simmode1

Hmmm... 2016 might be real interesting, guys. Little brother...


Big Brother?



Dare we hope that Hyundai/Kia have the balls to build both these cars?!?

WristWork

Hopefully the steering wheel gets removed

drift freaq

Wow King I could not agree with you more on this. Except that you have to take it even back one decade. The 70's is where the Japanese started to show they were not just building tin can shit box's.Toyota Corolla's Celica's and Pickups. Datsun 510/510/710 , 240Z and PL620 Pickups. These cars proved the Japanese could build a decent reliable automobile that was also good on mileage for the day. It gave them the foundation for what would happen in the 80's with the Camry and the Maxima etc which would lead to their luxury lines.

Hyundai's first reliable car actually has been the Genesis line like you said. Hyundai and Kia do indeed have yet to completely prove themselves in the sports car world and unlike Nissan and Toyota and Honda they do not have a racing heritage that started before they came to this country. Kia has somewhat of that in Pro Rally but not like the Japanese who were in all types of motorsports from the get go.

Oh and before and during that time Kia's were known to be unreliable pieces of junk. I knew people who owned them and those things spent more time at the dealerships under warranty than driving around. lol

Honestly I will say it again the Kia concept looks interesting, sounds great but I am skeptical of it going beyond concept.

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Corbic

If you say so.




Go drive one. Nobody gives a crap about "racing heritage". If that is all that mattered everyone would be driving a 911, Corvette or Mustang.


Are any of the Japanese even in motor-sports anymore? When was the last Subaru, Toyota, Honda or Mitsubishi backed rally team?

Face it, the Japanese have been killing off their sporting heritage as fast as they can.

S2K - Dead
ITR - Dead
Prelude - Dead
Del Sol - Dead
Evo - Dead
Supra - Dead
RX-7 - Dead
RX-8 - Dead
3000GT - Dead
Eclipse GST - Dead
CRX - Dead
Pulsar GTiR- Dead
Celica - Dead
MR2 - Dead
Turbo Z - Dead
Silvia - Dead
180sx - Dead
FTO - Dead
Starion - Dead

What we have left is a $110k GT-R, a bloated boring $33k Z, the FR-S and a dated ugly WRX/STi. Where is the cutting edge OMFG cars that existed in the 90's?

Yes, we have a Civic Si that makes 210hp, but how is that anymore raw or amazing then the 197hp ITR and CTR from 15 years ago?

How is a 265Hp WRX anymore exciting then the 265hp WRX-RA from 15 years ago?

Mitsubishi - WTF?!

The Japanese nearly bankrupt themselves in the 90's with all the various models and performance cars. They are now on an ultra conservative approach and I don't see that changing.


Yeah, so terrible. Thank god they didn't have to own those garbage JDM cars from the 80's that would turn to dust from rust just looking at them.

LOLWUT!! Tundra


I'll give you that.

What I like about the Koreans is that they actually have some balls. They threw down first with the GC, and while I don't like the GC, I won't fault them for trying.

They are also putting out some serious hot cars right now, something the Japanese are NOT DOING.

Turbo Optima, Turbo Veloster, Turbo Elantra, Turbo Genesis, Turbo Santa Fe, Turbo Sonata etc.

Don't even get me started on the Focus ST and Fiesta ST.

kingkilburn

The conditions cars have to survive in big sections of america are pretty rough. Nothing is going to survive deiced roads and the slush and mud that follows unless it was specifically designed to.

Now show me the rustproof Volvo or Dodge D series truck in your driveway or find another way to troll.

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kingkilburn

And I don't know if you realized this but Japan suffered a huge economic downturn starting in the late 80s that took out the automakers there as well as other major industries. The product wasn't the issue, the currency and economic environment was.

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Corbic

Are you fucking stupid?

Seriously.

Maybe you need to get out more. The Toyota frame rust issue is monstrous and unacceptable, even domestic trucks from the 70's hold (held) up better to the elements.

Spend some time on Google please.

Corbic

Mid 90's and I'm well aware. The green caught up with the economy and their exports skyrocketed in price.

As Drift Freaq eluded to, the JDMs existed fora long time before the surge in the 80'. The Koreans have seemly come out of now where. This just feels me they are hungry and innovative.

It also tells me VWOA is run by morons because after 60+ years they've not done what Hyundai did in 15 years.

kingkilburn

There you go mods. I try to be patient. I try not to talk shit or stir the pot.

Yet here we are again. Now show me how having a blue name trumps following the rules.

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Corbic

Just to recap. .

Kia is talking about a sub 2900lb rwd coupe with 300hp turbo...

While Nissan is talking about a 150hp, N/A CVT Paddle Shift RWD coupe.

Mmm yeah.

Some is spending too much time worrying about their home market with registration levels, displacement taxes and kei cars.

future

Well that was a good read since I've been gone. I agree that they can not do all the said with the car and price it as an FRS, it they did it would be amazing for people like us on these forums. The rest of the world, I don't think they would care as much

Also the car is hideous, the stats make it appealing. Not like the IDX, ugly and horrible stats

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VROOOM

if your the first owner the warranty is awesome, but a used Hyundai doesnt come with the 100k warranty.

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AFSil80

Yet calling someone a troll isn't talking shit? I said it earlier in the thread...get over yourself, dude.

You have to admit he's right...the rust prevention on Japanese cars has always been atrocious compared to domestic and european cars. Hell, even the S13 has it's common rust spots. Classic Z cars are a prime example. You'll still find pretty bad rust on Skylines being brought into Canada.

Now I know that every car goes through different scenarios, but having lived in one of those regions affected by road salt, I can tell you that domestic cars have a LOT longer lifespan.

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unwtdhero

Dont make kingkillburn dissappoint the mods, hes trying to be "nice"....

Anywho...the hyundai mehhhh.... The kia is the most appealing so far..

simmode1

The point of me posting it was just speculation as to how they might fit the Stinger into production without it stepping on the Genesis coupe's toes and taking away it's cross-shoppers.

The Genesis coupe is getting a bit long in the tooth and it's getting close to time for a new model. I think smoothing out some of the HND-9's hard lines in the nose and offering Hyundai's 3.8L V6 & 5.0L V8 will allow it to distance itself from shoppers interested in it's kid brother, the 2.0t Stinger.

They announced that they intend for the Stinger to rival the FRS without stealing sales from the GC. I don't understand how they expect that to happen if it's priced over $30k, as it's spec list suggests. But they have all the tools to price it inbetween the current 2.0t & V6 Genesis coupe at about ~$28k.

I'd speculate that a 350hp 3.8L V6 HND-9 could start at $34k, with the 430hp 5.0 V8 at $39k. The question is would a V6 HND-9 compete with the G37 coupe successor and would the V8 HND-9 compete with the new Mustang?

Corbic

Even at $28-31k the Stinger could easily rival the FRZ.

FRZ twins are $25-26k, you can surely net that any future tirbo versions will be over $30k. I've showed before that Subaru spaces performance cars by $7k. So $7k on a $25.5k car is $32.5k.

So with an extra 110hp, potentially nicer interior and more standard features, I see no reason the Stinger could not crush the FRZ with a $4k premium all else equal.

As for the GC, we'll have to see. I'd like the GC to become a Mustang rival.

350hp V6 for $27k, 450hp V8 for $37k should put it in line with the future Mustang pricing.

That leaves 26-30k for a more aggressively designed Turbo Stinger with 310hp.

Shit a 274hp GC coupe is only $24k right now. It's just a bit pudgy and I'm betting the 310 hp is just Kia having the balls to up the boost.

drift freaq

I am not going to respond to Corbic directly but to say in the words of Dan Gurney "Win races on Sunday sell cars on Monday".

Racing actually does count, for any company trying to prove its mettle selling Sports cars and Sports vehicles. The proof is even with the Koreans. Why else would Kia be in Pro Rally?

Like was said and you my be to young to realize this but its indeed true Japan has been in a 20 year plus recession they are just beginning to come out of. Rag all you want on the current GTR it is being campaigned in European racing series with some covert backing from NIssan. Nissan is also involved in Le Mans and does supply alongside Renault parts and tech for Redbull F1.

Oh and on your rust comment? Anywhere they salt roads to remove ice and snow you will see rust on cars regardless of the brand. There is a reason east coasters and people from the mid west look to buy California cars when they are collecting . Even your old Americans cars from those areas are rare now due to body rot from road salt. Unless they were garaged and not driven in winter.

Oh and by the way if your so high on Hyundai why don't you go buy a Genesis? Instead of buying an older ill handling Porsche and a 240sx and trolling the forum?

I made my statements about the Kia and why I feel its a concept only. I pointed out what the Koreans need to do to increase their product recognition and credibility.
It seems you not only can't accept that opinion, but actually want to drag it way off the main topic by spouting a bunch of anti Japanese car bullshit.

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simmode1

^^^On the racing point: I just find it odd that Kia would support an Optima in the Pirelli World challenge series before Hyundai would enter the Genesis coupe, even though they were running (essentially) the same engine.

I do agree though that it's doubtful that either the Stinger or HND-9 will live past the concept stage. I'm hopeful, but I won't hold my breath.
Probably. But they did add direct injection, too. So that might account for some of the bump. But since the engine is out of their Optima racecar, maybe it does have some other refinements too...

exitspeed

Like I said before Kia is the more youthful sporty brand between them. It's just how it is.

This is true. Being in Milwaukee I've bought both of my 240's down south because any of them up here are rusted to complete shit. And if you drive around here you'll see every single make and model rusted to shit. You'll also see plenty of old cars not rusted to shit that people actually took care of. But the salt doesn't discriminate.

And Dave, I do have to disagree with you about the Stinger not making it to production. Hyundai and Kia have very few concepts that don't make it to production or foreshadow a near future production car. I agree, they do not have the history the Japanese or Domestics do, but what they do have right now is a booming economy, the platform already developed, and BALLS. Something that we know the Japanese brands have been living without for a decade now.

As much as I want the iDX I actually have more faith that the Stinger will see production.

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240sxcure

From personal experience of living in a heavily road salted state, I think early domestics and imports are on par with each other.

I've seen everything from cavaliers to foxbody mustangs turn to dust. Honestly, if you leave any type of car unwashed in a rustbelt state, it will turn to powder. For every tacoma or tundra you post with a rust chassis, I could point out a jeep,ranger, blazer, bronco with similar problems.

Gnnr

True, but we are talking new cars here. A hard concept for many Zilvian's to grasp is that car manufacturers are not creating new cars with the used market in mind. They consider them two different areas. Which is why I'm tired of hearing people say oh why would I buy that new car for X amount if I can get get used Y for less and still have money for Z. Used is disregarded in the same way only new things count towards the GDP, so lets not bring it up.

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kingkilburn

I guess everyone glossed over my comment about Dodge D series trucks. Vehicles designed with rust prevention in mind do better than those that do not.

Give it another 10 years and you will not find an S chassis from areas that salt roads that is free of rust in areas none of us have the metal working skills to deal with. Hot Rod shops are gonna love out money when we are rebuilding structural areas of our cars.

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Corbic

I'll respond to you, cause I love you man. I'd buy you a beer even (on tap or house special).

Gurney may be right, to a point. He is also wrong, to a point today. Many hit cars have absolutely no racing roots and are not competitively raced in any well known field. Does the common Civic Si buyer even know what, if anything the Civic Si competes in?

Cool ad campaigns with Un Pimping Das Auto and Hamsters sell more cars than some amateur level SCCA Auto-X title.

So why isn't Mitsubishi and Subaru competing in WRC anymore?

I totally encourage you to research the Toyota Frame rust issues. We are not talking about classic cars from 40 years ago but trucks sold 6 years ago.

My entire point with it is that for the last 15 years the Japanese have sat on their laurels. They've secured their place in the sun and have been living off the reputation their fathers built for them in the 80's and 90's. The gap between an Accord and a Fusion is non-existant today, unlike a Honda Accord and a Taurus from the 90's.


We've been over this. I feel the Gen1 needs $15k to make it the car I'd want, and the Gen2 is hideous. I don't applaud Hyundai because it's a perfect car. I applaud them because they are doing something. Where is the 2+2 Turbo RWD Nissan, Honda, Mitsubishi, Toyota, Subaru? Where is the turbo Toyota and Nissan hatches and coupes? V8 RWD Full Size luxo-barges from Mitsubishi and Honda?

Look at how far Hyundai and Kia have gone since 2000 to 2013. Hell, just 2007 till today! I can't imagine how much more they will improve in the next 5-10 years.

You already know what you did there..

Do you even own a 240? (serious question / non-combative)


I accept your opinion. However, my comments about the Japanese Automakers, while dramatic, are fairly accurate. The FRZ is the first new JDM car I've been excited about in 10 years and it was a let down.

I get frustrated with this nonsense badge whoring that people do around here. Howling that it's stupid because it's a Kia is idiotic. Stating that "I'd rather have a JDM car that costs more and has 270hp instead of a 310hp Korean Car" is also stupid.

Korean Industry across the board is on a serious roll right now.

simmode1

Maybe it's just my imagination, but it seems like the more we talk about the IDX and the Stinger, the more support seems to be growing for them on this board. Which of course, just underscores the fact that many ppl are sheep and don't know what to think until the very vocal minority tells them...

kingkilburn

How long do we have to keep hearing about one stat for the FRS? It has no competition for the time being and no one buying one is going to be that hung up on that. There is an entire car beyond that number.

For all we know the Stinger is going to come with that engine and have a terrible setup beyond that and the FRS/BRZ is the clear better buy.


I grow weary of the negative fanboying about these cars. Everything sucks always.

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Gnnr

Its not that its unimportant, its that this board is SoCal heavy and well, I'm in Miami so we don't deal with snow...

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kingkilburn

I own a presmog D100 from North Dakota. There is almost zero rust on this thing and it was a heavily used work truck. I can't imagine any average vehicle from up there being in this condition.

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drift freaq

In answer to your question Corbic yes I still own the 240sx listed in my sig and I have owned way to many of them including my old 300 whp RB25 powered car among others. Some of which there are pics of in my profile.

Oh and if you are referring to my purchase of my M3? Well its an amazing handling factory built car that comes with just enough HP and torque to make it an extreme blast to drive inn pretty much damn near stock form.

Yes advertising campaigns can sell cars but none of the cars you pointed out where Sports cars. Sports cars are called Sports cars for a reason. Racing is synonymous with Sports cars. Build a Sports car make it race car.
When Hyundai does that successfully they will gain the respect they so badly need for the Genesis not before.
Whether you choose to accept that is on you but its pretty much a sports car marketing truth.

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1 88 U

I seriously doubt a boosted FRZ will add a $7k premium. I think their price is inflated as is due to a lack of competition. Toyota has been floating ideas for bigger displacement, i4, supercharger, turbo for a year now but none of that will see production until a competitor comes to market. And by competitor I don't mean superior hp numbers and close to weight, I'm talking about rave driving reviews.

AFSil80

The big thing about North Dakota is that they use sand on the roads, not salt. Only in the Minnesota border towns of Fargo/Moorhead and Grand Forks/East Grand Forks really gotta worry about road salt.

But yes, you're right, vehicles that are made with rust prevention in mind will fare better than the average vehicle, regardless of the condition.

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