HyperTek

Wikileaks Video Demonstrates Conclusively That Innocent People Get Killed in Wars - wikileaks - Gawker

It upsets me how the pilots just wanted any reason to blast on these guys. i can understand the guys with the AKs could be a threat for the troops when they arrive to that location, but after wounding a guy which then a van comes to try to save him, they open fire on that van.

The guy peaking around the building was probably thinking "oh shit theres a military helicopter, this cant be good"

__________________
Keep it Classy

aznpoopy

next time think hard before calling in your 7 killstreak reward

Om1kron

if you're not in the military you probably shouldn't be discussing whats right and wrong when it comes to war.

__________________
Wayne

Om1kron

Does it also upset you when a terrorist feels the same way about killing innocent people, Americans and their own using guerrilla warfare tactics?
Did it upset you how they were looking for a reason to fly planes into the twin towers?

Shut the fuck up, stupid ass troll. You and everyone else who thinks "this is wrong"

and yeah the people in the van got shut up, 2 kids died. is that our fault the parents bad decisions put the kids in the middle of a warzone while a chopper is raining down death on terrorists?

It's also not their fault people were there taking pictures... nobody told them to get cool journalist photos during a war.

It's WAR.

people fucking die, boo hoo.

__________________
Wayne

shiftdrift

damn, that's strong words.

HalveBlue

I'd like to know what happened in the minutes, if not hours, days, or weeks, preceding this engagement.

I have a hard time believing that a pair of 64's was just cruising around beautiful Baghdad on a sunny, desert day, having nothing better to do than taking down innocent civilians.

Obviously these helicopters were providing aerial support to ground units which were encountering hostile fire while conducting military operations.

While it's easy to judge the actions of others after the fact, hindsight is 20/20.

As it turns out, out the group of people that were killed several were armed (the Army investigation of this incident mentions recovering 1 or more AK-47's and 1 or more RPG's, if I remember correctly). Also among the casualties were two Reuters' employees and two children.

Don't get me wrong, it's tragic that these people were caught up in this incident. But the unfortunate, cold hard reality of war is that collateral damage is never acceptable, but always unavoidable.

All that having been said, I do not think this video provides enough information or context to properly explain what happened.

Where these people in the wrong spot at the wrong time?

Was the van that pulled up after the first engagement, which contained two children, merely a group of good Samaritans concerned about the welfare of the injured, or another group of insurgents trying to recover weapons and "troops" while at the same time, scrupulously endangering the welfare of their offspring?

Life and death decisions have to be made within split seconds often with limited or inaccurate information. Had the two gunships not engaged this group of people, the end result may have been that several American Soldiers may have been killed or injured.

Monday morning quarterbacking is easy. Analyzing the complex realities of warfare at the moment of decision is not.

Unfortunately, America seems to be contend to send its men and women into war as long as it doesn't hit too close to home.

Make no mistake about it, war is grizzly, deadly, terrible thing, that should be avoided at all costs whenever possible. At the very least, this video shows exactly that.

If anything I would hope that this incident at least contributed to intelligent and honest discussion about the realities of war and the terrible consequences it can have.



"It is well that war is so terrible -- lest we should grow too fond of it."

-Robert E. Lee

ziptiedae86

all the armchair generals who have never been in a combat situation can criticize all they want after the fact.

this didn't happen at the beginning of the iraq conflict, so by 2007 any sensible civilian should know to stay indoors and not act suspicious when gunships circle overhead.

Shitty_S14

+1

msglength

Csomme

Your not over there, you don't have a right to say shit. Just a bunch of Liberal assholes trying to get everyone excited about bullshit. Fuck that. Fuck all the haters who sit on their ass all day just to write articles about why they think war is wrong and all that bullshit.

HyperTek

Please dude , I respect the military and all people in it, most of my family served at one point or another.

Dude was a freaking photographer, how freaking dangerous can he be? Of course they probably did not know that, but thats the thing, blast anyone who looks suspicious. Did you ladies even watch the video or just like to be cocky and jump on anyone who questions shit? One of the guys was already on the ground and the gunner or whoever was like hoping he would pick up a weapon so he could light him up.

blood hungry people with guns looking for an excuse to use em.. bad enough US has a bully image.

Not like they had to blast everyone on sight in order to keep their location secret, they where in a loud ass helicopter and firing..

__________________
Keep it Classy

Shitty_S14

its ok we put our lives on the line so you can write and speek freely... soooo


plz continue....

lewisfk

Hey man we tried to win the hearts and minds of the people, but that didn't work! The US made it loud a clear to the Iraq people if your caught with guns and RPG's u will be targeted, Plain and simple! Its sad that kids got hurt, but shit happens in war!

J3123MY

Damn, those pilots fucked up those people quick. Those people chilling outside had it coming though. I know I would stay indoors if some military helicopters were circling above my city.

I don't think that the helicopter pilots should be in any kind of trouble, cause they were just taking precautions. What if the people they killed would have killed a fellow American soldier a few days later if he didn't kill him? Better safe then sorry.

ziptiedae86

Photographers are routinely used as spotters or as cameramen for insurgent propaganda, so yes, a man with a camera CAN be dangerous and should be approached with caution. Besides, black cameras with long telescopic lenses and straps could be perceived as a weapon from a distance.

Perception is reality.

dahveed

Yeahhhh.
Oh, and you can see the rifles being held in some of their hands before they start shooting.

__________________
Wat

luftrofl

Could? They were a threat.

The idea of shooting is to kill. Of course the pilots are gonna shoot up the van.

I don't agree that the pilots wanted "any reason" to open fire, however, I would say that the authorization to fire came a bit quickly. (go watch some other videos on liveleak, sometimes those helis track enemy combatants for a LONG time)

__________________
Engrish is funny in Japan. In America, it's for stupid fanboys.

HyperTek

oh well this vid was in 07 and those people have been dead for years.. guess i shouldn't have brought it up, no one cares as long as they are not related to the deceased.. They where in the wrong place at the wrong time right?

Of course war isnt pretty.

__________________
Keep it Classy

driftingmustang

yes we do, I agree

kyoru

I don't know people are complaining about this. they spotted guys with aks, they talk with the guys with the cameras and hang out for a bit. unfortunately their guilty by association, it's not exactly easy to see what the other people are holding either. add in a billion other variables such being hot as hell, being sweaty, tired and all of that crap, it can make it very hard to make an accurate decision.

__________________

tsx1racer04

The pilots did the right thing. The new's reporters were very naive by accompanying the insurgents. Obviously, if you're going to hanging around insurgents and you hear a helicopter, don't you think you've got enough footage? And the children involved in the killing, c'mon, what kind of caring or loving parent bring their children to a war zone to fight alongside them!

Anyways, I applaud these pilots.

Oilcover

okay, listen up.




--------------

Beginning at 3:36 you can clearly see two men holding weapons. This guy at 3:43 has an AK-47. You can see it more clearly as he swings it but here's a screenshot that shows it.



This screenshot is at 3:35. This guy is definitely carrying a weapon. In motion it looks like it might be a rifle, but from the profile angle snapped below it looks like an RPG.



A few seconds later at 3:50 he puts the weapon down. The weapon is long enough that it's comes up well beyond his waist and it certainly has the width of an RPG. Or at least from this angle it looks that way.



The person than goes behind a building, out of view. A few seconds later someone is down on the ground behind the same building. At 4:06 he starts to pick up whatever he has laid down on the ground.



The one above is a bit fuzzy, but the next vidcap from 4:07 is a little clearer although the person in it has ducked behind the building. I'll remind you that a convoy was approaching the group of individuals and this would appear to the helicopter pilots like he was scoping out the oncoming US soldiers.

Remember, about 15 seconds ago the pilot saw a guy with what looks like an RPG. He ducks behind this building. Then a few seconds later he sees someone down on the ground with something that looks like it could be an RPG.



Which is exactly the conclusion the pilot makes.



Could that be the Reuters photojournalist with a long lense? Maybe. But from what the pilot is seeing the man seems like a threat. In war you eliminate threats.

The pilot then notifies others that he sees an individual about to fire an RPG and asks fire control for authority to eliminate the threat. Which he does.

__________________

MANWOLFS|HotLine|Falken|Exedy|DSTROYR|Factory 83|326power|

raz0rbladez909

I thought exactly what oilcover said, it's easy to make judgment when the

most combat you've ever seen has been in COD or a movie, you don't know

how you'd react if you were in the same position. This is whats wrong with

America today, so many people don't realize you can't have your cake and

eat it too when it comes to war, there will be innocent lives lost. You ever

seen any of the vids of our guys in an APC getting blasted by an IED, then

another APC coming to help those guys that got hit first, only to be blasted

by a second improvised device? Sure we see alot more of our "BAD TROOPS"

but thats only because our media will do anything to stir controversy. Why

do you think so many of our guys are hesitant to make calls when it comes

to taking out an objective, because they are worried about the liberal media

making them out to be bad guys. Like the SEALs that are on trial for

supposedly "Punching" a known terrorist, why does this guy deserve any

rights if he is a known terrorist? Some of you liberal fucks should take a look

at a book called "Lone Survivor" by Marcus Luttrell, its a very good read.

Some of you need to open your eyes instead of being sheep for the liberal

media.

__________________
2004 Corvette Z06 / 1971 240z

JohnnyDrfiter22

So I dont know if any of you have read the article or just got off what other people post....BUT according to officials ground troops were under heavy small arms fire from nearby combatants. Those helicoptors came in to support US coalition. Under the geneva code or military code of law, those helicoptor pilots did exactly what they were supposed to. They were called in, saw hostiles with weapons and opened fire. Those helicoptors are sitting ducks hoovering around the city buildings. RPG's and various other weapons are easy to shoot them down. Than what your family member, your neighbors family member just now got KIA. Some of you guys go over there and you tell me what kind of reactions you would have!!

sidewaysil80

it's bad enough we're over in these shit holes away from our families so YOU can sip lattes and do whatever else you do (which is not defending your country apparently) but then i have to read some pussy condemning our military for actions that they took that you could only daydream of having to take. if you don't like the way shit gets handled over there why dont you enlist?

ps i dont get involved in threads like this, but the fact your straight up condemning the shooting the fleeing terrorists is sickening.

maplejesse

i know i pretty much have no opinion on this, but


if you're in baghdad and holding a gun.

you're gonna get shot.
lol.

0wn3r

i lol'd. +1 for best post in this thread.

__________________
97 240sx se

JohnnyDrfiter22

Thanks Sidewaysil80! I wanted to go off on these ignorant fools too.

I do feel sorry for the families of the journalists, but as none of you know those journalists/photographers all volunteer to go there. they were in a hot spot for activity.

Oilcover

I have the DOD report in .pdf by the way - after a ground assessment:

__________________

MANWOLFS|HotLine|Falken|Exedy|DSTROYR|Factory 83|326power|

KA24DESOneThree

Wrong.

In the military, you live war. You are employed because of war. You commit war. That is what you do. Call it "peacekeeping" if you must keep your conscience intact, but it is war by another name. You train to fight.

We civilians aren't employed because of war (provided the civilians don't work in the so-called "defense" industry). We civilians don't commit war. We can see things from the outside, things you don't see because we don't see in the black and white of combat and "enemies" and "friendlies."

The US invaded this country, and our armed forces killed a great many of its civilians. Just because the other side does it too, or it's collateral damage and we killed some bad guys in the process doesn't make it right. We go in to usurp a leader and get "justice and freedom" for the populace and, in the mean time, get thousands of innocents killed. Where's the justice and freedom now? Lying face down in a grave; the victim of mistaken identity.

None of you goddamn soldiers right now are fighting for my freedom of speech. Saddam wasn't going to squash it, the Taliban wasn't going to squash it, so keep the bullshit down.

What the flying fuck are you fighting for? What the fuck are you doing to keep America free? Nothing. War is the health of the state.

What the fuck are you doing in some other country fighting their goddamn wars?

Call me a liberal, call me a motherfucker, call me a coward, hate me if it makes you feel better. Just don't say that you're fighting for me.

lewisfk

AGREE WITH U SOMEWHAT!!

The reason we invaded Iraq is because Pres. Bush new for a fact the odds of CATCHING bin laden was slim to none! The American people demanded blood for 911, so why not destroy Iraq! Bush thought we could get reed of Sadam and his kids and turn Iraq into or bitches! We could use Iraq as a launching point for future conflicts in the middle east,and get all the oil we needed! We also could influence the price of oil to other foreign countries, driving up the price and lowering when we felt like it! If u think I'M FULL OF IT, LOOK AT HALIBURTONS STOCKS AND PROFITS OVER THE PAST 12 YEARS AND LOOK AT ITS OWNER! THE IRAQ WAR IS OVER GREED! Americans stop and think about Bushes history, before he was governor of Texas! The man is an idiot, he ran every oil business he had into the ground and his daddy bailed him out with the help of HIS Saudi friends! As governor of Texas he made an express lane for the death penalty! As governor he put SEVERAL PEOPLE TO DEATH WHO WERE FOUND INNOCENT,ONCE BETTER FORENSIC EVIDENCE WAS MADE AVALIABLE! THE SAD THING IS HE KNEW IT!( RICK PERRY JUST DID THE SAME THING!!) This man has no compassion for the populous! He was a modern day ROBIN HOOD IN REVERSE!



The Afghan war is a must, because Clinton and Bush sat on their asses when they had a chance to kill Bin Laden! Laden is now in Pakistani and has a great chance of getting a nuke as we speak! Pakistan is in turmoil and can implode at any time! The years, the money, the time, and the lives wasted in Iraq will not be forgotten! Debates and arguments without violence is what this country is about! We must ask for fair and balanced truth!