jamanrr

Opinions and who runs them? I run mine and really can not tell the difference unless I run the shit out of the car. I think it may be a little over kill for a normal street mod sr20det but if you run into high boost then temps get up there pretty fast and they come down fast as well especially at idle. I am thinking about switching back to the oem one since it takes my car a long time to get to normal operating temperatures. I run the fan shroud/ clutch fan combination and the NISMO thermo would probably be awesome if I was drifting and running the car hard all the time but I do not do that and am just wanting some opinions on some people who have ran them for a while? and if they like them?



thanks

Sileighty_85

What rad are you running?

I have the Thermo and Koyo E-fans....ect

Mine gets up to operating temp faster with the Nismo than the OEM one, before the Nismo my temps were 85-90* C then swapped in the Thermo and Koyo now my temps dont go above 70*C.
On a hot day and running 21psi my temp probably only get to 73*C on my Defi gauge.

I DD'd mine for 3 years with out any issues. Either your gauge sucks or you go an Air pocket in the system somewhere

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jspaeth

Agree with what you wrote....BUT, even if I do some full throttle pulls consecutively, I don't really see temps go up much at all.....perhaps you have air bubbles leading to poor circulation of the coolant? It shouldn't SHOOT up, because the thermostat simply opens more to allow more cooled water to flow into the system.

I highly doubt you are over-running the cooling capacity of the car doing some pulls on the street....something else must be wrong.


70* for driving around the car is not necessarily good! The engine is designed to operate at a ceratin temperature.

10* difference in coolant temp may equate to much more than 10* difference in the temperature of the metal componenets inside the car.


I am on OEM thermostat and a 14" Permacool fan with Koyo Radiator (N flow) and NO SHROUD, and regardless of what the temperature is outside, my coolant temps are always between 80-85 C.....even if it's 100F outside.


that being said, I would think that maybe in a purely track situation, where you are continuously beating on the car, maybe a Nismo thermostat would be good, because possibly the OEM one doesn't flow as freely even if it's open all the way (?), but I don't actually know if this is true.


As far as I am concerned, if you cannot keep the temps down while daily driving, there is something else wrong....slapping a Nismo thermostat on there is a band aid.

All that it does is allow the coolant to circulate to the radiator more rapidly...

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Sileighty_85

Its fine when the engine is fully built and tuned with a PFC to compensate for the operating temps, even if it is too low.

Nismo designed the Thermo to open at 67*C, Nismo Is aware of how to tune their engines and componets if they though it was an issue then they would have made the Thermo open later.

At least that just my thoughts on it

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1989 Built SR GT2871R -363whp
1998 S14 W/RB25- 250ish (For Now)
1986 SR86 - 200ish
1990 R32 GTR - 320hp
Don't Buy Engines from JDM-Online http://zilvia.net/f/businesses/207457-jdm-online.html
Don't Buy XS-Power or SSAC Shit

jspaeth

I understand that you have compensated the fuel and timing maps....that is easy, that's not what i am talking about.


The coolant being 15* lower than the operating temp (80-85) could mean that the actual temperature of the metals in the engine block and head itself are significantly more than 15* cooler as well.

I am not saying it is DEFINITELY BAD, but I think it is something to be looked into.


And when the Nismo thermo OPENS at 67, maybe it was designed for race situations where the temp finally does get all the way up to 80?

Not sure, just playing devil's advocate.

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jamanrr

Not really with the oem thermostat and e fans I would see 95-100 degrees C
Now with the Nismo thermostat and clutch fans I see 80s most of the time and rarely will I see a 91 or so always below 90 degrees C -- do not know if this is good or bad?

codyace

Funny how you went from expert on the subject, to not really knowing. Typical FFF if there ever was one.

Nismo Tstat is WAY overkill for any street car (which I told you in your other thread) and is counterintuitive to say the least. I also asked you where you are referencing your temperature from?

Bottom line is, stock thermo and a proper setup will run 200/210 out of the return (side of the head) at a track day without issue. That's perfect if you ask me.



So you have it tuned for low temp driving/start up? That's very uncommon, especially with PFC

No one is doubting Nismo's intention with their product - however the most important thing you are missing is that Nismo designs parts for race/track cars...not street cars. If I had a track only car, then for sure I'd run a Nismo T Stat and not worry. Fact of the matter is, it's a street car, and I don't need it.

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jspaeth

Furthermore, what i was trying to say is that just because it STARTS opening at 67.5, doesn't mean that it is intended to CAUSE a steady state coolant temp of 70*

Maybe it opening earlier is a consequence of it being designed to flow more when the engine is really demanding a TON of heat be removed from the engine....

I am still not convinced that having a steady state coolant temp of 70* is perfectly fine....

The metals all expand and contract and what not.


And if you know about how heat exchangers work, a 10* on one side of the exchanger does NOT correspond to a 10* difference on the other side.

I.E. If the coolant is 10* cooler, the metal is more than likely a LOT more than 10* cooler.

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Sileighty_85

Im no Tuner, but Yeah it was tuned at 70*, There is a section in the PFC that temperature adjustable, Im guessing its for timing.

If my tuner thought it was an issue im sure he would have told me about it.

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1989 Built SR GT2871R -363whp
1998 S14 W/RB25- 250ish (For Now)
1986 SR86 - 200ish
1990 R32 GTR - 320hp
Don't Buy Engines from JDM-Online http://zilvia.net/f/businesses/207457-jdm-online.html
Don't Buy XS-Power or SSAC Shit

jamanrr

I never claimed to be an expert on the subject. Just a learning experience from switching from e fans and OEM thermostat to the NISMO one.

referencing what temperature? I guess you mean where I monitor it? From my PFC temp readout. I do like how it works in that when I run high high boost situations i.e. 18.5 lbs. It will heat up to 91 or 92 ish and then when it idles down or comes down to a stop the temperature will drop and settle to mid to high 80s C. It makes sense to me and I think it should do well at the drag strip which is what I like to do.

This thread was people that have the NISMO thermostat? I am a little confused as to why you responded to this thread if you do not have one? Again, I think 200-210 is too dam high for the turbo and it will lose some efficiency due to heat soak. It has to do with thermodynamics.





I really would not want to do that but it does take a lot longer for the Nismo T-stat to get the car to normal operating temperature. I think 60ish is too cold for normal running and your gas mileage will go to shit. 78-90ish degrees C seems to be where the car loves to run the best. The SR20DET loves heat.


probably not but that was not the question. I was looking for people who ran it and what temperatures they see the most. Again, did you reply to this thread just to show up someone you claim to be a FFF (whatever that is?) or did you have anything productive to add? I also switched coolant from Prestone 50/50 to the Nissan Green OEM stuff and noticed a difference as well. Cody this is no knock on you but if you have no ideas on it and/ or no experience with it then why post here?

jspaeth

Everyone is trying to help you realize that a Nismo thermostat is completely unnecessary unless the car is seeing CONSTANT high revs high boost situation.

Other than that, a stock thermostat is just fine, as is a stock radiator.


If your temps are getting THAT high, I would suspect a water pump issue or air in the system.

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Slidin' Sam

Run a N.O. Thermostat, it's WAY cheaper than Nismo and keeps everything nice and cool...they have a C.B. option too so you can get the car to warm up faster in the winter time!

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jamanrr

My NISMO T-Stat was 50 bucks?

As far as the comments. My car has not nor ever over heated so who ever said that crap is so far off base. Well I just do not know what to tell ya?

I could run the normal thermostat. It makes no difference really other than one opens at 62* C and the other one at 74.6* C. I was just trying to see where everyone that runs a NISMO t-stat has for coolant temperatures? It was not be flamed nor to give out bad advice. It was just to see how others peoples cars handle as far as cooling. There is nothing worng with my car, it runs strong and true and I think it LOVES me. I have poured a lot of time, money and energy into it trying to figure things out on my own. Not asking for advice other than to see how people that have used something like it and how theirs works. If I had a problem with it or needed some great help then I would start a thread about it. This was just to see how people who have the NISMO thermostat like them and what temps they see? that is all- just saying

Gas Mileage does suffer from a car that is running too cool and IMO 200-210 is too hot since you start seeing the old temp needle start to increase in the 215-218 degree range.

jspaeth

No it's cool, no worries man. We are just trying to tell you that quite a few people have the same setup or similar and NEVER see temps that high for regular driving, including drag strip or some pulls around the highway and stuff.

The point is, if you get a Nismo, your temps may go down, but it may be just masking an underlying issue.

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jamanrr

I think my temps went down because I switched to an airplane propeller with a big dome covering called a shroud. My car ran in those temp ranges Cody's car ran and it ran good. The turbo feels like it spools easier and holds boost better with a lower ambient temperature. Cause when your car gets hot then the entire engine bay does as well. I could believe that the Nismo t-stat would be bad if you said something like it makes the engine work harder to get to normal operating temperatures?

I do not think the t-stat makes a difference at all other than opening up sooner. I believe that the OEM one would hold the same temperature as the NISMO one. It opens sooner thus allowing for a lower coolant temperature to start with. The only benefits I could possibly see is if you track or drag the car. I will probably switch back to the oem t-stat this fall cause I could see this system running 68* C during the winter months and that IMO is too cold.

jspaeth

I agree that the whole engine bay gets hotter, but that doesn't necessarily mean the intake charge does, if you have a good FMIC.

My Intake Air Temp sensor is located in my cold pipe.....it consistently reads only about 1-2* C above the outside air temperature.

Granted, it doesn't respond fast enough to detect the increase in air temperature when the car goes into boost, but that is something that can essentially be taken into when tuning.


Now, when I turn the car off and let it sit, the IAT sensor heat soaks and goes up considerably, usually about 5-10-15 *C above the ambient temperature....

Like I said, MY sensor does NOT respond to air temp changes ery quickly.....so it takes about 5-10 minutes of driving for it to come back down to the correct temp...

During that period, the car runs slightly lean, since higher IAT calls for less fuel....but naturally it is an "artificial" reading associated with the heat soak.

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jamanrr

where are intake air temperature sensors at normally? Are you talking as part of the MAF? there are only like 5 or 6 sensors on a sr20det

MAF
TPS
IACV
Knock
Coolant temp
Oil Pressure

jspaeth

Sorry.....I was talking about for MY setup, which is a MAP setup....not MAF.

MAF attempts to directly measure air flow, whereas MAP only indirectly measures this through the manifold pressure.

A side effect is that for a MAP setup, you need to include a temperature correction, because for the same pressure, the air with the lower temperature has a lower density (ideal gas law....)

Sorry if I confused you at all....was just trying to say that hot under hood temps don't necessarily mean the charge air going into the engine is hot at all.

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Slidin' Sam

I understand compensating for air temp, but is there any reason to compensate for humidity? Sorry...MAP talk is off topic here, but just curious since you brought it up...

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jamanrr

One measures Absolute pressure and the other Mass Air or Volume. Why would you switch to a MAP? eliminates the miscalculation of air from the BOV?

You do realize that Honda's run MAPs and all Nissans since the dawn of Datsun's have had MAFs. No pissing contest intended just trying to see what your reasoning was for it?

Ideal Gas Law and this is from memory simple no google P1V1=P2V2

jspaeth

Can't really say precisely why I chose one over the under.

In my mind, I could imagine that it would be easier for a MAF to fall out of calibration with time than a MAP (since I effectively have TWO MAPs to compare to each other....one separate MAP each for the ECU and AVC-R boost controller).


As for humidity, I am not sure if any engine management compensate for this (don't think so), but if you monitor your AFR, you will notice your car always seems to run a little richer when it's really humid or raining, because there is less air than what the ECU thinks....

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codyace

205/210 on a track day, out of the head, is completly normal and will not effect performance...or at least to a degree where you'd even notice it. I've dynoed my car at 180 and 200 and it was within 5 hp....negligable to say the least, probably down to dyno calculation at best.


What I'm trying to explain to you, is that a thermostat will not make the car run 'cooler' or 'better'...that's the job of the radiator. 210 I REPEAT will not blow up your car, will not make it run poorly, nor is it an issue.

However if your temp is incraseing under boost, there IS an issue. My car runs at 180-190 all the time on the street, even after hard pulls and goofing around on backroads....remember once the thermo is open, it's down to the radiator to regulate temp.

Also, temperature is about the last of my concern on a water cooled turbo...the water's job is to REMOVE heat from the turbo itself...so even if it's 220 degrees, the turbo is at a certainn point, and the return will always be XXX. I'd focus more on facts than assumptions - again I have he dyno experience to tell you, that below 180 hurts HP, and 180-210 doesn't make a measurebale difference to worry about.

The goal is to maintain pressure, regardless of what the base temp is at. If you are going up in temp under boost, something is a miss (air, HD, etc etc). Do I run a Nismo thermostat? NO. Does that make my opinion worthless? NO. I understand *why* not to run one. My objective isn't to expand my signature list, rather to make my car run optimally.

(FFF= Forum F-Face AKA: ArmChair experts like you, totally changing your opinion in two threads)

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codyace

Both have their advantages and disadvantages for sure. MAP is typically best for SUPER high HP applications, or race applications, as it simplfies things, and helps reduce read error. MAF is best for street cars as it adapts to the actual flow, not just load/pressure.

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jamanrr

I agree, I want my car to run between 180-200 degrees F and not really any higher than that. I never said it would make it run better but did say it helps in cooling better when used in conjunction with the clutch/ shroud fan. As far as temperatures rising with boost pressure. I was talking about this morning while the car was still getting to normal operating temperature. I was at 64* C and then punched it went to 67 then into the 70s quicker than it would have had I just putted around in it. My engine swap is over 4 years old and I have been running this setup for around 2 years now and have not had trouble (knock on wood). It gets HOT as hell where I live. I can not see how in the world when you are knocking out 18-20 lb boost pulls that your temperatures will not increase -- I promise you that your exhaust manifold temps are somewhere near 700-1000 degrees F that your engine bay temps will increase as well as oil and coolant temps. Just the way it is. My car runs fine and I have no issues but then it is a modified car just as yours is. I am sure anyone running high boost who runs their car hard should expect it to increase a degree or two when you are running it wide open.

Again, you either have me wrong or think everyone here takes the same approach to their car as you do? Some people like me look for a better way to do something or find something that is more efficient unlike most who only fixes it when broken. It was not my goal to mask a problem or hide a problem. It was a way to keep me south of the 200 * F mark instead of at or North of the 200* F mark. I take care of my cars and do not drift or track them and do not have your experience on the dyno which I admit but I have a great street car and always look for ways to improve it.

jspaeth

SOmething is not right with your cooling system then.

Even with stock radiator and stock thermostat, my coolant temperature measured from the OEM location under the throttle body is always 82-85C.

Regardless of if it's 25F out or 95F, that is what the temperature always is at.

We are telling you that there is something wrong if you see changes in your coolant temp outside of a ~5*C range or so.

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jamanrr

this not your car we are talking about, and I do not live in New Jersey. I live in freaking Arkansas were the low yesterday was 92 degrees and that was with 60 percent humidity. My car does not overheat and I do not see 5 degree swings in change in temperature once I hit normal operating temperatures and that was NOT WHAT I WAS SAYING. I was talking about normal operating temperatures. I have bleed the crap out of the system and am losing no coolant and having no known issues? I mean the car should have large swings in moving until it gets to normal operating temperatures and depending on how hot it is outside then that is where the coolant tends to go. I do not run an under splash guard as well. The water pump is new and done when I swapped turbos. The oil gets changed at 2000 miles and the plugs done every 6 thousand miles or less.

How in the hell could I have something wrong with my coolant system when I see normal operating temperatures from 85-90 degrees C or 180-200 degrees F? I do not get it for if there was something wrong with my cooling system then I would see overheating or temperatures higher than 210-215 degrees F which it never gets there even when I ran e-fans. It is like Cody said the FMIC kinda reduces cooling effectiveness when moving and engine can only cool so much then. The old setup with the e fans and normal thermostat would get to 200 to 210 degrees F and never move and now this setup with the NISMO thermostat and clutch fans stays in the 80ish degree C range or 190ish F and when it does go up to 90 degrees C or around 200 degrees F it will come down when setting or idling and I think that has to do with the shrouding and the ducting I have on the front of the car. It sucks in a hella lot of air and you can feel it moving over the whole engine.

codyace

Your right, he lives in NJ where it's been 100 degrees at 100% humidity for the week. Still no overheat on my car or his. Not sure why you have ANY issues if cooler/equal to where we are

That's the thing: Once the cap is open at normal OP temp, it shouldn't fluctuate at all. Take some time to look at how our cars cooling system works in the FSM.


Again, what are your after head temps??

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WorkInProgressK

Basicly, the nismo termo doesn't do anything. If someone prooves that it flows better then maybe. But opening earlier and later has just an effect on you heating system and nothing else. If someone TRULY tracks their car not a drift once every hour, I mean 20-40mins continuous racing (with stock rad obviously). You would realize that you temp is way beyond the 70C point. Basically its just open and stays open. On my local track when I had stock rad and fans. my engine would cool by boiling its water. So steady 100C. Not dangerous as long as I had water.

So ditch that fancy Nismo part and stick with the stock termo.

jspaeth

Thank you grasshopper

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jamanrr

I looked at the diagrams and I am using the stock coolant temperature to pull temps from. The apexi PFC pulls the temps from the ecu where the temp sensor is located on the intake manifold. I assume you guys are pulling your temperatures from the coolant line running back into the radiator (after head as you call it). I really do not see why it would matter to pull temperatures before or after the head. They should not differ by more than a few degrees. The coolant is cooled through the radiator and then sent back through the engine.

The only difference, I even see with the NISMO thermostat is it takes it a while longer to get into normal operating temperature since it opens at 62* C. I will still watch it for a while cause once I get into the mid to 70s all is good with it. Again, I played around with it to see if I could get more consistent cooling and drop temps a little. The desire to get to a point where you could run the car as effective when it was hella hot then when it is cooler out. You know as when you run our cars when it is cool outside and they are getting good air and they make more power and run better. There is a sweet spot of efficiency between temperatures and turbo.

I run a/c on my car and it has had trouble getting really cool because the low pressure side is so close to the exhaust manifold and it does not get cold like it should. I am also switching to the factory turbo shielding and may even try to source a turbo blanket. Factory turbo cars have and use that shielding and it should drop surrounding temperatures as well. It is just me playing around with shit to see what kind of results I get. that is all.