sr arp main studs cracked oil pan, wtf? pics - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

boost addict · 07-25-2011, 02:08 AM

so i realized why my upper pan wasnt sitting right, and thats cause it was hitting the main studs. what the fuck? this is dumb and now im kinda stumped. anyone got an upper pan laying around? im giving arp a call tomorrow

Sileighty_85 · 07-25-2011, 08:19 AM

Did you modify the pan to clear the studs?

If not you have to.

Is it not written in the instructions?

[email protected] · 07-25-2011, 10:42 AM

hahah fuck! Mine was hitting so just grinded some material off of the oil pan. You should of noticed when you were bolting on the oil pan. I know there had to be a gap and it was harder and harder to tighten

boost addict · 07-25-2011, 11:22 AM

i know i wasnt paying attention, i noticed one side wasnt sitting flush with the block but i thought it was maybe the little dowel pin not fitting right. so wacked it with a mallet to seat it and that did it haha

sr20sean · 07-25-2011, 11:25 AM

yea youre supposed to machine them

Bbsalexaz · 07-25-2011, 11:28 AM

DERP DERP DERP.

That sucks in all seriousness.

BiG MiKE86 · 07-25-2011, 11:34 AM

Ive got an upper pan - LMK willing to ship

Pan from S13 SR/Redtop

boost addict · 07-25-2011, 11:38 AM

hahaha i was waiting for that, cant blame ya though

jr_ss · 07-25-2011, 12:06 PM

Yep, clearancing is a must on the RWD SRs... FWD SRs don't have too.

s14unimog · 07-25-2011, 01:02 PM

^Wow.... so I just made a frantic call to my machine shop because of this thread; although you would think they'd catch this. I literately had them hold up on progress so my studs would come in; and I dropped them off last week. Luckily they hadn't gotten to that far this week.

Does ARP warn you about this? What's the preferred method; shorten the back 4 studs? Anyone know how much interference there is?

boost addict · 07-25-2011, 01:29 PM

no there were no instructions about this, nothing said to modify the pan. arp even told me they have nothing about it in the kit. im glad i was able to help you instead of it happening to you too. they say to hand tighten the studs in but im thinking if you turn them two more or so times youll be able to avoid this. ill try to represent which studs they are
this is with the motor upside down, the studs are on the "exhaust" side if you think of it that way
_____. . . .
back . . . . front of motor
____^^
those are the 2 that hit and the closet to the front is the one that cracked it

s14unimog · 07-25-2011, 02:29 PM

Right on, I'll advise the shop; props on the diagram, it's clear enough for me. Luckily I've got a second one but I'd like to keep that for the other motor. Can't you just weld yours back up?

codyace · 07-25-2011, 04:16 PM

You'll only need to grind the last too.

Shame it's not marked in the ARP instructions, nor is it really full on common knowledge (I mean who ever really thinks to search for 'pan clearence'.

There have been some guys who have lucked out, others have had the exact thing above happen. If you're not looking to trim the studs, you can always cut a hole in the pan there, and have a welder modify the pan to clear it too.

codyace · 07-25-2011, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jr_ss

Yep, clearancing is a must on the RWD SRs... FWD SRs don't have too.

Some FWD do, some don't. I think it really depends on DE vs DET, as I've had some friends with DE have no issue, and some with DET that have also had to grind them.

jr_ss · 07-25-2011, 04:36 PM

Uni- go to nico and do a search for threads started under my name. I have a thread all about this and the modifications I did to make them work without cutting/grinding my studs.

jr_ss · 07-25-2011, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by codyace

Some FWD do, some don't. I think it really depends on DE vs DET, as I've had some friends with DE have no issue, and some with DET that have also had to grind them.

Well, I was referring to the FWD DE blocks...

boost addict · 07-25-2011, 04:51 PM

And uni take a look at my diagram again, I think it was a little messed up. It's the back two on that side. Like I said arp is sending me a few shorter studs so I'll see how that goes an I'll let you know. Maybe you can just do the same if it works out. Seems like it'll be the cleanest solution

mewantkouki · 07-25-2011, 04:59 PM

Buy mazworx studs that are stronger and already modified to fit and don't worry about silly shit like this.

codyace · 07-25-2011, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mewantkouki

Buy mazworx studs that are stronger and already modified to fit and don't worry about silly shit like this.

Albiet the fitting part can't be denied; I would like to see if there is any proof in superior performance from the Mazworx studs. That is, will the ARP blow up at random and the Mazworx prevent that from happening?

Mazworx makes nice stuff, but to say their main studs are THAT much better is a big claim.

s14unimog · 07-25-2011, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by codyace

You'll only need to grind the last too.Shame it's not marked in the ARP instructions, nor is it really full on common knowledge (I mean who ever really thinks to search for 'pan clearence'. There have been some guys who have lucked out, others have had the exact thing above happen. If you're not looking to trim the studs, you can always cut a hole in the pan there, and have a welder modify the pan to clear it too.

Wow... that looks like a few 100 thousandths. You recall how much was needed? That's sure to play a hand with those length tolerances.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jr_ss

Uni- go to nico and do a search for threads started under my name. I have a thread all about this and the modifications I did to make them work without cutting/grinding my studs.

Thanks, I'll give it a look. The guys up there are really good so I'm sure they'll sort it well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by boost addict

And uni take a look at my diagram again, I think it was a little messed up. It's the back two on that side. Like I said arp is sending me a few shorter studs so I'll see how that goes an I'll let you know. Maybe you can just do the same if it works out. Seems like it'll be the cleanest solution

That would be nice to get some shorter studs now... I'd be interested in keeping that hexagonal socket. Let me know how that works out. I wonder if I can get a pair myself. Shit, they can have the other two.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mewantkouki

Buy mazworx studs that are stronger

yeah, I don't know about that now... bold statement.

***S14DB*** · 07-25-2011, 08:35 PM

Mazworx kit is made from ARP2000 not the 8740 chrome moly that the regular ARP kit is made from.

mewantkouki · 07-25-2011, 08:57 PM

^ ding ding ding

http://www.mazworx.com/product/engin...-main-stud-kit

codyace · 07-25-2011, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by S14DB

Mazworx kit is made from ARP2000 not the 8740 chrome moly that the regular ARP kit is made from.

I knew what ARP still made them, however I was looking for quantitive data on how they were worth the price, especially considering DET main bolts are plenty strong.

codyace · 07-25-2011, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mewantkouki

^ ding ding ding

Mazworx SR Main Stud Kit - Engine - Mazworx

Either way you haven't proven what I knew. Show me where traditional ARP/DE/DET/GTiR main studs have failed.

EDIT: Not trying to be a technical asshole, but there are countless/many/hundreds of cars running big power on stock stuff without any signs of failure. If anything the SR mains are pretty stout, unlike the rod bearings.

mewantkouki · 07-26-2011, 09:47 AM

I never said arp or stock stuff was prone to failure. I think you misinterpreted my original statement. I have stock main studs on my SR and have even re-used stock head and main studs on other engines. However pre-cut studs that are made from a stronger material is an easy solution the the cracked oil pan problem. Yes I realize you can modify arp fasteners to fit and correct the problem but not everyone wants to cut a main stud when there is a kit that is modified and ready for installation readily available. The fact that they are made from arp2000 material is a bonus. I'm sure you can see that. If you really wanted to pursue the difference in tensile strength between the two fasteners I'm sure mazworx could provide you with a ton of information and real world application that suggest that arp2000 material is stronger than the 8704 Chrome moly used in the other fasteners. There must be a reason for them requesting that arp produce the bolts and I'm fairly certain they use them in their crate motors and drag car. Let's not argue semantics.

***S14DB*** · 07-26-2011, 10:41 AM

I have never stretched main bolts. The only ARP head studs I have stretched were on a Turbo Diesel where the cyl pressures are a lot higher. This was the only situation where the ARP2000's were needed. Like you said the ARP2000 is a bonus. Not necessary but when you want the best... The only thing I would use ARP2000 on our motors is the rod bolts.

I'm not a big fan of main studs. Have to check the main bore because the clamping load is different. The Nissan OEM units are a high grade steel(4130 IIRC) and up to the job. Sure some of the old domestic stuff used bolts that weren't as high grade as today. But, just because they need them doesn't make it a necessary upgrade on modern engines.

sean350z · 07-26-2011, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by codyace

Not trying to be a technical asshole, but there are countless/many/hundreds of cars running big power on stock stuff without any signs of failure. If anything the SR mains are pretty stout, unlike the rod bearings.

Stock mains or die. Well said

codyace · 07-26-2011, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mewantkouki

There must be a reason for them requesting that arp produce the bolts and I'm fairly certain they use them in their crate motors and drag car. Let's not argue semantics.

I wasn't looking to argue anything, other than the Mazworx stuff is over engineered and isn't going to work any better/worse than OE DET stuff. Much as said above, it's over engineering something that is already overengineered.

Nothing against Mazworx, they make nice stuff, but don't fall into the consumer trap of 'because XXX does it, that means it's the only way'

Quote:

Originally Posted by S14DB

But, just because they need them doesn't make it a necessary upgrade on modern engines.

Which was exacty the point I was trying to make. Upgrading for the sake of ugprading is a waste.

s14unimog · 07-26-2011, 01:03 PM

so back on topic, how much interference is it? Shit I'm only swapping to these b/c its a "while I'm in here, I can afford it, it can't hurt" upgrade; lol.

S14DB, the difference in clamping forces is that different between the two?

***S14DB*** · 07-26-2011, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by s14unimog

so back on topic, how much interference is it? Shit I'm only swapping to these b/c its a "while I'm in here, I can afford it, it can't hurt" upgrade; lol.

S14DB, the difference in clamping forces is that different between the two?

Shelf stock is a 8740 chromemoly steel and have a 190,000 psi tensile-strength rating. The ARP2000 have between 200,000 and 220,000 psi tensile-strength rating. Not a huge gain

The benefit of the ARP2000 is that it's more ductile. Which makes it ideal for head studs and rod bolts. Less likely to have the head lift or a rod cap break loose. Mains are more set and forget. They don't have the stretch loads that the others do.

07-25-2011, 02:08 AM	#1
boost addict Zilvia Addict Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Northwest Indiana Age: 28 Posts: 859 Trader Rating: (12) Feedback Score: 12 reviews	sr arp main studs cracked oil pan, wtf? pics so i realized why my upper pan wasnt sitting right, and thats cause it was hitting the main studs. what the fuck? this is dumb and now im kinda stumped. anyone got an upper pan laying around? im giving arp a call tomorrow

07-25-2011, 08:19 AM	#2
Sileighty_85 Post Whore! Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Misawa, Japan Posts: 6,815 Trader Rating: (8) Feedback Score: 8 reviews	Did you modify the pan to clear the studs? If not you have to. Is it not written in the instructions? __________________ 後輪駆動車１番 1989 Built SR GT2871R -363whp 1998 S14 W/RB25- 250ish (For Now) 1986 SR86 - 200ish 1990 R32 GTR - 320hp Don't Buy Engines from JDM-Online http://zilvia.net/f/businesses/207457-jdm-online.html Don't Buy XS-Power or SSAC Shit

07-25-2011, 11:28 AM	#6
Bbsalexaz Zilvia Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Phx AZ Posts: 180 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	DERP DERP DERP. That sucks in all seriousness. __________________ 0 horsepowers.· \ ' ' ·.1000 horsepowers

07-25-2011, 11:34 AM	#7
BiG MiKE86 Nissanaholic! Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Ft. Lauderdale Age: 35 Posts: 1,776 Trader Rating: (12) Feedback Score: 12 reviews	Ive got an upper pan - LMK willing to ship Pan from S13 SR/Redtop __________________

07-25-2011, 12:06 PM	#9
jr_ss Post Whore! Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Pa Posts: 6,056 Trader Rating: (34) Feedback Score: 34 reviews	Yep, clearancing is a must on the RWD SRs... FWD SRs don't have too. __________________ My SR20VET

07-25-2011, 10:42 AM	#3
[email protected] Nissanaholic! Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Zacatecas, Mx; Paramount, Ca Age: 31 Posts: 1,626 Trader Rating: (32) Feedback Score: 32 reviews	hahah fuck! Mine was hitting so just grinded some material off of the oil pan. You should of noticed when you were bolting on the oil pan. I know there had to be a gap and it was harder and harder to tighten

07-25-2011, 11:22 AM	#4
boost addict Zilvia Addict Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Northwest Indiana Age: 28 Posts: 859 Trader Rating: (12) Feedback Score: 12 reviews	i know i wasnt paying attention, i noticed one side wasnt sitting flush with the block but i thought it was maybe the little dowel pin not fitting right. so wacked it with a mallet to seat it and that did it haha

07-25-2011, 11:38 AM	#8
boost addict Zilvia Addict Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Northwest Indiana Age: 28 Posts: 859 Trader Rating: (12) Feedback Score: 12 reviews	hahaha i was waiting for that, cant blame ya though

07-25-2011, 01:02 PM	#10
s14unimog Nissanaholic! Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: In a place, near a river, over a lake Age: 34 Posts: 2,415 Trader Rating: (22) Rides Gallery: s14unimog Feedback Score: 22 reviews	^Wow.... so I just made a frantic call to my machine shop because of this thread; although you would think they'd catch this. I literately had them hold up on progress so my studs would come in; and I dropped them off last week. Luckily they hadn't gotten to that far this week. Does ARP warn you about this? What's the preferred method; shorten the back 4 studs? Anyone know how much interference there is? __________________ Fuking ginger bread man stole my wallet... SHIFT*lock_slide to side d3m3rs0n: if i have a baby im naming it Brandons Fault Emerson

07-25-2011, 01:29 PM	#11
boost addict Zilvia Addict Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Northwest Indiana Age: 28 Posts: 859 Trader Rating: (12) Feedback Score: 12 reviews	no there were no instructions about this, nothing said to modify the pan. arp even told me they have nothing about it in the kit. im glad i was able to help you instead of it happening to you too. they say to hand tighten the studs in but im thinking if you turn them two more or so times youll be able to avoid this. ill try to represent which studs they are this is with the motor upside down, the studs are on the "exhaust" side if you think of it that way _____. . . . back . . . . front of motor ____^^ those are the 2 that hit and the closet to the front is the one that cracked it Last edited by boost addict; 07-25-2011 at 04:48 PM..

07-25-2011, 02:29 PM	#12
s14unimog Nissanaholic! Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: In a place, near a river, over a lake Age: 34 Posts: 2,415 Trader Rating: (22) Rides Gallery: s14unimog Feedback Score: 22 reviews	Right on, I'll advise the shop; props on the diagram, it's clear enough for me. Luckily I've got a second one but I'd like to keep that for the other motor. Can't you just weld yours back up? __________________ Fuking ginger bread man stole my wallet... SHIFT*lock_slide to side d3m3rs0n: if i have a baby im naming it Brandons Fault Emerson

07-25-2011, 04:16 PM	#13
codyace Post Whore! Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Poconos, PA Age: 36 Posts: 8,030 Trader Rating: (58) Feedback Score: 58 reviews	You'll only need to grind the last too. Shame it's not marked in the ARP instructions, nor is it really full on common knowledge (I mean who ever really thinks to search for 'pan clearence'. There have been some guys who have lucked out, others have had the exact thing above happen. If you're not looking to trim the studs, you can always cut a hole in the pan there, and have a welder modify the pan to clear it too. __________________ *Want Air Conditioning in your SR20 Swapped car? Check out www.sr20acbrackets.com for more information! Quest Alternator Conversions for SR20!* Check my Group Buy! Tired of lousy internal gates? Go external wastegate with one of my manifolds, Check out my group buy

07-25-2011, 04:36 PM	#15
jr_ss Post Whore! Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Pa Posts: 6,056 Trader Rating: (34) Feedback Score: 34 reviews	Uni- go to nico and do a search for threads started under my name. I have a thread all about this and the modifications I did to make them work without cutting/grinding my studs. __________________ My SR20VET

07-25-2011, 04:51 PM	#17
boost addict Zilvia Addict Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Northwest Indiana Age: 28 Posts: 859 Trader Rating: (12) Feedback Score: 12 reviews	And uni take a look at my diagram again, I think it was a little messed up. It's the back two on that side. Like I said arp is sending me a few shorter studs so I'll see how that goes an I'll let you know. Maybe you can just do the same if it works out. Seems like it'll be the cleanest solution

07-25-2011, 04:59 PM	#18
mewantkouki Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Orlando, Fl Age: 35 Posts: 1,221 Trader Rating: (36) Feedback Score: 36 reviews	Buy mazworx studs that are stronger and already modified to fit and don't worry about silly shit like this.

07-25-2011, 08:35 PM	#21
*S14DB* AFC #1 Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: 昨晩あなたのお母さんの家 Posts: 20,181 Trader Rating: (3) Feedback Score: 3 reviews	Mazworx kit is made from ARP2000 not the 8740 chrome moly that the regular ARP kit is made from. __________________ Comments should be taken as Opinions not as Statements of Fact

07-25-2011, 08:57 PM	#22
mewantkouki Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Orlando, Fl Age: 35 Posts: 1,221 Trader Rating: (36) Feedback Score: 36 reviews	^ ding ding ding http://www.mazworx.com/product/engin...-main-stud-kit

07-26-2011, 09:47 AM	#25
mewantkouki Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Orlando, Fl Age: 35 Posts: 1,221 Trader Rating: (36) Feedback Score: 36 reviews	I never said arp or stock stuff was prone to failure. I think you misinterpreted my original statement. I have stock main studs on my SR and have even re-used stock head and main studs on other engines. However pre-cut studs that are made from a stronger material is an easy solution the the cracked oil pan problem. Yes I realize you can modify arp fasteners to fit and correct the problem but not everyone wants to cut a main stud when there is a kit that is modified and ready for installation readily available. The fact that they are made from arp2000 material is a bonus. I'm sure you can see that. If you really wanted to pursue the difference in tensile strength between the two fasteners I'm sure mazworx could provide you with a ton of information and real world application that suggest that arp2000 material is stronger than the 8704 Chrome moly used in the other fasteners. There must be a reason for them requesting that arp produce the bolts and I'm fairly certain they use them in their crate motors and drag car. Let's not argue semantics.

07-26-2011, 10:41 AM	#26
*S14DB* AFC #1 Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: 昨晩あなたのお母さんの家 Posts: 20,181 Trader Rating: (3) Feedback Score: 3 reviews	I have never stretched main bolts. The only ARP head studs I have stretched were on a Turbo Diesel where the cyl pressures are a lot higher. This was the only situation where the ARP2000's were needed. Like you said the ARP2000 is a bonus. Not necessary but when you want the best... The only thing I would use ARP2000 on our motors is the rod bolts. I'm not a big fan of main studs. Have to check the main bore because the clamping load is different. The Nissan OEM units are a high grade steel(4130 IIRC) and up to the job. Sure some of the old domestic stuff used bolts that weren't as high grade as today. But, just because they need them doesn't make it a necessary upgrade on modern engines. __________________ Comments should be taken as Opinions not as Statements of Fact

07-26-2011, 01:03 PM	#29
s14unimog Nissanaholic! Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: In a place, near a river, over a lake Age: 34 Posts: 2,415 Trader Rating: (22) Rides Gallery: s14unimog Feedback Score: 22 reviews	so back on topic, how much interference is it? Shit I'm only swapping to these b/c its a "while I'm in here, I can afford it, it can't hurt" upgrade; lol. S14DB, the difference in clamping forces is that different between the two? __________________ Fuking ginger bread man stole my wallet... SHIFT*lock_slide to side d3m3rs0n: if i have a baby im naming it Brandons Fault Emerson

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