deuce243

Alright, I bought an apexi safc II because I was told that I would need one sense I had a n62 maf... I was wondering if I was going to need a wide band as well for tuning. Sorry for being a noob, but im new to this. can anyone help me if i need both, safc and wide band or just one of them. Lmk know guys, thanks. If this is posted in wrong section, please post in right section mods, thanks

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deuce243

n62 maf is in a s14 sr20det black top with t28 turbo, and greddy suction kit

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g6civcx

FYI, a lot of people, including myself, dislike the SAFC. It's just a bandage. You need a full standalone for tunability. I've seen so many bad SAFC setups that it's scary.

You don't really need it, but being able to see your AFR really helps with fine tuning your maps.


My recommendation is to go with a full standalone and get it dyno tuned by a shop that knows what they're doing. That way you just leave it and don't need AFR to tune on your own.

It's a little more expensive than SAFC but getting done right costs money.

Sleepy240

SAFC's are NOT terrible they just lack alot of important functions and are pretty limited as to what they can actually do. I used an SAFC with my Enthalpy Tune just to lean out a couple things and it made huge differences for me. Standalone is without a doubt the best way to go but not everybody has the money to drop on it right away. With any important modifications a wideband IS very important IMO. Its your best investment to really help understand whats going on. I would suggest you spend the money on a good wideband setup not just a cheapo ebay gauge.

TheRealNighthog

Here is another option that I am using.
http://www.sr20forum.com/calumsult/
What I like about these is that they have almost all the features of a full stand alone without the cost/ hassle. Has off the shelf tunes, excellent customer support and also constant RnD for new features. As of late the new RT board can do map tracing, 1 click timing, launch control, VVL cam switching (which I use) nitrous control, and is fully programmable via TunerPro or whatever you would like to use. Obviously there are a lot more features than what I listed but it gives you an idea of its potential.

UNISA JECS

SAFC sucks! I've used them for years also BTW, its only good for swapping MAF's and getting ur car to idle right with larger injectors to an extent, other than that it fucks shit up that you cant see.

NIStune - Nissan Realtime ECU tuning

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Sleepy240

So you bash the SAFC just to promote another product? I'd like you to provide some examples as to why they "suck"? They are a very viable option for people on a budget

UNISA JECS

BUDGET

*Nistune type 3 board
*Nistune Consult to Serial to USB
*Nistune Individual License
*Onsite fitting of Board
***Grand Total = $375 (NEW) USD

If you just wanna buy the board its like $144 bucks, take it to a tunner with a dyno and tune it that way, it'll run circle around a SAFC setup


*SAFCII
***$320 (NEW) USD now ofcourse you can by a used SAFC for cheaper
*SAFC NEO
***$350-450 (NEW)

But for about $55 more you get so much more

Tell me whats the better buy if your on a budget...

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Sleepy240

Your forgetting the cost you have to spend to have somebody "tune" and "dyno" your car, your also assuming everybody has a laptop lying around to use. The SAFC is simple to install and you can tune on the street with very EASILY. I never said it was the BEST option but its a very good option. I found the SAFC is incredibly user friendly and simple. I upgraded to a full standalone but for the cost it was some of the best money I spent.

I do not doubt the results from NIStune as I have seen them. Your also forgetting that this is STILL a BETA software. Your also dealing with a company located outside of the USA/CA, so as far as customer service you can expect it to be done by email etc. They also do this as a SECONDARY form of income. They do NIStune in their spare time, so its not priority #1. Again I'm not bashing NIStune but it IMO is definitely not the best option.

UNISA JECS

Well for the type of individual that wont be doing there own tunning like many SAFC users, I was one of them, dont dare try and say that using a SAFC is tunning without a dyno, wideband and a map sensor to log boost and vacuum because if you can afford to do that with yoru SAFC then you can easily afford Nistune with teh extras.

That type of indivudual can by a board and have it installed for $170 USD and then go pay for a dyno session (what a dyno tune cost?). You dont need the others tools that DIY's need so you save on cost and get a 1,000 better tune for roughly the same cost.

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g6civcx

Just in my personal opinion, people in general have no idea how to set up a SAFC. I've even seen one car where the power to the SAFC was tapped from the radio = SAFC resets every time you hit ST with the key.

If you're good with the SAFC, more power to you. I guarantee though you're nowhere as good as a standalone with a proper dyno tune.

If you don't have money, it's better that you don't mod because you stand to lose more with a bad tune than you can gain with a SAFC.

Sleepy240

Its not about SAFC being as good a standalone because obviously its not its limited, but the SAFC is a perfectly viable option. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to make some simple adjustments gain power and reliability. All I am saying is that for the cost a SAFC is a sound investment. Sure there are always going to be issues but that goes with any form of tuning even if you use a $1500 standalone.

g6civcx

That where I disagree with you. Experimenting usually ends up creating problems if you don't know what you're doing.

I'm going to disagree with you again here.

Both piggybacks and standalones will have problems with the tuning. It depends how you tune it.

You're trading tunability for price.

It's just my opinion. Your opinion is different, but on the Internet both our opinions weigh the same: zero.

I'm not saying you're stupid. I'm just saying I disagree with your statements.

From the looks of it, I'm not the only one.

Sleepy240

I'm not saying we have to agree, but not ALL setups require a full standalone system. Most people bash things like the SAFC without ever using one. I too was a skeptic, as a matter of fact I don't think its the best option but it does WORK. I can tell you I am no genius and managed to use it just fine. I was not making drastic changes like you were implying (at least by my judgment) just simple things like I noted (slightly leaning / richening (probably a sp), injector duty etc). And IMO spending 300$ to get some more power and reliability over a setup of full standalone for (even low end) 700-800$ which might not even be necessary, is sound.

UNISA JECS

Sleep240 if you ever learn what the "guy" that tunes his own car knows, you will look back on teh SAFC and just laugh at yourself, I sure did. I used to stand up for the SAFC many of times I bet I probably have more experince with teh SAFC than anyone on this forum that how confident I am with it, I have damn near used and "tuned" with them for the past 10 years, mainly with the FWD SR20DET crowd and I never blew up an engine using one either because im not stupid neither, other than teh fact I bragged and raved about it...lol.

But that argument about cost is getting real old when its a fact you can own a tunnable ECU such as Nistune or a Calumsult which is basically a standalone in itself for the same price as a SAFC or even less.

p.s. Its ok to use to get you going, it'll make your car idle better with bigger injectors on a NA ECU and you can swap MAF's to but that in itself is a whole other story, I wont discuss it because its useless because I dont care to take the time to teach, if anyones really wants to learn they'll self educate themself and then buy a tunnable ECU, end of story.

I guess im talking from a standpoint of being able to see alot of whats going on inside the ECU, something a SAFC cant do. Just know that a SAFC is bad for your timing maps, specially when you start changing MAF's and tweking settings beyoung idle.

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Sleepy240

I do not for one minute doubt your experience because I too used the SAFC and have since moved on. My point is if this "guy" can't tune a SAFC there is NO WAY he could tune a ECU similar to NIStune. And price is a huge deal with the majority of 240sx owners, hence all the cheap parts people buy. But the SAFC is a quality part and can produce quality results.

My only other comment is look at this guys mods, do you honestly believe he needs a tunable ECU?? No, a SAFC will work just fine for his setup, and wideband is a necessity with ANY tuning device

deuce243

Thank you guys for your help and knowledge.

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