Speed Junkie

Let's see if this helps.

TheRealSy90

Have you tried driving it yet? Are you having an issue of some sort?

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Speed Junkie

The first thing to remember is that its not the control arm, per say, that should ideally be parallel with the ground, it should be the pivot points. With that being said, yours looks fine.

In regards to bump steer, this happens when the arc that the outer tie rod joints travels is a different distance than the LCA ball joint arc. This results in the wheels turning as needed to compensate (the alternative is the tie rod compressing lol). With that being said, spacing the outer tie rod end as much as you have is probably the best thing you can do to reduce bump steer. If you trace the arcs you could see that they're still not the same radius but it's better than stock. How much bump steer you get will also vary based on how much you are turning. In other words, you may have almost no bump steer going straight but get more bump steer mid corner when you hit a bump.

So, yeah align the car with a hair of front toe in. OEM spec has a hair of toe in to help band-aid the toe out bump steer in the oem suspension. And then just go out and drive it. You know you're getting toe out bump steer when the car darts around as you go over uneven surfaces and hilly roads.

Bnr32gtr

Speed junkie thanks for reposting the pic and greatly appreciate you taking the time to help/explain what i got going on and what I need to do. I don't have tags on the car just trying to get as much of the bugs worked out before the first event this year but I might once I get alignment kind of dialed in I'll take it around the block and see what it dose. Thanks again man!

PoorMans180SX

I would not use the upper hole on those crossmembers. As much as street faction likes to tout that they "engineer" their products, they do not. Motary has models of bump steer with the control arms moved up and they are much worse than stock. Spacing the tie rod end cannot fix this.

Also, with regards to alignment: Unless you're planning on driving in the wet a lot, an alignment with front toe in and low-ackerman knuckles will make the turn in quite poor, and the car will understeer. I highly recommend starting from zero and adjusting toe out as you like it. You'll find steady state handling is quite dependent on static toe settings, and I almost always end up running some kind of toe out on MacPherson suspension setups.

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PoorMans180SX

This is a good read.

https://au.gktech.com/news/gktech-re...AkWXyhKreyfxZM

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Bluejayde

Read that this morning. Really makes me lean towards GKTech over PBM. I just need drop correction, no crazy angle up front, and I want coilover mounting point relocated for more shock travel and the hubs spaced out so I don't have to run spacers anymore. Thoughts?

PoorMans180SX

It would help if you were a little more clear on which things you wanted specifically for the front and rear.

No knuckles on the market space the hubs out. You should do this in the front with a longer lower control arm and moving the camber plate adjustment out. For the rear, you need a complete set of adjustable arms, and even then, it's a task. Just run spacers, it's totally fine.

Shock travel is a definite bonus of any drop knuckle. Lowering the car with the knuckle allows a wider range of adjustment if you're really trying to dial in your bump stops and total travel.

GKtech's "grip" knuckle would work well for you in the front, and the rear would of course complement it.

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Speed Junkie

It is hard to tell from the photo but yeah you can see the control arm pivot is definitely higher than the tie rod pivot. And if the models are out there then yeah, I agree.


I didn't realize the PBM cut knuckles reduce Ackerman. Either way I don't think that .08° of front toe in will result in catastrophic understeer. Going from zero toe to OEM spec toe in on my car helped tremendously with bump steer. Far more comfortable on the road, it understeers ever so slightly when brought up to the limit and initiating a slide is still as easy as before. With that being said, I have stock knuckles and OEM Ackerman.

tuzzio

I may be selling my S14 front grip knuckles, if anyone is interested.

Bluejayde

I'm listening...


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Elmerfudd

I agree the caster is the major issue , but It's also your wheel spec it's quite a bit more negative then your setup would like a 18x8 et +20 would drive much better. But it wouldn't look as cool.


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cured13

What is your opinion on the new GKTech V2 40mm Roll Center Correction Kit for 240sx S13.
Are these better for mostly street driving than the previous aluminum version?
Is the faster steering I assume these provide worth extra weight of cast steel construction?

e30gangsta

as long as you have the space for the extra +25mm of track width increase id say go for it.

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Motary

These are actually forged!

The weight penalty over aluminium is 0,5kg per side, but it is offset by the cost as they are quite a lot cheaper to buy.

They are more durable than aluminium and have two steering options like you mentioned.

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GKTech

5280VertDET

Secondly, this do anything for street driven slammed cars?

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e30gangsta

Dude you need to read or google literally the first line of the description on them.

The V2 GKTECH roll center correction kit is now made from 1030 forged steel and provides 1.57'' (40mm) of roll center correction,1.57'' (40mm) of bump steer correction and also re-positions the steering arm to increase steering lock.

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DRIFTER-M

Rebuilding my s14 for the second time in the last 14 years. I am considering angle kits and am aware of the brands and the basics, though admittedly some of the nuances of this thread have left me a bit baffled.

I don't want wisefab. Just not my thing.

I am probably going to go for PBM or Villains. There are so many different parts and accessories these days for angle and suspension that wasn't always a thing in the past, so I am looking for some opinions. My s14 is primarily drift set-up of course. I still want it to be suitable for basic style - I don't want major poke (I don't like it aesthetically) and I don't really want to spend 2K + on angle mods. Simplicity is fine by me.

Between those 2 brands, what's a good recommendation basic set-up?

I know it's zilvia, no hand holding and all that - but I love you guys and have for long time, so I hope that counts for something. Ha.

Thanks in advance for any help! Great thread btw OP!

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dbeiler

I have the PBM Super Angle Knuckles and highly recommend them. I choose them over cut-n-weld knuckles for several reasons.

First, PBM has roll center correction. I haven't come across any cut-n-weld knuckles that offer it. Obtaining roll center correction with drop knuckles like PBM is the only "right" way to lower a car without negative side effects.

PBM is a brand new replacement knuckle. No need to sacrifice your original knuckles. Now you can keep your original knuckles on hand for a worst case track day/broken car scenario.

PBM knuckles are forged steel material. Hopefully will never break and have great resale value.

I had decent angle with only knuckles. Didn't even cut the steering angle limit bracket on the stock lower control arm. If the angle is insufficient, you can always buy curved tension rods, extended lower control arms, and rack spacers as necessary.

mr.nismo.

GK tech is another great option for what your looking for, and affordable.

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240dream

Opinion!! // where would you spend your money wisefab v2 , pbm limit break or gktech superlock. Seems like gktech really did some good r&d on there new knuckle/ lca setup and pbm always is top notch but for a ProAm level what would you choose ?!

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e30gangsta

I would go with gk tech. The level of adjustability is amazing.

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PoorMans180SX

Thanks. I'll just point out a few things that you might consider when making the decision on knuckles. The Villians kit is basic cut n' shut knuckles with no roll center correction. If you're even decently low this is going to give you sub-optimal performance, and while I know "donkei" style is all the rage these days, it's not actually any better than a low car with roll center correction.
Parts Shop Max knuckles are pretty decent, but they are definitely one of the heaviest options on the market. Geomaster V3's and GKtech V3 knuckles have the same benefits and are lighter, while physically lowering the car (true drop knuckles) for more shock travel vs a roll center correction knuckle like PSM.
You should probably decide if you want to make the switch to a lower-caster setup that is more optimized for drifting, or if you'd rather have lots of caster.
Honestly I think GKtech's bolt on adapter is by far the best bang for the buck, and has all the advantages of a roll center correction knuckle like PSM.

You can't go wrong with a knuckle that has roll center and bump steer correction honestly, it just depends which brand you want to support. I like the idea of products designed with math, FEA, and an engineer, so I bought Driftworks/Wisefab Geomaster V3's, strongly considering GKtech before deciding I want a dual purpose car and the Geomasters fit the bill better. PSM's policy of "redesign it till it works" doesn't really appeal to me personally.
If I was pursuing drifting from a strictly competition/career perspective, I'd buy wisefab v2, hands down. It's the lightest, has the most roll center correction, and is absolutely proven in all of the top competitions around the world. If I was concerned about style or didn't have the fab capabilities for the front crossmember mods the v2 requires, I'd choose Gktech v4. I'm not a huge fan of PSM for the reasons I listed above, though they do have a decent competition record.

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dbeiler

I've always thought the PSM knuckles were drop knuckles but I just went through my old photos and realized they aren't. They have zero drop. PSM offers drop only for the rear suspension.

So yeah, that makes the GKtech V2 almost identical to the original PSM knuckle . The only differences being a slight weight penalty and required track width increase for the GKtech. The two hole tie rod pickup design is pretty cool. Use the low ackerman pickup point for drifting and the regular pickup point for autocross or daily driving.

240dream

I’m comparing the price points on v2 which is 1900 and gktech is about 1100. I think the extra 800 should make it worth it. With both these kits would it worth adding a sway bar ? I’ve never ran a front bar

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240dream

.............

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yomisiu

came across these-

(fdf race shop)


seems like an interesting (maybe not) alternative to offset tie rod spacers/ relocating the rack.

thoughts?

da_crew10

I feel like those would put more stress on the rack compared to offset spacers.

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mr.nismo.

I have the FDF rods. They're really nice pieces. As far as stress, they're probably the same as other spacers. These have adjustment at least in case your setup changes. The owner was also super cool to chat with and get measurements figured out for my setup.

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Sarjh

Anybody ever gotten stock s13 rear knuckles modified? It would seem like a lot of work to do, but I am curious.