krokodil drug - Page 5 - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

thefro526 · 09-29-2013, 07:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VNG704

You don't think more people will use these drugs because of easier/legal access? Controlled drugs are also being illegally sold today. I don't know how people are getting them but they have controlled weed, pain killers, etc... and selling them to addicts. So the only positive I see from your post is that the drugs will not be as damaging and the money from taxing. Though you make a somewhat good option, I think I prefer to keep them illegal. People will get their drugs one way or another but atleast it being illegal will deter some.

I understand where you're coming from, and you're right prescription medications are pretty much freely sold by those who don't need them to those who abuse them. With that being said, that's not all that different from the street drug model, with the main difference being that the drugs are 'safe'.

Personally I think having unrestricted access to substances would lead to decrease in usage rates, at least among those who would 'typically' become addicts. I sort of see it as removing the 'gateway'. I don't believe that 'gateway drug' shit that they try to teach in school, the drugs aren't the gateway, the people that you use with and get them from are the gateway.

Corbic · 09-29-2013, 10:13 AM

Honestly I think you just have addicts out there. They are predestined to be trash their entire lives.

These are the people that get rotten orange peels and suck on them to get a nicotine buz, they sniff glue, drink 5 cans of redbull and can't just smoke one joint, once a month at a party with friends... they roll out of bed, get high and spend their day either high or trying to find ways to be high.

Just like alcohol. There are people that get wild and crazy once a year, there are people that will have a few drinks with the boys and then theirs the people that can't make it through a day without being mildly intoxicated all day long.

Legalizing this shit would do two things. It would allow the Government to tax the piss out of a trillion dollar industry while reducing the actual costs of drugs.

It would reduce crime as 70% of crime is committed because of drugs - either thefts/robberies to get money to buy it, or violence related to selling it.

It would reduce the cost of incarceration because of the reduced crime. It would also destroy the mexican drug cartels powers - back to protection, gambling and prostitution rackets with them.

As for the millions of people that will destroy their lives with substance abuse - fuck them. Seriously. They want to get high all day long, FUCK THEM. Let them, be my guest. You want to overdose on over-the-counter heroine? Go ahead, it's a free fucking country.

The flip to this, which our liberal democrats would never agree with is that if you test positive for drugs or are a user - you don't get a fucking nickel of social welfare, healthcare or insurance. Everything in life has consequences.

***S14DB*** · 09-29-2013, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corbic

The flip to this, which our liberal democrats would never agree with is that if you test positive for drugs or are a user - you don't get a fucking nickel of social welfare, healthcare or insurance. Everything in life has consequences.

Wait, Aren't they doing that already? How many people are testing positive?

ultimateforce · 09-29-2013, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by S14DB

Wait, Aren't they doing that already? How many people are testing positive?

Basically none. The drug testing companies made a killing taking money from the government though.

An inane, money-eating sham: Drug tests for welfare a huge failure - Salon.com

The usual, they get the middle class to hate poor people while the rich fill their pockets.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/18/us...ests.html?_r=0

Welfare Drug Testing Catches Only 12 Users In Utah

Florida didn't save money by drug testing welfare recipients, data shows | Tampa Bay Times

This may surprise you, but if you are truly broke you don't have money for drugs. On the flip side, for someone who has a serious drug habit I wonder what happens when you take away their access to money yet don't give them options for treatment? What about the children, who are stuck with their drug addicted parents? It's not like we have real social services anymore for them.

Oh, they become violent criminals of course. That is truly what we want; more ways to feel superior over a group of people.

Now if we want to really even things out let's drug test farmers and home owners who get money from the government too. Oh wait, that would be unfair! It's only bad when the working poor smoke weed, not me!

VNG704 · 09-29-2013, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thefro526

I understand where you're coming from, and you're right prescription medications are pretty much freely sold by those who don't need them to those who abuse them. With that being said, that's not all that different from the street drug model, with the main difference being that the drugs are 'safe'.

Personally I think having unrestricted access to substances would lead to decrease in usage rates, at least among those who would 'typically' become addicts. I sort of see it as removing the 'gateway'. I don't believe that 'gateway drug' shit that they try to teach in school, the drugs aren't the gateway, the people that you use with and get them from are the gateway.

Not "safe", just not as damaging. Like you're brain will still fry, just slower.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corbic

Honestly I think you just have addicts out there. They are predestined to be trash their entire lives.

These are the people that get rotten orange peels and suck on them to get a nicotine buz, they sniff glue, drink 5 cans of redbull and can't just smoke one joint, once a month at a party with friends... they roll out of bed, get high and spend their day either high or trying to find ways to be high.

Just like alcohol. There are people that get wild and crazy once a year, there are people that will have a few drinks with the boys and then theirs the people that can't make it through a day without being mildly intoxicated all day long.

Legalizing this shit would do two things. It would allow the Government to tax the piss out of a trillion dollar industry while reducing the actual costs of drugs.

It would reduce crime as 70% of crime is committed because of drugs - either thefts/robberies to get money to buy it, or violence related to selling it.

It would reduce the cost of incarceration because of the reduced crime. It would also destroy the mexican drug cartels powers - back to protection, gambling and prostitution rackets with them.

As for the millions of people that will destroy their lives with substance abuse - fuck them. Seriously. They want to get high all day long, FUCK THEM. Let them, be my guest. You want to overdose on over-the-counter heroine? Go ahead, it's a free fucking country.

The flip to this, which our liberal democrats would never agree with is that if you test positive for drugs or are a user - you don't get a fucking nickel of social welfare, healthcare or insurance. Everything in life has consequences.

So then we'll see a rise in other crimes? There goes the cost of incarceration because of reduced crime you were talking about.

Best bet was to have it legal and controlled from the beginning. It's too late now. Just look at the legal drugs, they get sold and abused just like illegal drugs. People are too, uh...human to do any better.

thefro526 · 09-29-2013, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corbic

Legalizing this shit would do two things. It would allow the Government to tax the piss out of a trillion dollar industry while reducing the actual costs of drugs.

It would reduce crime as 70% of crime is committed because of drugs - either thefts/robberies to get money to buy it, or violence related to selling it.

It would reduce the cost of incarceration because of the reduced crime. It would also destroy the mexican drug cartels powers - back to protection, gambling and prostitution rackets with them.

As for the millions of people that will destroy their lives with substance abuse - fuck them. Seriously. They want to get high all day long, FUCK THEM. Let them, be my guest. You want to overdose on over-the-counter heroine? Go ahead, it's a free fucking country.

The flip to this, which our liberal democrats would never agree with is that if you test positive for drugs or are a user - you don't get a fucking nickel of social welfare, healthcare or insurance. Everything in life has consequences.

Words cannot express how much I agree with this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by VNG704

Not "safe", just not as damaging. Like you're brain will still fry, just slower.

Agreed, which is why I put the word safe in quotes. Arguably, the adulterants/contaminants in drugs are the real problem, as they have their own side effects, along with varying the amount of the 'drug' in a given doses.

Look at all of the people that are prescribed drugs indefinitely for one reason or another. Chronic pain, ADHD, Narcolepsy, Axiety, Depression, etc. they can be on this stuff all of their life, and they will experience side effects, and a possibly shortened life span, but are at least - to some degree -f unctional members of society that don't have to resort to crime and/or morally questionable acts to fill their need.

Quote:

Originally Posted by VNG704

So then we'll see a rise in other crimes? There goes the cost of incarceration because of reduced crime you were talking about.

Best bet was to have it legal and controlled from the beginning. It's too late now. Just look at the legal drugs, they get sold and abused just like illegal drugs. People are too, uh...human to do any better.

I don't see where the increased rate of crime comes from. You legalize previously illegal substances and remove the incentive for people to break the law to sell/acquire them. These people can now walk down to their local pharmacy, buy whatever they want and continue on with their day. The pricing for substances would be reasonably stable, and it would be safe to think that use of these things would be regarded in the same way as alcohol or tobacco, meaning that there wouldn't be a need to worry about getting drug tested.

There's also the issue of 'chronic' incarceration to think about. Imagine all of the people who go to jail for 'minor' drug offenses - like possession of weed. These people go to jail, and when they get out, they're considered felons - meaning that they're going to struggle to get a halfway decent job for the rest of their lives. Because of this, to make something that resembles a decent income, they go back to crime, and eventually get caught.. It's a vicious cycle.

VNG704 · 09-30-2013, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thefro526

I don't see where the increased rate of crime comes from.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corbic

Honestly I think you just have addicts out there. They are predestined to be trash their entire lives.

These are the people that get rotten orange peels and suck on them to get a nicotine buz, they sniff glue, drink 5 cans of redbull and can't just smoke one joint, once a month at a party with friends... they roll out of bed, get high and spend their day either high or trying to find ways to be high.

Just like alcohol. There are people that get wild and crazy once a year, there are people that will have a few drinks with the boys and then theirs the people that can't make it through a day without being mildly intoxicated all day long.
- this results in drunk driving, fights, etc...drug abuse make you do stupid and sometimes other illegal acts.
Legalizing this shit would do two things. It would allow the Government to tax the piss out of a trillion dollar industry while reducing the actual costs of drugs.

It would reduce crime as 70% of crime is committed because of drugs - either thefts/robberies to get money to buy it, or violence related to selling it.

It would reduce the cost of incarceration because of the reduced crime. It would also destroy the mexican drug cartels powers - back to protection, gambling and prostitution rackets with them.

As for the millions of people that will destroy their lives with substance abuse - fuck them. Seriously. They want to get high all day long, FUCK THEM. Let them, be my guest. You want to overdose on over-the-counter heroine? Go ahead, it's a free fucking country.

The flip to this, which our liberal democrats would never agree with is that if you test positive for drugs or are a user - you don't get a fucking nickel of social welfare, healthcare or insurance. Everything in life has consequences.

I was elaborating on Corbic's post. You're right, lets look at alcohol. You may have a decreased in the illegal sales but that does not help other drug related crimes. Now, I don't know of anything better either. I just wanted to point things out.

7x13 · 09-30-2013, 02:45 PM

WHAT THE FUUUUUUUH!

If I had to choose I'd go all natural for my drug induced hulucinations.
Good thing I Don't do drugs.

"Its in your nature to destroy yourselves"

sleepyS14se · 09-30-2013, 02:51 PM

wow this thread has gotten pretty deep...LOL....

I just viewed some images on google and read up about it a bit and zomg is all i can say...

this really doesn't surprise me, just like the bath salts and the guy who ate the other guys face off did not even surprise me one bit.

tiggertsi · 09-30-2013, 04:33 PM

some of you were speaking of addicts. addiction isn't just localized to drug users. addiction can cover a gambit of things, like shopping addiction and sex addiction. and those non drug addictions can and have ruined lives just as badly as drug addictions.

i can't say it better than this guy .......

Quote:

There is a general myth that drugs, in themselves, are addictive. In fact, the war on drugs is predicated on the idea that if you interdict the source of drugs you can deal with addiction that way. Now, if you understand addiction in the broader sense we see that nothing in itself is addictive. No substance, no drug is by itself addictive and no behavior is by itself addictive. Many people can go shopping without becoming shopaholics. Not everyone becomes a food addict. Not everyone who drinks a glass of wine becomes an alcoholic. So the real issue is: what makes people susceptible? Because it's the combination of a susceptible individual and the potentially addictive substance or behavior that makes for the full flowering of addiction. In short, it's not the drug that's addictive, it's the question of the susceptibility of the individual to being addicted to a particular substance or behavior.

- Gabor Maté

from the wiki about him "Canadian physician who specializes in the study and treatment of addiction and is also widely recognized for his unique perspective on Attention Deficit Disorder and his firmly held belief in the connection between mind and body health."

now with that being said ..... if you do drugs educate yourself to what drug you are doing. natural is always preferable in my experience, like thc, psilocybin and lsa. and it's a shame that we have a government that instead of truly educating our populace about recreational drugs they wage a "war" against anyone who wants to experiment with altering their consciousness. while at the same time condoning the sale and use of prescribed drugs that do more damage than the conditions they are supposed to treat. I would have thought that the government would have learned its lesson during prohibition but I guess fear and ignorance still triumph at the end of the day.

but who am i to say?

uraznfriend · 10-03-2013, 01:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tiggertsi

some of you were speaking of addicts. addiction isn't just localized to drug users. addiction can cover a gambit of things, like shopping addiction and sex addiction. and those non drug addictions can and have ruined lives just as badly as drug addictions.

i dont believe shopaholics and gamblers are "real" addicts theyre are just weak minded individuals that cannot give up a guilty pleasure of theirs. Physical drugs, heroine, coke, meth, oxycotton, etc are physically messing with peoples chemical balance forcing them to continue on seeking that "high". Its like that stop smoking commercial of that guy going to addiction centers saying hes was addicted to running and M&Ms, they are all looking at him like hes dumb because neither of those have universally addicting qualities.

tiggertsi · 10-03-2013, 04:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uraznfriend

i dont believe shopaholics and gamblers are "real" addicts theyre are just weak minded individuals that cannot give up a guilty pleasure of theirs. Physical drugs, heroine, coke, meth, oxycotton, etc are physically messing with peoples chemical balance forcing them to continue on seeking that "high". Its like that stop smoking commercial of that guy going to addiction centers saying hes was addicted to running and M&Ms, they are all looking at him like hes dumb because neither of those have universally addicting qualities.

i understand what you're saying. but when it comes to what you classify as real addictions i'll listen to someone who has actually treated "real" addictions and has made a name for himself based on his highly successful methods and ideology concerning addictions, mainly treating those who are severely addicted to heroine. and alot of those i have heard in his same field share his thoughts about addiction. information is out there all you got to do is search.

***S14DB*** · 10-03-2013, 05:53 AM

Wow, I didn't know so many people on here had such diverse backgrounds in addiction medicine...

xoxide · 10-03-2013, 07:22 AM

^I'm also an established facebook politician and lawyer depending on the occasion.

stevenrapids · 10-03-2013, 09:31 AM

^hahahaha so true with everyone. Idk why everyone is getting in an arguement of people being addicts. Not all cases are the same, so to put them all in one category is dumb. Fact of the matter is, if you are weak-minded enough to take a drug you know is harmful and has a track record of being addictive, you rolled the dice from the get go. No sympathy coming from me.

Matej · 10-03-2013, 10:19 AM

Legalize it!

Krokodil helps me relax after a long day of watching TV.

S14kouki_10 · 10-03-2013, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uraznfriend

i dont believe shopaholics and gamblers are "real" addicts theyre are just weak minded individuals that cannot give up a guilty pleasure of theirs. Physical drugs, heroine, coke, meth, oxycotton, etc are physically messing with peoples chemical balance forcing them to continue on seeking that "high". Its like that stop smoking commercial of that guy going to addiction centers saying hes was addicted to running and M&Ms, they are all looking at him like hes dumb because neither of those have universally addicting qualities.

Im pretty sure your dopamine levels rise when shopping, gambling, eating m&m's etc.. therefore there is chemical changes in your body... everything is an addiction, just different things/levels.. addiction is for the weak-minded in general
can we say that life is an addiction? how can we solve that? how do we control life.. knowledge/education?

09-30-2013, 02:51 PM	#129
sleepyS14se Zilvia Addict Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Georgia Age: 32 Posts: 880 Trader Rating: (3) Feedback Score: 3 reviews	wow this thread has gotten pretty deep...LOL.... I just viewed some images on google and read up about it a bit and zomg is all i can say... this really doesn't surprise me, just like the bath salts and the guy who ate the other guys face off did not even surprise me one bit. __________________ 95 S14 se RB25DET 348whp

10-03-2013, 05:53 AM	#133
*S14DB* AFC #1 Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: 昨晩あなたのお母さんの家 Posts: 20,181 Trader Rating: (3) Feedback Score: 3 reviews	Wow, I didn't know so many people on here had such diverse backgrounds in addiction medicine... __________________ Comments should be taken as Opinions not as Statements of Fact

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09-29-2013, 10:13 AM	#122
Corbic Post Whore! Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: US Age: 37 Posts: 8,027 Trader Rating: (8) Feedback Score: 8 reviews	Honestly I think you just have addicts out there. They are predestined to be trash their entire lives. These are the people that get rotten orange peels and suck on them to get a nicotine buz, they sniff glue, drink 5 cans of redbull and can't just smoke one joint, once a month at a party with friends... they roll out of bed, get high and spend their day either high or trying to find ways to be high. Just like alcohol. There are people that get wild and crazy once a year, there are people that will have a few drinks with the boys and then theirs the people that can't make it through a day without being mildly intoxicated all day long. Legalizing this shit would do two things. It would allow the Government to tax the piss out of a trillion dollar industry while reducing the actual costs of drugs. It would reduce crime as 70% of crime is committed because of drugs - either thefts/robberies to get money to buy it, or violence related to selling it. It would reduce the cost of incarceration because of the reduced crime. It would also destroy the mexican drug cartels powers - back to protection, gambling and prostitution rackets with them. As for the millions of people that will destroy their lives with substance abuse - fuck them. Seriously. They want to get high all day long, FUCK THEM. Let them, be my guest. You want to overdose on over-the-counter heroine? Go ahead, it's a free fucking country. The flip to this, which our liberal democrats would never agree with is that if you test positive for drugs or are a user - you don't get a fucking nickel of social welfare, healthcare or insurance. Everything in life has consequences.

09-30-2013, 02:45 PM	#128
7x13 Leaky Injector Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: 90280 SoCal Age: 32 Posts: 116 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	WHAT THE FUUUUUUUH! If I had to choose I'd go all natural for my drug induced hulucinations. Good thing I Don't do drugs. "Its in your nature to destroy yourselves"

10-03-2013, 07:22 AM	#134
xoxide Post Whore! Join Date: May 2010 Location: Jacksonville Posts: 2,807 Trader Rating: (21) Feedback Score: 21 reviews	^I'm also an established facebook politician and lawyer depending on the occasion.

10-03-2013, 09:31 AM	#135
stevenrapids Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Dayton, Oh Age: 29 Posts: 445 Trader Rating: (7) Feedback Score: 7 reviews	^hahahaha so true with everyone. Idk why everyone is getting in an arguement of people being addicts. Not all cases are the same, so to put them all in one category is dumb. Fact of the matter is, if you are weak-minded enough to take a drug you know is harmful and has a track record of being addictive, you rolled the dice from the get go. No sympathy coming from me.

10-03-2013, 10:19 AM	#136
Matej Post Whore! Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: N/A Posts: 9,423 Trader Rating: (39) Feedback Score: 39 reviews	Legalize it! Krokodil helps me relax after a long day of watching TV.