something weird I've noticed about the stock S14 - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

gundamzeta · 06-22-2005, 04:04 AM

I've have been test driving used S14's for the last 2 weeks and there is something I just can't get past.

My Bone stock MR2 N/A T-Top weighs about 3000 lbs, and that's without all the junk I have in the trunk, but it still feels more agile and tossable than a Stock S14, which weighs signifacantly less.
I've also noticed that The S14 is comparatively more prone to understeer than the MR2, which is probably obvious because of the different drivetrain layouts. However, I didn't think it would be that much of a difference.

What's the deal?

*!Zar!* · 06-22-2005, 04:15 AM

You awnsered it yourself, it's the drivetran. Also, tires could be a big part of it.

lucky7 · 06-22-2005, 08:09 AM

you screwed yourself. every car you drive that isnt MR is going to feel this way.. FOREVER!!!

chuy · 06-22-2005, 08:12 AM

Stock (base)S14 dont have a rear sway-bar

kuramaya · 06-22-2005, 08:19 AM

As agile as the MR2 is, it will always handle better than an S14 (i presume you mean 240SX S14 Chassis) stock for stock...takes a bit of work on an S14 chassis to get it agile..it's a bit of a boat with stock suspension..sways and understeers terribly..

sepulchral · 06-22-2005, 09:46 AM

because its compact smart guy.................... you think

gundamzeta · 06-22-2005, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sepulchral

because its compact smart guy.................... you think

a compact that weighs 3000+ lbs.

the mr2 weighs a lot more than the 240sx S14, but it still feels lighter. the MR2 is smaller, but The density of the car makes a difference?

gundamzeta · 06-22-2005, 10:52 AM

Hmmm.. i always thought of the cars as near equal after modifications with the 240sx winning just a tad because of the FMIC capability. Think of it as two n^x curves that converge eventually with the 240sx intercepting the y-axis at lower spot than the MR2.

s14xman · 06-22-2005, 11:10 AM

well stick with your MR2, leave the s14 for someone who appreciates its driving characteristics. You know what they say: "Once you go MR you can't jump on the 240sx bandwagon"

axiomatik · 06-22-2005, 11:48 AM

It has a lot to do with the drivetrain layout. Having a mid-engine setup reduces the moment of inertia of the car, making it easier to turn. While the MR2 is a bit heavier, the weight is more concentrated towards the center of the car, and it can turn about its vertical axis more easily. Also, stock S14s have a pretty soft suspension setup, which further exacerbates the situation.

**Phlip** · 06-22-2005, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nbrindley

*snip* Also, stock S14s have a pretty soft suspension setup, which further exacerbates the situation.

come on dude, you know the only 4-syllable word that these kids understand is "motherfucker," let us help them along:

Exacerbates: ex·ac·er·bate ( P ) Pronunciation Key (g-zsr-bt)
tr.v. ex·ac·er·bat·ed, ex·ac·er·bat·ing, ex·ac·er·bates
To increase the severity, violence, or bitterness of; aggravate: a speech that exacerbated racial tensions; a heavy rainfall that exacerbated the flood problems.

gundamzeta · 06-22-2005, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by s14xman

well stick with your MR2, leave the s14 for someone who appreciates its driving characteristics. You know what they say: "Once you go MR you can't jump on the 240sx bandwagon"

well I had a Sr20det S13 before I bought an MR2..

i'm not jumping on the band wagon, more like rejoining the convoy.

the transition from S13 with mods to stock Mr2 was not as drastic as Stock mr2 to stock S14.

gundamzeta · 06-22-2005, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nbrindley

It has a lot to do with the drivetrain layout. Having a mid-engine setup reduces the moment of inertia of the car, making it easier to turn. While the MR2 is a bit heavier, the weight is more concentrated towards the center of the car, and it can turn about its vertical axis more easily. Also, stock S14s have a pretty soft suspension setup, which further exacerbates the situation.

hmm.. you realize that the Engine is right over the rear-wheels right? While the MR2 gets the MR designation, it always seemed more like a RR to me, especially after driving it for so long.

tew photy · 06-22-2005, 12:39 PM

MR = engine in front of rear axels
RR = engine behind rear axels

if you look in the back of a 911, you will never again think the mr2 is RR

gundamzeta · 06-22-2005, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tew photy

MR = engine in front of rear axels
RR = engine behind rear axels

if you look in the back of a 911, you will never again think the mr2 is RR

yeah, I know this already. It was an exageration used to emphasize the oversteering charaterstics of the MR2.
I've seen a 911. Thanks for schooling me my master.

gundamzeta · 06-22-2005, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PHLIP

come on dude, you know the only 4-syllable word that these kids understand is "motherfucker," let us help them along:

Exacerbates: ex·ac·er·bate ( P ) Pronunciation Key (g-zsr-bt)
tr.v. ex·ac·er·bat·ed, ex·ac·er·bat·ing, ex·ac·er·bates
To increase the severity, violence, or bitterness of; aggravate: a speech that exacerbated racial tensions; a heavy rainfall that exacerbated the flood problems.

people who point out "big" words usually aren't very well-read or educated.

Pank · 06-22-2005, 02:08 PM

so did you just post this thread to tell everyone how much better MR2's are than s14's? if so, leave.

m0rex · 06-22-2005, 02:41 PM

I was watching a Best of Motoring vol 6 and the champ s14 beat the amuse s2000 and technopro spirit mr-s. I just felt like saying this.

infinitexsound · 06-22-2005, 02:52 PM

morex u feel like saying anything to get ur post numbers up, good thinkin....

u might wanna watch ur self with your responses to the MODs...

anyways... stock suspension on a s14 isnt that great either... switching up is what really brings out the layout on the s14

Yoshi · 06-22-2005, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gundamzeta

people who point out "big" words usually aren't very well-read or educated.

Maybe i'm totally off base, but i'm almost positive I reasd in a previous post that Phlip is a writer no?

infinitexsound · 06-22-2005, 03:18 PM

yoshi just sit back and enjoy the show...

popcorn?

justinhustle · 06-22-2005, 03:24 PM

something weird ive noticed about s14s and s13s is the influx of goddamn idiots who attempt or achieve ownership of one.

gundamzeta · 06-22-2005, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by [email protected]

something weird ive noticed about s14s and s13s is the influx of goddamn idiots who attempt or achieve ownership of one.

what the heck...

I just posted some personal observations about a stock S14, and I get flamed.

Challenging my intelligence, my knowlegde of the english lexicon, and my knowledge of automobile specifications. oh, I'm also a goddman idiot, and trend happy sheep ricer boy..

i've been a nissan fan ever since I had a Z some 10 years ago, and I had a S13 3 years ago. I've never driven a stock S14, and now that I have, I just don't like it.

I'm not trying to flame. I just wanted some answers, so I would know how to tune the S14 to my liking if I ever bought one.

gundamzeta · 06-22-2005, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gundamzeta

Hmmm.. i always thought of the cars as near equal after modifications with the 240sx winning just a tad because of the FMIC capability. Think of it as two n^x curves that converge eventually with the 240sx intercepting the y-axis at lower spot than the MR2.

did anyone read this?!! dammit i'm not trying to flame.

Var · 06-22-2005, 03:59 PM

Did anyone else mention anything about wheelbase? i just skimmed through the thread. But i think having a shorter wheelbase makes the car rotate better.

allblackS14 · 06-22-2005, 05:08 PM

Your salvation lies with suspension. Coilovers or Springs/Struts, better sway bars and minty air freshners...*in Homer voice* Ouuuuuuu mint

gundamzeta · 06-22-2005, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by allblackS14

Your salvation lies with suspension. Coilovers or Springs/Struts, better sway bars and minty air freshners...*in Homer voice* Ouuuuuuu mint

yeah I figured as much.

but are there any weight reduction, and or chasis modifications that are necessary because Nissan NA messed with it in the name of marketing, or is the S14 a solid chasis that can just be awakened by aftermarket mods.

zenkiDori · 06-22-2005, 05:58 PM

it has to do with where the weight is and the suspension as well. my FC weighs more than my 240 but is far more nimble and light on it's feet. also the MR2 has a smaller footprint.

the 240SX isn't the beat all handling monster some would have you think it is.

aznpoopy · 06-22-2005, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gundamzeta

yeah I figured as much.

but are there any weight reduction, and or chasis modifications that are necessary because Nissan NA messed with it in the name of marketing, or is the S14 a solid chasis that can just be awakened by aftermarket mods.

theres nothing magical about a s14 whether it be US or Japanese

the reason its good is because its cheap and rwd, nothing more nothing less

don't go into it thinking this is some kind of monster waiting to be awakened with aftermarket parts

even after you bump up the hp and do full suspension job, there are going to be superior cars in almost any racing venue you can think of. autox, road racing, drift, etc.

the chassis is actually quite heavy
the car is really a piece of shit in stock trim

the advantage the 240 has over many other cars is that chassis/parts are relatively cheap and commonly available. its pretty cost effective for a weekend racer.

drift freaq · 06-22-2005, 07:15 PM

I will say this and it will probably offend some of the people i.e. S14 owners out there. Oh ya official disclaimer my buddys RB powered track S14 stomps all the MR2 Turbo's it comes across on the track all the time. hehehhehhehe
that said I have driven MR2's and I do like them. Though I will say its a apples to oranges thing to really compare a MR to FR. Though since we are here , S13's while S14 owners claim superiority over S13's still in my book rule in the S series chassis's here in the states. It asks to be driven hard, It asks to be thrown in a corner . Much more than even a setup S14 does . Plain and simple!! Not saying you can't throw a setup S14 and have it do will you can. Though it does not entice that kind of driving nearly as much as a S13 does. Yes the S13 chassis is not as stiff . Yes its noisier( sports cars are supposed to be noisy). It just plain and simple evokes the embodiment of sports car much more than the S14 does.
Now comparing a S13 to a MR2 is a little closer but again apples to oranges. In all out grip the MR2 just rocks!! Though it is a completely unforgiving chassis. I.E. drive a MR2 you better be a pretty decent driver. S13 on the other hand while you can drive it hard is much more forgiving allowing the driver to recover and save face. I.E. less experienced driver better off driving a S13.
Oh and for all the people out there that say a 240sx is a piece of crap car and only good because its cheap you really do not know much about sports cars and suspension technology.
1989 S13 came out 15k production sports car pulling .89 on the skid pad stock from the factory thats 2 tenths of a point below a C5 Corvette and a stock Porsche 911.
Add to that a drag coefficent somewhere around .31 and a center of gravity of .29 and you have a nice well balanced low center of gravity grippy entry level sports car.
Why? Because the rear Independant Multilink suspension Nissan stuck in our cars, is a world class suspension design. Its why the still use a variation of it today in their cars.
It won accolades when they brought it out in 89 and its still consider to be great. The only thing they did not do to the S chassis series which would have made it amazing was a wishbone front suspension setup of course that was because that was Z car and Skyline fare.
Now I am sure one you of is going to try to flame me for this but these are facts and prove out the naysayers of our cars.
There is reason the 180sx was Japans most popular sports car ever built. It lies in the combination of the above factors combined with the SR20det that made the car a Z killer in Japan. Now your all going to cry about how we got stuck with the KA and its sucks. Eat it !! There are ways around that. Fact is Americans are hotrodders we adapt and change things if they are not perfect. Get over it and go out and enjoy your car and stop putting it down. Its a whole lot better car than some of you may think.

06-22-2005, 04:04 AM	#1
gundamzeta BANNED Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: stockton CA Posts: 31 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	something weird I've noticed about the stock S14 I've have been test driving used S14's for the last 2 weeks and there is something I just can't get past. My Bone stock MR2 N/A T-Top weighs about 3000 lbs, and that's without all the junk I have in the trunk, but it still feels more agile and tossable than a Stock S14, which weighs signifacantly less. I've also noticed that The S14 is comparatively more prone to understeer than the MR2, which is probably obvious because of the different drivetrain layouts. However, I didn't think it would be that much of a difference. What's the deal?

06-22-2005, 04:15 AM	#2
!Zar! Premium Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: North Korea Posts: 14,576 Trader Rating: (27) Feedback Score: 27 reviews	You awnsered it yourself, it's the drivetran. Also, tires could be a big part of it. __________________

06-22-2005, 08:09 AM	#3
lucky7 Post Whore! Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Oakland (OT) Michigan Age: 36 Posts: 3,353 Trader Rating: (0) Rides Gallery: lucky7 Feedback Score: 0 reviews	you screwed yourself. every car you drive that isnt MR is going to feel this way.. FOREVER!!! __________________ -Dane

06-22-2005, 08:12 AM	#4
chuy Zilvia Addict Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Colorado some where Age: 44 Posts: 623 Trader Rating: (2) Feedback Score: 2 reviews	Stock (base)S14 dont have a rear sway-bar __________________ Slide Happy

06-22-2005, 08:19 AM	#5
kuramaya Nissanaholic! Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: 沖縄 , Japan Age: 48 Posts: 1,677 Trader Rating: (1) Rides Gallery: kuramaya Feedback Score: 1 reviews	As agile as the MR2 is, it will always handle better than an S14 (i presume you mean 240SX S14 Chassis) stock for stock...takes a bit of work on an S14 chassis to get it agile..it's a bit of a boat with stock suspension..sways and understeers terribly.. __________________ ZEROYON WEBSITE IS HOMO NEW SITE: blacklinux.com/innersanctum/index.php

06-22-2005, 09:46 AM	#6
sepulchral BANNED Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Midlothian. VA Posts: 2,050 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	because its compact smart guy.................... you think

06-22-2005, 10:52 AM	#8
gundamzeta BANNED Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: stockton CA Posts: 31 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Hmmm.. i always thought of the cars as near equal after modifications with the 240sx winning just a tad because of the FMIC capability. Think of it as two n^x curves that converge eventually with the 240sx intercepting the y-axis at lower spot than the MR2.

06-22-2005, 11:10 AM	#9
s14xman Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: washington Age: 37 Posts: 1,022 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	well stick with your MR2, leave the s14 for someone who appreciates its driving characteristics. You know what they say: "Once you go MR you can't jump on the 240sx bandwagon" __________________ FRontline (marinating since 02)

06-22-2005, 11:48 AM	#10
axiomatik Post Whore! Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: ATL Posts: 4,697 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	It has a lot to do with the drivetrain layout. Having a mid-engine setup reduces the moment of inertia of the car, making it easier to turn. While the MR2 is a bit heavier, the weight is more concentrated towards the center of the car, and it can turn about its vertical axis more easily. Also, stock S14s have a pretty soft suspension setup, which further exacerbates the situation.

06-22-2005, 12:39 PM	#14
tew photy Zilvia Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: san francisco Posts: 299 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	MR = engine in front of rear axels RR = engine behind rear axels if you look in the back of a 911, you will never again think the mr2 is RR

06-22-2005, 02:08 PM	#17
Pank Post Whore! Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Charlotte, NC Age: 38 Posts: 3,627 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	so did you just post this thread to tell everyone how much better MR2's are than s14's? if so, leave. __________________ high performance driveway photography zenki s14---v8 fc rx7 my crappy flickr page (drift cars whoo)

06-22-2005, 02:41 PM	#18
m0rex Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Nebraska Posts: 1,070 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	I was watching a Best of Motoring vol 6 and the champ s14 beat the amuse s2000 and technopro spirit mr-s. I just felt like saying this. __________________

06-22-2005, 02:52 PM	#19
infinitexsound Post Whore! Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: INtraweb Age: 39 Posts: 3,522 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	morex u feel like saying anything to get ur post numbers up, good thinkin.... u might wanna watch ur self with your responses to the MODs... anyways... stock suspension on a s14 isnt that great either... switching up is what really brings out the layout on the s14 __________________ S14 TrackSlut coming to a raceway near you... 510 TimeAttack on its way...

06-22-2005, 03:18 PM	#21
infinitexsound Post Whore! Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: INtraweb Age: 39 Posts: 3,522 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	yoshi just sit back and enjoy the show... popcorn? __________________ S14 TrackSlut coming to a raceway near you... 510 TimeAttack on its way...

06-22-2005, 03:24 PM	#22
justinhustle Nissanaholic! Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: ohio Age: 41 Posts: 1,693 Trader Rating: (0) Rides Gallery: justinhustle Feedback Score: 0 reviews	something weird ive noticed about s14s and s13s is the influx of goddamn idiots who attempt or achieve ownership of one.

06-22-2005, 03:59 PM	#25
Var Post Whore! Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Norcal Age: 39 Posts: 5,032 Trader Rating: (0) Rides Gallery: Var Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Did anyone else mention anything about wheelbase? i just skimmed through the thread. But i think having a shorter wheelbase makes the car rotate better. __________________ Hi

06-22-2005, 05:08 PM	#26
allblackS14 Zilvia Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Winter Park, FL Age: 38 Posts: 244 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Your salvation lies with suspension. Coilovers or Springs/Struts, better sway bars and minty air freshners...in Homer voice Ouuuuuuu mint

06-22-2005, 05:58 PM	#28
zenkiDori Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Denver Posts: 384 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	it has to do with where the weight is and the suspension as well. my FC weighs more than my 240 but is far more nimble and light on it's feet. also the MR2 has a smaller footprint. the 240SX isn't the beat all handling monster some would have you think it is. __________________ Zenki FC3S Zenki RHS13

06-22-2005, 07:15 PM	#30
drift freaq R.I.P. Aya, always love Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Los Feliz/Hollywood Posts: 18,558 Trader Rating: (215) Rides Gallery: drift freaq Feedback Score: 215 reviews	I will say this and it will probably offend some of the people i.e. S14 owners out there. Oh ya official disclaimer my buddys RB powered track S14 stomps all the MR2 Turbo's it comes across on the track all the time. hehehhehhehe that said I have driven MR2's and I do like them. Though I will say its a apples to oranges thing to really compare a MR to FR. Though since we are here , S13's while S14 owners claim superiority over S13's still in my book rule in the S series chassis's here in the states. It asks to be driven hard, It asks to be thrown in a corner . Much more than even a setup S14 does . Plain and simple!! Not saying you can't throw a setup S14 and have it do will you can. Though it does not entice that kind of driving nearly as much as a S13 does. Yes the S13 chassis is not as stiff . Yes its noisier( sports cars are supposed to be noisy). It just plain and simple evokes the embodiment of sports car much more than the S14 does. Now comparing a S13 to a MR2 is a little closer but again apples to oranges. In all out grip the MR2 just rocks!! Though it is a completely unforgiving chassis. I.E. drive a MR2 you better be a pretty decent driver. S13 on the other hand while you can drive it hard is much more forgiving allowing the driver to recover and save face. I.E. less experienced driver better off driving a S13. Oh and for all the people out there that say a 240sx is a piece of crap car and only good because its cheap you really do not know much about sports cars and suspension technology. 1989 S13 came out 15k production sports car pulling .89 on the skid pad stock from the factory thats 2 tenths of a point below a C5 Corvette and a stock Porsche 911. Add to that a drag coefficent somewhere around .31 and a center of gravity of .29 and you have a nice well balanced low center of gravity grippy entry level sports car. Why? Because the rear Independant Multilink suspension Nissan stuck in our cars, is a world class suspension design. Its why the still use a variation of it today in their cars. It won accolades when they brought it out in 89 and its still consider to be great. The only thing they did not do to the S chassis series which would have made it amazing was a wishbone front suspension setup of course that was because that was Z car and Skyline fare. Now I am sure one you of is going to try to flame me for this but these are facts and prove out the naysayers of our cars. There is reason the 180sx was Japans most popular sports car ever built. It lies in the combination of the above factors combined with the SR20det that made the car a Z killer in Japan. Now your all going to cry about how we got stuck with the KA and its sucks. Eat it !! There are ways around that. Fact is Americans are hotrodders we adapt and change things if they are not perfect. Get over it and go out and enjoy your car and stop putting it down. Its a whole lot better car than some of you may think. __________________ "Having a lot of tracks on a song is like putting stickers on a car to get more horsepower" New Video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uebV1OnbRsw Buy my mounts! http://zilvia.net/f/sale-items/51531...ns-mounts.html http://zilvia.net/f/tech-talk/317539...e-mouts-6.html

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