xs420240sx

I was surfing the internet one day and if I can remember correctly, I had found some turbos that only needed water to cool or lubricate bearings and such. Does anyone know of these turbos off the top of their head?

shogun!

I would never lubricate my turbo with water...

Versions I have seen so far
No water cooling and only oil cooling/lubrication YES!

Water and oil cooling/lubrication YES!

Water cooling disrupted oil cooling/lubrication YES! (Disaster)

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xs420240sx

i found it already. comp turbo's oil less turbos. water is used for cooling, it has incased bearings lubed with high temp grease meant to be repacked at certain intervals. i guess theyve been around for a while now in the drag racing world and other places where a turbo needs to be mounted in an awkward position that doesnt allow for gravity oil draining.

Croustibat

ball bearing turbos are just lubricated by oil, not cooled, hence why they have an oil restrictor.

I guess these turbos need to be regreased after each run or something like that. Still i'd be interested in more info on them.

xs420240sx

ball bearing turbos i thought were lubed by oil AND cooled by water. iirc water is required on ball bearings. as far as the comp turbo oil less units, i think i read that every 50,000 miles was the interval for lube repacking
Comp Turbo - Oil Less

S14DB

Reminds me of the Foil Bearing turbos.

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Def

Those Comp oil-less turbos are junk. The CHRAs typically don't last more than a few hundred miles, and they spool up super slow due to the bearing drag. A bunch of BMW guys kept trying them out since they're too lazy to make a decent manifold that allows the CHRA to drain. All of them died in short order.

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FaLKoN240

Why would you want to do this? Even the most basic home made turbos use oil to cool/lubricate turbos.

It's way easier to run an oil line off a sandwich plate from the oil filter, than it is to fab up lines for water cooling...

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xs420240sx

Hmmm, thanks for the input. I didnt know people had problems with them. They were supposed to spool "1000-1500" faster than a standard turbo according to Comp. The main reason i was looking at these turbos was for a ka-t where i wouldnt have to tap an oil drain that would clog up on sharp right hand turns

xs420240sx

As far as water lines go, i think the sr already has a pair for the ball bearing turbo, maybe not i dont know sr's that well, the ka can be tapped for water off a coolant line near the throttle body and on a ka not only would you have to run the feed line from a sandwich plate or pressure sender, but also tap the drain back to the pan which can be tricky if you want to go around the a/c

waxball88

Its really not that tricky.

xs420240sx

i still think it would be more easier and more efficient if you only had to run water lines because of the reason i said before. the drain bung will clog up and not allow proper oil draining if you make a sharp right hand turn. unless you only put like 2 quarts of oil in.

PoorMans180SX

How long will it "clog up" for, a couple seconds? It's not a big deal man, especially if we're talking about ball bearing turbos that really don't have much oil going to them anyway. It's not like the drain line is going to fill up if the oil level reaches the opening in the oil pan.

Borg Warner's EFRs (engineered for racing) have water and oil ports on the CHRA. That, for me, is enough to say that the oil going through your turbo is important and the best way to do it. Not to mention the fact that it's been done that way since the beginning of the turbocharger.

While an "oil-less" turbo is a nice idea, there have been no effective designs of it, from the Aerodyne VNT with it's self-contained oiling system and continuing to these new Comp "grease filled" ones.

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xs420240sx

well maybe in a couple years or so the oil less turbos will have evolved enough to be reliable. i guess until then, im draining into the pan or perhaps tapping the block and utilizing a block drain such as the sr. the biggest concern regarding ka-t oil draining was backing it up on right turns and i was weighing my option on preventing this.

S14DB

Garrett developed it in the 60's and never put it into automotive. The current automotive designs have been around for 10yrs.

The tolerances, load and heat of automotive applications do not lend themselves to oil less bearings.

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xs420240sx

thanks for the letdown. haha. well maybe journal bearing is just the way to go. no water, just oil

Kingtal0n

Rear mount oil-less comp turbochargers work VERY well from what I have read on the V8 (LSx) forums. I know of at least one 1000RWHP vette using them quite effectively. Try google searching "comp turbo LSx" or "comp turbo vette" sometime


The reason I do not like the traditional oil-only top mount is because of the heat retention I have noticed some of them are capable of. The compressor housing of a small-ish T04E 50 trim that has been polished can feel as hot as the exhaust manifold. I know because... I melted some of my skin on one recently. IMO, Peace of mind when shutting your engine off is knowing that water flows through the CHRA.

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kamilitaryman

xs420240sx

it's easier to take water from your throttle body over to the turbo than it is to have to tap a ka oil pan to return and hook up the oil feed line from the pressure sender. you wouldnt have to remove the oil pan, you just reroute the coolant tube that is by the throttle body over to the turbo and then route the other back in. if you think that welding on the oil pan after having to take it out is easier then that's ok too.
with an oil less turbo that only uses water, it's easier to set it up to where you know water is constantly flowing through it vs. an oiled turbo where it would be possible to back up the drain line on a ka oil pan since your return is on the pan where all the oil sits and sloshes around.

xs420240sx

you have an xccessive oil pan to greddy pan. i would be doing this on a stock pan. so you cant even compare those 2, most of your oil probably sits in the greddy pan

Kingtal0n

It's not worth it... but... I've always wanted (dreamed) of a rear-mount oil-less turbocharger (smallest one available) on an unmodified KA24DE engine. 7psi of boost, automatic transmission, stock exhaust.

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5.3/4l80e/turbo 240sx playthrough:
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S14DB

Not that hard, been covered...
http://zilvia.net/f/tech-talk/208381...turn-line.html

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Croustibat

If these turbos were to be good one day, it will help every folk that has to mount their turbo low (like oil pan / under oil pan), where turbo oil scavenging is a problem. It would also allow turbos to be mounted vertically. To me these are the 2 reasons i want one.

But if they are crap, no point eh.

Def

If the turbo is anywhere close to stock SR height or higher you will *NEVER* *NEVER* get oil up to the CHRA level. You'd be pulling about 3-4 G's lateral to do that, and that's not happening in your S chassis no matter how many Megan Racing and Stance parts you slap on it.

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kamilitaryman

I see what you're saying now. I can definitely see that happening with a time attack/road course car, where it would take some serious prolonged lateral forces to get the oil to sit there long enough to create a blockage. Perhaps draining it to the back of the pan would work. As long as there isn't any 90* bends in the return, it should work. I wouldn't worry about this on a DD/street car.

S14DB hit the nail on the head with that thread.

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Kingtal0n

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5.3/4l80e/turbo 240sx playthrough:
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Def

It will *NOT* back up oil in the CHRA anywhere close to stock SR height. You'd have to have your turbo hanging down by your lower oil pan to have an issue with drainage.

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S14DB

But, I have the durfritos low maxxx turbo manifold. Super long tube manifold for optimum exhaust scavenging.

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PoorMans180SX

Don't forget super optimum weight distribution and handling gains.

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S14DB

...and the straight pipe turbine outlet and down pipe. Better scavenging and no restrictive bends into the exhaust. So awesome having the turbo inline with the exhaust.

Got the scavenge pump in place of the AC compressor. AC in cars is for *SNIP*. Nothing better than some hot trim sweating in the passenger seat.

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