Macaronnie

So far I've been lucky and not had a cop on a bad day and they were nice. Last time I got pulled over it didn't go over so great. The cop talked to me for a sec and then went back to his car. he then came back with his k9 and sniffed around my car without asking. After that he came back and asked/forced me to get out of my car. As I was sitting beside the back of my car I started thinking of how if he acted like he found something how I could be in trouble and have no way of proving it. It was pretty much me overthinking things but id like to be ready for the worst and be able to record if such events went down. Its not me asking for something to happen. As a cop doesn't expect every citizen to be bad but they still record. Just trying to be safe. Any suggestions on a setup? I was thinking of maybe routing something to towards the back of the car to have better audio if such event would occur. I would like to hear opinions on places to mount cameras, camera/audio equipment, and maybe stories of how you came clean from a traffic stop.

Macaronnie

Meh, should have proofread it. haha

dudermagee

Just remember that camera can be used against you too.

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Corbic

Ok, lets get a few things straight. Almost every cop in American now has a dash cam. It is public record and it will be used in any case that goes to court. Trying to pull out a recording device or having one setup for the express purpose of recording police interactions is just looking for trouble. It's only going to antagonize them.

Second, he has every right and needs not your permission to bring a K9 out to smell your car. The officer has the right to "plain view", which is anything that he can see, smell or hear that may give him probable cause. If he see a pistol on your backseat, he won't need to ask you to search your car or get a warrant.

A K9 is a sworn Police Officer.

Let me warn you again as most people are to fucking stupid to understand this (not saying you are).

A K9 is a SWORN POLICE OFFICER who is in the employment of the City/State/County. His handler, the human Police Officer is not his owner, not his trainer, but his PARTNER.

So... if you hit, kick, swat, spit, yell, tease, offer a treat too or disrespect the K9... it is the exact same legal implication of doing it to a Human Officer. A local we know recently racked up some charges including fleeing from police and assaulting an officer... he got bit and tackled by a K9 and though it was a great idea to struggle and hit it. FUCKING GENIUS. A K9 stopping you with it's mouth (which will cause you to need stitches) is legally the same as a Human grabbing your arm and holding you down. Don't fucking punch at them.

Anyway.

So yes, a K9 is an officer, thus, using his Eyes, Ears and Nose he too has the right to "plain view". So if he smells drugs, explosives or bodies on you it's as if a normal human cop smells or sees them as well.

Asking you to step out of your vehicle is perfectly normal. It is for the officers safety. It ensures you won't try and feel and you won't access a hidden weapon. If you sat there waiting for a while, while he talked on his radio, it's time to run a police report on your self.

Those long pauses and waiting is his controller running your info and getting hits. The longer it takes the more hits they have on you. So as your name keeps coming up they keep looking to see if you have outstanding warrants, pass due child support, bail/probation issues, outstanding speeding tickets, expired tags, expired insurance, pending hearings, etc. By your own admission this sounds like it happens a lot. Each time you are stopped it is recorded, who what why where and when.

So the cop now goes "hmmm... this guy has been stopped 4 times for traffic violations and 3 times the cops thought he was high but couldn't prove anything... and here we are again..."




Also -

Dress like this guy, and never get fucked with again



Dress like this guy, and get fucked with all the time.

No 240.. No id

Soo true ^^^

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You can sleep in your car, but you can't drive your house.

Macaronnie

Seems like you're trying to assume that I'm some thug that does drugs and just yells "f**k the police." I'm far from that. I could even go as far as saying that I don't act like a child that just got his car and just looks for trouble.

I agree on the k9 officer comment. Although I could see a means of self defense if the dog would not get off you. Its just instinct to protect yourself. I would never do anything to reach the point that a dog would have to go after me.

The times that I have gotten stopped was either by several road blocks or I was going down a back road at an odd time at night. There is no reason for the officer to make me step out of my car when I know for a fact he didn't smell/see anything. Nor was I acting suspicious in any way. I would like to have a camera for my preference. Also, if I was doing something wrong then obviously it would be on his camera. Then again, his could suddenly disappear when he did or said something that wasn't right. Which would probably happen in Kentucky.

Don't get me wrong I see the cons as well. Just see more positive things coming out of it than negative.

ineedone

I love all the very correct legal information in this post

http://blogs.findlaw.com/blotter/201...rd-police.html

BTWs FOIA request for those police dash cams, when they are in your favor, are always answered in the timely manner you need them! (Said no one ever).

K9 sweeps are not per se constitutional or allowed. A trained K9s nose is a detection device. However, good luck getting an attorney to really fight for your theoretical 4th amendment rights when you get trumped up on a small drug charge because you had pot in the car (aka, yeah bro, sucks to be you, eat that charge, in no way is an overworked public defender feeling like you need to be saved).

Probable cause is all the officer needs to get you out of the car - and that means just about anything. Again, unless you got stacks to feed into defense attorney's pockets or you have a case that might get national attention (or a public defender who wants to run for office someday) - good luck winning a probable cause challenge.

One thing I think is funny (and kind of smart for those who like to play cat and mouse with the police) is asking lots of annoying questions that have legal implications. For example - Officer I will step outside the vehicle, officer am i being detained? Officer, may I leave or am I not allowed to leave? Officer, can you explain to me the reason you are asking me to step outside the vehicle? Officer, am I under arrest?

Seriously, if you are brave (dumb) enough to be having lots of interactions with the police - ask these questions and ask them over and over and over and over.

Frank_Jaeger

Today I learned that a dog can swear to uphold the Constitution and protect the rights of the people. Also I highly suspect Corbic of being a communist and traitor to the USA.

According to the SCOTUS, recording an officer is perfectly legal. Then again officers have a habit of ignoring common law. OP is smart to get a cam, but keep it inconspicous. A dash cam would work well and would serve other purposes as well.

Matej

Fraudulent traffic convictions dropped dramatically in countries where drivers started using cameras. They seem to be a good thing. Especially if you need to argue your position in court or to your insurance company. And as far as it being used against you, you can always just turn it off or delete any incriminating footage. Unless the law gets to it first, of course.

fyneyoungstunna

Ineedone!!!
High five. You beat me to saying it about k9 sweeps. Plus the dogs can be "triggered" by officers....

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ineedone

SCOTUS did not rule on any filming cases if I remember correctly (to be honest, I have failed to keep up with SCOTUS since leaving the Hill..). They did decline to hear cases where the government was challenging federal courts ruling against them. So there is still a split in the federal courts. Really, this means that it is up to whatever the state law is. Generally, if in public space while on duty - you can record (sometimes you need to provide some sort of notice that you are recording aka. Officer, I am informing you of a recording device in my car!).


Insurance claims are a lot different than criminal cases... please, do not have a recording device in your car and erase the bad shit you do after getting caught. That is BAD BAD BAD. Easiest way to win a case without having the winning argument is when the other side destroys potentially pertinent evidence.

"Triggered" and "Exigent Circumstances" - depending on who you represent, they mean the same thing!

Macaronnie

Good information! A lot has been answered for me. It Just seems like a bad idea to not have your own video camera when you try and play cat and mouse(its better to just bypass that whole situation) with a cop. Officer turns out to have a short temper, addresses authority in a unlawful manner. I sue, take him/her to court. The officers dash cam suddenly disappears when requested like said previously. Although, I usually complied and let them get over on me. Sounds to me like I just need to read more about my own rights.
Public property - okay to record.
Private property other than your own - negative.
Secretly recording - may or may not be legal, depending on state law.

Can they take my video camera in their possession if I tell them beforehand that I am recording the traffic stop? Not secretly recording in any way and its obvious the camera is used other than just recording when police pull me over?

Thanks for responding and actually giving me good information people. I see many posts that have a lot of hate and they still never get their answer. Seems a bit of a hindrance for someone to go out of their way to spam someone like that.

sidewaysil80

He didn't need your permission. Look up "reasonable expectation to privacy", specifically how it pertains to vehicles.

As well as the laws and what a private citizen has to comply with. Not saying you, but often times the public (especially the internet forum types) believe they are entitled to far more than they actually are. Case law sets the precedent and its surprising to see what actions are protected and what isn't. More so what exactly those rights mean and how they are interpreted.

Not true. This has to do with that "reasonable expectation to property" again. If your car is pulled over and facing my house, I can't tell you to stop recording even if I'm 100% against it. Now if your using a zoom feature to get in between a tiny crack in my curtains, that's a different story. It also depends on if you are recording a federal building or installation, then it gets hairy.

No, hell no...departments encourage and are o.k. with the recording of their officers, its the individual shitbag officers who are against. Just make sure you are not interfering with his duties (i.e. physically blocking his view with the camera), then its an issue. Matter of fact, if you POLITELY said "Hello Officer, based on a poor experience in the past I now video tape all of my interactions with police including this one." you will have zero issues....guarantee it.

NOW, that can change depending on certain Federal Law Enforcement Agencies, for example I know of several that can confiscate data cards; most times though they will accept you deleting the pictures in question in front of them. BTW, that pertains more to pictures/video of the installation or structure, not so much the individual officer.

sidewaysil80

An exterior sweep of a vehicle is 100% allowed (assuming its on public property). You don't own the air your surrounding your car or coming out of your car therefore you have no reasonable expectation to privacy of said air. If the k-9 picks up a scent in the air surrounding your car...congratulations...the officer went from reasonable suspicion to probable cause. This of course mainly applies if you are pulled over by a K-9 unit and the dog is already there. Its a different ball game in terms of calling for a K-9 unit on a traffic stop.

Corbic

Exactly. The stopping officer needs probable cause to call a K-9 unit and make you wait. As stated, this is when you start asking the "Am I under arrest, Am I being detained, Do I need a Lawyer?" questions.

Corbic

I actually did my undergrad in Law. I'm not offering legal advice here. I am offering real world on the street advice.

When my brother was 10'ish he was running across a parking lot and almost got hit. I told him to watch out for fucking cars. He responded like an ass with "it's a parking lot, I have the right away, it's their fault!". I then expressed "while they may get a ticket, you'll still be in the hospital".

Yes, there are a billion little ACLU legal tricks and rights you have. However do you really want to go through the hassle of getting arrested, going to court and pulling out some stupid recording go "AH HA!! I WAS RIGHT!!" and have, at best, the charges dismissed? You'll still have an uphill battle getting your arrest record cleared up. You'll still be out time and money, and unlike everyone's idiotic dream of suing for millions, you likely won't be able too and the cop won't lose his job.

Do you really want to be a brain damaged Rodney King so you can be a rich martyr?

Anyone's goal should be to limit police exposure and interaction. They can ruin your day and waste your time like no tomorrow. Sure, in the end you'll be "right", but you won't be rich, just angry and annoyed.

Corbic

A great example of this a while back was a video that made it's rounds. Cop pulls over suspected drunk. Notices front body damage, drunk fails sobriety test, gets arrested. Turns out drunk hit and killed a homeless guy earlier that night, gets charged with murder (or whatever). Defense argues the cop violated the drunks rights because at no point in the video did the drunks car act like it was drunk driving. The cop even had under his written statement and testimony that the drunk had crossed the double yellow. At no point did this happen in the video.

Guess what... nobody gave a shit. Nice try Defense.

Corbic

Another thing to be cautious of. Verbal Judo. A cop is going to be 100x more clever with the language they use they a kid reading some online threads and articles.

A good example "Sir, I am going to ask you to step out of the vehicle".

This is a request. Most people assume it's and order, but if you go to a judge and say "he had no right to make me get out", the cop will say "your honor, I simply asked him if he could step out and he willingly complied."

Now flip it over to "Sir, I am ordering you to step out of the vehicle", which a request or ask can quickly escalate too. Cops have millions of word games to trip people up.

theronin

How about don't drive like a douche, and be respectful to cops when they pull you over. If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear. Makes me curious what you are doing when you feel the need to have a recording device to "trap" a cop.

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chato de shamrock

EXACTLY! I own an 82 Olds with its metallic paint job, tinted windows and chrome wire wheels and a lowered 240. Perfect bait for having cops follow me for a couple of blocks, and they have at least a handful of times. I could care less, in fact I enjoy the brief escort. My record is spic n' span and I don't drive around with things, or car modifications that'll get me in deep water. OP, If you truly are an upstanding chap you have nothing to worry about. In fact all this worrying and over-thinking about protecting your hide (from nothing you're hiding) is possibly just going to get you in deep if you ever get pulled over. If you have nothing to hide and you know how to treat others with respect, then you shouldn't have any reason to think about tricking out your car for the purpose of maybe some day catch a cop slipping. Instead, ask where's the best place to mount a camera to protect your tail from the thousands of idiot drivers who share the road with you. It's much more likely you'll have to protect yourself from insurance companies then that 1 in 1000 rouge cop. Believe me, since being involved in my first traffic accident last summer I've been thinking more and more about dashboard cameras. Especially after having 1,2,3... too many close calls from morons that cut through lanes when traffic is far too near to do so and to top it off they purposely don't look in your direction but keep their sight fixated on the opposite side of traffic so as to give this "i didn't see cars coming" excuse if YOU can't stop from crashing into their door. Last time I was on the 134 fwy in Glendale when I had a car cut 2 lanes into my lane. He left me with less then 5 feet of space between his/her car and mine, then the jackass hits the brakes cause he/she tried cutting into one more lane, the exit only lane, which was completely stopped with traffic. He/she couldn't get in that lane and hit the brakes causing me to slam my brakes and pray they didn't fail on me. I couldn't swerve to the right or the left because i had stopped cars on my right and speeding cars on my left. Had I rear ended this dick I would have been at fault. This is what you should protect yourself against.

fyneyoungstunna

"If you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear"
...that might have been true in the 60's...for like a week.
But most of us minorities have a whole different take on that one right there.while I try to avoid playing the race card; in this particular area of life it usually plays itself. Especially when dealing with the police. I feel for you guys in the bigger cities, you have to walk on eggshells at most times. It's pretty chill here. But when I go back home ( WV and DC) It's a whole different story. I got stopped three different times in my little ford festiva in one day in WV. First time he said it looked like my tail light was out...In the day time. ..While he was going the opposite direction and I was in a turn lane. Second time...He said he heard me rev my engine at the light... ( FORD FESTIVA)...Third time and final time I let them mess with me before calling a powerful friend: drug check because of the Colorado plates a month before the legalization passed here. The sad part is these are cops that I knew when they were in middle school ( I'm older than most of them by at least 9-10 years) I'm from the same town as most of them. But it is a racist town beyond what any of you hopefully will ever have to experience. Straight pre civil rights type racist.
Dc/maryland ,well ,that's just a bottomless pit of corruption and other things ..

__________________
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STATEMENTS make me a Dumb-ass

ineedone

Ok, Ill play!

It is not about permission. He can ask and you can give it. But, a police officer can not (...errr should not) detain you without reasonable suspicion and subject your vehicle to a K9 sweep. However, things get tricky if the K9 is with the officer at the time of the stop and alerts to a smell "outside" the vehicle.

For those officers who are hip to the game - if they really think shit is up and do not want to deal with waiting for the K9, they impound the car for a bs reason (that has some legitimacy). Most PD impound have mandatory searches (which have been ruled constitutional if I remember correctly). Now, there are certain legal issues there - but if you so happen to find something sketchy during one of those searches it is easy to get a warrant to do a full search and/or arrest.

Two cases. Florida v. Jardines and Florida v. Harris.

All in all, your constitutional arguments about the K9 sweep of your car are pretty theoretical and not practical. If the officer is detaining you and making you wait without reasonable suspicion (a little less than probable cause which would give the officer the right to search the car or detain you while a K9 unit arrives - even more fun again!) you have a fairly strong argument to make - if you are willing to pay the attorney to do it.

There are certain state PD's that will confiscate everything and everything, even during routine traffic stops. I have seen cellphones and wallets taken, cars impounded, so on and so on, for routine traffic stops (... involving those of a certain minority). Rarely is there anything done about this and most people just decide to take the abuse rather than fight their local PD and risk retaliation .

Yessir!


Bro tip - Undergrad in "law" does not exist.

Corbic

Bro tip, go fucking look it up / read between the lines.

ineedone

Do you have an undergrad in medicine as well?

Get your panties un-bunched. No one has an undergrad in law. You can be a douche and say you did "pre-law" but that is about as useful as watching Nancy Grace to figure out how the Criminal Justice system works.

You do not have a undergraduate degree in law. You are not a Juris Doctor. You are not a lawyer.

Unless you went to school in Europe... in that case well poo poo on me!

Tip #2 (you have lost your Bro status with your bitchy attitude) - Do not do pre law if you are thinking of law school. History and something that has a major reading/writing component works. Or be a real G and go the accounting/engineer route so you can get a legit job right out of law school not being a doc monkey.

Corbic

No but I did stay at a holiday inn express last night.

ineedone

Bro status granted.

sidewaysil80

I wish I had a Juris Doctorate :-(

fyneyoungstunna

I didn't know about having your wallet and stuff taken. That is hella illegal search and seizure

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Can't Follow the Rules
STATEMENTS make me a Dumb-ass

sidewaysil80

Go on Spicolli, please give us more of your legal interpretations.

J3123MY

LOL. To protect himself.

Cops (most) are nothing but thugs with badges.