This is the roll center, suspension pickup, and steering angle modification thread. - Page 26 - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

SoSideways · 05-07-2010, 08:04 AM

Or you could just buy OEM Z32 tie rods and have close to 2" shorter length to start off with, then you can use those adapters without cutting jack shit.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anyway, I'm just gonna copy and paste the post I made on NRR for a little progress update.

So I went ahead and bought these guys from the PBM guys.

They're 1mm thicker than the Tein ones, thus they will provide a little more angle for the drifters. Teins in the front, PBM ones in the back.

Here's how everything is on the car during the test fit.

The rod end wasn't close to straight up and down on the tie rod end when it was screwed all the way in, so I ended up moving it out a little bit. Nothing is tightened to spec yet, as this was just a test fitting session.

And here's a picture to show how things look on a "stupid ricer fanboi drift lololololol kiddie"'s car.

The ride height is basically with 215/40/17 tires out front, with the very top of the tire at the fenders, no fender gap.

I will be switching to 2350/40/17s later on this year once my bank account has had a few to recover from the tie rod end adventures and the slew of parts I had to buy to get the car back on the road, so the ride height will be increased a little bit from there as well.

That is with 2" spacing between the FLCAs and knuckles and 2" of spacing between the tie rod ends and knuckles.

Pandapants · 05-07-2010, 12:31 PM

That looks really good!
Any pictures of it on the ground?

mmdb · 05-07-2010, 12:31 PM

That's a grip load of spacing. How's the car handle?

PoorMans180SX · 05-07-2010, 12:47 PM

Dang. That is a lot of spacing. I feel like things are going to start breaking.

You should also switch your tension rods from the top to the bottom of your FLCA. More dive and weight transfer = good for braking drift initiation. With 8k springs up front it shouldn't physically move too much. Race cars run far more dive than typical production cars.

SoSideways · 05-07-2010, 12:56 PM

Yeah I just might do that.

I don't know yet, I took those pictures yesterday after I got off of work, but the garage was like 300 degrees and I was already covered in sweat after taking those pics, so I just went inside and took it easy for the rest of the evening lol

I will try to work on the car tonight though.

Just gotta tighten all the suspension nuts/bolts in the rear, maybe try to set the toe a little more diligently, and up front I gotta tighten all the nuts/bolts and try to free the coilovers, then put everything back together.

Oh, and I'm also switching out this fan shroud for another one, so that's also on the to-do list.

Then I have to change the oil before I start her up, since the oil has been sitting in the engine for a year and a half. Might as well change out the old spark plugs for new ones too, since I have new ones sitting here.

And last but not least, going to pick up a Deka AGM battery tomorrow to replace my Miata sized battery from Autozone.

Then she should be moving on her own power!

Quote:

Originally Posted by mmdb

That's a grip load of spacing. How's the car handle?

Well, it's just 2"... don't your Driftworks knuckles give you like 2" of roll center correction?

PoorMans180SX · 05-07-2010, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PoorMans180SX

Dang. That is a lot of spacing. I feel like things are going to start breaking.

I just read Def's post on NRR about 3/4 in bolts suspending multiple S13's. Maybe they won't break, hahah.

SoSideways · 05-07-2010, 02:24 PM

Yeah, plus, if you go to the hardware store and pick up one of these in your hand and feel how stout they really are, you would change your mind in a heart beat.

It was funny, the other day, I went to Ace Hardware to pick up a couple of longer 3/4" bolts, and they came out to $6.99 each.

Then I went to Petsmart to pick up some litter for our ferrets' cages, and the bag of litter, after tax, came out to $6.88.

So a single grade 8 3/4" bolt cost more before tax, than a bag of litter for small animals after tax was added.

Awesome

95KA-Turbo · 05-07-2010, 04:44 PM

What front control arms are you running? I don't remember reading your set up anywhere, lol.

PoorMans180SX · 05-07-2010, 06:44 PM

I'm guessing Def-spec modified Godspeed arms.

Def · 05-07-2010, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PoorMans180SX

I just read Def's post on NRR about 3/4 in bolts suspending multiple S13's. Maybe they won't break, hahah.

I forget what the single shear value for a 3/4" 150 KSI(grade 8) bolt is, but I seem to recall somewhere around 40,000 lbs. Its max load at ultimate tensile strength is 66,000 lbs.

While this is complex loading of both shear and bending, the spacers take almost all of the bending load out.

So yea, assuming things are static you could probably hold around 15 S13s off of ONE of these bolts.

They're seriously big. In fact, the proper preload torque is somewhere north of 200 ft-lbs lubricated. It's even higher unlubricated.

mmdb · 05-07-2010, 08:02 PM

Actually 2" sound right. I guess just seeing em with spacers like that looks pretty raw. How's your arms sit while your car is static?

codyace · 05-08-2010, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PoorMans180SX

I'm guessing Def-spec modified Godspeed arms.

That they are

mmdb · 05-09-2010, 09:18 AM

Did a prelim test with the DW spindles. I do also have the moonface roll center adjusters in there which I need to remove. I had to trim a bit of the traction rod to get full suspension movement and grind down the powdercoat where the hub fits, but all in all it fit pretty well. Now I need to find a set of donor rear shocks so I can run these as well as get a custom ebrake line made.

*ManoNegra* · 05-09-2010, 11:07 AM

looking good Jimmy
going to get the ends of the ASTs done again?
How long/short are the ebrake lines?

mmdb · 05-09-2010, 11:14 AM

Thanks! Yeah I need to plan on that. More work... sigh

Looks like the lines need to be another foot or more. Trick is routing it around the axle and coilover. I'll have to take it to the fab shop. I hope I can get all this done before the track day next month. ARG!

racepar1 · 05-09-2010, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoSideways

Or you could just buy OEM Z32 tie rods and have close to 2" shorter length to start off with, then you can use those adapters without cutting jack shit.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anyway, I'm just gonna copy and paste the post I made on NRR for a little progress update.

So I went ahead and bought these guys from the PBM guys.

They're 1mm thicker than the Tein ones, thus they will provide a little more angle for the drifters. Teins in the front, PBM ones in the back.

Nice bumpsteer spacers you got there. It's funny that you spent all that time and money to correct geometry just to screw it up again with some dumbass spacers. Get serious man, that shit doesn't make any sense at all.

On the bright side, other then that you've got a very nice setup there. GREAT work! As for people thinking that something is going to break, I think not. While there is a lot of spacing there the spacers are PROPERLY designed. the only thing that I might question is bolt selection. I would use nothing less then AN bolts for that, although I am not certain that you didn't use those bolts.

Man, I can't wait to play with my suspension fab stuff. Right now I'm just doing boring ass labor intensive stitch welding, paint prep, and roll cage install. Besides that I barely haven any time to work on the car at all right now. I was hoping to have it done for the 240sx convention, but I'm not so sure that I'm going to make it anymore.

PoorMans180SX · 05-09-2010, 06:54 PM

Hahaha, I've had a low car with Z33 tie rods, spacers, and SPL ends. It's really not bad.

Roads around here are bumpy as heck, and it's fine with power steering.

Def · 05-09-2010, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by racepar1

Nice bumpsteer spacers you got there. It's funny that you spent all that time and money to correct geometry just to screw it up again with some dumbass spacers. Get serious man, that shit doesn't make any sense at all.

On the bright side, other then that you've got a very nice setup there. GREAT work! As for people thinking that something is going to break, I think not. While there is a lot of spacing there the spacers are PROPERLY designed. the only thing that I might question is bolt selection. I would use nothing less then AN bolts for that, although I am not certain that you didn't use those bolts.

Man, I can't wait to play with my suspension fab stuff. Right now I'm just doing boring ass labor intensive stitch welding, paint prep, and roll cage install. Besides that I barely haven any time to work on the car at all right now. I was hoping to have it done for the 240sx convention, but I'm not so sure that I'm going to make it anymore.

Grade 8 bolts are 150 KSI UTS, AN bolt specification is 125 KSI minimum(160 KSI max). The only advantage of an AN bolt is getting a bolt the exactly grip length needed so you're not putting any threads in shear.

Grade 8 bolts are 100% fine in this application as long as they're sized fine(at least 5/8").

***S14DB*** · 05-09-2010, 10:24 PM

We talking Standard Grade 8 not Metric Class 8.8 right?

95KA-Turbo · 05-09-2010, 10:27 PM

Def do you have any extra shock mount sphericals from your group buy? I saw the cut off was in March.

Def · 05-10-2010, 01:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by S14DB

We talking Standard Grade 8 not Metric Class 8.8 right?

Yes, standard english Grade 8 bolts. Have about the same mechanical properties as metric Class 10.9 bolts.

Def · 05-10-2010, 01:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 95KA-Turbo

Def do you have any extra shock mount sphericals from your group buy? I saw the cut off was in March.

Yep, have a few extra sets. PM'd.

SoSideways · 05-11-2010, 07:46 AM

Those spacers are Just a way for me to get a little more steering angle out of the rack itself without going to a pair of aftermarket knuckles.

On the one hand, I install those spacers and mess up the bumpsteer because now the pivot points of the FLCAs do not match the pivot points of the tie rods.

On the other hand, I would be dealing with some off the shelf knuckles modified by a company that is really only spec'd for one car, and if anything on my car differs from that one car, I will not get the desired results. Many of these companies claim zero ackerman for less drag during a drift, this and that... well, at what ride height? Using steering spacers or not?

Here's what I'm thinking.

Even though the tie rod's arcs is now different than the FLCAs' arcs due to the spacers, there still will be a point in which the two come very close to each other. As long as I space the tie rod ends down the right amount and make sure that the arcs are at their closest, bumpsteer shouldn't be bad at all.

BTW, mmdb, my FLCAs are really close to parallel to the ground now IIRC.

I meant to work on my car this weekend, but I ended up going to a car show on Saturday, got sunburned, and never really recovered until today. I feel OK today, so I might try to get some work done on the car tonight, although I might not have time to do that after I get off of work.

mmdb · 05-11-2010, 08:50 AM

Oh ok cool. Mine are slighly pointed inward, but my setup is a bit different, so 2" sound around the ballpark of adjustment to keep the arms level. With that, I'm still getting a tad bit of understeer with sticker tires (RE01Rs) up front and not so stick in the rear (Michilen (SP?) F1). Rear coll center here I come!

Someone in the SOCAL area loan me their rear s14 coilovers!!! I'll pay to rent!!!! PM ME!! AHHH!!!

ahem.. that is all.

SoSideways · 05-11-2010, 09:08 AM

Yeah it's probably because your roll centers front and rear aren't matched up even in the ball park area, thus the car is exhibiting weird handling characteristics.

With my FLCAs parallel to the ground and the strut mounting points up top being where they are, it looks like the angle between the FLCAs and knuckles are now less than 90 degrees, which should promote negative camber gain during compression, not positive camber!

Yay correct suspension behavior!! Here I come!!

95KA-Turbo · 05-12-2010, 10:45 PM

Got my rear spindles back today - the welds look awesome, got my inner tie rods last night, just waiting on Def's rear shock sphericals so I can get my suspension put back together and get this motor in!

I'll post before/after shots of the spindles when I get it all back together.

SoSideways · 05-13-2010, 07:56 AM

I was going to work on the car this weekend, but Saturday I went to a car show at the air force base, and it just so happens that it was sunny for the most part, and like 100*, and humid, being only like 50 ft from the beach, so after 3 hours of that I was drained and exhausted.

I'm still recovering from that right now, so I haven't really worked on the car at all.

BTW, if you guys are doing what I'm doing, you will need a 15/16" socket for the 5/8" nuts and bolts, as well as a 1-1/8" socket for the 3/4" nuts and bolts. I just picked these up couple of days ago, so I should make some progress here real soon.

GripTerror · 05-13-2010, 10:13 AM

MMDB DO IT!!!! I want reviewzzz

nieko · 05-13-2010, 10:27 AM

I have the SPL outters on my car right now... and they just dont cut it, not enough spacing.

Is there anyway i could just buy a longer grade 8 bolt and get spacers made? Dont see why not but please let me know if its a bad idea.

And what does Def do to the godspeed arms?

that setup looks like it works with the spacing.

SoSideways · 05-13-2010, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nieko

I have the SPL outters on my car right now... and they just dont cut it, not enough spacing.

Is there anyway i could just buy a longer grade 8 bolt and get spacers made? Dont see why not but please let me know if its a bad idea.

And what does Def do to the godspeed arms?

that setup looks like it works with the spacing.

You just need to drill out your knuckles to accept a 5/8" grade 8 bolt, and you could probably get away with using some washers to add to the 1" of spacing that you get from the SPL hardware.

It won't be as nice as having an actual spacer like the one they provide you with, or the ones I had made, but it should still work.

BTW, sorry it's taking me so long to get my car back on the ground. I've just been exhausted from doing house choirs and what not after work every day that I just don't feel like slaving away in the hot garage after work lately.

Hopefully this weekend I'll have some time to get under my car so I can get it back on the ground and I would be able to give you guys an initial review of my tie rod ends.

05-07-2010, 08:04 AM	#751
SoSideways Post Whore! Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: 你老母 Posts: 4,371 Trader Rating: (4) Feedback Score: 4 reviews	Or you could just buy OEM Z32 tie rods and have close to 2" shorter length to start off with, then you can use those adapters without cutting jack shit. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anyway, I'm just gonna copy and paste the post I made on NRR for a little progress update. So I went ahead and bought these guys from the PBM guys. They're 1mm thicker than the Tein ones, thus they will provide a little more angle for the drifters. Teins in the front, PBM ones in the back. Here's how everything is on the car during the test fit. The rod end wasn't close to straight up and down on the tie rod end when it was screwed all the way in, so I ended up moving it out a little bit. Nothing is tightened to spec yet, as this was just a test fitting session. And here's a picture to show how things look on a "stupid ricer fanboi drift lololololol kiddie"'s car. The ride height is basically with 215/40/17 tires out front, with the very top of the tire at the fenders, no fender gap. I will be switching to 2350/40/17s later on this year once my bank account has had a few to recover from the tie rod end adventures and the slew of parts I had to buy to get the car back on the road, so the ride height will be increased a little bit from there as well. That is with 2" spacing between the FLCAs and knuckles and 2" of spacing between the tie rod ends and knuckles. __________________ SoSideway's iTrader Rating!! *SoSideways' Review Thread!!* http://sosideways.wordpress.com/

05-07-2010, 12:31 PM	#753
mmdb Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: 240sx Posts: 1,558 Trader Rating: (20) Feedback Score: 20 reviews	That's a grip load of spacing. How's the car handle? __________________ .25 till 3

05-07-2010, 12:47 PM	#754
PoorMans180SX Zilvia.net Advertiser Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Michigan Age: 33 Posts: 5,431 Trader Rating: (16) Rides Gallery: PoorMans180SX Feedback Score: 16 reviews	Dang. That is a lot of spacing. I feel like things are going to start breaking. You should also switch your tension rods from the top to the bottom of your FLCA. More dive and weight transfer = good for braking drift initiation. With 8k springs up front it shouldn't physically move too much. Race cars run far more dive than typical production cars. __________________ Build: http://zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?t=643065 Friends don't let friends buy knock-offs.

05-07-2010, 02:24 PM	#757
SoSideways Post Whore! Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: 你老母 Posts: 4,371 Trader Rating: (4) Feedback Score: 4 reviews	Yeah, plus, if you go to the hardware store and pick up one of these in your hand and feel how stout they really are, you would change your mind in a heart beat. It was funny, the other day, I went to Ace Hardware to pick up a couple of longer 3/4" bolts, and they came out to $6.99 each. Then I went to Petsmart to pick up some litter for our ferrets' cages, and the bag of litter, after tax, came out to $6.88. So a single grade 8 3/4" bolt cost more before tax, than a bag of litter for small animals after tax was added. Awesome __________________ SoSideway's iTrader Rating!! *SoSideways' Review Thread!!* http://sosideways.wordpress.com/

05-07-2010, 04:44 PM	#758
95KA-Turbo Post Whore! Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: LA Age: 36 Posts: 3,402 Trader Rating: (19) Feedback Score: 19 reviews	What front control arms are you running? I don't remember reading your set up anywhere, lol. __________________ Instagram - SJKnoop

05-07-2010, 12:31 PM	#752
Pandapants Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: SoFla Age: 32 Posts: 302 Trader Rating: (4) Feedback Score: 4 reviews	That looks really good! Any pictures of it on the ground?

05-07-2010, 06:44 PM	#759
PoorMans180SX Zilvia.net Advertiser Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Michigan Age: 33 Posts: 5,431 Trader Rating: (16) Rides Gallery: PoorMans180SX Feedback Score: 16 reviews	I'm guessing Def-spec modified Godspeed arms. __________________ Build: http://zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?t=643065 Friends don't let friends buy knock-offs.

05-07-2010, 08:02 PM	#761
mmdb Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: 240sx Posts: 1,558 Trader Rating: (20) Feedback Score: 20 reviews	Actually 2" sound right. I guess just seeing em with spacers like that looks pretty raw. How's your arms sit while your car is static? __________________ .25 till 3

05-09-2010, 09:18 AM	#763
mmdb Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: 240sx Posts: 1,558 Trader Rating: (20) Feedback Score: 20 reviews	Did a prelim test with the DW spindles. I do also have the moonface roll center adjusters in there which I need to remove. I had to trim a bit of the traction rod to get full suspension movement and grind down the powdercoat where the hub fits, but all in all it fit pretty well. Now I need to find a set of donor rear shocks so I can run these as well as get a custom ebrake line made. __________________ .25 till 3

05-09-2010, 11:07 AM	#764
ManoNegra Guild of Skullduggerous Intent Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Socal Posts: 7,841 Trader Rating: (48) Feedback Score: 48 reviews	looking good Jimmy going to get the ends of the ASTs done again? How long/short are the ebrake lines?

05-09-2010, 11:14 AM	#765
mmdb Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: 240sx Posts: 1,558 Trader Rating: (20) Feedback Score: 20 reviews	Thanks! Yeah I need to plan on that. More work... sigh Looks like the lines need to be another foot or more. Trick is routing it around the axle and coilover. I'll have to take it to the fab shop. I hope I can get all this done before the track day next month. ARG! __________________ .25 till 3

05-09-2010, 06:54 PM	#767
PoorMans180SX Zilvia.net Advertiser Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Michigan Age: 33 Posts: 5,431 Trader Rating: (16) Rides Gallery: PoorMans180SX Feedback Score: 16 reviews	Hahaha, I've had a low car with Z33 tie rods, spacers, and SPL ends. It's really not bad. Roads around here are bumpy as heck, and it's fine with power steering. __________________ Build: http://zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?t=643065 Friends don't let friends buy knock-offs.

05-09-2010, 10:24 PM	#769
*S14DB* AFC #1 Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: 昨晩あなたのお母さんの家 Posts: 20,181 Trader Rating: (3) Feedback Score: 3 reviews	We talking Standard Grade 8 not Metric Class 8.8 right? __________________ Comments should be taken as Opinions not as Statements of Fact

05-09-2010, 10:27 PM	#770
95KA-Turbo Post Whore! Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: LA Age: 36 Posts: 3,402 Trader Rating: (19) Feedback Score: 19 reviews	Def do you have any extra shock mount sphericals from your group buy? I saw the cut off was in March. __________________ Instagram - SJKnoop

05-11-2010, 07:46 AM	#773
SoSideways Post Whore! Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: 你老母 Posts: 4,371 Trader Rating: (4) Feedback Score: 4 reviews	Those spacers are Just a way for me to get a little more steering angle out of the rack itself without going to a pair of aftermarket knuckles. On the one hand, I install those spacers and mess up the bumpsteer because now the pivot points of the FLCAs do not match the pivot points of the tie rods. On the other hand, I would be dealing with some off the shelf knuckles modified by a company that is really only spec'd for one car, and if anything on my car differs from that one car, I will not get the desired results. Many of these companies claim zero ackerman for less drag during a drift, this and that... well, at what ride height? Using steering spacers or not? Here's what I'm thinking. Even though the tie rod's arcs is now different than the FLCAs' arcs due to the spacers, there still will be a point in which the two come very close to each other. As long as I space the tie rod ends down the right amount and make sure that the arcs are at their closest, bumpsteer shouldn't be bad at all. BTW, mmdb, my FLCAs are really close to parallel to the ground now IIRC. I meant to work on my car this weekend, but I ended up going to a car show on Saturday, got sunburned, and never really recovered until today. I feel OK today, so I might try to get some work done on the car tonight, although I might not have time to do that after I get off of work. __________________ SoSideway's iTrader Rating!! *SoSideways' Review Thread!!* http://sosideways.wordpress.com/

05-11-2010, 08:50 AM	#774
mmdb Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: 240sx Posts: 1,558 Trader Rating: (20) Feedback Score: 20 reviews	Oh ok cool. Mine are slighly pointed inward, but my setup is a bit different, so 2" sound around the ballpark of adjustment to keep the arms level. With that, I'm still getting a tad bit of understeer with sticker tires (RE01Rs) up front and not so stick in the rear (Michilen (SP?) F1). Rear coll center here I come! Someone in the SOCAL area loan me their rear s14 coilovers!!! I'll pay to rent!!!! PM ME!! AHHH!!! ahem.. that is all. __________________ .25 till 3 Last edited by mmdb; 05-12-2010 at 12:00 AM..

05-11-2010, 09:08 AM	#775
SoSideways Post Whore! Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: 你老母 Posts: 4,371 Trader Rating: (4) Feedback Score: 4 reviews	Yeah it's probably because your roll centers front and rear aren't matched up even in the ball park area, thus the car is exhibiting weird handling characteristics. With my FLCAs parallel to the ground and the strut mounting points up top being where they are, it looks like the angle between the FLCAs and knuckles are now less than 90 degrees, which should promote negative camber gain during compression, not positive camber! Yay correct suspension behavior!! Here I come!! __________________ SoSideway's iTrader Rating!! *SoSideways' Review Thread!!* http://sosideways.wordpress.com/

05-12-2010, 10:45 PM	#776
95KA-Turbo Post Whore! Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: LA Age: 36 Posts: 3,402 Trader Rating: (19) Feedback Score: 19 reviews	Got my rear spindles back today - the welds look awesome, got my inner tie rods last night, just waiting on Def's rear shock sphericals so I can get my suspension put back together and get this motor in! I'll post before/after shots of the spindles when I get it all back together. __________________ Instagram - SJKnoop

05-13-2010, 07:56 AM	#777
SoSideways Post Whore! Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: 你老母 Posts: 4,371 Trader Rating: (4) Feedback Score: 4 reviews	I was going to work on the car this weekend, but Saturday I went to a car show at the air force base, and it just so happens that it was sunny for the most part, and like 100, and humid, being only like 50 ft from the beach, so after 3 hours of that I was drained and exhausted. I'm still recovering from that right now, so I haven't really worked on the car at all. BTW, if you guys are doing what I'm doing, you will need a 15/16" socket for the 5/8" nuts and bolts, as well as a 1-1/8" socket for the 3/4" nuts and bolts. I just picked these up couple of days ago, so I should make some progress here real soon. __________________ SoSideway's iTrader Rating!!* *SoSideways' Review Thread!!* http://sosideways.wordpress.com/

05-13-2010, 10:13 AM	#778
GripTerror Zilvia Addict Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Canada Age: 36 Posts: 685 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	MMDB DO IT!!!! I want reviewzzz

05-13-2010, 10:27 AM	#779
nieko Post Whore! Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Westminster Age: 30 Posts: 2,694 Trader Rating: (14) Feedback Score: 14 reviews	I have the SPL outters on my car right now... and they just dont cut it, not enough spacing. Is there anyway i could just buy a longer grade 8 bolt and get spacers made? Dont see why not but please let me know if its a bad idea. And what does Def do to the godspeed arms? that setup looks like it works with the spacing. __________________

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