This is the roll center, suspension pickup, and steering angle modification thread. - Page 75 - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

SoSideways · 12-15-2010, 08:06 AM

Running no rear bar helps the rear wheels move a bit more independently, thus able to find grip better on their own.

But like many have said, it really depends on their driving style, and what they car is setup to do.

I currently don't have my front sway bar connected, but wish I did. The rear sway bar is connected (S13 HICAS bar) but I'm using stock endlinks. I need to find some other end links because they are oriented in a sort of weird way, since the rear LCAs are I think meant for an S14.

DC Dan MAX USA · 12-22-2010, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PoorMans180SX

What he's saying is his caster is really high, but he's still hitting the firewall.

You are right in the fact that he needs caster plates, but he needs them to reduce caster after he pulls his LCA forward to keep from hitting the firewall.

Slot your lower brackets on your coilovers. This is the only way to get more leading tire on the ground besides running less caster. The first choice would be running less caster. Use your tension rod to pull your tire farther from the firewall and use caster plates to decrease your caster. It might even out. You can always slot the strut tower (I know, lots of people are against this).

TearlessJ - You did beat in the metal behind the wheel against the firewall right?

Im glad you guys are thinking in an intelligent way about dealing with caster adjustment pros and cons.
We have been in development and testing for a whole year on this.
We are about to release our new pro coilovers with caster adjustable top plates (among many other cool features) next month. I've been keeping a lid on the design but since you guys had it on your mind lately, I'll let you know its damn close to release.

you can leave the lower mounts alone if you use a wider lower control arm to get more camber.

NYS13SLIDER · 12-22-2010, 09:29 PM

I have a quick question that i guess is not so off topic. On my '90 S13 hatch im running all adjustable arms front and rear,also better inner and outer tie rods, Except no adjustable lower control arms(i did reinforce my stock front and rear lower control arms and using polyurethane bushings in my lowers and on my stock front knuckles) In the rear im also using Z32 rear knuckles on their stock bushings. Im using Fortune Auto coilovers with the optional swift springs. My subframe in the rear is also slightly raised using SPL aluminum subframe busshings and spacers. I dont know why but i havent purchased performance swaybars yet. Im using 17" wheels.Very basic compared to the setups you guys are running. Im just getting into the drift thing,finally,and im just trying to get on the right track with suspension(as a beginner). How low can i go safely without any binding in my suspension and without damaging anything? Its going to be street driven and hopefully i am going to enter some amateur practice sessions. Also what would you change on the car in my situation? This thread is the bomb by the way...Thanks in advance guys.

SoSideways · 12-23-2010, 07:36 AM

It's all driver preference man. What I like about my suspension, you may come along and go "this is complete crap" and walk away in disgust.

Ride height, especially, is definitely a driver preference thing. You may like how the car drives at a slightly higher ride height (what most Zilvians call a 4x4 ride height), or you may like how it feels better slammed.

Once you get the car to the ride height you want, then you can check for binding. Usually this is pretty obvious.

When you have your ride height set, just put the car on jack stands and take the coilovers out on the rear, then jack each wheel up till they can't go no more, and then check to see if your suspension arms and wheels are clearing everything. If so, good to go, move to the front.

In the front, take the springs off of the coilovers and bolt it back on, then jack the wheel up via the lower control arm, and see if you're hitting anything at either lock.

That's about as simple as I can make it.

articdragon192 · 12-25-2010, 02:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoSideways

Running no rear bar helps the rear wheels move a bit more independently, thus able to find grip better on their own.

But like many have said, it really depends on their driving style, and what they car is setup to do.

I currently don't have my front sway bar connected, but wish I did. The rear sway bar is connected (S13 HICAS bar) but I'm using stock endlinks. I need to find some other end links because they are oriented in a sort of weird way, since the rear LCAs are I think meant for an S14.

Powertrix has some pretty nice solid endlinks. I'm currently running them on my car.

GripTerror · 12-25-2010, 09:18 PM

dan all im caring or giving a damn about at the moment is those LCAs and drop spindles front and rear and if you could make the rears z32 style and of course all spherical heh

Z33dori · 12-30-2010, 10:36 AM

powers did alot of changes this season that paid off well for him...... these shots gives a nice look at his control arms

full lock diff

hitman · 12-30-2010, 10:40 AM

my control arms are stock. i feel like my setup still sucks. its gonna kick some serious ass next year though. the rear is getting better though but i have sick ideas on that for next season as well

singlecamslam · 12-30-2010, 11:56 AM

looks like powers raised his car up. Looks like that payed off.

s14freak93901 · 12-30-2010, 12:29 PM

yup, he raised it. being slammed doesn't make it a competitive car. looks like hes not going to run his KA-T setup for 2011 neither.

Dan- i heard new coils will run swift springs and you guys are releasing coils for the Z33 also?

TUnity2 · 12-30-2010, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by articdragon192

Powertrix has some pretty nice solid endlinks. I'm currently running them on my car.

They don't show any for an s13, I wonder if z32 end links would work.

thefro526 · 12-30-2010, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TUnity2

They don't show any for an s13, I wonder if z32 end links would work.

Pretty sure the rears would work, just judging by that picture and knowing how the S13 Sway bar attaches to a the LCA.

s14freak93901 · 12-30-2010, 01:04 PM

i think powertrix only makes after market for Z's.

*slider2828* · 12-30-2010, 01:57 PM

The rear end links are bla... what we need are front endlinks. Doesn't Kuah make some endlinks exactly like that?

PoorMans180SX · 12-30-2010, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hitman

my control arms are stock. i feel like my setup still sucks. its gonna kick some serious ass next year though. the rear is getting better though but i have sick ideas on that for next season as well

You need roll center correction in the front my friend. Get Dan or Martin to drop your ball joint mount on the knuckle as far as he can (I think he said he can do 4cm).

I would also imagine your steering is a bit weird from your tie rod ends being like an inch below your ball joints. The knuckle mod would fix both of your problems.

hitman · 12-30-2010, 02:24 PM

im still deciding what im going to do for knuckles next year. I think im going to run adjustable tie rod ends and lower control arms for bump steer and roll center instead of having it all done on the knuckle. still considering my options though.

NiSilS14 · 12-30-2010, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slider2828

The rear end links are bla... what we need are front endlinks. Doesn't Kuah make some endlinks exactly like that?

Whiteline makes some with spherical rod ends. I'm not sure if it's for their sway bars, I think they'll fit stock sway bars though. Part number is KLC007

DC Dan MAX USA · 12-30-2010, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GripTerror

dan all im caring or giving a damn about at the moment is those LCAs and drop spindles front and rear and if you could make the rears z32 style and of course all spherical heh

Our version of the drop spindle for the front is ready to go now.

The LCA 's are next, maybe released in march. They will certainly be different (better) than prototypes I have shown here. Right now we are making new forging dies for a new type of rod end and rod end receiver specially designed specifically for LCA duty.

The rear knuckle is the final frontier, it certainly will be full spherical.

Quote:

Originally Posted by s14freak93901

yup, he raised it. being slammed doesn't make it a competitive car. looks like hes not going to run his KA-T setup for 2011 neither.

Dan- i heard new coils will run swift springs and you guys are releasing coils for the Z33 also?

correct
All of the new pro series coilovers will come with swift springs. Z33 will only be available only in the pro version and will be released mid february along with S13, S14 and Genesis applications.

Z33 coilovers will be coil-over-damper instead of separate coil and spring in the rear.

We are also currently in development of a complete multilink solution for the Z which will have
~straight tubular rear lower control arms (instead of the OEM spring boat)
~rear traction rod
~rear toe rod

Front end of the Z33 will be
~single pivot camber adjustable FLCA with spherical shock mount and caster adjustable compression rod combo
~bolt on super angle knuckle adapter
~tie rod, tie rod end, and rack position spacer
All of the front end items will need to be purchased together since they are all designed around each other as a complete conversion front end, but the result is up to 60 degrees of angle and a super flat tire patch at full lock.

nismobenzo · 12-30-2010, 07:34 PM

"PBM...no fucking joke"
-anonymous

NiSilS14 · 12-31-2010, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DC Dan MAX USA

The rear knuckle is the final frontier, it certainly will be full spherical.

Will there be an option for dual rear caliper mounting?

thefro526 · 12-31-2010, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DC Dan MAX USA

All of the front end items will need to be purchased together since they are all designed around each other as a complete conversion front end, but the result is up to 60 degrees of angle and a super flat tire patch at full lock.

Wow.

That sounds amazing.

Tearlessj · 12-31-2010, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DC Dan MAX USA

TearlessJ - You did beat in the metal behind the wheel against the firewall right?

Sorry just saw this, Yea I did smash it up a good bit. Whats a recommended amount of caster with your knuckles?

Here are some pictures I just took, does the tension rod looks like its installed incorrectly? Now looking at it, it does look off to me. Wish my alignment guy would have mentioned it to me.

Heres the tire/firewall clearance at 90% lock. I can barely squeeze my finger in there. Right now its at 9.2, if I lower the caster, wouldnt it be even closer?

Csomme · 12-31-2010, 03:24 PM

Your caster is at 9.2!?!?!

singlecamslam · 12-31-2010, 05:00 PM

Your car is just too damn low. And 9.2 caster is quite high, Make the tension rods stock length

Hashiriya415 · 12-31-2010, 05:43 PM

Not sure what size tire you have, but check your wheel setback on the alignment machine.

mikerbike · 12-31-2010, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tearlessj

Looks like that locking nut on the rear is supposed to be butted up against the aluminum part that mounts to the LCA, not tightened at the end of it's threads in the front.

Def · 12-31-2010, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by singlecamslam

looks like powers raised his car up. Looks like that payed off.

And raised his roll center, and started to run a front sway bar to increase front roll stiffness to a reasonable level... and stopped listening to bad suspension setup advice on Zilvia...

Amazing what a little proper setup can do to a car.

singlecamslam · 12-31-2010, 07:17 PM

the quick answer to roll center correction? Just dont lower your car so much, and it will actually handle. But seriously though i have my control set to where they are parallel to flat ground, thinking about raising it up just a hair. Not sure where it is optimal

Def · 12-31-2010, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by singlecamslam

the quick answer to roll center correction? Just dont lower your car so much, and it will actually handle. But seriously though i have my control set to where they are parallel to flat ground, thinking about raising it up just a hair. Not sure where it is optimal

It's "optimal" much higher than with the arms parallel with the ground. Realistically it's a trade off between roll center and CG height, but stock FLCAs don't give you much room before things turn bad.

singlecamslam · 12-31-2010, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikerbike

Looks like that locking nut on the rear is supposed to be butted up against the aluminum part that mounts to the LCA, not tightened at the end of it's threads in the front.

good eye i didnt even notice.

12-15-2010, 08:06 AM	#2221
SoSideways Post Whore! Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: 你老母 Posts: 4,371 Trader Rating: (4) Feedback Score: 4 reviews	Running no rear bar helps the rear wheels move a bit more independently, thus able to find grip better on their own. But like many have said, it really depends on their driving style, and what they car is setup to do. I currently don't have my front sway bar connected, but wish I did. The rear sway bar is connected (S13 HICAS bar) but I'm using stock endlinks. I need to find some other end links because they are oriented in a sort of weird way, since the rear LCAs are I think meant for an S14. __________________ SoSideway's iTrader Rating!! *SoSideways' Review Thread!!* http://sosideways.wordpress.com/

12-23-2010, 07:36 AM	#2224
SoSideways Post Whore! Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: 你老母 Posts: 4,371 Trader Rating: (4) Feedback Score: 4 reviews	It's all driver preference man. What I like about my suspension, you may come along and go "this is complete crap" and walk away in disgust. Ride height, especially, is definitely a driver preference thing. You may like how the car drives at a slightly higher ride height (what most Zilvians call a 4x4 ride height), or you may like how it feels better slammed. Once you get the car to the ride height you want, then you can check for binding. Usually this is pretty obvious. When you have your ride height set, just put the car on jack stands and take the coilovers out on the rear, then jack each wheel up till they can't go no more, and then check to see if your suspension arms and wheels are clearing everything. If so, good to go, move to the front. In the front, take the springs off of the coilovers and bolt it back on, then jack the wheel up via the lower control arm, and see if you're hitting anything at either lock. That's about as simple as I can make it. __________________ SoSideway's iTrader Rating!! *SoSideways' Review Thread!!* http://sosideways.wordpress.com/

12-30-2010, 10:36 AM	#2227
Z33dori Post Whore! Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Riverview, FL Age: 32 Posts: 5,557 Trader Rating: (12) Feedback Score: 12 reviews	powers did alot of changes this season that paid off well for him...... these shots gives a nice look at his control arms full lock diff __________________

12-30-2010, 10:40 AM	#2228
hitman Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: late 19th century prussia Age: 34 Posts: 1,057 Trader Rating: (3) Feedback Score: 3 reviews	my control arms are stock. i feel like my setup still sucks. its gonna kick some serious ass next year though. the rear is getting better though but i have sick ideas on that for next season as well __________________ driftparty.com

12-30-2010, 11:56 AM	#2229
singlecamslam Post Whore! Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Norcal Posts: 2,531 Trader Rating: (10) Feedback Score: 10 reviews	looks like powers raised his car up. Looks like that payed off. __________________ Nothing says racecar like a stock car with no interior.

12-22-2010, 09:29 PM	#2223
NYS13SLIDER Zilvia Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: New York Age: 43 Posts: 221 Trader Rating: (2) Feedback Score: 2 reviews	I have a quick question that i guess is not so off topic. On my '90 S13 hatch im running all adjustable arms front and rear,also better inner and outer tie rods, Except no adjustable lower control arms(i did reinforce my stock front and rear lower control arms and using polyurethane bushings in my lowers and on my stock front knuckles) In the rear im also using Z32 rear knuckles on their stock bushings. Im using Fortune Auto coilovers with the optional swift springs. My subframe in the rear is also slightly raised using SPL aluminum subframe busshings and spacers. I dont know why but i havent purchased performance swaybars yet. Im using 17" wheels.Very basic compared to the setups you guys are running. Im just getting into the drift thing,finally,and im just trying to get on the right track with suspension(as a beginner). How low can i go safely without any binding in my suspension and without damaging anything? Its going to be street driven and hopefully i am going to enter some amateur practice sessions. Also what would you change on the car in my situation? This thread is the bomb by the way...Thanks in advance guys.

12-25-2010, 09:18 PM	#2226
GripTerror Zilvia Addict Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Canada Age: 36 Posts: 685 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	dan all im caring or giving a damn about at the moment is those LCAs and drop spindles front and rear and if you could make the rears z32 style and of course all spherical heh

12-30-2010, 12:29 PM	#2230
s14freak93901 Zilvia Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: salinas,ca-fort bragg,nc Age: 32 Posts: 203 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	yup, he raised it. being slammed doesn't make it a competitive car. looks like hes not going to run his KA-T setup for 2011 neither. Dan- i heard new coils will run swift springs and you guys are releasing coils for the Z33 also?

12-30-2010, 01:04 PM	#2233
s14freak93901 Zilvia Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: salinas,ca-fort bragg,nc Age: 32 Posts: 203 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	i think powertrix only makes after market for Z's.

12-30-2010, 01:57 PM	#2234
slider2828 Premium Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 5,824 Trader Rating: (13) Feedback Score: 13 reviews	The rear end links are bla... what we need are front endlinks. Doesn't Kuah make some endlinks exactly like that? __________________ Turn and Burn!

12-30-2010, 02:24 PM	#2236
hitman Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: late 19th century prussia Age: 34 Posts: 1,057 Trader Rating: (3) Feedback Score: 3 reviews	im still deciding what im going to do for knuckles next year. I think im going to run adjustable tie rod ends and lower control arms for bump steer and roll center instead of having it all done on the knuckle. still considering my options though. __________________ driftparty.com

12-30-2010, 07:34 PM	#2239
nismobenzo Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: 405 okc Posts: 394 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	"PBM...no fucking joke" -anonymous __________________ OKSTANCE.COM FANBOY HATE MAGNET

12-31-2010, 03:24 PM	#2243
Csomme Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: north carolinazzz Age: 30 Posts: 1,009 Trader Rating: (4) Feedback Score: 4 reviews	Your caster is at 9.2!?!?!

12-31-2010, 05:00 PM	#2244
singlecamslam Post Whore! Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Norcal Posts: 2,531 Trader Rating: (10) Feedback Score: 10 reviews	Your car is just too damn low. And 9.2 caster is quite high, Make the tension rods stock length __________________ Nothing says racecar like a stock car with no interior.

12-31-2010, 05:43 PM	#2245
Hashiriya415 Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: San Francisco Age: 33 Posts: 1,007 Trader Rating: (22) Feedback Score: 22 reviews	Not sure what size tire you have, but check your wheel setback on the alignment machine.

12-31-2010, 07:17 PM	#2248
singlecamslam Post Whore! Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Norcal Posts: 2,531 Trader Rating: (10) Feedback Score: 10 reviews	the quick answer to roll center correction? Just dont lower your car so much, and it will actually handle. But seriously though i have my control set to where they are parallel to flat ground, thinking about raising it up just a hair. Not sure where it is optimal __________________ Nothing says racecar like a stock car with no interior.

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