This is the roll center, suspension pickup, and steering angle modification thread. - Page 55 - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

PoorMans180SX · 09-07-2010, 09:27 AM

You could always use a very large hammer.

DC Dan MAX USA · 09-07-2010, 05:36 PM

Regarding RUCA and subframe pinch weld clearance with SFR's - Just hammer it like so:

swiftmini · 09-07-2010, 11:39 PM

I like how much adjustment that RUCA has

my godspeed RUCA is wound right out on its limits!

singlecamslam · 09-07-2010, 11:46 PM

Question for people not running front sway bars, how does your car feel? I have a rb25 in my s13 wouldnt running no sway bars cause more understeer?

swiftmini · 09-09-2010, 11:54 PM

Tbh dude its all about your personal preference

What you need to do is try out your current setup and decide what its doing and if its actually doing anything you dont like.

A few peeps in the uk have fitted an rb25 and decided they have more understeer. They removed the front bar to gain more grip up front. The anti rollbar is a tuning device and you can get varied results from changing between s body and r body, stock and aftermarket bars.

If you have understeer you may want less front or more rear bar and vice versa. Obviously there is more too it than just bars

swiftmini · 09-14-2010, 12:13 AM

I just done a quick, rough plot of my front end and as far as i can tell, the front roll centre is still approx 40-50mm below ground level

Has anyone on here plotted theyre suspension to see where theyre roll centre is?

My thoughts are that playing with the inner lca mount points will make a much bigger change in rc height.

Ill try to get this up on cad and posted on here asap.

Its scary to think how far the rc moves when we start lowering these cars.

Kev

nieko · 09-14-2010, 04:04 AM

If you move the inner point of the LCA.

you need to move the tension rod point and the tie rod point.

otherwise shits gunna get ugly

swiftmini · 09-14-2010, 05:14 AM

Yep thats my plan. Move the lot up!!

Not until i know how much on cad though.

Iam going to make a front crossmember that i can move the rack about on for fine adjustments

95KA-Turbo · 09-14-2010, 07:02 AM

Out of curiosity, what do your control arms look like when the car is on the ground?

swiftmini · 09-14-2010, 09:40 AM

Not level lol

The arm is 350mm long from pickup to pickup (14inch)

And the inner pickup is 100mm above ground level (4inch)

And outer pickup is 150mm above GL (6inch)

Please take into account that all dimensions could be out by 1/4". Ill get it onto autocad tonight and then aim for more accuracy. Once RC is on autocad ill put in the rack and tierods and try and simulate the bumpsteer and the ackerman. It may take a while though because iam not fluent with autocad05

More a solidworks person, but i dont have a copy

I have had to change the tension rod rosejoint (where it attaches to the lower arm) because the lca was rotating every time i came on and off of the brakes. It was causing track width and length changes, it now has a bearing race (radial??? Instead of spherical)

Kev

swiftmini · 09-14-2010, 09:45 AM

I have input my dimensions into cad and ill get a jpg up on here asap.

So i need to take some more accurate dimensions for a better idea, but anyways the approximate roll centre height is 70mm, 2 3/4" below ground level.

if i were to have the inner and outer lca pickups at the same height from the ground at 150mm, 6" the roll centre height would be approx 60mm above ground level.

i will double check the autocad and post it up, i will also work on getting better measurements and post them up.

cheers
kev

95KA-Turbo · 09-14-2010, 09:32 PM

I did the roughest of rough measurements on the inner and outer pickup points and my outer point is ~1.6 (~41mm) inches higher then the inner (up in the air without the additional 10mm spacer on the outside).

I'll take better measurements when I finally get this bitch back on the ground. I figured I'd just post that up for shits and giggles.

swiftmini · 09-15-2010, 06:30 AM

Cool that sounds like its close to where iam at right now! Will be intersting to here the measurements once its back on its wheels.

I just had a quick play on my laptop on my lunch break and altered my drawing so that i could see how much i have raised the roll centre by.

I moved the bottom outer pivot up by 40mm which is the amount that i have altered my hubs.

I will double check my dimensions after work tonight. Right here goes, are you ready!! At my ride height with the setup identical apart from 40mm 'roll centre correction'.

40mm rcc = 70mm below ground
Stock hub = 180mm below ground

Who would have guessed it was that bad, i think that even if my measurements were half inch out all round it would still have given me similar results.

Kev

SoSideways · 09-15-2010, 07:33 AM

I don't think I'll have a chance to take my car off the jackstands until I get back from my trip, which will be the end of the month, so... No more updates from me until then.

VIPDRFT · 09-15-2010, 09:06 AM

Has anyone heard of switching tie rods side-to-side to get more steering angle on a TOYOTA or LEXUS?

GripTerror · 09-15-2010, 09:25 AM

^lmao think about that for a second... they are both the same length.

VIPDRFT · 09-15-2010, 09:45 AM

Go ahead and lyao, douche canoe. I have good reason for asking. This guy did it. Just wondering why.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oz Designs

Nothing too exciting apart from the knuckle mod that i have done.

so this is how i cut and welded the knuckles, then i switched the tie rods from side to side, and notched the upper control arm for extra clearance

PoorMans180SX · 09-15-2010, 10:03 AM

That's not an S-chassis.

All S- and Z-chassis have the same length tie rods.

SoSideways · 09-15-2010, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VIPDRFT

Go ahead and lyao, douche canoe. I have good reason for asking. This guy did it. Just wondering why.

Oh the irony of that reply made my day.

VIPDRFT · 09-15-2010, 11:03 AM

Toyotas have been mentioned in this thread before.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DC Dan MAX USA

From page 47

The earliest person that I know of who first applied this theory to professional drifting and aftermarket parts success is Daigo Saito & Hey Man products (D1GP Red 800PS Chaser) I'll see if I have time to scan the Drift tengoku feature that shows Daigo's parts, and there is two other companies featured following the same path in the article.

I believe Daigo, basically because it makes sense that the high power car needs all the front traction it can get at full lock because of the speed the car is capable of maintaining a drift. I dont think you want to be dragging a front tire along at 80mph+ drifting but its perfectly ok in a second gear drift. The high power car is only ever a second away from hitting full lock or initiating a drift session with a flick of the throttle. You can apply any suspension setting to any car but there is tradeoffs. Like on low power car you need a lot of grip ability through one section of the track to build enough speed to initiate and carry you through the drift turns so you would not want to be understeering low speed turns because of zero ackerman on a 200HP car while trying to build up for your big initiation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DC Dan MAX USA

Ackerman angle and power relationship from sept. 2008 DT page 26-27

Daigo Saito & Hey Man products (D1GP Red 800PS Chaser) offers several levels of angle and ackerman shown on the top of page two. Left part is OEM, second is a street drift, third is the 600HP car, and on the right is the 800HP D1 spec. Each one has a little less ackerman (never gets to zero) and a shorter steering arm for more angle and quicker steering.

Someone is going to ask why this chaser applicable to our cars. I would say its because both cars have the same setup where the steering rack is located behind the knuckle.

PoorMans180SX · 09-15-2010, 11:07 AM

Yeah, I was just saying, most people in here probably won't know because it is a Toyota.

Sounds weird to me, hahaha.

***S14DB*** · 09-15-2010, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VIPDRFT

Toyotas have been mentioned in this thread before.

Doesn't mean it is blatantly obvious what you are talking about or on topic.

Quote:

Tech Talk Technical Discussion About The Nissan 240SX and Nissan Z Cars

swiftmini · 09-15-2010, 01:37 PM

Iam guessing that maybe they have swapped the steering arms side for side. That would seriously alter the ackerman lol

VIPDRFT · 09-15-2010, 02:26 PM

I could've been more specific/clearer. Anyway, has anybody experienced this with a Toyota or Lexus? Thanks.

SoSideways · 09-15-2010, 03:00 PM

Look up the lengths and shit and use common sense after you get all the data from NAPA.com

NAPA has pretty good measurements on their tie rods and tie rod ends on their site.

DC Dan MAX USA · 09-20-2010, 09:09 PM

Here is an SC we did super angle mods on.....never noticed any difference in left and right side tie rods, and it has a plenty of angle and never comes close to the control arm.

From poweredbymax.net products forum > Ka-ko knuckle service for Supra, Soarer (sc300) 加工　ナックル　サービス

Our super angle kit does not work for the Toyota/Lexus knuckle setup so we are now offering a modification service on your OEM knuckle called Kako knuckle service (Kako is Japanese for modified)

~Price is $250 plus return shipping.
~Professionally welded with gussets for strength.
~Has some bumpsteer correction and reduction of ackerman.
~Same steering angle improvement as the super angle kit for Nissans.
~Standard color is orange, other colors are $10 extra.
*We recommend welding a custom bumpstop to the coilover lower mount but this is different for each vehicle because of wheel size, offset and desired angle so we will not be providing the stop.
*stock or aftermarket inner and outer tie-rod is ok (Yanack outer pictured)
This has been track tested with great success on Bigwave's white SC 300.

Slidin' Sam · 09-22-2010, 01:08 PM

Hey Dan, do you have a release date for your inner tie rods?...gotta replace one of my ikeya formula ones and the yen rate is garbage (i'm sure you know), so it would be cheaper for me to get yours shipped then to go to UpGarage and pick up some ikeya formula's, but if its gonna be a long time I will just go to UG. Thanks!

DC Dan MAX USA · 09-22-2010, 05:38 PM

its should be around a month from now.

Slidin' Sam · 09-23-2010, 03:15 AM

Cool thanks! Is there a way that I can pre-order them so they get shipped ASAP? I need them for November...

DC Dan MAX USA · 09-28-2010, 06:46 PM

I have made myself a note to contact you when they arrive.

09-07-2010, 09:27 AM	#1621
PoorMans180SX Zilvia.net Advertiser Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Michigan Age: 33 Posts: 5,430 Trader Rating: (16) Rides Gallery: PoorMans180SX Feedback Score: 16 reviews	You could always use a very large hammer. __________________ Build: http://zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?t=643065 Friends don't let friends buy knock-offs.

09-07-2010, 05:36 PM	#1622
DC Dan MAX USA Zilvia.net Advertiser Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: San Diego Posts: 2,478 Trader Rating: (79) Feedback Score: 79 reviews	Regarding RUCA and subframe pinch weld clearance with SFR's - Just hammer it like so: __________________ How To order: You can order directly from our zilvia advertiser threads. When you add to cart, you get an instant shipping estimate, & the cart will remember all of your items as you move between forum threads and our website www.poweredbymax.net until you remove them or check out. I can also calculate estimates manually for you but the cart's estimates are way faster and more accurate. Order Inquiry: IM me your real name and paypal address. Thanks for your business!

09-07-2010, 11:39 PM	#1623
swiftmini Zilvia Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: uk Age: 38 Posts: 227 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	I like how much adjustment that RUCA has my godspeed RUCA is wound right out on its limits! __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

09-07-2010, 11:46 PM	#1624
singlecamslam Post Whore! Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Norcal Posts: 2,531 Trader Rating: (10) Feedback Score: 10 reviews	Question for people not running front sway bars, how does your car feel? I have a rb25 in my s13 wouldnt running no sway bars cause more understeer? __________________ Nothing says racecar like a stock car with no interior.

09-09-2010, 11:54 PM	#1625
swiftmini Zilvia Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: uk Age: 38 Posts: 227 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Tbh dude its all about your personal preference What you need to do is try out your current setup and decide what its doing and if its actually doing anything you dont like. A few peeps in the uk have fitted an rb25 and decided they have more understeer. They removed the front bar to gain more grip up front. The anti rollbar is a tuning device and you can get varied results from changing between s body and r body, stock and aftermarket bars. If you have understeer you may want less front or more rear bar and vice versa. Obviously there is more too it than just bars __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Last edited by swiftmini; 09-13-2010 at 04:09 PM..

09-14-2010, 12:13 AM	#1626
swiftmini Zilvia Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: uk Age: 38 Posts: 227 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	I just done a quick, rough plot of my front end and as far as i can tell, the front roll centre is still approx 40-50mm below ground level Has anyone on here plotted theyre suspension to see where theyre roll centre is? My thoughts are that playing with the inner lca mount points will make a much bigger change in rc height. Ill try to get this up on cad and posted on here asap. Its scary to think how far the rc moves when we start lowering these cars. Kev __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

09-14-2010, 04:04 AM	#1627
nieko Post Whore! Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Westminster Age: 30 Posts: 2,694 Trader Rating: (14) Feedback Score: 14 reviews	If you move the inner point of the LCA. you need to move the tension rod point and the tie rod point. otherwise shits gunna get ugly __________________

09-14-2010, 05:14 AM	#1628
swiftmini Zilvia Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: uk Age: 38 Posts: 227 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Yep thats my plan. Move the lot up!! Not until i know how much on cad though. Iam going to make a front crossmember that i can move the rack about on for fine adjustments __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

09-14-2010, 07:02 AM	#1629
95KA-Turbo Post Whore! Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: LA Age: 36 Posts: 3,402 Trader Rating: (19) Feedback Score: 19 reviews	Out of curiosity, what do your control arms look like when the car is on the ground? __________________ Instagram - SJKnoop

09-14-2010, 09:40 AM	#1630
swiftmini Zilvia Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: uk Age: 38 Posts: 227 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Not level lol The arm is 350mm long from pickup to pickup (14inch) And the inner pickup is 100mm above ground level (4inch) And outer pickup is 150mm above GL (6inch) Please take into account that all dimensions could be out by 1/4". Ill get it onto autocad tonight and then aim for more accuracy. Once RC is on autocad ill put in the rack and tierods and try and simulate the bumpsteer and the ackerman. It may take a while though because iam not fluent with autocad05 More a solidworks person, but i dont have a copy I have had to change the tension rod rosejoint (where it attaches to the lower arm) because the lca was rotating every time i came on and off of the brakes. It was causing track width and length changes, it now has a bearing race (radial??? Instead of spherical) Kev __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

09-14-2010, 09:45 AM	#1631
swiftmini Zilvia Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: uk Age: 38 Posts: 227 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	I have input my dimensions into cad and ill get a jpg up on here asap. So i need to take some more accurate dimensions for a better idea, but anyways the approximate roll centre height is 70mm, 2 3/4" below ground level. if i were to have the inner and outer lca pickups at the same height from the ground at 150mm, 6" the roll centre height would be approx 60mm above ground level. i will double check the autocad and post it up, i will also work on getting better measurements and post them up. cheers kev __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Last edited by swiftmini; 09-14-2010 at 02:25 PM..

09-14-2010, 09:32 PM	#1632
95KA-Turbo Post Whore! Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: LA Age: 36 Posts: 3,402 Trader Rating: (19) Feedback Score: 19 reviews	I did the roughest of rough measurements on the inner and outer pickup points and my outer point is ~1.6 (~41mm) inches higher then the inner (up in the air without the additional 10mm spacer on the outside). I'll take better measurements when I finally get this bitch back on the ground. I figured I'd just post that up for shits and giggles. __________________ Instagram - SJKnoop

09-15-2010, 06:30 AM	#1633
swiftmini Zilvia Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: uk Age: 38 Posts: 227 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Cool that sounds like its close to where iam at right now! Will be intersting to here the measurements once its back on its wheels. I just had a quick play on my laptop on my lunch break and altered my drawing so that i could see how much i have raised the roll centre by. I moved the bottom outer pivot up by 40mm which is the amount that i have altered my hubs. I will double check my dimensions after work tonight. Right here goes, are you ready!! At my ride height with the setup identical apart from 40mm 'roll centre correction'. 40mm rcc = 70mm below ground Stock hub = 180mm below ground Who would have guessed it was that bad, i think that even if my measurements were half inch out all round it would still have given me similar results. Kev __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

09-15-2010, 07:33 AM	#1634
SoSideways Post Whore! Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: 你老母 Posts: 4,371 Trader Rating: (4) Feedback Score: 4 reviews	I don't think I'll have a chance to take my car off the jackstands until I get back from my trip, which will be the end of the month, so... No more updates from me until then. __________________ SoSideway's iTrader Rating!! *SoSideways' Review Thread!!* http://sosideways.wordpress.com/

09-15-2010, 09:06 AM	#1635
VIPDRFT Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Osan, South Korea Age: 35 Posts: 338 Trader Rating: (2) Feedback Score: 2 reviews	Has anyone heard of switching tie rods side-to-side to get more steering angle on a TOYOTA or LEXUS? __________________ Holding it and...WHEEL POPS OFF! O^O^O Last edited by VIPDRFT; 09-15-2010 at 01:53 PM.. Reason: updated question

09-15-2010, 09:25 AM	#1636
GripTerror Zilvia Addict Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Canada Age: 36 Posts: 685 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	^lmao think about that for a second... they are both the same length.

09-15-2010, 10:03 AM	#1638
PoorMans180SX Zilvia.net Advertiser Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Michigan Age: 33 Posts: 5,430 Trader Rating: (16) Rides Gallery: PoorMans180SX Feedback Score: 16 reviews	That's not an S-chassis. All S- and Z-chassis have the same length tie rods. __________________ Build: http://zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?t=643065 Friends don't let friends buy knock-offs.

09-15-2010, 11:07 AM	#1641
PoorMans180SX Zilvia.net Advertiser Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Michigan Age: 33 Posts: 5,430 Trader Rating: (16) Rides Gallery: PoorMans180SX Feedback Score: 16 reviews	Yeah, I was just saying, most people in here probably won't know because it is a Toyota. Sounds weird to me, hahaha. __________________ Build: http://zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?t=643065 Friends don't let friends buy knock-offs.

09-15-2010, 01:37 PM	#1643
swiftmini Zilvia Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: uk Age: 38 Posts: 227 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Iam guessing that maybe they have swapped the steering arms side for side. That would seriously alter the ackerman lol __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

09-15-2010, 02:26 PM	#1644
VIPDRFT Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Osan, South Korea Age: 35 Posts: 338 Trader Rating: (2) Feedback Score: 2 reviews	I could've been more specific/clearer. Anyway, has anybody experienced this with a Toyota or Lexus? Thanks. __________________ Holding it and...WHEEL POPS OFF! O^O^O

09-15-2010, 03:00 PM	#1645
SoSideways Post Whore! Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: 你老母 Posts: 4,371 Trader Rating: (4) Feedback Score: 4 reviews	Look up the lengths and shit and use common sense after you get all the data from NAPA.com NAPA has pretty good measurements on their tie rods and tie rod ends on their site. __________________ SoSideway's iTrader Rating!! *SoSideways' Review Thread!!* http://sosideways.wordpress.com/

09-20-2010, 09:09 PM	#1646
DC Dan MAX USA Zilvia.net Advertiser Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: San Diego Posts: 2,478 Trader Rating: (79) Feedback Score: 79 reviews	Here is an SC we did super angle mods on.....never noticed any difference in left and right side tie rods, and it has a plenty of angle and never comes close to the control arm. From poweredbymax.net products forum > Ka-ko knuckle service for Supra, Soarer (sc300) 加工　ナックル　サービス Our super angle kit does not work for the Toyota/Lexus knuckle setup so we are now offering a modification service on your OEM knuckle called Kako knuckle service (Kako is Japanese for modified) ~Price is $250 plus return shipping. ~Professionally welded with gussets for strength. ~Has some bumpsteer correction and reduction of ackerman. ~Same steering angle improvement as the super angle kit for Nissans. ~Standard color is orange, other colors are $10 extra. We recommend welding a custom bumpstop to the coilover lower mount but this is different for each vehicle because of wheel size, offset and desired angle so we will not be providing the stop. stock or aftermarket inner and outer tie-rod is ok (Yanack outer pictured) This has been track tested with great success on Bigwave's white SC 300. __________________ How To order: You can order directly from our zilvia advertiser threads. When you add to cart, you get an instant shipping estimate, & the cart will remember all of your items as you move between forum threads and our website www.poweredbymax.net until you remove them or check out. I can also calculate estimates manually for you but the cart's estimates are way faster and more accurate. Order Inquiry: IM me your real name and paypal address. Thanks for your business!

09-22-2010, 01:08 PM	#1647
Slidin' Sam Zilvia Addict Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Japan Posts: 729 Trader Rating: (9) Feedback Score: 9 reviews	Hey Dan, do you have a release date for your inner tie rods?...gotta replace one of my ikeya formula ones and the yen rate is garbage (i'm sure you know), so it would be cheaper for me to get yours shipped then to go to UpGarage and pick up some ikeya formula's, but if its gonna be a long time I will just go to UG. Thanks! __________________

09-22-2010, 05:38 PM	#1648
DC Dan MAX USA Zilvia.net Advertiser Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: San Diego Posts: 2,478 Trader Rating: (79) Feedback Score: 79 reviews	its should be around a month from now. __________________ How To order: You can order directly from our zilvia advertiser threads. When you add to cart, you get an instant shipping estimate, & the cart will remember all of your items as you move between forum threads and our website www.poweredbymax.net until you remove them or check out. I can also calculate estimates manually for you but the cart's estimates are way faster and more accurate. Order Inquiry: IM me your real name and paypal address. Thanks for your business!

09-23-2010, 03:15 AM	#1649
Slidin' Sam Zilvia Addict Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Japan Posts: 729 Trader Rating: (9) Feedback Score: 9 reviews	Cool thanks! Is there a way that I can pre-order them so they get shipped ASAP? I need them for November... __________________

09-28-2010, 06:46 PM	#1650
DC Dan MAX USA Zilvia.net Advertiser Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: San Diego Posts: 2,478 Trader Rating: (79) Feedback Score: 79 reviews	I have made myself a note to contact you when they arrive. __________________ How To order: You can order directly from our zilvia advertiser threads. When you add to cart, you get an instant shipping estimate, & the cart will remember all of your items as you move between forum threads and our website www.poweredbymax.net until you remove them or check out. I can also calculate estimates manually for you but the cart's estimates are way faster and more accurate. Order Inquiry: IM me your real name and paypal address. Thanks for your business!

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