Smashkateer

READERS WANTED!

EDIT: more on the fence about an SR20DET car now than the CA18DET



I don't know why but for the past year or so I've grown somewhat tired of my 350Z. I'm at a crossroads with it where I've put too much money in too many places and not finished any routes with the car. I originally wanted a show car quality build that was fast enough for spirited drives and occasionally taken to the track. But what I've ended up with is a rock chipped front, mild damage on the bumpers from dealer dick up that needs more performance but I can't go back to stock body without painting (something that could be done to current kit if I was going to spend the money)


Details: I have a Base pPW 08 350Z with 64k, mild suspension mods, exhaust, and visual upgrades. I love the car, but it's missing that "exclusivity" I want that maybe a "fresh" car would offer.*

Cons:
-Body kit needs refitted and repainted (which i could get done, but I'd be wishing it was a Nismo (exclusivity and looks)
-Want to upgrade brakes but again wouldn't be a Nismo
-other random things such as no cruise (not huge)

Pros (short list)
-I'm the 2nd owner, i knowwhere the car has been for the past 6 years
- love the VQ note
-paid off, stand to make money if isell and get the 180*


Now the other option:
RHD 1989 180SX with very low miles with the (should be original) CA18DETnot an SR swap.*

Cons:
-Old car will require more attention to upkeep everything*
-Won't be as fast out of the box as the Z*
-don't know as much as i do about the CA18DET as the VQ (which is not much anyway)

Pros:
-Exclusivity with RHD*(new challenge)
-Good base to start tinkering with forced induction
-Paint appears to be well sorted and the body looks straight and panels line up better than the Zs


Both cars would be weekend cruisers but I hope to have a couple track days (road courses)
I know this is a 240 forum but a lot of people on here have or have had Z and I'm wondering if I will be miserable with the lack of power compared to the Z? How stable of a platform is the CA18DET (I've read nothing but good things about the SRs and Nissan makes pretty reliable engines....


I would love to have a fresh start and change the way I build this 180 (keeping all stock parts for originality)

Thoughts?
Cares?
Concerns?

If you're going to bash me as a newb, go ahead. It'll get my thread more views!

(If this is in the wrong section please move)

STR8 H8N

omg no

5280VertDET

I dunno man, I would keep the Z. These things are a can of worms once you really get into them. Plus the fanboi's think they have gold with any S13.

Are you talking about importing an actual 180SX or a US 240SX?

Have you looked into RWD JDM cars, GTS-T, Laurels, or any other fun RWD cars that are eligible?

__________________
S13 Vert | SR | PE1420 | 5-Speed | 15x9.5 - 0 |

Smashkateer

Its an import. 1989 with the original CA18DET numbers SHOULD match and it only has 31k miles.


I have a buddy driving to check it out tomorrow for me too.

Croustibat

I have a euro 200sx, which is the US 240sx rs13 with a CA18DET in it. It is heavily tuned, i know it inside and out.

And if you don't want to spend your week ends wrenching and spending money, you should keep the Z. With your current car, you just have to put the key in, start, and drive. This is not going to happen in a 180sx. These old car require constant checking and wrenching, so unless you are willing to learn everything about it, you are going to spend your time at a garage.

Btw a 180SX with 31K miles does not exist.

I know the CA18DET inside and out, that is the only engine we get in S13 in France. Good engine, better than the sr20 on some aspects like the valve train. Does not have variable valve system nor rockers, just direct hydraulic lifters.
Stock, it pulls like a train (remember, it has a turbo). It makes boost as soon as you get past idle, so these 180hp feel like a lot more. It is also way lighter than the Z.
It can make gobs of power but then it becomes a bit peaky, mine is around 300hp (stock internals, 160k+ miles, SR20 maf and turbo, big injectors, FMIC, exhaust, e85, approx 15-20 psi), my tuner is in the 600+ hp. These engines are quite reliable, as long as you take care of them. You just have to be paranoid with oil level (btw, the dipstick has issues; to check level, you need to put the dipstick back in but not all the way, just the cable part, and get it out again; if it has oil on it, wipe and restart. Once it is clean, you can put it in fully and then only can you read oil level)

Problem is nearly no one does, esp crooks that tell it has 31k miles. But is does not matter, if it really has 31k miles it needs at least getting checked and refreshed by someone who knows them. I bet it has at least 100.000 more anyway.

A 180/240 is a cheap car. The interior is cheap, the car is cheap. The Z too, it was engineered to be cheap. But it is like 15years younger cheap, and that is already way better. It is somewhat foolproof. You can hardly go wrong with a Z.
People who bought S13s never cared much about oil changes. These were cheap GTs. They were then bought for cheap by young guys with no money, who didn't care, and this gave the engine quite a bad rep.
It does not have a lot of oil, when not changed enough it is going to degrade and coat breathers everywhere until they get blocked. Also, it is going to lubricate things quite badly, usually leading to turbo dying, then rod/crank bearings failing. There has been some trouble with valves too, that get eaten with time on some series. Except that, these engines tougher than SRs. Go mechanical lifters and you can go 9000rpm. Go forged internal with e85 and enjoy 40+ psi of boost. The engine itself is not going to die, the limit is the gearbox, it won't like anything above 350ish HP with sticky tyres (just like the sr, that is the same box). A 300HP s13 is bloody quick already. a 600HP is just stupid, it gets on boost at like 4000rpm, but man does it feel like you suddenly started some warp engine and gives you quite a grin

But seriously, RHD is a pain to drive, the 180sx chassis in terms of handling is miles behind the Z so there is a lot of work (and money to spend) to get just even. It does not handle stock, if you want one that has relevant/predictable grip, you are looking at least at a 3k$ bill, but most likely it will go up to 4-5K$ bill in parts. With second hand wheels. It is also limited to 180km/h stock.

It is no way exclusive, every kid has a 240, it looks exactly the same. Except it has 180 instead of 240 written here and there. Want exclusive ? I can send you parts with "200" written, these are the european ones

Seriously though, keep the Z. Or get ready to spend huge money and time on the S. You want around 7K$ for handling and chassis work (includes seats, roll cage, wheels, brakes... labor excluded), 5-6K for transmission (350Z gearbox, torsen LSD, labor and machining included), 10K for engine ( rebuilt engine with forged items and the turbo you want for anything in the 350-500hp range) .

If you keep on the 300ish HP side, you don't need a gearbox (S15 spec R torsen though ... that is around 300$ in parts, you REALLY need one), nor forged internals, but it requires a GWO engine. and i don't think this one is, because i don't believe its mileage.

Smashkateer

Awessome post croustibat! I love and hate to read this but you make some great points!

I've already written this one off since the importer has a 91 with an SR in it coming in this month.

Let me ask though, what makes you say it coudlnt hav that low of miles? Odometer fraud?

One more thing about dumpinng money into it to make it even with the Z......I have lets say 15k worth of different wheels, bumpers, paint, etc parts in the Z and its still not what I want it to look/drive like. So i have at least anotther 10k to be where i wantt with upgrading to brembos, refitting/respraynig the bumpers or whole car plus iit has a VLSD in it that i put in as a band aid for cheap years ago. I want a legit diff, and 4.08 gears to make it what I want......

So basically I would rather get a stock car, and do all these things right (or more right) the first time which is what the 180/240 could offer. If someething breaks (which it will) upgrade time.

Reliabilitty is the MAIN hold for me. The Z is always there anndwill fire up and provide funwithin minutes. I don't know if im in a place to stress about my "fun" time.....

Thanks for the post! Sorry foor the gramar errors, im using my tablets mini keyboard to post

Croustibat

Most cars exported from japan are said to be driven for like 1000 miles a year.

Do you really believe someone would drive a cheap GT for 1000 miles a year, and then sell it overseas for cheap ? If you had such a car, you would not sell it for cheap, and you surely would just have to say you are considering selling it to get offers on the table. If you don't know anything about them, a simple ad and it goes away.

Same goes for engines, last time we got a "low mileage GWO" RB30 from there, cylinders were half filled with coolant and oil.


Don't get me wrong, a correctly modded 180sx is a ton of fun do drive, way ahead of a Z... but that is when it is correctly modded, and not broken. Mods are mandatory, that OEM chassis is crap, like dangerously crap.

You got a third option though. Get some forgies and a turbo for that Z

tuzzio

Keep the z. A much better platform for sure. CA's statside are garbage in comparison to an sr or ka because lack of support.

Smashkateer

Valid points. I've been kicking around some of the swapped cars on here too but the numbers matching gets me.

I just want to start over on the Z. But there are NO oem bumpers to be found in Kansas City (or anywhere I've seen) and in the money I spend on paint I could sell and pay a bit extra for a Nismo. But then I run into the why not go for a 370 or an Evo or the likes. (Upgrading)

What do you all think of just going for a swapped modded car from here?
( there's a blue RB swap on here) that love but idk if I want to adopt someone else's project/problems.

rawgarage

Keep that Z....can beat on the VQ and still be good to go

rawgarage

I have OEM bumpers or Z parts btw!

Smashkateer

What if it were a factory SR20DET? Same feeling?