after spending anywhere from $700-1100(depending on how crafty you are with sourcing components) will blow away anything else you can buy off the shelf at that price point. Koni 8611/8610's are a step up, in the same league as the middle end(4100/4200) AST's for end result IMO(only felt AST's on BMWs, but have a lot of suspension experience with them, so I'm pretty comfortable with that assessment). The advantage of sourcing your own setup IMO is using quality springs. I have about $1800 in my 8611/8610 setup(got some components used like the coilover sleeves and some springs), and with that I have springs I spec'd the rate on that are accurate within 2% stated rate, and dampers valved for actual track usage. There is nicer stuff beyond that(Motons, possibly higher end AST stuff - never ridden in a car with it, JRZ - these are very nice etc). You're talking SERIOUS money at this point though, so you probably know quite a bit about suspension or are going to pay someone to tell you before you take this jump. Each of the last groups I talked about have a clear jump in performance from the previous group. __________________ S13 Hatch - Goes around tracks quickly DEFSPORT

07-30-2010, 02:58 PM	#4
5pecialist Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: (at rock bottom) Posts: 442 Trader Rating: (1) Feedback Score: 1 reviews	I'm mainly looking at price, since I am no longer a baller. If I can save $50 on non-adjustables... even better

07-30-2010, 03:19 PM	#6
5pecialist Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: (at rock bottom) Posts: 442 Trader Rating: (1) Feedback Score: 1 reviews	I see what you're getting at... but they are really "MacPherson struts", which are a commodity/disposable form of "coilovers". But this is all semantics... when someone asks for a Kleenex, I don't say "all I have is a tissue". Coilover has become slang like Kleenex (for better or worse). The best "coilovers" I've experienced were on a Ferrari 360CS. Smooth yet able to handle high speeds & turns with ease. I have no idea who makes the OEM's for Ferrari. Bilstein I think.

07-30-2010, 04:59 PM	#10
ManoNegra Guild of Skullduggerous Intent Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Socal Posts: 7,841 Trader Rating: (48) Feedback Score: 48 reviews	I can tell the difference I have experience on Tein HE - S13 and S14 Stances Zeals B6 Koni Yellows on Ground Control set up AST 4100 and 5000 series worst being the HEs, best being the 5000 series ASTs as has been said, bumpy crappy roads will set apart the good stuff over the crap of them all, I felt the Koni Yellows were the best for a daily set up I have a set of JDM ohlins for the S13 that need rebuilding and a set of Zeal Function XDs for the S14 that I haven't gotten around to installing it'd be interesting to find out how well those perform

07-30-2010, 07:10 PM	#13
Genex626 BANNED Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: socal Age: 33 Posts: 74 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Yes u can tell the diffrence

08-01-2010, 05:00 PM	#18
fliprayzin240sx Man w/ CTSV & a Car Seat Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Tampa Posts: 17,998 Trader Rating: (19) Rides Gallery: fliprayzin240sx Feedback Score: 19 reviews	I can tell you that my Cusco Zero1s (non-dampened adjustable) sucked compared to MRs but both those sucked compared to my Topline Aragostas. __________________ If you think Zilvia has too many assholes... CLICK HERE!!!

08-01-2010, 05:18 PM	#19
slideways2004 Nissanaholic! Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Houston Age: 35 Posts: 1,706 Trader Rating: (6) Feedback Score: 6 reviews	who does this topic get started every other week? The answer is as simple as what is your budget? If you can afford high end, buy high end. If all you can afford is Godspeed, then go for that. A few of my team-mates have stance and I really liked the valving. Our cars are setup very similar so I went with Stance because I could afford them. __________________ http://essencegarage.wordpress.com/

08-01-2010, 05:30 PM	#20
Wake Premium Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Santa Cruz, ca Age: 38 Posts: 6,699 Trader Rating: (8) Feedback Score: 8 reviews	I wish I could afford Aragostas but I will be going with Apex NI drifts with swift springs. I think 90% its going to take a combination of top manufacturers to get the proper results, you rarely see a car with only one brands parts on it, all the top time attack and drift cars use carefully formulated race results and use the info to decide on what parts are best for them. Rarely do you see all one brand on a company demo car, HKS is one of the few companies I can think of that only use in house parts and Im sure you can find some example of them using another company or having something built by another company. __________________ S.P.P.S. Member #00 CoUpe LOve Member #00

08-01-2010, 07:34 PM	#24
Sam_Well.13 BANNED Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Costa Mesa Posts: 855 Trader Rating: (5) Feedback Score: 5 reviews	ive got Megan track's on my S13 and i love the way they ride... ive also driven and rode my friends S13 with godspeed, another friends S14 with K-sport... and i think out of the 3...the megan was the best bang for your buck...in my opinion. im yet to try stance GR+ pro or even fortune coilovers

08-01-2010, 08:39 PM	#27
n240sxfnatic Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: West Des Moines, Ia Age: 33 Posts: 493 Trader Rating: (6) Feedback Score: 6 reviews	derp MINI COOPER :: North American Motoring - Swift Springs dynoed

08-02-2010, 12:04 AM	#29
mademedoit Leaky Injector Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Las Vegas Age: 37 Posts: 134 Trader Rating: (1) Feedback Score: 1 reviews	I would recomend my coilovers Tanabe Sustec S-OC thier made in Japan and I got them on ebay for only 750. They don't come with the front camber plates but you can buy a set of them seperate and then reuse the rear ones. Driving on the street on realy rough roads these are sometimes even more comfortable than the stock sus. ecept on tar strips you definitly feel those. Yet I autocross my car and their stiff enough that I don't think I would benifit much from aftermarket swaybars. I've had these for over two years now and when I adjusted the rear height this weekend the treads still look new and were easy to adjust, I think their stainless steel. I almost got tein basics but in pic's I saw of them insalled on someones car the black treads sometimes had surface rust. As for K-sport, PBM, and other aluminum coilovers, just my opinon but in certain componets that see alot of stress like macpherson struts I don't trust repacing a steel part with a weaker material. On the z32 rear aluminum uprights for instance look how much thicker they have to be than the cast iron ones 240's have. Tanabe USA Inc. - Sustec Pro S-0C Coilover The springs they use are the same as thier race car, quoted from their site... PRO210 is a fixed diameter, linear high performance coil spring for use on adjustable coilover suspensions. It is used on all Tanabe Sustec Pro suspensions, and the technology is used in ALL Tanabe performance coil springs. The PRO210 spring was developed through many years of R&D and tested on JGTC and N1 endurance cars on Japan's fastest circuits. Our involvement was necessary to produce a spring of extreme quality, durability, and lightweightedness, made to exact specifications to meet the needs of circuit racing. Various materials were tested, and it was found that SWI200 steel alloy would prove to be the most durable if manufactured properly. Materials such as titanium were tested, but titanium had exhibited shortened durability and was also very expensive. Through a highly advanced manufacturing process, an amazing tensile strength of 2100nm was acheived using only SWI200 steel alloy. No other manufacturer has been able to reach this level of strength in a coil spring-- even those that use more expensive materials to strengthen their coil spring. In the JGTC GT500 class, our springs were used in the Takata Dome Racing Honda NSX. Tanabe USA Inc. - PRO210 Max Custom Springs They come like this and you get to have fun building them.

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