Teknolust72

*Mods, I hope this thread becomes a decent conversation, but if it gets out of hand, please feel free to close it. Thanks!*

First off, let me say that I LOVE ZILVIA. It is always a good place for information and tough love. I've met lots of cool people along the way, and I want to say thank you to everyone that help the S-chassis scene grow. A 240sx is a relatively affordable car, and its nice that people put their heart and souls into driving and buidling cars.

But what seriously worries me is where will the industry be in 5, 10, or even 20 years?!? When I first began working in this industry 14 years ago, there were sooo many people with genuine intent to build this industry. I even remember when Turbo and Sport Compact Car magazines were a NECESSITY for every garage. Some of you guys might even have friends that started from NOTHING, and have now built an awesome career out of their passions (i.e. Dr. Charles).

So why is the current state of things different? I believe it to be lack of passion and respect for cars in general. I personally, always try to buy products from the big brands because I stand behind their tuning philosophy, passion, and reputation. If I want them to continue to make great products, the least I can do to pay them my respects is by buying their products. I know someone is gonna say "A strut bar is a strut bar!", but then I'm gonna say "Are you proud to tell all your friends you bought a $20 generic strut bar? Did you get it from the same store as your fake Louis Vuitton wallet?"

Especially with the economy in a dire situation, I feel that we, as a community(as a Zilvian), need to support the companies that literally designed everything we desire for our cars. I know this topic has been covered before, and it will probably end up in a stale mate like all the other times. But what would you feel if one of your OWN community members was responsible for replica's and knock offs?

Recently, I became aware of some individuals (ON THIS FORUM) that had the audacity to replicate Super Made body kits. I understand its expensive, but if you guys enjoy having Japanese parts brought into the U.S., then why would you want to have hundreds of copies floating all over the place....

I've worked all these years in an effort to bring the U.S. tuning scene to the same level as Japan, but now I seriously question "what's the point?" If no one is thankful to have nice parts on their cars, why even bother...

Industry old-schoolers to new schoolers, please discuss....

(sorry for the huge rant)

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LongGrain

i agree with what you are saying

i cannot honestly say that my car is knockoff free, but i do my best to buy legit parts. just when it comes to aero, i generally go with "quality" knockoffs. i drift, so naturally i destroy fiberglass like its my job, and buying a $500+ new front bumper every month or two is just not in the cards when i can get good, disposable knockoffs for a fraction of the price. and at the same time i am not destroying a rare expensive part after only a month of use...

but as far as my engine, suspension, interior, etc. i stick to brand names as much as possible. i also try to buy all my parts from local shops such as touge factory and ill garage to keep the midwest scene alive.

ThatGuy

There are fewer enthusiasts in the market today. Sure, there are more 240s being driven and tracked, but there are LESS "Enthusiasts".

Instead we are over run with individuals of the "Disposable parts for a disposable car" mind set. They buy a decent chassis for cheap, slap on crap parts, then wrap it around a light pole behind Wal-Mart with their dreams of being the new "Drift King". Or they are actually smart enough to take in a track day, however they aren't smart to "crawl before they walk", so they initiate the slide at the wrong time/speed/angle etc, and slide off in to a wall, tire barrier, etc. They don't care that they wrecked the car because they found a chassis for >$1000 and put another $2500 worth of second hand knock-off parts on it. What do they care?

Thus there is an influx of crap parts and crap owners. Welcome to being main stream and the commercialization of Drifting.

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rps13drift

Word! Engine/suspension/wheels and everything but my aero is quality parts or stuff me and my friends fabbed up on my car.
I also cant afford to break $1200 kits on the reg. If i had a legit BN or Super made kit on my car i would probably hard park it

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slider2828

You know what, the car industry as a whole is dying not just to say aftermarket. Heck you are seeing diminishing numbers of tuned cars in Japan. You know what, people just have bigger priorities in life and cars just aren't that high any more. Things around life just cost more therefore less money for cars. Standard of living have increased beyond what people salaries can support hence a squeeze on disposable income. Fuel and public transportation is getting more expensive and better, respectively. Oh wellz....


At least people buy generic or real car parts. In Japan, no one is buying car parts period in general and its noticeably contracting. As life.... time to move on.... LOL

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Flicktitty

I agree. i used to be a huge brand name backer.

then i had to build my girlfriends coupe, and she doesn't have the money for the best of the best stuff. so she spent her hard earned money where she could, Yes the car has knock off parts on it, Yes the car has Ebay junk on it. Is she/we proud of it? NO. But it's the best SHE could do at the time. she has put over $11,000 into her 240sx in the last year in parts. So even though she isn't keeping all companies afloat she did buy alot of brand name things and took the car to alot of local shops and have other people help with the car.

When/If i build a car it will be a brand name car. i don't care if i have to wait longer to get what i want done. I've noticed with my girlfriend buying some less then good parts that she should have waited and gotten better stuff, but meh, a little to late. i'm sure the "junk" parts will be taken out in favor of good brand name stuff in the future.

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brndck

lol i laughed hard when i was told by one of the employees of that company that they were having knockoffs made. o well. like in every industry, if someone makes the "same" thing for cheaper, there will always be someone who will buy it. imo there is an increasingly fine line between a cheaper product (ie megan or godspeed) and a knockoff (freddy etc). and while more and more people are increasingly vocal about disapproving of "knockoffs" alot of those same people have their entire car decked out in 2nd string parts.

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CrimsonRockett

+1.

I can't honestly say I've never rocked knock off parts, but I learned my lesson through them.

Cheaping out on suspension/engine pieces isn't exactly smart. Shit fails and you're F'd. Now, a body kit on the other hand, I'm not one to spend $1,500 on a full aero kit, slam my car to the ground, track it, and watch it all explode.

I don't exactly have disposable income.

However, I will always try my best to support the industry by buying name-brand parts.

I may be young, but I never had the drifter "whatever works" attitude.

I prefer doing things right the first time.

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-Jspec-
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Teknolust72

Whats great about the aftermarket industry in Japan is that everyone knows everyone. And if you catch your friend doing something that is not tolerated, he will get SMACKED. I've heard so many stories of how "less-than-friendly" people will take care of shops that even attempt to copy, say, a BN Sports kit. Its an unspoken law; if you cross the wrong people, there will be retaliation.

I sometimes wish we could utilize those "laws" here, and call it "tough love"

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Sleepy240

Its funny I also used to be all about the "brand name" parts and supporting the industry. But after awhile it just becomes kinda ridiculous. I mean most of us (me included) do not have copious amounts of dollars to spend on parts. Most of us do this as a hobby or just for pleasure and it simply comes down to what we can afford. In my mind there is a real hypocritical problem with people saying "I'll spend the money on a greddy manifold but won't buy a BN body kit that is to expensive." Why even buy the greddy manifold then? Because its name brand?? Because your supporting the industry?? And buying a quality brand name body kit isn't? Oh it must be because it costs 3 times that of a knock off kit. Well guess what your manifold cost the 3 times as much as the other knock off manifold. I'm not gonna sit here and say I only run name brand parts but I get really tired of people bitching and then using knock offs. I don't have a problem with it, the industry is stupid, everybody gets copied just like any other industry. Guess what your certainly not taking any money out of the multimillion dollar pockets at Greddy, or Apexi, or Megan for that matter. I'll continue to buy what I can afford, don't matter whether YOU like whats on my car or not

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A Spec Products

I need to take a nap before I can muster up the energy to bust my rant haha...but I'll give it a shot cause I have an opinion about everything lol...

I think its hard to really understand the industry's side of it unless you actually have been on our side of the fence.

Consumers care about their own wallets and their well being, which is definitely understandable. People are self-serving by nature, and our "buy in bulk" type of lifestyle with huge conglomerates has brainwashed people into thinking that those practices extends to smaller niche industries such as the aftermarket auto industry (which it does, but should not, in my opinion).

What they don't care about (which they should) is the resulting industry that occurs due to their actions.

I think the biggest issue at the moment (besides the suffering economy) is the sheer AMOUNT OF AVAILABLE PRODUCTS in the USA.

You have a JDM part, a domestic alternative, a knockoff of those products, then the knockoffs of that knockoff! The worst part is that they'are all vying for market share. So there is just this huge overload of parts, and that's why our industry is suffering...because there are too many players, and a lack of consumers to buy all these players' items.

To side with the consumers though, sometimes they don't know better. If you are fresh to the market, you might see a knockoff product and not be aware its even a knockoff, or who is the originator of that part. Still though, I think it's just the general throwaway nature of the U.S consumer that makes people buy based on price rather than functionality of quality. I think you can play off the naive "I don't know any better" for a while, but after you make mistakes using lower quality items and seeing the frustration of it, it should be your nature to seek better quality products, even if it costs more.

There's so many cliches that go through my mind, like

- "do it right the first time"
- "you get what you pay for"
- "quality doesn't come cheap"
- "if it's too good to be true it probably is"

But really, these cliches are there because they really hold true. You cannot shop around always based on price. The dangers of shopping for the lower price is that you might get scammed, you might purchase an inferior quality product, you might just make a hasty decision, or possibly miss a great deal that came along afterward.

Obviously it's hard to live your life without being a hypocrite at some point, and I'm not saying "if you run anything fake you are wack," but rather just make educated decisions. There are going to be cases where a product and its knockoff are going to be almost the same in regards to functionality, and also cases where practicality outweighs getting the real deal.

Either way, my main sadness in regards to Zilvia (or just the 240 market in general) is a lack of pride and quality in one's car. Just because a car is worth $XXX amount of money doesn't mean you modify the car accordingly. Regardless of what car you modify, you should still want to put in the same amount of quality and attention that you would put with a car twice its value. If your response to that is "well this is only a beater," then why are you even modifying it in the first place?

Doing stuff the ghetto way is cool for about 5 minutes, you get a laugh or two, then realize "oh crap," since you just made my car worst that it was previously.

But yes, just like the OP, I have a lot of love for Zilvia as well, and I have been on Zilvia and involved in the 240 community for some time now. It just makes me sad when the scene is slowly becoming less and less like the scene I was excited about back when I first started.



Yay

Thumbs up to you sir!

Good attitude, and still realistic!

The thing that also gets me is that people have this preconceived notion that th eindustry is just swimming in money and everyone is sharks and eat babies for breakfast.

But this industry works off some of the LOWEST margins I have ever seen.

And then you factor in lowballers, and fly by night dorm room online stores whoring things out?

I've said it before and I'll continue to say it...businesses need to make money (you can all GASP now).

In order to operate and keep bringing in the parts that you guys want, businesses need to support themselves...so if you continue to lowball and eat away any chance of successful profit for a company, what do you think is gonna happen?

There is a happy medium where the seller and consumer should meet, and where the result is one that is satisfying to both parties involved.

Some of you probably think that it doesn't matter who or where your product comes from, but as more shops become less and less brick and mortar stores, who are you going to physically go to? Who is going to help you with your car? Will there be a quality replacement for the quality shop that had to go out of business?

This extends beyond just parts distribution, but also to the service side. People complain about labor rates, and how expensive it is to mount tires, etc etc...fighting over DOLLARS. Quality work costs money, and the guy mounting your tire has to eat too. Putting money into the industry isn't a BAD thing. That's why I said that until you work in this industry, you will not really see the bigger picture of why so many of us in it are frustrated at times.

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lucky7

i have 1 knockoff piece on my car. and its only because i didnt want to swing the price for the real deal. its my manifold. other than that, everything is namebrand on my hoopty.

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-Dane

whatda

ohh man all the stuff on my car is legit

Sleepy240

See this is what I mean about people being hypocritical, and I don't mean this to necessarily single you out (Nothing against you this is going to more of a generalization). It's OK to drop 500$ on a manifold but 1500$ on a body kit? No thanks I stick with my $500 knock off. But then the same people will turn around and knock on people for having a freddy manifold. I honestly don't see the difference, a knock off is just that a knock off. It doesn't matter whether its aero, manifolds, or seats.

Again I'm not gonna sit here and claim to be a purist and only use name brand parts but honestly whats the point? 99% of parts serve the same purpose nowadays. Why would you choose one company over another? Such as what makes Teins $1500 coilovers better than Stances $1200 coilovers? Yet most people will spend the 300$ less on a cheaper coil because guess what, they are VERY similar. Obviously there are differences I'm not claiming part A = part B. But when part A is very comparable to part B its not a very difficult decision.

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ESmorz

This happens everywhere. Hell, even the cereal market is overrun by imitations.

I am sick and tired of hearing this shit. If you want quality and a guarantee get the brand you love and trust, if you want it now and you want it cheap get a lower priced item or knock off. To me the people who are buying the cheap knock off's are the type of people who wouldn't buy the original anyways. If anything I think the whole of the aftermarket needs a reboot. There just isn't as much innovation anymore and thus leaving the market stagnant and over saturated.

The 240 scene sucks. Personally I think most peoples cars are ugly as fuck. Dumping money into rusted up and twisted shit boxes that should be crushed for the sake of Nissans name anyways so they can take it out at night for cheap thrills .

So here's my advice. Suck it the fuck up and build cars for yourself. Not for the scene, not so your buddies think you're cool, and don't be a fuck tard. If the aftermarket tuning scene dies. It will start all over again and people might actually have to start doing some of the work themselves instead of whipping out the credit card and adding every shiny new bell and whistle from Greddy to their shopping cart.

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LongGrain

this.

should be a sticky.

I'm active on more than one type of car forum, and I see this attitude EVERYWHERE, and honestly it makes me sick. it just begs the questions "if you really dont care enough to do things right, why even put time, money, and effort into doing them at all?" its really terrible.

BoostedCoupe

I fill the same way. Yeah i havent been in the 240 game long. I bought my first 240 when i was 15 which was like 4 years ago. So im by far no OG but i hate seeing people buy nothing but knock off parts and make/treat the car like shit. Like in the dope vert thread where everyone was jocking that black vert that looked like trash. I mean broken aero all over. Trunk not even on the car, the car was all rattle canned. I mean i know some people cant afford the best parts but that dosent mean you have to just thorw a car together.

Yes i would be one to buy a 500 knock off body kit. But i would buy a bn sport if i had the funds to buy it. Just because i know when i buy bn sports the bumper will fit perfect like OEM. Where when i buy that knock off kit its a hit or miss with fitment. But when it comes to parts that are important. Intake manifold. exhaust manifold etc. I wouldnt cheap out. I dont think you should ever cheap out on parts that matter. I have no problem with people buying ebay catbacks as to buying a 500+ exhaust. But when people buy cheap china made parts then complain about why it broke a month later i cant stand that.

I just wish people with 240s wouldnt destroy them just because they got them for cheap. Im sick and tired of some kid that buys a 240 goes out and destroys it because he wants to drift it. Yes i like drifting and i do some sliding on back roads and in parking lots, but i do not do it where i put other people in danger our risk destroying my car.

I also dont understand why only in the 240 game it is "cool" to do tacky mods. Like painting the interior all diffrent colors and stuff like that. Since when is that cool? i thought that is what people got called ricers for. And the whole JDM thing needs to die. I hate when people by things just because its "JDM" i will buy the quality made part, no matter what country makes it. Hell if a company in iraq made a better intercooler then a company in japan did i would buy the iraq. People just buy quality parts. Save the compaines.

Dont let the car culture die. Yeah the economy might be bad at this time but it will get better. I see the 240 scene cleaning up in the next couple years. People will move on. The 240 is the new civic. Everyone wants one. The 240 will be just like the civic itll get old to the fanboys and then the people who really like the car will still be around. Im done with my rant. A 5 paragraph post on zilvia wow.

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driven_

"used" brand name > "new" knockoff.

my brother learned his lesson. Haha.

he has like $15,000 into his hatch.
$5,000 of that is probably wasted to him buying knockoffs.

live and learn.

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Teknolust72

From an industry stand point, we work really hard to bring you guys GREAT products. Products that will make you proud of your OWN car. Products that have been tested through numerous environments to ensure that you end up with a quality piece that will fit and work well. But when someone blatantly copies those efforts, and the consumers buy it, it is a straight slap in the face.

Passion and respect is all I'm asking for. Just ask yourself when you look at your car "is this the BEST I could do?"

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CrimsonRockett

To make things perfectly clear, I would spend the money to buy a $1,500 kit, but I wouldn't exactly take it to the track and watch it blow up. It would be more of a hard parker(like stated above).

It's not that I'm cheap and prefer rocking a knock off kit that fits like shit. If anything, I have the same standards when it comes down to exterior parts as well(hence the reason why i'm running OEM Aero).

Your comparison to Tein and Stance is just personal preference. Both are great coilovers. Some people like Tein's more than Stance and Stance more than Tein.

I'm not one to knock on people for rocking knock-off parts either. I can understand with certain people because I've been in their shoes. They don't exactly have the money to buy Cusco this, or JIC that. They try to mod their cars with their allowed income.

People learn from their mistakes.(That's a true enthusiast). You realize how much your previous knock off part sucked compared to your new legit part. For example, I rode on D2 coilovers for about half a year. That was my first coilover...ever. I made $7.50/hr back when I got those. Sure, I had heard JIC's were the shit, but I just couldn't afford them back then. I worked hard, got out of that crappy job, got myself into an office job making loads of money(for someone still living at home with no real bills). What's the first thing I did? Got rid of my D2's and bought my current JIC FLT-A2's. WORLD of a difference.

From then on, I tried my best to replace all of the crappy parts I was only able to afford with my allowed income. I had the whole new car feel to it. No random clunks here or there.

I build my car for my own pleasure. I chose to use the best parts I can afford.

I'll never talk down to someone running knock off parts.

I simply suggest to do some research. That's really all it takes to know what parts are worth the money.

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A Spec Products

This is true.

I'd say right now the industry is sorta reaching something like that and is currently self cleaning/regulating itself with closings and such.

Hopefully more of the bad companies get weeded out, and the good ones can continue to do business. For all of our sakes, trust me.

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cc4usmc

That's probably the main reason why people use knock off stuff.. they don't wanna swing the price for the real deal. Sooo... yeah..

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Sleepy240

What I don't get is why people complain about OTHER peoples cars. Its not yours who cares what the hell person A buys. All you can control is what YOU buy. Its not like your gonna talk this guy into making his vert into what you WANT it to be. IMO I think it looks stupid but its not my call, hes the one who has to drive it.

This is what I mean by hypocritical, you bash the guy with a rattle canned vert with a bad fitting body kit and you'll go and buy the same damn bad fitting kit. "Oh well my car is getting tracked and the kit will probably get broken". Guess what? Manifolds crack, things break it doesn't matter whether they cost $50 or $500.


Like I said it wasn't directed DIRECTLY at you but atleast I believe you got the jest of my post. I used Tein/Stance just for an example you can almost replace those with any two companies, Zeal or HKS Hypermaxs etc. Everybody lives to what you can afford your car is no different, I'm not gonna knock anybody for using a knock off part. I don't know what kind of situation that person is in, think about it this way maybe that person only makes 7.50/hr like you did.

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Maxstyle

I myself try so hard to work for the parts that I have. I am currently in the industry and every month a company has to let people go because some one else wants to dip in for cheaper. I personally think that tuning your car is a privilage that is earned by hard work. I better myself to be able to afford the products produced by either original artists or engineer that created it. I know that if i sat down drawing out a product and began selling it, and someone took my ideas and gained a profit from it, I'd be upset. I'd even be compelled to eventually stop. Not only that, but cars have become fashion. It's now as disposable as ladies clothing. It's like when I used to see Tommy Sports or those Nike's that had the swoosh backwards. HAHA. Knock off's are Fike's.

ESmorz

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BoostedCoupe

I didnt say anything about him rocking a knock off kit. For all i know is it is name brand. I was talking about how the car is rattle canned. I mean hell factory paint is better then can. and the kit was all hanging off. it looks like he just therw the car together in 10mins or so, it just looks tacky. With the manifold. Go buy a tomie manifold and a cheap ebay one. I bet you the tomie will last alot longer than the ebay one will. Thats all im saying. I dont see how you say im hypocritical. I wasnt knocking him for something i would do. I was knocking him on making the car looks tacky. But who knows he might think my car looks like shit. everyone dosent like the same thing. o well.

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92 vert converted 5speed and other little things

Farzam

I meannnnnnn

I believe in doing your thing

"scenes" and "crews" and shit like that...not my taste

I guess i'm like Eminem in 8 mile or something, yo. JUST DOIN MA THANG YO

I love legit parts. But sometimes an 18 year old like me can't afford $2000 sets of wheels, or new paint. So i'm willing to take a risk in looking into getting knockoff parts. Sure, I haven't actually bought any yet, but i'm damn set on getting some sportmaxx and spacers right now. I'm not gonna brag about my wheels, and i'm definitely gonna respray em some color that won't grab much attention, but damnit i'll be happy with my purchase I bet.

Some things i'd rather dish out $$ on, and some things i'll take a hit for. If I find some nice, FIA-approved seats, and they aren't Recaro/Bride/Sparco/Status/ballerbrand i'll probably not care. IF there's a logo on the seat, i'll try to take it off...but I wont' act like i've got hot shit.

Just be humble, support your peers, have fun, and be care free! This is a passion, not a UN meeting!

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S14DB

So there is only Boutique or Flea Market? No middle of the road options like any other industry?

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TheWolf

there is a HUGE! stack of crap part inventory right now..... with margins getting tighter and tighter and some manufacturers don't enforce price agreements so there's nothing like competing with people in their garage..

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Sleepy240

EXACTLY! Everybody acts like if you don't purchase Greddy this or HKS this your car is just gonna fall apart and fail.

Every other industry is experiencing layoffs and people are trying to blame "knock offs" like its the only problem. How about the fact that your company is PROBABLY knocking off a product from another company etc etc, regardless the auto industry is not the only one being effected. Tuning your car is by far NOT a privilege, anybody able to own a car should be able to tune it. What does it matter whether it cost me $5,000 or $50,000?

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