sr arp main studs cracked oil pan, wtf? pics - Page 2 - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

jr_ss · 07-26-2011, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by s14unimog

so back on topic, how much interference is it? Shit I'm only swapping to these b/c its a "while I'm in here, I can afford it, it can't hurt" upgrade; lol.

S14DB, the difference in clamping forces is that different between the two?

I would say it's close to an 1/8" of interference, definitely not more than that though... It was a pain in the ass to clearance though. I think I pulled the upper pan more times clearancing for the mains, than I ever will in a life time.

codyace · 07-26-2011, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jr_ss

I would say it's close to an 1/8" of interference, definitely not more than that though... It was a pain in the ass to clearance though. I think I pulled the upper pan more times clearancing for the mains, than I ever will in a life time.

It is VERY close. 1/8th is a fair estimate.

s14unimog · 07-26-2011, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by S14DB

Shelf stock is a 8740 chromemoly steel and have a 190,000 psi tensile-strength rating. The ARP2000 have between 200,000 and 220,000 psi tensile-strength rating. Not a huge gain

The benefit of the ARP2000 is that it's more ductile. Which makes it ideal for head studs and rod bolts. Less likely to have the head lift or a rod cap break loose. Mains are more set and forget. They don't have the stretch loads that the others do.

Good info, but I was referring to your comment about checking crank bore clearances with the aftermarket hardware.

Quote:

Originally Posted by S14DB

I'm not a big fan of main studs. Have to check the main bore because the clamping load is different.

jr_ss · 07-26-2011, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by s14unimog

Good info, but I was referring to your comment about checking crank bore clearances with the aftermarket hardware.

Ideally, you'd want to line hone your mains with the ARP's trq'd down. Since they provide a greater clamping load, they augment the OEM dimensions. It's not necessarily needed, but not a bad thing to have checked out. I didn't, but probably should have. Next motor I suppose...

s14unimog · 07-26-2011, 07:18 PM

No I understand what he means but I just question there being a difference. If the cap is bottomed out, it's bottom out; no? My motor will be checked and assembled with them but I just thought in general if the cap is down its down.

jr_ss · 07-26-2011, 07:32 PM

Well, generally speaking, studs have a higher clamping load than bolts. This can cause some distortion in the caps. I'm not saying by any means that it is or will happen, but there is a greater chance using studs rather than OE bolts.

smelly240 · 07-26-2011, 07:36 PM

this has been documented - i can see how it can be overlooked tho - you dont think to look for "install instructions" for main studs... I have a special tool i made out of a valve and it works awesome for clearance of the oil pan.

***S14DB*** · 07-26-2011, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jr_ss

Well, generally speaking, studs have a higher clamping load than bolts. This can cause some distortion in the caps. I'm not saying by any means that it is or will happen, but there is a greater chance using studs rather than OE bolts.

It's more that the clamping load is at a different angle with a stud and nut compared to a bolt head. It's even more noticeable with rods when switching from a bolt to stud. Why a lot of rods use a bigger bolt rather then studding them.

All caps deform when you tighten them. Why you have to check the bores tq'd to spec rather then just in place.

The difference in deformation between bolts and studs isn't always great enough to oval the caps out of spec. But, it is something you still want checked with a bore gauge to make sure they are round.

s14unimog · 08-19-2011, 08:11 AM

just to add a bit more to this thread. I spoke with my machinist this morning and he told me that he had to counter bore the girdle 0.150" and remove approximately the same amount from the stud... This is quite an interference. I also spoke with a representative at ARP, Sam Benson, and he said that the only bolts they stock that are a 1/4" shorter are actually made from a different material. He did not feel comfortable supplying those for that reason, but said if I insisted he would. He recommends parting them off in a lathe, with coolant, as opposed to a friction cut as to have less heat put into the studs. This is surely valuable information for those who intend to deal with this in the future.

lewisfk · 08-19-2011, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sileighty_85

Did you modify the pan to clear the studs?

If not you have to.

Is it not written in the instructions?

i have arp main studs and i havent installed my pans yet! how do u modify the pan? Is it simple thing i can do or am i better of taking it to a machine shop! My bottom end was lined bored with arp mains!

boost addict · 08-19-2011, 09:02 PM

i wouldnt take any off the pan cause i dont think theres enough material, take it off the studs

s14unimog · 08-20-2011, 05:38 PM

^you couldn't, as I stated there is approximately 0.300" of an inch clearance needed. You would need to fabricate reliefs, and weld them on, if you intended to go that route.

kouki_drifter · 01-19-2012, 11:14 PM

i think my motor is suffering from this problem its a brand new rebuild, the driver side rear of the "oil pan" has a small gap i put 2qts of oil in it to check for leaks before i install it good thing i did, i have arps installed i didnt think to check clearance. im going to pull the pan tomorrow and asses the situation i dont think the pan cracked i hope not any way i will post pics i got a dremel tool so i will trim the rear studs a bit and see how it goes good thing i used the search button and found this tread!

kouki_drifter · 01-20-2012, 12:14 PM

fuck! mine is cracked to! does anyone have an extra one or do you think JB weld would work?

Kingtal0n · 01-20-2012, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kouki_drifter

fuck! mine is cracked to! does anyone have an extra one or do you think JB weld would work?

Do not use JB weld, lol

s14unimog · 01-20-2012, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kouki_drifter

fuck! mine is cracked to! does anyone have an extra one or do you think JB weld would work?

The only reason JB Weld is still in business is b/c everyone tries it at least once. DON'T do it. It will surely leak. Find a shop in your area and weld it up. If not, shoot me a PM and I have an extra I could sell ya.

kouki_drifter · 01-20-2012, 10:39 PM

^^^ cool man thanks! I had it welded earlier lets see how it holds up I might still be interested in the one you got, I'm gonna put a couple quarts of oil in it and see how it goes pm me a price for yours just in case. Also I might need a I guess you could call it a "main seal retainer" the one on the rear of the block, because I guess the studs hitting the pan put pressure on the little bolts and when I tried to take um off they just broke right off and I noticed that there was a little oil seeping out of the bottom of the seal so im thinking it might of warped it and caused a gap at the bottom between the seal and the crank fucken beautiful! Lol so if anyone has one laying around let me know

kouki_drifter · 01-20-2012, 10:42 PM

O and I did trim the studs down 3 of them the rear 2 and the one right in front of the rear one on the exhaust side so good to go

kouki_drifter · 01-24-2012, 12:27 PM

it held up good motors in the car running great!

07-26-2011, 07:18 PM	#35
s14unimog Nissanaholic! Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: In a place, near a river, over a lake Age: 34 Posts: 2,415 Trader Rating: (22) Rides Gallery: s14unimog Feedback Score: 22 reviews	No I understand what he means but I just question there being a difference. If the cap is bottomed out, it's bottom out; no? My motor will be checked and assembled with them but I just thought in general if the cap is down its down. __________________ Fuking ginger bread man stole my wallet... SHIFT*lock_slide to side d3m3rs0n: if i have a baby im naming it Brandons Fault Emerson

07-26-2011, 07:32 PM	#36
jr_ss Post Whore! Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Pa Posts: 6,056 Trader Rating: (34) Feedback Score: 34 reviews	Well, generally speaking, studs have a higher clamping load than bolts. This can cause some distortion in the caps. I'm not saying by any means that it is or will happen, but there is a greater chance using studs rather than OE bolts. __________________ My SR20VET

07-26-2011, 07:36 PM	#37
smelly240 Nissanaholic! Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Philaburbia Age: 43 Posts: 2,137 Trader Rating: (4) Feedback Score: 4 reviews	this has been documented - i can see how it can be overlooked tho - you dont think to look for "install instructions" for main studs... I have a special tool i made out of a valve and it works awesome for clearance of the oil pan. __________________ HREs on a S13 - check, 6262 - check, Girlfriend.... - nope

08-19-2011, 08:11 AM	#39
s14unimog Nissanaholic! Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: In a place, near a river, over a lake Age: 34 Posts: 2,415 Trader Rating: (22) Rides Gallery: s14unimog Feedback Score: 22 reviews	just to add a bit more to this thread. I spoke with my machinist this morning and he told me that he had to counter bore the girdle 0.150" and remove approximately the same amount from the stud... This is quite an interference. I also spoke with a representative at ARP, Sam Benson, and he said that the only bolts they stock that are a 1/4" shorter are actually made from a different material. He did not feel comfortable supplying those for that reason, but said if I insisted he would. He recommends parting them off in a lathe, with coolant, as opposed to a friction cut as to have less heat put into the studs. This is surely valuable information for those who intend to deal with this in the future. __________________ Fuking ginger bread man stole my wallet... SHIFT*lock_slide to side d3m3rs0n: if i have a baby im naming it Brandons Fault Emerson

08-20-2011, 05:38 PM	#42
s14unimog Nissanaholic! Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: In a place, near a river, over a lake Age: 34 Posts: 2,415 Trader Rating: (22) Rides Gallery: s14unimog Feedback Score: 22 reviews	^you couldn't, as I stated there is approximately 0.300" of an inch clearance needed. You would need to fabricate reliefs, and weld them on, if you intended to go that route. __________________ Fuking ginger bread man stole my wallet... SHIFT*lock_slide to side d3m3rs0n: if i have a baby im naming it Brandons Fault Emerson

08-19-2011, 09:02 PM	#41
boost addict Zilvia Addict Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Northwest Indiana Age: 28 Posts: 859 Trader Rating: (12) Feedback Score: 12 reviews	i wouldnt take any off the pan cause i dont think theres enough material, take it off the studs

01-19-2012, 11:14 PM	#43
kouki_drifter Zilvia Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: new mexico Age: 35 Posts: 248 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	i think my motor is suffering from this problem its a brand new rebuild, the driver side rear of the "oil pan" has a small gap i put 2qts of oil in it to check for leaks before i install it good thing i did, i have arps installed i didnt think to check clearance. im going to pull the pan tomorrow and asses the situation i dont think the pan cracked i hope not any way i will post pics i got a dremel tool so i will trim the rear studs a bit and see how it goes good thing i used the search button and found this tread!

01-20-2012, 12:14 PM	#44
kouki_drifter Zilvia Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: new mexico Age: 35 Posts: 248 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	fuck! mine is cracked to! does anyone have an extra one or do you think JB weld would work?

01-20-2012, 10:39 PM	#47
kouki_drifter Zilvia Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: new mexico Age: 35 Posts: 248 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	^^^ cool man thanks! I had it welded earlier lets see how it holds up I might still be interested in the one you got, I'm gonna put a couple quarts of oil in it and see how it goes pm me a price for yours just in case. Also I might need a I guess you could call it a "main seal retainer" the one on the rear of the block, because I guess the studs hitting the pan put pressure on the little bolts and when I tried to take um off they just broke right off and I noticed that there was a little oil seeping out of the bottom of the seal so im thinking it might of warped it and caused a gap at the bottom between the seal and the crank fucken beautiful! Lol so if anyone has one laying around let me know Last edited by kouki_drifter; 01-20-2012 at 11:59 PM..

01-20-2012, 10:42 PM	#48
kouki_drifter Zilvia Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: new mexico Age: 35 Posts: 248 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	O and I did trim the studs down 3 of them the rear 2 and the one right in front of the rear one on the exhaust side so good to go

01-24-2012, 12:27 PM	#49
kouki_drifter Zilvia Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: new mexico Age: 35 Posts: 248 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	it held up good motors in the car running great!

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode